EPTStudent Loan Forgiveness Act - Page 33
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Nightfall.589
Canada766 Posts
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
On April 19 2012 14:32 Nightfall.589 wrote: Believe it or not, 40K/year doesn't go as far as you may think it does, depending on where you live. In Vancouver, it'll barely cover rent, utilities, groceries, transit costs, and debt - and you can forget about vacations. Or car payments. It goes a lot farther than you think. In TORONTO - the most expensive city in Canada it is sufficient to manage a decent lifestyle. $40k translates into around around $31,200 annually after deductions for taxes (about 22% actual) That in turn is $2600 monthly to pay the bills. That certainly is not poverty. You might not be drinking premium wine and beer, but there will be meat and bread on the table, clean clothes on your back, and you will have an entertainment budget. I find it AMAZING that students cannot budget, and that their job expectations immediately out of univeristy are so high, and that their income expectations are often even higher. | ||
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Nightfall.589
Canada766 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On April 19 2012 14:14 Grimmyman123 wrote: The student receives a diploma or a degree. They can now in turn apply for employ in their CHOSEN field, which they qualify for. A great number of employers require ANY degree or diploma for a range of positions, which pay quite well. The diploma or degree doesnt say their grade on the front of it does it? I thought that was only reserved for Honors students etc. If a student makes poor decisions and choices, fails to apply themselves to obtain a quality education and cannot hold down employ because of their lack of a quality education, I further fail to see how that becomes the tax payers responsibility. I don't mean it quite so literally. Each diploma/degree as a piece of paper is more or less the same, but I mean a diploma/degree in the sense of it representing the sum of your college experience. When you apply for a job, you send in a resume and do an interview. There, you should show what you did-- what clubs were you in? Whats work experience? What relationships did you cultivate with teachers? What did you actually learn or do? Someone who has made use of their college experience will do better than someone who just got a degree because it was necessary to graduate. | ||
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FuGGu
United States176 Posts
On April 19 2012 10:05 sc2superfan101 wrote: you take out higher loans and you will pay more, sure, that's how the world works. kid? yep, that's me. just a tiny little youngin... edit: my father finished law school with ~$65,000 in student loans. the job he got with the DA afterwards started at ~$20,000, the job now starts at ~$60,000. say you go through law school with ~$200,000 of debt, you would be paying about the same amount compared to your income that my parents did. Really? So according to you there is no loan crisis? You think the loan situation in this country is the same? ... Let me answers this for you: there is a new loan crisis. Student debt is near 1 trillion in this country. While your father's law school debts were pricey back in the day, he is a lawyer, and he is blessed with a high paying job that can do that. Nowadays, people getting four year undergraduate degrees (who don't make as much as lawyers) are paying exorbitant amounts of moneys and aren't getting jobs that pay like lawyers. Some are making 40,000 dollars a year after college....if someone went to the generic large public institution in my state and had parents who couldn't help them afford it they would be 88,000 dollars in debt. That will take a long time to pay off with a 40,000 dollar year job. (That's assuming they get a job - unemployment has been pretty bad recently with tumbling economy, you know? Not like 15 years ago.) Do you understand? | ||
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Zalithian
520 Posts
On April 19 2012 15:06 FuGGu wrote: Really? So according to you there is no loan crisis? You think the loan situation in this country is the same? ... Let me answers this for you: there is a new loan crisis. Student debt is near 1 trillion in this country. While your father's law school debts were pricey back in the day, he is a lawyer, and he is blessed with a high paying job that can do that. Nowadays, people getting four year undergraduate degrees (who don't make as much as lawyers) are paying exorbitant amounts of moneys and aren't getting jobs that pay like lawyers. Some are making 40,000 dollars a year after college....if someone went to the generic large public institution in my state and had parents who couldn't help them afford it they would be 88,000 dollars in debt. That will take a long time to pay off with a 40,000 dollar year job. (That's assuming they get a job - unemployment has been pretty bad recently with tumbling economy, you know? Not like 15 years ago.) Do you understand? If I made 40,000 a year and 90k in debt it wouldn't be that bad. But it is bad if they have to work at Walmart. | ||
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
Furthermore, when I was a retail store manager, I did not hire anyone that did not have previous McDonalds or similar crappy food/retail employ on their resume. My staff all paid their way though university with cash, not one took a loan. One has to have a resume to build on to obtain better employment, and they need to be able to show they have learnt and are using those skills in a work environment, even if it is a minimum wage job. A resume with ones contact information, followed by education information, and little to no work experience will NOT secure an interview for higher level employment. | ||
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Zalithian
520 Posts
On April 19 2012 15:29 Grimmyman123 wrote: "Have to work at Walmart" and "Choose to work at Walmart" and two completely different things. Furthermore, when I was a retail store manager, I did not hire anyone that did not have previous McDonalds or similar crappy food/retail employ on their resume. My staff all paid their way though university with cash, not one took a loan. One has to have a resume to build on to obtain better employment, and they need to be able to show they have learnt and are using those skills in a work environment, even if it is a minimum wage job. A resume with ones contact information, followed by education information, and little to no work experience will NOT secure an interview for higher level employment. Work at walmart or don't eat and be homeless. Seems like there's not much of a choice there. | ||
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
On April 19 2012 15:32 Zalithian wrote: Work at walmart or don't eat and be homeless. Seems like there's not much of a choice there. Incorrect. There is a choice, just that one of the options is not very desirable. | ||
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Zalithian
520 Posts
On April 19 2012 15:33 Grimmyman123 wrote: Incorrect. There is a choice, just that one of the options is not very desirable. I didn't say there was not a choice. I said there was not much of one. Obviously if someone wants to survive, they'll probably have to take the job making between 4,000 and 12,000 a year. | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On April 19 2012 13:09 Leporello wrote: No. This thread is filled, filled, filled with personal anecdotes, ad nauseum. We have a trillion dollar debt in this country of student loans, and the people who hold this debt are having a hard time finding jobs. This is a unique and new situation, and I'm tired of hearing self-absorbed arguments that are based on personal experience. They don't mean anything. They strike at the "fairness" chord, and I don't care. No, of course it isn't fair that some people get help that others didn't,. But. So. What? So you keep socialising risks of bad decisions that others make... How is this going to ever lead to people actually making good decisions? I would rather have the government sweep the rug from under the banks by making student loans cleanly defaultable again, than creating more moral hazards such as these. You took out the loan you pay for it, it's as simple as that. If you can't, you put up collateral and take the hit for it. | ||
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yandere991
Australia394 Posts
I guess it's easy to tell other people to work harder and settle for shitter jobs when yourself only had to do decent in uni to secure a relevant job (back then if you couldn't land a relevant job you seriously fucked up and your own fault) whilst also paying peanuts for student loans compared to the mortgage sized ones today. | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On April 19 2012 15:49 yandere991 wrote: Got to love these people that got their jobs back when finding employment was easy mode telling new grads to suck it up. Most of them would sing a different tune if back in their day they had to compete with 5 year vets in a 4 round interview process + psychometrics straight out of uni. I'm in Uni right now telling people to suck it up. I guess it's easy to tell other people to work harder and settle for shitter jobs when yourself only had to do decent in uni to secure a relevant job (back then if you couldn't land a relevant job you seriously fucked up) whilst also paying peanuts for student loans compared to the mortgage sized ones today. What do you mean by relevant? Like relevant to one's field of study? That's not true. People 20 years ago would also sometimes not find jobs in their fields of study, and would take jobs in other fields. It wasn't such a huge issue back then because a smaller percentage of people actually went to college, now of course that so many people go to college you should naturally expect that finding a job is going to be difficult once you get out since you're competing against all the other college graduates. And since when do you automatically take a loan just because you go to college? You evaluate the job market, and how much a college education is going to be worth to you, look at the loan interest, and details, and make your decision. No one was forced to go into debt, everyone who got a college loan wanted one. | ||
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Zalithian
520 Posts
On April 19 2012 15:55 Kiarip wrote: I'm in Uni right now telling people to suck it up. What do you mean by relevant? Like relevant to one's field of study? That's not true. People 20 years ago would also sometimes not find jobs in their fields of study, and would take jobs in other fields. It wasn't such a huge issue back then because a smaller percentage of people actually went to college, now of course that so many people go to college you should naturally expect that finding a job is going to be difficult once you get out since you're competing against all the other college graduates. And since when do you automatically take a loan just because you go to college? You evaluate the job market, and how much a college education is going to be worth to you, look at the loan interest, and details, and make your decision. No one was forced to go into debt, everyone who got a college loan wanted one. It's true. Nobody has to go to college. They can spend the rest of their days working at Taco Bell. | ||
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yandere991
Australia394 Posts
What do you mean by relevant? Like relevant to one's field of study? That's not true. People 20 years ago would also sometimes not find jobs in their fields of study, and would take jobs in other fields. It wasn't such a huge issue back then because a smaller percentage of people actually went to college, now of course that so many people go to college you should naturally expect that finding a job is going to be difficult once you get out since you're competing against all the other college graduates. And since when do you automatically take a loan just because you go to college? You evaluate the job market, and how much a college education is going to be worth to you, look at the loan interest, and details, and make your decision. No one was forced to go into debt, everyone who got a college loan wanted one. I think that the people that got most screwed did analyze the market, got into their degree and the economy tanked destroying all their job prospects. Also if you couldn't find relevant work to your degree 20 years ago you generally fucked up and had no one to blame but yourself. You could finish your degree with a pass/credit average and rock up to a big4 firm for ONE interview and get a job as a graduate. Now good luck without a D average and ton of work experience and good ECs. If 20 years ago all it took to get into a big4 firm was one decent interview backed by average marks then I'm sorry but that is easymode. | ||
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emjaytron
Australia544 Posts
studying physiotherapy btw which is a fairly high demand occupation in this country. | ||
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Shasta37
United States70 Posts
Sucks to suck. Don't take a loan if you can't pay it. The whole reason the economy blows right now is because people are irresponsible. We shouldn't be enouraging that. | ||
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Zalithian
520 Posts
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Jisall
United States2054 Posts
On April 19 2012 16:03 emjaytron wrote: I love australia. I have about 45k (AUD) worth of student debt (which is just government low interest loan). Some of you US folks with your 200grand debts wow. studying physiotherapy btw which is a fairly high demand occupation in this country. 200k debts is the high end. At a state school i get 8k a year in tuition so in 4 years 32k. Not too bad. The 200k is private schools which are exspencive as all hell. 100k a year is what they charge. Physiotherapy. Is that like where you help people recover from debilitating accidents n shit? Edit: FUCK! I lost my marine.. I'mma have to pull an ode to probe on this shit. I think i've become addicted to stim... | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On April 19 2012 15:57 Zalithian wrote: It's true. Nobody has to go to college. They can spend the rest of their days working at Taco Bell. Yeah see... they can't happen because Taco Bell isn't gonna hire so many people. If less people were willing to go to college at these prices (thanks guaranteed loans,) then tuition would be cheaper, and then going to college would actually be more fiscally reasonable, both because it's cheaper and there wouldn't be as much competition. And honestly since when is there anything wrong with not going to college? Not only is education put on some unreasonably overrated pedestal, but going to College/University is not even the only way to become educated. Education is an asset... sure, but there are tons of other type of assets out there. Some are personal like education, or staying in good shape/health, or being social and being on good terms with tons of people. Others are material like buying some shares of a company... | ||
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