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Federal Direct Plus loans, which are the bulk of where most graduate students get their loans, charged a minimum of 6.7% interest this year for graduate students. Interest accumulates as soon as its dispersed, and payments being immediately after graduation.
Just sayin.
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On April 19 2012 12:08 kammeyer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 12:06 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 19 2012 12:03 kammeyer wrote:On April 19 2012 11:57 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 19 2012 11:47 DontJudgeEvery1 wrote:On April 19 2012 11:16 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 19 2012 10:55 DontJudgeEvery1 wrote:
I don't have a solution to this and have read alot of these responses. It's always easy for someone to respond to something in an ignorant matter when they can't relate to it... I can understand but cannot agree with anyone who compares today's student loan situation to his/her parents student loan situation during a time/age where the economy, job opportunities, and the country was in a financially better place. Not playing the race card, trying to get any sympathy however I'm just clueless as to what the solution is for my situation given everyone's responses. My wife and I are a young couple 2 beautiful daughters, and are well accomplished for our age however we've been stunted due to my wife's student loans. She's the first of her family to attend and graduate college, now an executive Chef at a famous fine dining restaurant (Formal dress code) at the age of 26. I'm a Network Engineer and make nearly double my wife's salary and most of the pressure has been on me to be the bread winner in order to have my family succeed. While we pay all of our debts now, exception of one of her student loans ~$80K and growing (after paying $11k in interest) and can't dent the principal, we have given up on that loan. We can't proceed on purchasing a home, with fear of the company coming back and placing a lean on any home we try to purchase, can't invest in a college plan for our children's future because we have to pay her other student loans (all private loans). She did receive scholarships as well however tuition was so high that they didn't cover 20% of her debt.
We've even resorted to moving in to her mom's basement to save money in order to take care of our student loan debts. I have to tell you as a man, this is not a comfortable situation however I swallow my pride for the sake of my wife and family. We've sought financial counseling, legal advice, and we have done extensive research online to the point where we can't touch this loan situation anymore. My wife's mother who took out the loan on her behalf knew nothing about the financial obligation her daughter would have after graduation however, despite that fact she's extremely proud of her b/c of how accomplished she is as am I. I know most situations aren't like ours however, I'm glad that there is SOMETHING on the table as a solution to private student loan debt. If you are trying to find a flaw in my story right about now please don't b/c it's all true. What are families like mine supposed to do in a situation like this? Please explain how this deal is better dead in the water than being passed? College tuition, lending institutions, and the higher education system as a whole are out of control and it's the next balloon to pop. With this plan on the table my wife and I are glad we've waited this out so far. We are regretful that we wasted $11k on this loan while not touching the principal.
This isn't a party affiliated issue (Dem, Rep, Lib, other...lol) it's a moral issue at this point about how this country's leaders plan on handling the next bailout. I don't think deep down many people disagree with this. It's an eventuality... I'm from a 3rd world country and have been pretty successful at working hard and I stand back and watch every other country (ie: china) understand the importance of education and impress that importance on the next generation and hold the current generation responsible. Too many things we take today as rights should be privileges. too many distractions, too many excuses, too much greed, not enough accountability, and simply not enough fairness. It's not until we end up like Iceland will we truly understand how to be humble. I don't live in a bubble or a Ron Paul world just can see the possibility of this country being great again if there were enough people that believed in it. why would you have two children when you cant financially support them? and why would you look for a mortgage when you cant afford the debts you already have? Even though my wife and I didn't plan on having children, we had our first daughter while still in college. Our second daughter is only 2 years of age and we did plan her birth. Both of our daughters are very well taken care of. While we did try to wait, and could've taken the abortion route, however we accepted our responsibilities and adjusted our lives and priorities. Because of her student loans, we've adjusted. We didn't put our lives on hold for 20+ years in hopes of paying off student loans before having kids. Life is our priority and even though we can try to plan things out there are times in which you have to adjust that plan. In the grand scheme of things we can pay the majority of our student loans and we do (on time at that). It's that one student loan which is out of control. As far as a mortgage is concerned again we're not putting our lives on hold. We can afford a mortgage and the additional responsibilities tied to owning a home. Given our track record are we not too entitled to providing a better living situation for our children? Do we at this point let our student loans take priority over our all of our futuristic planning? Back to the topic, this bill provides an opportunity for all. Isn't that one of this country's motto's "The land of opportunity". Why not support something like this. It will probably get amended however at least something is getting done to help out those in situation such as ours. im sorry, but your situation doesnt make me think that we should forgive student loans. quite the contrary. you have made some questionable financial decisions and it seems like you feel entitled to something you can never afford. as for the "land of opportunity" comment, that has to be a joke. because it is incredibly naive. this bill is dead in the water. it is a political stunt during an election year. it will go down the same route as the buffet rule. With Obama's constant consideration of already changing how federal loans are paid? I doubt it. the president doesnt pass legislation. republicans control congress. You realize there has already been one forgiveness act passed last year, right? lol. Instead of 10 years, it's 20 years.
are you referring to the Pay As You Earn plan?
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On April 19 2012 12:11 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 12:08 kammeyer wrote:On April 19 2012 12:06 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 19 2012 12:03 kammeyer wrote:On April 19 2012 11:57 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 19 2012 11:47 DontJudgeEvery1 wrote:On April 19 2012 11:16 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 19 2012 10:55 DontJudgeEvery1 wrote:
I don't have a solution to this and have read alot of these responses. It's always easy for someone to respond to something in an ignorant matter when they can't relate to it... I can understand but cannot agree with anyone who compares today's student loan situation to his/her parents student loan situation during a time/age where the economy, job opportunities, and the country was in a financially better place. Not playing the race card, trying to get any sympathy however I'm just clueless as to what the solution is for my situation given everyone's responses. My wife and I are a young couple 2 beautiful daughters, and are well accomplished for our age however we've been stunted due to my wife's student loans. She's the first of her family to attend and graduate college, now an executive Chef at a famous fine dining restaurant (Formal dress code) at the age of 26. I'm a Network Engineer and make nearly double my wife's salary and most of the pressure has been on me to be the bread winner in order to have my family succeed. While we pay all of our debts now, exception of one of her student loans ~$80K and growing (after paying $11k in interest) and can't dent the principal, we have given up on that loan. We can't proceed on purchasing a home, with fear of the company coming back and placing a lean on any home we try to purchase, can't invest in a college plan for our children's future because we have to pay her other student loans (all private loans). She did receive scholarships as well however tuition was so high that they didn't cover 20% of her debt.
We've even resorted to moving in to her mom's basement to save money in order to take care of our student loan debts. I have to tell you as a man, this is not a comfortable situation however I swallow my pride for the sake of my wife and family. We've sought financial counseling, legal advice, and we have done extensive research online to the point where we can't touch this loan situation anymore. My wife's mother who took out the loan on her behalf knew nothing about the financial obligation her daughter would have after graduation however, despite that fact she's extremely proud of her b/c of how accomplished she is as am I. I know most situations aren't like ours however, I'm glad that there is SOMETHING on the table as a solution to private student loan debt. If you are trying to find a flaw in my story right about now please don't b/c it's all true. What are families like mine supposed to do in a situation like this? Please explain how this deal is better dead in the water than being passed? College tuition, lending institutions, and the higher education system as a whole are out of control and it's the next balloon to pop. With this plan on the table my wife and I are glad we've waited this out so far. We are regretful that we wasted $11k on this loan while not touching the principal.
This isn't a party affiliated issue (Dem, Rep, Lib, other...lol) it's a moral issue at this point about how this country's leaders plan on handling the next bailout. I don't think deep down many people disagree with this. It's an eventuality... I'm from a 3rd world country and have been pretty successful at working hard and I stand back and watch every other country (ie: china) understand the importance of education and impress that importance on the next generation and hold the current generation responsible. Too many things we take today as rights should be privileges. too many distractions, too many excuses, too much greed, not enough accountability, and simply not enough fairness. It's not until we end up like Iceland will we truly understand how to be humble. I don't live in a bubble or a Ron Paul world just can see the possibility of this country being great again if there were enough people that believed in it. why would you have two children when you cant financially support them? and why would you look for a mortgage when you cant afford the debts you already have? Even though my wife and I didn't plan on having children, we had our first daughter while still in college. Our second daughter is only 2 years of age and we did plan her birth. Both of our daughters are very well taken care of. While we did try to wait, and could've taken the abortion route, however we accepted our responsibilities and adjusted our lives and priorities. Because of her student loans, we've adjusted. We didn't put our lives on hold for 20+ years in hopes of paying off student loans before having kids. Life is our priority and even though we can try to plan things out there are times in which you have to adjust that plan. In the grand scheme of things we can pay the majority of our student loans and we do (on time at that). It's that one student loan which is out of control. As far as a mortgage is concerned again we're not putting our lives on hold. We can afford a mortgage and the additional responsibilities tied to owning a home. Given our track record are we not too entitled to providing a better living situation for our children? Do we at this point let our student loans take priority over our all of our futuristic planning? Back to the topic, this bill provides an opportunity for all. Isn't that one of this country's motto's "The land of opportunity". Why not support something like this. It will probably get amended however at least something is getting done to help out those in situation such as ours. im sorry, but your situation doesnt make me think that we should forgive student loans. quite the contrary. you have made some questionable financial decisions and it seems like you feel entitled to something you can never afford. as for the "land of opportunity" comment, that has to be a joke. because it is incredibly naive. this bill is dead in the water. it is a political stunt during an election year. it will go down the same route as the buffet rule. With Obama's constant consideration of already changing how federal loans are paid? I doubt it. the president doesnt pass legislation. republicans control congress. You realize there has already been one forgiveness act passed last year, right? lol. Instead of 10 years, it's 20 years. are you referring to the Pay As You Earn plan?
I'm talking about the 15% of your discretionary income, 20 years and then it's wiped. 10 if you are eligible to work in a public service and consolidation of your federal loans.
I don't understand if you just don't see the big picture or you're purposely playing devil's advocate. These loans defaulting in the next 4-5 years isn't just going to effect the people who are in debt. It's going to be a much larger and substantial bubble burst than the housing mortgage crisis.
Did you not see how badly ravaged the economy was? Do you not recall banks getting bailed out and paying hefty bonuses to executives? I don't even give a shit if they don't forgive my debt. What I do care about is more affordable payment plans, instead of asking me to pay $1400 dollars a month over the span of 10-15 years, on a salary of $40K.
I'd be fucking 40 years old before I'd be able to afford a mortgage, a car, kids, a wife or even begin to have a savings account, lol.
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On April 19 2012 10:53 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 09:56 ticklishmusic wrote:
I disagree. Since the beginning of high school, I've been investing, saving and playing the stock market to save up money. I also worked hard in high school to get into a good school with scholarship. I hope to graduate more or less debt free. Med school, well, that's another issue. Either way, I'm working hard for this ish yo.
People should only pay for college if they need it for their future career. Forgiving debt dilutes that decision. Did you have to pay rent, utilities and work a full time job while on college? Good luck trying to avoid debt while doing all that. I'm an average Caucasian male with a 3.0 gpa in high school. I'm now 22 and struggling between working full time to make ends meet and take out a loan for school, or scrap school all together.
No, I don't. It's all bundled in with school, though I would prefer to pay separately. School overcharges for the meal plan and room and board. Room and board is about $3.5K/semester, and food is $2.5K. I could probably save around $5-10K a year if I didn't have to get those from the school and just rented a place with some friends and cooked for myself.
I'm Asian, and I had about a 3.9 in high school (1 B, 1 C, the rest A's).
My uni costs $55K a year. I have around ~$45K in combined scholarships, so I'm paying about $10K a year. I've got around $20K saved up, and I've got a summer job lined up that will pay about $4K (and hopefully the next 3 years will be similar). Costs do increase every year, but if I get a job during the year and the RA position (don't have to pay room and board) junior year and live off campus senior year, I should break about even.
I'll be broke for med school, but I'll see what I can do when I get closer- going to go crazy applying for grants and loans and stuff.
Am I super smart? No,not really. There are a lot of people here that are smarter than me that study less and do better, or just simply manage to do more than I can given the same amount of time. There were people smarter than me in my high school too. I didn't even work the hardest. I just grabbed opportunities better than others.
EDIT: j/k lost my summer job. 
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On April 19 2012 12:17 kammeyer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 12:11 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 19 2012 12:08 kammeyer wrote:On April 19 2012 12:06 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 19 2012 12:03 kammeyer wrote:On April 19 2012 11:57 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 19 2012 11:47 DontJudgeEvery1 wrote:On April 19 2012 11:16 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 19 2012 10:55 DontJudgeEvery1 wrote:
I don't have a solution to this and have read alot of these responses. It's always easy for someone to respond to something in an ignorant matter when they can't relate to it... I can understand but cannot agree with anyone who compares today's student loan situation to his/her parents student loan situation during a time/age where the economy, job opportunities, and the country was in a financially better place. Not playing the race card, trying to get any sympathy however I'm just clueless as to what the solution is for my situation given everyone's responses. My wife and I are a young couple 2 beautiful daughters, and are well accomplished for our age however we've been stunted due to my wife's student loans. She's the first of her family to attend and graduate college, now an executive Chef at a famous fine dining restaurant (Formal dress code) at the age of 26. I'm a Network Engineer and make nearly double my wife's salary and most of the pressure has been on me to be the bread winner in order to have my family succeed. While we pay all of our debts now, exception of one of her student loans ~$80K and growing (after paying $11k in interest) and can't dent the principal, we have given up on that loan. We can't proceed on purchasing a home, with fear of the company coming back and placing a lean on any home we try to purchase, can't invest in a college plan for our children's future because we have to pay her other student loans (all private loans). She did receive scholarships as well however tuition was so high that they didn't cover 20% of her debt.
We've even resorted to moving in to her mom's basement to save money in order to take care of our student loan debts. I have to tell you as a man, this is not a comfortable situation however I swallow my pride for the sake of my wife and family. We've sought financial counseling, legal advice, and we have done extensive research online to the point where we can't touch this loan situation anymore. My wife's mother who took out the loan on her behalf knew nothing about the financial obligation her daughter would have after graduation however, despite that fact she's extremely proud of her b/c of how accomplished she is as am I. I know most situations aren't like ours however, I'm glad that there is SOMETHING on the table as a solution to private student loan debt. If you are trying to find a flaw in my story right about now please don't b/c it's all true. What are families like mine supposed to do in a situation like this? Please explain how this deal is better dead in the water than being passed? College tuition, lending institutions, and the higher education system as a whole are out of control and it's the next balloon to pop. With this plan on the table my wife and I are glad we've waited this out so far. We are regretful that we wasted $11k on this loan while not touching the principal.
This isn't a party affiliated issue (Dem, Rep, Lib, other...lol) it's a moral issue at this point about how this country's leaders plan on handling the next bailout. I don't think deep down many people disagree with this. It's an eventuality... I'm from a 3rd world country and have been pretty successful at working hard and I stand back and watch every other country (ie: china) understand the importance of education and impress that importance on the next generation and hold the current generation responsible. Too many things we take today as rights should be privileges. too many distractions, too many excuses, too much greed, not enough accountability, and simply not enough fairness. It's not until we end up like Iceland will we truly understand how to be humble. I don't live in a bubble or a Ron Paul world just can see the possibility of this country being great again if there were enough people that believed in it. why would you have two children when you cant financially support them? and why would you look for a mortgage when you cant afford the debts you already have? Even though my wife and I didn't plan on having children, we had our first daughter while still in college. Our second daughter is only 2 years of age and we did plan her birth. Both of our daughters are very well taken care of. While we did try to wait, and could've taken the abortion route, however we accepted our responsibilities and adjusted our lives and priorities. Because of her student loans, we've adjusted. We didn't put our lives on hold for 20+ years in hopes of paying off student loans before having kids. Life is our priority and even though we can try to plan things out there are times in which you have to adjust that plan. In the grand scheme of things we can pay the majority of our student loans and we do (on time at that). It's that one student loan which is out of control. As far as a mortgage is concerned again we're not putting our lives on hold. We can afford a mortgage and the additional responsibilities tied to owning a home. Given our track record are we not too entitled to providing a better living situation for our children? Do we at this point let our student loans take priority over our all of our futuristic planning? Back to the topic, this bill provides an opportunity for all. Isn't that one of this country's motto's "The land of opportunity". Why not support something like this. It will probably get amended however at least something is getting done to help out those in situation such as ours. im sorry, but your situation doesnt make me think that we should forgive student loans. quite the contrary. you have made some questionable financial decisions and it seems like you feel entitled to something you can never afford. as for the "land of opportunity" comment, that has to be a joke. because it is incredibly naive. this bill is dead in the water. it is a political stunt during an election year. it will go down the same route as the buffet rule. With Obama's constant consideration of already changing how federal loans are paid? I doubt it. the president doesnt pass legislation. republicans control congress. You realize there has already been one forgiveness act passed last year, right? lol. Instead of 10 years, it's 20 years. are you referring to the Pay As You Earn plan? I'm talking about the 15% of your discretionary income, 20 years and then it's wiped. 10 if you are eligible to work in a public service and consolidation of your federal loans. I don't understand if you just don't see the big picture or you're purposely playing devil's advocate. These loans defaulting in the next 4-5 years isn't just going to effect the people who are in debt. It's going to be a much larger and substantial bubble burst than the housing mortgage crisis. Did you not see how badly ravaged the economy was? Do you not recall banks getting bailed out and paying hefty bonuses to executives? I don't even give a shit if they don't forgive my debt. What I do care about is more affordable payment plans, instead of asking me to pay $1400 dollars a month over the span of 10-15 years, on a salary of $40K. I'd be fucking 40 years old before I'd be able to afford a mortgage, a car, kids, a wife or even begin to have a savings account, lol.
what you are talking about, and what is discussed in the op are not even comparable. the michigan proposal is an atomic bomb compared to the prior scalpel approach, which itself was a modification of an even earlier approach.
http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/IBRPlan.jsp
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/college-finance/pay-as-you-earn-what-students-need-to-know.aspx
its not even really a forgiveness program for most people:
"Unless you have really low income, you'll end up paying the loan off before you'd ever have anything forgiven," says Orsolini. "If you have borrowed the maximum $27,000 (federal loan allowance) and if you make $24,500 (per year), you'll pay your loan off in less than 20 years."
your doomsday proposal does not change my opinion that the michigan approach is foolish. couldnt we say the same thing about mortgage debt? if the government doesn't buy out all of the mortgages that are underwater then the economy will tank when they default. or what about the small business loans. if the government doesn't buy out all the small business loans then the economy will tank when they default.
there are things the government can do without taking this huge amount of debt on itself.
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"If you have borrowed the maximum $27,000 (federal loan allowance) and if you make $24,500 (per year), you'll pay your loan off in less than 20 years."
27,000 dollars is not even close to the federal loan allowance. I have no idea where that number is taken from, but I have much more than 27K in federal loans as do many people I know of.
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And the reason it's a different approach is because FEDERAL loans aren't the problem.
Edit: anyway, I gotta head to sleep. Long day tomorrow.
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On April 19 2012 12:38 kammeyer wrote:
"If you have borrowed the maximum $27,000 (federal loan allowance) and if you make $24,500 (per year), you'll pay your loan off in less than 20 years."
27,000 dollars is not even close to the federal loan allowance. I have no idea where that number is taken from, but I have much more than 27K in federal loans as do many people I know of.
i quoted the source. if you think you are smarter than bankrate.com's sources then more power to you.
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Is this really financially responsible from the government's side?
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Maybe 27k is for undergrad? As a grad student, I can promise you 27k is not the limit. ....by a long shot.
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On April 19 2012 12:38 kammeyer wrote:
"If you have borrowed the maximum $27,000 (federal loan allowance) and if you make $24,500 (per year), you'll pay your loan off in less than 20 years."
27,000 dollars is not even close to the federal loan allowance. I have no idea where that number is taken from, but I have much more than 27K in federal loans as do many people I know of.
Not really sure what you're talking about here. I borrowed the maximum from the government every year I was in school, and totaling up all of my federal loans, it comes out to $25000k. After interest and such, I'll be paying roughly 30k after the 10 year repayment. I personally haven't heard of anyone going over the max or that there even was one, but unless you are going to school for more then 4 years I don't even think it's possible for you to be getting over the 27k noted in phreak's post unless you're getting aid for summer classes, in which case I can't say.
Here's the image direct from the federal loan site which lists maximum loan amounts by year:
![[image loading]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Tahkira/loans.jpg)
And source link: http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/studentloans.jsp
If you want to continue arguing after this...hopefully everyone will be wise enough not to respond
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On April 19 2012 06:32 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 06:05 KwarK wrote:On April 19 2012 05:26 FabledIntegral wrote:
The people without jobs are the ones that didn't work hard enough in college/university. Almost everyone that graduates top of their class gets jobs. You need to outperform your peers, you always have had to, it's just more drastic in this recession. Too many people have the mentality "C's get degrees." Now don't get me wrong, I don't think this is necessarily right, I just think a lot of people whining out there simply haven't put the effort in while still in school. I just want to make sure I am fulling understanding your point here before I criticise it. Your premise, if I'm reading it correctly, is that those who don't outperform their peers don't succeed and don't deserve to succeed and therefore shouldn't whine. Your solution is that everyone works harder, outperforms their peers, all get the most competitive jobs and then nobody whines. Sir, I can't help feeling like you overpaid for your education. Did you intentionally cut off the next sentence of my post in order to post that critique? If you want to read the very next sentence... Show nested quote +
The people without jobs are the ones that didn't work hard enough in college/university. Almost everyone that graduates top of their class gets jobs. You need to outperform your peers, you always have had to, it's just more drastic in this recession. Too many people have the mentality "C's get degrees." Now don't get me wrong, I don't think this is necessarily right, I just think a lot of people whining out there simply haven't put the effort in while still in school. Does this mean they necessarily deserve the debt? Absolutely not. But I haven't met a single person with a high GPA in my major/minor (business econ/accounting) that hasn't landed a solid job.
Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 06:31 Leporello wrote:
Okay, I'll say this one last time, and then excuse myself.
People arguing against Bills like the one in the OP seem personally, chip-on-the-shoulder offended.
No one is arguing, as far as I can see, what the actual negatives are of unburdening our youngest generation of some of this debt.
I don't care that you're 'a self-made man who pulled himself up by his own boot-straps, so how can these kids expect me to pay for their "mistakes", blah, blah, blah, blah.'
All sorts of things are unfair about modern society -- and no one is going to have to pay the bill more than the future generations. We are screwing them over economically, environmentally, and culturally. So I don't give a **** about you, your life, and your moral objections to what is a financial, country-wide issue. I don't care. I really don't.
We, as a culture, continue to place more and more emphasis on college, while racketing the tuition costs and handing out loans. Is this the fault of the students, or society as a whole? Well, the correct answer is it doesn't ****ing matter whose fault it is!!! It doesn't matter if it's a "handout" that you didn't receive. All that matters is what's best for our country's future. All I saw here was "I don't care if we fuck over the 25% that worked hard if it benefits the larger majority of 50% who didn't." What kind of argument is that? Arguably the worst argument I've seen in this entire thread (namely because it was filled with "I really don't fucking care" etc. etc.)
No.
This thread is filled, filled, filled with personal anecdotes, ad nauseum.
We have a trillion dollar debt in this country of student loans, and the people who hold this debt are having a hard time finding jobs.
This is a unique and new situation, and I'm tired of hearing self-absorbed arguments that are based on personal experience. They don't mean anything. They strike at the "fairness" chord, and I don't care. No, of course it isn't fair that some people get help that others didn't,.
But. So. What?
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On April 19 2012 13:07 Battleaxe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 12:38 kammeyer wrote:
"If you have borrowed the maximum $27,000 (federal loan allowance) and if you make $24,500 (per year), you'll pay your loan off in less than 20 years."
27,000 dollars is not even close to the federal loan allowance. I have no idea where that number is taken from, but I have much more than 27K in federal loans as do many people I know of. Not really sure what you're talking about here. I borrowed the maximum from the government every year I was in school, and totaling up all of my federal loans, it comes out to $25000k. After interest and such, I'll be paying roughly 30k after the 10 year repayment. I personally haven't heard of anyone going over the max or that there even was one, but unless you are going to school for more then 4 years I don't even think it's possible for you to be getting over the 27k noted in phreak's post unless you're getting aid for summer classes, in which case I can't say. Here's the image direct from the federal loan site which lists maximum loan amounts by year: And source link: http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/studentloans.jspIf you want to continue arguing after this...hopefully everyone will be wise enough not to respond
That is a pretty clear graph, but something with the context isn't right. I am personally aware that you can borrow much, much more than that. Maybe thats just for the stafford loans, and not including the direct plus loans?
Edit: personally aware, as in, i have borrowed more than that and it sucks balls
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On April 19 2012 13:09 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 06:32 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 19 2012 06:05 KwarK wrote:On April 19 2012 05:26 FabledIntegral wrote:
The people without jobs are the ones that didn't work hard enough in college/university. Almost everyone that graduates top of their class gets jobs. You need to outperform your peers, you always have had to, it's just more drastic in this recession. Too many people have the mentality "C's get degrees." Now don't get me wrong, I don't think this is necessarily right, I just think a lot of people whining out there simply haven't put the effort in while still in school. I just want to make sure I am fulling understanding your point here before I criticise it. Your premise, if I'm reading it correctly, is that those who don't outperform their peers don't succeed and don't deserve to succeed and therefore shouldn't whine. Your solution is that everyone works harder, outperforms their peers, all get the most competitive jobs and then nobody whines. Sir, I can't help feeling like you overpaid for your education. Did you intentionally cut off the next sentence of my post in order to post that critique? If you want to read the very next sentence...
The people without jobs are the ones that didn't work hard enough in college/university. Almost everyone that graduates top of their class gets jobs. You need to outperform your peers, you always have had to, it's just more drastic in this recession. Too many people have the mentality "C's get degrees." Now don't get me wrong, I don't think this is necessarily right, I just think a lot of people whining out there simply haven't put the effort in while still in school. Does this mean they necessarily deserve the debt? Absolutely not. But I haven't met a single person with a high GPA in my major/minor (business econ/accounting) that hasn't landed a solid job.
On April 19 2012 06:31 Leporello wrote:
Okay, I'll say this one last time, and then excuse myself.
People arguing against Bills like the one in the OP seem personally, chip-on-the-shoulder offended.
No one is arguing, as far as I can see, what the actual negatives are of unburdening our youngest generation of some of this debt.
I don't care that you're 'a self-made man who pulled himself up by his own boot-straps, so how can these kids expect me to pay for their "mistakes", blah, blah, blah, blah.'
All sorts of things are unfair about modern society -- and no one is going to have to pay the bill more than the future generations. We are screwing them over economically, environmentally, and culturally. So I don't give a **** about you, your life, and your moral objections to what is a financial, country-wide issue. I don't care. I really don't.
We, as a culture, continue to place more and more emphasis on college, while racketing the tuition costs and handing out loans. Is this the fault of the students, or society as a whole? Well, the correct answer is it doesn't ****ing matter whose fault it is!!! It doesn't matter if it's a "handout" that you didn't receive. All that matters is what's best for our country's future. All I saw here was "I don't care if we fuck over the 25% that worked hard if it benefits the larger majority of 50% who didn't." What kind of argument is that? Arguably the worst argument I've seen in this entire thread (namely because it was filled with "I really don't fucking care" etc. etc.) No. This thread is filled, filled, filled with personal anecdotes, ad nauseum. We have a trillion dollar debt in this country of student loans, and the people who hold this debt are having a hard time finding jobs. This is a unique and new situation, and I'm tired of hearing self-absorbed arguments that are based on personal experience. They don't mean anything. They strike at the "fairness" chord, and I don't care. No, of course it isn't fair that some people get help that others didn't,. But. So. What?
No, the difference is before, recruiters came to the students, and now students have to go to recruiters. That's the main difference. Oh, and of course there are plenty of less jobs. I never denied it. I just said it's not near at the panic rate that people are making it out to be. 3.4 GPA in engineering and can't get a single interview? You're doing something wrong.
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The plus loan your speaking of I'm assuming is the PLUS loan for parents, which since your parents would be cosigning for it, wouldn't really have a cap. Here's the info on maximum for a parent PLUS loan:
"How much can a parent borrow?
The annual limit on a PLUS Loan is equal to the student's cost of attendance minus any other financial aid the student receives.
For example, if the cost of attendance is $6,000 and the student receives $4,000 in other financial aid, the student's parent can request up to $2,000."
Source
edit: source link was broken
Now there's another type of PLUS loan for graduate and those seeking professional degrees, but this doesn't seem to have any bearing on the 27k figure that was mentioned earlier.
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On April 19 2012 13:11 mynameisgreat11 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 13:07 Battleaxe wrote:On April 19 2012 12:38 kammeyer wrote:
"If you have borrowed the maximum $27,000 (federal loan allowance) and if you make $24,500 (per year), you'll pay your loan off in less than 20 years."
27,000 dollars is not even close to the federal loan allowance. I have no idea where that number is taken from, but I have much more than 27K in federal loans as do many people I know of. Not really sure what you're talking about here. I borrowed the maximum from the government every year I was in school, and totaling up all of my federal loans, it comes out to $25000k. After interest and such, I'll be paying roughly 30k after the 10 year repayment. I personally haven't heard of anyone going over the max or that there even was one, but unless you are going to school for more then 4 years I don't even think it's possible for you to be getting over the 27k noted in phreak's post unless you're getting aid for summer classes, in which case I can't say. Here's the image direct from the federal loan site which lists maximum loan amounts by year: And source link: http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/studentloans.jspIf you want to continue arguing after this...hopefully everyone will be wise enough not to respond That is a pretty clear graph, but something with the context isn't right. I am personally aware that you can borrow much, much more than that. Maybe thats just for the stafford loans, and not including the direct plus loans? Edit: personally aware, as in, i have borrowed more than that and it sucks balls
State governments offer loans as well. Are you positive all of your loans are federal loans?
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On April 19 2012 13:15 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 13:09 Leporello wrote:On April 19 2012 06:32 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 19 2012 06:05 KwarK wrote:On April 19 2012 05:26 FabledIntegral wrote:
The people without jobs are the ones that didn't work hard enough in college/university. Almost everyone that graduates top of their class gets jobs. You need to outperform your peers, you always have had to, it's just more drastic in this recession. Too many people have the mentality "C's get degrees." Now don't get me wrong, I don't think this is necessarily right, I just think a lot of people whining out there simply haven't put the effort in while still in school. I just want to make sure I am fulling understanding your point here before I criticise it. Your premise, if I'm reading it correctly, is that those who don't outperform their peers don't succeed and don't deserve to succeed and therefore shouldn't whine. Your solution is that everyone works harder, outperforms their peers, all get the most competitive jobs and then nobody whines. Sir, I can't help feeling like you overpaid for your education. Did you intentionally cut off the next sentence of my post in order to post that critique? If you want to read the very next sentence...
The people without jobs are the ones that didn't work hard enough in college/university. Almost everyone that graduates top of their class gets jobs. You need to outperform your peers, you always have had to, it's just more drastic in this recession. Too many people have the mentality "C's get degrees." Now don't get me wrong, I don't think this is necessarily right, I just think a lot of people whining out there simply haven't put the effort in while still in school. Does this mean they necessarily deserve the debt? Absolutely not. But I haven't met a single person with a high GPA in my major/minor (business econ/accounting) that hasn't landed a solid job.
On April 19 2012 06:31 Leporello wrote:
Okay, I'll say this one last time, and then excuse myself.
People arguing against Bills like the one in the OP seem personally, chip-on-the-shoulder offended.
No one is arguing, as far as I can see, what the actual negatives are of unburdening our youngest generation of some of this debt.
I don't care that you're 'a self-made man who pulled himself up by his own boot-straps, so how can these kids expect me to pay for their "mistakes", blah, blah, blah, blah.'
All sorts of things are unfair about modern society -- and no one is going to have to pay the bill more than the future generations. We are screwing them over economically, environmentally, and culturally. So I don't give a **** about you, your life, and your moral objections to what is a financial, country-wide issue. I don't care. I really don't.
We, as a culture, continue to place more and more emphasis on college, while racketing the tuition costs and handing out loans. Is this the fault of the students, or society as a whole? Well, the correct answer is it doesn't ****ing matter whose fault it is!!! It doesn't matter if it's a "handout" that you didn't receive. All that matters is what's best for our country's future. All I saw here was "I don't care if we fuck over the 25% that worked hard if it benefits the larger majority of 50% who didn't." What kind of argument is that? Arguably the worst argument I've seen in this entire thread (namely because it was filled with "I really don't fucking care" etc. etc.) No. This thread is filled, filled, filled with personal anecdotes, ad nauseum. We have a trillion dollar debt in this country of student loans, and the people who hold this debt are having a hard time finding jobs. This is a unique and new situation, and I'm tired of hearing self-absorbed arguments that are based on personal experience. They don't mean anything. They strike at the "fairness" chord, and I don't care. No, of course it isn't fair that some people get help that others didn't,. But. So. What? No, the difference is before, recruiters came to the students, and now students have to go to recruiters. That's the main difference. Oh, and of course there are plenty of less jobs. I never denied it. I just said it's not near at the panic rate that people are making it out to be. 3.4 GPA in engineering and can't get a single interview? You're doing something wrong.
My thinking is, we pay more than a trillion dollars every year just to maintain our military.
We have a generation of kids that I see are completely disillusioned with society and the world at large. And perhaps rightly so.
To me, this is just taking a giant leap in a different direction, to wipe these loans off their plate. It's idealistic, and I agree it will never happen. But I do think it would be a beautiful thing -- even if it is completely "unfair". I just don't like that "fairness" argument when we're handing future generations all sorts of problems they never asked for anyways. They're going to pay for our mistakes --- maybe let's pay for one of theirs?
That is all.
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On April 19 2012 13:11 mynameisgreat11 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 13:07 Battleaxe wrote:On April 19 2012 12:38 kammeyer wrote:
"If you have borrowed the maximum $27,000 (federal loan allowance) and if you make $24,500 (per year), you'll pay your loan off in less than 20 years."
27,000 dollars is not even close to the federal loan allowance. I have no idea where that number is taken from, but I have much more than 27K in federal loans as do many people I know of. Not really sure what you're talking about here. I borrowed the maximum from the government every year I was in school, and totaling up all of my federal loans, it comes out to $25000k. After interest and such, I'll be paying roughly 30k after the 10 year repayment. I personally haven't heard of anyone going over the max or that there even was one, but unless you are going to school for more then 4 years I don't even think it's possible for you to be getting over the 27k noted in phreak's post unless you're getting aid for summer classes, in which case I can't say. Here's the image direct from the federal loan site which lists maximum loan amounts by year: And source link: http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/studentloans.jspIf you want to continue arguing after this...hopefully everyone will be wise enough not to respond That is a pretty clear graph, but something with the context isn't right. I am personally aware that you can borrow much, much more than that. Maybe thats just for the stafford loans, and not including the direct plus loans? Edit: personally aware, as in, i have borrowed more than that and it sucks balls
Um, independent students sure can!
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On April 19 2012 13:18 Battleaxe wrote:The plus loan your speaking of I'm assuming is the PLUS loan for parents, which since your parents would be cosigning for it, wouldn't really have a cap. Here's the info on maximum for a parent PLUS loan: "How much can a parent borrow? The annual limit on a PLUS Loan is equal to the student's cost of attendance minus any other financial aid the student receives. For example, if the cost of attendance is $6,000 and the student receives $4,000 in other financial aid, the student's parent can request up to $2,000." Sourceedit: source link was broken Now there's another type of PLUS loan for graduate and those seeking professional degrees, but this doesn't seem to have any bearing on the 27k figure that was mentioned earlier.
Plus loans don't need a parent cosigner if you're a graduate student. And your interest rates are almost double for the same loan for undergraduates.
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On April 19 2012 13:18 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 13:11 mynameisgreat11 wrote:On April 19 2012 13:07 Battleaxe wrote:On April 19 2012 12:38 kammeyer wrote:
"If you have borrowed the maximum $27,000 (federal loan allowance) and if you make $24,500 (per year), you'll pay your loan off in less than 20 years."
27,000 dollars is not even close to the federal loan allowance. I have no idea where that number is taken from, but I have much more than 27K in federal loans as do many people I know of. Not really sure what you're talking about here. I borrowed the maximum from the government every year I was in school, and totaling up all of my federal loans, it comes out to $25000k. After interest and such, I'll be paying roughly 30k after the 10 year repayment. I personally haven't heard of anyone going over the max or that there even was one, but unless you are going to school for more then 4 years I don't even think it's possible for you to be getting over the 27k noted in phreak's post unless you're getting aid for summer classes, in which case I can't say. Here's the image direct from the federal loan site which lists maximum loan amounts by year: And source link: http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/studentloans.jspIf you want to continue arguing after this...hopefully everyone will be wise enough not to respond That is a pretty clear graph, but something with the context isn't right. I am personally aware that you can borrow much, much more than that. Maybe thats just for the stafford loans, and not including the direct plus loans? Edit: personally aware, as in, i have borrowed more than that and it sucks balls State governments offer loans as well. Are you positive all of your loans are federal loans?
Lol. Yes, I am positive my loans are from the feds.
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EPT
