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In order for this topic to stay open, keep in mind the following: - Understand the difference between sex and gender- Please be respectful to those involved, particularly the transgendered - If you post without reason, or do not add to the discussion, you will be met with moderator action - If you don't know which pronoun is appropriate please feel free to read the topic and inform yourself before posting. We're all for debate but this is a sensitive subject for many people. |
On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face.
This raises the question. Are people born male/female mentally, or is that a part of growing up?
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On April 03 2012 18:14 scatmango2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 17:59 Praetorial wrote:On April 03 2012 17:50 scatmango2 wrote:
He was not born a female.
He lied about it on the entrance form.
The rules state you must be born a female.
This is an open and shut case...
I stand by the organizations ruling of disqualification 100%. It has nothing to do with being bigoted as Kwark the moderator cited as being the reason for closing the previous thread. ITS ABOUT FOLLOWING THE RULES PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Hi. One of my best friends is transgender. Not only does your referring to the competitor as "he" offend me, but that you claim that you are not a bigot is nothing short of absurd. Transgender people identify as the other gender. They regard themselves AS that gender. If they are young, they can take hormone pills to switch gender. This is not a surgical procedure. In my friend's case, she gained all the aspects of a female body. Surgery is used to help ease the transition and correct several non-cosmetic things. So, you're a bigot, and are blindly following a Donald Trump ruling. Is this a joke? Did I say your friend and other trans gender individuals don't have the right to exist or restrict any rights from them? NO. He was born a male and nothing he ever does will say other wise. He may consider himself a female, but he is still born a male. You're just incredibly ignorant I can't even begin to comprehend it. The rules are the rules herpa derpa. If I claimed I was a female and only identified myself as such then by your definition I could partake in the event?
This is my definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test
"Looks".
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On April 03 2012 18:16 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. This raises the question. Are people born male/female mentally, or is that a part of growing up?
I don't know about others, but my friend began to display female tendencies at about age 5. (Then, gender in the past) His parents tried to suppress it, but after high school, he began independent treatment.
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On April 03 2012 18:16 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. This raises the question. Are people born male/female mentally, or is that a part of growing up?
I'm almost positive its a mental thing. In documentaries I've seen about transgendered people, they had a hard time identifying what they were even as children.
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Dunno why you guys get worked up. She was a dude, so no contest. If you want to be politically correct I suggest you talk to a very good psychologist about trans gender people and see what's up.
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On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. Why wouldn't I?
You and he can both claim that "female" denotes what a person thinks of himself as. That's a very recent notion, and one which many still disagree with. As far as I'm concerned, your (and his) attempt to get others to use the language and pronouns that you prefer is a bullying attempt to push your own agenda.
We agree about the facts here: he (or "she", if you prefer) was born a man, thought of himself ("herself") as a woman since a young age, and has undergone procedures to make himself ("herself") phenotypically similar to a woman. The question of whether this actually makes him a woman is mainly a question of semantics/categorization. You believe that he should be placed in the same category as people who were born as women. I think that he should be placed in the same category as men. Clearly, he's got some similarities to and some differences from "typical" examples of each category, so what makes your categorization more valid than mine?
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On April 03 2012 18:14 scatmango2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 17:59 Praetorial wrote:On April 03 2012 17:50 scatmango2 wrote:
He was not born a female.
He lied about it on the entrance form.
The rules state you must be born a female.
This is an open and shut case...
I stand by the organizations ruling of disqualification 100%. It has nothing to do with being bigoted as Kwark the moderator cited as being the reason for closing the previous thread. ITS ABOUT FOLLOWING THE RULES PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Hi. One of my best friends is transgender. Not only does your referring to the competitor as "he" offend me, but that you claim that you are not a bigot is nothing short of absurd. Transgender people identify as the other gender. They regard themselves AS that gender. If they are young, they can take hormone pills to switch gender. This is not a surgical procedure. In my friend's case, she gained all the aspects of a female body. Surgery is used to help ease the transition and correct several non-cosmetic things. So, you're a bigot, and are blindly following a Donald Trump ruling. Is this a joke? Did I say your friend and other trans gender individuals don't have the right to exist or restrict any rights from them? NO. He was born a male and nothing he ever does will say other wise. He may consider himself a female, but he is still born a male. You're just incredibly ignorant I can't even begin to comprehend it. The rules are the rules herpa derpa. If I claimed I was a female and only identified myself as such then by your definition I could partake in the event?
Also, what rules are you referring to on gender. Not the tournament rules, because they hardly define whether someone is male or female.
Again, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test
As mentioned in several articles, she has met the gender recognition requirements for being female in Canada.
Rule enough for me.
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On April 03 2012 18:10 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:09 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:08 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Are trannies ever the other way around? I hear a lot of man into woman but...
If not, I think maybe there's a cause of some sort... Of course there is... was this a serious question? Well, I'd never heard of it. It either gets a lot less attention, or is significantly less common.
well, its kinda easy here - transmen (aka female to male, short ftm) are alot less visibly. if you see a transwoman, you can in most cases see that something looks "off", the same doesn't count for transmen. for example, transwomen most often still grow a beard, while transmen quickly start growing one. let alone that doesn't even give you the idea that the guy with the 5pm-shade could have XX-chromosomes.
also yeah, it does get alot less attention, for some reason.
I'm no expert on all that, I'm learning though. my boyfriend is a ftm, means a male born as female. before him, I only ever met two transwomen (both close friends of me). so yeah, it DOES get alot more attention (while it really shouldn't :/ )
On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him.
erm, no, she's actually no man, she's a woman who had her body fitting her mind or soul if you wanna use that word. not her fault for being born male, is it? bet she didn't choose it.
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On April 03 2012 18:20 bOneSeven wrote:
Dunno why you guys get worked up. She was a dude, so no contest. If you want to be politically correct I suggest you talk to a very good psychologist about trans gender people and see what's up.
One more bigot.
Transgender people are not, ARE NOT, people who switch because it is cool or fun. It is a highly painful process, and is only done when a person truly identifies with the other gender.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test
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On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her.
Can I choose to be a woman too, yet not get the surgery and just go around calling myself a woman and getting female advantages like money for college and other things?
How much surgery is required for you to be considered a woman? How much estrogen taken? The idea that you're a woman born in a man's body or vice versa is silly, because your body defines your gender. there's no special metaphysical component to a person that makes them male or female beyond the body.
Everyone should watch Little Big Man. I have a feeling the idea of surgery to change genders is due to the sexist viewpoints of societies saying "men cant behave like X" and "women cant behave like Y", therefore, you must be a woman if you want to behave like Y, and the only way to be accepted is to have surgery.
he isn't a real woman, the same way a cross dresser isn't a real woman. There's no way to measure or test a person's claim that they are "really a wo/man trapped in a wrong gendered body".
On April 03 2012 18:24 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:20 bOneSeven wrote:
Dunno why you guys get worked up. She was a dude, so no contest. If you want to be politically correct I suggest you talk to a very good psychologist about trans gender people and see what's up. One more bigot. Transgender people are not, ARE NOT, people who switch because it is cool or fun. It is a highly painful process, and is only done when a person truly identifies with the other gender. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test
Are you saying people can't put themselves through a lot of pain because of deeper underlying issues, or because of wrongful thinking? Look at people who believe in certain things since the dark ages, and have put themselves and others through harsh pains, even death, for those beliefs, that we can now look back on and say how stupid they were. How about teens who commit suicide because they are short sighted and not thinking clearly? People will willingly put themselves through a lot of pain and agony, especially if in doing so they believe they are avoiding a worse pain.
There are so many people who commit to lifestyles that are self destructive and detrimental, because they don't believe there can be any other way.
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On April 03 2012 18:15 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. She's a woman in all but biological birth, respect her choices. Jeez some people. I'm not sure you get this, but transgender people in general identify as the gender they became. It not like "hurr durr I want to have boobs". If you think it is, you're wrong. I respect his choice to change what he looks like, and to refer to himself as female if he likes. I have a different view on what constitutes "male" and what constitutes "female", and I think I'm as entitled to my view as you and him.
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On April 03 2012 18:21 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. Why wouldn't I? You and he can both claim that "female" denotes what a person thinks of himself as. That's a very recent notion, and one which many still disagree with. As far as I'm concerned, your (and his) attempt to get others to use the language and pronouns that you prefer is a bullying attempt to push your own agenda. We agree about the facts here: he (or "she", if you prefer) was born a man, thought of himself ("herself") as a woman since a young age, and has undergone procedures to make himself ("herself") phenotypically similar to a woman. The question of whether this actually makes him a woman is mainly a question of semantics/categorization. You believe that he should be placed in the same category as people who were born as women. I think that he should be placed in the same category as men. Clearly, he's got some similarities to and some differences from "typical" examples of each category, so what makes your categorization more valid than mine?
"she has met the gender recognition requirements for being female in Canada."
She identifies her self as a woman, has since she was a child, has had re-constructive surgery, and has gone through hormone therapy treatment.
She's female.
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On April 03 2012 18:24 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. Can I choose to be a woman too, yet not get the surgery and just go around calling myself a woman and getting female advantages like money for college and other things? How much surgery is required for you to be considered a woman? How much estrogen taken? The idea that you're a woman born in a man's body or vice versa is silly, because your body defines your gender. there's no special metaphysical component to a person that makes them male or female beyond the body. Everyone should watch Little Big Man. I have a feeling the idea of surgery to change genders is due to the sexist viewpoints of societies saying "men cant behave like X" and "women cant behave like Y", therefore, you must be a woman if you want to behave like Y, and the only way to be accepted is to have surgery. he isn't a real woman, the same way a cross dresser isn't a real woman. There's no way to measure or test a person's claim that they are "really a wo/man trapped in a wrong gendered body".
How about you actually back up your claim of saying its impossible to be born the wrong gender instead of just SAYING it?
I've seen countless documentaries / shows on trans-gendered people saying the EXACT opposite of what you're claiming.
I think I'll believe psychologist / scientist over you until you can actually back up your claim.
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On April 03 2012 18:25 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:21 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. Why wouldn't I? You and he can both claim that "female" denotes what a person thinks of himself as. That's a very recent notion, and one which many still disagree with. As far as I'm concerned, your (and his) attempt to get others to use the language and pronouns that you prefer is a bullying attempt to push your own agenda. We agree about the facts here: he (or "she", if you prefer) was born a man, thought of himself ("herself") as a woman since a young age, and has undergone procedures to make himself ("herself") phenotypically similar to a woman. The question of whether this actually makes him a woman is mainly a question of semantics/categorization. You believe that he should be placed in the same category as people who were born as women. I think that he should be placed in the same category as men. Clearly, he's got some similarities to and some differences from "typical" examples of each category, so what makes your categorization more valid than mine? "she has met the gender recognition requirements for being female in Canada." She identifies her self as a woman, has since she was a child, has had re-constructive surgery, and has gone through hormone therapy treatment. She's female.
when she kills someone, the DNA evidence will have them looking for a man. What do you think of that?
On April 03 2012 18:28 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:24 Spieltor wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. Can I choose to be a woman too, yet not get the surgery and just go around calling myself a woman and getting female advantages like money for college and other things? How much surgery is required for you to be considered a woman? How much estrogen taken? The idea that you're a woman born in a man's body or vice versa is silly, because your body defines your gender. there's no special metaphysical component to a person that makes them male or female beyond the body. Everyone should watch Little Big Man. I have a feeling the idea of surgery to change genders is due to the sexist viewpoints of societies saying "men cant behave like X" and "women cant behave like Y", therefore, you must be a woman if you want to behave like Y, and the only way to be accepted is to have surgery. he isn't a real woman, the same way a cross dresser isn't a real woman. There's no way to measure or test a person's claim that they are "really a wo/man trapped in a wrong gendered body". How about you actually back up your claim of saying its impossible to be born the wrong gender instead of just SAYING it? I've seen countless documentaries / shows on trans-gendered people saying the EXACT opposite of what you're claiming. I think I'll believe psychologist / scientist over you until you can actually back up your claim.
I actually don't believe you because that'd be a poor scientist who proves something which can't be proven. You're talking about your "soul" being male or female, and souls don't exist.
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On April 03 2012 18:29 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:25 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:21 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. Why wouldn't I? You and he can both claim that "female" denotes what a person thinks of himself as. That's a very recent notion, and one which many still disagree with. As far as I'm concerned, your (and his) attempt to get others to use the language and pronouns that you prefer is a bullying attempt to push your own agenda. We agree about the facts here: he (or "she", if you prefer) was born a man, thought of himself ("herself") as a woman since a young age, and has undergone procedures to make himself ("herself") phenotypically similar to a woman. The question of whether this actually makes him a woman is mainly a question of semantics/categorization. You believe that he should be placed in the same category as people who were born as women. I think that he should be placed in the same category as men. Clearly, he's got some similarities to and some differences from "typical" examples of each category, so what makes your categorization more valid than mine? "she has met the gender recognition requirements for being female in Canada." She identifies her self as a woman, has since she was a child, has had re-constructive surgery, and has gone through hormone therapy treatment. She's female. when she kills someone, the DNA evidence will have them looking for a man. What do you think of that?
Nothing because her DNA is male? This statement has no meaning what so ever.
Since you asked directly what I think
I think "Duh".
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On April 03 2012 18:30 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:29 Spieltor wrote:On April 03 2012 18:25 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:21 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. Why wouldn't I? You and he can both claim that "female" denotes what a person thinks of himself as. That's a very recent notion, and one which many still disagree with. As far as I'm concerned, your (and his) attempt to get others to use the language and pronouns that you prefer is a bullying attempt to push your own agenda. We agree about the facts here: he (or "she", if you prefer) was born a man, thought of himself ("herself") as a woman since a young age, and has undergone procedures to make himself ("herself") phenotypically similar to a woman. The question of whether this actually makes him a woman is mainly a question of semantics/categorization. You believe that he should be placed in the same category as people who were born as women. I think that he should be placed in the same category as men. Clearly, he's got some similarities to and some differences from "typical" examples of each category, so what makes your categorization more valid than mine? "she has met the gender recognition requirements for being female in Canada." She identifies her self as a woman, has since she was a child, has had re-constructive surgery, and has gone through hormone therapy treatment. She's female. when she kills someone, the DNA evidence will have them looking for a man. What do you think of that? Nothing because her DNA is male? This statement has no meaning what so ever.
its important brah because she looks like a female police will be all confused !
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On April 03 2012 18:30 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:29 Spieltor wrote:On April 03 2012 18:25 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:21 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. Why wouldn't I? You and he can both claim that "female" denotes what a person thinks of himself as. That's a very recent notion, and one which many still disagree with. As far as I'm concerned, your (and his) attempt to get others to use the language and pronouns that you prefer is a bullying attempt to push your own agenda. We agree about the facts here: he (or "she", if you prefer) was born a man, thought of himself ("herself") as a woman since a young age, and has undergone procedures to make himself ("herself") phenotypically similar to a woman. The question of whether this actually makes him a woman is mainly a question of semantics/categorization. You believe that he should be placed in the same category as people who were born as women. I think that he should be placed in the same category as men. Clearly, he's got some similarities to and some differences from "typical" examples of each category, so what makes your categorization more valid than mine? "she has met the gender recognition requirements for being female in Canada." She identifies her self as a woman, has since she was a child, has had re-constructive surgery, and has gone through hormone therapy treatment. She's female. when she kills someone, the DNA evidence will have them looking for a man. What do you think of that? Nothing because her DNA is male? This statement has no meaning what so ever.
Ok, how about the lack of butt sway that accompanies female pelvises? How about the number of ribs? How about the fact that her face looks like its been stretched on (as is the case with all transgender post ops)? It's not really hard to spot a post surgery man.
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On April 03 2012 18:25 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:21 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. Why wouldn't I? You and he can both claim that "female" denotes what a person thinks of himself as. That's a very recent notion, and one which many still disagree with. As far as I'm concerned, your (and his) attempt to get others to use the language and pronouns that you prefer is a bullying attempt to push your own agenda. We agree about the facts here: he (or "she", if you prefer) was born a man, thought of himself ("herself") as a woman since a young age, and has undergone procedures to make himself ("herself") phenotypically similar to a woman. The question of whether this actually makes him a woman is mainly a question of semantics/categorization. You believe that he should be placed in the same category as people who were born as women. I think that he should be placed in the same category as men. Clearly, he's got some similarities to and some differences from "typical" examples of each category, so what makes your categorization more valid than mine? "she has met the gender recognition requirements for being female in Canada." She identifies her self as a woman, has since she was a child, has had re-constructive surgery, and has gone through hormone therapy treatment. She's female.
She doesn't have a womb, has never had a period and every single cell in her body is male. C'mon, it's not 1/10th as simple as you claim. The idea of the "duck test" is ridiculous - something which looks and sounds like a duck because it didn't feel comfortable as a swan and thus had surgery is very different from a "natural" duck.
It simply comes down to whether you're willing to respect someone wanting to be called something which doesn't really make logical sense. I'll do that, but I understand why people have issues with it.
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On April 03 2012 18:29 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:25 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:21 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. Why wouldn't I? You and he can both claim that "female" denotes what a person thinks of himself as. That's a very recent notion, and one which many still disagree with. As far as I'm concerned, your (and his) attempt to get others to use the language and pronouns that you prefer is a bullying attempt to push your own agenda. We agree about the facts here: he (or "she", if you prefer) was born a man, thought of himself ("herself") as a woman since a young age, and has undergone procedures to make himself ("herself") phenotypically similar to a woman. The question of whether this actually makes him a woman is mainly a question of semantics/categorization. You believe that he should be placed in the same category as people who were born as women. I think that he should be placed in the same category as men. Clearly, he's got some similarities to and some differences from "typical" examples of each category, so what makes your categorization more valid than mine? "she has met the gender recognition requirements for being female in Canada." She identifies her self as a woman, has since she was a child, has had re-constructive surgery, and has gone through hormone therapy treatment. She's female. when she kills someone, the DNA evidence will have them looking for a man. What do you think of that? Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:28 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:24 Spieltor wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. Can I choose to be a woman too, yet not get the surgery and just go around calling myself a woman and getting female advantages like money for college and other things? How much surgery is required for you to be considered a woman? How much estrogen taken? The idea that you're a woman born in a man's body or vice versa is silly, because your body defines your gender. there's no special metaphysical component to a person that makes them male or female beyond the body. Everyone should watch Little Big Man. I have a feeling the idea of surgery to change genders is due to the sexist viewpoints of societies saying "men cant behave like X" and "women cant behave like Y", therefore, you must be a woman if you want to behave like Y, and the only way to be accepted is to have surgery. he isn't a real woman, the same way a cross dresser isn't a real woman. There's no way to measure or test a person's claim that they are "really a wo/man trapped in a wrong gendered body". How about you actually back up your claim of saying its impossible to be born the wrong gender instead of just SAYING it? I've seen countless documentaries / shows on trans-gendered people saying the EXACT opposite of what you're claiming. I think I'll believe psychologist / scientist over you until you can actually back up your claim. I actually don't believe you because that'd be a poor scientist who proves something which can't be proven. You're talking about your "soul" being male or female, and souls don't exist.
That's a non-issue. Why would we take into account murder for something so obviously not?
Souls exist. They are a person's mentality, personality. I call them souls. And they can be changed by the person, though not consciously.
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On April 03 2012 18:16 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. This raises the question. Are people born male/female mentally, or is that a part of growing up?
People aren't born male or female mentally. Kids before reaching puberty have no sexuality, that is, they are just boys and girls, physically only. At least that is what i learnt from a psychologist talking in a morning talk show.
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EPT
