EPTShooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 234
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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. | ||
Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
No, Sweden deferentially had a mandatory armed service until 1995. That was real thing, I wasn't remember things incorrectly. | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:18 Defacer wrote: I had a morbid thought, but I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon had a licensed, concealed gun. We'd probably be following a trial about a young black man trying to convince people he was defending himself against an armed man that was following him, but turned out just to be the average Neighborhood Watch man. No, because as we've explained, it's not obvious if someone is armed. If Martin shot Zimmerman with no provocation, that's just a straightforward murder. Being followed is not provocation worth shooting over. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:28 Millitron wrote: No, because as we've explained, it's not obvious if someone is armed. If Martin shot Zimmerman with no provocation, that's just a straightforward murder. Being followed is not provocation worth shooting over. Imagine though it was a similar situation as this case, where we have no information about the beginning of the altercation or how it started, and all you had was dead Zimmerman with his gun on the ground (assuming he drew it to defend himself). And you don't have Zimmerman's POV, because he's dead. I guess the burden would be on Trayvon to prove that he felt his life was in danger in that situation. He'd probably still go to prison, because it's not like he called the cops or made a serious effort to escape the danger, etc. | ||
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[Agony]x90
United States853 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:18 Defacer wrote: I had a morbid thought, but I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon had a licensed, concealed gun. We'd probably be following a trial about a young black man trying to convince people he was defending himself against an armed man that was following him, but turned out just to be the average Neighborhood Watch man. I hear you man. I hate the fact we have teenagers breaking into houses stealing shit. Too bad theres no group out there to help against that. | ||
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GorbadTheGreat
22 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:10 Plansix wrote: It's also an error of judgement to hide in the bushes and jump somebody and then try to beat him within an inch of his life. Some judgement has to be allowed for 17-year-olds as well as adults. I know I wouldn't have done that when I was 17.It couldn't have hurt to idenify himself, that is for sure. It was an error in judgment not to. | ||
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GorbadTheGreat
22 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:18 Defacer wrote: No, we wouldn't be following any trial. Black shot Latino isn't quite the same as Latino shot black.I had a morbid thought, but I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon had a licensed, concealed gun. We'd probably be following a trial about a young black man trying to convince people he was defending himself against an armed man that was following him, but turned out just to be the average Neighborhood Watch man. | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:33 Defacer wrote: Imagine though it was a similar situation as this case, where we have no information about the beginning of the altercation or how it started, and all you had was dead Zimmerman with his gun on the ground (assuming he drew it to defend himself). And you don't have Zimmerman's POV, because he's dead. I guess the burden would be on Trayvon to prove that he felt his life was in danger in that situation. He'd probably still go to prison, because it's not like he called the cops or made a serious effort to escape the danger, etc. I'll ignore the fact that Martin was too young to have a concealed carry permit, since this is all hypothetical anyways. Ok, so both guns drawn, Zimmerman dead on the ground. I think it'd rely on the phone calls, both to Martin's girlfriend, and to the Police. I suspect Martin would get manslaughter and the bare minimum sentence, unless there was some irrefutable evidence Zimmerman drew first. We DO have Zimmerman's perspective though, at least as far as the police dispatcher recorded. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:27 Plansix wrote: No, Sweden deferentially had a mandatory armed service until 1995. That was real thing, I wasn't remember things incorrectly. But the keeping your guns at home is Switzerland I think. I have yet to see a Swedish home with anything more than a hunting rifle. | ||
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ConGee
318 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:38 GorbadTheGreat wrote: It's also an error of judgement to hide in the bushes and jump somebody and then try to beat him within an inch of his life. Some judgement has to be allowed for 17-year-olds as well as adults. I know I wouldn't have done that when I was 17. That's assuming what Zimmerman said was true. This part of his story is a pretty big "if". | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:52 Ghostcom wrote: But the keeping your guns at home is Switzerland I think. I have yet to see a Swedish home with anything more than a hunting rifle. My grandfather is very old, they could have gotten rid of that policy at any time in the last 60 years. Or he could have been lying to me the entire time, but I think its more likely they phased it out after the Cold War. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:54 ConGee wrote: That's assuming what Zimmerman said was true. This part of his story is a pretty big "if". That part sounds like the biggest pile of bullshit Zimmerman is spinning. I don't think he should go to jail, but I also don't believe that he was jumped by Trayvon either. I am sure they both behaved very stupidly and it ended in the result we have today. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:55 Plansix wrote: My grandfather is very old, they could have gotten rid of that policy at any time in the last 60 years. Or he could have been lying to me the entire time, but I think its more likely they phased it out after the Cold War. Well let us wait and see if a Swede climbs out of the woodwork  The wiki for Switzerlands gun policy just alludes to Switzerland being unique. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On July 02 2013 09:28 Defacer wrote: No. It would be a tragedy, but not the fault of Zimmerman. As it is, that pretty much how I feel about the case as it played out. It's a tragedy that Trayvon died, but not the fault of Zimmerman. So, choosing between the two, I would prefer what happened, because a completely innocent homeowner dying is worse than Trayvon under the scenario that Trayvon at least physically attacked Zimmerman leading to his death. A homeowner would have done absolutely nothing to bring on their victimization. | ||
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Chylo
United States220 Posts
It was really funny laughing at those people's posts a few months ago, but now they would look just like a lynch mob. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On July 02 2013 11:15 Chylo wrote: Lol, did the mods delete all the posts in the first many pages of this thread calling for Zimmerman's head? It was really funny laughing at those people's posts a few months ago, but now they would look just like a lynch mob. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322664 i just realized greenhorizons is the original OP | ||
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
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Chylo
United States220 Posts
On July 02 2013 11:16 dAPhREAk wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322664 i just realized greenhorizons is the original OP Oh ok, there they are. Haha, wow. It is incredible the punishments people will dole out to others that they know nothing about. | ||
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Chylo
United States220 Posts
Thank God the Rule of Law prevails over the mob. Mob psychology is so interesting. | ||
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ConGee
318 Posts
On July 02 2013 11:18 Chylo wrote: Oh ok, there they are. Haha, wow. It is incredible the punishments people will dole out to others that they know nothing about. To be fair, that was when there were more or less no facts about the case and the media reporting that it was absolutely a race crime. Some of the replies in retrospect are quite scary just to the extent of what the media could possibly get the masses to believe. | ||
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