• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:25
CEST 20:25
KST 03:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy9[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 238Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Announcement RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 4/4 BSL Season 23 screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague
Tourneys
[IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27! [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague [ASL22] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Diablo IV Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8655 users

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 234

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 232 233 234 235 236 503 Next
This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 01:25:41
July 02 2013 01:25 GMT
#4661
Edit: ninja'd by farva
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 01:29:51
July 02 2013 01:27 GMT
#4662
On July 02 2013 10:21 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 10:20 Plansix wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:06 Defacer wrote:

Now I'm imagining a society where everyone carries a gun. Everyone is very cordial and polite to strangers but they walk around with their butts so tightly clenched you can hear them opening and closing.

There are a couple countries were everyone has an assault rifle. I think Sweden had rules like that until at some point until 1995 when they switch to a volunteer service force. I remember my relatives joking they had a really low break in rate. But then again, they all had formal training as well.

That would be Switzerland

No, Sweden deferentially had a mandatory armed service until 1995. That was real thing, I wasn't remember things incorrectly.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
July 02 2013 01:28 GMT
#4663
On July 02 2013 10:18 Defacer wrote:
I had a morbid thought, but I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon had a licensed, concealed gun.

We'd probably be following a trial about a young black man trying to convince people he was defending himself against an armed man that was following him, but turned out just to be the average Neighborhood Watch man.

No, because as we've explained, it's not obvious if someone is armed. If Martin shot Zimmerman with no provocation, that's just a straightforward murder. Being followed is not provocation worth shooting over.
Who called in the fleet?
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
July 02 2013 01:33 GMT
#4664
On July 02 2013 10:28 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 10:18 Defacer wrote:
I had a morbid thought, but I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon had a licensed, concealed gun.

We'd probably be following a trial about a young black man trying to convince people he was defending himself against an armed man that was following him, but turned out just to be the average Neighborhood Watch man.

No, because as we've explained, it's not obvious if someone is armed. If Martin shot Zimmerman with no provocation, that's just a straightforward murder. Being followed is not provocation worth shooting over.


Imagine though it was a similar situation as this case, where we have no information about the beginning of the altercation or how it started, and all you had was dead Zimmerman with his gun on the ground (assuming he drew it to defend himself). And you don't have Zimmerman's POV, because he's dead.

I guess the burden would be on Trayvon to prove that he felt his life was in danger in that situation. He'd probably still go to prison, because it's not like he called the cops or made a serious effort to escape the danger, etc.
[Agony]x90
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States853 Posts
July 02 2013 01:34 GMT
#4665
On July 02 2013 10:18 Defacer wrote:
I had a morbid thought, but I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon had a licensed, concealed gun.

We'd probably be following a trial about a young black man trying to convince people he was defending himself against an armed man that was following him, but turned out just to be the average Neighborhood Watch man.


I hear you man. I hate the fact we have teenagers breaking into houses stealing shit. Too bad theres no group out there to help against that.
JF dodger since 2009
GorbadTheGreat
Profile Joined July 2013
22 Posts
July 02 2013 01:38 GMT
#4666
On July 02 2013 10:10 Plansix wrote:
It couldn't have hurt to idenify himself, that is for sure. It was an error in judgment not to.
It's also an error of judgement to hide in the bushes and jump somebody and then try to beat him within an inch of his life. Some judgement has to be allowed for 17-year-olds as well as adults. I know I wouldn't have done that when I was 17.
GorbadTheGreat
Profile Joined July 2013
22 Posts
July 02 2013 01:41 GMT
#4667
On July 02 2013 10:18 Defacer wrote:
I had a morbid thought, but I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon had a licensed, concealed gun.

We'd probably be following a trial about a young black man trying to convince people he was defending himself against an armed man that was following him, but turned out just to be the average Neighborhood Watch man.
No, we wouldn't be following any trial. Black shot Latino isn't quite the same as Latino shot black.
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 01:44:51
July 02 2013 01:43 GMT
#4668
On July 02 2013 10:33 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 10:28 Millitron wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:18 Defacer wrote:
I had a morbid thought, but I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon had a licensed, concealed gun.

We'd probably be following a trial about a young black man trying to convince people he was defending himself against an armed man that was following him, but turned out just to be the average Neighborhood Watch man.

No, because as we've explained, it's not obvious if someone is armed. If Martin shot Zimmerman with no provocation, that's just a straightforward murder. Being followed is not provocation worth shooting over.


Imagine though it was a similar situation as this case, where we have no information about the beginning of the altercation or how it started, and all you had was dead Zimmerman with his gun on the ground (assuming he drew it to defend himself). And you don't have Zimmerman's POV, because he's dead.

I guess the burden would be on Trayvon to prove that he felt his life was in danger in that situation. He'd probably still go to prison, because it's not like he called the cops or made a serious effort to escape the danger, etc.

I'll ignore the fact that Martin was too young to have a concealed carry permit, since this is all hypothetical anyways.
Ok, so both guns drawn, Zimmerman dead on the ground.

I think it'd rely on the phone calls, both to Martin's girlfriend, and to the Police.

I suspect Martin would get manslaughter and the bare minimum sentence, unless there was some irrefutable evidence Zimmerman drew first. We DO have Zimmerman's perspective though, at least as far as the police dispatcher recorded.
Who called in the fleet?
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
July 02 2013 01:52 GMT
#4669
On July 02 2013 10:27 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 10:21 farvacola wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:20 Plansix wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:06 Defacer wrote:

Now I'm imagining a society where everyone carries a gun. Everyone is very cordial and polite to strangers but they walk around with their butts so tightly clenched you can hear them opening and closing.

There are a couple countries were everyone has an assault rifle. I think Sweden had rules like that until at some point until 1995 when they switch to a volunteer service force. I remember my relatives joking they had a really low break in rate. But then again, they all had formal training as well.

That would be Switzerland

No, Sweden deferentially had a mandatory armed service until 1995. That was real thing, I wasn't remember things incorrectly.


But the keeping your guns at home is Switzerland I think. I have yet to see a Swedish home with anything more than a hunting rifle.
ConGee
Profile Joined May 2012
318 Posts
July 02 2013 01:54 GMT
#4670
On July 02 2013 10:38 GorbadTheGreat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 10:10 Plansix wrote:
It couldn't have hurt to idenify himself, that is for sure. It was an error in judgment not to.
It's also an error of judgement to hide in the bushes and jump somebody and then try to beat him within an inch of his life. Some judgement has to be allowed for 17-year-olds as well as adults. I know I wouldn't have done that when I was 17.


That's assuming what Zimmerman said was true. This part of his story is a pretty big "if".
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 02 2013 01:55 GMT
#4671
On July 02 2013 10:52 Ghostcom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 10:27 Plansix wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:21 farvacola wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:20 Plansix wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:06 Defacer wrote:

Now I'm imagining a society where everyone carries a gun. Everyone is very cordial and polite to strangers but they walk around with their butts so tightly clenched you can hear them opening and closing.

There are a couple countries were everyone has an assault rifle. I think Sweden had rules like that until at some point until 1995 when they switch to a volunteer service force. I remember my relatives joking they had a really low break in rate. But then again, they all had formal training as well.

That would be Switzerland

No, Sweden deferentially had a mandatory armed service until 1995. That was real thing, I wasn't remember things incorrectly.


But the keeping your guns at home is Switzerland I think. I have yet to see a Swedish home with anything more than a hunting rifle.

My grandfather is very old, they could have gotten rid of that policy at any time in the last 60 years. Or he could have been lying to me the entire time, but I think its more likely they phased it out after the Cold War.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 02 2013 01:59 GMT
#4672
On July 02 2013 10:54 ConGee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 10:38 GorbadTheGreat wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:10 Plansix wrote:
It couldn't have hurt to idenify himself, that is for sure. It was an error in judgment not to.
It's also an error of judgement to hide in the bushes and jump somebody and then try to beat him within an inch of his life. Some judgement has to be allowed for 17-year-olds as well as adults. I know I wouldn't have done that when I was 17.


That's assuming what Zimmerman said was true. This part of his story is a pretty big "if".

That part sounds like the biggest pile of bullshit Zimmerman is spinning. I don't think he should go to jail, but I also don't believe that he was jumped by Trayvon either. I am sure they both behaved very stupidly and it ended in the result we have today.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
July 02 2013 02:01 GMT
#4673
On July 02 2013 10:55 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 10:52 Ghostcom wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:27 Plansix wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:21 farvacola wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:20 Plansix wrote:
On July 02 2013 10:06 Defacer wrote:

Now I'm imagining a society where everyone carries a gun. Everyone is very cordial and polite to strangers but they walk around with their butts so tightly clenched you can hear them opening and closing.

There are a couple countries were everyone has an assault rifle. I think Sweden had rules like that until at some point until 1995 when they switch to a volunteer service force. I remember my relatives joking they had a really low break in rate. But then again, they all had formal training as well.

That would be Switzerland

No, Sweden deferentially had a mandatory armed service until 1995. That was real thing, I wasn't remember things incorrectly.


But the keeping your guns at home is Switzerland I think. I have yet to see a Swedish home with anything more than a hunting rifle.

My grandfather is very old, they could have gotten rid of that policy at any time in the last 60 years. Or he could have been lying to me the entire time, but I think its more likely they phased it out after the Cold War.


Well let us wait and see if a Swede climbs out of the woodwork

The wiki for Switzerlands gun policy just alludes to Switzerland being unique.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
July 02 2013 02:08 GMT
#4674
On July 02 2013 09:28 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 08:10 Kaitlin wrote:
To anyone of you who feel it was morally wrong for GZ to keep an eye on where Trayvon had gone, if GZ had stopped tracking where Trayvon went, and he found out the next day that one of his neighbors had experienced a home invasion and they had been killed, would that affect your analysis of what GZ did ?


No. It would be a tragedy, but not the fault of Zimmerman.


As it is, that pretty much how I feel about the case as it played out. It's a tragedy that Trayvon died, but not the fault of Zimmerman. So, choosing between the two, I would prefer what happened, because a completely innocent homeowner dying is worse than Trayvon under the scenario that Trayvon at least physically attacked Zimmerman leading to his death. A homeowner would have done absolutely nothing to bring on their victimization.
Chylo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States220 Posts
July 02 2013 02:15 GMT
#4675
Lol, did the mods delete all the posts in the first many pages of this thread calling for Zimmerman's head?

It was really funny laughing at those people's posts a few months ago, but now they would look just like a lynch mob.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 02 2013 02:16 GMT
#4676
On July 02 2013 11:15 Chylo wrote:
Lol, did the mods delete all the posts in the first many pages of this thread calling for Zimmerman's head?

It was really funny laughing at those people's posts a few months ago, but now they would look just like a lynch mob.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322664

i just realized greenhorizons is the original OP
FallDownMarigold
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3710 Posts
July 02 2013 02:18 GMT
#4677
Calling it now- Zims gets convicted of manslaughter even though it ends up appearing he should get off completely free
Chylo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States220 Posts
July 02 2013 02:18 GMT
#4678
On July 02 2013 11:16 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 11:15 Chylo wrote:
Lol, did the mods delete all the posts in the first many pages of this thread calling for Zimmerman's head?

It was really funny laughing at those people's posts a few months ago, but now they would look just like a lynch mob.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322664

i just realized greenhorizons is the original OP


Oh ok, there they are. Haha, wow. It is incredible the punishments people will dole out to others that they know nothing about.
Chylo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States220 Posts
July 02 2013 02:21 GMT
#4679
This is a fascinating example of why the justice system was created and it does show one proof of why America is a great place.

Thank God the Rule of Law prevails over the mob.

Mob psychology is so interesting.
ConGee
Profile Joined May 2012
318 Posts
July 02 2013 02:22 GMT
#4680
On July 02 2013 11:18 Chylo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 11:16 dAPhREAk wrote:
On July 02 2013 11:15 Chylo wrote:
Lol, did the mods delete all the posts in the first many pages of this thread calling for Zimmerman's head?

It was really funny laughing at those people's posts a few months ago, but now they would look just like a lynch mob.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322664

i just realized greenhorizons is the original OP


Oh ok, there they are. Haha, wow. It is incredible the punishments people will dole out to others that they know nothing about.


To be fair, that was when there were more or less no facts about the case and the media reporting that it was absolutely a race crime. Some of the replies in retrospect are quite scary just to the extent of what the media could possibly get the masses to believe.
Prev 1 232 233 234 235 236 503 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
16:00
10 Year Group B Replay Cast
TaKeTV 373
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
MindelVK 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24368
Mini 499
ggaemo 173
Dewaltoss 143
soO 44
HiyA 28
Dota 2
qojqva3050
Fuzer 173
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu383
Other Games
summit1g5517
Liquid`RaSZi1902
Beastyqt792
B2W.Neo469
ceh9437
byalli340
XBOCT249
Hui .188
KnowMe130
C9.Mang0126
ArmadaUGS100
QueenE75
Mew2King56
Trikslyr46
Chillindude12
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 303
StarCraft 2
angryscii 12
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile175
• StrangeGG 18
• Reevou 13
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 13
• HerbMon 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4658
League of Legends
• TFBlade615
Other Games
• Shiphtur308
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
14h 35m
WardiTV Invitational
16h 35m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 9h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 15h
GSL
2 days
Yamato Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.