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On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:[quote] I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. [quote] Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://www.livresdeguerre.net/telechar/contribs/17945co.jpg) Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards.
Ok now you bring Mitterand back. Should I bring back De Gaulle because he almost killed my mother during mai 68 ? Dead people are better left alone.
Also it's very funny to see your talk about poor people, aren't you in a prépa ? Is that your definition of poor ? Be reminded that people who elected Hollande were mostly living in the cities, the rural world voted for Sarkosy and needless to say most of them are uneducated and xenophobic. In the suburds, Hollande has more than 60%, among workers even more. Don't try to pass yourself off as the defenders of the poor, you aren't and Sarkosy certainly wasn't too.
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On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:[quote] I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. [quote] Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards.
You're full of shit, I'm so glad you lost :D
I don't care how people use their money, i only care about how they use our money. What are you trying to say here ? That taking private jets is bad ? Sarkozy did it too, but he did it with our money to sell weapons to dictators.
I didn't vote. I don't like hollande, i don't like sarkozy, but i'd rather have hollande than the racist one.
Eat it, loser :D
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On May 07 2012 23:25 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 23:16 Oshuy wrote:On May 07 2012 21:38 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 21:32 Oshuy wrote:On May 07 2012 21:08 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 20:59 Oshuy wrote:On May 07 2012 20:38 Macpo wrote:
About Marine le pen being racist, you just have to change "race" by "culture" which fulfills the same function in the argumentation, and you have it. it's the same word, because in the end, it's all about identity and alterity: we don't accept the other in the community, because we feel it threatens our own identity and being. That is nationalism, not racism. It is more a matter of debating wether there is such a thing as a nation's culture and if so, should it change to adapt to newcomers or should the newcomers adapt to fit in. I agree M. Le Pen is actively defending that yes France has its culture and yes newcomers should learn to speak french, stop washing and gobble up frogs before they are accepted. Racist statements are illegal in France, but nationalist views are a classical conservative stance. They can be debated, but I fail to see that they should be outright rejected. Well to a certain extent, it is precisely because racist statements are illegal that right and far right parties tend to be racist indirectly, instead of doing it openly. But this, though, doesn't prevent racist outbursts. Should I remind you that Brice Hortefeux was found guilty of racism. He is not even far right supposedly. He was just a member of the UMP goverment in office at the time... Now you're blaming them of being racist because they do not make racist statements, but you believe there are racist beliefs hidden somewhere behind it all the same ? And what is the link between the fine payed by some random politician and the views of a party he's not even a member of ? That just makes no sense. Yes I am just saying that racism is more often suggested than openly claimed. Is that so complicated? What is weird is the reasoning you make of it: - racism is more often suggested than claimed - they do not claim racism - therefore they are racist What I get is that you consider the FN has been racist since its creation and will therefore remain so forever, even if its claims change. Do you expect the socialist party to nationalize the french industry ?
On May 07 2012 23:25 Macpo wrote:You seem to assume that they use to be racist, but aren't anymore. I think this is an illusion.
Exactly. This is your belief.
On May 07 2012 23:25 Macpo wrote:What I say is that they can't be so openly blatantly racists, despite the fact that they'd really like to; and that in private, they are much more openly and freely racists
This is defamation unless it is backed up.
On May 07 2012 23:25 Macpo wrote:as a consequence, they make more moderate claims in the public space, claims which are more strategic than sincere in their very relative "moderation"; and overall remain very racist
This is a logical consequence of beliefs you do not back up by facts, but it is close to conspirationist behavior 
My guess is that there is probably a higher percentage of people I would label as racist in the FN than in the other parties, although not by a large margin. I believe, based on the information I am fed by the media, that there is a much higher percentage in their opinion leaders than in the global population that I would label racist if I were to meet them face to face.
However, I think a party becomes over time what it claims to be. I don't see a segmentation between official and underground statements surviving generations.
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On May 08 2012 00:35 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:[quote] Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards. Ok now you bring Mitterand back. Should I bring back De Gaulle because he almost killed my mother during mai 68 ? Dead people are better left alone. Also it's very funny to see your talk about poor people, aren't you in a prépa ? Is that your definition of poor ? Be reminded that people who elected Hollande were mostly living in the cities, the rural world voted for Sarkosy and needless to say most of them are uneducated and xenophobic. In the suburds, Hollande has more than 60%, among workers even more. Don't try to pass yourself off as the defenders of the poor, you aren't and Sarkosy certainly wasn't too.
You're the only one talking about me here. Let's leave it at that.
You can bring back anyone you'd like, I hold everyone at the same standards.
If you just want to talk about Hollande, he's the guy that regularly eats at "Le Laurent" with his good friends BHL, Mathieu Pigasse and Pierre Bergé. You know that "Le Laurent" has prices twice as high as "Le Fouquet's" ? You also know who Pigasse and Bergé are ?
Double standards ?
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Russian Federation748 Posts
Also it's very funny to see your talk about poor people, aren't you in a prépa ? Is that your definition of poor ?
What point are you trying to make ? Studies in classes préparatoires are far from excluding poor students, in fact it's notorious they're almost gratuitous.
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On May 08 2012 00:39 Nyarly wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:[quote] Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards. You're full of shit, I'm so glad you lost :D I don't care how people use their money, i only care about how they use our money. What are you trying to say here ? That taking private jets is bad ? Sarkozy did it too, but he did it with our money to sell weapons to dictators. I didn't vote. I don't like hollande, i don't like sarkozy, but i'd rather have hollande than the racist one. Eat it, loser :D
Lol, manners please ^^
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On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:[quote] I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. [quote] Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards.
How is it double standards when politicians from across the board (PS, UMP and others) get criticized when they have money? Remember DSK? Do you think nobody ever mentioned his money before May of last year? How about when he got photographed next to a Porsche that wasn't even his? Again, stop trying to play the victim card.
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On May 08 2012 00:51 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:[quote] Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards. How is it double standards when politicians from across the board (PS, UMP and others) get criticized when they have money? Remember DSK? Do you think nobody ever mentioned his money before May of last year? How about when he got photographed next to a Porsche that wasn't even his? Again, stop trying to play the victim card.
They're not criticized equally. Everyone jumped on Sarkozy to blame him for the Fouquet's, and now media are turning a blind eye on Hollande when he does the same thing.
Double standards
By the way, Sarkozy got photographed on a boat that wasn't even his... Hilarious.
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On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:
Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ...
It's about the symbol. I'm sure you understand.
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On May 08 2012 00:55 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:
Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... It's about the symbol. I'm sure you understand.
Yeah taking a private jet when you said you'd be a "normal man" that takes the train is quite a symbol, I agree.
Eating at Le Laurent with business men friends that funded his campaign is also a symbol.
I do understand.
btw I have nothing against politicians taking private jets, I just find it amusing when they used demagogic arguments like "I'll take the train unlike Sarkozy who takes jets" during the campaign to get elected.
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On May 08 2012 00:54 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:51 kwizach wrote:On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards. How is it double standards when politicians from across the board (PS, UMP and others) get criticized when they have money? Remember DSK? Do you think nobody ever mentioned his money before May of last year? How about when he got photographed next to a Porsche that wasn't even his? Again, stop trying to play the victim card. They're not criticized equally. Everyone jumped on Sarkozy to blame him for the Fouquet's, and now media are turning a blind eye on Hollande when he does the same thing. Double standards
Doing the same thing would have been going to the Fouquet's the night of the election. He didn't, he went to meet the people who had voted for him.
Again, people from the left with money have also been criticized for their money (which is an accusation I personally consider ridiculous for everyone, whether from the left or the right). This by definition means there is no such double standard. Stop trying.
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On May 08 2012 00:45 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:35 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards. Ok now you bring Mitterand back. Should I bring back De Gaulle because he almost killed my mother during mai 68 ? Dead people are better left alone. Also it's very funny to see your talk about poor people, aren't you in a prépa ? Is that your definition of poor ? Be reminded that people who elected Hollande were mostly living in the cities, the rural world voted for Sarkosy and needless to say most of them are uneducated and xenophobic. In the suburds, Hollande has more than 60%, among workers even more. Don't try to pass yourself off as the defenders of the poor, you aren't and Sarkosy certainly wasn't too. You're the only one talking about me here. Let's leave it at that. You can bring back anyone you'd like, I hold everyone at the same standards. If you just want to talk about Hollande, he's the guy that regularly eats at "Le Laurent" with his good friends BHL, Mathieu Pigasse and Pierre Bergé. You know that "Le Laurent" has prices twice as high as "Le Fouquet's" ? You also know who Pigasse and Bergé are ? Double standards ?
You are a true master of misrepresentation. I didn't for for Hollande because Sarkosy was a bling-bling gangsta, so I don't see the point in arguing with you. I expressed my point of view on the Fouquet's vs. Air Travel dichotomy, I explained why it isn't a matter of money or friends and you keep bringing money and friends up. That part of the topic should be closed by now.
On May 08 2012 00:54 Geiko wrote:They're not criticized equally. Everyone jumped on Sarkozy to blame him for the Fouquet's, and now media are turning a blind eye on Hollande when he does the same thing. Double standards By the way, Sarkozy got photographed on a boat that wasn't even his... Hilarious.
Hollande was named Flamby, and you say they weren't criticized equally ? Please, let's stay serious, while it's true that Hollande and Sarkosy aren't criticized on the same subjects, anyone with the ability to formulate critics could see both of them were criticized equivalently (notion of equity).
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On May 08 2012 00:58 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:54 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:51 kwizach wrote:On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:
[quote]
And how it is related to what we are discussing ?
What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:
[quote]
Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance.
Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards. How is it double standards when politicians from across the board (PS, UMP and others) get criticized when they have money? Remember DSK? Do you think nobody ever mentioned his money before May of last year? How about when he got photographed next to a Porsche that wasn't even his? Again, stop trying to play the victim card. They're not criticized equally. Everyone jumped on Sarkozy to blame him for the Fouquet's, and now media are turning a blind eye on Hollande when he does the same thing. Double standards Doing the same thing would have been going to the Fouquet's the night of the election. He didn't, he went to meet the people who had voted for him. Again, people from the left with money have also been criticized for their money (which is an accusation I personally consider ridiculous for everyone, whether from the left or the right). This by definition means there is no such double standard. Stop trying.
He ate Foie Gras at Le Laurent the night he won the first round of the election...
(For once, that useless France 2 journalism during election days helped me out)
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On May 08 2012 01:00 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:58 kwizach wrote:On May 08 2012 00:54 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:51 kwizach wrote:On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow.
[quote]
Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards. How is it double standards when politicians from across the board (PS, UMP and others) get criticized when they have money? Remember DSK? Do you think nobody ever mentioned his money before May of last year? How about when he got photographed next to a Porsche that wasn't even his? Again, stop trying to play the victim card. They're not criticized equally. Everyone jumped on Sarkozy to blame him for the Fouquet's, and now media are turning a blind eye on Hollande when he does the same thing. Double standards Doing the same thing would have been going to the Fouquet's the night of the election. He didn't, he went to meet the people who had voted for him. Again, people from the left with money have also been criticized for their money (which is an accusation I personally consider ridiculous for everyone, whether from the left or the right). This by definition means there is no such double standard. Stop trying. He ate Foie Gras at Le Laurent the night he won the first round of the election... (For once, that useless France 2 journalism during election days helped me out)
He was not the president-elect on the night of the first round of the election. Nobody talked about where Sarkozy ate on the night of the first round in 2007 either.
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It was known the week before that he would take a private plane... And yes, eating at the Fouquet's is not a problem, the problem is with who you are eating and when...
Mitterand, Chirac, etc was another time. Too bad NS did not understand this fast enough.
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On May 08 2012 01:00 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:45 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:35 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:
[quote]
And how it is related to what we are discussing ?
What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:
[quote]
Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance.
Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards. Ok now you bring Mitterand back. Should I bring back De Gaulle because he almost killed my mother during mai 68 ? Dead people are better left alone. Also it's very funny to see your talk about poor people, aren't you in a prépa ? Is that your definition of poor ? Be reminded that people who elected Hollande were mostly living in the cities, the rural world voted for Sarkosy and needless to say most of them are uneducated and xenophobic. In the suburds, Hollande has more than 60%, among workers even more. Don't try to pass yourself off as the defenders of the poor, you aren't and Sarkosy certainly wasn't too. You're the only one talking about me here. Let's leave it at that. You can bring back anyone you'd like, I hold everyone at the same standards. If you just want to talk about Hollande, he's the guy that regularly eats at "Le Laurent" with his good friends BHL, Mathieu Pigasse and Pierre Bergé. You know that "Le Laurent" has prices twice as high as "Le Fouquet's" ? You also know who Pigasse and Bergé are ? Double standards ? You are a true master of misrepresentation. I didn't for for Hollande because Sarkosy was a bling-bling gangsta, so I don't see the point in arguing with you. I expressed my point of view on the Fouquet's vs. Air Travel dichotomy, I explained why it isn't a matter of money or friends and you keep bringing money and friends up. That part of the topic should be closed by now.
If you don't want me to talk about money, then why accuse me of going to prepa and being rich ?
You say the Fouquet's is a symbol, I agree.
I'm arguing that taking a jet when you said you wouldn't is also quite a symbol.
Hollande has done as many scandalous things as Sarkozy but somehow the media refuse to pick up on it. That's why I'm saying "double standards". I don't care whether politicians have money and rich friends or not...
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i think the best for europe won, even sarkozy did well with germany so i expect the new one doing even better
frensh germany is a very strong partnership hope it goes on
thank god lepen not first ... thank god ...
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On May 08 2012 01:06 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 01:00 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:45 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:35 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow.
[quote]
Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards. Ok now you bring Mitterand back. Should I bring back De Gaulle because he almost killed my mother during mai 68 ? Dead people are better left alone. Also it's very funny to see your talk about poor people, aren't you in a prépa ? Is that your definition of poor ? Be reminded that people who elected Hollande were mostly living in the cities, the rural world voted for Sarkosy and needless to say most of them are uneducated and xenophobic. In the suburds, Hollande has more than 60%, among workers even more. Don't try to pass yourself off as the defenders of the poor, you aren't and Sarkosy certainly wasn't too. You're the only one talking about me here. Let's leave it at that. You can bring back anyone you'd like, I hold everyone at the same standards. If you just want to talk about Hollande, he's the guy that regularly eats at "Le Laurent" with his good friends BHL, Mathieu Pigasse and Pierre Bergé. You know that "Le Laurent" has prices twice as high as "Le Fouquet's" ? You also know who Pigasse and Bergé are ? Double standards ? You are a true master of misrepresentation. I didn't for for Hollande because Sarkosy was a bling-bling gangsta, so I don't see the point in arguing with you. I expressed my point of view on the Fouquet's vs. Air Travel dichotomy, I explained why it isn't a matter of money or friends and you keep bringing money and friends up. That part of the topic should be closed by now. Hollande has done as many scandalous things as Sarkozy but somehow the media refuse to pick up on it. That's why I'm saying "double standards". I don't care whether politicians have money and rich friends or not...
I just showed you your "double standards" accusation was fallacious.
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On May 08 2012 01:04 Nitro68 wrote:
It was known the week before that he would take a private plane... And yes, eating at the Fouquet's is not a problem, the problem is with who you are eating and when...
Mitterand, Chirac, etc was another time. Too bad NS did not understand this fast enough.
At the risk of repeating myself, Hollande also eats at fancy restaurants with rich entrepreneurs (bergé, pigasse, etc...).
He also eats at these restaurants at key moments of the election (1st round of this election).
Arguing that it's totally OK to do that the night of the first round, and not OK at all to do it on the night of the second round is pretty laughable.
And is an example of + Show Spoiler + that happened during this election.
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On May 08 2012 01:10 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 01:06 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 01:00 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:45 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:35 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:19 Geiko wrote:On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:
[quote]
How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man. When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory. What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards. Ok now you bring Mitterand back. Should I bring back De Gaulle because he almost killed my mother during mai 68 ? Dead people are better left alone. Also it's very funny to see your talk about poor people, aren't you in a prépa ? Is that your definition of poor ? Be reminded that people who elected Hollande were mostly living in the cities, the rural world voted for Sarkosy and needless to say most of them are uneducated and xenophobic. In the suburds, Hollande has more than 60%, among workers even more. Don't try to pass yourself off as the defenders of the poor, you aren't and Sarkosy certainly wasn't too. You're the only one talking about me here. Let's leave it at that. You can bring back anyone you'd like, I hold everyone at the same standards. If you just want to talk about Hollande, he's the guy that regularly eats at "Le Laurent" with his good friends BHL, Mathieu Pigasse and Pierre Bergé. You know that "Le Laurent" has prices twice as high as "Le Fouquet's" ? You also know who Pigasse and Bergé are ? Double standards ? You are a true master of misrepresentation. I didn't for for Hollande because Sarkosy was a bling-bling gangsta, so I don't see the point in arguing with you. I expressed my point of view on the Fouquet's vs. Air Travel dichotomy, I explained why it isn't a matter of money or friends and you keep bringing money and friends up. That part of the topic should be closed by now. Hollande has done as many scandalous things as Sarkozy but somehow the media refuse to pick up on it. That's why I'm saying "double standards". I don't care whether politicians have money and rich friends or not... I just showed you your "double standards" accusation was fallacious.
No you didn't.
Media reacting for one and not for the other is a clear double standard.
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EPT
