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On May 07 2012 21:51 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 21:44 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On May 07 2012 21:32 MilesTeg wrote:On May 07 2012 21:22 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Oh well i guess France will just go bankrupt sooner.Thats what the markets seem to be showing anyhow.
Reducing retirement age from 62 to 60? i mean come on.Socialists have no idea about economics..... Yeah, I mean what does this Krugman guy know about economics anyway? Surely iPlaY.NettleS knows better. ok , you tell me how lowering the retirement age from 62 to 60 will help the french deficit? and you tell me how increasing retirement age from 60 to 62 will help? If you work more, then young workers don't get your job; and they get unemployment wages. So the State doesn't pay retirement, but pay unemployment. Plus you make two persons unhappy, the old worker who wants to stop working; and the young worker who has no job. Smart?
I don't see why an old worker would want to stop working when they lost half their superannuation in the share market crash a few years back.
If you want to bring jobs back then you need to lower taxes to make your country more competitive.French trade deficit was 4.5-5 billion USD a month last time i checked which is totally unsustainable.Lowering taxes = more factory and service jobs = more income taxes paid to government = government makes more money than when they had higher taxes.Pretty simple stuff.
By the way the more debt this socialist guy creates the more interest paid to the bankers and less money for government services and government jobs.You supporters know that right?
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Yeah, because the austerity course is not just showing that it is a huge failure with examples like Greece and Ireland.
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On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 19:42 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 19:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 17:46 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 17:29 jon arbuckle wrote:
I honestly want to kiss France on the cheek.
Were there any Le Pen supporters in this thread? I'm afraid to look. Most of them aren't really that bad. They are just conservative people who are pissed by the recent scandals, the lies and all the political bs. The sociology of the party is also fairly complex and there are several different tendencies, it is not like 18% of the population are nazi wannabes lol. Anyway they can't be really worse than all the resentful lefties. No offense but you are the one who sound resentful. Nope, i don't hate rich people and i'm not butthurt because Le Pen got 18% and Melenchon only 11. Also i'm not calling people nazis because they don't agree with me :D I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. Georges Bidault, le successeur de Jean Moulin à la tête du CNR, ancien Président du Conseil et Ministre des Affaires étrangères du GPRF et de la Quatrième République, ayant rompu avec l'attachement à de Gaulle au moment de la guerre d'Algérie, alors chef du Mouvement pour la justice et la liberté, partira presque immédiatement le 12 octobre 1972 tout en conservant des relations d'amitié avec la plupart des nationalistes ;
Pierre Bousquet, secrétaire général du Parti de l'Unité Française et ancien de la division SS Charlemagne. Il partira en 1981
François Brigneau, ancien milicien, condamné pour collaboration avec les nazis, puis à Ordre nouveau, journaliste à Minute et au Crapouillot, cofondateur avec Antoine Blondin et Pierre Boutang de nombreux journaux comme La Dernière lanterne qui deviendra La Fronde et enfin Rivarol, ancien des Comités Tixier1
Dominique Chaboche, ancien de Occident
François Duprat, journaliste et ancien de Ordre nouveau, diffuseur du négationnisme, assassiné en 1978. Les auteurs du crime n'ont jamais été retrouvés
Roland Gaucher, ancien collaborateur, historien du communisme et romancier engagé dans la dénonciation de la dictature dans les démocraties populaires, journaliste à Minute, Initiative nationale Itinéraires, L'Auto-Journal, avec Barthélemy et Brigneau la personnalité la plus influente et la plus décisive sur le nationalisme recomposé de la seconde moitié du XXe siècle
Léon Gaultier, ancien proche collaborateur du Secrétaire général à l'Information du gouvernement du Maréchal Pierre Marion, un des fondateurs de la Milice, il a combattu sous l'uniforme allemand de la Waffen-SS sur le Front de l'Est durant l'été 19442, il a travaillé après sa libération pour l'agence Havas, et a été l'un des cofondateurs avec son ami Jean-Marie Le Pen de la SERP : s'il n'est pas directement un fondateur du parti, il y participera après dans la traversée du désert mais sera progressivement écarté du cercle des amis de Jean-Marie Le Pen au début des années 1980
Roger Holeindre, ancien résistant, ancien de l’OAS, alors président du Parti de l'Unité Française
Alain Robert, pour Ordre nouveau et le GUD. Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://www.livresdeguerre.net/telechar/contribs/17945co.jpg) Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh.
But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war.
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On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 19:42 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 19:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 17:46 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 17:29 jon arbuckle wrote:
I honestly want to kiss France on the cheek.
Were there any Le Pen supporters in this thread? I'm afraid to look. Most of them aren't really that bad. They are just conservative people who are pissed by the recent scandals, the lies and all the political bs. The sociology of the party is also fairly complex and there are several different tendencies, it is not like 18% of the population are nazi wannabes lol. Anyway they can't be really worse than all the resentful lefties. No offense but you are the one who sound resentful. Nope, i don't hate rich people and i'm not butthurt because Le Pen got 18% and Melenchon only 11. Also i'm not calling people nazis because they don't agree with me :D I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. Georges Bidault, le successeur de Jean Moulin à la tête du CNR, ancien Président du Conseil et Ministre des Affaires étrangères du GPRF et de la Quatrième République, ayant rompu avec l'attachement à de Gaulle au moment de la guerre d'Algérie, alors chef du Mouvement pour la justice et la liberté, partira presque immédiatement le 12 octobre 1972 tout en conservant des relations d'amitié avec la plupart des nationalistes ;
Pierre Bousquet, secrétaire général du Parti de l'Unité Française et ancien de la division SS Charlemagne. Il partira en 1981
François Brigneau, ancien milicien, condamné pour collaboration avec les nazis, puis à Ordre nouveau, journaliste à Minute et au Crapouillot, cofondateur avec Antoine Blondin et Pierre Boutang de nombreux journaux comme La Dernière lanterne qui deviendra La Fronde et enfin Rivarol, ancien des Comités Tixier1
Dominique Chaboche, ancien de Occident
François Duprat, journaliste et ancien de Ordre nouveau, diffuseur du négationnisme, assassiné en 1978. Les auteurs du crime n'ont jamais été retrouvés
Roland Gaucher, ancien collaborateur, historien du communisme et romancier engagé dans la dénonciation de la dictature dans les démocraties populaires, journaliste à Minute, Initiative nationale Itinéraires, L'Auto-Journal, avec Barthélemy et Brigneau la personnalité la plus influente et la plus décisive sur le nationalisme recomposé de la seconde moitié du XXe siècle
Léon Gaultier, ancien proche collaborateur du Secrétaire général à l'Information du gouvernement du Maréchal Pierre Marion, un des fondateurs de la Milice, il a combattu sous l'uniforme allemand de la Waffen-SS sur le Front de l'Est durant l'été 19442, il a travaillé après sa libération pour l'agence Havas, et a été l'un des cofondateurs avec son ami Jean-Marie Le Pen de la SERP : s'il n'est pas directement un fondateur du parti, il y participera après dans la traversée du désert mais sera progressivement écarté du cercle des amis de Jean-Marie Le Pen au début des années 1980
Roger Holeindre, ancien résistant, ancien de l’OAS, alors président du Parti de l'Unité Française
Alain Robert, pour Ordre nouveau et le GUD. Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war.
And how it is related to what we are discussing ?
What about Mitterrand till 43 ?
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So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ?
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On May 07 2012 21:58 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 21:51 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 21:44 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On May 07 2012 21:32 MilesTeg wrote:On May 07 2012 21:22 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Oh well i guess France will just go bankrupt sooner.Thats what the markets seem to be showing anyhow.
Reducing retirement age from 62 to 60? i mean come on.Socialists have no idea about economics..... Yeah, I mean what does this Krugman guy know about economics anyway? Surely iPlaY.NettleS knows better. ok , you tell me how lowering the retirement age from 62 to 60 will help the french deficit? and you tell me how increasing retirement age from 60 to 62 will help? If you work more, then young workers don't get your job; and they get unemployment wages. So the State doesn't pay retirement, but pay unemployment. Plus you make two persons unhappy, the old worker who wants to stop working; and the young worker who has no job. Smart? I don't see why an old worker would want to stop working when they lost half their superannuation in the share market crash a few years back. If you want to bring jobs back then you need to lower taxes to make your country more competitive.French trade deficit was 4.5-5 billion USD a month last time i checked which is totally unsustainable.Lowering taxes = more factory and service jobs = more income taxes paid to government = government makes more money than when they had higher taxes.Pretty simple stuff. By the way the more debt this socialist guy creates the more interest paid to the bankers and less money for government services and government jobs.You supporters know that right?
Well this is why I personnally rather in favor of a democratic examination of the debt by the republic, to decide what we pay because it is a fair debt, and what stop to pay because it is not.
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On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ?
Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance.
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On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 19:42 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 19:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 17:46 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 17:29 jon arbuckle wrote:
I honestly want to kiss France on the cheek.
Were there any Le Pen supporters in this thread? I'm afraid to look. Most of them aren't really that bad. They are just conservative people who are pissed by the recent scandals, the lies and all the political bs. The sociology of the party is also fairly complex and there are several different tendencies, it is not like 18% of the population are nazi wannabes lol. Anyway they can't be really worse than all the resentful lefties. No offense but you are the one who sound resentful. Nope, i don't hate rich people and i'm not butthurt because Le Pen got 18% and Melenchon only 11. Also i'm not calling people nazis because they don't agree with me :D I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. Georges Bidault, le successeur de Jean Moulin à la tête du CNR, ancien Président du Conseil et Ministre des Affaires étrangères du GPRF et de la Quatrième République, ayant rompu avec l'attachement à de Gaulle au moment de la guerre d'Algérie, alors chef du Mouvement pour la justice et la liberté, partira presque immédiatement le 12 octobre 1972 tout en conservant des relations d'amitié avec la plupart des nationalistes ;
Pierre Bousquet, secrétaire général du Parti de l'Unité Française et ancien de la division SS Charlemagne. Il partira en 1981
François Brigneau, ancien milicien, condamné pour collaboration avec les nazis, puis à Ordre nouveau, journaliste à Minute et au Crapouillot, cofondateur avec Antoine Blondin et Pierre Boutang de nombreux journaux comme La Dernière lanterne qui deviendra La Fronde et enfin Rivarol, ancien des Comités Tixier1
Dominique Chaboche, ancien de Occident
François Duprat, journaliste et ancien de Ordre nouveau, diffuseur du négationnisme, assassiné en 1978. Les auteurs du crime n'ont jamais été retrouvés
Roland Gaucher, ancien collaborateur, historien du communisme et romancier engagé dans la dénonciation de la dictature dans les démocraties populaires, journaliste à Minute, Initiative nationale Itinéraires, L'Auto-Journal, avec Barthélemy et Brigneau la personnalité la plus influente et la plus décisive sur le nationalisme recomposé de la seconde moitié du XXe siècle
Léon Gaultier, ancien proche collaborateur du Secrétaire général à l'Information du gouvernement du Maréchal Pierre Marion, un des fondateurs de la Milice, il a combattu sous l'uniforme allemand de la Waffen-SS sur le Front de l'Est durant l'été 19442, il a travaillé après sa libération pour l'agence Havas, et a été l'un des cofondateurs avec son ami Jean-Marie Le Pen de la SERP : s'il n'est pas directement un fondateur du parti, il y participera après dans la traversée du désert mais sera progressivement écarté du cercle des amis de Jean-Marie Le Pen au début des années 1980
Roger Holeindre, ancien résistant, ancien de l’OAS, alors président du Parti de l'Unité Française
Alain Robert, pour Ordre nouveau et le GUD. Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ?
It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow.
On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance.
Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man.
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On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 19:42 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 19:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 17:46 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 17:29 jon arbuckle wrote:
I honestly want to kiss France on the cheek.
Were there any Le Pen supporters in this thread? I'm afraid to look. Most of them aren't really that bad. They are just conservative people who are pissed by the recent scandals, the lies and all the political bs. The sociology of the party is also fairly complex and there are several different tendencies, it is not like 18% of the population are nazi wannabes lol. Anyway they can't be really worse than all the resentful lefties. No offense but you are the one who sound resentful. Nope, i don't hate rich people and i'm not butthurt because Le Pen got 18% and Melenchon only 11. Also i'm not calling people nazis because they don't agree with me :D I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. Georges Bidault, le successeur de Jean Moulin à la tête du CNR, ancien Président du Conseil et Ministre des Affaires étrangères du GPRF et de la Quatrième République, ayant rompu avec l'attachement à de Gaulle au moment de la guerre d'Algérie, alors chef du Mouvement pour la justice et la liberté, partira presque immédiatement le 12 octobre 1972 tout en conservant des relations d'amitié avec la plupart des nationalistes ;
Pierre Bousquet, secrétaire général du Parti de l'Unité Française et ancien de la division SS Charlemagne. Il partira en 1981
François Brigneau, ancien milicien, condamné pour collaboration avec les nazis, puis à Ordre nouveau, journaliste à Minute et au Crapouillot, cofondateur avec Antoine Blondin et Pierre Boutang de nombreux journaux comme La Dernière lanterne qui deviendra La Fronde et enfin Rivarol, ancien des Comités Tixier1
Dominique Chaboche, ancien de Occident
François Duprat, journaliste et ancien de Ordre nouveau, diffuseur du négationnisme, assassiné en 1978. Les auteurs du crime n'ont jamais été retrouvés
Roland Gaucher, ancien collaborateur, historien du communisme et romancier engagé dans la dénonciation de la dictature dans les démocraties populaires, journaliste à Minute, Initiative nationale Itinéraires, L'Auto-Journal, avec Barthélemy et Brigneau la personnalité la plus influente et la plus décisive sur le nationalisme recomposé de la seconde moitié du XXe siècle
Léon Gaultier, ancien proche collaborateur du Secrétaire général à l'Information du gouvernement du Maréchal Pierre Marion, un des fondateurs de la Milice, il a combattu sous l'uniforme allemand de la Waffen-SS sur le Front de l'Est durant l'été 19442, il a travaillé après sa libération pour l'agence Havas, et a été l'un des cofondateurs avec son ami Jean-Marie Le Pen de la SERP : s'il n'est pas directement un fondateur du parti, il y participera après dans la traversée du désert mais sera progressivement écarté du cercle des amis de Jean-Marie Le Pen au début des années 1980
Roger Holeindre, ancien résistant, ancien de l’OAS, alors président du Parti de l'Unité Française
Alain Robert, pour Ordre nouveau et le GUD. Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow.
Well that's not me who started "taking historical fact out of context" but when some lefty starts to throw some ridiculous accusations well it is just too easy and funny to remind him of Mitterrand 
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On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 19:42 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 19:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 17:46 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 17:29 jon arbuckle wrote:
I honestly want to kiss France on the cheek.
Were there any Le Pen supporters in this thread? I'm afraid to look. Most of them aren't really that bad. They are just conservative people who are pissed by the recent scandals, the lies and all the political bs. The sociology of the party is also fairly complex and there are several different tendencies, it is not like 18% of the population are nazi wannabes lol. Anyway they can't be really worse than all the resentful lefties. No offense but you are the one who sound resentful. Nope, i don't hate rich people and i'm not butthurt because Le Pen got 18% and Melenchon only 11. Also i'm not calling people nazis because they don't agree with me :D I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. Georges Bidault, le successeur de Jean Moulin à la tête du CNR, ancien Président du Conseil et Ministre des Affaires étrangères du GPRF et de la Quatrième République, ayant rompu avec l'attachement à de Gaulle au moment de la guerre d'Algérie, alors chef du Mouvement pour la justice et la liberté, partira presque immédiatement le 12 octobre 1972 tout en conservant des relations d'amitié avec la plupart des nationalistes ;
Pierre Bousquet, secrétaire général du Parti de l'Unité Française et ancien de la division SS Charlemagne. Il partira en 1981
François Brigneau, ancien milicien, condamné pour collaboration avec les nazis, puis à Ordre nouveau, journaliste à Minute et au Crapouillot, cofondateur avec Antoine Blondin et Pierre Boutang de nombreux journaux comme La Dernière lanterne qui deviendra La Fronde et enfin Rivarol, ancien des Comités Tixier1
Dominique Chaboche, ancien de Occident
François Duprat, journaliste et ancien de Ordre nouveau, diffuseur du négationnisme, assassiné en 1978. Les auteurs du crime n'ont jamais été retrouvés
Roland Gaucher, ancien collaborateur, historien du communisme et romancier engagé dans la dénonciation de la dictature dans les démocraties populaires, journaliste à Minute, Initiative nationale Itinéraires, L'Auto-Journal, avec Barthélemy et Brigneau la personnalité la plus influente et la plus décisive sur le nationalisme recomposé de la seconde moitié du XXe siècle
Léon Gaultier, ancien proche collaborateur du Secrétaire général à l'Information du gouvernement du Maréchal Pierre Marion, un des fondateurs de la Milice, il a combattu sous l'uniforme allemand de la Waffen-SS sur le Front de l'Est durant l'été 19442, il a travaillé après sa libération pour l'agence Havas, et a été l'un des cofondateurs avec son ami Jean-Marie Le Pen de la SERP : s'il n'est pas directement un fondateur du parti, il y participera après dans la traversée du désert mais sera progressivement écarté du cercle des amis de Jean-Marie Le Pen au début des années 1980
Roger Holeindre, ancien résistant, ancien de l’OAS, alors président du Parti de l'Unité Française
Alain Robert, pour Ordre nouveau et le GUD. Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man.
How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ?
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On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 19:42 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 19:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 17:46 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 17:29 jon arbuckle wrote:
I honestly want to kiss France on the cheek.
Were there any Le Pen supporters in this thread? I'm afraid to look. Most of them aren't really that bad. They are just conservative people who are pissed by the recent scandals, the lies and all the political bs. The sociology of the party is also fairly complex and there are several different tendencies, it is not like 18% of the population are nazi wannabes lol. Anyway they can't be really worse than all the resentful lefties. No offense but you are the one who sound resentful. Nope, i don't hate rich people and i'm not butthurt because Le Pen got 18% and Melenchon only 11. Also i'm not calling people nazis because they don't agree with me :D I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. Georges Bidault, le successeur de Jean Moulin à la tête du CNR, ancien Président du Conseil et Ministre des Affaires étrangères du GPRF et de la Quatrième République, ayant rompu avec l'attachement à de Gaulle au moment de la guerre d'Algérie, alors chef du Mouvement pour la justice et la liberté, partira presque immédiatement le 12 octobre 1972 tout en conservant des relations d'amitié avec la plupart des nationalistes ;
Pierre Bousquet, secrétaire général du Parti de l'Unité Française et ancien de la division SS Charlemagne. Il partira en 1981
François Brigneau, ancien milicien, condamné pour collaboration avec les nazis, puis à Ordre nouveau, journaliste à Minute et au Crapouillot, cofondateur avec Antoine Blondin et Pierre Boutang de nombreux journaux comme La Dernière lanterne qui deviendra La Fronde et enfin Rivarol, ancien des Comités Tixier1
Dominique Chaboche, ancien de Occident
François Duprat, journaliste et ancien de Ordre nouveau, diffuseur du négationnisme, assassiné en 1978. Les auteurs du crime n'ont jamais été retrouvés
Roland Gaucher, ancien collaborateur, historien du communisme et romancier engagé dans la dénonciation de la dictature dans les démocraties populaires, journaliste à Minute, Initiative nationale Itinéraires, L'Auto-Journal, avec Barthélemy et Brigneau la personnalité la plus influente et la plus décisive sur le nationalisme recomposé de la seconde moitié du XXe siècle
Léon Gaultier, ancien proche collaborateur du Secrétaire général à l'Information du gouvernement du Maréchal Pierre Marion, un des fondateurs de la Milice, il a combattu sous l'uniforme allemand de la Waffen-SS sur le Front de l'Est durant l'été 19442, il a travaillé après sa libération pour l'agence Havas, et a été l'un des cofondateurs avec son ami Jean-Marie Le Pen de la SERP : s'il n'est pas directement un fondateur du parti, il y participera après dans la traversée du désert mais sera progressivement écarté du cercle des amis de Jean-Marie Le Pen au début des années 1980
Roger Holeindre, ancien résistant, ancien de l’OAS, alors président du Parti de l'Unité Française
Alain Robert, pour Ordre nouveau et le GUD. Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man.
Well he could have planned things in such a way that he didn't go to make his speech in Tulle in the first place for instance. Or, he should not have made his promises about taking the train. But there is something annoying in both cases.
More generally speaking it's all about how our representatives should live. I don't think the president should have a airplane just for himself.
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On May 07 2012 22:07 Velr wrote:
Yeah, because the austerity course is not just showing that it is a huge failure with examples like Greece and Ireland.
Link me to where i said it was?
What i said was they need to lower taxes to stimulate the economy , bring jobs back , reduce the trade deficit , creating more tax revenue for the government by reopening the factories.Lower taxes = better environment for businesses.
I also said the socialist will create alot more debt which will need to be paid back with interest , meaning in the longer term less money paid for government services and government jobs and more being paid in interest to the big banks.Surely you don't want that? Things are looking real bad for France with this guy in office.
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On May 07 2012 22:38 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:07 Velr wrote:
Yeah, because the austerity course is not just showing that it is a huge failure with examples like Greece and Ireland. Link me to where i said it was? What i said was they need to lower taxes to stimulate the economy , bring jobs back , reduce the trade deficit , creating more tax revenue for the government by reopening the factories.Lower taxes = better environment for businesses. I also said the socialist will create alot more debt which will need to be paid back with interest , meaning in the longer term less money paid for government services and government jobs and more being paid in interest to the big banks.Surely you don't want that? Things are looking real bad for France with this guy in office.
Lowering taxes only provides very modest stimulus. Where are you getting your economics from? Tony Abbot?
Unfortunately the solution isn't so simple, because France is part of the Eurozone, which is like a gold standard, and so cannot simply use monetary policy. Nor can they use fiscal stimulus as they've signed a fiscal pact. So the options seems to be renegotiating that pact, which appears to be what Hollande intends to do, or using ineffective gimmicks like "structural reforms" to increase competition, or tax cuts.
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I was at the rue de Solférino (PS headquarters) at 20.00 and then went to la Bastille. Amazing night and atmosphere. So glad we won :-)
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On May 07 2012 21:38 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 21:32 Oshuy wrote:On May 07 2012 21:08 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 20:59 Oshuy wrote:On May 07 2012 20:38 Macpo wrote:
About Marine le pen being racist, you just have to change "race" by "culture" which fulfills the same function in the argumentation, and you have it. it's the same word, because in the end, it's all about identity and alterity: we don't accept the other in the community, because we feel it threatens our own identity and being. That is nationalism, not racism. It is more a matter of debating wether there is such a thing as a nation's culture and if so, should it change to adapt to newcomers or should the newcomers adapt to fit in. I agree M. Le Pen is actively defending that yes France has its culture and yes newcomers should learn to speak french, stop washing and gobble up frogs before they are accepted. Racist statements are illegal in France, but nationalist views are a classical conservative stance. They can be debated, but I fail to see that they should be outright rejected. Well to a certain extent, it is precisely because racist statements are illegal that right and far right parties tend to be racist indirectly, instead of doing it openly. But this, though, doesn't prevent racist outbursts. Should I remind you that Brice Hortefeux was found guilty of racism. He is not even far right supposedly. He was just a member of the UMP goverment in office at the time... Now you're blaming them of being racist because they do not make racist statements, but you believe there are racist beliefs hidden somewhere behind it all the same ? And what is the link between the fine payed by some random politician and the views of a party he's not even a member of ? That just makes no sense. Yes I am just saying that racism is more often suggested than openly claimed. Is that so complicated?
What is weird is the reasoning you make of it:
- racism is more often suggested than claimed
- they do not claim racism
- therefore they are racist
What I get is that you consider the FN has been racist since its creation and will therefore remain so forever, even if its claims change. Do you expect the socialist party to nationalize the french industry ?
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On May 07 2012 23:16 Oshuy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 21:38 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 21:32 Oshuy wrote:On May 07 2012 21:08 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 20:59 Oshuy wrote:On May 07 2012 20:38 Macpo wrote:
About Marine le pen being racist, you just have to change "race" by "culture" which fulfills the same function in the argumentation, and you have it. it's the same word, because in the end, it's all about identity and alterity: we don't accept the other in the community, because we feel it threatens our own identity and being. That is nationalism, not racism. It is more a matter of debating wether there is such a thing as a nation's culture and if so, should it change to adapt to newcomers or should the newcomers adapt to fit in. I agree M. Le Pen is actively defending that yes France has its culture and yes newcomers should learn to speak french, stop washing and gobble up frogs before they are accepted. Racist statements are illegal in France, but nationalist views are a classical conservative stance. They can be debated, but I fail to see that they should be outright rejected. Well to a certain extent, it is precisely because racist statements are illegal that right and far right parties tend to be racist indirectly, instead of doing it openly. But this, though, doesn't prevent racist outbursts. Should I remind you that Brice Hortefeux was found guilty of racism. He is not even far right supposedly. He was just a member of the UMP goverment in office at the time... Now you're blaming them of being racist because they do not make racist statements, but you believe there are racist beliefs hidden somewhere behind it all the same ? And what is the link between the fine payed by some random politician and the views of a party he's not even a member of ? That just makes no sense. Yes I am just saying that racism is more often suggested than openly claimed. Is that so complicated? What is weird is the reasoning you make of it: - racism is more often suggested than claimed - they do not claim racism - therefore they are racist What I get is that you consider the FN has been racist since its creation and will therefore remain so forever, even if its claims change. Do you expect the socialist party to nationalize the french industry ?
No this is not what I say. You seem to assume that they use to be racist, but aren't anymore. I think this is an illusion. What I say is that they can't be so openly blatantly racists, despite the fact that they'd really like to; and that in private, they do are much more openly and freely racists ; and that as a consequence, they make more moderate claims in the public space, claims which are more strategic than sincere in their very relative "moderation"; and overall remain very racist still, although most often not susceptible to go to court for instance.
Sounds like you don't want to understand...
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On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 19:42 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 19:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 17:46 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 17:29 jon arbuckle wrote:
I honestly want to kiss France on the cheek.
Were there any Le Pen supporters in this thread? I'm afraid to look. Most of them aren't really that bad. They are just conservative people who are pissed by the recent scandals, the lies and all the political bs. The sociology of the party is also fairly complex and there are several different tendencies, it is not like 18% of the population are nazi wannabes lol. Anyway they can't be really worse than all the resentful lefties. No offense but you are the one who sound resentful. Nope, i don't hate rich people and i'm not butthurt because Le Pen got 18% and Melenchon only 11. Also i'm not calling people nazis because they don't agree with me :D I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. Georges Bidault, le successeur de Jean Moulin à la tête du CNR, ancien Président du Conseil et Ministre des Affaires étrangères du GPRF et de la Quatrième République, ayant rompu avec l'attachement à de Gaulle au moment de la guerre d'Algérie, alors chef du Mouvement pour la justice et la liberté, partira presque immédiatement le 12 octobre 1972 tout en conservant des relations d'amitié avec la plupart des nationalistes ;
Pierre Bousquet, secrétaire général du Parti de l'Unité Française et ancien de la division SS Charlemagne. Il partira en 1981
François Brigneau, ancien milicien, condamné pour collaboration avec les nazis, puis à Ordre nouveau, journaliste à Minute et au Crapouillot, cofondateur avec Antoine Blondin et Pierre Boutang de nombreux journaux comme La Dernière lanterne qui deviendra La Fronde et enfin Rivarol, ancien des Comités Tixier1
Dominique Chaboche, ancien de Occident
François Duprat, journaliste et ancien de Ordre nouveau, diffuseur du négationnisme, assassiné en 1978. Les auteurs du crime n'ont jamais été retrouvés
Roland Gaucher, ancien collaborateur, historien du communisme et romancier engagé dans la dénonciation de la dictature dans les démocraties populaires, journaliste à Minute, Initiative nationale Itinéraires, L'Auto-Journal, avec Barthélemy et Brigneau la personnalité la plus influente et la plus décisive sur le nationalisme recomposé de la seconde moitié du XXe siècle
Léon Gaultier, ancien proche collaborateur du Secrétaire général à l'Information du gouvernement du Maréchal Pierre Marion, un des fondateurs de la Milice, il a combattu sous l'uniforme allemand de la Waffen-SS sur le Front de l'Est durant l'été 19442, il a travaillé après sa libération pour l'agence Havas, et a été l'un des cofondateurs avec son ami Jean-Marie Le Pen de la SERP : s'il n'est pas directement un fondateur du parti, il y participera après dans la traversée du désert mais sera progressivement écarté du cercle des amis de Jean-Marie Le Pen au début des années 1980
Roger Holeindre, ancien résistant, ancien de l’OAS, alors président du Parti de l'Unité Française
Alain Robert, pour Ordre nouveau et le GUD. Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ?
It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant.
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On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 19:42 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 19:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 17:46 Boblion wrote:
[quote]
Most of them aren't really that bad. They are just conservative people who are pissed by the recent scandals, the lies and all the political bs. The sociology of the party is also fairly complex and there are several different tendencies, it is not like 18% of the population are nazi wannabes lol.
Anyway they can't be really worse than all the resentful lefties.
No offense but you are the one who sound resentful. Nope, i don't hate rich people and i'm not butthurt because Le Pen got 18% and Melenchon only 11. Also i'm not calling people nazis because they don't agree with me :D I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. Georges Bidault, le successeur de Jean Moulin à la tête du CNR, ancien Président du Conseil et Ministre des Affaires étrangères du GPRF et de la Quatrième République, ayant rompu avec l'attachement à de Gaulle au moment de la guerre d'Algérie, alors chef du Mouvement pour la justice et la liberté, partira presque immédiatement le 12 octobre 1972 tout en conservant des relations d'amitié avec la plupart des nationalistes ;
Pierre Bousquet, secrétaire général du Parti de l'Unité Française et ancien de la division SS Charlemagne. Il partira en 1981
François Brigneau, ancien milicien, condamné pour collaboration avec les nazis, puis à Ordre nouveau, journaliste à Minute et au Crapouillot, cofondateur avec Antoine Blondin et Pierre Boutang de nombreux journaux comme La Dernière lanterne qui deviendra La Fronde et enfin Rivarol, ancien des Comités Tixier1
Dominique Chaboche, ancien de Occident
François Duprat, journaliste et ancien de Ordre nouveau, diffuseur du négationnisme, assassiné en 1978. Les auteurs du crime n'ont jamais été retrouvés
Roland Gaucher, ancien collaborateur, historien du communisme et romancier engagé dans la dénonciation de la dictature dans les démocraties populaires, journaliste à Minute, Initiative nationale Itinéraires, L'Auto-Journal, avec Barthélemy et Brigneau la personnalité la plus influente et la plus décisive sur le nationalisme recomposé de la seconde moitié du XXe siècle
Léon Gaultier, ancien proche collaborateur du Secrétaire général à l'Information du gouvernement du Maréchal Pierre Marion, un des fondateurs de la Milice, il a combattu sous l'uniforme allemand de la Waffen-SS sur le Front de l'Est durant l'été 19442, il a travaillé après sa libération pour l'agence Havas, et a été l'un des cofondateurs avec son ami Jean-Marie Le Pen de la SERP : s'il n'est pas directement un fondateur du parti, il y participera après dans la traversée du désert mais sera progressivement écarté du cercle des amis de Jean-Marie Le Pen au début des années 1980
Roger Holeindre, ancien résistant, ancien de l’OAS, alors président du Parti de l'Unité Française
Alain Robert, pour Ordre nouveau et le GUD. Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant.
Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ...
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On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 19:42 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 19:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:
[quote]
No offense but you are the one who sound resentful. Nope, i don't hate rich people and i'm not butthurt because Le Pen got 18% and Melenchon only 11. Also i'm not calling people nazis because they don't agree with me :D I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. Georges Bidault, le successeur de Jean Moulin à la tête du CNR, ancien Président du Conseil et Ministre des Affaires étrangères du GPRF et de la Quatrième République, ayant rompu avec l'attachement à de Gaulle au moment de la guerre d'Algérie, alors chef du Mouvement pour la justice et la liberté, partira presque immédiatement le 12 octobre 1972 tout en conservant des relations d'amitié avec la plupart des nationalistes ;
Pierre Bousquet, secrétaire général du Parti de l'Unité Française et ancien de la division SS Charlemagne. Il partira en 1981
François Brigneau, ancien milicien, condamné pour collaboration avec les nazis, puis à Ordre nouveau, journaliste à Minute et au Crapouillot, cofondateur avec Antoine Blondin et Pierre Boutang de nombreux journaux comme La Dernière lanterne qui deviendra La Fronde et enfin Rivarol, ancien des Comités Tixier1
Dominique Chaboche, ancien de Occident
François Duprat, journaliste et ancien de Ordre nouveau, diffuseur du négationnisme, assassiné en 1978. Les auteurs du crime n'ont jamais été retrouvés
Roland Gaucher, ancien collaborateur, historien du communisme et romancier engagé dans la dénonciation de la dictature dans les démocraties populaires, journaliste à Minute, Initiative nationale Itinéraires, L'Auto-Journal, avec Barthélemy et Brigneau la personnalité la plus influente et la plus décisive sur le nationalisme recomposé de la seconde moitié du XXe siècle
Léon Gaultier, ancien proche collaborateur du Secrétaire général à l'Information du gouvernement du Maréchal Pierre Marion, un des fondateurs de la Milice, il a combattu sous l'uniforme allemand de la Waffen-SS sur le Front de l'Est durant l'été 19442, il a travaillé après sa libération pour l'agence Havas, et a été l'un des cofondateurs avec son ami Jean-Marie Le Pen de la SERP : s'il n'est pas directement un fondateur du parti, il y participera après dans la traversée du désert mais sera progressivement écarté du cercle des amis de Jean-Marie Le Pen au début des années 1980
Roger Holeindre, ancien résistant, ancien de l’OAS, alors président du Parti de l'Unité Française
Alain Robert, pour Ordre nouveau et le GUD. Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ...
There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate.
One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man.
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On May 08 2012 00:09 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 23:29 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:35 Geiko wrote:On May 07 2012 22:30 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 22:16 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 WhiteDog wrote:On May 07 2012 21:57 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 21:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 07 2012 19:42 Boblion wrote:
[quote]
Nope, i don't hate rich people and i'm not butthurt because Le Pen got 18% and Melenchon only 11.
Also i'm not calling people nazis because they don't agree with me :D
I'm sure you can make the difference between hating rich people and hating a political ideology that tends to favor richs becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. And blame the second ones for being lazy and claim they deserve their fate. If you can't that's a pity. Every FdG voter I have met, and they are a shitload of them around me, make it very clearly. As did Marx, that being said. Now your hatred on "lefties" really does smell resentment, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. And once again, comparing "lefties" and the left to a xenophobic party founded by OAS nostalgic and ex from La Milice, that is one of the most rooted in fascism in all Europe is sickening. There have always been people who were more scared by socialists than by fascists. Nothing new there. "Mieux vaut Hitler que le Front Populaire" was a famous slogan in late 30's. And, although Le Pen is not Hitler, the comparison applies perfectly. She represents the same hatred and the same fears. http://www.cozanne.net/le-bon-sens/944-rappel-la-fondation-du-front-nationalNo reason to compare these people with nazis you are right. They were just working with them. Georges Bidault, le successeur de Jean Moulin à la tête du CNR, ancien Président du Conseil et Ministre des Affaires étrangères du GPRF et de la Quatrième République, ayant rompu avec l'attachement à de Gaulle au moment de la guerre d'Algérie, alors chef du Mouvement pour la justice et la liberté, partira presque immédiatement le 12 octobre 1972 tout en conservant des relations d'amitié avec la plupart des nationalistes ;
Pierre Bousquet, secrétaire général du Parti de l'Unité Française et ancien de la division SS Charlemagne. Il partira en 1981
François Brigneau, ancien milicien, condamné pour collaboration avec les nazis, puis à Ordre nouveau, journaliste à Minute et au Crapouillot, cofondateur avec Antoine Blondin et Pierre Boutang de nombreux journaux comme La Dernière lanterne qui deviendra La Fronde et enfin Rivarol, ancien des Comités Tixier1
Dominique Chaboche, ancien de Occident
François Duprat, journaliste et ancien de Ordre nouveau, diffuseur du négationnisme, assassiné en 1978. Les auteurs du crime n'ont jamais été retrouvés
Roland Gaucher, ancien collaborateur, historien du communisme et romancier engagé dans la dénonciation de la dictature dans les démocraties populaires, journaliste à Minute, Initiative nationale Itinéraires, L'Auto-Journal, avec Barthélemy et Brigneau la personnalité la plus influente et la plus décisive sur le nationalisme recomposé de la seconde moitié du XXe siècle
Léon Gaultier, ancien proche collaborateur du Secrétaire général à l'Information du gouvernement du Maréchal Pierre Marion, un des fondateurs de la Milice, il a combattu sous l'uniforme allemand de la Waffen-SS sur le Front de l'Est durant l'été 19442, il a travaillé après sa libération pour l'agence Havas, et a été l'un des cofondateurs avec son ami Jean-Marie Le Pen de la SERP : s'il n'est pas directement un fondateur du parti, il y participera après dans la traversée du désert mais sera progressivement écarté du cercle des amis de Jean-Marie Le Pen au début des années 1980
Roger Holeindre, ancien résistant, ancien de l’OAS, alors président du Parti de l'Unité Française
Alain Robert, pour Ordre nouveau et le GUD. Resentment can only be directed toward higher beings duh. And again more dirty accusations from the lefties who always forgot that Mitterrand was a friend of Bousquet and got a very nice Francisque from Petain himself. Should i mention that many people from the socialist party collaborated ? You seem also to forget that it was the socialist (Mollet) who send the contingent in Algeria and that it is Mitterrand himself (Garde des Sceaux) who signed many death sentences during the war. Oh and Mitterrand was the dirtiest president we ever got. Your ignorance and naivety is amazing. + Show Spoiler +Sup lefties ! edit: Also read your sources lol. Holeindre is listed as "résistant" uh. But the CNPF collaborated, and most communist and syndicate were part of the resistance, like communist were one of the first movement to act against colonisation - during the Rif war. And how it is related to what we are discussing ? What about Mitterrand till 43 ? It's not related, just saying taking historical fact out of context to judge on the tendencies of the "lefties" is wrong. Mitterand had never been a "lefties" anyway, he just had gone with the flow. On May 07 2012 22:26 Macpo wrote:On May 07 2012 22:17 Geiko wrote:
So anyway,
"Si je suis élu, je prendrai le train" "Se déplacer en train fait partie, non pas des devoirs de candidat, mais d’un déplacement qui doit être normal y compris pour un président de la République" Quoted from Hollande (http://surlaroute2012.blogs.liberation.fr/campagne/2012/04/fran%C3%A7ois-hollande-et-la-normalit%C3%A9-du-train-.html)
Evening of the election, Mr Hollande takes a private Jet to go to Paris (http://www.menly.fr/buzz/presidentielle-2012-buzz/lantiseche-2nd-tour/618422-sarkozy-vote-catholiques-pratiquants-harris/)
This is the "république irréprochable".
I wouldn't have cared if the PS hadn't made such a fuss about the Fouquet's the evening of the 2007 election (50€ per meal on average), but tell me how many meals at the Fouquet's can one buy for the cost of a private jet trip (falcon900) ? Yes, I completely agree with that. I think we cannot have too many illusions on the way the Hollande government will turn out. Especially, I am afraid very little can be expected for lower classes, in regard of the reduction of inequalities. The parti socialiste is an elitist party (all his higher staff, for instance, comes from a variety of famous Schools); and they have given up a lot in their political program (supposedly socialist). Yet, it cannot be worse than Sarkozy. Plus, they are not, overall, racists; despite some ambiguous positions here and there. and we can hope for some progress for homosexuals for instance. Is it serious ? Do you know why he took the jet ? He had to go from Tulle to La Bastille the fastest possible because thousands of people where waiting for him. Get serious man. How about staying in Paris the night of the election where he knows he will get elected ? It's a tradition for a candidate to wait for the result in his circonscription. Also, it's actually completly off topic since Hollande is not President (yet) and did not use any state money, but private money coming from the PS. Your criticism is irrelevant. Because the Fouquet's was paid with state money ? Talk about double standards ... There is a difference between talking a plane and doing a discourse at 00:42 in front of a vast meeting of people and secluding oneself with rich friends to celebrate. One shows care of his electors, the others was more diligent with his rich friends. So, as long as we live in a democratic republic, yes there will be double standards like that. What matters isn't the cost or who pays, what matters is what it shows of the man.
When you say that you'll be a normal man and take the train instead of the airplane, you don't take a private jet (he had an airport open at night just for him) the night of your election. It's absurd and contradictory.
What kind of friends do you think Mr Hollande has ? Poor friends that earn the Smic ? No, he has the same kind of friends as Mr Sarkozy, and eats at the same kind of Restaurants (he was eating Foie Gras at Laurent's the night of the first round of the elections). In fact François Mitterand had a table reserved at the Fouquet's 2 times a week, no one bothered him about that? Double standards.
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EPT
