| Forum Index > General Forum |
|
RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
On May 07 2012 08:56 Chunhyang wrote: This seems to be a pretty important election for France and for Europe. I hope the people have made the right choice, or at least a well-informed one. Never trust "the people" (everywhere) to make either one of them. | ||
|
paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On May 07 2012 17:22 aksfjh wrote: To be honest, rich people don't stay because they are humane, but rather the cost and burden of leaving is greater than the burden of the tax rate. If you made a ton of money, you can essentially live in your dream location with an approximation of your dream life, which usually doesn't factor in how much income you can keep after some absurdly high cutoff point. It's the same reason why a lot of people choose to continue to live in naturally dangerous and/or politcally unstable places. It's home. Also, the marginal utility of every additional dollar is less when you're rich, i.e. poor people value money more than rich people because poor people need money to survive. | ||
|
Boblion
France8043 Posts
On May 07 2012 17:29 jon arbuckle wrote: I honestly want to kiss France on the cheek. Were there any Le Pen supporters in this thread? I'm afraid to look. Most of them aren't really that bad. They are just conservative people who are pissed by the recent scandals, the lies and all the political bs. The sociology of the party is also fairly complex and there are several different tendencies, it is not like 18% of the population are nazi wannabes lol. Anyway they can't be really worse than all the resentful lefties. | ||
|
Macpo
453 Posts
On May 07 2012 17:46 Boblion wrote: Most of them aren't really that bad. They are just conservative people who are pissed by the recent scandals, the lies and all the political bs. The sociology of the party is also fairly complex and there are several different tendencies, it is not like 18% of the population are nazi wannabes lol. Anyway they can't be really worse than all the resentful lefties. Well, they still voted for a racist party, whose major claim is that "arabs" or "muslims" (they don't care too much about differences) are the main problem for the country. They are against the vote of foreigners at local elections, want to send them back to their country of origin. Let also note that Marine Le Pen recently went to a neo nazi celebration in Austria. More generally, they are in favor of death penalty, against abortion, want to give police much more power (for instance giving them the presumption of legitimate defense whenever they killed someone) etc. etc. Regarding the relations with "conservative right", we can underline the fact that this "conservative right" has itself become more and more racist. Previous Ministre de l'Intérieur (Police Secretary more or less) was found guilty of racist insults by justice. More generally, the whole Sarkozy campaign was very rightist, targetting far right voters. I am not sure what it means to be "bad"; but at least, we have to keep in mind that they are racist and authoritarian. | ||
|
ContrailNZ
New Zealand306 Posts
Sarkozy lowered tax cuts to the rich, but couldn't counter this with cuts to public service entitlements? Bad idea exaggerated. The problem I see with Hollande from what I have read is I do not see how a retirement age of 60 can be economically viable? France is a relatively wealthy country, but everywhere else the retirement age is higher and increasing more. 60 might have been okay when people lived much harder (physical) lives. Plus I'm sure retirement incomes are being paid for many years more now then they have previously due to increased life expectancy. Does France not have a "baby boomer"generation born in the 50's which are going to reach retirement age at once very soon? This is a VERY expensive policy at a time of high debt risk. Imagine if Greece / Spain declare bankruptcy and France has to forgo all the money lent to them? Also, the 75% tax rate. From what I've seen very few people actually get hit by this as it kicks in so high, and those that do are very good at avoiding taxes. I'm not sure it will bring in the claimed money and there are a million ways to avoid it I'm sure. This can be demonstrated by Ireland. They introduce insanely low tax rates and business flowed in and the economy boomed (until the euro disaster). Doesn't this demonstrate how willing people / company's are to avoid higher taxes. | ||
|
Boblion
France8043 Posts
On May 07 2012 18:05 Macpo wrote: Well, they still voted for a racist party, whose major claim is that "arabs" or "muslims" (they don't care too much about differences) are the main problem for the country. They are against the vote of foreigners at local elections, want to send them back to their country of origin. Let also note that Marine Le Pen recently went to a neo nazi celebration in Austria. More generally, they are in favor of death penalty, against abortion, want to give police much more power (for instance giving them the presumption of legitimate defense whenever they killed someone) etc. etc. Regarding the relations with "conservative right", we can underline the fact that this "conservative right" has itself become more and more racist. Previous Ministre de l'Intérieur (Police Secretary more or less) was found guilty of racist insults by justice. More generally, the whole Sarkozy campaign was very rightist, targetting far right voters. I am not sure what it means to be "bad"; but at least, we have to keep in mind that they are racist and authoritarian. You have to use your words properly. Wanting to have a stricter immigration policy doesn't make you a "racist". Same thing if you don't want foreigners to vote. I mean there are many countries with stricter immigration laws than France lol. The whole "neo nazi celebration" in Austria is pretty much bullshit since neo nazi parties are BANNED in Austria ( and pretty much everywhere in Europe ). But yea your whole post is like "boo hoo right is bad, boo hoo racist, boo hoo neo nazi". Typical lefty lol. This ridiculous stigmatization also explains why some people vote for the FN. When you call people nazis all the time just because they have different values well you can't really expect them to vote for you. | ||
|
WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
| ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France7913 Posts
On May 07 2012 18:18 Boblion wrote: You have to use your words properly. Wanting to have a stricter immigration policy doesn't make you a "racist". Same thing if you don't want foreigners to vote. I mean there are many countries with stricter immigration laws than France lol. The whole "neo nazi celebration" in Austria is pretty much bullshit since neo nazi parties are BANNED in Austria ( and pretty much everywhere in Europe ). But yea your whole post is like "boo hoo right is bad, boo hoo racist, boo hoo neo nazi". Typical lefty lol. This ridiculous stigmatization also explains why some people vote for the FN. When you call people nazis all the time just because they have different values well you can't really expect them to vote for you. The fact that people still doubt that Le Pen and the FN are racist really puzzles me. I don't know if it is better to blame ignorance? Saying that France is unnder Muslim invasion and that all our problem come from immigration is a racist point of view, that's pretty simple. Saying that our civilization is superior is racist. Saying that black men didn't enter history is racist. FN is succesfull because instead of explaning people how much bullshit this paranoid xenophobic discourse is, right (and left) wing has been saying for years "They ask the right questions" or "If people are worried about this we have to care and not ignore them". There is no debate anymore. Le Pen says immigration is a problem against all evidences, since it is proven immigration is a chance, and instead of fighting her ideas, everybody follows. Le Pen says that Islam is a problem in France and the only one who has the balls to say that this is a lie is Melenchon. Except for a few idiots, there is no problem with Islam in itself. Sarkozy has a huge responsability. His cowardice towards the FN has been unbelievable. Anyway. Very very good article in the New York Times by Krugman. He says exactly what I have been thinking: this election matters because it breaks the Merkozy axis that leads Europe into the recession / rigor / recession / rigor infernal spiral. And that is a really really really good news. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/07/opinion/krugman-those-revolting-europeans.html?_r=1&hp | ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France7913 Posts
On May 07 2012 18:23 WhiteDog wrote: All Hollande's economic program has been made with the participation of Thomas Picketti and Camille Landais, serious french economist. I just don't understand why people think nothing is serious about his point of view. Hollande is himself a good economist. His program is of course very serious. But well, apparently, people have swallowed that seriousness = wild spending cuts. That's sad, but we don't have more imagination than that anymore. | ||
|
Macpo
453 Posts
On May 07 2012 18:18 Boblion wrote: You have to use your words properly. Wanting to have a stricter immigration policy doesn't make you a "racist". Same thing if you don't want foreigners to vote. I mean there are many countries with stricter immigration laws than France lol. The whole "neo nazi celebration" in Austria is pretty much bullshit since neo nazi parties are BANNED in Austria ( and pretty much everywhere in Europe ). But yea your whole post is like "boo hoo right is bad, boo hoo racist, boo hoo neo nazi". Typical lefty lol. Well let's use words properly. What is a "racist" position? It is a position based on race. This includes racial hatred; but more generally racial fear, contempt; More generally, the real or imagined division of society based on races. Now, I think you cannot understand such current focus on foreigners in French politics, which are a very minor (migrants over a year represent about 0,2 % of the population...) , and amongst the weakest part of society, without relating it to its racist dimension. This is true about vote of non european foreigners to local elections: it is just a fantasy to believe that France is going to collapse if such minor change happens (let's note that european foreigners already vote to these elections). It is also true about migrations: have you one second considered what the concrete consequences of such a thing would be? Demographically and economically speaking that would be a disaster, especially nowadays: collapse of consumption, demographic decline, not to mention that they usually do the jobs no one wants (go wake up at 6 in the morning in the subway in Paris, you will understand). and what about the whole Hallal controversy created by Marine Le Pen, on how the whole parisian region would eat nothing but "Hallal" food? What is the rationale behind this (beyond the fact that it's just not true)? if you are not muslim, you shouldn't believe that hallal treatment changes anything to food. Do you feel you will be contaminated by such food?? or what? Basically, we have irrational feelings of fear and anger against foreigners. Of course, people are still hiding a bit, and Marine Le Pen is clever enough to not say openly their whole politics; but the inherent, semi-hidden, powerful feeling is there: foreigners are the problem, because they are not like us and they threaten us... | ||
|
Boblion
France8043 Posts
On May 07 2012 18:23 WhiteDog wrote: All Hollande's economic program has been made with the participation of Thomas Picketti and Camille Landais, serious french economist. I just don't understand why people think nothing is serious about his point of view. Serious economist is an oxymoron, you mean failed mathematician. | ||
|
WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On May 07 2012 18:34 Boblion wrote: Serious economist is an oxymoron, you mean failed mathematician. LoL, yeah true. Picketti & Landais are more like post keynesians economist who work a lot on taxs. They were the first to show the rise of inequalities in France (in an economic point of view, because everybody already knew it). | ||
|
ReboundEU
508 Posts
 | ||
|
ArnaudF
France993 Posts
| ||
|
ulan-bat
China403 Posts
On May 07 2012 16:15 Friedrich Nietzsche wrote: I'm sorry I have to ask, is this you? Nein, this picture is from some news website. It was taken in Rennes. | ||
|
Macpo
453 Posts
On May 07 2012 19:03 ArnaudF wrote: All I see is that he's for homosexual marriage and to give to right to vote to foreign people for local elections. And that makes me sick. why? | ||
|
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On May 07 2012 19:03 ArnaudF wrote: All I see is that he's for homosexual marriage and to give to right to vote to foreign people for local elections. And that makes me sick. You're one broad-minded fellow, aren't you? | ||
|
Acertos
France852 Posts
| ||
|
Acertos
France852 Posts
| ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France7913 Posts
On May 07 2012 17:46 Boblion wrote: Most of them aren't really that bad. They are just conservative people who are pissed by the recent scandals, the lies and all the political bs. The sociology of the party is also fairly complex and there are several different tendencies, it is not like 18% of the population are nazi wannabes lol. Anyway they can't be really worse than all the resentful lefties. No offense but you are the one who sound resentful. | ||
| ||
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War League of Legends Counter-Strike Super Smash Bros Heroes of the Storm Other Games |
|
Sparkling Tuna Cup
BSL Team Wars
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
Dewalt vs kogeT
JDConan vs Tarson
RaNgeD vs DragOn
StRyKeR vs Bonyth
Aeternum vs Hejek
IPSL
DragOn vs Fear
Radley vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
Map Test Tournament
PiGosaur Monday
Map Test Tournament
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
The PondCast
Map Test Tournament
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/znd2Z.jpg)
