|
On May 07 2012 07:50 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 07:28 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 07:15 aksfjh wrote:On May 07 2012 07:09 Boblion wrote:On May 07 2012 07:05 aksfjh wrote:On May 07 2012 07:01 Mosquitow wrote:On May 07 2012 06:06 Acertos wrote:XD ragnarork, y purchasing power has decreased since 30 yrs i know that but adding teacher and reducing taxes will stop this decrease (eventually u will say no, if no i can't help you), how do u want a country to sell things to their people if they just have the money to survive, its just a simple reflection. And ur ignorance must be big because u don't know that 35 students for 1 teacher is impossible to handle. Ur loved sarko deleted history in the final yr of ES and S branch of high scholl because of that policy of deleting teacher job. Now in my year i will have to study a 2yrs program in 1yr and pass the exam. U mustn't know too that a lot of schools are getting replacement on the net. And u say there is too much teacher, this is completely retarded, read this u will see that UMP is lying http://chezluc.blogspot.com/2008/04/en-france-il-y-11-lves-par-professeur.htmlThen don't try to compare France to Germany, Germany is different from every country of Europe because it has an industry of cars wich make millions so there is no point in that. And again the politic of Greece was made by Merckel and Sarkosy, it wasn't their own choice. Plus the fall of Greece was due to speculations and the manuveuring of the beloved bank goldman sachs, i supose u dont know anything about that so i wont blame you. Actually, teacher don't demand less pupils per class but more means overall for education. As a future teacher myself, I'd rather the teaching job was promoted rather than simply adding more teachers. Some other countries in Europe have even more pupils per class and do very well. Also, there is a lack of teachers so I don't know where Hollande plans to find his 60 000 teachers.... You find them in the tens of thousands of teachers laid off over the past 4 years. Nobody got laid off lol. http://wlc.drake.edu/wordpress/french/2011/09/30/teachers-strike-in-france/I don't know which Google you're using, but there seems to be quite a few articles about teach strikes in France over jobs cut in education. Teachers strikes in France are fairly common, anyway it is not about jobs cut or firing teachers it is about spending/hiring less, which is something quite different because it is extremly hard to fire a civil servant in France. Also i use French google, newspapers, radio and TV. On May 07 2012 07:27 aksfjh wrote:On May 07 2012 07:18 Gapato wrote:Dude, you can cut jobs without laying off people when you're talking thousands of employees. All you have to do is not replacing people retiring. That's precisely what happened. So, when you don't replace them, does that magically make those seeking the teaching profession find alternate careers and drastically alter the supply of teachers in the nation? Generally, it's a giant revolving door, where there are new hires for those retiring. I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of teachers who didn't get to replace those retiring who are still looking for work. Actually to be a teacher in France you have to pass a competitive examination, so basicly if you want to hire less people you just make the selection harder. In France you become a teacher when you have "earned" your qualification (for the rest of your life). But that should still mean that hiring 60k teachers isn't as hard as the original user speculated. That's my ultimate point, that there isn't some shortage of teachers because people aren't willing to be teachers.
It is never hard to find potential teachers when you have an high unemployment rate.
However it is expensive to pay them and you have to know if they will be effective. Also hiring 60K teachers means that the competitive examinations will be less selective.
|
On May 07 2012 06:20 kamikami wrote:
But actually, the process for an engineer to immigrate in France is more complicated and has more risks than the process of an uneducated guy who tricks a stupid French girl to marry him (marriage = obtain automatically the nationality after some time).
Everybody can immigrate to France. Getting a job in the industry mostly relies on technical skills and formation as well as the capacity to speak french. Also you become french through marriage and it applies immediately if requested.
On May 07 2012 07:39 CajunMan wrote:
Good luck with the Socialism guys! I'm sure with a 75% tax all the remotely wealthy people will stick around for sure!
I seriously feel sorry for your country its like ya'll are now circling a drain I will be watching very closely. Good Luck.
I feel sorry for your lack of education. Still I don't come in your presidential election thread and say stupid stuff with no arguments to back up my claims ...
|
On May 07 2012 07:24 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 07:15 Derez wrote:On May 07 2012 07:05 aksfjh wrote:On May 07 2012 07:01 Mosquitow wrote:On May 07 2012 06:06 Acertos wrote:XD ragnarork, y purchasing power has decreased since 30 yrs i know that but adding teacher and reducing taxes will stop this decrease (eventually u will say no, if no i can't help you), how do u want a country to sell things to their people if they just have the money to survive, its just a simple reflection. And ur ignorance must be big because u don't know that 35 students for 1 teacher is impossible to handle. Ur loved sarko deleted history in the final yr of ES and S branch of high scholl because of that policy of deleting teacher job. Now in my year i will have to study a 2yrs program in 1yr and pass the exam. U mustn't know too that a lot of schools are getting replacement on the net. And u say there is too much teacher, this is completely retarded, read this u will see that UMP is lying http://chezluc.blogspot.com/2008/04/en-france-il-y-11-lves-par-professeur.htmlThen don't try to compare France to Germany, Germany is different from every country of Europe because it has an industry of cars wich make millions so there is no point in that. And again the politic of Greece was made by Merckel and Sarkosy, it wasn't their own choice. Plus the fall of Greece was due to speculations and the manuveuring of the beloved bank goldman sachs, i supose u dont know anything about that so i wont blame you. Actually, teacher don't demand less pupils per class but more means overall for education. As a future teacher myself, I'd rather the teaching job was promoted rather than simply adding more teachers. Some other countries in Europe have even more pupils per class and do very well. Also, there is a lack of teachers so I don't know where Hollande plans to find his 60 000 teachers.... You find them in the tens of thousands of teachers laid off over the past 4 years. French civil servants are heavily entrenched, so I'd assume the people that got laid off were laid off for good reasons. I'm not a Sarkozy fan, and I'm kinda happy he's gone, but the French welfare state has always known excesses that simply can't be maintained on the long run. A retirement age at 60 simply isn't feasible anymore, you can't ask the next generation to pay a much larger portion of their income to provide for a much larger proportion of seniors. Those promoting solidarity (and the left overall) in Europe are mostly indebted to their babyboomer voting blocs, and the equality they speak of at times sounds like sucking every last cent out of the system before they die. Younger voters get screwed over constantly, which is why Hollande scares me too. I'm just hoping his campaign rethoric was overblown and that has actual policies will be fairer on inter-generational grounds. Honestly, I don't like the idea of lowering the retirement age in this current society either, but my only point was that teachers were being "laid off." You can quable over the terminology on whether they were forced into retirement or forced to take part-time positions, but it's a lot closer to the truth than, "There is a great shortage of teachers!" There are a lot of things I'm wary about with Hollande (in regards to EU and this side of the pond). Mainly, the policies that try to fund obvious unneccessary spending on certain groups at the extreme expense of others, like the retirement age stuff. However, his position on the economy as a whole are tremendously better than the austerity hawks running rampant through EU, pawning virtually every country off for the benefit of Germany and a few others.
I agree almost entirely, I just meant to say that cuts in the french public sector don't have to be judged negatively. Even in the realm of teachers, promises made by Hollande seem to reflect French babyboomer opinion: 'hire my friends back!'. I have no issues with Hollande's supposed ideological platform, I just think its being applied inconsitently.
As someone under 30, being left-leaning myself, none of these left wing candidates appeal to me. Labor (or, more generally, the left) in europe is squandering its credibility and ideological consistency when it comes to young people (under 50) for electoral gains. It's a problem in the US too, just much smaller because babyboomers don't hold as much electoral power.
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/znd2Z.jpg)
Can't be sad to see Sarkozy go.
Now about Hollande, a ton of economists said his program was ok and Merkel seems pleased. Not that bad.
|
Pun of the day award goes to a friend of mine :
"Bienvenue pour 5ans de dur labeur sur le Hollandais volant" with Pirates of the Carribean soundtrack :p
"Welcome to 5 years of hard work aboard the Flying Dutchman" ^.^
Will be hard, can hardly be worse than the previous 5.
About the teachers problem : since the numbers in recruitment were harshly reduced, many people, and by many I mean I already know 3/4 of them, put their studies on hold, but still want to be teachers. Reopen the slots, you'll see those people apply. Of course it won't be next year, but they are here. And yes, we lack teachers in France. We barely have replacements so when teachers are on leave, you often have weeks without a certain lesson, especially in university.
And about the public sector changes in the last few years, they were so atrociously thought out that many things are barely working anymore, it's especially the case of the army and the police. I know, I work there. It's a fucking organisational nightmare, nothing is where it should, human resources got butchered.
|
This seems to be a pretty important election for France and for Europe. I hope the people have made the right choice, or at least a well-informed one.
|
Oh finally! Sarkozy is gone. I am a happy man.
But I hope the Socialist Party does not screw up like the one in Greece.
|
People shouldn't underestimate Merkel and i'm saying that as a german who is very critical of her. She's a very pragmatic person and already before the french election she said that ofcourse growth should be on the agenda of the EU too (which, to her defense she always said). She is a very smart, analytic person but here style is more rational then driven by emotions (which is why some people think that she is cold-blooded). She will come along with Holland better then many people think she will - probably even better then with Sarkozy. The main reason for the german conservatives very strong claim on austerity is because many right-wings have the (mostly wrong) feeling that the euro is just there to make germany pay and bleed for the approval of the reunification of east and west germany (and also our shameful past). They don't realise that germany profited from the euro more then most other countries and they never will.
German foreign policy always had the tendency although being the biggest country and largest EU supporter in sense of money to try to not brag with that and also have a low voice. Because of our past and the fear of many people what a big unificated germany could do (again). This changed during the crisis since there obviously was some demand of leadership but this would have never worked without a good german-french relationship - the most important thing of german foreign policy. There is not a single politician in any democratic party in germany that would disagree on the fact that the french-german friendship is the most important achievement in our history. But some germans are sick of being the lowest voice and just have to pay and so they support merkels cause. Thats for those people who are quick with passing judgements against ze germanz. We ourselves don't feel comfortable with that role. There is ALOT of discussion in germany that we should lower our voice again. But after all we hope that people in the other countries realize that these fears are for nothing.
This is what will happen: on the 15.5. Hollande will travel to Berlin and soon after that day both will agree on a plan to push growth all over europe. Both will sell this agreement as a great victory to their people but Hollande will also realize (or will be teached by the markets) that the times of endless spending and pumping economy with debt are over (he probably already has considering his latest statements). After all its the debt that made us so depended on the financial industry and destroys our democracys.
Well after all that talk i raise my glass of french rosé. I hope your new and next president will bring only good for you and i will try to remember you that what ever happens in politics: our friendship shall always prevail. <3 and vive la France! 
|
On May 07 2012 08:02 Otolia wrote:
I feel sorry for your lack of education. Still I don't come in your presidential election thread and say stupid stuff with no arguments to back up my claims ...
Feel free to tell me which part lack substance. No need for attacks on people especially if your not going to argue opposite just insult.
|
Welcome in the brand new socialist France my dear friends.
![[image loading]](http://www.bladi.net/forum/attachments/33196d1336346162-francois-hollande-elu-president-republique-francaise)
+ Show Spoiler +1830 : date of the conquest and colonization of Algeria
|
|
|
On May 07 2012 08:48 ulan-bat wrote:Can't be sad to see Sarkozy go. Now about Hollande, a ton of economists said his program was ok and Merkel seems pleased. Not that bad.
I'm sorry I have to ask, is this you?
|
On May 07 2012 15:54 SiroKO wrote:Welcome in the brand new socialist France my dear friends. + Show Spoiler +1830 : date of the conquest and colonization of Algeria
It hurts too see different people right? But guess what, they have the right to vote, they are French citizens and are very welcome in France (much more than you, actually,who do not respect French political principles of equality and fraternity); they work here, live here, pay their taxes here, get married and have their children here, no matter what you think. You have to accept that France is not a white nation; just a nation of people who live together, be they black, white, yellow, whatever. That will not disappear. You can imagine all the disasters you want, the truth is soon we won't even remember they are coming from elsewhere, as did polish or italians in the beginning of the century, and all others before.
In this regard, I am glad to see the victory of François Holland.
|
Wait did I read it right in the news that this guy wants to reduce the pension age to 60 while everyone else is moving it up to 66/67 because it's getting impossible to pay for soon?
|
On May 07 2012 07:39 CajunMan wrote:
Good luck with the Socialism guys! I'm sure with a 75% tax all the remotely wealthy people will stick around for sure!
I seriously feel sorry for your country its like ya'll are now circling a drain I will be watching very closely. Good Luck.
According to Diamond and Seaz (Diamond has a Nobel Prize in Economics), we should tax the rich to maximize the revenue government gets from them: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303425504577353843997820160.html
Their analysis shows that revenue is maximized at about a 50-70% tax rate (a bit lower than 75%) on the rich. The reason why it's 70% and not 100%, is because it takes into account people working less due to being discouraged by high taxes, people leaving because of high taxes, etc, i.e. all your complaints have already been factored into this 70% tax rate.
The full paper is here: http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.25.4.165
|
On May 07 2012 16:28 Logros wrote:
Wait did I read it right in the news that this guy wants to reduce the pension age to 60 while everyone else is moving it up to 66/67 because it's getting impossible to pay for soon?
For people who have done 42 years of work (as in started to work full-time at 18 years old)
On May 07 2012 11:40 CajunMan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 08:02 Otolia wrote:
I feel sorry for your lack of education. Still I don't come in your presidential election thread and say stupid stuff with no arguments to back up my claims ... Feel free to tell me which part lack substance. No need for attacks on people especially if your not going to argue opposite just insult.
Don't play the victim here because your post reeks of misinformation and contempt. You have obviously been brought up in the fear of socialism even though you don't understand what it means nowadays. Furthermore taxing obscenely rich people isn't going to make them flee, only those who are more interested in money than humanity. And the French clearly voted against this attitude. At last you use the expression "circling a drain" which is probably a quote from the economist. A newspaper who is promoting liberalism in every form possible and has done at least once a year an article on why France will be in a bad shape soon.
As such I feel entitled to tell you to take your contempt elsewhere where it won't be offensive to democracy.
On May 07 2012 07:39 CajunMan wrote:
Good luck with the Socialism guys! I'm sure with a 75% tax all the remotely wealthy people will stick around for sure!
I seriously feel sorry for your country its like ya'll are now circling a drain I will be watching very closely. Good Luck.
|
On May 07 2012 16:23 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 15:54 SiroKO wrote:Welcome in the brand new socialist France my dear friends. + Show Spoiler +1830 : date of the conquest and colonization of Algeria It hurts too see different people right? But guess what, they have the right to vote, they are French citizens and are very welcome in France (much more than you, actually,who do not respect French political principles of equality and fraternity); they work here, live here, pay their taxes here, get married and have their children here, no matter what you think. You have to accept that France is not a white nation; just a nation of people who live together, be they black, white, yellow, whatever. That will not disappear. You can imagine all the disasters you want, the truth is soon we won't even remember they are coming from elsewhere, as did polish or italians in the beginning of the century, and all others before. In this regard, I am glad to see the victory of François Holland.
I have to admit I was quite shocked at yesterday's footage on TV, barely one or two french flags in the croud in a sea of red flags, CGT flags, communist flags, foreign flags...
Next 5 years are going to be difficult and I hope President Hollande will know to take the right decisions to lead France in the right direction. Best of luck to him.
|
On May 07 2012 16:51 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 16:28 Logros wrote:
Wait did I read it right in the news that this guy wants to reduce the pension age to 60 while everyone else is moving it up to 66/67 because it's getting impossible to pay for soon? For people who have done 42 years of work (as in started to work full-time at 18 years old) Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 11:40 CajunMan wrote:On May 07 2012 08:02 Otolia wrote:
I feel sorry for your lack of education. Still I don't come in your presidential election thread and say stupid stuff with no arguments to back up my claims ... Feel free to tell me which part lack substance. No need for attacks on people especially if your not going to argue opposite just insult. Don't play the victim here because your post reeks of misinformation and contempt. You have obviously been brought up in the fear of socialism even though you don't understand what it means nowadays. Furthermore taxing obscenely rich people isn't going to make them flee, only those who are more interested in money than humanity. And the French clearly voted against this attitude. At last you use the expression "circling a drain" which is probably a quote from the economist. A newspaper who is promoting liberalism in every form possible and has done at least once a year an article on why France will be in a bad shape soon. As such I feel entitled to tell you to take your contempt elsewhere where it won't be offensive to democracy. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 07:39 CajunMan wrote:
Good luck with the Socialism guys! I'm sure with a 75% tax all the remotely wealthy people will stick around for sure!
I seriously feel sorry for your country its like ya'll are now circling a drain I will be watching very closely. Good Luck.
To be honest, rich people don't stay because they are humane, but rather the cost and burden of leaving is greater than the burden of the tax rate. If you made a ton of money, you can essentially live in your dream location with an approximation of your dream life, which usually doesn't factor in how much income you can keep after some absurdly high cutoff point. It's the same reason why a lot of people choose to continue to live in naturally dangerous and/or politcally unstable places. It's home.
|
On May 07 2012 16:42 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 07:39 CajunMan wrote:
Good luck with the Socialism guys! I'm sure with a 75% tax all the remotely wealthy people will stick around for sure!
I seriously feel sorry for your country its like ya'll are now circling a drain I will be watching very closely. Good Luck. According to Diamond and Seaz (Diamond has a Nobel Prize in Economics), we should tax the rich to maximize the revenue government gets from them: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303425504577353843997820160.htmlTheir analysis shows that revenue is maximized at about a 50-70% tax rate (a bit lower than 75%) on the rich. The reason why it's 70% and not 100%, is because it takes into account people working less due to being discouraged by high taxes, people leaving because of high taxes, etc, i.e. all your complaints have already been factored into this 70% tax rate. The full paper is here: http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.25.4.165
An interesting tidbit of related information: When I was looking over the effectiveness of the U.S. stimulus package ($787 billion) and it's individual pieces, the economic benefit of the tax breaks (at all levels) came out to equal or less than the cost, while the spending came out to 1.5+ times the cost.
|
I honestly want to kiss France on the cheek.
Were there any Le Pen supporters in this thread? I'm afraid to look.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
