|
On May 07 2012 05:38 Acertos wrote:
75% taxes for the extend of money u gain after 1million (if u gain over 100 000 euros a month, the amount above that is taxed to 75%)) and its to pay 80000 teacher jobs that Sarkosy deleted in 5 years ... People just don't know what they are talking about and shouldn't talk. Sarkosy was one of the worst corrupted president we ever had. Look how Greece is now, its because of the polotic of taxes, the politic of austerity the same Sarkosy aplied. The debt will grow bigger with Hollande but the purchasing power of the people too. U shouldn't be afraid of what's coming, Hollande is the most upright and truthful president we will have.
Except when the rich people see this tax get put in place they will just move to England or somewhere or else, and now Hollande will be taxing 0/next to nothing from them. And then maybe he'll have to cut even more teachers then Sarkozy?
|
Please stop hammering/glorifying austerity/spending as our doom/saviour, this is f**king pointless, all countries are different and honestly no one as a f**king clue what the good balance is.
|
On May 07 2012 05:38 Acertos wrote:
75% taxes for the extend of money u gain after 1million (if u gain over 100 000 euros a month, the amount above that is taxed to 75%)) and its to pay 80000 teacher jobs that Sarkosy deleted in 5 years ... People just don't know what they are talking about and shouldn't talk. Sarkosy was one of the worst corrupted president we ever had. Look how Greece is now, its because of the polotic of taxes, the politic of austerity the same Sarkosy aplied. The debt will grow bigger with Hollande but the purchasing power of the people too. U shouldn't be afraid of what's coming, Hollande is the most upright and truthful president we will have.
yeah, I'm not a Holland's fan neitheir Sarko's but apply your advice to yourself. You shouldn't talk aswell
|
On May 07 2012 05:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
It could be worse, you could have an American Political system that lasts much longer. Besides you live next to Germany the most awesome place in the world.
Ah, the old American "I oppose everything because my opponent proposed it."
|
On May 07 2012 06:03 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
It could be worse, you could have an American Political system that lasts much longer. Besides you live next to Germany the most awesome place in the world. Ah, the old American "I oppose everything because my opponent proposed it."
And also the lack of tolerance of socialism/libertarianism/other fringe movements.
|
XD ragnarork, y purchasing power has decreased since 30 yrs i know that but adding teacher and reducing taxes will stop this decrease (eventually u will say no, if no i can't help you), how do u want a country to sell things to their people if they just have the money to survive, its just a simple reflection.
And ur ignorance must be big because u don't know that 35 students for 1 teacher is impossible to handle. Ur loved sarko deleted history in the final yr of ES and S branch of high scholl because of that policy of deleting teacher job. Now in my year i will have to study a 2yrs program in 1yr and pass the exam. U mustn't know too that a lot of schools are getting replacement on the net. And u say there is too much teacher, this is completely retarded, read this u will see that UMP is lying http://chezluc.blogspot.com/2008/04/en-france-il-y-11-lves-par-professeur.html
Then don't try to compare France to Germany, Germany is different from every country of Europe because it has an industry of cars wich make millions so there is no point in that. And again the politic of Greece was made by Merckel and Sarkosy, it wasn't their own choice. Plus the fall of Greece was due to speculations and the manuveuring of the beloved bank goldman sachs, i supose u dont know anything about that so i wont blame you.
|
Rich people arent as selfish as u think they are, plus they will still get taxed if they move out from France. Also i like politic, my job will be about that (journalist would be my dream)
|
On May 07 2012 05:38 Acertos wrote:
75% taxes for the extend of money u gain after 1million (if u gain over 100 000 euros a month, the amount above that is taxed to 75%)) and its to pay 80000 teacher jobs that Sarkosy deleted in 5 years ... People just don't know what they are talking about and shouldn't talk. Sarkosy was one of the worst corrupted president we ever had. Look how Greece is now, its because of the polotic of taxes, the politic of austerity the same Sarkosy aplied. The debt will grow bigger with Hollande but the purchasing power of the people too. U shouldn't be afraid of what's coming, Hollande is the most upright and truthful president we will have.
Dont believe everything you read here...
He is going to create 60k more jobs in schools, not only teachers are affected. However it will be fun to see how the few people from CAC40 will pay all thoose people. Hollande is for me an hypocrite, saying he hates the rich, but earning 30k a month himself.
|
On May 07 2012 05:16 Ragnarork wrote:
While it's true that there may have been some racists people voting for Marion Le Pen (and that's her true name, which law normally should force her to use), she isn't racist.
The point with this party is that they want to do something about the "practical" aspect of immigration, that is to say, while we have unemployment, and housing problems, we welcome (and regularize) a lot of immigrant each year, and they disagree with that.
I'm not racist, and still i wonder why we permit so much arrivals in France since we can't manage to get everyone ok for now (talking about "old" immigrants and french people).
I didn't vote for her, but though i don't think we should call her racist.
I think the French immigration system is pretty fucked up. There are immigrants that France actually need like the engineers and recherchers (Ex : France only forms 30000 engineers each year while we need 40000 to fill all vacant posts). Those people pay high tax, doesn't take jobs of Frenchs ( we don't have enough of them anyway), and the money they create can cover for the unemployed Frenchs.
But actually, the process for an engineer to immigrate in France is more complicated and has more risks than the process of an uneducated guy who tricks a stupid French girl to marry him (marriage = obtain automatically the nationality after some time).
The problem with the FN is that they will give the same treatment to all immigrants ( 0 immigration) and that will only hurt. Seriously 70% of our doctorate thesis are being done by foreign researchers, many important public and private projects are lead by foreign engineers, what will the FN do ? Send them all to their country ?
|
On May 07 2012 06:06 Acertos wrote:
And again the politic of Greece was made by Merckel and Sarkosy, it wasn't their own choice. Plus the fall of Greece was due to speculations and the manuveuring of the beloved bank goldman sachs, i supose u dont know anything about that so i wont blame you.
Right there, you just shot yourself in the foot with a bazooka.
The policies forced onto Greece to try to get it out of its shit is one ---debatable--- thing, but it is corruption and mismanagement alone that put it a bad position in the first place. In fact Europe has been too easy on Greece in the previous years, trusting financial reports that were phony.
|
On May 07 2012 06:21 Gapato wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 06:06 Acertos wrote:
And again the politic of Greece was made by Merckel and Sarkosy, it wasn't their own choice. Plus the fall of Greece was due to speculations and the manuveuring of the beloved bank goldman sachs, i supose u dont know anything about that so i wont blame you. Right there, you just shot yourself in the foot with a bazooka. The policies forced onto Greece to try to get it out of its shit is one ---debatable--- thing, but it is corruption and mismanagement alone that put it a bad position in the first place. In fact Europe has been too easy on Greece in the previous years, trusting financial reports that were phony.
True story, if you payed 500€ volontary in greece, the gov didnt care if you payed taxes or not. Plus they cheated to get in the euro zone, so they can only blame themselves. Ok, Goldman Sachs made 500milion because of Greece, but thats their problem...
|
On May 07 2012 05:44 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:38 Acertos wrote:
75% taxes for the extend of money u gain after 1million (if u gain over 100 000 euros a month, the amount above that is taxed to 75%)) and its to pay 80000 teacher jobs that Sarkosy deleted in 5 years ... People just don't know what they are talking about and shouldn't talk. Sarkosy was one of the worst corrupted president we ever had. Look how Greece is now, its because of the polotic of taxes, the politic of austerity the same Sarkosy aplied. The debt will grow bigger with Hollande but the purchasing power of the people too. U shouldn't be afraid of what's coming, Hollande is the most upright and truthful president we will have. If you read stats, you would have seen that purchasing power has all but decreased in the past 30 years (i think only once, in fact, around the 1980 if i remember well). It's growth may have vary, but it was always growing. Then, the teacher jobs Sarkozy has removed isn't the problem. The assignement of the thousands of teacher who do only replacement 1 week per year is the real problem. We have too much teachers, and they aren't in the place where they should be. And finally, Greece is here because of its Government, which was a left wing one. And austerity is exactly what Germany has done for years now (and a very strict one, i don't know if some german people could bring some precisions) and Germany is the first economy of Europe now, far far away from the Greece situation...
Hmn. Greece has had prime ministers from:
81-89 center-left government "PASOK"
90-93 center-right government "New Democracy"
93-04 center-left government "PASOK"
04-09 center-rigt government "New Democracy"
09-11 center-left government "PASOK"
While dominated by left-leaning PASOK, the true standout is the New Democracy government several years before and while the crisis started. To blame the situation on left wing in Greece does not seem very well supported by facts and claiming the opposite is also speculative. Trueth is probably that both sides are at fault. Using any blamegame on the ideologies seems completely unsupported.
The trueth is more likely that Greece has had a very bad political system with too much corruption and too much laissez-faire (very lax enforcement of existing laws).
Germany is a lot more complicated politically since it does not have 2 parties taking up ~80% of the parliament. There are at the same time so many other differences between the countries to really obscure the situation. Basically Merkel has ruled in Germany from years before the crisis to present day.
If you want to point to a country in europe doing better than Germany, it is undeniably Norway and they have had Stoltenberg basically the same period as Merkel. He is a center-left politician...
Comparing France to Greece is a little absurd. Comparing Greece to Germany and Norway is extremely absurd. In the end, France is France and that is how is will continue.
The problems of France has to do with a steady increase in debt for many years as you point out. The effects of the reforms supported by Hollande could be catastrophic, but there is no way to actually know beforehand. However, I do think he will have to turn 180 on a lot of the issues when he has to deal with EU and Merkel in particular.
Uncertainty about the effects of the reforms proposed and matching them with international political reality should at least count towards an expectance of less drastic effects.
|
The politic of greece im talking about is the politic right now and its just retarded like the one put in place in the 2000's, 1990's
U think that putting more taxes is the solution? 1/4 of the people there have no jobs, u think they will be able to recover?
No they should have tried to use their influence with the banks and buy time for Greece to recover... Now its totally over for them, it will surely be a social war.
|
On May 07 2012 05:38 Acertos wrote:
Sarkosy was one of the worst corrupted president we ever had.
Do you know how ridiculous you sound ?
|
Perhaps for you, read some books, look more at the channel "Arte" on your tv.
|
Well I don't really watch TV, but when I do, it's usually Arte, great channel indeed. Though, I've never seen documentaries/report about how Sarkozy is corrupted.
Anyway, I don't really like talking about that (it never comes to any good), so I'll certainly not talk about that on a gaming forum.
Gratz for Hollande, hope he'll have success for the sake of the entire country 
|
On May 07 2012 06:30 Acertos wrote:
The politic of greece im talking about is the politic right now and its just retarded like the one put in place in the 2000's, 1990's
U think that putting more taxes is the solution? 1/4 of the people there have no jobs, u think they will be able to recover?
No they should have tried to use their influence with the banks and buy time for Greece to recover... Now its totally over for them, it will surely be a social war.
Dude, that's exactly what they did. 'Buying time' means money to borrow at not too high rates. This money comes from your pocket and mine, and from banks. Lenders have required Greece to reform/enforce austerity policies to recover (so the said moneny is not sent into a blackhole). This turned out to be bullshit. The other solution would have been default, which would have put alot of Europeans banks/investors in deep shit, which I do not think would have been much better.
To go back on track, as I said before, no one has a fucking clue. Blaming right/left wing is pointless. Austerity in southern Europe is coming to bite Germany in the ass, because its exports are taking a hit. This is exactly why some people over there are asking for a salary raise, to boost domestic demand, ie Germany might let austerity behind. This might work or fail, I don't know, but there's *no freaking magic formula*.
@Saumure : this is pretty orthogonal to my point, which was : Sarkozy might be involved in a lot of shit, but do not give him too much credit.
|
On May 07 2012 05:28 algue wrote:Inb4 bankrupt 
With my humble knowledge about econimics, it seems to me that socialist government had some not-so-bad (even good?) resutlts in France in the past...
I'll leave this thread here since politics is politics and I'm getting too old to debate with 20 years old people that abuse one liners to illustrate their ideas. I'll be very provocative and will dare to say that it's unfortunately a common attitude with rightist people (yeah i'm provocative, don't get too offended).
As I said before, I'm an entrepreneur with quite some experience with work. I've worked one year in the US in a big video game company located in San Francisco as an IT project manager, I also worked to the french science research center (CNRS) in France (it's considered public sector). Then I worked for a private company as manager/associate and now I've been running my own business for two years. I don't want to brag or anything but I think I know a little about the working condition in France.
Companies won't just leave France if taxes are too high. Maybe some big companies can afford to go elsewhere but I don't think it's that bad after all, cause I'm not really a fan of big companies in their way of managing people and such. There are in France a lot of business to make and that can't be ignored and i believe a lot in local business for instance. At least it's what i can tell in my activity and i'm working hard to get those businesses but they DO exist.
Honnestly speaking, I'm quite tired of great market with big companies that will dictate how things should work: being more and more competitive with people that can product things (which is in my opinion the core of any companies, and not the management) are not well "valued" by their managers. I still believe there is a way where you can provide quality and human contact with your customers and just not call center and 15-pages contract. That's my idea about business. And that is why a lot of manual workers are independant and do very well on their own. Cause you need confidence for certain things and a lot of big companies are losing their customer's confidence. At least that's my "niche" to get customers.
So I won't cry if some this so-called "very big" companies are planing to move elsewhere, good for them, good for me. Moving doesn't imply increasing you product quality.
To get back on topic, I don't have many expectations about politics but I think France is not "lost" (lol seriously?), and that we should trust ourselves more cause we're way more powerful as individuals than any government.
|
On May 07 2012 06:32 Lasbike wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:38 Acertos wrote:
Sarkosy was one of the worst corrupted president we ever had. Do you know how ridiculous you sound ?
Well who are more corrupted than Sarkozy?
Chirac? Probably...
Giscard with his Bokassa thingy? Maybe
But Sarkozy is still surrounded by a lot of shady stuff.
Congrats to Holland, i don't have a lot of faith in him and he seems a little wishy washy but he can't be as embarrassing as Sarkozy was.
|
On May 07 2012 06:30 Acertos wrote:
The politic of greece im talking about is the politic right now and its just retarded like the one put in place in the 2000's, 1990's
U think that putting more taxes is the solution? 1/4 of the people there have no jobs, u think they will be able to recover?
No they should have tried to use their influence with the banks and buy time for Greece to recover... Now its totally over for them, it will surely be a social war.
The policy right now is not ideologically singular. It is made by a non-elected government of "experts" and accepted by the parliament in Greece even though they go through hoops and holes to water it down.
I do not know enough about the specifics in Greece to know what "more taxes" would do. I believe that Greece have to get kicked out of EU and go bankrupt. Afterwards they have to get their political system restructured to actually enforce the laws nationally in "fair ways".
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
