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On April 23 2012 17:45 Agathon wrote:Funny to see that people who vote for the racist party live in places where...there's almost no french with foreign roots (like in my birth place) ^^ In the same time, in Paris, a multicultural city, Le Pen is barely at 5%  We've some work to do to stop this ignorance in our countryside, it's such a shame.
How sheltered can you be exactly? the place that votes the most for the "racist party" as you call it is historically the south-east region, and if you think "there's almost no french with foreign roots" there you are the ignorant one.
Keep ignoring immigration issues, and you will see the FN get stronger each election.
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On April 23 2012 18:28 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 18:12 kwizach wrote:On April 23 2012 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2012 09:55 kwizach wrote:On April 23 2012 09:43 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2012 09:06 kwizach wrote:On April 23 2012 07:32 Jago wrote:On April 23 2012 07:06 VyingsP wrote:
On the other hand, Hollande has some good measures, such as the ineligibility for 10 years of the politicians convinced with corruption, or the increase of the inheritance tax (which is only fair, if you consider that being rich should be deserved and not inherited). WTF? Inheritance tax is one of the most retarded taxations in existence. So if I work my ass off to build a nestegg for my wife and children, pay my taxes throughout the decades, then I die and then... they have to pay taxes AGAIN? Why should the money someone earns by inheritance be taxed at a lower rate than the money someone earns by working hard? Watch Anthony Weiner (I miss this guy SO much) completely demolish Megyn Kelly and Mike Huckabee on that precise topic: vs Megyn Kellyvs Mike HuckabeeThe fallacy that opponents of the estate tax use is the idea that the person who's dead has gotten taxed twice. That is NOT the case. That person got taxed once, when he earned his money. The person inheriting the money also gets taxed once, when receiving the money. Why should you have to pay in order to give your child something? That's a pretty twisted idea in its own. You're not paying anything, you're dead. Your child, however, pays a tax on his inheritance. He's getting money by doing nothing, there's really no reason why he should pay less in taxes than someone who works his ass off to earn the same amount. Whether or not you are dead is irrelevant. Even if the person is alive you still believe the government should get its cut, as you've already said. I don't think you're going to change my mind with semantics. We both know what the inheritance tax is. Saying that the government takes its cut the millisecond after it is in the child's hands instead of the millisecond before it is in the child's hands doesn't change anything. Either way, a fee is paid for a parent giving something to a child. It has nothing to do with semantics. The one giving the money is not the one getting taxed. The one receiving the money is the one getting taxed. How do you not see the difference? In the first case, someone would get taxed twice, in the second case each person gets taxed once, which is perfectly normal and is the way things work for everyone. I'm saying the difference is negligible. It doesn't matter who hands the check over to Uncle Sam, we all know where the money is coming from. I don't know why this tiny technicality matters at all to you. There's nothing morally different about the equation if the parent pays the taxes or if the child pays the taxes, the only reason to argue for that distinction is so that you can say it isn't technically double taxation - in other words, semantics. It's clearly not "perfectly normal and the way things work for everyone" because this effects only a very very very small percent of people and if it were all that normal then it should already be covered by the income tax instead of the estate tax.
It's not a "tiny technicality", nor is it semantics. Is it "double taxation" when you as an employee pay taxes on your salary even though your employer - from which your salary comes from - also pays taxes? No, it's not. Individuals get taxed on the money they earn. Again, there is no particular reason why a child who gets money from inheritance (therefore by doing nothing) should be taxed less than someone who earns the same amount of money through his own hard work. The child and his father are two different people, each getting taxed only once.
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On April 23 2012 20:22 DirtyCash wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 17:45 Agathon wrote:Funny to see that people who vote for the racist party live in places where...there's almost no french with foreign roots (like in my birth place) ^^ In the same time, in Paris, a multicultural city, Le Pen is barely at 5% We've some work to do to stop this ignorance in our countryside, it's such a shame. How sheltered can you be exactly? the place that votes the most for the "racist party" as you call it is historically the south-east region, and if you think "there's almost no french with foreign roots" there you are the ignorant one. Keep ignoring immigration issues, and you will see the FN get stronger each election.
What he says is completely true you completely missed the point.
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On April 23 2012 20:10 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 19:56 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Le Pen at 19%, Sarkozy at 25. Poor France... There isn't a single viable candidate, of course we're fucked. Le Pen (and Méléchon, ie the extremists) only got that amount of votes because people are sick of Sarko's bullshit and Hollande is deemed incompetent. He's already been ridiculed in the Times magazine ( source). No one really likes Sarkozy either. No candidates are viable. It's retarded. :/
Bayrou, even though he lacked charisma, would have been my choice.
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I live in germany only 5 km from the french border. What makes me really angry, is that in one of the french citys near the border Le Pen got 31%, even though most of the ppl there are working in germany or send their kids to a german university/school (there are many cross border educational projects here). Without these things they would be totally cut off, cause the next bigger citys in the region are all on the german side of the border + the only income they have are german tourists. They are the ones who benefit from an open european union the most, still they seem to shit on it.
I wish they could for one day see what their lives would be without the european union, they would never vote Le Pen again...
Edit: One of my favorit restaurans is in the city, but after this election I decided not to bother them again with my non-french ass.
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On April 23 2012 20:33 FaRess wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 20:22 DirtyCash wrote:On April 23 2012 17:45 Agathon wrote:Funny to see that people who vote for the racist party live in places where...there's almost no french with foreign roots (like in my birth place) ^^ In the same time, in Paris, a multicultural city, Le Pen is barely at 5% We've some work to do to stop this ignorance in our countryside, it's such a shame. How sheltered can you be exactly? the place that votes the most for the "racist party" as you call it is historically the south-east region, and if you think "there's almost no french with foreign roots" there you are the ignorant one. Keep ignoring immigration issues, and you will see the FN get stronger each election. What he says is completely true you completely missed the point.
I didnt miss his point at all, as a matter of a fact I know a few people that would correspond to his description (lives in a small village, has never seen an immigrant in his lifetime yet votes far-right) The way he generalizes it in his post is ludicrous though, and is disproven by all voting statistics. Thats what I'm addressing. If you believe it represents more than a couple percent of voters you are delusionnal.
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On April 23 2012 20:41 esperanto wrote:
I live in germany only 5 km from the french border. What makes me really angry, is that in one of the french citys near the border Le Pen got 31%, even though most of the ppl there are working in germany or send their kids to a german university/school (there are many cross border educational projects here). Without these things they would be totally cut off, cause the next bigger citys in the region are all on the german side of the border + the only income they have are german tourists. They are the ones who benefit from an open european union the most, still they seem to shit on it.
I wish they could for one day see what their lives would be without the european union, they would never vote Le Pen again...
Edit: One of my favorit restaurans is in the city, but after this election I decided not to bother them again with my non-french ass.
Youre totally right plus im pretty sure that all those guys who never seen a black man or a arab in their life also voted lepen because "france is bieng colonized by immigrants" etc.
They are just ignorants rednecks and/or 65+ people who dont understand the world of today, just ignore them dude.
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On April 23 2012 20:41 esperanto wrote:
I live in germany only 5 km from the french border. What makes me really angry, is that in one of the french citys near the border Le Pen got 31%, even though most of the ppl there are working in germany or send their kids to a german university/school (there are many cross border educational projects here). Without these things they would be totally cut off, cause the next bigger citys in the region are all on the german side of the border + the only income they have are german tourists. They are the ones who benefit from an open european union the most, still they seem to shit on it.
I wish they could for one day see what their lives would be without the european union, they would never vote Le Pen again...
Edit: One of my favorit restaurans is in the city, but after this election I decided not to bother them again with my non-french ass.
And the other 69%? Because they neonazis are having nice scores in the east of Germany doesn't mean I won't visit Berlin.
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On April 23 2012 20:22 DirtyCash wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 17:45 Agathon wrote:Funny to see that people who vote for the racist party live in places where...there's almost no french with foreign roots (like in my birth place) ^^ In the same time, in Paris, a multicultural city, Le Pen is barely at 5% We've some work to do to stop this ignorance in our countryside, it's such a shame. How sheltered can you be exactly? the place that votes the most for the "racist party" as you call it is historically the south-east region, and if you think "there's almost no french with foreign roots" there you are the ignorant one. Keep ignoring immigration issues, and you will see the FN get stronger each election.
Most bigs cities in France, except Marseille have a % for FN lower than 15%, but if you look at the small cities, even the villages, it's 20 to 35%. And most of immigrants don't live in the countryside, they live in big cities.
The lesser immigrants are mixed with the other voter, the stronger FN gets, because their just watch TF1 and are basicaly ignorants of immigration non-issues. Marseille is the exception confirming the rule.
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On April 23 2012 09:52 Jago wrote:My country actually has a gift tax, I kid you not  Try to wrap your head around that one.
For France, any donation gets taxed the way inheritance is, with a few restrictions:
- "common gifts" : those are birthday/christmas presents, wedding gifts, ... Not taxed as long as their value is less than 2.5% annual income for the one giving the present
- family cuts : gifts to children/grand children/brothers/sisters/... are not taxed as long as they are less than 20 000$ over 10 years
Only issue I have with the tax system as it stands is that gifts/inheritance tax is a fixed percentage. I would prefer them to be considered "income" for the receiving end, taken into account in their income tax declaration.
As it stands, if a friend needs helping out and I give him 1000$, he pays 500$ "donation tax" on it, even though he doesn't have enough income to pay an income tax to begin with. This specific case I would regard as a "double taxation".
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Alsace-Lorraine has historically always been very inclined to vote for the far-right.
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I for one am Glad that Le Pen scored so highly. Maybe now, governments all over Europe will address a serious problem instead of blindly allowing all sorts of 3rd world uneducated, useless, and maybe dangerous immigrants across our borders.
Also, the EU is completely evil.. They are slowly trying to take our freedom away from us and go against the will of the people time and time again. Hopefully, the EU will die soon so us Europeans can be free again.
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Eiaco:
Europe was much better without the Evil EU, it had all sorts of freedoms: like the one to wage war against itself.
No one knowledgeable in European history can really argue that political integration has been a bad thing. The greatest evils and the most devastating destruction mankind has ever achieved were born out of a divided Europe/
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On April 23 2012 21:02 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 20:22 DirtyCash wrote:On April 23 2012 17:45 Agathon wrote:Funny to see that people who vote for the racist party live in places where...there's almost no french with foreign roots (like in my birth place) ^^ In the same time, in Paris, a multicultural city, Le Pen is barely at 5% We've some work to do to stop this ignorance in our countryside, it's such a shame. How sheltered can you be exactly? the place that votes the most for the "racist party" as you call it is historically the south-east region, and if you think "there's almost no french with foreign roots" there you are the ignorant one. Keep ignoring immigration issues, and you will see the FN get stronger each election. The lesser immigrants are mixed with the other voter, the stronger FN gets, because their just watch TF1 and are basicaly ignorants of immigration non-issues. Marseille is the exception confirming the rule.
That seems to be contradicted by the extremely high FN scores in the south-east though. The immigrant population in PACA/Herault/Gard is very high, even in smaller cities and people vote massively far-right. Marseille's voting stats are pretty consistent with the whole region so its anything but an exception in that picture really.
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On April 23 2012 21:22 Eiaco wrote:
I for one am Glad that Le Pen scored so highly. Maybe now, governments all over Europe will address a serious problem instead of blindly allowing all sorts of 3rd world uneducated, useless, and maybe dangerous immigrants across our borders.
Also, the EU is completely evil.. They are slowly trying to take our freedom away from us and go against the will of the people time and time again. Hopefully, the EU will die soon so us Europeans can be free again.
Hey guys, we found someone belonging to the 19%!
You know buddy, I was a third world immigrant. But as I have a passion for history and as I had a brilliant academic past with little to no efforts on my part, I believe I can shit on nationalists like you. I probably know more about France than you do, speak French better than you do (litterature studies), and overall love France more than you do, because instead of loving the idea of a long past all-white country, I love the present and the way it is.
Not only that, but the fact that I'm not an ethnocentrist prick allowed me to speak four languages, travelling around the world.
Don't be mad, maybe one day you can work for me and learn from my third-world wisdom.
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Seems pretty similar to the US system in terms of parties, you have two parties essentially, Socialist(Democrat), Union For Pop Movement (Republican based on policies you described). I have a feeling that Francois Hollande is bringing me memories of Obama election, would he be the first homosexual president? Personally I disagree with most of his policies. 75% on income tax over 1 MIL Euro, that puts the mid-upper class even with the lower-middle class, which seems unfair because most people earn that money, or someone in their family earned it. Personally I wouldn't pay for someone else's food on a constant basis, but more factual, raising income tax to that level has proven to be detrimental to economic growth (you dont screw over the people who pump more money into the economy than the other 99%) also it is proven that due to this and a lot of other contributing factors, that it will actually hurt the debt rather than help it. The whole west seems to be stuck in these Keynesian Economics which will ultimately lead to the collapse of the world economy minus China. Just my .02, but I appreciate you explaining this to us since Americans typically rant about elections and mishaps in our country.
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On April 23 2012 10:28 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 10:16 Jago wrote:On April 23 2012 10:06 kwizach wrote:On April 23 2012 10:01 Jago wrote:On April 23 2012 09:55 kwizach wrote:On April 23 2012 09:43 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2012 09:06 kwizach wrote:On April 23 2012 07:32 Jago wrote:On April 23 2012 07:06 VyingsP wrote:
On the other hand, Hollande has some good measures, such as the ineligibility for 10 years of the politicians convinced with corruption, or the increase of the inheritance tax (which is only fair, if you consider that being rich should be deserved and not inherited). WTF? Inheritance tax is one of the most retarded taxations in existence. So if I work my ass off to build a nestegg for my wife and children, pay my taxes throughout the decades, then I die and then... they have to pay taxes AGAIN? Why should the money someone earns by inheritance be taxed at a lower rate than the money someone earns by working hard? Watch Anthony Weiner (I miss this guy SO much) completely demolish Megyn Kelly and Mike Huckabee on that precise topic: vs Megyn Kellyvs Mike HuckabeeThe fallacy that opponents of the estate tax use is the idea that the person who's dead has gotten taxed twice. That is NOT the case. That person got taxed once, when he earned his money. The person inheriting the money also gets taxed once, when receiving the money. Why should you have to pay in order to give your child something? That's a pretty twisted idea in its own. You're not paying anything, you're dead. Your child, however, pays a tax on his inheritance. He's getting money by doing nothing, there's really no reason why he should pay less in taxes than someone who works his ass off to earn the same amount. So is your line of reasoning seriously something along the lines of "if you are getting money, for anything, from anything, you have to pay taxes on it"? That's some seriously twisted thinking... My line of reasoning, as already stated, is that there is no reason someone receiving money by not doing any work through inheritance should pay less taxes on that money than someone working his ass off to earn the same amount. Stop calling it "seriously twisted thinking", not only is that an ad hominem, it's also ridiculous since many countries have something amounting to an estate or inheritance tax, including the United States and your own country (Finland). First of all, you need to look up the definition of ad hominen. Second, I am well aware my country (Finland) has an inheritance tax and it's one of the many reasons why I consider Finland's taxation system to be broken. From Merriam-Webster: "1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect" [which is what you're doing by calling it "twisted thinking" - you didn't even attempt to respond to the actual argument]You're free to hold the opinion that inheritance tax should not exist, but so far you've either stated fallacies ("we're getting taxed twice" - wrong) or qualified my line of thinking as "twisted", which in no way addresses my arguments/advances the debate.
Think logical: Somebody worked for the money, somebody had already paid taxes on it, and before you speak about American Tax Law, know that you don't have to pay an inheritance tax if you understand how it works, take this example:
My family has an estate of 56.5 MIL, alright so that is spread between Grandparents, Sons/Daughters, Grandkids, if you split it into all different parts: 3 Sons/Daughters, 9 Grandkids, each person inherits 4.7 million, but in reality the sons/daughters inherit 18.8 MIL, there is no tax strain due to the splitting of the inheritance, and how it is setup into different accounts and funds, as well as a 3% lawyering fee for an estate manager. At least in America this is how it works, source: My Estate Lawyer at annual meeting last summer. There are plenty of loopholes, because doubletax is wrong, what do you need to pay so much tax for? So poor useless fucks who haven't ever been anything get a free ride to everything?
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On April 23 2012 21:58 bayside wrote:
Seems pretty similar to the US system in terms of parties, you have two parties essentially, Socialist(Democrat), Union For Pop Movement (Republican based on policies you described). I have a feeling that Francois Hollande is bringing me memories of Obama election, would he be the first homosexual president? Personally I disagree with most of his policies. 75% on income tax over 1 MIL Euro, that puts the mid-upper class even with the lower-middle class, which seems unfair because most people earn that money, or someone in their family earned it. Personally I wouldn't pay for someone else's food on a constant basis, but more factual, raising income tax to that level has proven to be detrimental to economic growth (you dont screw over the people who pump more money into the economy than the other 99%) also it is proven that due to this and a lot of other contributing factors, that it will actually hurt the debt rather than help it. The whole west seems to be stuck in these Keynesian Economics which will ultimately lead to the collapse of the world economy minus China. Just my .02, but I appreciate you explaining this to us since Americans typically rant about elections and mishaps in our country.
lol, Hollande is straight dude
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On April 23 2012 21:58 bayside wrote:
Seems pretty similar to the US system in terms of parties, you have two parties essentially, Socialist(Democrat), Union For Pop Movement (Republican based on policies you described). I have a feeling that Francois Hollande is bringing me memories of Obama election, would he be the first homosexual president? Personally I disagree with most of his policies. 75% on income tax over 1 MIL Euro, that puts the mid-upper class even with the lower-middle class, which seems unfair because most people earn that money, or someone in their family earned it. Personally I wouldn't pay for someone else's food on a constant basis, but more factual, raising income tax to that level has proven to be detrimental to economic growth (you dont screw over the people who pump more money into the economy than the other 99%) also it is proven that due to this and a lot of other contributing factors, that it will actually hurt the debt rather than help it. The whole west seems to be stuck in these Keynesian Economics which will ultimately lead to the collapse of the world economy minus China. Just my .02, but I appreciate you explaining this to us since Americans typically rant about elections and mishaps in our country.
ROFL, no.
The mother of his children (former presidential election candidate in 2007, lost vs Sarkozy at the 2nd round) :
![[image loading]](http://photos.last-video.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/segolene-royal-femme-politique-francaise.jpg)
His actual GF :
![[image loading]](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6oHA0y44avakliBNeVXmUVdLBoLKU0gLedQZAXWGCHJOgk22h)
Not homosexual, at least not publicly.
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On April 23 2012 21:58 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 21:22 Eiaco wrote:
I for one am Glad that Le Pen scored so highly. Maybe now, governments all over Europe will address a serious problem instead of blindly allowing all sorts of 3rd world uneducated, useless, and maybe dangerous immigrants across our borders.
Also, the EU is completely evil.. They are slowly trying to take our freedom away from us and go against the will of the people time and time again. Hopefully, the EU will die soon so us Europeans can be free again. Hey guys, we found someone belonging to the 19%! You know buddy, I was a third world immigrant. But as I have a passion for history and as I had a brilliant academic past with little to no efforts on my part, I believe I can shit on nationalists like you. I probably know more about France than you do, speak French better than you do (litterature studies), and overall love France more than you do, because instead of loving the idea of a long past all-white country, I love the present and the way it is. Not only that, but the fact that I'm not an ethnocentrist prick allowed me to speak four languages, travelling around the world. Don't be mad, maybe one day you can work for me and learn from my third-world wisdom.
Actually, you probably do love France more than me and speak French better than me because im English .
Also, im very happy for you but the majority of immigrants (in my country anyways) come over with little to no skills and then scrounge off benefits once they become citizens. Also, if we did away with "The Political Correctness Brigade" and stopped given them funding, we probably would not be in recession right now.
A classic example of this is when the British Government gave Pakistan 500m aid in the middle of a recession. I wonder how many Hospitals, Care Homes or Schools could have been improved with that money.
I do not hate immigrants who come here to work and adopt our culture and live by our rules. On the other hand, I bitterly dispise the immigrants who come here to scrounge off benefits, hate our culture and throw eggs at our brave soldiers as they return from war. I also hate all left wing politicians as they and their social experiment has caused this mess.
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EPT
