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On March 15 2012 00:35 Kipsate wrote:
Also for anyone wondering, Dota 2 is not looking at Korea for their Esport scene, the Esport scene will be much larger, China, where millions play it. Granted it the first time people had a glimpse into it and it was an incredibly hyped tournament, the Dota 2 international had literally MILLIONS watching. Dota 2 in Korea would be cool, but China , China is where the future of Dota lies.
And for those wondering and willing to learn and watch(not many it seems) you should give LoL a try, I didn't like it compared to Dota at first and I still think its not as good as Dota, However the IEM Hannover games were entertaining to watch for me and shown that a single team M5(Dem russians) showed new play and did not lose a SINGLE game during IEM Hannover, if its so easy then how can a single team dominate as much as it did?(not to mention that across 2 full IEMS they only dropped 1/2 games I believe)
LoL is already huge in China
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On March 15 2012 00:35 Kipsate wrote:
Also for anyone wondering, Dota 2 is not looking at Korea for their Esport scene, the Esport scene will be much larger, China, where millions play it. Granted it the first time people had a glimpse into it and it was an incredibly hyped tournament, the Dota 2 international had literally MILLIONS watching. Dota 2 in Korea would be cool, but China , China is where the future of Dota lies.
And for those wondering and willing to learn and watch(not many it seems) you should give LoL a try, I didn't like it compared to Dota at first and I still think its not as good as Dota, However the IEM Hannover games were entertaining to watch for me and shown that a single team M5(Dem russians) showed new play and did not lose a SINGLE game during IEM Hannover, if its so easy then how can a single team dominate as much as it did?(not to mention that across 2 full IEMS they only dropped 1/2 games I believe)
Valid statement. It's not like you have to be focus everything on Korea anymore. You can be successful worldwide which is much better than single country.
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
On March 15 2012 00:34 sharky246 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:31 konadora wrote:On March 15 2012 00:28 rabidch wrote:On March 15 2012 00:25 DwD wrote:On March 15 2012 00:23 Zerksys wrote:On March 14 2012 20:19 gwaihir wrote:
meh, stupid lol. i guess while the rest of the world will be slowly overtaken by dota 2 after its release (hopefully), the koreans will be isolated once again with LoL :D Unfortunately this is not going to be true. Valve has expressed to the community that Dota 2 is not going to be a free to play game which makes money off of micro transactions. A huge part of what made LoL such a huge game is that it is indeed free to play. For anyone who knows anything about broodwar, this is history repeating itself. The reason that broodwar got to be a huge game was because you could pass it around so easily. It got to a point where you could literally put the game on a usb and give it to your friend so you could play it at LANs. A game being free is a huge motivator to play the game. Once you begin to play the game, the gameplay will speak for itself. On March 14 2012 20:12 Kamwah wrote:
LoL is just a shadow of DOTA. The 2 DOTAs coming out will take over from them I hope. I love Dota 2, I have a beta key, and I want it so badly to succeed. However, the attitude that is so common among the community is that LoL players are just casuals who who are simply "too bad" to see the brilliance of dota 2. I want to tell the dota 2 community DO NOT DO THIS. This type of attitude is not a good attitude to attract people toward your game. If members of the dota 2 community continue to take this elitist attitude, dota 2 will never, I repeat NEVER EVER EVER EVER succeed. This elitist attitude is partly what drove me away from HoN and I see the same attitude starting to develop in the Dota 2 community even in the beta. This same elitist attitude is what is starting to drive people away from the sc2 community; the idea that, "oh you play ______ game? That's such an easy game compared to sc2." As for with sc2, I hate to say this, but the company I love that made games such as wc3, scbw, and diablo, is dead. They have evolved into a corporate giant that cares nothing about their community other than earning their dollar. This is why blizzard will never again make another game as popular and has as much longevity as BW. Source for Dota2 not going to be free to play? I'm pretty sure they haven't said anything? all i've read from valve employees is leaning towards f2p on micro-transactions, mainly because of their experience from tf2 icefrog said dota 2 will be f2p valve themselves said that they really want dota 2 to be f2p after seeing what happened to tf2 (iirc the playerbase increased like 12-fold after becoming f2p and that had they known that, they would have made tf2 f2p right from the start) source: http://www.slashgear.com/valve-team-fortress-2-switch-to-free-to-play-a-good-idea-says-company-08217625/ dota 2 will be free? then what is this? http://www.gamersbook.com/scene/news/dota-2-price-leaked-and-more-news-regarding-valve-upcoming-title/
random site, year old news
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People (for the most part) look at LoL as "casual" compared to DotA because of the lack of core mechanics. Denying adds a layer of complexity to laning. You can do everything you do in LoL in DotA, plus you can deny. Do you last hit that creep for money or do you deny that creep to screw the other guy over? More options make for more complexity.
Not being able to port to town for free, it'll cost you 135g and a TP scroll. Better keep one on you for those "Oh shit" situations. Raxes not respawning, better defend because you only have one shot. Not being able to heal out of the gate, buy items for that. Not being able to blink on every hero, want blink? Pay 2150g for it or play one of the heroes that gets it.
Do those things make a game better or worse? Obviously that's completely subjective. As someone who has played DotA, HoN, and DotA2 that to me feels like taking a step backwards. Makes me feel like I can phone it in since there's a net under me. I've played some LoL, it's a fine game, just not my cup of tea. I don't really understand people getting the torches and pitchforks out about it. Play what you like, who gives a shit?
Those that are praying for DotA2 to take over the LoL throne, keep dreaming. It's never going to happen. Think of LoL as the WoW of the genre. You're not going to draw all those people to DotA2. You might get some of them but you're not going to sink the ship. I'm sure DotA2 will sink the HoN ship, but LoL is too big and it's too different. There's nothing wrong with that either.
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On March 15 2012 00:28 RonNation wrote:this is NOT good for esports 
yeah man...like not good...right?
why the hell is it not good for esports? just because the game you favour isn't #1 anymore?
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On March 15 2012 00:34 sharky246 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:31 konadora wrote:On March 15 2012 00:28 rabidch wrote:On March 15 2012 00:25 DwD wrote:On March 15 2012 00:23 Zerksys wrote:On March 14 2012 20:19 gwaihir wrote:
meh, stupid lol. i guess while the rest of the world will be slowly overtaken by dota 2 after its release (hopefully), the koreans will be isolated once again with LoL :D Unfortunately this is not going to be true. Valve has expressed to the community that Dota 2 is not going to be a free to play game which makes money off of micro transactions. A huge part of what made LoL such a huge game is that it is indeed free to play. For anyone who knows anything about broodwar, this is history repeating itself. The reason that broodwar got to be a huge game was because you could pass it around so easily. It got to a point where you could literally put the game on a usb and give it to your friend so you could play it at LANs. A game being free is a huge motivator to play the game. Once you begin to play the game, the gameplay will speak for itself. On March 14 2012 20:12 Kamwah wrote:
LoL is just a shadow of DOTA. The 2 DOTAs coming out will take over from them I hope. I love Dota 2, I have a beta key, and I want it so badly to succeed. However, the attitude that is so common among the community is that LoL players are just casuals who who are simply "too bad" to see the brilliance of dota 2. I want to tell the dota 2 community DO NOT DO THIS. This type of attitude is not a good attitude to attract people toward your game. If members of the dota 2 community continue to take this elitist attitude, dota 2 will never, I repeat NEVER EVER EVER EVER succeed. This elitist attitude is partly what drove me away from HoN and I see the same attitude starting to develop in the Dota 2 community even in the beta. This same elitist attitude is what is starting to drive people away from the sc2 community; the idea that, "oh you play ______ game? That's such an easy game compared to sc2." As for with sc2, I hate to say this, but the company I love that made games such as wc3, scbw, and diablo, is dead. They have evolved into a corporate giant that cares nothing about their community other than earning their dollar. This is why blizzard will never again make another game as popular and has as much longevity as BW. Source for Dota2 not going to be free to play? I'm pretty sure they haven't said anything? all i've read from valve employees is leaning towards f2p on micro-transactions, mainly because of their experience from tf2 icefrog said dota 2 will be f2p valve themselves said that they really want dota 2 to be f2p after seeing what happened to tf2 (iirc the playerbase increased like 12-fold after becoming f2p and that had they known that, they would have made tf2 f2p right from the start) source: http://www.slashgear.com/valve-team-fortress-2-switch-to-free-to-play-a-good-idea-says-company-08217625/ dota 2 will be free? then what is this? http://www.gamersbook.com/scene/news/dota-2-price-leaked-and-more-news-regarding-valve-upcoming-title/
That is very old info. Posted April 25:th.
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On March 14 2012 20:27 wunsun wrote: Sad day. I started playing LOL recently, and I find that while its fun and competitive, its just not as deep of a game as SC and SC2 is. I wonder how long LOL can stay as an esport.
So you recently started playing LoL and you already understand how deep the game is? Well thats surprising to say the least, since new players are hardly even familiar with the champions let alone the various champion matchups, lane dynamics, jungle timings etc.
Arbitrarily difficult mechanics don't make games viable esports. If the game is competitive and can garner viewers then its a viable eSport. LoL doesn't require 250apm to play optimally so it isn't an eSport? Yes its mechanically far easier than SC2 but to say it lacks depth is stupid. The game has far more burden of knowledge than SC2 & it has more than enough depth in terms of strategy, execution and teamwork.
Its funny when people say they play LoL and it has absolutely no depth when they wouldn't be able to tell simple stuff like how to play a dorans opening vs a cloth+5pot opening.
I've played more than a thousand games of LoL but when our LoL subforum vets like smash and yango explained these things to me I was surprised at how deep strategy is at the higher levels. And those guys are just high elo players, equivalent to a general masters ladder player in SC2.
And please stop comparing LoL and Dota. They are different games. The fact is that they different design philosophies and niche, one of them isn't necessarily better than the other. In the end people will play the one they prefer, some will play both. Stop posting hateful stuff just because you don't like one.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On March 15 2012 00:37 emucxg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:35 Kipsate wrote:
Also for anyone wondering, Dota 2 is not looking at Korea for their Esport scene, the Esport scene will be much larger, China, where millions play it. Granted it the first time people had a glimpse into it and it was an incredibly hyped tournament, the Dota 2 international had literally MILLIONS watching. Dota 2 in Korea would be cool, but China , China is where the future of Dota lies.
And for those wondering and willing to learn and watch(not many it seems) you should give LoL a try, I didn't like it compared to Dota at first and I still think its not as good as Dota, However the IEM Hannover games were entertaining to watch for me and shown that a single team M5(Dem russians) showed new play and did not lose a SINGLE game during IEM Hannover, if its so easy then how can a single team dominate as much as it did?(not to mention that across 2 full IEMS they only dropped 1/2 games I believe) LoL is already huge in China
And there is no reason they can not co-exist there, China has the infrastructure for both.
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kotaku is full of sensationalist bullshit.
league of legends is an incredibly simple game that is fun for people, but doesn't even come close to catering the hardcore.
that being said, we can all hope sc2 makes a comeback with hots in korea but let's be honest here - no lan function was probably the killing point.
On March 15 2012 00:38 Fawkes wrote:yeah man...like not good...right? why the hell is it not good for esports? just because the game you favour isn't #1 anymore?
truer words have not been said.
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On March 15 2012 00:32 Ryukku wrote:
Why cant everyone get along? It benefits everyone if esports thrives.
No it doesn't.
It's a competitive market like any other, and one that can't grow infinitely (if at all past this point).
That said, SC2's popularity has generally brought more negative than positive things for me as an SC2 fan, so news like this don't bother me in the slightest. For all I care, other games are more than welcome to carry the torch of esports.
Maybe then we can actually get a proper community instead of being a mass of blind consumers that Starcraft (well, SC2) scene has turned into.
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a game that isnt even e-sports cant take any e-sports spot.
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On March 15 2012 00:37 TwilightStar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:38 Shikyo wrote:
This is actually funny btw, I used to be in top 1.5% of SC2 and I've never been in like top 10% of LoL despite playing like 4 times more games of LoL. Well, think about it: You said you were top 1.5% of SC2, in 1v1 correct? That could be due in part to the fact they are you are a good player, or had a lot of prior experience with brood war (i'm in the same boat as you, except I don't know whether you played BW or not) You say that you haven't gotten to the top 10% of LoL, this is due in part to the fact that it's a 5v5 game.. You may be a very good player, but unless you are put with people of equal skill as yourself on your team, you may not see any further advancement. It doesn't really mean anything. I don't know, I've been playing BW for longer than I have MOBA games, so I suppose that means I'm biased when I still believe that BW/SC2 are much more difficult to improve/perform than in LoL or Dota/HoN. This is just what I've picked up from my experiences with all games.
Because if you play enough games you hit your true rating. LoL players have a concept of "Elo Hell" where they think they are the greatest thing sinced sliced bread and the only reason they are not 2k Elo is because they constantly get players who are terrible.
Trust me, it doesnt work like that. There are hundreds of examples of players deliberatly tanking their rating then going straight back to it.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 15 2012 00:34 sharky246 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:31 konadora wrote:On March 15 2012 00:28 rabidch wrote:On March 15 2012 00:25 DwD wrote:On March 15 2012 00:23 Zerksys wrote:On March 14 2012 20:19 gwaihir wrote:
meh, stupid lol. i guess while the rest of the world will be slowly overtaken by dota 2 after its release (hopefully), the koreans will be isolated once again with LoL :D Unfortunately this is not going to be true. Valve has expressed to the community that Dota 2 is not going to be a free to play game which makes money off of micro transactions. A huge part of what made LoL such a huge game is that it is indeed free to play. For anyone who knows anything about broodwar, this is history repeating itself. The reason that broodwar got to be a huge game was because you could pass it around so easily. It got to a point where you could literally put the game on a usb and give it to your friend so you could play it at LANs. A game being free is a huge motivator to play the game. Once you begin to play the game, the gameplay will speak for itself. On March 14 2012 20:12 Kamwah wrote:
LoL is just a shadow of DOTA. The 2 DOTAs coming out will take over from them I hope. I love Dota 2, I have a beta key, and I want it so badly to succeed. However, the attitude that is so common among the community is that LoL players are just casuals who who are simply "too bad" to see the brilliance of dota 2. I want to tell the dota 2 community DO NOT DO THIS. This type of attitude is not a good attitude to attract people toward your game. If members of the dota 2 community continue to take this elitist attitude, dota 2 will never, I repeat NEVER EVER EVER EVER succeed. This elitist attitude is partly what drove me away from HoN and I see the same attitude starting to develop in the Dota 2 community even in the beta. This same elitist attitude is what is starting to drive people away from the sc2 community; the idea that, "oh you play ______ game? That's such an easy game compared to sc2." As for with sc2, I hate to say this, but the company I love that made games such as wc3, scbw, and diablo, is dead. They have evolved into a corporate giant that cares nothing about their community other than earning their dollar. This is why blizzard will never again make another game as popular and has as much longevity as BW. Source for Dota2 not going to be free to play? I'm pretty sure they haven't said anything? all i've read from valve employees is leaning towards f2p on micro-transactions, mainly because of their experience from tf2 icefrog said dota 2 will be f2p valve themselves said that they really want dota 2 to be f2p after seeing what happened to tf2 (iirc the playerbase increased like 12-fold after becoming f2p and that had they known that, they would have made tf2 f2p right from the start) source: http://www.slashgear.com/valve-team-fortress-2-switch-to-free-to-play-a-good-idea-says-company-08217625/ dota 2 will be free? then what is this? http://www.gamersbook.com/scene/news/dota-2-price-leaked-and-more-news-regarding-valve-upcoming-title/
A year old article, while the one he linked is from 2 weeks ago. 
The games compete because they have the same general userbase and they go after the same dollars. LoL's big numbers do indeed help ESPORTS as a whole, but if it doesn't translate to SC2 or anything else, then that certainly isn't beneficial for everyone. Halo's rise did absolutely nothing for the CS/Q3 scenes.
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On March 15 2012 00:41 KalWarkov wrote:
a game that isnt even e-sports cant take any e-sports spot.
and what exactly makes a game an e-sport?
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On March 15 2012 00:42 Pulselol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:41 KalWarkov wrote:
a game that isnt even e-sports cant take any e-sports spot. and what exactly makes a game an e-sport?
It's hard and Casualnewbies can't play it! LoL is like WoW... sooooooooooooo bad!
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On March 15 2012 00:42 Pulselol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:41 KalWarkov wrote:
a game that isnt even e-sports cant take any e-sports spot. and what exactly makes a game an e-sport?
People willing to watch players as they try to prove they are the best. Thats it.
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United States23455 Posts
On March 15 2012 00:26 rotinegg wrote:
There was a mis-translation in the prize pool amount: it's ~$180,000 TOTAL, not ~$1.8million for the winner.
Well that's a pretty gigantic mis-translation by Kotaku.
Again, this just makes the article even more unfounded. LoL is the more popular game, but e-sport? Who knows. I want to see actual ratings from the OGN shows and see if the thousands of fans continue showing up to the games. I want to see the LoL players and teams get fanclubs/supporters such as Brood War and even SC2 has in Korea.
The article itself is a bad piece of writing that mis-translated the main freaking point it was trying to make. The reason it's the #1 e-sport in Korea is because of the gigantic prize pool and the guy who wrote the article was off by a $1,500,000 dollars. That's not to say it won't be very soon because it's obvious it is damn popular in PC Bangs, but the article really doesn't say anything new and the only point it does make is wrong.
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People are dismissing LoL solely because it does not feature as many mechanics as the other games of its genre. Yet, what it lacks in complexity, it makes up for it with its constantly shifting metagame. It has a huge playerbase so people who already play the game will enjoy watching it while people who has never touched it would not. In short, it's a simple game but has lots of players and provides many refreshing changes.
BW and SC2 on the other hand, do not rely on its playerbase to draw its viewers. It relies on 1. spectator friendliness 2. Deep gameplay that draws many possibilities even without any tampering of the game. People who don't play the game should be able to enjoy it as a spectator sport as well.
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On March 15 2012 00:44 HejaBVB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:42 Pulselol wrote:On March 15 2012 00:41 KalWarkov wrote:
a game that isnt even e-sports cant take any e-sports spot. and what exactly makes a game an e-sport? It's hard and Casualnewbies can't play it! LoL is like WoW... sooooooooooooo bad!
but anybody can pick up starcraft and play it - the same could be said for literally every single fucking video game there. you might be the best instantly, but that's beside the point.
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The last LoL tournament was won by a team being undefeated. I guess it had been incredible luck because even casuals reach the low skill ceiling of this game?
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EPT
