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On March 16 2019 10:34 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 08:45 Kerotan wrote:On March 16 2019 03:10 Cricketer12 wrote:On March 16 2019 02:28 JimmiC wrote:On March 16 2019 02:18 Cricketer12 wrote:
I woke up at 4 am, checked cricinfo.com and saw a headline for the shooting. I go back to sleep, wake up a few hours later and see it being posted about by everyone. All I could think was "wait this is newsworthy"? "People are shocked by this, surprised that it happened"? Radicalization isnt happening on the fringes, the instigators are as mainstream as they come. When so many government members around the world spew hate and bigotry, what else can be expected of our citizens? Muslims, don't take this as an opportunity to invite pity, recognize what is happening and what we are doing wrong and fix it. Can you clarify your last sentence. It sort of reads like you are blaming the Muslims. Sure. First let me clarify that I include myself in all of this. We have two things we need to work on political and social engagement. Muslims need to be active in their neighborhoods and communities. Show everyone how normal we are. How many Americans still don't know anyone in their life who is Muslim. People fear what they dont know. Invite your neighbor over for dinner etc. Reflect on why the West views us so negatively and figure out how to change that mentality. I'm not saying 70 people got shot because of our faults, but I am saying people will continue to get hurt until we do our part. Believe me when I say many Muslims have done loads in this regard, but there are many who do nothing and overall clearly we need to do more. I almost completely disagree with this. The onus is not on Muslims to act normative. "Show everyone how normal we are. How many Americans still don't know anyone in their life who is Muslim. People fear what they dont know. Invite your neighbor over for dinner etc."This is just good practice, and therefore hard to argue against. "Reflect on why the West views us so negatively and figure out how to change that mentality"Ask yourself what the west is here. In my view the west is a pretty yucky/useless category. If someone from "the west" thinks that all Muslims follow a prophet who was a paedophile (and ergo all Muslims are bad people), it should not be on the Muslim on the street to change their minds. Which leads me to my final part: "I'm not saying 70 people got shot because of our faults, but I am saying people will continue to get hurt until we do our part.
Believe me when I say many Muslims have done loads in this regard, but there are many who do nothing and overall clearly we need to do more."You are kinda saying this. Not being murdered should not be contingent and will not be contingent on doing "your part". The sort of person that records their mass murder on film is not going to be swayed by how many open days your mosque has, outreach or how much of a community figurehead you are. On a more day to day level, then yes it might help stem verbal abuse and discrimination. My key point: No one should be coerced into behaving like archetypal white Anglo-Saxon protestant; both from a moral stand point, but also because I believe that it will be ineffective. ----- As much as as disagree, thank you for sharing - I'm in too minds about it, if being normal was effective, I would be more spilt, it would not be right, but pragmatically it would be required. I agree, I dont see why Muslims need to run a public PR campaign lifestyle to not be feared. Sure being a good neighbor is great, but being a good neighbor should just being a good neighbor. Im not particularly religious, but fuck me if I am going to go around telling people in Hijabs they should do anything outside of being regular friendly law abiding citizens to live safely.
Do people not realize that there are individuals who voted for President Trump? He still has a 40+ approval rating iirc. Geert Wilders and Pamela Geller and the rest have supporters. Staying silent and doing nothing doesnt remedy the problem. It may not be fair we have to do something, but it's our reality.
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On March 16 2019 11:00 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 10:34 Rebs wrote:On March 16 2019 08:45 Kerotan wrote:On March 16 2019 03:10 Cricketer12 wrote:On March 16 2019 02:28 JimmiC wrote:On March 16 2019 02:18 Cricketer12 wrote:
I woke up at 4 am, checked cricinfo.com and saw a headline for the shooting. I go back to sleep, wake up a few hours later and see it being posted about by everyone. All I could think was "wait this is newsworthy"? "People are shocked by this, surprised that it happened"? Radicalization isnt happening on the fringes, the instigators are as mainstream as they come. When so many government members around the world spew hate and bigotry, what else can be expected of our citizens? Muslims, don't take this as an opportunity to invite pity, recognize what is happening and what we are doing wrong and fix it. Can you clarify your last sentence. It sort of reads like you are blaming the Muslims. Sure. First let me clarify that I include myself in all of this. We have two things we need to work on political and social engagement. Muslims need to be active in their neighborhoods and communities. Show everyone how normal we are. How many Americans still don't know anyone in their life who is Muslim. People fear what they dont know. Invite your neighbor over for dinner etc. Reflect on why the West views us so negatively and figure out how to change that mentality. I'm not saying 70 people got shot because of our faults, but I am saying people will continue to get hurt until we do our part. Believe me when I say many Muslims have done loads in this regard, but there are many who do nothing and overall clearly we need to do more. I almost completely disagree with this. The onus is not on Muslims to act normative. "Show everyone how normal we are. How many Americans still don't know anyone in their life who is Muslim. People fear what they dont know. Invite your neighbor over for dinner etc."This is just good practice, and therefore hard to argue against. "Reflect on why the West views us so negatively and figure out how to change that mentality"Ask yourself what the west is here. In my view the west is a pretty yucky/useless category. If someone from "the west" thinks that all Muslims follow a prophet who was a paedophile (and ergo all Muslims are bad people), it should not be on the Muslim on the street to change their minds. Which leads me to my final part: "I'm not saying 70 people got shot because of our faults, but I am saying people will continue to get hurt until we do our part.
Believe me when I say many Muslims have done loads in this regard, but there are many who do nothing and overall clearly we need to do more."You are kinda saying this. Not being murdered should not be contingent and will not be contingent on doing "your part". The sort of person that records their mass murder on film is not going to be swayed by how many open days your mosque has, outreach or how much of a community figurehead you are. On a more day to day level, then yes it might help stem verbal abuse and discrimination. My key point: No one should be coerced into behaving like archetypal white Anglo-Saxon protestant; both from a moral stand point, but also because I believe that it will be ineffective. ----- As much as as disagree, thank you for sharing - I'm in too minds about it, if being normal was effective, I would be more spilt, it would not be right, but pragmatically it would be required. I agree, I dont see why Muslims need to run a public PR campaign lifestyle to not be feared. Sure being a good neighbor is great, but being a good neighbor should just being a good neighbor. Im not particularly religious, but fuck me if I am going to go around telling people in Hijabs they should do anything outside of being regular friendly law abiding citizens to live safely. Do people not realize that there are individuals who voted for President Drumpf? He still has a 40+ approval rating iirc. Geert Wilders and Pamela Geller and the rest have supporters. Staying silent and doing nothing doesnt remedy the problem. It may not be fair we have to do something, but it's our reality.
Do westerners go around trying to invite Muslims to their homes to show them how great there are because ISIS exists?
I didnt say people need to stay silent or not do something. Feel free to do it, but not as a reaction to this and certainly your solutions are meaningless. I dont have the bandwidth in my life to go around campaigning for Muslims. Why should I? I can attend a rally here or there.
The best thing I can do for Muslims is just be me. Doing your part should be to be who you are and thats it. I have 0 reason for self reflection here. I refuse to be subject to a reality where despite clearly any more reason (and in North America give its current state -perhaps even, less) I should go around trying to change perceptions when the people of my faith do less bad shit then others.
What Im saying is that this incident shouldn't spark me to get out and start campaigning for people like me. Geert Wilders and Pamela Geller will continue to exist whether you do this or not, if anything if you do it wrong, you will make it worst.
These sorts of people disliking you isnt because they dont know you, its because they've learnt to hate you without knowing you. At that point its already lost.
if you are a good person and your a Muslim, your neighbor will be your friend without you going around PRing yourself so that people like you. And in the overwhelming instances where Muslims do live as minorities, thats usually the case.
Or what do you want? That people go and move next too racist white dudes in Mississippi that hate them and invite them for dinner ? Try it and see how it works out for you
Engagement and understanding is an organic process and the only people that can control perceptions are politicians and the media. If neither work for you, you can do whatever the fuck you want it wont make an iota of difference in stopping things like this from happening. If you want to self reflect, reflect on how you can change those two. Other minorities can barely make it into Govt, its a slow roll.
There is a reason this shit doesn't fly in Canada, even conservative Govts here have embraced immigrants always. And despite that this sort of thing has happened here too.
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I cannot comprehend, why something like this seems to have become the new normal, it's sickening.
It's 2019 and here we are...again. If we can learn anything from history, it's that humanity will never learn from history.
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On March 16 2019 01:43 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 01:35 Gzerble wrote:On January 30 2019 02:29 Dazed. wrote:On January 30 2019 00:31 Danglars wrote:On January 29 2019 22:52 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2019 13:17 Danglars wrote:Good news (from my gun rights perspective) for America: A couple good cases are before the Supreme Court on bad gun laws. With the Supreme Court now having five justices who are less likely to approve of gun regulations and laws, it granted a major gun case Tuesday for the first time in nearly a decade.
The court granted a right-to-carry case out of New York that pits the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association against the City of New York. New York bans transporting permitted handguns outside city lines, even if the gun is not loaded and is locked in a container. The guns currently can only be taken to the handful of shooting ranges within city limits.
The case could have wide ramifications for gun rights and gun restrictions across the country, depending on how broadly the court rules.
Conservative justices have been champing at the bit to take up gun rights cases. Justice Clarence Thomas in 2014, for example, criticized the court for not taking up more gun cases, calling it a "disfavored" right.
"The right to keep and bear arms is apparently this Court's constitutional orphan," Thomas wrote.
With a newfound majority after the confirmation of Justice Brett Kavanaugh, conservatives may have their chance to make a broad ruling, holding, for example, that the right to own a gun means the right to carry one, or it could rule more narrowly, saying New York's law is overly restrictive or something in between. NPR (also, Scotusblog Case Hub) This is a big chance for the Supreme Court to affirm American citizen's "bear arms" rights, and make the defense of such rights stand among the other important Bill of Rights amendments like the first amendment. The second amendment has been a "constitutional orphan" and "second-class right" for far too long. This is one step back in the right direction. The more secure Americans can feel in their second amendment rights, the better public comity for gun control in the margins. Unloaded guns in locked containers merely being transported out of the city seems like an obvious entry point we can agree on (or can we in this forum lol?) The sensible next steps is to challenge gun laws on concealed carry permits that first ask the petitioner to prove he or she has good cause to need one. The right to bear arms is not subject to proving somebody's out to get you. Yeah, i guess all the bullshit to steal justices to stack the courts with hardcore conservatives paid off in the end. You get to keep on murdering each other forever, and it will be made even more easy for you to do so. I hope you are happy. It just seems so absurd that this is something that you view as a good thing. At this point, i kinda just wish there was a way to put all the US conservatives into the hellscape they love to create for themselves and let them be happy there, but keep them from hurting all the other people in the country. Just have a no healthcare, all guns, all coal, all corruption confederate state with a wall around it in the south, and a reasonable state in the north. In the next 20 or 30 years, we'll see if a peaceful separation is the only way to make society work with such opposite views. Keep your hellscape confederacy memes, I'll keep my rights, thank you very much. How is your 'right' to have a gun infringed when there are regulations in place to ensure crazy or criminals do not? Is there something about you we should know about? Or are you just rabidly paranoid and assuming that once regulations come in, seizure is imminent? Don't talk with him. He honestly believes that the right of a shooter in a mass shooting to have ease of access to the guns he used in a mass shooting is greater than the right of people shot in a mass shooting to not be shot. There's no conversation to be had with that opinion. The post you just quoted is a month and a half old, and you're making a ridiculous assumption about his beliefs on the matter. Why did you even post here?
Because I have already had that discussion with Danglars, when trying to get him to admit that maybe any form of "keeping guns outside of the hands of people who used them maliciously" is acceptable. It's not an assumption, he basically admitted as much. I put this here, because as Danglars so eloquently put "this thread is not about mass shootings, it is the official TL gun control thread". And I'm replying to something on the same page as what I wrote... which is continuing a discussion.
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On March 16 2019 11:00 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 10:34 Rebs wrote:On March 16 2019 08:45 Kerotan wrote:On March 16 2019 03:10 Cricketer12 wrote:On March 16 2019 02:28 JimmiC wrote:On March 16 2019 02:18 Cricketer12 wrote:
I woke up at 4 am, checked cricinfo.com and saw a headline for the shooting. I go back to sleep, wake up a few hours later and see it being posted about by everyone. All I could think was "wait this is newsworthy"? "People are shocked by this, surprised that it happened"? Radicalization isnt happening on the fringes, the instigators are as mainstream as they come. When so many government members around the world spew hate and bigotry, what else can be expected of our citizens? Muslims, don't take this as an opportunity to invite pity, recognize what is happening and what we are doing wrong and fix it. Can you clarify your last sentence. It sort of reads like you are blaming the Muslims. Sure. First let me clarify that I include myself in all of this. We have two things we need to work on political and social engagement. Muslims need to be active in their neighborhoods and communities. Show everyone how normal we are. How many Americans still don't know anyone in their life who is Muslim. People fear what they dont know. Invite your neighbor over for dinner etc. Reflect on why the West views us so negatively and figure out how to change that mentality. I'm not saying 70 people got shot because of our faults, but I am saying people will continue to get hurt until we do our part. Believe me when I say many Muslims have done loads in this regard, but there are many who do nothing and overall clearly we need to do more. I almost completely disagree with this. The onus is not on Muslims to act normative. "Show everyone how normal we are. How many Americans still don't know anyone in their life who is Muslim. People fear what they dont know. Invite your neighbor over for dinner etc."This is just good practice, and therefore hard to argue against. "Reflect on why the West views us so negatively and figure out how to change that mentality"Ask yourself what the west is here. In my view the west is a pretty yucky/useless category. If someone from "the west" thinks that all Muslims follow a prophet who was a paedophile (and ergo all Muslims are bad people), it should not be on the Muslim on the street to change their minds. Which leads me to my final part: "I'm not saying 70 people got shot because of our faults, but I am saying people will continue to get hurt until we do our part.
Believe me when I say many Muslims have done loads in this regard, but there are many who do nothing and overall clearly we need to do more."You are kinda saying this. Not being murdered should not be contingent and will not be contingent on doing "your part". The sort of person that records their mass murder on film is not going to be swayed by how many open days your mosque has, outreach or how much of a community figurehead you are. On a more day to day level, then yes it might help stem verbal abuse and discrimination. My key point: No one should be coerced into behaving like archetypal white Anglo-Saxon protestant; both from a moral stand point, but also because I believe that it will be ineffective. ----- As much as as disagree, thank you for sharing - I'm in too minds about it, if being normal was effective, I would be more spilt, it would not be right, but pragmatically it would be required. I agree, I dont see why Muslims need to run a public PR campaign lifestyle to not be feared. Sure being a good neighbor is great, but being a good neighbor should just being a good neighbor. Im not particularly religious, but fuck me if I am going to go around telling people in Hijabs they should do anything outside of being regular friendly law abiding citizens to live safely. Do people not realize that there are individuals who voted for President Trump? He still has a 40+ approval rating iirc. Geert Wilders and Pamela Geller and the rest have supporters. Staying silent and doing nothing doesnt remedy the problem. It may not be fair we have to do something, but it's our reality.
On March 16 2019 12:08 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 11:00 Cricketer12 wrote:On March 16 2019 10:34 Rebs wrote:On March 16 2019 08:45 Kerotan wrote:On March 16 2019 03:10 Cricketer12 wrote:On March 16 2019 02:28 JimmiC wrote:On March 16 2019 02:18 Cricketer12 wrote:
I woke up at 4 am, checked cricinfo.com and saw a headline for the shooting. I go back to sleep, wake up a few hours later and see it being posted about by everyone. All I could think was "wait this is newsworthy"? "People are shocked by this, surprised that it happened"? Radicalization isnt happening on the fringes, the instigators are as mainstream as they come. When so many government members around the world spew hate and bigotry, what else can be expected of our citizens? Muslims, don't take this as an opportunity to invite pity, recognize what is happening and what we are doing wrong and fix it. Can you clarify your last sentence. It sort of reads like you are blaming the Muslims. Sure. First let me clarify that I include myself in all of this. We have two things we need to work on political and social engagement. Muslims need to be active in their neighborhoods and communities. Show everyone how normal we are. How many Americans still don't know anyone in their life who is Muslim. People fear what they dont know. Invite your neighbor over for dinner etc. Reflect on why the West views us so negatively and figure out how to change that mentality. I'm not saying 70 people got shot because of our faults, but I am saying people will continue to get hurt until we do our part. Believe me when I say many Muslims have done loads in this regard, but there are many who do nothing and overall clearly we need to do more. I almost completely disagree with this. The onus is not on Muslims to act normative. "Show everyone how normal we are. How many Americans still don't know anyone in their life who is Muslim. People fear what they dont know. Invite your neighbor over for dinner etc."This is just good practice, and therefore hard to argue against. "Reflect on why the West views us so negatively and figure out how to change that mentality"Ask yourself what the west is here. In my view the west is a pretty yucky/useless category. If someone from "the west" thinks that all Muslims follow a prophet who was a paedophile (and ergo all Muslims are bad people), it should not be on the Muslim on the street to change their minds. Which leads me to my final part: "I'm not saying 70 people got shot because of our faults, but I am saying people will continue to get hurt until we do our part.
Believe me when I say many Muslims have done loads in this regard, but there are many who do nothing and overall clearly we need to do more."You are kinda saying this. Not being murdered should not be contingent and will not be contingent on doing "your part". The sort of person that records their mass murder on film is not going to be swayed by how many open days your mosque has, outreach or how much of a community figurehead you are. On a more day to day level, then yes it might help stem verbal abuse and discrimination. My key point: No one should be coerced into behaving like archetypal white Anglo-Saxon protestant; both from a moral stand point, but also because I believe that it will be ineffective. ----- As much as as disagree, thank you for sharing - I'm in too minds about it, if being normal was effective, I would be more spilt, it would not be right, but pragmatically it would be required. I agree, I dont see why Muslims need to run a public PR campaign lifestyle to not be feared. Sure being a good neighbor is great, but being a good neighbor should just being a good neighbor. Im not particularly religious, but fuck me if I am going to go around telling people in Hijabs they should do anything outside of being regular friendly law abiding citizens to live safely. Do people not realize that there are individuals who voted for President Drumpf? He still has a 40+ approval rating iirc. Geert Wilders and Pamela Geller and the rest have supporters. Staying silent and doing nothing doesnt remedy the problem. It may not be fair we have to do something, but it's our reality. Do westerners go around trying to invite Muslims to their homes to show them how great there are because ISIS exists? Snipped for length...
(Just done a quick edit so that my post isn't fucking huge, also I edited this more times than I would like to admit)
I appreciate both your positions and thank you for your contributions.
To start I'm going to come back to your previous comment:
I'm not saying 70 people got shot because of our faults, but I am saying people will continue to get hurt until we do our part.
What I am saying is that "people will continue to get hurt even if we do our part." And this is not to begrudge those who do choose to educate non-Muslims, its illustrating that the problem is bigger than they are.
Its important to clarify here, why is there for a need for Muslims educate non-Muslims?
For the everyday bigotry and racism, this might be effective and its possible that this will have an effect on larger events, all terrorists are children once after all. But aside from the extreme emotional labour aspect, even just to negate small acts of Islamophobia, this approach lets non-Muslims off the hook.
Furthermore, you can do all the outreach in the world, but that won't matter squat if the audience isn't there. Do bigots and potential shooters visit mosque open days with good intentions? I don't really know.
As alluded to earlier, internationally our media culture is terrible, part of the issue being that the web is making us increasingly insular. In the most neutral sense, content algorithms want to show us more of what we want to see, and in a more realistic sense, they show us more of what someone thinks we should see.
The problem is also paradoxically global and local: your next door neighbour might like you and know you are a Muslim, but also read infowars not as a joke. (you might be one of the "good ones"). To demonstrate this: An Australian shooter in New Zealand who references Candance Owens, and we are talking about approval ratings for the US president.
Maybe there are monolithic blocks of trump voters who all watch fox news and know no Muslims. What are we supposed to? Take a nice Muslim family and parade them around America on the back of a railcar?
I agree that "we can do more than sit on our hands and be afraid", but a third option is: carry on living. Performing outreach may save your life it may not, it will likely result in a friendly community, it may well be a full time job, and it will likely leave you feeling emotionally drained, and responsible when the worst does happen.
I'm not a Muslim, so speaking from a privileged position: I don't want the illusion of control, I want actual change. I don't want the story of my life being advocacy for being not being murdered or more the extreme, being accepted. Coming from a couple of minority backgrounds, there is a lot of that in my life already: being queer in a heteronormative society is tiring!
It is good to have advocates for the Muslim community, but its not the only right thing to do, nor is it guaranteed to change anything. The way that everyone interacts with one and other has to change.
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On March 16 2019 12:09 thePunGun wrote:
I cannot comprehend, why something like this seems to have become the new normal, it's sickening.
It's 2019 and here we are...again. If we can learn anything from history, it's that humanity will never learn from history.
I wonder if the gunman grew up in a 2 parent family or if he has any family at all. I think the deterioration of the family unit increases the chaos level of a society.
i think stronger families produce less chaotic young adults.
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And is it it known whether he was vegetarian or not?
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Or even worse, did he play video games?
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Lets not forget what kind of Music he listened too.
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Nah guys, your theories are interesting and worth looking into, but I believe the fascist ideology might be the issue here.
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On March 17 2019 07:22 Nebuchad wrote:
Nah guys, your theories are interesting and worth looking into, but I believe the fascist ideology might be the issue here.
i find that really crappy, violent, broken family situations is the CAUSE. And, then being attracted to bizarre messed up ideologies is the EFFECT
i find kids that come from really fucked up family situations ... end up fucked up themselves. and they are drawn towards bizarre ideologies.
The alpha-dawg of the little high school gang i was in .... he was beaten badly by his mom frequently from age 3 to 5. his dad was around only very occasionally... like 1 day a month. he was taken out of his parents home and raised by his grandparents. He had a rage inside him I've never seen from someone who came from a good and solid 2 parent family.
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I'm sorry Jimmy but I don't think you're trying to find the cause here. I think as someone who is pretty far right you're disgusted by this terrorist and you're trying to create as much distance as possible between you and him, because it unnerves you that there are some similarities in your world views.
If you're really trying to find the cause, well you're doing it awfully wrong. You can't just throw the terrorist's family under the bus with no information like that. We don't know if they did anything wrong, we don't know if they fucked him up. We don't even know if he is fucked up: his behavior is consistent with his atrocious ideology, there is no reason to assume that he is mentally ill.
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Of course growing up in a loving family is better than growing up in an environment where everyone despises each other.
The problem here is that this idea is often used to demonize single parents or gay relationships. I do not know if that is where you wanted to go, but in my experience that is usually where "the breakdown of the family unit" leads to, and why you (Jimmy) got the reaction that you got.
The solution is not to just force people to live in unhappy marriages to achieve a return to the mystical happy family of the older days, which probably never really existed in the first place. Talk to old people about the fucked up shit that was going on in their parents household. And that is WITH the rose-tinted glasses of the years hiding reality. I know that my grandmother often tells a "funny anecdote" about how my grandfather was basically cast out and disowned by his parents and extended family because they didn't like who he wanted to marry. That was surely a very fun, well functioning family unit to live in. A lot of families at any point in time were shitty in some way or another.
The best solutions probably don't force people who don't like each other to live together forever, but instead support all types of families in being more happy and better functioning. A lot of people have a view of historical families that doesn't match very well to reality, and think that we can return to that past that never really existed.
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On March 17 2019 07:57 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm sorry Jimmy but I don't think you're trying to find the cause here. I think as someone who is pretty far right you're disgusted by this terrorist and you're trying to create as much distance as possible between you and him, because it unnerves you that there are some similarities in your world views.
If you're really trying to find the cause, well you're doing it awfully wrong. You can't just throw the terrorist's family under the bus with no information like that. We don't know if they did anything wrong, we don't know if they fucked him up. We don't even know if he is fucked up: his behavior is consistent with his atrocious ideology, there is no reason to assume that he is mentally ill.
far right? you should try reading the Canadian Politics thread. According to me Jean Chretien has been Canada's best PM in the last 50 years. Did you read in the thread what a said about Bob Rae? Do you even know anything about Chretien or Rae? If you want to dig through the US politics thread you'll find i stated Clinton as the USA's best Prez in the past 50 years with Reagan a close 2nd.
any how, If you want to have a debate about where i stand on the political spectrum... let's take it to the Canadian politics thread.
generally speaking, quality families produce better children than poor families. Generally speaking, Really fucked up violent families produce really fucked up violent kids.
i did not say this particular killer's family was bad.
Any 1 particular case can have a myriad of causes. In general, if we want to produce children who are less violent we need to have them grow up in better family environments.
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On March 17 2019 08:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:...
i did not say this particular killer's family was bad.
You didn't say precisely those words, but you speculated pretty directly about it.
On March 17 2019 03:28 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
I wonder if the gunman grew up in a 2 parent family or if he has any family at all. I think the deterioration of the family unit increases the chaos level of a society.
i think stronger families produce less chaotic young adults.
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On March 17 2019 08:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2019 07:57 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm sorry Jimmy but I don't think you're trying to find the cause here. I think as someone who is pretty far right you're disgusted by this terrorist and you're trying to create as much distance as possible between you and him, because it unnerves you that there are some similarities in your world views.
If you're really trying to find the cause, well you're doing it awfully wrong. You can't just throw the terrorist's family under the bus with no information like that. We don't know if they did anything wrong, we don't know if they fucked him up. We don't even know if he is fucked up: his behavior is consistent with his atrocious ideology, there is no reason to assume that he is mentally ill. far right? you should try reading the Canadian Politics thread. According to me Jean Chretien has been Canada's best PM in the last 50 years. Did you read in the thread what a said about Bob Rae? Do you even know anything about Chretien or Rae? If you want to dig through the US politics thread you'll find i stated Clinton as the USA's best Prez in the past 50 years with Reagan a close 2nd. any how, If you want to have a debate about where i stand on the political spectrum... let's take it to the Canadian politics thread. generally speaking, quality families produce better children than poor families. i did not say this particular killer's family was bad.
I don't want to debate who you are, that's up to you. This post reads as defensive to me and because I remember some posts from you that are in line with the far right, it felt natural to associate the two. If I'm wrong I apologize.
If you're genuinely doing this because you want to explore the cause, then... don't. This isn't helpful commentary. We have no idea how he ended up where he is, except that 8chan and online radicalization was involved. Nothing good can come out of throwing darts at his life.
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On March 17 2019 08:24 Nebuchad wrote:
If you're genuinely doing this because you want to explore the cause, then... don't. This isn't helpful commentary. We have no idea how he ended up where he is, except that 8chan and online radicalization was involved. Nothing good can come out of throwing darts at his life.
Its all in the post just above.
better families are the best preventative measure... and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
after better families ... better communities are the next best preventative measure.
On March 17 2019 08:24 Nebuchad wrote:
I don't want to debate who you are, that's up to you.
then do not speculate that i am "pretty far right". concede that you are incorrect , you do not know my politics, and move on.
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Fair enough. I shouldn't have speculated. What you're doing is wrong and I have no idea why you're doing it.
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On March 17 2019 08:37 Nebuchad wrote:
Fair enough.
ok cool. its all good.
On March 17 2019 08:37 Nebuchad wrote:
I shouldn't have speculated. What you're doing is wrong and I have no idea why you're doing it.
wrong?
its too late for this current situation. its over and done. all we can do now is figure out how to prevent future killings like this one. I've put forth my 2 best suggestions for prevention: Better families and better communities.
We should all work on being better family members and better community members. Me included.
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EPT
