|
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On July 21 2012 04:55 danl9rm wrote:
Next time someone get strangled I'll just bump the "Should people be allowed to have hands" thread.
Sorry, I guess being an American is so much a part of me the notion is just silly. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced otherwise, but it's going to take some hard as steel logic, not a bunch of thinly veiled feelings.
The difference is that with hands you can do all sort of stuff, An AK-47 is only for killing..
|
On July 21 2012 04:54 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 04:49 Leth0 wrote:On July 21 2012 04:46 semantics wrote:On July 21 2012 04:29 Leth0 wrote:
The crazy people who are hell bent on hurting other people will do it no matter what, make owning guns illegal and chances are they will still get their hands on them. In the slim chance they can't, they will find out how to make a bomb. They will use a knife, they will use their bare hands. Making guns harder to get for an average american would not stop psychotic killers from killing anyone.
This world would be a safer place if every responsible person carried in order to defend themselves and their families. It's our constitutional right (as Americans). That's a silly notion, people don't act properly when under fire even when trained. So say you can shoot a gun properly in an escalated situation, who's to say that you don't shoot though a guy and hit a child behind him? Who's to say with everyone there that 3 other people don't try the same thing and at-least one of you kill a person though collateral damage? As far as the constitution, the constitution is suppose to be a living document that reflects the nation, originally drafted with the idea of it being re done every couple generations to properly reflect the nations beliefs, not be a sacrosanct document, furthermore the right to own a gun is not guaranteed in the constitution in a historical content, rather it would be the right for states to have militias, and to some extent the right to a violent overthrow of the government if need be. It has never been interpreted about protecting you and your family from criminals. So your first objection to my right as an American citizen to own a firearm is to play the 'what if' game? Real mature. What if i saved the lives of thousands of innocent people by shooting a terrorist who was planning on blowing up a skyscraper? You answer a quite possible, probability with a silly hyperbole. It does nothing to prove you point all it does is degrade and discussion.
I thought it was pretty obvious what event I was referring to. It's funny because I thought the exact same thing about your stupid "what if" argument as soon as I read this.
The point is, if you are taking the "what if" approach to try and back up your reasoning for infringing on people's rights, then there is no point in even having the discussion.
|
On July 21 2012 04:59 ZeGzoR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 04:55 danl9rm wrote:
Next time someone get strangled I'll just bump the "Should people be allowed to have hands" thread.
Sorry, I guess being an American is so much a part of me the notion is just silly. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced otherwise, but it's going to take some hard as steel logic, not a bunch of thinly veiled feelings. The difference is that with hands you can do all sort of stuff, An AK-47 is only for killing..
I can list another use:
Shooting targets at a designated shooting range.
|
On July 21 2012 04:52 Leth0 wrote:It's absurd because...well first you are linking to a wiki page that just has stats about people dieing in firearm related deaths and nothing else. The phrase "correlation does not equal causation" comes to mind. How many of those were in self defense? How many of those were from homocidal maniacs? How many were law enforcement related? Ect.
What the hell are you babbling about?
The list simply shows countries with tighter gun control laws tend to have less gun related deaths. Period. How is that bad a thing?
Your response doesn't refute that evidence in the slightest.
|
On July 21 2012 05:00 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 04:59 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 21 2012 04:55 danl9rm wrote:
Next time someone get strangled I'll just bump the "Should people be allowed to have hands" thread.
Sorry, I guess being an American is so much a part of me the notion is just silly. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced otherwise, but it's going to take some hard as steel logic, not a bunch of thinly veiled feelings. The difference is that with hands you can do all sort of stuff, An AK-47 is only for killing.. I can list another use: Shooting targets at a designated shooting range.
You can do this with non-lethal weapons (or much less lethal).
|
|
|
On July 21 2012 04:59 ZeGzoR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 04:55 danl9rm wrote:
Next time someone get strangled I'll just bump the "Should people be allowed to have hands" thread.
Sorry, I guess being an American is so much a part of me the notion is just silly. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced otherwise, but it's going to take some hard as steel logic, not a bunch of thinly veiled feelings. The difference is that with hands you can do all sort of stuff, An AK-47 is only for killing..
I mean, I can see where you're going, and it makes sense. Thing is, though, a gun is only a tool. Like karate, that knowledge is just a tool. You don't go into situations wanting to test your techniques on everyone, but it sure is nice to have them there.
I personally don't own anything more powerful than a BB gun at the moment, but if I were to use one, it wouldn't be to kill someone, not that hastily anyway.. no way. The best use of a fire arm is to show the perpetrator you have it, at which point he decides enough is enough. Personally, I don't want the fight to be "fair" when there are 3 guys trying to break into my house and I am responsible for protecting my family. I fire a shot into the air and I bet they take off. If not, they all get one in the legs.
|
On July 21 2012 04:52 prochobo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:03 Crushinator wrote:On July 21 2012 02:55 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 21 2012 02:52 r.Evo wrote:
If someone can prove to me that guns have a peaceful purpose I'm all for letting everyone have it. Wait. Their purpose is to kill other people quite unlike a kitchen knife or an axe. Thinking about it that way makes me wonder why there's actually a discussion about it.
To protect yourself from criminals? The amount of people who shoot school shooters or people running amok in the head is surprisingly low.
Because criminals get them anyway? I'd say it will be harder if they're not everywhere. Besides that I doubt an arms race is really what people want to see. Because people go out and shoot to blow off steam. People hunt with them. Both of which are peaceful. Please get your head out of your ass. If i want to kill someone I could do it with a gun, a knife or even a fuckin pencil. And no it wouldn't be harder for them to get if they "weren't everywhere." As stated earlier these people do not own legally registered guns, meaning even if there were laws against gun ownership, they'd still have them. Many/most people who go on killing sprees actually do have legally registered guns. In countries with legal guns, it is much easier to get an illegal gun aswell, since there are many legal guns to steal. I could probably kill someone with a pencil, probably 2 with a knife, it would be damn hard to kill more than 10 without a gun though. I think the position that widespread gunownership does not increase murder rates and accidental deaths is untennable. The right to reasonable means of self-defense is a much better argument for legal firearms. In America, there's no such thing as gun registration. There is no central BAFTE database of firearms serial numbers and gun owners. It's been ruled that this is unconstitutional IIRC. Weapons which require a tax stamp are, however, registered and tracked. I don't get what you're trying to say about "illegal" gun. . . you mean stolen gun? Almost nothing is illegal in America with the right paperwork, including cannons, artillery, mortars, grenade launchers, RPGs, miniguns, etc. There are also people like me who have what's called a Curios and Relics FFL license which allows us to purchase firearms older than 50 years old in accordance with the GCA/NFA and have them shipped straight to our door. This is for the purpose of collection. I don't know if you've ever fired a gun, but it is insanely fun. Blowing off steam is a viable argument. Target shooting is very fun also. And did you know that it is also an Olympic sport? I've also read a lot of posts where people reference mass shootings and such. Most people keep or carry guns to protect their families and themselves. Many incidents happen at someone's residence where the victim may have been killed if it weren't for their gun. I think all states should be "shall issue" and adopt the Castle Doctrine. And class 3 weapons not require a tax stamp. The bad guys get full autos, why can't we?
What I was trying to say is that if guns are illegal, criminals will have a harder time obtaining a gun illegally.
I have fired guns, it was mostly just loud to me, but to each their own. I actually would be in favor of legal handguns for self-defense puproses though, if this were at all an issue in my country. Unfortunately I don't know if I've ever met anyone that agreed with me. Assault rifles and RPGs are just insane though.
|
On July 21 2012 05:03 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 05:00 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 21 2012 04:59 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 21 2012 04:55 danl9rm wrote:
Next time someone get strangled I'll just bump the "Should people be allowed to have hands" thread.
Sorry, I guess being an American is so much a part of me the notion is just silly. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced otherwise, but it's going to take some hard as steel logic, not a bunch of thinly veiled feelings. The difference is that with hands you can do all sort of stuff, An AK-47 is only for killing.. I can list another use: Shooting targets at a designated shooting range. You can do this with non-lethal weapons (or much less lethal).
Correct. You can shoot at targets with other devices, even designated non-lethal devices, but not at all in the same way that you can with lethal firearms.
I don't really see that as a strong argument. Cars are potentially lethal if misused. You can move from point A to B without a car -- but not in the same fashion, obviously.
|
On July 21 2012 05:07 danl9rm wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 04:59 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 21 2012 04:55 danl9rm wrote:
Next time someone get strangled I'll just bump the "Should people be allowed to have hands" thread.
Sorry, I guess being an American is so much a part of me the notion is just silly. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced otherwise, but it's going to take some hard as steel logic, not a bunch of thinly veiled feelings. The difference is that with hands you can do all sort of stuff, An AK-47 is only for killing.. I mean, I can see where you're going, and it makes sense. Thing is, though, a gun is only a tool. Like karate, that knowledge is just a tool. You don't go into situations wanting to test your techniques on everyone, but it sure is nice to have them there. I personally don't own anything more powerful than a BB gun at the moment, but if I were to use one, it wouldn't be to kill someone, not that hastily anyway.. no way. The best use of a fire arm is to show the perpetrator you have it, at which point he decides enough is enough. Personally, I don't want the fight to be "fair" when there are 3 guys trying to break into my house and I am responsible for protecting my family. I fire a shot into the air and I bet they take off. If not, they all get one in the legs.
Unless all 3 of them also happen to have guns, which are so easily acquired, and decide it would be more profitable to just shoot you and your entire family before they rob your home, just because you pissed them of by firing into the air. The point is that the world would be a safer place if noone, including criminals, had guns. And in alot of countries this is actually the case. It would never work in the US because there are already way to many guns going around. This is one of the reasons gun control debates are so pointless, gun control is only effective if it has been in place for a very long time.
|
|
|
On July 21 2012 05:13 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 05:03 HardlyNever wrote:On July 21 2012 05:00 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 21 2012 04:59 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 21 2012 04:55 danl9rm wrote:
Next time someone get strangled I'll just bump the "Should people be allowed to have hands" thread.
Sorry, I guess being an American is so much a part of me the notion is just silly. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced otherwise, but it's going to take some hard as steel logic, not a bunch of thinly veiled feelings. The difference is that with hands you can do all sort of stuff, An AK-47 is only for killing.. I can list another use: Shooting targets at a designated shooting range. You can do this with non-lethal weapons (or much less lethal). Correct. You can shoot at targets with other devices, even designated non-lethal devices, but not at all in the same way that you can with lethal firearms. I don't really see that as a strong argument. Cars are potentially lethal if misused. You can move from point A to B without a car -- but not in the same fashion, obviously.
Congratulations, you just posted the most common (and also the WORST) argument in "defense" of your position. You can kill someone with ANYTHING. You cant ban everything. The other sides point is that an assualt rifle is designed to KILL. It is its number 1 purpose. A cars, a knifes, a spoons, a cabbage patch dolls, etc... main purpose is not to kill someone/something with. If youre going to argue, at least use arguments that make sense.
|
On July 21 2012 05:08 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 04:52 prochobo wrote:On July 21 2012 03:03 Crushinator wrote:On July 21 2012 02:55 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 21 2012 02:52 r.Evo wrote:
If someone can prove to me that guns have a peaceful purpose I'm all for letting everyone have it. Wait. Their purpose is to kill other people quite unlike a kitchen knife or an axe. Thinking about it that way makes me wonder why there's actually a discussion about it.
To protect yourself from criminals? The amount of people who shoot school shooters or people running amok in the head is surprisingly low.
Because criminals get them anyway? I'd say it will be harder if they're not everywhere. Besides that I doubt an arms race is really what people want to see. Because people go out and shoot to blow off steam. People hunt with them. Both of which are peaceful. Please get your head out of your ass. If i want to kill someone I could do it with a gun, a knife or even a fuckin pencil. And no it wouldn't be harder for them to get if they "weren't everywhere." As stated earlier these people do not own legally registered guns, meaning even if there were laws against gun ownership, they'd still have them. Many/most people who go on killing sprees actually do have legally registered guns. In countries with legal guns, it is much easier to get an illegal gun aswell, since there are many legal guns to steal. I could probably kill someone with a pencil, probably 2 with a knife, it would be damn hard to kill more than 10 without a gun though. I think the position that widespread gunownership does not increase murder rates and accidental deaths is untennable. The right to reasonable means of self-defense is a much better argument for legal firearms. In America, there's no such thing as gun registration. There is no central BAFTE database of firearms serial numbers and gun owners. It's been ruled that this is unconstitutional IIRC. Weapons which require a tax stamp are, however, registered and tracked. I don't get what you're trying to say about "illegal" gun. . . you mean stolen gun? Almost nothing is illegal in America with the right paperwork, including cannons, artillery, mortars, grenade launchers, RPGs, miniguns, etc. There are also people like me who have what's called a Curios and Relics FFL license which allows us to purchase firearms older than 50 years old in accordance with the GCA/NFA and have them shipped straight to our door. This is for the purpose of collection. I don't know if you've ever fired a gun, but it is insanely fun. Blowing off steam is a viable argument. Target shooting is very fun also. And did you know that it is also an Olympic sport? I've also read a lot of posts where people reference mass shootings and such. Most people keep or carry guns to protect their families and themselves. Many incidents happen at someone's residence where the victim may have been killed if it weren't for their gun. I think all states should be "shall issue" and adopt the Castle Doctrine. And class 3 weapons not require a tax stamp. The bad guys get full autos, why can't we? What I was trying to say is that if guns are illegal, criminals will have a harder time obtaining a gun illegally.
This has been argued to death already and the evidence is heavily against you. See Chicago or New York, or the other countries where guns are illegal.
|
On July 21 2012 05:17 prochobo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 05:08 Crushinator wrote:On July 21 2012 04:52 prochobo wrote:On July 21 2012 03:03 Crushinator wrote:On July 21 2012 02:55 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 21 2012 02:52 r.Evo wrote:
If someone can prove to me that guns have a peaceful purpose I'm all for letting everyone have it. Wait. Their purpose is to kill other people quite unlike a kitchen knife or an axe. Thinking about it that way makes me wonder why there's actually a discussion about it.
To protect yourself from criminals? The amount of people who shoot school shooters or people running amok in the head is surprisingly low.
Because criminals get them anyway? I'd say it will be harder if they're not everywhere. Besides that I doubt an arms race is really what people want to see. Because people go out and shoot to blow off steam. People hunt with them. Both of which are peaceful. Please get your head out of your ass. If i want to kill someone I could do it with a gun, a knife or even a fuckin pencil. And no it wouldn't be harder for them to get if they "weren't everywhere." As stated earlier these people do not own legally registered guns, meaning even if there were laws against gun ownership, they'd still have them. Many/most people who go on killing sprees actually do have legally registered guns. In countries with legal guns, it is much easier to get an illegal gun aswell, since there are many legal guns to steal. I could probably kill someone with a pencil, probably 2 with a knife, it would be damn hard to kill more than 10 without a gun though. I think the position that widespread gunownership does not increase murder rates and accidental deaths is untennable. The right to reasonable means of self-defense is a much better argument for legal firearms. In America, there's no such thing as gun registration. There is no central BAFTE database of firearms serial numbers and gun owners. It's been ruled that this is unconstitutional IIRC. Weapons which require a tax stamp are, however, registered and tracked. I don't get what you're trying to say about "illegal" gun. . . you mean stolen gun? Almost nothing is illegal in America with the right paperwork, including cannons, artillery, mortars, grenade launchers, RPGs, miniguns, etc. There are also people like me who have what's called a Curios and Relics FFL license which allows us to purchase firearms older than 50 years old in accordance with the GCA/NFA and have them shipped straight to our door. This is for the purpose of collection. I don't know if you've ever fired a gun, but it is insanely fun. Blowing off steam is a viable argument. Target shooting is very fun also. And did you know that it is also an Olympic sport? I've also read a lot of posts where people reference mass shootings and such. Most people keep or carry guns to protect their families and themselves. Many incidents happen at someone's residence where the victim may have been killed if it weren't for their gun. I think all states should be "shall issue" and adopt the Castle Doctrine. And class 3 weapons not require a tax stamp. The bad guys get full autos, why can't we? What I was trying to say is that if guns are illegal, criminals will have a harder time obtaining a gun illegally. This has been argued to death already and the evidence is heavily against you. See Chicago or New York, or the other countries where guns are illegal.
I am interested in looking at this evidence, because it would be in conflict with my common sense.
|
On July 21 2012 05:17 Focuspants wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 05:13 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 21 2012 05:03 HardlyNever wrote:On July 21 2012 05:00 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 21 2012 04:59 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 21 2012 04:55 danl9rm wrote:
Next time someone get strangled I'll just bump the "Should people be allowed to have hands" thread.
Sorry, I guess being an American is so much a part of me the notion is just silly. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced otherwise, but it's going to take some hard as steel logic, not a bunch of thinly veiled feelings. The difference is that with hands you can do all sort of stuff, An AK-47 is only for killing.. I can list another use: Shooting targets at a designated shooting range. You can do this with non-lethal weapons (or much less lethal). Correct. You can shoot at targets with other devices, even designated non-lethal devices, but not at all in the same way that you can with lethal firearms. I don't really see that as a strong argument. Cars are potentially lethal if misused. You can move from point A to B without a car -- but not in the same fashion, obviously. Congratulations, you just posted the most common (and also the WORST) argument in "defense" of your statement. You can kill someone with ANYTHING. You cant ban everything. The other sides point is that an assualt rifle is designed to KILL. It is its number 1 purpose. A cars, a knifes, a spoons, a cabbage patch dolls, etc... main purpose is not to kill someone/something with. If youre going to argue, at least use arguments that make sense.
Cite your sources that semi-automatic, non-military, civilian AK-47 and other rifle models' primary use is to kill other people. I think you made that up, but correct me if I am wrong.
As far as I know, they are intended to be used for hunting and target shooting, given the nature of the stores in which they are sold -- sporting goods stores. My reference to a car is a sound reference with regard to the post to which I was responding. No need to get emotional and congratulate me in a condescending fashion when you aren't even getting the brunt of what I said.
Military weapons are intended to kill people. Civilian weapons are not, unless they are expressly advertised as "self defense" weapons. "Self defense" weapons typically include handguns, not long rifles.
|
On February 20 2012 08:57 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 08:42 Domus wrote:
Just some facts....Yes, gun ownership sounds like a great plan....
In 2007, guns took the lives of 31,224 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings. This is the equivalent of more than 85 deaths each day and more than three deaths each hour.
69,863 Americans were treated in hospital emergency department for non-fatal gunshot wounds in 2007.
Firearms were the third-leading cause of injury-related deaths nationwide in 2007, following motor vehicle accidents and poisoning.
Between 1955 and 1975, the Vietnam War killed over 58,000 American soldiers – less than the number of civilians killed with guns in the U.S. in an average two-year period.
In the first seven years of the U.S.-Iraq War, over 4,400 American soldiers were killed. Almost as many civilians are killed with guns in the U.S., however, every seven weeks.
In 2007, guns were the cause of the unintentional deaths of 613 people.
From 2001 through 2007, over 4,900 people in the United States died from unintentional shootings.
Over 1,750 victims of unintentional shootings between 2001 and 2007 were under 25 years of age.
People of all age groups are significantly more likely to die from unintentional firearm injuries when they live in states with more guns, relative to states with fewer guns. On average, states with the highest gun levels had nine times the rate of unintentional firearms deaths compared to states with the lowest gun levels.
A federal government study of unintentional shootings found that 8% of such shooting deaths resulted from shots fired by children under the age of six.
The U.S. General Accounting Office has estimated that 31% of unintentional deaths caused by firearms might be prevented by the addition of two devices: a child-proof safety lock (8%) and a loading indicator (23%). How many people die to alcohol-related accidents? http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_alcohol_related_deaths_occur_each_yearAlcohol is directly responsible for over three times as many deaths each year as guns. Why no outcry for banning alcohol? Further, 31,000 deaths a year is an inconsequential number in a nation of over 300 million people. Even the 100k deaths caused by alcohol is inconsequential with a population this large, so imho, we should ban neither. If you want to ban guns though, because they cause so much death, you should also want to ban alcohol, which causes three times as much death.
We've already tried banning alcohol... woopsie.
I'm not sure banning guns would have the same effect, but I'm going to have to think about it more.
|
On July 21 2012 05:14 Tarias wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 05:07 danl9rm wrote:On July 21 2012 04:59 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 21 2012 04:55 danl9rm wrote:
Next time someone get strangled I'll just bump the "Should people be allowed to have hands" thread.
Sorry, I guess being an American is so much a part of me the notion is just silly. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced otherwise, but it's going to take some hard as steel logic, not a bunch of thinly veiled feelings. The difference is that with hands you can do all sort of stuff, An AK-47 is only for killing.. I mean, I can see where you're going, and it makes sense. Thing is, though, a gun is only a tool. Like karate, that knowledge is just a tool. You don't go into situations wanting to test your techniques on everyone, but it sure is nice to have them there. I personally don't own anything more powerful than a BB gun at the moment, but if I were to use one, it wouldn't be to kill someone, not that hastily anyway.. no way. The best use of a fire arm is to show the perpetrator you have it, at which point he decides enough is enough. Personally, I don't want the fight to be "fair" when there are 3 guys trying to break into my house and I am responsible for protecting my family. I fire a shot into the air and I bet they take off. If not, they all get one in the legs. Unless all 3 of them also happen to have guns, which are so easily acquired, and decide it would be more profitable to just shoot you and your entire family before they rob your home, just because you pissed them of by firing into the air. The point is that the world would be a safer place if noone, including criminals, had guns. And in alot of countries this is actually the case. It would never work in the US because there are already way to many guns going around. This is one of the reasons gun control debates are so pointless, gun control is only effective if it has been in place for a very long time.
What's the difference between all 3 of them shooting me and my family because they didn't like me firing in the air, or all 3 of them shooting me and my family because they didn't like me going down (3 to 1) swinging like a gorilla?
I don't think you can answer that.
Your argument appears to be, "the world would be safer if guns didn't exist." Well, we can't turn back the clock, man. Guns exist, nuclear bombs exist. Going forward, please.
|
Here's what it boils down to for me.
"Guns are made for killing"
Well, yea. I don't think many people would argue that the point of a gun is to shoot a bullet, and the bullet is meant to do damage to a target whether it be an animal, a person, or just a random thing you are shooting at, but that is sort of the point.
I would rather have my right to carry a gun that I never have to use. Then to not have it in that one time where it could of been the difference between life and death , for me or my family / friends (no matter how small of a chance that is of happening),and I most certainly would not ever think of putting anyone else in that situation just for some 'peace of mind' that the world is a safer place because of it.
|
On July 21 2012 05:19 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 05:17 prochobo wrote:On July 21 2012 05:08 Crushinator wrote:On July 21 2012 04:52 prochobo wrote:On July 21 2012 03:03 Crushinator wrote:On July 21 2012 02:55 Infernal_dream wrote:On July 21 2012 02:52 r.Evo wrote:
If someone can prove to me that guns have a peaceful purpose I'm all for letting everyone have it. Wait. Their purpose is to kill other people quite unlike a kitchen knife or an axe. Thinking about it that way makes me wonder why there's actually a discussion about it.
To protect yourself from criminals? The amount of people who shoot school shooters or people running amok in the head is surprisingly low.
Because criminals get them anyway? I'd say it will be harder if they're not everywhere. Besides that I doubt an arms race is really what people want to see. Because people go out and shoot to blow off steam. People hunt with them. Both of which are peaceful. Please get your head out of your ass. If i want to kill someone I could do it with a gun, a knife or even a fuckin pencil. And no it wouldn't be harder for them to get if they "weren't everywhere." As stated earlier these people do not own legally registered guns, meaning even if there were laws against gun ownership, they'd still have them. Many/most people who go on killing sprees actually do have legally registered guns. In countries with legal guns, it is much easier to get an illegal gun aswell, since there are many legal guns to steal. I could probably kill someone with a pencil, probably 2 with a knife, it would be damn hard to kill more than 10 without a gun though. I think the position that widespread gunownership does not increase murder rates and accidental deaths is untennable. The right to reasonable means of self-defense is a much better argument for legal firearms. In America, there's no such thing as gun registration. There is no central BAFTE database of firearms serial numbers and gun owners. It's been ruled that this is unconstitutional IIRC. Weapons which require a tax stamp are, however, registered and tracked. I don't get what you're trying to say about "illegal" gun. . . you mean stolen gun? Almost nothing is illegal in America with the right paperwork, including cannons, artillery, mortars, grenade launchers, RPGs, miniguns, etc. There are also people like me who have what's called a Curios and Relics FFL license which allows us to purchase firearms older than 50 years old in accordance with the GCA/NFA and have them shipped straight to our door. This is for the purpose of collection. I don't know if you've ever fired a gun, but it is insanely fun. Blowing off steam is a viable argument. Target shooting is very fun also. And did you know that it is also an Olympic sport? I've also read a lot of posts where people reference mass shootings and such. Most people keep or carry guns to protect their families and themselves. Many incidents happen at someone's residence where the victim may have been killed if it weren't for their gun. I think all states should be "shall issue" and adopt the Castle Doctrine. And class 3 weapons not require a tax stamp. The bad guys get full autos, why can't we? What I was trying to say is that if guns are illegal, criminals will have a harder time obtaining a gun illegally. This has been argued to death already and the evidence is heavily against you. See Chicago or New York, or the other countries where guns are illegal. I am interested in looking at this evidence, because it would be in conflict with my common sense.
See the OP.
On July 21 2012 05:17 leo23 wrote:my hero
This is why people carry, because you never know what's going to happen. I had to LOL about the guy getting shot in the ass. It also looked like the old man shot at the perp after he exited the premises and almost literally in the back. Good to know Florida justifies that (not being sarcastic).
|
On July 21 2012 05:22 Leth0 wrote:
Here's what it boils down to for me.
"Guns are made for killing"
Some people are wrongly arguing that civilian model weapons are primarily intended to kill other people. That is simply not the case. The two primary intended uses are: hunting & sport shooting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
