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On October 09 2015 08:15 evilfatsh1t wrote: i cannot believe how easily some people justify killing criminals simply because "he broke into my house". and then they actually talk about how the rest of us dont have respect for human lives. that is actually hilarious the self righteousness, selfishness and downright power hungryness of some americans is astounding i would actually put my annual salary on the fact that some americans probably buy guns and hope for an intruder so that they get to 'legitimately' kill someone. hes a murderer, but in the eyes of the law hes a 'law abiding citizen', right?
Okay let's dial it back a bit here yea?
I'm for a significant amount of gun control okay. Really... I am. I am also of the notion that if some guy BROKE INTO MY HOUSE while I am inside said house with my family they have basically forfeited their lives.
It isn't about the property. I don't give a shit about it. What I do care about is my family. Do most people break into your house to steal shit? Yep. Do some few go ahead and kill the whole family? Also yep. Do I really want to risk my family on the hope that the guy that just broke into my house is just there for my stuff? No... No not at all.
There is a big reason why most burglaries don't actually happen at night...they happen during the day when people are at work and the chance to run into someone is much lower. Doing burglaries at night is a good way to get shot and even most criminals acknowledge this. I don't relish the idea of killing someone by any stretch but nor will I have a deep emotional cry fest over it if someone breaks into my house at night. They could have just not done it in the first place.
There is a risk involved and I'm not leaving the survival of my 8 week old daughter up to sheer dumb chance. Now on the other token I have hundreds of hours of training with my firearm as well as stress inoculation. I honestly think this should be a requirement to own a gun at the very least. Most Americans have long lost the discipline needed to own a gun.
I'm not in an agreement of Texas theft in the night allowance of lethal force... It's just property. If they break into my house? Yea... Bets off man. Sorry.
On October 09 2015 08:15 evilfatsh1t wrote: i cannot believe how easily some people justify killing criminals simply because "he broke into my house". and then they actually talk about how the rest of us dont have respect for human lives. that is actually hilarious the self righteousness, selfishness and downright power hungryness of some americans is astounding i would actually put my annual salary on the fact that some americans probably buy guns and hope for an intruder so that they get to 'legitimately' kill someone. hes a murderer, but in the eyes of the law hes a 'law abiding citizen', right?
Okay let's dial it back a bit here yea?
I'm for a significant amount of gun control okay. Really... I am. I am also of the notion that if some guy BROKE INTO MY HOUSE while I am inside said house with my family they have basically forfeited their lives.
It isn't about the property. I don't give a shit about it. What I do care about is my family. Do most people break into your house to steal shit? Yep. Do some few go ahead and kill the whole family? Also yep. Do I really want to risk my family on the hope that the guy that just broke into my house is just there for my stuff? No... No not at all.
There is a big reason why most burglaries don't actually happen at night...they happen during the day when people are at work and the chance to run into someone is much lower. Doing burglaries at night is a good way to get shot and even most criminals acknowledge this. I don't relish the idea of killing someone by any stretch but nor will I have a deep emotional cry fest over it if someone breaks into my house at night. They could have just not done it in the first place.
There is a risk involved and I'm not leaving the survival of my 8 week old daughter up to sheer dumb chance. Now on the other token I have hundreds of hours of training with my firearm as well as stress inoculation. I honestly think this should be a requirement to own a gun at the very least. Most Americans have long lost the discipline needed to own a gun.
I'm not in an agreement of Texas theft in the night allowance of lethal force... It's just property. If they break into my house? Yea... Bets off man. Sorry.
Repeating the same argument again. This way of thinking is statistically actually more likely to get your family killed. While it might turn the crazy axemurderer breaking into your house to paint the walls red situation into a 50-50 of being dead rather than everyone being dead it also turns the dude breaking into your house to steal your radio situation into a 50-50 chance of being dead. Which do you think is more common?
People don't break into fucking houses to kill people as a rule. If they do in your neighbourhood then a firearm isn't going to help you.
On February 20 2012 03:11 isleyofthenorth wrote: i think the liberal stance the US and switzerland have for example are terrible
It works really well in Switzerland, because there the people are happy and affluent and the media doesn't live on fear-mongering and division.
Plus in switzerland they don't store the ammunition in their house. The "schweizer heimwehr" is a thing which means everyone keeps his gun from military service at home, but the ammunition is stored by the goverment.
On October 09 2015 19:39 DickMcFanny wrote: People in Canada store their ammunition at home and they don't have shootings like that on a monthly basis.
I'm not saying gun control wouldn't make the people more safe, but gun control addresses a symptom and not the disease.
Sure, I wasn't denieing that. I just felt the need to explain the switzerland thing as it gets often pulled as an argument for lighter laws on guns over here. Those people always "forget" to mention that they don't keep the ammunition at home which would evaporate their whole argument. That guns in itself are not the only problem is a no brainer, I agree to that.
a) 2 party system where you have to pick a side. People (weather it be individuals, politicians or media) can't vocally take a stance that doesn't "match their side".
b) The idea that "government" is an enemy.
I'm not for a full gun ban (despite being raised as a pacifist). I don't have a problem with guns either for hobby or hunting (I'm on the fence about deadly forms of self-defense).
I just don't understand anyone besides the gun manufactures/sellers being against "making it harder to obtain guns". How is that in any way bad?
On October 09 2015 22:20 always_winter wrote: As an avid proponent of increased gun regulation, I can't help but laugh at all of these experts on American culture and society.
I have tried to follow some debates on gun control in youtube and some other media to see what opinions people have their andhow they argue it. Of course they are not as civilized or even intelligent as here (the published debate may be, the comments are not), but it's frigthening how deeply divided your country seems to be.
I know, it's yahoo news etc. If you look at the comments, there are so many people stating the trespasser forfeited his life just there. No questions asked, no remorse, ne regrets. I mean, there are scenarios where i would say that shooting a person in your own home is self defense and morally acceptable. This is not. If there are really millions of Americans who think that way, the american society will not change even though there are more then enough Americans who disagree with them.
On October 09 2015 22:29 Broetchenholer wrote: I have tried to follow some debates on gun control in youtube and some other media to see what opinions people have their andhow they argue it. Of course they are not as civilized or even intelligent as here (the published debate may be, the comments are not), but it's frigthening how deeply divided your country seems to be.
I know, it's yahoo news etc. If you look at the comments, there are so many people stating the trespasser forfeited his life just there. No questions asked, no remorse, ne regrets. I mean, there are scenarios where i would say that shooting a person in your own home is self defense and morally acceptable. This is not. If there are really millions of Americans who think that way, the american society will not change even though there are more then enough Americans who disagree with them.
On the internet everyone is a bad ass action movie hero that would take the life of a home invader without remorse. This is don't translate directly into real life.
On October 09 2015 22:20 always_winter wrote: As an avid proponent of increased gun regulation, I can't help but laugh at all of these experts on American culture and society.
You took the time to laugh and reply but not add to the discussion. Why?
On October 09 2015 22:20 always_winter wrote: As an avid proponent of increased gun regulation, I can't help but laugh at all of these experts on American culture and society.
Nice... argument? Input? Vapid little utterance?
You took the time to laugh and reply but not add to the discussion. Why?
I had actually begun to address some of the expertise I was alluding to, then thought better of it as I realized these brave men and women are assuredly more well-versed in American life than myself, and wouldn't hesitate to rebuke any insight I offer with superior insight of their own. Such is the grace of TL politics.
There could be the fact Switzerland is less populous than NYC; Canada less than the state of California. There could be the fact these gun cultures are far more homogenous and lack the intercultural nuances and social divides present in a nation as vibrantly diverse as the United States, so complex in their nature that even per capita comparisons fail to provide a glimpse into the larger picture. There could be the fact public opinion is not so black-and-white as Fox News vs MSNBC would lead one to believe, and the two-party system, while degenerative, does not prohibit overlapping ideologies and independent thought.
I could even go a step further and suggest the belief that the dollar's corrupt hand is not only pulling the strings behind American politics, but global politics at large and although certainly more pronounced within the world's most significant player, it is an incredibly naïve assumption to believe corruption could be confined to a single market.
But I'm not going to do that, and those facts are moot. I am a victim of my American upbringing, a pawn to my corrupt government and a dim light awaiting illumination by the enlightenment of the TL experts.
And yet here you are, for all you have written, you have declined to add to the discussion, except to say that others are wrong. It's amazing how much one can write for so little communicated. Well done.
On October 09 2015 22:20 always_winter wrote: As an avid proponent of increased gun regulation, I can't help but laugh at all of these experts on American culture and society.
You took the time to laugh and reply but not add to the discussion. Why?
I had actually begun to address some of the expertise I was alluding to, then thought better of it as I realized these brave men and women are assuredly more well-versed in American life than myself, and wouldn't hesitate to rebuke any insight I offer with superior insight of their own. Such is the grace of TL politics.
There could be the fact Switzerland is less populous than NYC; Canada less than the state of California. There could be the fact these gun cultures are far more homogenous and lack the intercultural nuances and social divides present in a nation as vibrantly diverse as the United States, so complex in their nature that even per capita comparisons fail to provide a glimpse into the larger picture. There could be the fact public opinion is not so black-and-white as Fox News vs MSNBC would lead one to believe, and the two-party system, while degenerative, does not prohibit overlapping ideologies and independent thought.
I could even go a step further and suggest the belief that the dollar's corrupt hand is not only pulling the strings behind American politics, but global politics at large and although certainly more pronounced within the world's most significant player, it is an incredibly naïve assumption to believe corruption could be confined to a single market.
But I'm not going to do that, and those facts are moot. I am a victim of my American upbringing, a pawn to my corrupt government and a dim light awaiting illumination by the enlightenment of the TL experts.
I'll address the part that pertains to my comment. I'm the only person I know that's changed their political affiliation and voted for presidents on both sides. (Oh right, despite now living in Finland I'm American and grew up in a heavily conservative part of California.) A few of my friends (from either side) are able to rationally discuss opposing views and some will even admit that they might be reasonable. Most cannot. For anyone in a political position it's practically career suicide to agree with the other party. A majority of people don't fully agree with Fox News or Bill Maher but if either turns on someone they're done politically.
EPT
