EPTAlso the reasoning come from the defenders are really dumb and retarded.
If you're seeing this topic then another mass shooting hap…
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
Also the reasoning come from the defenders are really dumb and retarded. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10823 Posts
Your answer to that is that only europeans see this as a "Problem"? Thats not an answer. NONE of the points in your post holds up to reality. Not even protection against wild animals is a REAL concern, except when you actually move out of your village into the wild, then a hunting rifle or one of these jumbo sized pepper sprays still would do, even in Arizona (or the Amazon for that matter). Why you should Change? Because thousands of People die due to the fantasy world gunnuts create for themselves where they actually Need (semi)-automatic weapons as "deterrent". And could you please tell me for what the UZI was is designed if not for killing People? As a "deterrent" 600 rounds/min seems a tiny bit over the top, except when you plan to piss of 1X+ People and would want to spray them down (which most likely means that your actually the offender/maniac in the first place). | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
An UZI is primarily used for killing human beings. Shouldn't you learn your children that violence is wrong? When will they'd ever need to use an UZI irl? These are only used in the military where they teach you to use these anyway and in gangs. Prepping your children for gang life? :-S So it's just for fun then. This is VERY, VERY, wrong in my opinion. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On August 27 2014 19:36 Penev wrote: Well, tbh, I posted this because despite knowing the much less harsh laws on gun possession in the US than where I'm from (Netherlands) I had no idea that you could let your 8 year old shoot a ff-ing UZI legally, at least in Arizona. An UZI is primarily used for killing human beings. Shouldn't you learn your children that violence is wrong? When will they'd ever need to use an UZI irl? These are only used in the military where they teach you to use these anyway and in gangs. Prepping your children for gang life? :-S So it's just for fun then. This is VERY, VERY, wrong in my opinion. A gun is a gun, It's a logical fallacy to say that guns = violence. Shooting people with guns is violence. And this "when will they ever need it irl" argument is just as shit. People go skydiving, when are you ever going to fall through the sky in real life? Or are you prepping those people to be special forces paratroopers too? --- When I taught my little sister to shoot, I started her on a .22 pistol, with only one round loaded. Everytime we moved up a calibre, I made sure to only load one round until I was satisfied she could safely handle it. It's a tragic accident that could have been prevented. As usual, the gungrabbers come out in force pointing at it as if there's some pandemic of uzi accidents. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On August 27 2014 19:26 Velr wrote: Your argument doesn't hold up and is totally taken out of your ass. Your answer to that is that only europeans see this as a "Problem"? Thats not an answer. NONE of the points in your post holds up to reality. Not even protection against wild animals is a REAL concern, except when you actually move out of your village into the wild, then a hunting rifle or one of these jumbo sized pepper sprays still would do, even in Arizona (or the Amazon for that matter). Why you should Change? Because thousands of People die due to the fantasy world gunnuts create for themselves where they actually Need (semi)-automatic weapons as "deterrent". And could you please tell me for what the UZI was is designed if not for killing People? As a "deterrent" 600 rounds/min seems a tiny bit over the top, except when you plan to piss of 1X+ People and would want to spray them down (which most likely means that your actually the offender/maniac in the first place). The problem is you are confusing the gun-nuts with the people who are legitimately responsible gun owners. Penalizing responsible gun owners becuase the gun-nuts are being stupid is stupid itself. Furthermore, I would like to point towards the fact that Switzerland is a country where you almost have literally an assault rifle in every single household, yet you don't have problems with gun-nuts. The answer is because those rifles are there given by the military. The Swiss military gives guns out to responsible people who have been taught how to use the gun and what it's for. Notice the trend? Responsible gun owners aren't a problem. Irresponsible gun owners are the cause of the problems. You could have told me that with gun laws, we wouldn't have school shootings. That's probably the most legitimate argument for gun control laws. Yet not a single person up until now has brought it up. I think it shows how little you people are aware of the issue. You'll notice the lack of school shootings in Switzerland, by the way. I might as well say it again. It's irresponsibilty that is the problem, not the guns themselves. Furthermore, I am not backing up the person who let an 8 year old use an Uzi. That would be an example of irresponsibility, if anything. I'm not condoning giving military weapons to children to play with, please don't put words in my mouth. I do believe that teaching children about the usage of guns, starting with something small under the guidance of someone responsible, is a good thing. | ||
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misirlou
Portugal3241 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On August 27 2014 19:48 misirlou wrote: I'll just leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE Very funny, a Daily Show clip. Nice. | ||
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Oshuy
Netherlands529 Posts
On August 27 2014 19:20 Incognoto wrote: There have been studies done about guns against violence in the USA. Read up a bit before calling other people dumb without bringing anything else to the table. There have been studies on both sides of the debate, getting to their respective target conclusion by just twisting some of the inputs. All we can say is data is unconclusive. The fact that the child may get access to a weapon at home is a fault : that should never happen, regardless of whether the firearms are allowed or not. I agree that if you are in a situation where you both have weapons allowed and you know you won't be able to prevent children from getting access to them, then it's important to teach the children about firearm safety to avoid accidents. But: teaching how to avoid accidents and teaching how to safely use a weapon are two very different things. Intent for safety should not be to have the child actually fire the weapon. The choice of weapon is also not a good one for such a lesson, unless the parents in this case actually have uzis available for grab in the house. The fact that they get the child to fire an uzi means to me this is recreation shooting, not a safety class. That sounds more dangerous ; if you teach that it's fun to use a gun, the child might be more likely to grab a gun at home for play. I guess the parents that are in recreation shooting will actually have more control over their own firearms though, so it's hard to get a clear view on the risk. The main point is that selecting an uzi set to auto is a major mistake, whatever the context. | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
On August 27 2014 19:44 ahswtini wrote: A gun is a gun, It's a logical fallacy to say that guns = violence. Shooting people with guns is violence. And this "when will they ever need it irl" argument is just as shit. People go skydiving, when are you ever going to fall through the sky in real life? Or are you prepping those people to be special forces paratroopers too? --- When I taught my little sister to shoot, I started her on a .22 pistol, with only one round loaded. Everytime we moved up a calibre, I made sure to only load one round until I was satisfied she could safely handle it. It's a tragic accident that could have been prevented. As usual, the gungrabbers come out in force pointing at it as if there's some pandemic of uzi accidents. In understand that in, let's say Canada, you should be able to teach hunting rifle usage to teens (NOT 8 y-olds!). A gun is not just a gun. Even in the US not all guns are allowed. What was the reason for you to teach your little sister to shoot a gun if I may ask? You go skydiving because it's fun. Shooting an UZI should not be taught to children as a means of fun. Talking about logical fallacies wow. Oo | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On August 27 2014 19:54 Penev wrote: In understand that in, let's say Canada, you should be able to teach hunting rifle usage to teens (NOT 8 y-olds!). A gun is not just a gun. Even in the US not all guns are allowed. What was the reason for you to teach your little sister to shoot a gun if I may ask? You go skydiving because it's fun. Shooting an UZI should not be taught to children as a means of fun. Talking about logical fallacies wow. Oo You get to decide what activities can be legitimately categorised as fun? It's exactly the arrogant meddling people in power that have your mindset that I despise. I taught my sister to shoot because it's my hobby and I wanted to share it with her. | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
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micronesia
United States24747 Posts
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Penev
28512 Posts
On August 27 2014 20:21 micronesia wrote: In any part of the USA I've ever been you aren't allowed to hold/fire an Uzi lol wtf. That incident hardly has any bearing on what gun laws should be in the majority of the USA. Do you know, apart from Arizona, what states do allow this? A quick search gives that in 37 states one can buy a machine gun legally (as an adult). Nothing yet on age restriction on shooting ranges | ||
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micronesia
United States24747 Posts
On August 27 2014 20:24 Penev wrote: Do you know, apart from Arizona, what states do allow this? A quick search gives that in 37 states one can buy a machine gun legally (as an adult). Nothing yet on age restriction on shooting ranges Can you source this? That number sounds awfully high... usually there are just very rare exceptions where some locales allow you to get horribly expensive permits which allow you to own and use fully-automatic weapons... and there is almost never a news story of someone getting hurt that way. | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
On August 27 2014 20:30 micronesia wrote: Can you source this? That number sounds awfully high... usually there are just very rare exceptions where some locales allow you to get horribly expensive permits which allow you to own and use fully-automatic weapons... and there is almost never a news story of someone getting hurt that way. Yahoo answers  It's not super easy obviously.+ Show Spoiler + You can purchase a machine gun from a licensed dealer with an SOT (commonly called a Class 3 license) or you can purchase from another private citizen who is a resident of your state. You have to live in a state that permits machine guns under state law. About 37 states allow it. Here is a short version of how to buy one: To legally purchase a machine gun or any item falling under the purview of the NFA, you must be at least 21 years of age (18 if purchasing in a private sale), a resident of the United States, and have no felony record. The first step is to locate a Class 3 dealer in your state who either has or will order the item you are interested in or a private citizen in your state with a machine gun for sale. Once the price has been settled on, you will need two ATF Form 4's, two sets of fingerprint cards and a Certificate of Compliance. The Form 4's must be filled out on both sides, with passport photos of the prospective buyer affixed to the backside of the form. The buyer then has the Chief Law-Enforcement officer sign the rear of the Form 4's attesting the prospective purchaser does not possess a criminal record and is not wanted. The two fingerprint cards must be completed and signed by a Law Enforcement agency. The completed paperwork is then sent to the Department of the Treasury with a check or money order for $200.00. The $200.00 is known as a "transfer tax" because it must be paid whenever ownership of the silencer is "transferred" (in this case, the dealer to the prospective purchaser). As long as ownership remains with the same person, the tax need not be paid again. Only if the owner sells it will a new transfer tax need to be paid. An owner may will his machine gun to a lawful heir with no tax incurred. Once the paper work is submitted, it normally takes 60 to 120 days to receive the approved, stamped paperwork from the NFA Branch. It is only upon the return of the approved paperwork that the seller can allow the prospective purchaser to take possession of their new machine gun. A copy of the approved paperwork must accompany the machine gun at all times (the original should be stored in a safe deposit box). Machine guns can be transported to other states that allow their ownership with prior ATF approval, but to transport a machine gun into one of the states which prohibit private ownership can subject the owner to serious state felony charges. Also, for a machine gun to be legal for a private citizen to own it has to have been imported and registered prior to 1968, or manufactured in the U.S. and registered prior to May 1986. This is the reason for the high prices. Uzi machine guns sell for about $6,000 to 10,000 and depending on the make and condition. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091112174158AAALmXM Edit: You make it sound easy. You need to find a class III dealer and then get it approved both by the Feds and your local law enforcement. This isn't as easy as it sounds like, not to mention a fully automatic legal gun costs thousands of dollars on top of the fees that you have to pay to get the gun. Most legal fully automatic weapons that are bought and approved are actually never used in crimes. Illegal weapons on the other hand are much more common. I didn't (mean to) make it sound like anything. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On August 27 2014 20:24 Penev wrote: Do you know, apart from Arizona, what states do allow this? A quick search gives that in 37 states one can buy a machine gun legally (as an adult). Nothing yet on age restriction on shooting ranges You make it sound easy. You need to find a class III dealer and then get it approved both by the Feds and your local law enforcement. This isn't as easy as it sounds like, not to mention a fully automatic legal gun costs thousands of dollars on top of the fees that you have to pay to get the gun. Most legal fully automatic weapons that are bought and approved are actually never used in crimes. Illegal weapons on the other hand are much more common. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On August 27 2014 20:39 superstartran wrote: You make it sound easy. You need to find a class III dealer and then get it approved both by the Feds and your local law enforcement. This isn't as easy as it sounds like, not to mention a fully automatic legal gun costs thousands of dollars on top of the fees that you have to pay to get the gun. Most legal fully automatic weapons that are bought and approved are actually never used in crimes. Illegal weapons on the other hand are much more common. It would be stupid to use a registered weapon for a crime, it's a huge lead for the authorities. I'm flabbergasted I've never even thought of that, but it's so painfully obvious it hurts. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
Legal ownership of guns does not cause mass murders, but it facilitates them (unlike skydiving or swimming pools, by the way, which also result in deaths). What is equally facilitating is the American culture of idolising guns. This is a completely foreign idea to the people of Switzerland and other gun-owning countries in Europe, who respect their weapons for the lethal tools that they are. Giving young girls bright pink assault rifles at an age when they're too young to question the judgment of their parents is irresponsible and indoctrination. Gun worship, immense inequality, high crime rates, terrible psychiatric and mental health record, macho culture, blind allegiance to an outdated political document. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. By the way, the argument of 'freedom', which is often shoved down my throat as though I have no concept of it, being from outside the US, is total bullshit. It is the nature of society that certain freedoms are taken away from you and certain decisions are made for you in order to protect yourself and others. Take an example: as an American citizen you do not have the freedom to cross a road without a traffic light (a baffling concept to anybody from the UK). And where does that freedom end, anyway? There's nothing inherently dangerous in your owning Tomahawk missiles providing that you don't use them on other people. At some point you're going to admit that it's a bad idea for citizens to own certain types of weaponry. Why do assault rifles not fit that bill? Why do handguns not fit that bill? They'll only kill a few dozen people with this kind of weaponry, I suppose. An acceptable loss. | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
On August 27 2014 19:58 ahswtini wrote: You get to decide what activities can be legitimately categorised as fun? It's exactly the arrogant meddling people in power that have your mindset that I despise. I taught my sister to shoot because it's my hobby and I wanted to share it with her. With a gun all you have to do is move your finger an inch and somebody could die? But I imagine that's totally insignificant compared to the utility you gain when you shoot as a hobby, right? It's exactly the crazy selfish people that have your mindset that I despise. On August 27 2014 19:47 Incognoto wrote: The problem is you are confusing the gun-nuts with the people who are legitimately responsible gun owners. Penalizing responsible gun owners becuase the gun-nuts are being stupid is stupid itself. Using this logic, if there was just one responsible gun owner in a city of thousands of gun nuts, the government wouldn't be able to pass a law restricting firearms? Laws are and should be made with the public good in mind. As a citizen you should prepared to accept inconveniences in the name of public safety. I don't pack bombs or dangerous chemicals in my bags when I go on a plane, but you don't see me bitching about having to line up past security. | ||
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