|
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
I thought that this was an interesting read:
http://reason.com/reasontv/2013/01/10/reasons-5-facts-on-guns-and-gun-violence
+ Show Spoiler +"In the wake of December’s horrific mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, Vice President Joe Biden is chairing a panel of experts that will make gun-control recommendations to President Barack Obama by the end of the month. The president has said that enacting new restrictions on guns will be one of his highest priorities.
No one wants to ever again see anything like the senseless slaughter of 26 people – including 20 children - at a school. But as legislators turn toward creating new gun laws, here are five facts they need to know.
1. Violent crime – including violent crime using guns – has dropped massively over the past 20 years.
The violent crime rate - which includes murder, rape, and beatings - is half of what it was in the early 1990s. And the violent crime rate involving the use of weapons has also declined at a similar pace.
2. Mass shootings have not increased in recent years.
Despite terrifying events like Sandy Hook or last summer’s theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado, mass shootings are not becoming more frequent. “There is no pattern, there is no increase,” says criminologist James Allen Fox of Northeastern University, who studies the issue. Other data shows that mass killings peaked in 1929.
3. Schools are getting safer.
Across the board, schools are less dangerous than they used be. Over the past 20 years, the rate of theft per 1,000 students dropped from 101 to 18. For violent crime, the victimization rate per 1,000 students dropped from 53 to 14.
4. There Are More Guns in Circulation Than Ever Before.
Over the past 20 years, virtually every state in the country has liberalized gunownership rules and many states have expanded concealed carry laws that allow more people to carry weapons in more places. There around 300 million guns in the United States and at least one gun in about 45 percent of all households. Yet the rate of gun-related crime continues to drop.
5. “Assault Weapons Bans” Are Generally Ineffective.
While many people are calling for reinstating the federal ban on assault weapons – an arbitrary category of guns that has no clear definition – research shows it would have no effect on crime and violence. “Should it be renewed,” concludes a definitive study, “the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement.”
The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting is as horrifing a crime as can be imagined. It rips at the country’s heart and the call to action is strong and righteous. But as Joe Biden and his panel of experts consider changes to gun laws and school-safety policies, they need to lead with their heads and not just their hearts.
Over the past dozen years, too many policies – the Patriot Act, the war in Iraq, the TARP bailouts – have been ruled by emotion and ideology.
Passing sweeping new restrictions on Second Amendment rights won’t heal the pain and loss we all feel but just may create many more problems in our future."
|
On January 12 2013 06:11 Maxyim wrote:I thought that this was an interesting read: http://reason.com/reasontv/2013/01/10/reasons-5-facts-on-guns-and-gun-violence+ Show Spoiler +"In the wake of December’s horrific mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, Vice President Joe Biden is chairing a panel of experts that will make gun-control recommendations to President Barack Obama by the end of the month. The president has said that enacting new restrictions on guns will be one of his highest priorities.
No one wants to ever again see anything like the senseless slaughter of 26 people – including 20 children - at a school. But as legislators turn toward creating new gun laws, here are five facts they need to know.
1. Violent crime – including violent crime using guns – has dropped massively over the past 20 years.
The violent crime rate - which includes murder, rape, and beatings - is half of what it was in the early 1990s. And the violent crime rate involving the use of weapons has also declined at a similar pace.
2. Mass shootings have not increased in recent years.
Despite terrifying events like Sandy Hook or last summer’s theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado, mass shootings are not becoming more frequent. “There is no pattern, there is no increase,” says criminologist James Allen Fox of Northeastern University, who studies the issue. Other data shows that mass killings peaked in 1929.
3. Schools are getting safer.
Across the board, schools are less dangerous than they used be. Over the past 20 years, the rate of theft per 1,000 students dropped from 101 to 18. For violent crime, the victimization rate per 1,000 students dropped from 53 to 14.
4. There Are More Guns in Circulation Than Ever Before.
Over the past 20 years, virtually every state in the country has liberalized gunownership rules and many states have expanded concealed carry laws that allow more people to carry weapons in more places. There around 300 million guns in the United States and at least one gun in about 45 percent of all households. Yet the rate of gun-related crime continues to drop.
5. “Assault Weapons Bans” Are Generally Ineffective.
While many people are calling for reinstating the federal ban on assault weapons – an arbitrary category of guns that has no clear definition – research shows it would have no effect on crime and violence. “Should it be renewed,” concludes a definitive study, “the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement.”
The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting is as horrifing a crime as can be imagined. It rips at the country’s heart and the call to action is strong and righteous. But as Joe Biden and his panel of experts consider changes to gun laws and school-safety policies, they need to lead with their heads and not just their hearts.
Over the past dozen years, too many policies – the Patriot Act, the war in Iraq, the TARP bailouts – have been ruled by emotion and ideology.
Passing sweeping new restrictions on Second Amendment rights won’t heal the pain and loss we all feel but just may create many more problems in our future."
We have had 695 gun deaths since the newtown shooting in the united states.
|
On January 12 2013 06:13 Keldrath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 06:11 Maxyim wrote:I thought that this was an interesting read: http://reason.com/reasontv/2013/01/10/reasons-5-facts-on-guns-and-gun-violence+ Show Spoiler +"In the wake of December’s horrific mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, Vice President Joe Biden is chairing a panel of experts that will make gun-control recommendations to President Barack Obama by the end of the month. The president has said that enacting new restrictions on guns will be one of his highest priorities.
No one wants to ever again see anything like the senseless slaughter of 26 people – including 20 children - at a school. But as legislators turn toward creating new gun laws, here are five facts they need to know.
1. Violent crime – including violent crime using guns – has dropped massively over the past 20 years.
The violent crime rate - which includes murder, rape, and beatings - is half of what it was in the early 1990s. And the violent crime rate involving the use of weapons has also declined at a similar pace.
2. Mass shootings have not increased in recent years.
Despite terrifying events like Sandy Hook or last summer’s theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado, mass shootings are not becoming more frequent. “There is no pattern, there is no increase,” says criminologist James Allen Fox of Northeastern University, who studies the issue. Other data shows that mass killings peaked in 1929.
3. Schools are getting safer.
Across the board, schools are less dangerous than they used be. Over the past 20 years, the rate of theft per 1,000 students dropped from 101 to 18. For violent crime, the victimization rate per 1,000 students dropped from 53 to 14.
4. There Are More Guns in Circulation Than Ever Before.
Over the past 20 years, virtually every state in the country has liberalized gunownership rules and many states have expanded concealed carry laws that allow more people to carry weapons in more places. There around 300 million guns in the United States and at least one gun in about 45 percent of all households. Yet the rate of gun-related crime continues to drop.
5. “Assault Weapons Bans” Are Generally Ineffective.
While many people are calling for reinstating the federal ban on assault weapons – an arbitrary category of guns that has no clear definition – research shows it would have no effect on crime and violence. “Should it be renewed,” concludes a definitive study, “the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement.”
The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting is as horrifing a crime as can be imagined. It rips at the country’s heart and the call to action is strong and righteous. But as Joe Biden and his panel of experts consider changes to gun laws and school-safety policies, they need to lead with their heads and not just their hearts.
Over the past dozen years, too many policies – the Patriot Act, the war in Iraq, the TARP bailouts – have been ruled by emotion and ideology.
Passing sweeping new restrictions on Second Amendment rights won’t heal the pain and loss we all feel but just may create many more problems in our future." We have had 695 gun deaths since the newtown shooting in the united states.
Sorry, how does this relate to the article? Or are you replying to someone else?
|
|
|
I completely changed my stance, I now think that we needs as much guns as we can to defend against the illuminati apocalipse
|
1019 Posts
Not just that one, but also the alex jones argument too. The conduct of alex jones and other gun proponents really speaks volumes as to how nutty and ideologically extreme many pro-gun people have become. You could easily pass alex jones off as a religious nut, some kind of cult member, fanatic, etc.
the country needs intelligent and rational debaters not this kind of childish stuff
|
On January 12 2013 07:05 white_horse wrote:Not just that one, but also the alex jones argument. The conduct of alex jones and other gun proponents really speaks volumes as to how nutty and ideologically extreme many pro-gun people have become. You could easily pass alex jones off as a religious nut, some kind of cult member, fanatic, etc. the country needs intelligent and rational debaters not this kind of childish stuff
I'm asking specifically about this video though. Why are you critical of the argument in this video?
|
Call me a right wing nut job but I think Ben Shapiro had valid points even if I didn't like his smug behavior about it.
|
On January 12 2013 06:15 Maxyim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 06:13 Keldrath wrote:On January 12 2013 06:11 Maxyim wrote:I thought that this was an interesting read: http://reason.com/reasontv/2013/01/10/reasons-5-facts-on-guns-and-gun-violence+ Show Spoiler +"In the wake of December’s horrific mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, Vice President Joe Biden is chairing a panel of experts that will make gun-control recommendations to President Barack Obama by the end of the month. The president has said that enacting new restrictions on guns will be one of his highest priorities.
No one wants to ever again see anything like the senseless slaughter of 26 people – including 20 children - at a school. But as legislators turn toward creating new gun laws, here are five facts they need to know.
1. Violent crime – including violent crime using guns – has dropped massively over the past 20 years.
The violent crime rate - which includes murder, rape, and beatings - is half of what it was in the early 1990s. And the violent crime rate involving the use of weapons has also declined at a similar pace.
2. Mass shootings have not increased in recent years.
Despite terrifying events like Sandy Hook or last summer’s theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado, mass shootings are not becoming more frequent. “There is no pattern, there is no increase,” says criminologist James Allen Fox of Northeastern University, who studies the issue. Other data shows that mass killings peaked in 1929.
3. Schools are getting safer.
Across the board, schools are less dangerous than they used be. Over the past 20 years, the rate of theft per 1,000 students dropped from 101 to 18. For violent crime, the victimization rate per 1,000 students dropped from 53 to 14.
4. There Are More Guns in Circulation Than Ever Before.
Over the past 20 years, virtually every state in the country has liberalized gunownership rules and many states have expanded concealed carry laws that allow more people to carry weapons in more places. There around 300 million guns in the United States and at least one gun in about 45 percent of all households. Yet the rate of gun-related crime continues to drop.
5. “Assault Weapons Bans” Are Generally Ineffective.
While many people are calling for reinstating the federal ban on assault weapons – an arbitrary category of guns that has no clear definition – research shows it would have no effect on crime and violence. “Should it be renewed,” concludes a definitive study, “the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement.”
The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting is as horrifing a crime as can be imagined. It rips at the country’s heart and the call to action is strong and righteous. But as Joe Biden and his panel of experts consider changes to gun laws and school-safety policies, they need to lead with their heads and not just their hearts.
Over the past dozen years, too many policies – the Patriot Act, the war in Iraq, the TARP bailouts – have been ruled by emotion and ideology.
Passing sweeping new restrictions on Second Amendment rights won’t heal the pain and loss we all feel but just may create many more problems in our future." We have had 695 gun deaths since the newtown shooting in the united states. Sorry, how does this relate to the article? Or are you replying to someone else?
The whole article was trying to downplay the whole issue as a non issue. It's not. There have been 695 gun deaths already since newtown, that's only 1 month.
|
On January 12 2013 07:12 Rhino85 wrote:
Call me a right wing nut job but I think Ben Shapiro had valid points even if I didn't like his smug behavior about it.
He was 100x better than the Alex Jones but the way you say something is just as important, if not more, than what you have to say.
Though he did at least have somewhat non-insane views. Still disagree 100% with him though.
|
My thoughts are like what John Stewart said on the daily show. Fear of an imaginary dystopic future, preventing them from addressing our actual dystopic present.
|
On January 12 2013 07:05 white_horse wrote:Not just that one, but also the alex jones argument too. The conduct of alex jones and other gun proponents really speaks volumes as to how nutty and ideologically extreme many pro-gun people have become. You could easily pass alex jones off as a religious nut, some kind of cult member, fanatic, etc. the country needs intelligent and rational debaters not this kind of childish stuff
And I'm sure you'd say the exact same thing if they had someone who was on the extremist gun control side that calls for the death of NRA members and anyone who wants to keep their guns and not give them all up to the government?
If you're honestly going to group up the crazies and say that they're all that you need to see to see that "evil" side you really are no different then they are.
On January 12 2013 07:22 Keldrath wrote:My thoughts are like what John Stewart said on the daily show. Fear of an imaginary dystopic future, preventing them from addressing our actual dystopic present.
Yes our completely dysopic present that hasn't been getting better year after year as gun ownership goes up. If they want to talk about a real dystopic present its 100% about the gang violence and has nothing to do with the laws that they hawk trying to get sympathy from people who read sensationalist media and have no interest of doing any research on their own at all.
|
On January 12 2013 07:23 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 07:05 white_horse wrote:Not just that one, but also the alex jones argument too. The conduct of alex jones and other gun proponents really speaks volumes as to how nutty and ideologically extreme many pro-gun people have become. You could easily pass alex jones off as a religious nut, some kind of cult member, fanatic, etc. the country needs intelligent and rational debaters not this kind of childish stuff And I'm sure you'd say the exact same thing if they had someone who was on the extremist gun control side that calls for the death of NRA members and anyone who wants to keep their guns and not give them all up to the government? If you're honestly going to group up the crazies and say that they're all that you need to see to see that "evil" side you really are no different then they are.
Any normal non-insane, rational person would call that person completely crazy too, I don't see what you're trying to get at tbh.
|
On January 12 2013 07:22 Keldrath wrote:My thoughts are like what John Stewart said on the daily show. Fear of an imaginary dystopic future, preventing them from addressing our actual dystopic present.
But doesn't he still address the actual "dystopic" present in the video with his alternative solutions? Unless you don't think his alternative solutions are solutions at all. If that's the case, why aren't they?
I like John Stewart but that seems to be a cute punch phrase more than an actual argument.
On January 12 2013 07:20 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 07:12 Rhino85 wrote:
Call me a right wing nut job but I think Ben Shapiro had valid points even if I didn't like his smug behavior about it. Though he did at least have somewhat non-insane views. Still disagree 100% with him though.
What specifically was "somewhat" insane about the argument and why do you disagree with it 100%?
|
United States24768 Posts
On January 12 2013 07:16 Keldrath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 06:15 Maxyim wrote:On January 12 2013 06:13 Keldrath wrote:On January 12 2013 06:11 Maxyim wrote:I thought that this was an interesting read: http://reason.com/reasontv/2013/01/10/reasons-5-facts-on-guns-and-gun-violence+ Show Spoiler +"In the wake of December’s horrific mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, Vice President Joe Biden is chairing a panel of experts that will make gun-control recommendations to President Barack Obama by the end of the month. The president has said that enacting new restrictions on guns will be one of his highest priorities.
No one wants to ever again see anything like the senseless slaughter of 26 people – including 20 children - at a school. But as legislators turn toward creating new gun laws, here are five facts they need to know.
1. Violent crime – including violent crime using guns – has dropped massively over the past 20 years.
The violent crime rate - which includes murder, rape, and beatings - is half of what it was in the early 1990s. And the violent crime rate involving the use of weapons has also declined at a similar pace.
2. Mass shootings have not increased in recent years.
Despite terrifying events like Sandy Hook or last summer’s theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado, mass shootings are not becoming more frequent. “There is no pattern, there is no increase,” says criminologist James Allen Fox of Northeastern University, who studies the issue. Other data shows that mass killings peaked in 1929.
3. Schools are getting safer.
Across the board, schools are less dangerous than they used be. Over the past 20 years, the rate of theft per 1,000 students dropped from 101 to 18. For violent crime, the victimization rate per 1,000 students dropped from 53 to 14.
4. There Are More Guns in Circulation Than Ever Before.
Over the past 20 years, virtually every state in the country has liberalized gunownership rules and many states have expanded concealed carry laws that allow more people to carry weapons in more places. There around 300 million guns in the United States and at least one gun in about 45 percent of all households. Yet the rate of gun-related crime continues to drop.
5. “Assault Weapons Bans” Are Generally Ineffective.
While many people are calling for reinstating the federal ban on assault weapons – an arbitrary category of guns that has no clear definition – research shows it would have no effect on crime and violence. “Should it be renewed,” concludes a definitive study, “the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement.”
The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting is as horrifing a crime as can be imagined. It rips at the country’s heart and the call to action is strong and righteous. But as Joe Biden and his panel of experts consider changes to gun laws and school-safety policies, they need to lead with their heads and not just their hearts.
Over the past dozen years, too many policies – the Patriot Act, the war in Iraq, the TARP bailouts – have been ruled by emotion and ideology.
Passing sweeping new restrictions on Second Amendment rights won’t heal the pain and loss we all feel but just may create many more problems in our future." We have had 695 gun deaths since the newtown shooting in the united states. Sorry, how does this relate to the article? Or are you replying to someone else? The whole article was trying to downplay the whole issue as a non issue. It's not. There have been 695 gun deaths already since newtown, that's only 1 month.
695 gun deaths since newtown? Oh my god, that's terrible. Or wait, maybe it's average? Could it be good...?
If you are going to provide counter-evidence you should explain it and put it into the proper context.... unless you are just trying to use sensationalism to inappropriately sway people, of course.
|
On January 12 2013 07:27 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 07:23 Sermokala wrote:On January 12 2013 07:05 white_horse wrote:Not just that one, but also the alex jones argument too. The conduct of alex jones and other gun proponents really speaks volumes as to how nutty and ideologically extreme many pro-gun people have become. You could easily pass alex jones off as a religious nut, some kind of cult member, fanatic, etc. the country needs intelligent and rational debaters not this kind of childish stuff And I'm sure you'd say the exact same thing if they had someone who was on the extremist gun control side that calls for the death of NRA members and anyone who wants to keep their guns and not give them all up to the government? If you're honestly going to group up the crazies and say that they're all that you need to see to see that "evil" side you really are no different then they are. Any normal non-insane, rational person would call that person completely crazy too, I don't see what you're trying to get at tbh.
Ofc hes a crazy anyone whos anyone can see that. Why are we looking at that crazy person though? because a guy on a tv show whos raitings are the worst cnn has seen in 20 odd years wanted to bring him on. why did he want to bring him on? Because the guy with the TV show is completely for gun control and wants to discredit the people who are against gun control. Why did he bring that specific person on the show? did he want a rational discussion with a credible respectful person with experience and is well spoken? No he brought a crazy on his tv show so he could mock all the people on the other side of the debate.
This is exactly what fox news has been doing for years now.
|
On January 12 2013 07:33 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 07:27 Zooper31 wrote:On January 12 2013 07:23 Sermokala wrote:On January 12 2013 07:05 white_horse wrote:Not just that one, but also the alex jones argument too. The conduct of alex jones and other gun proponents really speaks volumes as to how nutty and ideologically extreme many pro-gun people have become. You could easily pass alex jones off as a religious nut, some kind of cult member, fanatic, etc. the country needs intelligent and rational debaters not this kind of childish stuff And I'm sure you'd say the exact same thing if they had someone who was on the extremist gun control side that calls for the death of NRA members and anyone who wants to keep their guns and not give them all up to the government? If you're honestly going to group up the crazies and say that they're all that you need to see to see that "evil" side you really are no different then they are. Any normal non-insane, rational person would call that person completely crazy too, I don't see what you're trying to get at tbh. Ofc hes a crazy anyone whos anyone can see that. Why are we looking at that crazy person though? because a guy on a tv show whos raitings are the worst cnn has seen in 20 odd years wanted to bring him on. why did he want to bring him on? Because the guy with the TV show is completely for gun control and wants to discredit the people who are against gun control. Why did he bring that specific person on the show? did he want a rational discussion with a credible respectful person with experience and is well spoken? No he brought a crazy on his tv show so he could mock all the people on the other side of the debate. This is exactly what fox news has been doing for years now.
What is crazy about his argument in that video?
|
On January 12 2013 07:30 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 07:16 Keldrath wrote:On January 12 2013 06:15 Maxyim wrote:On January 12 2013 06:13 Keldrath wrote:On January 12 2013 06:11 Maxyim wrote:I thought that this was an interesting read: http://reason.com/reasontv/2013/01/10/reasons-5-facts-on-guns-and-gun-violence+ Show Spoiler +"In the wake of December’s horrific mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, Vice President Joe Biden is chairing a panel of experts that will make gun-control recommendations to President Barack Obama by the end of the month. The president has said that enacting new restrictions on guns will be one of his highest priorities.
No one wants to ever again see anything like the senseless slaughter of 26 people – including 20 children - at a school. But as legislators turn toward creating new gun laws, here are five facts they need to know.
1. Violent crime – including violent crime using guns – has dropped massively over the past 20 years.
The violent crime rate - which includes murder, rape, and beatings - is half of what it was in the early 1990s. And the violent crime rate involving the use of weapons has also declined at a similar pace.
2. Mass shootings have not increased in recent years.
Despite terrifying events like Sandy Hook or last summer’s theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado, mass shootings are not becoming more frequent. “There is no pattern, there is no increase,” says criminologist James Allen Fox of Northeastern University, who studies the issue. Other data shows that mass killings peaked in 1929.
3. Schools are getting safer.
Across the board, schools are less dangerous than they used be. Over the past 20 years, the rate of theft per 1,000 students dropped from 101 to 18. For violent crime, the victimization rate per 1,000 students dropped from 53 to 14.
4. There Are More Guns in Circulation Than Ever Before.
Over the past 20 years, virtually every state in the country has liberalized gunownership rules and many states have expanded concealed carry laws that allow more people to carry weapons in more places. There around 300 million guns in the United States and at least one gun in about 45 percent of all households. Yet the rate of gun-related crime continues to drop.
5. “Assault Weapons Bans” Are Generally Ineffective.
While many people are calling for reinstating the federal ban on assault weapons – an arbitrary category of guns that has no clear definition – research shows it would have no effect on crime and violence. “Should it be renewed,” concludes a definitive study, “the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement.”
The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting is as horrifing a crime as can be imagined. It rips at the country’s heart and the call to action is strong and righteous. But as Joe Biden and his panel of experts consider changes to gun laws and school-safety policies, they need to lead with their heads and not just their hearts.
Over the past dozen years, too many policies – the Patriot Act, the war in Iraq, the TARP bailouts – have been ruled by emotion and ideology.
Passing sweeping new restrictions on Second Amendment rights won’t heal the pain and loss we all feel but just may create many more problems in our future." We have had 695 gun deaths since the newtown shooting in the united states. Sorry, how does this relate to the article? Or are you replying to someone else? The whole article was trying to downplay the whole issue as a non issue. It's not. There have been 695 gun deaths already since newtown, that's only 1 month. 695 gun deaths since newtown? Oh my god, that's terrible. Or wait, maybe it's average? Could it be good...? If you are going to provide counter-evidence you should explain it and put it into the proper context.... unless you are just trying to use sensationalism to inappropriately sway people, of course.
I don't see how you can take 695 gun deaths in one month and think that could possibly be shown in a favorable light.
If what you want is a comparison, Britain had 638 murders in 2011, 58 of them were committed with firearms.
|
On January 12 2013 07:33 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 07:27 Zooper31 wrote:On January 12 2013 07:23 Sermokala wrote:On January 12 2013 07:05 white_horse wrote:Not just that one, but also the alex jones argument too. The conduct of alex jones and other gun proponents really speaks volumes as to how nutty and ideologically extreme many pro-gun people have become. You could easily pass alex jones off as a religious nut, some kind of cult member, fanatic, etc. the country needs intelligent and rational debaters not this kind of childish stuff And I'm sure you'd say the exact same thing if they had someone who was on the extremist gun control side that calls for the death of NRA members and anyone who wants to keep their guns and not give them all up to the government? If you're honestly going to group up the crazies and say that they're all that you need to see to see that "evil" side you really are no different then they are. Any normal non-insane, rational person would call that person completely crazy too, I don't see what you're trying to get at tbh. Ofc hes a crazy anyone whos anyone can see that. Why are we looking at that crazy person though? because a guy on a tv show whos raitings are the worst cnn has seen in 20 odd years wanted to bring him on. why did he want to bring him on? Because the guy with the TV show is completely for gun control and wants to discredit the people who are against gun control. Why did he bring that specific person on the show? did he want a rational discussion with a credible respectful person with experience and is well spoken? No he brought a crazy on his tv show so he could mock all the people on the other side of the debate. This is exactly what fox news has been doing for years now.
I don't disagree with any of that. But it's still because of people like that, we can't properly do anything with gun control without them all going beserk and trying to cecede or something. The non-fanatical republicans need to stop listening to them and giving them any kind of power.
|
United States24768 Posts
On January 12 2013 07:38 Keldrath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 07:30 micronesia wrote:On January 12 2013 07:16 Keldrath wrote:On January 12 2013 06:15 Maxyim wrote:On January 12 2013 06:13 Keldrath wrote:On January 12 2013 06:11 Maxyim wrote:I thought that this was an interesting read: http://reason.com/reasontv/2013/01/10/reasons-5-facts-on-guns-and-gun-violence+ Show Spoiler +"In the wake of December’s horrific mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, Vice President Joe Biden is chairing a panel of experts that will make gun-control recommendations to President Barack Obama by the end of the month. The president has said that enacting new restrictions on guns will be one of his highest priorities.
No one wants to ever again see anything like the senseless slaughter of 26 people – including 20 children - at a school. But as legislators turn toward creating new gun laws, here are five facts they need to know.
1. Violent crime – including violent crime using guns – has dropped massively over the past 20 years.
The violent crime rate - which includes murder, rape, and beatings - is half of what it was in the early 1990s. And the violent crime rate involving the use of weapons has also declined at a similar pace.
2. Mass shootings have not increased in recent years.
Despite terrifying events like Sandy Hook or last summer’s theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado, mass shootings are not becoming more frequent. “There is no pattern, there is no increase,” says criminologist James Allen Fox of Northeastern University, who studies the issue. Other data shows that mass killings peaked in 1929.
3. Schools are getting safer.
Across the board, schools are less dangerous than they used be. Over the past 20 years, the rate of theft per 1,000 students dropped from 101 to 18. For violent crime, the victimization rate per 1,000 students dropped from 53 to 14.
4. There Are More Guns in Circulation Than Ever Before.
Over the past 20 years, virtually every state in the country has liberalized gunownership rules and many states have expanded concealed carry laws that allow more people to carry weapons in more places. There around 300 million guns in the United States and at least one gun in about 45 percent of all households. Yet the rate of gun-related crime continues to drop.
5. “Assault Weapons Bans” Are Generally Ineffective.
While many people are calling for reinstating the federal ban on assault weapons – an arbitrary category of guns that has no clear definition – research shows it would have no effect on crime and violence. “Should it be renewed,” concludes a definitive study, “the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement.”
The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting is as horrifing a crime as can be imagined. It rips at the country’s heart and the call to action is strong and righteous. But as Joe Biden and his panel of experts consider changes to gun laws and school-safety policies, they need to lead with their heads and not just their hearts.
Over the past dozen years, too many policies – the Patriot Act, the war in Iraq, the TARP bailouts – have been ruled by emotion and ideology.
Passing sweeping new restrictions on Second Amendment rights won’t heal the pain and loss we all feel but just may create many more problems in our future." We have had 695 gun deaths since the newtown shooting in the united states. Sorry, how does this relate to the article? Or are you replying to someone else? The whole article was trying to downplay the whole issue as a non issue. It's not. There have been 695 gun deaths already since newtown, that's only 1 month. 695 gun deaths since newtown? Oh my god, that's terrible. Or wait, maybe it's average? Could it be good...? If you are going to provide counter-evidence you should explain it and put it into the proper context.... unless you are just trying to use sensationalism to inappropriately sway people, of course. I don't see how you can take 695 gun deaths in one month and think that could possibly be shown in a favorable light.
This is why you are not being an effective member of this discussion (you have plenty of company, don't worry). 695 gun deaths in a country of 695 people would be much different than 695 gun deaths in a country of 10 billion people. 695 self-suicide gun deaths, which comprise 100% of gun deaths, is much different than 695 gun deaths that are the result of one huge mass shooting where 695 people were gunned down. 695 gun deaths directly in the wake of a media frenzy involving gun discussions is much different than 695 gun deaths with no apparent trigger.
You think you have made a point regarding a simple issue, but you have not, and the issue is not simple.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
