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Burning wood, dangerous?

Forum Index > General Forum
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Promises
Profile Joined February 2004
Netherlands1821 Posts
February 03 2012 09:08 GMT
#1
Just read this on Sam Harris' page, a page I frequent mostly for his views on religion (Sam Harris is a neuroscientist and an atheist [altho he himself would argue that atheism is a meaningless summation of a group, much like a-smurfist, demoninating people by something they don't believe in] who is said to be "one of the four horsemen of atheism" with Richard Dawkins, Daniel C Dennet and the late Christopher Hitchens).

The article basically poses that science has shown wood smoke from recreational fires and fireplaces to be quite bad for you, more so then smoking and more polluting of the environment. Now the main thing I'm interested in, and one of the main things he highlights, is how you feel yourself react to this. The second I read his intro I was building up resistance to the idea that fireplace's would be bad, and that it must all be overprotective bullshit etc. Weird, because the facts don't lie and if it were something else that I don't love as much as an open fire I wouldn't feel any of this resistance to take in the facts. If you're up for it; have a read and let me know how it registered with you =)

+ Show Spoiler +

The Fireplace Delusion

It seems to me that many nonbelievers have forgotten—or never knew—what it is like to suffer an unhappy collision with scientific rationality. We are open to good evidence and sound argument as a matter of principle, and are generally willing to follow wherever they may lead. Certain of us have made careers out of bemoaning the failure of religious people to adopt this same attitude.
However, I recently stumbled upon an example of secular intransigence that may give readers a sense of how religious people feel when their beliefs are criticized. It’s not a perfect analogy, as you will see, but the rigorous research I’ve conducted at dinner parties suggests that it is worth thinking about. We can call the phenomenon “the fireplace delusion.”
On a cold night, most people consider a well-tended fire to be one of the more wholesome pleasures that humanity has produced. A fire, burning safely within the confines of a fireplace or a woodstove, is a visible and tangible source of comfort to us. We love everything about it: the warmth, the beauty of its flames, and—unless one is allergic to smoke—the smell that it imparts to the surrounding air.
I am sorry to say that if you feel this way about a wood fire, you are not only wrong but dangerously misguided. I mean to seriously convince you of this—so you can consider it in part a public service announcement—but please keep in mind that I am drawing an analogy. I want you to be sensitive to how you feel, and to notice the resistance you begin to muster as you consider what I have to say.

Because wood is among the most natural substances on earth, and its use as a fuel is universal, most people imagine that burning wood must be a perfectly benign thing to do. Breathing winter air scented by wood smoke seems utterly unlike puffing on a cigarette or inhaling the exhaust from a passing truck. But this is an illusion.
Here is what we know from a scientific point of view: There is no amount of wood smoke that is good to breathe. It is at least as bad for you as cigarette smoke, and probably much worse. (One study found it to be 30 times more potent a carcinogen.) The smoke from an ordinary wood fire contains hundreds of compounds known to be carcinogenic, mutagenic, teratogenic, and irritating to the respiratory system. Most of the particles generated by burning wood are smaller than one micron—a size believed to be most damaging to our lungs. In fact, these particles are so fine that they can evade our mucociliary defenses and travel directly into the bloodstream, posing a risk to the heart. Particles this size also resist gravitational settling, remaining airborne for weeks at a time.
Once they have exited your chimney, the toxic gases (e.g. benzene) and particles that make up smoke freely pass back into your home and into the homes of others. (Research shows that nearly 70 percent of chimney smoke reenters nearby buildings.) Children who live in homes with active fireplaces or woodstoves, or in areas where wood burning is common, suffer a higher incidence of asthma, cough, bronchitis, nocturnal awakening, and compromised lung function. Among adults, wood burning is associated with more-frequent emergency room visits and hospital admissions for respiratory illness, along with increased mortality from heart attacks. The inhalation of wood smoke, even at relatively low levels, alters pulmonary immune function, leading to a greater susceptibility to colds, flus, and other respiratory infections. All these effects are borne disproportionately by children and the elderly.
The unhappy truth about burning wood has been scientifically established to a moral certainty: That nice, cozy fire in your fireplace is bad for you. It is bad for your children. It is bad for your neighbors and their children. Burning wood is also completely unnecessary, because in the developed world we invariably have better and cleaner alternatives for heating our homes. If you are burning wood in the United States, Europe, Australia, or any other developed nation, you are most likely doing so recreationally—and the persistence of this habit is a major source of air pollution in cities throughout the world. In fact, wood smoke often contributes more harmful particulates to urban air than any other source.
In the developing world, the burning of solid fuel in the home is a genuine scourge, second only to poor sanitation as an environmental health risk. In 2000, the World Health Organization estimated that it caused nearly 2 million premature deaths each year—considerably more than were caused by traffic accidents.
I suspect that many of you have already begun to marshal counterarguments of a sort that will be familiar to anyone who has debated the validity and usefulness of religion. Here is one: Human beings have warmed themselves around fires for tens of thousands of years, and this practice was instrumental in our survival as a species. Without fire there would be no material culture. Nothing is more natural to us than burning wood to stay warm.
True enough. But many other things are just as natural—such as dying at the ripe old age of thirty. Dying in childbirth is eminently natural, as is premature death from scores of diseases that are now preventable. Getting eaten by a lion or a bear is also your birthright—or would be, but for the protective artifice of civilization—and becoming a meal for a larger carnivore would connect you to the deep history of our species as surely as the pleasures of the hearth ever could. For nearly two centuries the divide between what is natural—and all the needless misery that entails—and what is good has been growing. Breathing the fumes issuing from your neighbor’s chimney, or from your own, now falls on the wrong side of that divide.
The case against burning wood is every bit as clear as the case against smoking cigarettes. Indeed, it is even clearer, because when you light a fire, you needlessly poison the air that everyone around you for miles must breathe. Even if you reject every intrusion of the “nanny state,” you should agree that the recreational burning of wood is unethical and should be illegal, especially in urban areas. By lighting a fire, you are creating pollution that you cannot dispose. It might be the clearest day of the year, but burn a sufficient quantity of wood and the air in the vicinity of your home will resemble a bad day in Beijing. Your neighbors should not have to pay the cost of this archaic behavior of yours. And there is no way they can transfer this cost to you in a way that would preserve their interests. Therefore, even libertarians should be willing to pass a law prohibiting the recreational burning of wood in favor of cleaner alternatives (like gas).
I have discovered that when I make this case, even to highly intelligent and health-conscious men and women, a psychological truth quickly becomes as visible as a pair of clenched fists: They do not want to believe any of it. Most people I meet want to live in a world in which wood smoke is harmless. Indeed, they seem committed to living in such a world, regardless of the facts. To try to convince them that burning wood is harmful—and has always been so—is somehow offensive. The ritual of burning wood is simply too comforting and too familiar to be reconsidered, its consolation so ancient and ubiquitous that it has to be benign. The alternative—burning gas over fake logs—seems a sacrilege.
And yet, the reality of our situation is scientifically unambiguous: If you care about your family’s health and that of your neighbors, the sight of a glowing hearth should be about as comforting as the sight of a diesel engine idling in your living room. It is time to break the spell and burn gas—or burn nothing at all.
Of course, if you are anything like my friends, you will refuse to believe this. And that should give you some sense of what we are up against whenever we confront religion.


Original Article: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-fireplace-delusion
I'm a man of my word, and that word is "unreliable".
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
February 03 2012 09:12 GMT
#2
Highly taken aback by this...it seems to be perfectly backed by scientific proof and whatnot, but good luck trying to convince people of this. I will personally cut that habit though.
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
NeXiLe
Profile Joined February 2006
Canada262 Posts
February 03 2012 09:13 GMT
#3
Unfortunately I'm not super wealthy and burning wood is much cheaper and much hotter ^^ So I won't be stopping any time soon. If I win the lottery tomorrow though, I promise to. I'll never stop having fires outside with drinks + friends though :D
Bazzyrick
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom361 Posts
February 03 2012 09:15 GMT
#4
No lie... I work in a shop that sells Fires and Fireplaces. We have mostly gas fires lit during show hours, but we do have a couple of Wood burning Stoves that I usually light and keep burning through the day... 0_o

I tended to avoid the smoke best I could anyway but.. thanks for scaring me lol.
You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10776 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-03 09:21:57
February 03 2012 09:20 GMT
#5
Uhm.. What did you guys think?
That smoke is suddenly healthy because your burning wood instead of tobacco, Gas or basically anything there is?
LOL?
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
February 03 2012 09:25 GMT
#6
It's very interesting. I could guess it wasn't perfectly clean and healthy, but I really didn't imagine it was that bad. And I used a fireplace to warm my house for 17 years.
ॐ
Pibacc
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada545 Posts
February 03 2012 09:25 GMT
#7
I'm surprised at people being surprised by this lol. If you've ever been near a campfire and breathe in a bunch of smoke, it hurts and feels awful.
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
February 03 2012 09:26 GMT
#8
Welp, guess I'm never burning wood again.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
Shockk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany2269 Posts
February 03 2012 09:28 GMT
#9
Obviously it's unhealthy, but this is one of those things that can't be fixed with regulation, but only education.

With just a hint of chemistry knowledge - high school level is fully sufficient - people can understand the reactions developing when something burns. CO2 as a climate gas and CO as a potential toxin are scary enough; add all the other crap that's possibly on wood that's burned (paint, varnish etc) and you get a cocktail of stuff you certainly don't want in your lungs or immediate vicinity.

You'll never be able to stop cozy fireplaces or camp fires with laws and regulations. People will only laugh and scoff at you. Education can fix it, though.
Vestrel
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada271 Posts
February 03 2012 09:28 GMT
#10
Wood smoke is worse than cigarette smoke?
Really?!
capu
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Finland224 Posts
February 03 2012 09:30 GMT
#11
i think this is going to have little to no effect on my behavior. Life is bad for you and in the end we are all going to die. If I had to work around constant smoke I'd reconsider but occasional live fire can't be too harmful.
Dr_Strange
Profile Joined April 2009
United States80 Posts
February 03 2012 09:30 GMT
#12
I was surprised he didnt mention carbon monoxide.
I am the sorcerer supreme.
killa_robot
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1884 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-03 09:34:13
February 03 2012 09:33 GMT
#13
Smoke is bad for you. Sugar is bad for you.

What is the world coming to!
ddrddrddrddr
Profile Joined August 2010
1344 Posts
February 03 2012 09:38 GMT
#14
Of course, wood smoke, or pretty much any other smoke is going to be bad for you. The warm fuzzy feeling is still justified since a long time ago a fire probably keeps you from freezing or being eaten at night. World's changed since then, a little smoke was the least of our worries then, but now I suppose it is something to think about. I don't see what's so profound about this though.
Elzar
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany204 Posts
February 03 2012 09:40 GMT
#15
Now wait a second!
Are you telling me inhaling smoke from burned materials isn't healthy?

My god! [image loading]
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
February 03 2012 09:41 GMT
#16
On February 03 2012 18:33 killa_robot wrote:
Smoke is bad for you. Sugar is bad for you.

What is the world coming to!


Soon the earth will be bad for you too so that's what its coming to!

Obviously it is bad for you, but it still has a strong place in most cultures. Like in bonfires and campfires. It won't die out because it is unhealthy, I mean look at general smoking. The anti-smoking campaign has been working to get it out of our cultures since the early 1900's, having anti-smoking ads since the 50's. You don't simply take out cultural traits quickly.

Culture and health aren't neccesarily mutually exclusive.
Blacktion
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom1148 Posts
February 03 2012 09:43 GMT
#17
On February 03 2012 18:33 killa_robot wrote:
Smoke is bad for you. Sugar is bad for you.

What is the world coming to!


This. If we avoided everything that was bad for us we might all live for 120 years, but it would be 120 years of solid boredom and misery.
Ill have a few guilty pleasures and die at 60 any day thanks.
Where's Boxer, there's victory! - figq
supdubdup
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States916 Posts
February 03 2012 09:45 GMT
#18
There's nothing more healthy than breathing in every toxic while fireworks are set off.
Turn it Up
Tanukki
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland579 Posts
February 03 2012 09:48 GMT
#19
CO has mostly acute toxic effects, this article is mostly concerned with chronic effects that can be demonstrated easily for those small particles that damage lungs, and carcinogens. The way I see it though, getting phobic over those things only makes your life more miserable. Lighting pyres 1 day of the year isn't going to kill anyone, you get better from that stuff by breathing fresh air. And sometimes, burning stuff is the most convenient and efficient way to generate heat, such as with combustible trash.
bigwig123
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
163 Posts
February 03 2012 09:48 GMT
#20
me and my 16 dollar heating bill last winter laughed
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