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uiCk
Canada1925 Posts
On December 02 2011 08:36 Whitewing wrote: Piracy isn't a tool for anything, it's illegal and people need to stop trying to justify stealing. to copy is not stealing. It's not illegal everywhere, and who cares about legality? alcohol used to be illegal. now its legal. Is it bad or is it good? who cares. | ||
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SoulWager
United States464 Posts
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uiCk
Canada1925 Posts
On December 02 2011 08:45 SoulWager wrote: make buying it easier than downloading a torrent, problem solved. this. All the industries are being forced to come up with new ways of selling their crap. Good example is the movie industry, with 3D. found new cash crop, and people are enjoying 3D. Good for them, though they will have to innovate at some point in the future. it's not because of pirating and 3D that "regular" movies will not be made anymore. They will just be less mainstream, which is ok, because people mostly pirate mainstream shit anyways. Which IMO is ok, because its junk anyways. i still gladly play 5-15$ at cinemas to watch old classics and shit, even though ive seen them plenty of times etc. I've bought D2 numerous times, same with SC, same with most games i truly enjoy. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On December 02 2011 08:43 uiCk wrote: to copy is not stealing. It's not illegal everywhere, and who cares about legality? alcohol used to be illegal. now its legal. Is it bad or is it good? who cares. It's stealing IP. You're taking something that belongs to someone else without permission of the owner, and without paying for it. That's stealing by definition. | ||
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Spitfire
South Africa442 Posts
On December 02 2011 08:43 uiCk wrote: to copy is not stealing. It's not illegal everywhere, and who cares about legality? alcohol used to be illegal. now its legal. Is it bad or is it good? who cares. Not really the same thing though is it? Cause when you're pirating you're taking something others put work into and on which their livelihood depends and not paying them for it. | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
On December 02 2011 08:54 Whitewing wrote: It's stealing IP. You're taking something that belongs to someone else without permission of the owner, and without paying for it. That's stealing by definition. You could hardly call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's property. But no, it is not stealing, because the original material does not disappear. The original material and the copies of it are copied. | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
On December 02 2011 09:00 Spitfire wrote: Not really the same thing though is it? Cause when you're pirating you're taking something others put work into and on which their livelihood depends and not paying them for it. I don't see any people being fired (edit: in the industry). I do see income for and expansion of game studios. Movies and concerts visited more than ever. What's the problem? | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
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jinixxx123
543 Posts
However i'd like to say, this fact could not be more true ( 1 download does not equal a sales lost) If i could not pirate the game i would simply do without it. There are so many titles out there that were to stressful to pirate the game and i still did not buy it, because I dont consider (especially <20hr single player experiences) to be worth 50-60$ then there are games like duke nukem forever where it should be a SIN to even charge money for it, the game is so bad its not even worth being pirated yet paying 60 bucks for it? just wow. The only games immune to piracy are strong multiplayer ones, such as starcraft 2, call of duty etc etc.. Those games do fine because of the multiplayer being its strongest aspect. why do i pirate games? for 1 i know i can get away with it, because i live in a poor 3rd country, piracy is rampant over here, police shop in bootleg dvd stores for the latest movies, nothing will be done about it and 2, big game developers never ship directly to 3rd world countrys', so anything that comes to us is threw a middle man which means even more expenses than the regular cost of a game. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On December 02 2011 09:06 H0i wrote: You could hardly call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's property. But no, it is not stealing, because the original material does not disappear. The original material and the copies of it are copied. That's why it's called piracy, but you are still taking someone's property. And do you not understand the concept of intellectual property? I can and will call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's intellectual property, it's the entire concept of programming. | ||
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Konaa
103 Posts
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jinixxx123
543 Posts
On December 02 2011 09:17 Konaa wrote: Lots of people pirate just to get around the annoying DRM. as a huge pirate myself, i totally disagree with this, We pirate the game because we can get away with it. thats the only reason. | ||
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Infinite Lurker
United States24 Posts
As someone mentioned before, I feel like a sucker for buying what others get for free, because unlike Drone, I have never had the chance to pirate. When i was under 16, my parents bought games for me. When i got older, I could work over the summers at $8.50 an hour to afford the few games I enjoyed. I know I'm lucky to have a great minimum wage and opportunities at a young age, but it's my understanding that most 1st world countries have either a decent minimum wage or collective bargaining rights / industry standards that allow for those without a college degree to get a decent pay. For those who live in third world countries, countries like australia where the prices for digital goods are blatant insults to the consumer, or those who live alone without a steady job (living with my parents negates cost of living), I understand why you might torrent, but I also suggest, probably ignorantly, that playing too many video games might not be the best hobby. This is because I feel like torrenting does, in fact, hurt the industry. Elder scrolls began with two buggy, truly mediocre games. However, because people were willing to buy a game that they weren't 100 % sure they would love, the series lives on, and manifests itself in Skyrim, a great (though still buggy -_- ) game. When people say they would not buy a game without pirating it, they're forgetting that, without pirating, they wouldn't be playing it at all, and they would never truly know what they were missing. This excitement can lead to people buying games produced by smaller studios, and their success leads to more, and better, games. It's true that the video game market is doing better than ever, but I can't seem to think of a good game developer that took hold in the market in the last 5 years. The convenience argument is bs with Steam. You can't honestly say that downloading a game off steam, or ordering it through amazon, is that much tougher than torrenting it. I also don't like the argument "developers only want our money", because, by law, they're obligated to make as much money as possible for their stockholders. Lastly, I understand piracy can have positive effects. The free week of portal offered by valve was an ingenious way to revive interest in the game, especially with portal 2 being developed. But the idea that playing is a right and paying is optional is just something I don't think I can agree with. Still, please torrent modern warfare, because that series is a joke. | ||
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BlueBoxSC
United States582 Posts
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Runnin
208 Posts
On December 02 2011 09:08 MattBarry wrote: I've pirated old games cause I don't feel like getting the CDs from my attic. Oh well. I also pirate games that I bought on consoles but I want to play on the PC. Fuck you Bethesda, I'm not buying FO3 again. Consider the $60 I paid in DLC your damn payment. I don't really think what you're doing is the same as pirating. Sure you may be getting the game from the same source as a pirate, but you've paid for the IP already. If I were you I wouldn't feel bad about it, and I've been one of the more stubborn/goodie-two-shoes in this thread. | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
On December 02 2011 09:15 Whitewing wrote: That's why it's called piracy, but you are still taking someone's property. And do you not understand the concept of intellectual property? I can and will call a collection of 1's and 0's someone's intellectual property, it's the entire concept of programming. I am not taking property. The property does not disappear and is not damaged in any way. I do not understand the concept of intellectual property. I understand what you mean with it, but I do not believe in it. What good does it do? How can intellectuality be property? I simply do not believe someone can own such a thing, but then, I do not believe in our "society" of today, I do not believe in it's workings and this idea of property is one of them. I believe in an enlightened society, and not in this one. That's all I wanted to say, I'm not going to continue the discussion because there is nothing left to say. | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
On December 02 2011 09:40 H0i wrote: I am not taking property. The property does not disappear and is not damaged in any way. I do not understand the concept of intellectual property. I understand what you mean with it, but I do not believe in it. What good does it do? How can intellectuality be property? I simply do not believe someone can own such a thing, but then, I do not believe in our "society" of today, I do not believe in it's workings and this idea of property is one of them. I believe in an enlightened society, and not in this one. That's all I wanted to say, I'm not going to continue the discussion because there is nothing left to say. That would make perfect sense if games didn't cost money to produce. You can't expect quality games to come from some dude who just makes games in his free time. Or even a few friends getting together to work on a game. A modern game cost A LOT to make. And companies need to be reimbursed for their efforts. It doesn't matter what you believe. What you believe doesn't fit practically into our economic system. Call our economic system stupid if you wish but that doesn't change the fact that you're damaging people who are just trying to make a living doing what they love. | ||
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Craze
United States561 Posts
On December 02 2011 09:12 jinixxx123 wrote: If i could not pirate the game i would simply do without it. There are so many titles out there that were to stressful to pirate the game and i still did not buy it, because I dont consider (especially <20hr single player experiences) to be worth 50-60$ This justification is a farce. Game companies sell their games at prices that guarantee them the largest net profits. If you don't want to pay 50+ for a game, wait a year and it'll be 30. If you don't want to pay that much then you shouldn't have the game. Making choices on how I spend my disposable income is an important part of life. Developing video games is a huge investment these days, companies that provide you with your entertainment have earned your money. | ||
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Runnin
208 Posts
On December 02 2011 09:40 H0i wrote: I am not taking property. The property does not disappear and is not damaged in any way. I do not understand the concept of intellectual property. I understand what you mean with it, but I do not believe in it. What good does it do? How can intellectuality be property? I simply do not believe someone can own such a thing, but then, I do not believe in our "society" of today, I do not believe in it's workings and this idea of property is one of them. I believe in an enlightened society, and not in this one. That's all I wanted to say, I'm not going to continue the discussion because there is nothing left to say. Edited out my worthless post to add something constructive. So you're saying if you wrote a book, you'd have no problem with me taking it, copying it, and selling it under my name? After all, you don't believe that you own the book that you wrote. | ||
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Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
On December 02 2011 09:40 H0i wrote: I am not taking property. The property does not disappear and is not damaged in any way. I do not understand the concept of intellectual property. I understand what you mean with it, but I do not believe in it. What good does it do? How can intellectuality be property? I simply do not believe someone can own such a thing, but then, I do not believe in our "society" of today, I do not believe in it's workings and this idea of property is one of them. I believe in an enlightened society, and not in this one. That's all I wanted to say, I'm not going to continue the discussion because there is nothing left to say. Someone's hard work, money and effort has gone in to inventing that intellectual property. The reason they do this is to sell the use of that intellectual property for the purposes of entertainment. Think of Intellectual Property as if it is a service. You can pay someone to wash your car or mow your lawn. Technically they aren't giving you any physical "thing". Does this mean you also consider that not paying someone who provided you with a service to not be stealing? Do you consider it morally correct to not pay someone who provided you with their hard work and effort? With Intellectual Property (in this case video games) you're paying someone for the time, effort and money they have invested into creating it in return for the benefits (entertainment) of using that product. | ||
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