This is a thread to honor, appreciate, and discuss news for the late writer Kurt Vonnegut.
“Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It’s hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It’s round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you’ve got about a hundred years here. There’s only one rule that I know of, babies—God damn it, you’ve got to be kind.”
About: Vonnegut is considered one of the great American writers and satirists. His books tend to be a mix of humanism, art, everyday life, morals, gallows humor, with the occasional alien race mixed in. Originally branded as a "sci-fi" writer from his early short stories and novels, he later evolved into writing more autobiographical work and social essays as well as being named the Honorary President of the American Humanist Association.
Being born and raised in Indiana, he traveled the world and worked various jobs while trying to establish himself as a writer. He had a life-changing experience while fighting and being a prisoner of war during WWII. Afterward he spent 20 years trying to work out his, as he put it, "Desden book," which eventually became his magnum opus and very controversial work "Slaughterhouse-Five."
Kurt was born on November 11th 1922 and died at the age of 84 in 2007 after complications from a slip and fall. He swore smoking non-filter Pall Malls for 70 years would do him in, but this prediction proved incorrect.
Vonnegut was known for his strange and experimental styles which included mixing autobiography and fiction, using hilarious hand-drawn pictures as part of the story, meeting his main character (and alter-ego) face to face in a novel, multiple titles for books, repetition or certain phrases and ideas, slow and ironic plots based around character storytelling, his tendency to tell you what is going to happen before it does, and his own world and cast of characters which pop up throughout his many books.
Why: I write this because finding Vonnegut was one of those pivotal moments in my life. His books were such a simple read but resonated so deeply in me. Finally there was a voice for my hopes and disappointments that put my thoughts and ideas straight. After struggling for years with my own reflections, a friend passed me a copy of Slaughterhouse-Five. I read it front to back in the course of an evening and reread it again the next day. I was sold from the opening title page.
Come on, when a book opens like that, it could go anywhere!
This would have been his birthday (Nov. 11th) and I always celebrate in my own way. I am also a member and backer of the Vonnegut Society and Memorial Library and I hope his works will live on, giving a voice to people who struggle in today's world.
I hope to post news and talk Vonnegut in this thread. I will also update with links and resources to finding out more about this truly original voice of America.
Please think of this like a news and fan club. I am open to discuss problems or controversies with his writing, why you may not like his writing, but please let's leave any plain hate out of here.
Kurt's Tips on Writing:
1. Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted.
2. Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.
3. Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.
4. Every sentence must do one of two things — reveal character or advance the action.
5. Start as close to the end as possible.
6. Be a Sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them-in order that the reader may see what they are made of.
7. Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.
8. Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To hell with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.
Player Piano (1952) The Sirens of Titan (1959) Mother Night (1962) Cat's Cradle (1963) God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater or Pearls Before Swine (1965) Slaughterhouse-Five or The Children's Crusade: A Duty Dance with Death (1969) Breakfast of Champions or Goodbye Blue Monday (1973) Slapstick or Lonesome No More! (1976) Jailbird (1979) Deadeye Dick (1982) Galapagos: A Novel (1985) Bluebeard, the Autobiography of Rabo Karabekian 1916-1988 (1987) Hocus Pocus (1990) Timequake (1997)
Canary in the Cathouse (Short Stories, 1961) Welcome to the Monkey House (Short Stories, 1968) Wampeters, Foma, and Granfalloons (Essays and Writings, 1974) Palm Sunday: An Autobiographical Collage (1981) Fates Worse Than Death: An Autobiographical Collage (1991) Bagombo Snuff Box: Uncollected Short Fiction (Short Stories, 1999) God Bless You, Dr. Kevorkian (Fictional Interviews with the Dead, 1999) A Man Without a Country (Essays, 2005) Armageddon in Restrospect and Other New and Unpublished Writings on War and Peace (Stories and Essays, Posthumous, 2008) Look at the Birdie: Unpublished Fiction (Short Stories, Posthumous, 2009) While Mortals Sleep: Unpublished Short Fiction (Short Stories, Posthumous, 2011)
Mother Night (1996) Slaughterhouse-Five (1972) Breakfast of Champions (1999) Slapstick of Another Kind (Adaptation of Slapstick, 1982) Welcome to the Monkey House TV Series (1991) - contains the stories "Displaced Person," "All the King's Horses," "EPICAC," "The Euphio Question," "The Foster Portfolio," "Harrison Bergeron," "More Stately Mansions," and "Next Door." Who Am I This Time? (1982) 2081 (2009) Adaptation of Harrison Bergeron
Personal Recommendations: If you are new to Vonnegut, there are a few ways you can approach him. If you are a short story fan, start with "Welcome to the Monkey House" or "Bagombo Snuff Box." These collections will give you a good idea of the voice and style. Throughout the books you can even see him evolve as a writer.
If you are a novel person, the big ones to try are of course his masterpiece "Slaughterhouse-Five", his humorous take on science and religion in "Cat's Cradle," his psychological wit in "Breakfast of Champions," or a deeper side of art and life in "Bluebeard."
Personal Ratings: Vonnegut once graded his books he had written up to that time. Here is my attempt to grade his novels. + Show Spoiler +
Player Piano (1952) - B- The Sirens of Titan (1959) - B Mother Night (1962) - B Cat's Cradle (1963) - A God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater or Pearls Before Swine (1965) - B+ Slaughterhouse-Five or The Children's Crusade: A Duty Dance with Death (1969) - A+ Breakfast of Champions or Goodbye Blue Monday (1973) - A Slapstick or Lonesome No More! (1976) - C Jailbird (1979) - C- Deadeye Dick (1982) - C+ Galapagos: A Novel (1985) - B+ Bluebeard, the Autobiography of Rabo Karabekian 1916-1988 (1987) - A Hocus Pocus (1990) - B+ Timequake (1997) - A-
Questions: What are your favorite books? What did his writing mean to you? How did you discover Kurt Vonnegut?
Perfect Summation:
On November 11 2011 15:51 justjoe09 wrote: Vonnegut is the reason I strive to read every day, why I hate and love the human race, why I try to make other people's lives a little bit better, why I'm cynical about the application of certain technology, why I'm concerned with societal "progress" and why I even attempted to start writing. Great thread.
I read slaughterhouse-five in high school, it is still my favorite book (7 years later). Vonnegut is such a great writer and all of his work that I've read really speaks to me. Cat's Cradle is a close-second favorite.
I have now read 8 of his works, (Slaughterhouse-five, Cat's Cradle, God Bless You Mr. Rosewater, Breakfast of Champions, Mother Night, Welcome to the Monkey House, The Sirens of Titan, and Player Piano) and intend to read all of them at some point in my life. I absolutely love Vonnegut, even my least favorite books of his are still securely in my top 100 all time.
I discovered him through a friend letting me borrow her copy of Slaughterhouse-five...and I became addicted almost immediately. I think I read Cat's Cradle in a single sitting.
On November 11 2011 14:15 Lemonwalrus wrote: I have now read 8 of his works, (Slaughterhouse-five, Cat's Cradle, God Bless You Mr. Rosewater, Breakfast of Champions, Mother Night, Welcome to the Monkey House, The Sirens of Titan, and Player Piano) and intend to read all of them at some point in my life. I absolutely love Vonnegut, even my least favorite books of his are still securely in my top 100 all time.
I discovered him through a friend letting me borrow her copy of Slaughterhouse-five...and I became addicted almost immediately. I think I read Cat's Cradle in a single sitting.
Good to hear friend. How do you like the earlier stuff (Sirens, Piano, Mother) compared to the later stuff? I highly recommend Bluebeard and Timequake. I personally think that Timequake, while being a mix of fiction and autobiographical stuff, is also one of his more "secretive" best works in that not as many people know it well.
Also, I am going to update the thread soon, when I get time, with other assorted works. He wrote a children's book called "Sun Moon Star" and some other various essays and whatnot. He is the man.
On November 11 2011 14:15 Lemonwalrus wrote: I have now read 8 of his works, (Slaughterhouse-five, Cat's Cradle, God Bless You Mr. Rosewater, Breakfast of Champions, Mother Night, Welcome to the Monkey House, The Sirens of Titan, and Player Piano) and intend to read all of them at some point in my life. I absolutely love Vonnegut, even my least favorite books of his are still securely in my top 100 all time.
I discovered him through a friend letting me borrow her copy of Slaughterhouse-five...and I became addicted almost immediately. I think I read Cat's Cradle in a single sitting.
Good to hear friend. How do you like the earlier stuff (Sirens, Piano, Mother) compared to the later stuff? I highly recommend Bluebeard and Timequake. I personally think that Timequake, while being a mix of fiction and autobiographical stuff, is also one of his more "secretive" best works in that not as many people know it well.
Also, I am going to update the thread soon, when I get time, with other assorted works. He wrote a children's book called "Sun Moon Star" and some other various essays and whatnot. He is the man.
I actually found Player Piano to be my least favorite, but Mother Night and Sirens are both amazing, couldn't honestly tell you which one I liked more. However I do tend to agree with popular belief that Cat's Cradle and Slaughterhouse Five were his best novels. I've got a copy of Timequake but I kind of want to read the rest of his stuff in chronological order for no reason in particular.
On November 11 2011 14:37 Mobius_1 wrote: Just read 2 B R O 2 B yesterday. Seems like a cool guy, will definitely read more or his works in the future.
Still catching up on my Wells and Verne and Poe and Lovecraft, so might be a while till I get around to him.
FYI Feedbooks has 2 B R O 2 B and Mars Girl and The Big Trip Up Yonder in their Public Domain, so go there if you want a taster, I suppose.
Those are excellent short stories. Thanks for reminding that they are PD. Also, check out movie adaptations.
There are films for Slaughterhouse-Five, Breakfast of Champions, Harrison Bergeron and 2081 are both adaptations of the same short story as well. Also the play "Happy Birthday, Wanda June" is a good piece as well that Vonnegut wrote.
I will update the OP with all of that when I get time to link it all out.
Absolutely loved Siren's of Titan, and Slaughterhouse Five; Cat's Cradle is currently on the list. Vonnegut has a very interesting style that fly's between genius and unbearable for me. Pretty much a "must-have" for any Sci-fi fan, and Harrison Burgeron is one of my top 5 favorite sci-fi shorts of all time.
That being said...
Is there anyone who LIKES Blue Beard? I mean honestly. No troll, that book was awful. So unlike his other works I can hardly fathom the same man writing it. Stylistically it's all there, but the style with which he writes just doesn't mesh well with the topic of that one.
Someone who liked Blue Beard, tell me why!?!? I feel like I might be missing something. (Though honestly I really do think it's just bad....)
Vonnegut is the reason I strive to read every day, why I hate and love the human race, why I try to make other people's lives a little bit better, why I'm cynical about the application of certain technology, why I'm concerned with societal "progress" and why I even attempted to start writing. Great thread.
Great OP. Probably my favorite writer (though I wont claim to be well read). Slaughterhouse 5, Breakfast of Champions and Welcome to the Monkey House are all amazing. I want to read Timequake at some point when I get the chance.
On November 11 2011 15:51 Kimaker wrote: Absolutely loved Siren's of Titan, and Slaughterhouse Five; Cat's Cradle is currently on the list. Vonnegut has a very interesting style that fly's between genius and unbearable for me. Pretty much a "must-have" for any Sci-fi fan, and Harrison Burgeron is one of my top 5 favorite sci-fi shorts of all time.
That being said...
Is there anyone who LIKES Blue Beard? I mean honestly. No troll, that book was awful. So unlike his other works I can hardly fathom the same man writing it. Stylistically it's all there, but the style with which he writes just doesn't mesh well with the topic of that one.
Someone who liked Blue Beard, tell me why!?!? I feel like I might be missing something. (Though honestly I really do think it's just bad....)
Wow. I LOVE Bluebeard. It is personally one of my favorite novels of all time. Yes, I have to agree that it is different. It is one of the only novels of his that does not have anything even remotely "sci-fi" or "psychological" like in it. I like it because it is a story about a man's evolution with creativity and art. He is striving to communicate and learns how pretentious people can be about things. He fought his entire life to create valuable artwork only to have it degenerate on him, basically his life's work and therefore he was fading away.
In the end the secret of the potato barn holds the details of life that he left out of if simplicity of his paintings. I just find it wonderful on the level of artistic expression and one's communication with that.
On November 11 2011 15:25 Mtndrew wrote: I've always loved this video as a way to see what Vonnegut the person acted like. He was just as witty as when he wrote.
Cat's Cradle, Breakfast of Champions, Galapagos are my favorites. In fact I liked Bluebeard too (@Kimaker: you gotta appreciate the concept of a famous painter using paint that literally falls apart after some time ). Somehow Player Piano never struck home with me, so if anyone can shed on light on that one I'm interested
I like Vonnegut because of his clever post-modern use of the English language, and his ability to introduce strange new concepts that immediately appeal to the reader. I occasionally spot Karasses and Granfalloons in real life
On November 11 2011 16:16 _fool wrote: Cat's Cradle, Breakfast of Champions, Galapagos are my favorites. In fact I liked Bluebeard too (@Kimaker: you gotta appreciate the concept of a famous painter using paint that literally falls apart after some time ). Somehow Player Piano never struck home with me, so if anyone can shed on light on that one I'm interested
I like Vonnegut because of his clever post-modern use of the English language, and his ability to introduce strange new concepts that immediately appeal to the reader. I occasionally spot Karasses and Granfalloons in real life
Ha! Yeah, my wife loves Piano but she is into those style of anti-Utopian, 1984 novels. I think it is okay, just that he really had not found his voice yet at all. I used to have a band called Foma a long time ago...and I always notice things from Bokonism in real life. Don't forget about wrang-wrangs.
On November 11 2011 16:26 Lann555 wrote: Brilliant writer. Seldom found books that were so easy to read, yet had such enormous depth. Wish he was still around
On the death of Vonnegut: I was a huge Vonnegut fan for years before he passed. All my friends knew it and knew he was my hero.
I was at work one night when I get messages from a couple friends on my phone saying "Oh, sorry about Vonnegut" and "Sorry for your loss". I knew right then and there that he must have died...along with my dream of meeting him someday. Oh well. At least we have his body of work.
On November 11 2011 17:06 Omnipresent wrote: This Mural was just added to a building in downtown Indianapolis (off Massachusetts Ave. for anyone familiar with the area). + Show Spoiler +
I'd imagine he'll have feet soon
Yeah, this is epic. I was invited to the opening of the Memorial Library, but unfortunately I could not go (due to living far away and travel and all that) but I am making it a point to head out that way.
His father was an architect and designed many old buildings in the Indy area. I want to see that city.
sirens is one of my top 3 favorite books of all time. i still can't get over how the ending is so merciful despite the novel's frequent jabs at religion. kurt vonnegut blends the best of douglas adams and camus.
On November 11 2011 17:32 intrigue wrote: sirens is one of my top 3 favorite books of all time. i still can't get over how the ending is so merciful despite the novel's frequent jabs at religion. kurt vonnegut blends the best of douglas adams and camus.
Great summation. That is what I love, his brand of humanism which is based on mercy and forgiveness for the sake of mercy and forgiveness, for the futurist ideal that we still have good days for humanity ahead.
On November 11 2011 17:32 iNcontroL wrote: one of my favorite writers... LOVE HIMMMMMMMM
Woot! InControl in the Vonnegut house. =) Thanks for joining us brother.
My favourite novelist. I pretty much agree with the grades in the OP. Didn't really enjoy his 80s stuff that much but then he returned to form with Timequake, which is an absolutely hilarious, autobiographical novel.
So my recommendations are:
1) Slaughterhouse (almost life changing to me and many people I've talked to) 2) Timequake (so funny!) 3) Just work your way through OP's list if you are into those two
Also, if you are not a native speaker I would still recommend reading in english. His english isn't that hard to comprehend and much of his appeal comes from the way he uses the language.
I wear Vonnegut on my name tag at work. I seldom deal with any customers and I've been wearing it so long management doesn't question it. Every once in a while someone recognizes it.
My favorite excerpt, at least off the top of my head, which I think nails the simultaneous humor and depression that defined his writing.
A lot of the nonsense was the innocent result of playfulness on the part of the founding fathers of the nation of Dwayne Hoover and Kilgore Trout. The founders were aristocrats, and they wished to show off their useless education, which consisted of the study of hocuspocus from ancient times. They were bum poets as well.
But some of the nonsense was evil, since it concealed great crimes. For example, teachers of children in the United States of America wrote this date on blackboards again and again, and asked the children to memorize it with pride and joy:
1492
The teachers told the children that this was when their continent was discovered by human beings. Actually, millions of human beings were already living full and imaginative lives on the continent in 1492. That was simply the year in which sea pirates began to cheat and rob and kill them.
Here was another piece of evil nonsense which children were taught: that the sea pirates eventually created a government which became a beacon of freedom to human beings everywhere else. There were pictures and statues of this supposed imaginary beacon for children to see. It was sort of an ice-cream cone on fire.
Actually, the sea pirates who had the most to do with the creation of the new government owned human slaves. They used human beings for machinery, and, even after slavery was eliminated, because it was so embarrassing, they and their descendants continued to think of ordinary human beings as machines.
The sea pirates were white. The people who were already on the continent when the pirates arrived were copper-colored. When slavery was introduced onto the continent, the slaves were black. Color was everything.
Here is how the pirates were able to take whatever they wanted from anybody else: they had the best boats in the world, and they were meaner than anybody else, and they had gunpowder, which was a mixture of potassium nitrate, charcoal, and sulphur. They touched this seemingly listless powder with fire, and it turned violently into gas. This gas blew projectiles out of metal tubes at terrific velocities. The projectiles cut through meat and bone very easily; so the pirates could wreck the wiring or the bellows or the plumbing of a stubborn human being, even when he was far, far away.
The chief weapon of the sea pirates, however, was their capacity to astonish. Nobody else could believe, until it was much too late, how heartless and greedy they were.
I've read everything of his except Jailbird and Player Piano. The quality varies a lot. I reread Sirens of Titan every couple of years, while his last five were largely crap with occasional glimmers of wit. Slaughterhouse is overrated but still good IMO.
If you're starting to read him, Sirens > Cat's Cradle > Breakfast of Champions > short stories (consistently great) > Mother Night > Slaughterhouse. The rest can be safely skipped.
On November 11 2011 17:55 defenestrate wrote: I've read everything of his except Jailbird and Player Piano. The quality varies a lot. I reread Sirens of Titan every couple of years, while his last five were largely crap with occasional glimmers of wit. Slaughterhouse is overrated but still good IMO.
If you're starting to read him, Sirens > Cat's Cradle > Breakfast of Champions > short stories (consistently great) > Mother Night > Slaughterhouse. The rest can be safely skipped.
While I disagree with your opinion, I do agree with the idea. There are some of the books and writings that can be skipped. Most notably that 75-85 period. Out of those books I feel Galapagos is a worthy read and Deadeye Dick is decent, but Slapstick and Jailbird can be easily be skipped and you are not missing much in the grand scheme of things.
His short stories are all good. I have not found one that I was disappointed in reading. I love "Next Door" and "Report on the Barnhouse Effect" a ton, and of course, the famous "Harrison Bergeron."
“And Lot's wife, of course, was told not to look back where all those people and their homes had been. But she did look back, and I love her for that, because it was so human. So she was turned into a pillar of salt. So it goes...
...this book is a failure. It had to be because it was written by a pillar of salt..."
I fell in love with Vonnegut after having Slaughterhouse 5 in a class, his style is delicious, kind of a more refined and subtle Douglas Adams. I love how his works are so layered, so complex in their delivery, while still being very accessible and never a chore to read. Definitely a top 5 author for me.
I read Slaughter House Five for Grade 11 English and after that I immediately got some of Vonnegut's other works. Sirens, Cats Cradle and Welcome to the Monkey House(collection of short stories). By far my favourite author. Glad to see some appreciation for his work!
Absolutely love slaughterhouse 5, haven't read any others but plan to . The opening chapter of slaughterhouse 5 with the 'pillar of salt' passage is probably the most amazing thing I've ever read.
On November 11 2011 18:53 Wocks wrote: always wanted to read is books never really did : /
Well, you should get on it. =) There are a few short stories that are public domain, but really you should start with Slaughterhouse-Five or Cat's Cradle.
On November 11 2011 18:49 Twelve12 wrote: Absolutely love slaughterhouse 5, haven't read any others but plan to . The opening chapter of slaughterhouse 5 with the 'pillar of salt' passage is probably the most amazing thing I've ever read.
I know right?! Like I said before, that opening title page with the rant about him smoking too much and talking about how this book is about aliens. Add that to the "pillar of salt" quote and man, I was hooked. I had found my writer at that moment.
I loved slaughterhouse 5 and cat's cradle. Also liked breakfast of champions, even if the end was completely mindfucked weird (from what I remember; really a "lulwut?").
This thread reminds me I should read all of his works.
While I did enjoy Slaughterhouse Five, Cat's Cradle, and Breakfast of Champions, I also thoroughly enjoyed Mother Night. Mother Night doesn't seem to get too much love out there, but it is definitely worth a read.
I loved both cats cradle and slaughterhouse 5. as good as slaughterhouse 5 is, i think its a pity cats cradle doesnt get as much attention because SH5 is touted as his masterpiece work >_<
god bless you mr rosewater was one of his "quirky" books that really surprised me. it took me alittle bit longer to get through but it really has alot of meaning packed into it.
piano man was kinda meh for me. abit too close to some of the other dystopia books of the past.
i remember liking sirens but not really getting breakfast. none of them was as memorable as cats cradle and SH5 for me.
this thread makes me want to go through and read the books i have from him over and then read more of him. I put him down abit in college because i feel like he was making me abit too cynical >_<
Respect. Loved this man's writing. I always tell myself to read more of his stuff, then i realize i don't read anymore and it makes me sad . Once I return, I'll have to pay more tribute to one of America's greatest writers.
I've been a huge Vonnegut fan for a while now. Mother Night and Jailbird were always my favorites, but all of his stuff is quite good. There's not a single author who writes with more humanity and compassion and general sensibility, and the stories he writes are ridiculous to the point which they accurately depict life in general.
On November 11 2011 23:39 N.geNuity wrote: I loved slaughterhouse 5 and cat's cradle. Also liked breakfast of champions, even if the end was completely mindfucked weird (from what I remember; really a "lulwut?").
This thread reminds me I should read all of his works.
so I went and checked out Timequake and mr. rosewater after posting that. began reading mr rosewater earlier. First books I've read in like a year lol. All because of this thread!
On November 11 2011 23:39 N.geNuity wrote: I loved slaughterhouse 5 and cat's cradle. Also liked breakfast of champions, even if the end was completely mindfucked weird (from what I remember; really a "lulwut?").
This thread reminds me I should read all of his works.
so I went and checked out Timequake and mr. rosewater after posting that. began reading mr rosewater earlier. First books I've read in like a year lol. All because of this thread!
Awesome to hear. Kurt is the man and I just want everyone to continue reading him.
On November 12 2011 02:03 HeaDStrong wrote: I smoke Pall Malls in appreciation of Kurt Vonnegut
I don't smoke like I used to, but on Kurt's birthday I always buy a pack of unfiltered Pall Malls for him.
Hey guys, just popped in because I found this outstanding article and updated the OP with it as well. The article is called "15 Thinks Kurt Vonnegut Said Better Than Anyone Else" and can be found here: + Show Spoiler +
Each quote has a paragraph or two with it as well. Some of the quotes mentioned are:
2. "Peculiar travel suggestions are dancing lessons from God."
4. "There's only one rule that I know of, babies—God damn it, you've got to be kind."
5. "She was a fool, and so am I, and so is anyone who thinks he sees what God is doing."
14. "I have been a soreheaded occupant of a file drawer labeled 'science fiction' ever since, and I would like out, particularly since so many serious critics regularly mistake the drawer for a urinal."
I think what I've learned from Vonnegut is to be mature enough to know that reason doesn't preclude sensibility,to know that utility isn't defined strictly speaking by technology and last but not least that culture (and literature) achieves its purpose by educating the one who is willing to listen.
On November 18 2011 20:08 ioFilip wrote: I think what I've learned from Vonnegut is to be mature enough to know that reason doesn't preclude sensibility,to know that utility isn't defined strictly speaking by technology and last but not least that culture (and literature) achieves its purpose by educating the one who is willing to listen.
This is a brilliant encapsulation. Thank you. I like the first point in that reason (and logic) should never be used as an end point in problem solving, only a beginning and a guide. I think that culture achieves its purpose just by being, whether you listen or not though.
What I find interesting was Kurt's viewpoint on skill and ability. I used to think that if you had a gift you have a certain duty to use that gift. Kurt once argued (I think it was in TimeQuake) that if you have skill or ability you don't owe anyone, including yourself, to use that skill. It is yours to do with as you please. Now, I am still not sure if I agree with that, but your quote reminded me of that. Thanks for sharing and continue reading!
On November 11 2011 23:51 JFKWT wrote: Damn I feel like an arse not picking up the Cat's Cradle at the book sale even though the queue had extended along the perimeter of the hall...
Yeah, I still pick up used copies of his books when I find them at book sales and whatnot. I have given out so many copies of Cats and SL5 and just keep picking up more. If you find cheap Vonnegut books, get them and leave them around the house or on park benches. It is good to share. =)
Well that might be a good conversation about gifts and duties a conversation in which Aristotle or Kant might have a thing to say or two. What I was aiming for was that writing per se is an activity that is "out there" for others to see...to listen..to read... of course Vonnegut shouldn't be coerced to write if he didn't wanted to..but as he did.. i really think that my sincere appreciation of his work makes me regard as a "duty" for someone to read it given the opportunity..and that opportunity is an opportunity to listen to someone ... to be educated by a higher spirit.
On November 18 2011 20:24 ioFilip wrote: Well that might be a good conversation about gifts and duties a conversation in which Aristotle or Kant might have a thing to say or two. What I was aiming for was that writing per se is an activity that is "out there" for others to see...to listen..to read... of course Vonnegut shouldn't be coerced to write if he didn't wanted to..but as he did.. i really think that my sincere appreciation of his work makes me regard as a "duty" for someone to read it given the opportunity..and that opportunity is an opportunity to listen to someone ... to be educated by a higher spirit.
I like that. I would only argue that it does not have to be or isn't a higher spirit, but just another one of us, the humans that create this world we live in.
My love for Vonnegut's work is that I had a good idea of who I was and what I believed, I knew how to deliberate and find right from wrong, but Vonnegut put it together in a simple form that was pleasurable to read and quotable. I was a humanist before I even knew what one was, but what his writings taught me was to take more time and more joy in the little things in life, the minutia, and enjoy the "dancing lessons" as he put it since that is what we are here to do.
On November 18 2011 20:24 ioFilip wrote: Well that might be a good conversation about gifts and duties a conversation in which Aristotle or Kant might have a thing to say or two. What I was aiming for was that writing per se is an activity that is "out there" for others to see...to listen..to read... of course Vonnegut shouldn't be coerced to write if he didn't wanted to..but as he did.. i really think that my sincere appreciation of his work makes me regard as a "duty" for someone to read it given the opportunity..and that opportunity is an opportunity to listen to someone ... to be educated by a higher spirit.
I like that. I would only argue that it does not have to be or isn't a higher spirit, but just another one of us, the humans that create this world we live in.
My love for Vonnegut's work is that I had a good idea of who I was and what I believed, I knew how to deliberate and find right from wrong, but Vonnegut put it together in a simple form that was pleasurable to read and quotable. I was a humanist before I even knew what one was, but what his writings taught me was to take more time and more joy in the little things in life, the minutia, and enjoy the "dancing lessons" as he put it since that is what we are here to do.
Of course some of us are lucky to be near the "end point" already(I was one too)... education could mean just tiny adjustments for some.. but it could mean major adjustments too..I don't think we have to universalize our subjective cases...Vonnegut is for everyone.. We are all humans..but I don't think that by that, one should try to reason that we are all identical..
Breakfast of Champions was the first I read but my favorite so far has been Armageddon in Retrospect. So many well written stories about the human side of war and I feel like Vonnegut's experiences in WWII inspired a great deal of them. I also have a bad habit of never finishing books that I start because of time, so being able to read this one story by story over a long time was helpful.
Vonnegut is incredible and hilarious. I'm reading Galapagos now, and loving it, swinging between wanting to laugh out loud and cry my eyes out every page. This is I think the 6th book I've read by him, I think Sirens of Titan has been my favorite so far. If I could write like somebody, I would want to write like Vonnegut. Sci-fi, social commentary, and satire, what more could you ask for!
Yes a amazing writer but even more than that a great person. I love all his quotes and interviews that ive seen, just has a a lot of true knowledge about the world. I guess to a degree that's why i like his books so much. <3
On November 19 2011 14:16 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: HOCUS POCUS is one of my favorite all-time novels.
See, I like Hocus Pocus, but not as much as my wife, who loves it. I think it is great in many ways, but compared to the novels around it in BlueBeard and Timequake, I think it is not nearly as good.
I do like the theme about the school/prison as well as the theme revolving around the perpetual motion machines. It is interesting, but I think in the end I just did not relate as well with the main character as much as in other books.
That being said, it is always great for anyone to connect with KV, no matter which book speaks to you. =)
Vonnegut's books shattered the very foundation of my existence ( I've read SH-5, Cat's Cradle, Sirens of Titan, Mother Night, Breakfast of Champions, and God Bless You Mr. Rosewater and plan on reading them all eventully).
My 2 favorites are probably Cat's Cradle and Sirens of Titan but Slapstick also holds a special place in my heart and is very underrated.
I like to put Vonnegut books after very challenging reads in my book stack as something to kind of "wind down" on.
On November 19 2011 16:22 Foreplay wrote: Vonnegut's books shattered the very foundation of my existence ( I've read SH-5, Cat's Cradle, Sirens of Titan, Mother Night, Breakfast of Champions, and God Bless You Mr. Rosewater and plan on reading them all eventully).
My 2 favorites are probably Cat's Cradle and Sirens of Titan but Slapstick also holds a special place in my heart and is very underrated.
I like to put Vonnegut books after very challenging reads in my book stack as something to kind of "wind down" on.
I am not the biggest fan of Slapstick, but I do think it is underrated. It is a book that seems to take a ton of more meaning when you know and have stake in the author. If you don't know KV and his life, the book is kind of garbled I think, and that is why I think some people don't get into it at all. Either that, or if you have some personal stake as to what the overall theme of the book is about, then it means something.
The few that really hold dear to my heart of SL5 and Timequake. I still get teary when I read certain parts of those, but for those 75-85 novels, I think it is Deadeye Dick that is the most underrated. I think about the boy, the mistake that he makes, and the way his family pulled around him to try to be sure that the mistake doesn't affect his life, but in the end it always does and always will affect him.
Hey Vonnegutians, here is just some news and updates from the Vonnegut Library in Indianapolis. If you live in the area, I recommend that you stop and check the place out:
KVML Events this weekend and beyond Happy New Year, you wonderful Vonnegutians!
Friday, January 6th, 6 p.m.: Make your way to the Vonnegut Library this Friday night at 6 p.m. to see artist Jason Turner's work and hear about his experiences as part of the KVML's IDADA First Friday experience. Jason studied at Purdue and in London and teaches art in the northern part of Indiana. He will showcase a portrait of Vonnegut in addition to other work. This event is free.
Sunday, January 8th, 2 p.m.: Historian and author Nelson Price (host of Hoosier History Live) will share his knowledge of Kurt Vonnegut and touch on the Vonnegut family in Indianapolis. This event is free.
Saturday, January 14th, 11 a.m. - 3 p.m.: The KVML is participating in the Peace Learning Center's 15th annual Martin Luther King Community Festival held at the Christian Theological Seminary, 1000 W. 42nd St. The KVML will share information about our organization and some of the important upcoming events that fit in with the theme.
Saturday, January 28th, 12-5 p.m. (and a ticketed event later in the evening): The KVML celebrates its 1st anniversary on this day! MARK YOUR CALENDARS TO ATTEND THESE EVENTS! (All events are free to the public unless otherwise noted.) · All day: View the library’s newest acquisition, the Schehr Collection, which contains Vonnegut’s first edition books and magazines. · 1 p.m.: Japanese Americans held in internment camps during World War II share their stories of life in the camps. The panelists will touch on the subjects of war, peace, loss, and healing. The Vonnegut Library began an exploration of these themes in November 2011 with a screening of the award-winning documentary The Cats of Mirikitaniand an exhibition of the art of former internee, Jimmy Mirikitani. · 2 p.m.: Liza Newman, granddaughter of famous Hoosier radical and labor organizer Powers Hapgood, discusses her grandfather’s amazing life and also his connection to Kurt Vonnegut. Hapgood was the inspiration for the Kenneth Whistler character in Vonnegut’s Jailbird. · 3 p.m.: A string quartet from Butler University’s School of Musicwill provide live music. · 4 p.m.:Kevin Schehr recalls the stories behind some of the rare Vonnegut items in the Schehr Collection held at the library. · 7PM: The Heartland Actors Repertory Theatre (HART)will present a staged reading of Vonnegut’s only play, Happy Birthday, Wanda June. Tickets are $45.00 per person. Seating for this event is limited, so act now! To order tickets, go to http://www.eventbrite.com/org/435374436?s=1687503.
For more information about any of these programs, contact the library via phone at 317.652.1954, e-mail info@vonnegutlibrary.org, or visit the web site at http://www.vonnegutlibrary.org/. You can also join the nearly 9,000 other Vonnegut fans on our Facebook page: www.Facebook.com/vonnegutlibrary
"If I were a younger man, I would write a history of human stupidity; and I would climb to the top of Mount McCabe and lie down on my back with my history for a pillow; and I would take from the ground some of the blue-white poison that makes statues of men; and I would make a statue of myself, lying on my back, grinning horribly, and thumbing my nose at You Know Who."
This is the final passage of Cat's Cradle by Vonnegut, and by far this is my favorite work of his. Cat's Cradle contained so much truth about humanity it seemed to explode off the page sometimes. I found it different than Slaughterhouse Five which was intensely personal and in so many ways a cathartic experiment.
One thing that I loved about Cat's Cradle was that it gave me a new appreciation for two of the manga that I read, Berserk and Gantz in the same way in which the Bokon at the book's end wishes to die as a monument to "thumbing your nose at God" the protagonists for each of these mangas also seek to challenge their own gods.
On January 06 2012 12:36 Sumahi wrote: "If I were a younger man, I would write a history of human stupidity; and I would climb to the top of Mount McCabe and lie down on my back with my history for a pillow; and I would take from the ground some of the blue-white poison that makes statues of men; and I would make a statue of myself, lying on my back, grinning horribly, and thumbing my nose at You Know Who."
This is the final passage of Cat's Cradle by Vonnegut, and by far this is my favorite work of his. Cat's Cradle contained so much truth about humanity it seemed to explode off the page sometimes. I found it different than Slaughterhouse Five which was intensely personal and in so many ways a cathartic experiment.
One thing that I loved about Cat's Cradle was that it gave me a new appreciation for two of the manga that I read, Berserk and Gantz in the same way in which the Bokon at the book's end wishes to die as a monument to "thumbing your nose at God" the protagonists for each of these mangas also seek to challenge their own gods.
Great view point on Cats. I always liked the book for the theme of balance in conflict. The idea that Bokonism was outlawed, but everyone, up to the president of San Lorenzo were secret practitioners. The idea that in order to maintain stability, you had to have a antagonist, or a scapegoat if you will. This allowed a certain peace because the people could practice in secret and feel as if they themselves were "thumbing their nose" to the establishment. I am not saying it was a perfect idea, but an interesting one.
I believe I have read all of Vonnegut's novels and short stories (though every so often someone finds a few more stories and publishes them). I love them all. I have a special place in my heart for Sirens of Titan, though, because I have never read a more ambitious fictional novel (any suggestions would be appreciated). The ideas + Show Spoiler +
that the entirety of human civilization was brought about to deliver a pointless message from one alien life form to another, that invading Martians could just be humans bamboozled into intentionally dying to form a better religion, that literal reading of the Bible could be the best investment system (for a while), just to name a few,
in that book made me sad to find myself approaching the end and realizing that there was simply no way that I was going to get answers to all the questions raised.
Sirens is also, IMO the most straightforwardly comic of KV's novels--there are more outright jokes than most of the others. All his books have gallows humor, but Sirens seems to make me laugh out loud a but more.
On January 17 2012 15:54 Mr. Black wrote: I believe I have read all of Vonnegut's novels and short stories (though every so often someone finds a few more stories and publishes them). I love them all. I have a special place in my heart for Sirens of Titan, though, because I have never read a more ambitious fictional novel (any suggestions would be appreciated). The ideas + Show Spoiler +
that the entirety of human civilization was brought about to deliver a pointless message from one alien life form to another, that invading Martians could just be humans bamboozled into intentionally dying to form a better religion, that literal reading of the Bible could be the best investment system (for a while), just to name a few,
in that book made me sad to find myself approaching the end and realizing that there was simply no way that I was going to get answers to all the questions raised.
Sirens is also, IMO the most straightforwardly comic of KV's novels--there are more outright jokes than most of the others. All his books have gallows humor, but Sirens seems to make me laugh out loud a but more.
Good deal. Reading about your views on Sirens reminds me of one of my favorite ideas he ever wrote about: the story he talks about where the scientist believes that all intelligence in humanity is sent to those smart people by tiny radio transmitters in the brain. After searching for years and years, studying brains, he finally finds a tiny dot of cells in the brains of all smart and creative people, but not regular people. Then he kills himself because he realizes that for him to have come up with this idea, it must have been transmitted by a tiny radio in his brain.
I just always thought that idea was silly and also strangely human. I love it, but I can't remember which book that was in at the moment.
EDIT: Also, for laughing out loud, the two moments that I remember in my heart laughing out loud while reading KV were: 1. In SL5 when he says that "the champagne was dead. So it goes." Hilarious to state a "So it goes" to the flat champagne and 2. The small character in Cat's who was the elevator operator at the lab who would impress himself with his own jokes, grab his ass, and yell "Yes! Yes!" I still laugh just thinking about if he really existed.
Wow Vonnegutians, here is a great article. This is a recording of the speech that Vonnegut gave in 1992 when he won the "Humanist of the Year" award from the American Humanist Association (AHA). I added it to the OP and I hope some of you fans out there find it a good listen. Thanks!
Hey guys, not a ton of news (considering KV has been gone for awhile now), but here is a recent awesome article in Huffington Post about the most epic literary mustaches. I added it to the OP as well.
On April 15 2012 11:02 Ideas wrote: wow I never saw your bumps before. thanks!!!
Thanks for joining us here man! I try to update at least once a month with some pics or articles or something. Feel free to discuss KV, let us know about what the writings and everything mean to you!
I read Slaughterhouse Five back in high school and I remember I really enjoyed Vonnegut's writing style. I remember he managed to amuse and horrify me at the same time, which was something I hadn't really experience before. I never got around to reading anything else by him, unfortunately, cause I've been busy reading other stuff. It sounds like I should check out Cat's Cradle though, a lot of people are giving it top praise in here.
On April 15 2012 11:35 itkovian wrote: I read Slaughterhouse Five back in high school and I remember I really enjoyed Vonnegut's writing style. I remember he managed to amuse and horrify me at the same time, which was something I hadn't really experience before. I never got around to reading anything else by him, unfortunately, cause I've been busy reading other stuff. It sounds like I should check out Cat's Cradle though, a lot of people are giving it top praise in here.
This is a common experience with some people. His style is brilliantly simple while being both funny, dark, and moral at the same time. Cat's Cradle is an excellent choice for a second read. My first was SH5, but second was Breakfast of Champions, so I usually recommend either CC of BoC. Go for it.
I have read quite a few of Vonnegut's novels now, he is certainly one of my favorite authors. I most recently read Galapagos, which I enjoyed a lot. I must say though, the whole novel is like a build up to something really exciting (the boat voyage/island) with little hints throughout of what is to come, then you reach the end of the book and you are like "wait, what?". But then I realized he already really explained what would happen on the island throughout the novel and the buildup really was the important part. It takes a writer with the skills of Vonnegut to write a compelling, thought-provoking story without actually having much of a plot at all.
This is kind of like Breakfast of Champions, a plot summary of that book would sound nonsensical, until you read it and have your mind blown, (P.S. my favorite Vonnegut moment is in Breakfast of Champions when the artist explains his simple painting to everyone).
On April 15 2012 12:02 YouGotNothin wrote: I have read quite a few of Vonnegut's novels now, he is certainly one of my favorite authors. I most recently read Galapagos, which I enjoyed a lot. I must say though, the whole novel is like a build up to something really exciting (the boat voyage/island) with little hints throughout of what is to come, then you reach the end of the book and you are like "wait, what?". But then I realized he already really explained what would happen on the island throughout the novel and the buildup really was the important part. It takes a writer with the skills of Vonnegut to write a compelling, thought-provoking story without actually having much of a plot at all.
This is kind of like Breakfast of Champions, a plot summary of that book would sound nonsensical, until you read it and have your mind blown, (P.S. my favorite Vonnegut moment is in Breakfast of Champions when the artist explains his simple painting to everyone).
Good take on Galapagos. This book blew me away as the third KV book that I read when I was younger. It is a point that KV stories tend to have, the journey is the real destination, not the end result. It reminds me of the old "Aristocrats" joke. While the punchline is just more of a punctuation at the end of a brilliant sentence.
Sirens has always been my favorite. Spectacular book. Spoke the most to me of anything he's written, the line, "The crowd having been promised nothing, felt cheated having received nothing."
As a side note, does anyone actually LIKE Bluebeard? O_o?
On April 15 2012 12:02 YouGotNothin wrote: I have read quite a few of Vonnegut's novels now, he is certainly one of my favorite authors. I most recently read Galapagos, which I enjoyed a lot. I must say though, the whole novel is like a build up to something really exciting (the boat voyage/island) with little hints throughout of what is to come, then you reach the end of the book and you are like "wait, what?". But then I realized he already really explained what would happen on the island throughout the novel and the buildup really was the important part. It takes a writer with the skills of Vonnegut to write a compelling, thought-provoking story without actually having much of a plot at all.
This is kind of like Breakfast of Champions, a plot summary of that book would sound nonsensical, until you read it and have your mind blown, (P.S. my favorite Vonnegut moment is in Breakfast of Champions when the artist explains his simple painting to everyone).
Good take on Galapagos. This book blew me away as the third KV book that I read when I was younger. It is a point that KV stories tend to have, the journey is the real destination, not the end result. It reminds me of the old "Aristocrats" joke. While the punchline is just more of a punctuation at the end of a brilliant sentence.
Lol, can't believe you just compared Vonnegut novels to the Aristocrats joke.
Anyways, I know this may be a bit off-topic but has anyone read Vonnegut's son's (Mark Vonnegut) book The Eden Express? The topic interests me, apparently it is autobiographical and about his struggle with schizophrenia. I am not typically a fan of autobiography but if he has any of the talent of KV, it could be intriguing.
On April 15 2012 12:22 Kimaker wrote: Sirens has always been my favorite. Spectacular book. Spoke the most to me of anything he's written, the line, "The crowd having been promised nothing, felt cheated having received nothing."
As a side note, does anyone actually LIKE Bluebeard? O_o?
Hey, go back to the first couple pages of the thread. I think you asked the same question. There are a couple responses. Hell yeah I LOVE Bluebeard! =)
On April 15 2012 12:02 YouGotNothin wrote: I have read quite a few of Vonnegut's novels now, he is certainly one of my favorite authors. I most recently read Galapagos, which I enjoyed a lot. I must say though, the whole novel is like a build up to something really exciting (the boat voyage/island) with little hints throughout of what is to come, then you reach the end of the book and you are like "wait, what?". But then I realized he already really explained what would happen on the island throughout the novel and the buildup really was the important part. It takes a writer with the skills of Vonnegut to write a compelling, thought-provoking story without actually having much of a plot at all.
This is kind of like Breakfast of Champions, a plot summary of that book would sound nonsensical, until you read it and have your mind blown, (P.S. my favorite Vonnegut moment is in Breakfast of Champions when the artist explains his simple painting to everyone).
Good take on Galapagos. This book blew me away as the third KV book that I read when I was younger. It is a point that KV stories tend to have, the journey is the real destination, not the end result. It reminds me of the old "Aristocrats" joke. While the punchline is just more of a punctuation at the end of a brilliant sentence.
Lol, can't believe you just compared Vonnegut novels to the Aristocrats joke.
Anyways, I know this may be a bit off-topic but has anyone read Vonnegut's son's (Mark Vonnegut) book The Eden Express? The topic interests me, apparently it is autobiographical and about his struggle with schizophrenia. I am not typically a fan of autobiography but if he has any of the talent of KV, it could be intriguing.
So I started it, but I didn't finish. I made it just a couple of chapters in. While it was somewhat interesting, I just couldn't read it due to the crappy old Mass-market paperback version that I have. Someday I will finish it. I know he has a second book as well. I also have Edith's book of paintings which is wonderful.
I also read "Love as Always, Vonnegut as I knew Him" which was really interesting, just to hear the point of view of the man from someone that knew him rather close.
On April 15 2012 12:22 Kimaker wrote: Sirens has always been my favorite. Spectacular book. Spoke the most to me of anything he's written, the line, "The crowd having been promised nothing, felt cheated having received nothing."
As a side note, does anyone actually LIKE Bluebeard? O_o?
Hey, go back to the first couple pages of the thread. I think you asked the same question. There are a couple responses. Hell yeah I LOVE Bluebeard! =)
I know...but I just can't get over the dichotomy....
Sirens of Titan, Cat's cradle, Slaughterhouse 5 all blew my mind. Then BOOM. I read Bluebeard. I love the man's writing to death, but I will never forgive him that book
On April 15 2012 12:22 Kimaker wrote: Sirens has always been my favorite. Spectacular book. Spoke the most to me of anything he's written, the line, "The crowd having been promised nothing, felt cheated having received nothing."
As a side note, does anyone actually LIKE Bluebeard? O_o?
Hey, go back to the first couple pages of the thread. I think you asked the same question. There are a couple responses. Hell yeah I LOVE Bluebeard! =)
I know...but I just can't get over the dichotomy....
Sirens of Titan, Cat's cradle, Slaughterhouse 5 all blew my mind. Then BOOM. I read Bluebeard. I love the man's writing to death, but I will never forgive him that book
LoL! See, this is almost how I felt when reading Jailbird...not impressed with that one at all, but Bluebeard is one of my favorite books ever written, not just Vonnegut books. I love the simple humanity of it all, its take on art and legacy, the various differences in opinions and all. I think it is great. I will forgive you for that one.
Here we go guys. This is a cool article about, of all things, Major League Soccer, in which the writer uses a quote from the Vonnegut character Rabo Karabekian to create an analogy about the state of MLS. It is a cool and interesting read, especially if you are into soccer:
I'm growing into quite the Vonnegut fan - earlier this year I picked up Cat's Cradle and Slaughterhouse-Five and fell in love with both books - particularly the former. Cat's Cradle represented everything that I have ever wanted to see in a single story: I'm still trying to wrap my head around how he fit so much into such a small book so well. And then he did it again in Slaughterhouse-Five.
Having aroused the suspicion in me that these two books might not just be flukes, I decided to pick up Galapagos which I have just started and which seems to confirm my suspicions.
Vonnegut might be one of the most underrated geniuses of the 20th century.
Haha it so ridiculous to see this thread today! Just wrote a 15 page answer on slaughterhouse five in my university finals only several hours ago! Kurt Vonnegut cannot be praised enough for his genius. I would have loved to sit down and talk with, such a shame he is dead already. So it goes.
That scene with the planes dropping bombs in reverse time completely altered my fragile highschool-age brain lol. Permanently knocked me out of the fantasy genre and served as a stepping-stone to going back in time to read classics and more challenging literature.
I'm growing into quite the Vonnegut fan - earlier this year I picked up Cat's Cradle and Slaughterhouse-Five and fell in love with both books - particularly the former. Cat's Cradle represented everything that I have ever wanted to see in a single story: I'm still trying to wrap my head around how he fit so much into such a small book so well. And then he did it again in Slaughterhouse-Five.
Having aroused the suspicion in me that these two books might not just be flukes, I decided to pick up Galapagos which I have just started and which seems to confirm my suspicions.
Vonnegut might be one of the most underrated geniuses of the 20th century.
Welcome to the world of Vonnegut friend. Galapagos was my 3rd KV book and I love it. If you read SL5 and Cats, I recommend Breakfast of Champions, TimeQuake, and Sirens of Titan as the next ones. He is the man.
On May 19 2012 22:09 Nekosan78 wrote: Haha it so ridiculous to see this thread today! Just wrote a 15 page answer on slaughterhouse five in my university finals only several hours ago! Kurt Vonnegut cannot be praised enough for his genius. I would have loved to sit down and talk with, such a shame he is dead already. So it goes.
I still quote SL5 on a daily basis.
On May 19 2012 22:20 mikedebo wrote: +1
That scene with the planes dropping bombs in reverse time completely altered my fragile highschool-age brain lol. Permanently knocked me out of the fantasy genre and served as a stepping-stone to going back in time to read classics and more challenging literature.
The reverse bomb scene is one of the greatest pieces of writing IMO in the English language. That book is full of small parts like that which bring so much insight and human nature to life for me. I love the part where he talks about being crammed into the train cars and how people would fight and push, except when they would be given food. He sums it up so perfectly by the simple sentence: "We shared."
It has been a while since there was much post-worthy, but for Vonnegut fans, I found this interesting article today. It is talking about the use of the semi-colon in writing and specifically how Vonnegut hated its use. I always use the Vonnegut quote myself:
They are transvestite hermaphrodites representing absolutely nothing. All they do is show you’ve been to college.
This article states how writer used to agree, but has finally started finding a place for the use of it. I hope Vonnegut fans will enjoy the read. It comes complete with this pic:
The writer was struck by the famous quote from Isaac Babel where he states:
No iron can pierce a heart with such force as a period put just at the right place.
What do you guys think? I still think that the semicolon is an annoyance in reading. There are times when I am writing that I want to use it, but then whenever I type it in myself, I just think it looks trashy. LoL.
On July 05 2012 09:42 Shadowbite wrote: A really great author. I can't believe no one has posted this yet. A great cameo in the awesome movie "Back to School". + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQnAhSzb4gY
Yeah, that was a great cameo and one of the great 80s films. I keep meaning to order one of the "Welcome to the Monkey House" DVDs but it is one of those that I always look at, and always put back for something else. There are a few more appearances like the commercial director in the 90s version of "Breakfast of Champions." I will add this vid to the OP. Thanks!
On September 14 2012 17:06 Azera wrote: Just started reading Vonnegut, finished Breakfast Of Champions.
I love him.
Oh my, a newbie to KV? Well, I am glad to hear you joined our little rag-tag bunch here. BoC was the second KV novel I ever read and still one of the best, especially when you learn about his life, how it was written during a bit of a mid-life era surrounding his 50th birthday, and what it meant for him. It was at that point that he decided to stop torturing our poor friend Kilgore Trout. In later books, Trout becomes a famous writer and hero for humanity.
TimeQuake is, in my opinion, one of his best. There is a chapter where he talks about his sister and I wept when I read it the first time. I liked the half-fiction/half-biographical nature of the book. I still wish though that we could have had some kind of finished product to "TimeQuake 1."
On September 14 2012 18:14 Azera wrote: Heh. I really can't wait to get on to Cats Cradle and all that good stuff. Such an amazing guy, Kurt.
If you really want to feel old, I'm 15. Also, remember that time where we talked about the Bealtes?
It is all good. I am always amazed when I think about my age because I have always felt younger than I am. I am 31 now, but I honestly forget that unless I think about it directly. Multiple times in my life when I birthday comes around, I usually have to count the years to remember my age just because it was never much of a factor to me. If you can read Vonnegut and rock out to the Beatles at 15, then you are on the right path. Haha.
The OP should have been written in reverse-chronological order, like that scene of the bombing of Dresden that completely altered my brain when I was 16 haha
On September 14 2012 18:42 Azera wrote: It's a lonely path too. There's nobody to talk to but my English teacher about the literature I read.
Unfortunate. But now everything's changed - you can talk to amazombie and share your emotional up-and-downs while reading more Kurt in a vintage cover. I will be here waiting for these great conversations to happen, I know you won't dissappoint!
On September 14 2012 18:42 Azera wrote: It's a lonely path too. There's nobody to talk to but my English teacher about the literature I read.
Unfortunate. But now everything's changed - you can talk to amazombie and share your emotional up-and-downs while reading more Kurt in a vintage cover. I will be here waiting for these great conversations to happen, I know you won't dissappoint!
I read Jailbird over the summer, since we had it lying around the house and I was looking to read some classic literature. It wasn't as good as I had hoped. It was kind of interesting, and amusing in the way that Vonnegut likes to be, but no where near the quality of slaughterhouse 5. It looks like most people think Jailbird is one of his worse books though.
On September 14 2012 21:26 Kairo wrote: Inspiring. Will look up KV this fall due to this thread.
Yay! I hope you enjoy his works. If you are interesting in knowing more, always feel free to ask questions here.
On September 15 2012 04:14 itkovian wrote: I read Jailbird over the summer, since we had it lying around the house and I was looking to read some classic literature. It wasn't as good as I had hoped. It was kind of interesting, and amusing in the way that Vonnegut likes to be, but no where near the quality of slaughterhouse 5. It looks like most people think Jailbird is one of his worse books though.
You are correct there. Jailbird is one of his weakest books. That period between Breakfast of Champions and Galapagos into Bluebeard is the weakest point of his career. In that time is when he wrote Palm Sunday, Deadeye Dick, Slapstick, and Jailbird. Out of those three though, I recommend Deadeye Dick the most, but each of those stories were rather personal and don't mean as much outside of the context of his life I feel.
On September 14 2012 21:30 mikedebo wrote: The OP should have been written in reverse-chronological order, like that scene of the bombing of Dresden that completely altered my brain when I was 16 haha
That would have been amazing if I had. LoL. The reverse bombing is one of my favorite scenes ever written in any book. There are so many little things in SL5 that hit home so dearly and that is one of them. I always wished that in the 1972 film they would have done that somehow...if it was ever remade, they would have to incorporate that scene in.
On September 15 2012 07:22 HowardRoark wrote: Harrison Bergeron is an amazing short story.
Yeah, it is interesting. Early Vonnegut had a way of showing very interesting dystopian futures. Have you seen either of the screen adaptations? It is also one of his few short stories that is known well outside of Vonnegut circles.
On September 15 2012 08:46 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Just read Galapagos, it was really entertaining and witty for something that was actually so dark.
Galapagos was the third KV book that I ever read and while I will admit not his best work, it is one of my personal favorites. I love the idea of the human brain, its issues, and how in the story it is what leads us to our own downfall. I also always laugh as he describe the "evolved" human seal-like creature that still giggles when one of them farts. I think that Galapagos is one of, if not the longest, of all his fictional novels. Good read. If you liked that a ton, go on to Cat's Cradle next - also dark and very witty.
Cat's Cradle, Slaughter-House Five, Breakfast of Champions, Time Quake, The Sirens of Titan, Galapagos...
Some of my personal favorites. One of my favorite scenes is in Galapagos when that starving, peasant bell-hop brings that amazingly tender, juicy steak to that rich guy's room... and the guy just feeds it to his fucking dog. Makes my skin crawl. Still remember the day he died vivdly; most of all how no one seemed to care. Felt the same way when Ray Bradburry died. It's pretty sad the state of reading these days. Either people don't read--or they read Twilight. I don't know which is worse.
On September 15 2012 08:57 kellenr wrote: Cat's Cradle, Slaughter-House Five, Breakfast of Champions, Time Quake, The Sirens of Titan, Galapagos...
Some of my personal favorites. One of my favorite scenes is in Galapagos when that starving, peasant bell-hop brings that amazingly tender, juicy steak to that rich guy's room... and the guy just feeds it to his fucking dog. Makes my skin crawl. Still remember the day he died vivdly; most of all how no one seemed to care. Felt the same way when Ray Bradburry died. It's pretty sad the state of reading these days. Either people don't read--or they read Twilight. I don't know which is worse.
Yeah...that is a hard thing to read and one of the underlying points to the novel. I remember the pain when I heard about Kurt's death...that destroyed my dreams of some day heading back east, meeting him, and we become best friends forever and ever. LoL.
Speaking of weird scenes and characters though, Kurt always had a way to make little tiny people and places significant and I have found that it seems that which of those little things speak to you is different for so many people. For me, I always remember that elevator operator in Cat's Cradle that whenever he says a joke says "Yes! Yes!" and grabs his ass. That image is just fucking hilarious to me and he is only in like one short scene! I love it!
Love Vonnegut like no young man should love an old dead writer. Wouldn't hesitate to hug and cradle his coffin with tears in my eyes.
I found an old, hideously pink and yellow copy of 'Wampeters Foma and Granfalloons' in an op shop in my home town a few years back. Definitely recommend tracking down this collection of essays, travelogues and even a short play called Protein to anyone who enjoys his novels for more than the humour irreverence and twisted character sketches. Not sure how widely available it is, my copy's falling apart every way it can, but damn, he is in seriously good form all throughout.
EDIT: The play is called Fortitude, just pulled it out for the warm nostalgic feels and saw my error. Wonder where I pulled Protein from?
On September 15 2012 09:14 Bobbin Threadbare wrote: Love Vonnegut like no young man should love an old dead writer. Wouldn't hesitate to hug and cradle his coffin with tears in my eyes.
I found an old, hideously pink and yellow copy of 'Wampeters Foma and Granfalloons' in an op shop in my home town a few years back. Definitely recommend tracking down this collection of essays, travelogues and even a short play called Protein to anyone who enjoys his novels for more than the humour irreverence and twisted character sketches. Not sure how widely available it is, my copy's falling apart every way it can, but damn, he is in seriously good form all throughout.
EDIT: The play is called Fortitude, just pulled it out for the warm nostalgic feels and saw my error. Wonder where I pulled Protein from?
Yeah, I remember that old cover for WF&G. It is not a hard book to find at all in newer editions though, and yes, Fortitude is an amazing one-act. I know it has been performed a few times, but I would love to see it. He also did a full play called "Happy Birthday, Wanda June" which is, eh, it is Vonnegut, but overall nothing terribly special. I recommend checking it out though if you are into Vonnegut and plays.
In that book, I think it was, (Maybe Palm Sunday or Fates...not sure now...) he did an essay on why we should read the works on Hunter S. Thompson who is one of my other favorite writers. It excited me to much to hear KV's outlook on the great Gonzo.
Love Vonnegut like no young man should love an old dead writer. Wouldn't hesitate to hug and cradle his coffin with tears in my eyes.
As for this, I feel the same way, but also, as far as I know or last I checked, they are not saying where he is buried. I know that in one of his collections, Fates Worse than Death I think, he said where he was planning to be buried, but I don't know...I would love to find out and make a pilgrimage.
On September 15 2012 07:22 HowardRoark wrote: Harrison Bergeron is an amazing short story.
Yeah, it is interesting. Early Vonnegut had a way of showing very interesting dystopian futures. Have you seen either of the screen adaptations? It is also one of his few short stories that is known well outside of Vonnegut circles.
Definitely. 2081 wasn't exactly how I imagined it, but it was excellent. Has anyone seen Mother Night with Nick Nolte? I'm thinking I might check that out..
On April 15 2012 12:22 Kimaker wrote: Sirens has always been my favorite. Spectacular book. Spoke the most to me of anything he's written, the line, "The crowd having been promised nothing, felt cheated having received nothing."
As a side note, does anyone actually LIKE Bluebeard? O_o?
Hey, go back to the first couple pages of the thread. I think you asked the same question. There are a couple responses. Hell yeah I LOVE Bluebeard! =)
I know...but I just can't get over the dichotomy....
Sirens of Titan, Cat's cradle, Slaughterhouse 5 all blew my mind. Then BOOM. I read Bluebeard. I love the man's writing to death, but I will never forgive him that book
This is what's special about Kurt for me. If you look at someone like Bret Easton Ellis, he basically writes the same book over and over.
There are Vonnegut books I identified with instantly (breakfast of champions, cat's cradle...etc) and others that still really challenge me (hocus pocus, deadeye dick). I'm gonna go back and re-read hocus pocus fairly soon and hopefully get more out of it than I did the first time. The fact that it's a Vonnegut novel means there is something there..
On September 15 2012 09:14 Bobbin Threadbare wrote: Love Vonnegut like no young man should love an old dead writer. Wouldn't hesitate to hug and cradle his coffin with tears in my eyes.
I found an old, hideously pink and yellow copy of 'Wampeters Foma and Granfalloons' in an op shop in my home town a few years back. Definitely recommend tracking down this collection of essays, travelogues and even a short play called Protein to anyone who enjoys his novels for more than the humour irreverence and twisted character sketches. Not sure how widely available it is, my copy's falling apart every way it can, but damn, he is in seriously good form all throughout.
EDIT: The play is called Fortitude, just pulled it out for the warm nostalgic feels and saw my error. Wonder where I pulled Protein from?
Yeah, I remember that old cover for WF&G. It is not a hard book to find at all in newer editions though, and yes, Fortitude is an amazing one-act. I know it has been performed a few times, but I would love to see it. He also did a full play called "Happy Birthday, Wanda June" which is, eh, it is Vonnegut, but overall nothing terribly special. I recommend checking it out though if you are into Vonnegut and plays.
In that book, I think it was, (Maybe Palm Sunday or Fates...not sure now...) he did an essay on why we should read the works on Hunter S. Thompson who is one of my other favorite writers. It excited me to much to hear KV's outlook on the great Gonzo.
Love Vonnegut like no young man should love an old dead writer. Wouldn't hesitate to hug and cradle his coffin with tears in my eyes.
As for this, I feel the same way, but also, as far as I know or last I checked, they are not saying where he is buried. I know that in one of his collections, Fates Worse than Death I think, he said where he was planning to be buried, but I don't know...I would love to find out and make a pilgrimage.
Hunter S Thompson that's 'A Political Disease', you're right it's WF&G. Great to see KV's love for him layed out so plain as well. But I never thought that Thompson needed the help KV speculated he may need in the essay... to potentially derail a good topic, I was always reminded of JD Salinger when Hunter reported he was reportedly on the verge of 'a complete mental physical and emotional collapse'. Sure JD had Franny to break down in his stead, and even prepared Zooey to have someone ready to put the pieces back together, but Hunter knows as well as Kurt the needs people have for the shape of a story. Even if it's his own ass he writes about, someone's gotta get that low down in order to have someone get just as high.
On September 15 2012 09:14 Bobbin Threadbare wrote: Love Vonnegut like no young man should love an old dead writer. Wouldn't hesitate to hug and cradle his coffin with tears in my eyes.
I found an old, hideously pink and yellow copy of 'Wampeters Foma and Granfalloons' in an op shop in my home town a few years back. Definitely recommend tracking down this collection of essays, travelogues and even a short play called Protein to anyone who enjoys his novels for more than the humour irreverence and twisted character sketches. Not sure how widely available it is, my copy's falling apart every way it can, but damn, he is in seriously good form all throughout.
EDIT: The play is called Fortitude, just pulled it out for the warm nostalgic feels and saw my error. Wonder where I pulled Protein from?
Yeah, I remember that old cover for WF&G. It is not a hard book to find at all in newer editions though, and yes, Fortitude is an amazing one-act. I know it has been performed a few times, but I would love to see it. He also did a full play called "Happy Birthday, Wanda June" which is, eh, it is Vonnegut, but overall nothing terribly special. I recommend checking it out though if you are into Vonnegut and plays.
In that book, I think it was, (Maybe Palm Sunday or Fates...not sure now...) he did an essay on why we should read the works on Hunter S. Thompson who is one of my other favorite writers. It excited me to much to hear KV's outlook on the great Gonzo.
Love Vonnegut like no young man should love an old dead writer. Wouldn't hesitate to hug and cradle his coffin with tears in my eyes.
As for this, I feel the same way, but also, as far as I know or last I checked, they are not saying where he is buried. I know that in one of his collections, Fates Worse than Death I think, he said where he was planning to be buried, but I don't know...I would love to find out and make a pilgrimage.
Hunter S Thompson that's 'A Political Disease', you're right it's WF&G. Great to see KV's love for him layed out so plain as well. But I never thought that Thompson needed the help KV speculated he may need in the essay... to potentially derail a good topic, I was always reminded of JD Salinger when Hunter reported he was reportedly on the verge of 'a complete mental physical and emotional collapse'. Sure JD had Franny to break down in his stead, and even prepared Zooey to have someone ready to put the pieces back together, but Hunter knows as well as Kurt the needs people have for the shape of a story. Even if it's his own ass he writes about, someone's gotta get that low down in order to have someone get just as high.
Maybe I oughta be in the high thread!
I agree completely. Hunter was Hunter, Kurt was Kurt, and it was all speculation in the end. I mean, Kurt knew Hunter, they had met, but he really didn't know him at all. I think overall it is one of those things that hits well just because it is one hero admiring another of your heroes. That is way nicer than him talking shit about him. Haha.
Speaking on that though, yes Kurt knew what people did for their stories and also what to do with his characters. If you remember or know of Kurt's writing tips he used to preach, a couple always hit home to me, especially when I read certain people like HST. Here they are (I will add to OP as well) in case you don't recall:
1. Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted.
2. Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.
3. Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.
4. Every sentence must do one of two things — reveal character or advance the action.
5. Start as close to the end as possible.
6. Be a Sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them-in order that the reader may see what they are made of.
7. Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.
8. Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To hell with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.
I always think about #6 there, and relate that to Hunter's/Raul's persona, how Hunter was both Raul and not at the same time, both in the books and in real life. Then I think, maybe Hunter is how he is because he believes in KV's #6, trying to find what he was really made of.
Not sure if that actually means anything, but it s a fun thought that I always play with when thinking about these two masters.
On September 15 2012 12:07 NadaSound wrote: This is so awesome!!!!!!!! I was just listening to "Hourglass"(Lamb of God)
AND SO IT GOES!!!!!!!!!
Glad to have you. =) There are a number of good references in KV in music, in fact there is a whole album called "Ice-9 Ballads" by someone, I can't remember right now. I think there was also someone that put some of the Bokonon calypsos to music and made an album out of it. Good stuff.
Read Hocus Pocus. It's less poppy than Cat's Cradle and less obviously philosophical than most of his other books, but deeper than most if not all of them.
On September 15 2012 10:58 Bobbin Threadbare wrote:
On September 15 2012 10:12 TheAmazombie wrote:
On September 15 2012 09:14 Bobbin Threadbare wrote: Love Vonnegut like no young man should love an old dead writer. Wouldn't hesitate to hug and cradle his coffin with tears in my eyes.
I found an old, hideously pink and yellow copy of 'Wampeters Foma and Granfalloons' in an op shop in my home town a few years back. Definitely recommend tracking down this collection of essays, travelogues and even a short play called Protein to anyone who enjoys his novels for more than the humour irreverence and twisted character sketches. Not sure how widely available it is, my copy's falling apart every way it can, but damn, he is in seriously good form all throughout.
EDIT: The play is called Fortitude, just pulled it out for the warm nostalgic feels and saw my error. Wonder where I pulled Protein from?
Yeah, I remember that old cover for WF&G. It is not a hard book to find at all in newer editions though, and yes, Fortitude is an amazing one-act. I know it has been performed a few times, but I would love to see it. He also did a full play called "Happy Birthday, Wanda June" which is, eh, it is Vonnegut, but overall nothing terribly special. I recommend checking it out though if you are into Vonnegut and plays.
In that book, I think it was, (Maybe Palm Sunday or Fates...not sure now...) he did an essay on why we should read the works on Hunter S. Thompson who is one of my other favorite writers. It excited me to much to hear KV's outlook on the great Gonzo.
Love Vonnegut like no young man should love an old dead writer. Wouldn't hesitate to hug and cradle his coffin with tears in my eyes.
As for this, I feel the same way, but also, as far as I know or last I checked, they are not saying where he is buried. I know that in one of his collections, Fates Worse than Death I think, he said where he was planning to be buried, but I don't know...I would love to find out and make a pilgrimage.
Hunter S Thompson that's 'A Political Disease', you're right it's WF&G. Great to see KV's love for him layed out so plain as well. But I never thought that Thompson needed the help KV speculated he may need in the essay... to potentially derail a good topic, I was always reminded of JD Salinger when Hunter reported he was reportedly on the verge of 'a complete mental physical and emotional collapse'. Sure JD had Franny to break down in his stead, and even prepared Zooey to have someone ready to put the pieces back together, but Hunter knows as well as Kurt the needs people have for the shape of a story. Even if it's his own ass he writes about, someone's gotta get that low down in order to have someone get just as high.
Maybe I oughta be in the high thread!
I agree completely. Hunter was Hunter, Kurt was Kurt, and it was all speculation in the end. I mean, Kurt knew Hunter, they had met, but he really didn't know him at all. I think overall it is one of those things that hits well just because it is one hero admiring another of your heroes. That is way nicer than him talking shit about him. Haha.
Speaking on that though, yes Kurt knew what people did for their stories and also what to do with his characters. If you remember or know of Kurt's writing tips he used to preach, a couple always hit home to me, especially when I read certain people like HST. Here they are (I will add to OP as well) in case you don't recall:
1. Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted.
2. Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.
3. Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.
4. Every sentence must do one of two things — reveal character or advance the action.
5. Start as close to the end as possible.
6. Be a Sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them-in order that the reader may see what they are made of.
7. Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.
8. Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To hell with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.
I always think about #6 there, and relate that to Hunter's/Raul's persona, how Hunter was both Raul and not at the same time, both in the books and in real life. Then I think, maybe Hunter is how he is because he believes in KV's #6, trying to find what he was really made of.
Not sure if that actually means anything, but it s a fun thought that I always play with when thinking about these two masters.
That definitely means something, and sure we'll probably never know if Thompson had Vonnegut's writing tip on his mind, he certainly was out to prove himself time and time again. Both men, very proactive, never content with a moment in the past serving to prove what they were made of, striving for a new best.
From all the difference of opinion in this thread I think I need to get my hands on Bluebeard.
Also Vonnegut openly admitted at least once that "he cheerfully ripped off the plot of [Aldous Huxley's] Brave New World, whose plot had been cheerfully ripped off from Yevgeny Zamyatin's We". Another of his writing tips, unwritten, steal no less shamelessly than every other literary genius out there already. Huxley is a fucking boss too, as a side note. ;D
The greatest gift Vonnegut gave to the world (according to me) is the Iowa Writers Workshop. When he joined not long after ww2 (I think) there was less then a dozen people including both faculty and students. He played a significant role in the development of the strongest bastion of american literature - google " famous Iowa writers workshop alumni", and you have a list of major movers and shakers in the last 60 years.
The second greatest contribution to the world (according to me) was the result of his fiction. The ethics of war and scientific development resonate throughout his writing. He lived in a surreal time - ww2 ( which advanced our world in ways innumerable while simultaneously lowering all parties involved to the level of mass exterminators) and in the cold-hot-cold world of perpetual nuclear suspension where a nuclear weapon might fall from the sky and turn the sand to glass at any time.
He was most sadistic to his reader - you can't read one of his 'major' pieces without a soulful examination of the cold hearted thinking of weapons development and war.
The best way I can summarize his actual sentence by sentence writing would be, elegantly simple and written with a grin.
(Thanks op, great thread, I look forward to the day I come here and read the "John Irving appreciation thread" - it is only a matter of time!)
On September 15 2012 10:58 Bobbin Threadbare wrote:
On September 15 2012 10:12 TheAmazombie wrote:
On September 15 2012 09:14 Bobbin Threadbare wrote: Love Vonnegut like no young man should love an old dead writer. Wouldn't hesitate to hug and cradle his coffin with tears in my eyes.
I found an old, hideously pink and yellow copy of 'Wampeters Foma and Granfalloons' in an op shop in my home town a few years back. Definitely recommend tracking down this collection of essays, travelogues and even a short play called Protein to anyone who enjoys his novels for more than the humour irreverence and twisted character sketches. Not sure how widely available it is, my copy's falling apart every way it can, but damn, he is in seriously good form all throughout.
EDIT: The play is called Fortitude, just pulled it out for the warm nostalgic feels and saw my error. Wonder where I pulled Protein from?
Yeah, I remember that old cover for WF&G. It is not a hard book to find at all in newer editions though, and yes, Fortitude is an amazing one-act. I know it has been performed a few times, but I would love to see it. He also did a full play called "Happy Birthday, Wanda June" which is, eh, it is Vonnegut, but overall nothing terribly special. I recommend checking it out though if you are into Vonnegut and plays.
In that book, I think it was, (Maybe Palm Sunday or Fates...not sure now...) he did an essay on why we should read the works on Hunter S. Thompson who is one of my other favorite writers. It excited me to much to hear KV's outlook on the great Gonzo.
Love Vonnegut like no young man should love an old dead writer. Wouldn't hesitate to hug and cradle his coffin with tears in my eyes.
As for this, I feel the same way, but also, as far as I know or last I checked, they are not saying where he is buried. I know that in one of his collections, Fates Worse than Death I think, he said where he was planning to be buried, but I don't know...I would love to find out and make a pilgrimage.
Hunter S Thompson that's 'A Political Disease', you're right it's WF&G. Great to see KV's love for him layed out so plain as well. But I never thought that Thompson needed the help KV speculated he may need in the essay... to potentially derail a good topic, I was always reminded of JD Salinger when Hunter reported he was reportedly on the verge of 'a complete mental physical and emotional collapse'. Sure JD had Franny to break down in his stead, and even prepared Zooey to have someone ready to put the pieces back together, but Hunter knows as well as Kurt the needs people have for the shape of a story. Even if it's his own ass he writes about, someone's gotta get that low down in order to have someone get just as high.
Maybe I oughta be in the high thread!
I agree completely. Hunter was Hunter, Kurt was Kurt, and it was all speculation in the end. I mean, Kurt knew Hunter, they had met, but he really didn't know him at all. I think overall it is one of those things that hits well just because it is one hero admiring another of your heroes. That is way nicer than him talking shit about him. Haha.
Speaking on that though, yes Kurt knew what people did for their stories and also what to do with his characters. If you remember or know of Kurt's writing tips he used to preach, a couple always hit home to me, especially when I read certain people like HST. Here they are (I will add to OP as well) in case you don't recall:
1. Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted.
2. Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.
3. Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.
4. Every sentence must do one of two things — reveal character or advance the action.
5. Start as close to the end as possible.
6. Be a Sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them-in order that the reader may see what they are made of.
7. Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.
8. Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To hell with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.
I always think about #6 there, and relate that to Hunter's/Raul's persona, how Hunter was both Raul and not at the same time, both in the books and in real life. Then I think, maybe Hunter is how he is because he believes in KV's #6, trying to find what he was really made of.
Not sure if that actually means anything, but it s a fun thought that I always play with when thinking about these two masters.
That definitely means something, and sure we'll probably never know if Thompson had Vonnegut's writing tip on his mind, he certainly was out to prove himself time and time again. Both men, very proactive, never content with a moment in the past serving to prove what they were made of, striving for a new best.
From all the difference of opinion in this thread I think I need to get my hands on Bluebeard.
Also Vonnegut openly admitted at least once that "he cheerfully ripped off the plot of [Aldous Huxley's] Brave New World, whose plot had been cheerfully ripped off from Yevgeny Zamyatin's We". Another of his writing tips, unwritten, steal no less shamelessly than every other literary genius out there already. Huxley is a fucking boss too, as a side note. ;D
Yeah, the "We"/"Brave New World" stylings are very evident in the earlier books and stories like Player Piano, Sirens of Titan, even Cat's to an extent.
As for Bluebeard, while I knew it was considered his masterpiece of the later books, I held off on reading it for quite some time. I had no idea what it was about and the cover picture (a leather cowboy-style boot) held no interest to me. Finally after reading most of everything else I could get my hands on, I finally relented. Then when I cracked the book open and saw that it was "The Autobiography of Rabo Karabekian," I was assured that I was going to be in good hands. It is his only real story that has not even the slightest bit of sci-fi reference, a very very human and personal story where Rabo acts as a bit of a stand-on for Vonnegut's life, and the life, in a way, of many aging artists struggling to find meaning in their life and work.
I just recommend it highly because of the simple elements and well-crafted story as a whole. Once you get on it, let us know what you think, what parts speak to you. I don't want to give away too much about Rabo or his old potato barn. =)
On September 17 2012 11:45 AttackZerg wrote: The greatest gift Vonnegut gave to the world (according to me) is the Iowa Writers Workshop. When he joined not long after ww2 (I think) there was less then a dozen people including both faculty and students. He played a significant role in the development of the strongest bastion of american literature - google " famous Iowa writers workshop alumni", and you have a list of major movers and shakers in the last 60 years.
The second greatest contribution to the world (according to me) was the result of his fiction. The ethics of war and scientific development resonate throughout his writing. He lived in a surreal time - ww2 ( which advanced our world in ways innumerable while simultaneously lowering all parties involved to the level of mass exterminators) and in the cold-hot-cold world of perpetual nuclear suspension where a nuclear weapon might fall from the sky and turn the sand to glass at any time.
He was most sadistic to his reader - you can't read one of his 'major' pieces without a soulful examination of the cold hearted thinking of weapons development and war.
The best way I can summarize his actual sentence by sentence writing would be, elegantly simple and written with a grin.
(Thanks op, great thread, I look forward to the day I come here and read the "John Irving appreciation thread" - it is only a matter of time!)
Awesome to have you! Yeah, the Iowa Workshop was an important part of American literary tradition, where your beloved John Irving was a student of Vonnegut. John is a writer that I have read a little of, creates excellently crafted stories, but I just have not gotten around to a lot of his work. I do hope to find the time in the near future though.
On September 17 2012 11:45 AttackZerg wrote: The greatest gift Vonnegut gave to the world (according to me) is the Iowa Writers Workshop. When he joined not long after ww2 (I think) there was less then a dozen people including both faculty and students. He played a significant role in the development of the strongest bastion of american literature - google " famous Iowa writers workshop alumni", and you have a list of major movers and shakers in the last 60 years.
The second greatest contribution to the world (according to me) was the result of his fiction. The ethics of war and scientific development resonate throughout his writing. He lived in a surreal time - ww2 ( which advanced our world in ways innumerable while simultaneously lowering all parties involved to the level of mass exterminators) and in the cold-hot-cold world of perpetual nuclear suspension where a nuclear weapon might fall from the sky and turn the sand to glass at any time.
He was most sadistic to his reader - you can't read one of his 'major' pieces without a soulful examination of the cold hearted thinking of weapons development and war.
The best way I can summarize his actual sentence by sentence writing would be, elegantly simple and written with a grin.
(Thanks op, great thread, I look forward to the day I come here and read the "John Irving appreciation thread" - it is only a matter of time!)
Sadistic in the same way most good novels are, I say! If you aren't soulfully examining cold hearted x and y, you were probably daydreaming.
'An American near Billy wailed that he had excreted everything but his brains. Moments later he said, "There they go, there they go." He meant his brains. That was me. That was I. That was the author of this book.'
There has been a recent release of two short stories by KV that up till now were not released. The interesting part of these releases is that they bookend KV's work. The first story is one of his first stories ever written. It is very unlike KV in setting and somewhat tone, but it is definitely KV. The second story, which I have not been able to finish reading, was a short story that was going to be one of if not the last novel written by Vonnegut. I will add the title of the book when I get home from work today.
In addition to the two stories, Kurt's daughter wrote a real nice into which gives a candid look into the personal life of KV.
On November 02 2012 23:46 xavierofsparta wrote: To all Vonnegut lovers,
There has been a recent release of two short stories by KV that up till now were not released. The interesting part of these releases is that they bookend KV's work. The first story is one of his first stories ever written. It is very unlike KV in setting and somewhat tone, but it is definitely KV. The second story, which I have not been able to finish reading, was a short story that was going to be one of if not the last novel written by Vonnegut. I will add the title of the book when I get home from work today.
In addition to the two stories, Kurt's daughter wrote a real nice into which gives a candid look into the personal life of KV.
You are going to have to show us the titles...the only news that I can find on any new releases were when "Basic Training" was released in March. Amazon is not showing anything nor is Google...
On November 03 2012 05:16 xavierofsparta wrote: The book is titled We are What We Pretend to Be. The short story titles are "Basic Training" and "If God Were Alive Today."
Published by the Vanguard Press in 2012.
So it looks like "Basic Training" had been published before. I was unaware.
Oh yeah, I remember this book. It did just come out, you are correct. As for Basic Training, yeah, it was published in ebooks back in March. Good stuff. I had this in my Amazon wish list, but I have not picked it up yet. I am more excited to read the commentary by Nanette in there. Thanks for reminding us and for a quick review there.
Tiger got to hunt Bird got to fly Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why?
Tiger got to sleep Bird got to land Man got to tell himself he understand.
That is generally one of the most popular "calypsos," as they call them. It makes me want to reread Cats...I really should. I read it a number of times, but not in a large number of years now. Bokonon is still one of my favorite characters from any book.
I was so excited years ago when Richard Kelly wrote an adapted screenplay for Cat's Cradle and it was close to becoming green-lighted by DiCaprio's company (Appian Way), but got shut down. Appian still owns the rights I think, but has not moved forward with it. Of all of Vonnegut's books, I think that CC is one that could definitely make a decent film.
Happy birthday Kurt. This would have been your 90th birthday and it is also the 1st anniversary of this thread. We miss you and find comfort in your words.
Here is an article that the library shared today. I remember reading this when it first came out. It is called "Kurt Vonnegut, Joe Heller, and a Great Thanksgiving Message." I also added to the OP.
True story, Word of Honor: Joseph Heller, an important and funny writer now dead, and I were at a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island.
I said, "Joe, how does it make you feel to know that our host only yesterday may have made more money than your novel 'Catch-22' has earned in its entire history?" And Joe said, "I've got something he can never have." And I said, "What on earth could that be, Joe?" And Joe said, "The knowledge that I've got enough." Not bad! Rest in peace!"
Kurt Vonnegut’s Rules for Reading Fiction A term paper assignment from the author of Slaughterhouse-Five.
Posted Friday, Nov. 30, 2012, at 11:21 PM ET Kurt Vonnegut. Kurt Vonnegut.
Buck Squibb.
Suzanne McConnell, one of Kurt Vonnegut’s students in his “Form of Fiction” course at the Iowa Writers’ Workshop, saved this assignment, explaining that Vonnegut “wrote his course assignments in the form of letters, as a way of speaking personally to each member of the class.” The result is part assignment, part letter, part guide to writing and life.
This assignment is reprinted from Kurt Vonnegut: Letters, edited by Dan Wakefield, out now from Delacorte Press.
FORM OF FICTION TERM PAPER ASSIGNMENT
November 30, 1965
Beloved:
This course began as Form and Theory of Fiction, became Form of Fiction, then Form and Texture of Fiction, then Surface Criticism, or How to Talk out of the Corner of Your Mouth Like a Real Tough Pro. It will probably be Animal Husbandry 108 by the time Black February rolls around. As was said to me years ago by a dear, dear friend, “Keep your hat on. We may end up miles from here.”
As for your term papers, I should like them to be both cynical and religious. I want you to adore the Universe, to be easily delighted, but to be prompt as well with impatience with those artists who offend your own deep notions of what the Universe is or should be. “This above all ...”
I invite you to read the fifteen tales in Masters of the Modern Short Story (W. Havighurst, editor, 1955, Harcourt, Brace, $14.95 in paperback). Read them for pleasure and satisfaction, beginning each as though, only seven minutes before, you had swallowed two ounces of very good booze. “Except ye be as little children ...”
Then reproduce on a single sheet of clean, white paper the table of contents of the book, omitting the page numbers, and substituting for each number a grade from A to F. The grades should be childishly selfish and impudent measures of your own joy or lack of it. I don’t care what grades you give. I do insist that you like some stories better than others.
Proceed next to the hallucination that you are a minor but useful editor on a good literary magazine not connected with a university. Take three stories that please you most and three that please you least, six in all, and pretend that they have been offered for publication. Write a report on each to be submitted to a wise, respected, witty and world-weary superior.
Do not do so as an academic critic, nor as a person drunk on art, nor as a barbarian in the literary market place. Do so as a sensitive person who has a few practical hunches about how stories can succeed or fail. Praise or damn as you please, but do so rather flatly, pragmatically, with cunning attention to annoying or gratifying details. Be yourself. Be unique. Be a good editor. The Universe needs more good editors, God knows.
Since there are eighty of you, and since I do not wish to go blind or kill somebody, about twenty pages from each of you should do neatly. Do not bubble. Do not spin your wheels. Use words I know.
Kurt Vonnegut’s Rules for Reading Fiction A term paper assignment from the author of Slaughterhouse-Five.
Posted Friday, Nov. 30, 2012, at 11:21 PM ET Kurt Vonnegut. Kurt Vonnegut.
Buck Squibb.
Suzanne McConnell, one of Kurt Vonnegut’s students in his “Form of Fiction” course at the Iowa Writers’ Workshop, saved this assignment, explaining that Vonnegut “wrote his course assignments in the form of letters, as a way of speaking personally to each member of the class.” The result is part assignment, part letter, part guide to writing and life.
This assignment is reprinted from Kurt Vonnegut: Letters, edited by Dan Wakefield, out now from Delacorte Press.
FORM OF FICTION TERM PAPER ASSIGNMENT
November 30, 1965
Beloved:
This course began as Form and Theory of Fiction, became Form of Fiction, then Form and Texture of Fiction, then Surface Criticism, or How to Talk out of the Corner of Your Mouth Like a Real Tough Pro. It will probably be Animal Husbandry 108 by the time Black February rolls around. As was said to me years ago by a dear, dear friend, “Keep your hat on. We may end up miles from here.”
As for your term papers, I should like them to be both cynical and religious. I want you to adore the Universe, to be easily delighted, but to be prompt as well with impatience with those artists who offend your own deep notions of what the Universe is or should be. “This above all ...”
I invite you to read the fifteen tales in Masters of the Modern Short Story (W. Havighurst, editor, 1955, Harcourt, Brace, $14.95 in paperback). Read them for pleasure and satisfaction, beginning each as though, only seven minutes before, you had swallowed two ounces of very good booze. “Except ye be as little children ...”
Then reproduce on a single sheet of clean, white paper the table of contents of the book, omitting the page numbers, and substituting for each number a grade from A to F. The grades should be childishly selfish and impudent measures of your own joy or lack of it. I don’t care what grades you give. I do insist that you like some stories better than others.
Proceed next to the hallucination that you are a minor but useful editor on a good literary magazine not connected with a university. Take three stories that please you most and three that please you least, six in all, and pretend that they have been offered for publication. Write a report on each to be submitted to a wise, respected, witty and world-weary superior.
Do not do so as an academic critic, nor as a person drunk on art, nor as a barbarian in the literary market place. Do so as a sensitive person who has a few practical hunches about how stories can succeed or fail. Praise or damn as you please, but do so rather flatly, pragmatically, with cunning attention to annoying or gratifying details. Be yourself. Be unique. Be a good editor. The Universe needs more good editors, God knows.
Since there are eighty of you, and since I do not wish to go blind or kill somebody, about twenty pages from each of you should do neatly. Do not bubble. Do not spin your wheels. Use words I know.
poloniøus
Awesome. I am adding this to the OP. Thank you for sharing!
As for your term papers, I should like them to be both cynical and religious. I want you to adore the Universe, to be easily delighted, but to be prompt as well with impatience with those artists who offend your own deep notions of what the Universe is or should be. “This above all ...”
In response to Kurt's assignment article, Suzanne McConnell has just posted this article in depth about what it was like to be one of Kurt's students. I will add it to the OP as well.
In that class, among Kurt’s several assignments, was one to write a four-page essay on “the mechanical and spiritual limitations…imposed by the short story as compared with the novel.” Though a “grotesque and stupid thing to do,” he wrote, another was to describe in less than twenty-five words the plot of four books we’d read, then discuss “the usefulness or uselessness of plots” to the writer and reader.
He composed the assignment playfully, in letter form, beginning “Dear Gus.” I wrote my paper likewise, from the point of view of a smart but airhead-sounding woman writing letters to her friend about the war ravaging her town between those favoring the short story and those on the side of novelists; her second letter dissected plots, and so on. “Full of life, Suzanne, and that’s all I ever ask of anyone.” He scrawled a fat A.
Also, I just reread Cats, which I hadn't done in years, and am starting a Breakfast reread. This time reading Cats, things were a bit different...my mindset now. I was reading it more as a simple diversion and didn't seem to take as much from it, but that is not always a bad thing. I was just pointing out the difference. =)
On December 08 2012 02:06 GreYMisT wrote: I loved player piano. I might have to reread it again.
I have good friends that love Player and Sirens best, those early dystopian-style books. I personally enjoyed them, but not nearly as much as when he found his voice in the 60s and 70s books. My sleeper favorite though is "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater." I think that one does not get as much credit as it deserves. =)
On December 08 2012 02:06 GreYMisT wrote: I loved player piano. I might have to reread it again.
I have good friends that love Player and Sirens best, those early dystopian-style books. I personally enjoyed them, but not nearly as much as when he found his voice in the 60s and 70s books. My sleeper favorite though is "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater." I think that one does not get as much credit as it deserves. =)
Yea I read that one as part of a class in high school, It was very good though it has been a while.
My mom said that Vonnegut was one of the coolest people she's ever met (when he came to speak at her school). She then proceeded to give me like every book he's ever written :p
He said on multiple occasions (Cat's Cradle notably) that if a scientist can't explain what he is working on to a child, then he is a charlatan. Thought some Vonnegutians out there would appreciate that.
On February 07 2013 10:40 TheAmazombie wrote: This is not directly Vonngut-connected, but when I saw this article I was reminded of something that Vonnegut often said.
He said on multiple occasions (Cat's Cradle notably) that if a scientist can't explain what he is working on to a child, then he is a charlatan. Thought some Vonnegutians out there would appreciate that.
Reminds me of a quote from Einstein: "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
I have a 90 minute each way commute to work, and I've recently discovered the joy of audiobooks with good narrators after dismissing the format for so long. I've also somehow never read Vonnegut so far, but am downloading Slaughterhouse Five, Cat's Cradle, and Breakfast of Champions to my iphone right now. Excited.
On February 10 2013 06:01 Iranon wrote: I have a 90 minute each way commute to work, and I've recently discovered the joy of audiobooks with good narrators after dismissing the format for so long. I've also somehow never read Vonnegut so far, but am downloading Slaughterhouse Five, Cat's Cradle, and Breakfast of Champions to my iphone right now. Excited.
Awesome. I did listen to one of the SL5 audiobooks ones. Overall that one and Cat's will work...I am confused on how BoC will work over audio since there are a number of illustrations that are part of the story. You will have to let us know!
Audiobooks are one of those things that I love, but I never really listen to. I do listen to a lot of talk radio and whatnot though. If you love good audio storytelling, I suggest downloading the podcasts to the radio shows "This American Life" and "Radiolab." Those are the best and most interesting top-shelf audio storytelling you can find.
Good luck with Vonnegut and let us know how it turns out. Find yourself pondering questions surround him or the books, feel free to ask away. =)
This last week, I had the opportunity to re-read the book as an assignment for my local book club. What struck me about it, and I had failed to appreciate the first time around, was the intricate relationship between the story and the neuroscience of free will.
Tralfamadorians don’t perceive time as an arrow, but as an all-encompassing experience of simultaneous past, present and future. Without before and after, there is no cause and effect. To ask yourself, “Why me?” in the face of tragedy makes no sense: there is no why.
A couple of interesting news articles I just found:
First off, a copy of a letter by Kurt offering his services to the JFK campaign, second is the release of a new e-book software, using KV as their first release:
Updated OP with a couple new articles. Here is an excerpt from one of them:
The simplicity of his style. As adjectives go, "simple" is a bit of a double-edged sword. So let me be clear from the outset: I'm talking about the kind of simplicity that cuts right to the heart of matters. Simplicity can be extremely beautiful, and it can also be profound. And in writing, it's surprisingly hard to do well - to write something simple that's also sharp and compelling and elegant.
Vonnegut attributed much of his style to his training as a journalist, where brevity is paramount. But I'd suggest that his scientific background was equally important here (he studied chemistry at Cornell). Scientists tend to have a great love of simplicity, of finding the simple law or equation that underpins the complicated natural phenomenon. For my money, Vonnegut's writing has a similar trajectory. He does a lot with a little, and is the master of finding the pithy phrase that describes perfectly a character, trait or situation.
I know this is a bump, but I found this article today and had to share it with my follow TL Kurt Vonnegut fans. This is a letter that an 84-year old Kurt wrote to a high school. It is lovely.
Dear Xavier High School, and Ms. Lockwood, and Messrs Perin, McFeely, Batten, Maurer and Congiusta: I thank you for your friendly letters. You sure know how to cheer up a really old geezer (84) in his sunset years. I don't make public appearances any more because I now resemble nothing so much as an iguana. What I had to say to you, moreover, would not take long, to wit: Practice any art, music, singing, dancing, acting, drawing, painting, sculpting, poetry, fiction, essays, reportage, no matter how well or badly, not to get money and fame, but to experience becoming, to find out what's inside you, to make your soul grow. Seriously! I mean starting right now, do art and do it for the rest of your lives. Draw a funny or nice picture of Ms. Lockwood, and give it to her. Dance home after school, and sing in the shower and on and on. Make a face in your mashed potatoes. Pretend you're Count Dracula. Here's an assignment for tonight, and I hope Ms. Lockwood will flunk you if you don't do it: Write a six line poem, about anything, but rhymed. No fair tennis without a net. Make it as good as you possibly can. But don't tell anybody what you're doing. Don't show it or recite it to anybody, not even your girlfriend or parents or whatever, or Ms. Lockwood. OK? Tear it up into teeny-weeny pieces, and discard them into widely separated trash recepticals [sic]. You will find that you have already been gloriously rewarded for your poem. You have experienced becoming, learned a lot more about what's inside you, and you have made your soul grow. God bless you all! Kurt Vonnegut
I’m writing to you as a fellow Kurt Vonnegut fan and on behalf of the only museum in the world dedicating to upholding his legacy.
In 2009, a small group of folks in Indianapolis started the Kurt Vonnegut Memorial Library (soon to be the Kurt Vonnegut Museum * Library) in Kurt’s hometown of Indianapolis, Indiana. Since its founding, over 200,000 people have visited this museum or attended its arts and humanities programming.
The Kurt Vonnegut Memorial Library needs your help to secure its new, permanent home and continue its work to uphold Kurt’s legacy. Its current space is for sale and the organization needs to raise $750,000 by July to move into a new, ideal building. As part of its fundraising efforts, the organization is running a Kickstarter campaign to raise a portion of the money needed for the new building. Could you help us by spreading the word about the campaign and encouraging your friends to back our project? Backers receive exclusive Vonnegut-themed rewards.
Please let me know if you have any questions and thank you so much!
All the best, Brock
Help the Vonnegut Library Secure its New Home The only museum in the world dedicated to championing the life and work of Kurt Vonnegut launched a Kickstarter campaign to raise $99,999 to secure its new, permanent home in Indianapolis, IN. The Vonnegut Library’s current building is for sale, and it needs your help to continue hosting artists and thinkers from all backgrounds, supporting veterans, raising awareness about censorship, and offering tours of Vonnegut memorabilia to 15,000 visitors annually. Pledge your support today and receive exclusive Vonnegut-themed rewards!
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