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On November 02 2011 11:10 Paperplane wrote:Any law majors here with the answer?
Corporal punishment is not strictly illegal in any state, and does not constitute abuse unless deemed excessive.
The point where it crosses over into abuse is not well-defined, which essentially means it's up to the discretion of Child Protective Services, criminal prosecutors, and juries/judges.
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On November 02 2011 11:19 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 11:13 GhostFall wrote:
Yeah the actual punishment doesn't seem bad at all to me.
He whipped her with a belt below the waist. I'd be worried if he started hitting her face or something, but below the waist is just pain for punishment.
I don't see abuse, I just see strict parenting. I think it's stupid so many people see this as abuse. More kids need this type of punishment nowadays.
The part where he got angry tho, is the part that is questionable. You have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about. Just reading your post makes my fucking head hurt. Take a minute and think to yourself, would it feel perfectly normal for me to whip my child 20+ times in a row, while mentally abusing her at the same time, threatening to whip her in the face? Is that something you could see yourself doing nonchalantly? Seriously grow the fuck up. Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 11:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On November 02 2011 10:59 tbrown47 wrote:On November 02 2011 10:37 Kimaker wrote:
While I don't agree with the reason, I see nothing wrong there with the immediate punishment. Yes (having now read the full context of her condition) that was too much. But corporal punishment overall isn't bad.
For me it was the continuation of the conversation that got me riled up. Corporal punishment is fine, I myself was raised with corporal punishment as a possibility, but the fact that he didn't let it go was a bit much for me. Honestly, everyone's going to freak out and say she should be removed from the house, but I think that's ridiculous. She got belted. Woo hoo. Getting belted hurts like a son of a bitch, but it's nothing seriously harmful.
And please don't pull the "mentally scarring" card out. It's not. I promise you.
Gonna agree with this. What really got me were his words, not his actions. When he said things like 'you don't deserve to be in this house', etc. I got belted several times when I was a kid, but it was because I did something wrong. My dad didn't tell me that I didn't belong, he told me to stop doing stupid things. edit: Obviously he was leaning a bit too hard into the swings, as well. Gonna x2 agree with this. Corporal punishment is fine. I rather belt my kids and have them not stealing in the future or doing stupid things that are clearly wrong than sending to their room and being an irresponsible parent. You would rather belt your kids than take the time to actually raise them right from birth so that they never run into situations leading to said punishment? I know plenty of kids that were raised without any form of physical punishment, ahd grew up being very good kids. I also know kids that were beaten with a belt as they grew up and have NEVER fucking changed their outlook on life and continue to do negative things WHILE hating their parents fucking guts. Such a dumb statement to make imo
CALM DOWN, BRO.
I got my ass beat when I was kid. Was it right? I have no idea what that means. Did I learn from it? Hell yes. Is it right for any/every kid? I don't think so. Someone else has a difference of opinion. It is okay. There are plenty of people who can attest corporal punishment was beneficial to them, and there are plenty that will argue it's harmful/unnecessary.
Look at families without corporal punishment: there is no statistical likelihood of them being "better" or "worse" than one's who were beaten if you ADJUST for socioeconomics. There is a disproportionate use of corporal punishment in poorer groups, and the outcomes track to THAT more than the punishment.
I could never hit a kid, but I was beaten and I learned, so I can accept that it is conceivably reasonable in some cases. Not here. But in the abstract at least.
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On November 02 2011 11:21 Sleight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 11:17 InvalidID wrote:On November 02 2011 11:13 CapnAmerica wrote:On November 02 2011 10:58 Kimaker wrote:On November 02 2011 10:57 Zephirdd wrote:
while I do agree that "physical punishment" isn't as bad as people make it out to be, there are limits and this guy goes over the limits A LOT. It's sickening, actually.
I mean, most of it isn't even about how he was trying to "teach" the girl, it was just "you brought this to yourself", "I'm mad at you", "take it on". It wasn't teaching, it wasn't a lesson, it was pure need to vent on her, the pure need to "show who is in control". There are situations and situations, and this is not a correct situation.
It's even sad that a guy like that is a Judge IMO. Exactly. It's not the style of punishment that's bad, it's the delivery. Corporal punishment can be an effective way to teach lessons, but this was not a lesson. I agree. I was raised with corporal punishment and it's absolutely fine to smack a kid (in a non-damaging way) to get a point across that words cannot. This, though, was stupid vengeance and absolutely disgusting. It's child abuse. He's telling his daughter that she doesn't deserve to live in that house, how bad she is, and after he gets mad and talks all that shit to her he leaves and comes back saying he didn't get his beating in yet. Jesus Christ. That's not parenting, that's a little man with anger issues taking them out on someone who has to depend upon him. Disgusting. There's a difference between punishment and taking out your anger on a young girl. Anybody who knows how to parent knows that when you interact with people (let alone your own children) you should act out of fairness, not abusing others for your own iniquities. What? Why do you think it is fine? What point can you get across that words cannot? http://www.cmaj.ca/content/161/7/805.long Seems to indicate it does far more harm then good. "Among the respondents without a history of physical or sexual abuse during childhood, those who reported being slapped or spanked "often" or "sometimes" had significantly higher lifetime rates of anxiety disorders (adjusted odds ratio [OR] 1.43, 95% confidence interval [CI] 1.04-1.96), alcohol abuse or dependence (adjusted OR 2.02, 95% CI 1.27-3.21) and one or more externalizing problems (adjusted OR 2.08, 95% CI 1.36-3.16), compared with those who reported "never" being slapped or spanked. There was also an association between a history of slapping or spanking and major depression, but it was not statistically significant (adjusted OR 1.64, 95% CI 0.96-2.80)." This is based on logical fallacy. It implies causation when actually, it is NOT that people who are beaten are more likely to develop anxiety disorders, etc ... BECAUSE of the punishment. It IS that, in families and socioeconomic situations where corporal punishment is being used, the circumstances are more likely to result in anxiety disorders, etc... Corporal punishment is exponentially higher in the Bible belt and in poor socioeconomic states, which are both associated with situations more conducive to the study's findings than the direct punishments. Your argument misses the point entirely.
Ok here is a longitudinal study that takes into account various confounding variables, and same result: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/5/e1057
"Descriptive and bivariate statistical analyses were conducted to examine associations between all assessed maternal parenting risk factors/demographic features and mother's use of CP (Table 1) and child aggression at age 5 (Table 2). The Kruskal-Wallis test was used for continuous variables because the assumption of equal variances generally was not met; χ2 tests were used for binary and categorical variables."
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I was raised on corporal punishment and I completely disagree with it. There came a time where I finally hit my Father back and that was the last time he ever took the belt to me. There are parents that have the intelligence to come up with alternative ways to teach a lesson, or discipline without hitting their child, and there are those that aren't so bright, they usually resort to corporal punishment.
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This kind of beating is illegal if performed on a regular person on the street right?
It should be illegal if performed on your child.
Despite how disgusting I find it personally, I think a more objective criteria should be used to determine wether this is illegal or not. Belting your child can never be a good thing. There are much better ways to make a point. Particularly when dealing with something as innocent as downloading crap from Kazaa, you can talk about that, specially with a 16 year-old.
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My parents never beat me. I would feel so betrayed if they did... to the point where if something like what happened in the video happened to me, I would have either 1) fought back with all my might and rage, or 2) ran away from home and disown my parents.
Instead I was taught how to resolve my issues in civilized ways, like speech.
Feel bad for the girl, although it did seem like she was spurring it on by not rolling over. At some point, your survival instincts would take over and you'd do whatever it takes to lessen the punishment, right?
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Makes me so thankful for kind and good parents.
I feel sick and tearful from that video.
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On November 02 2011 10:37 VPCursed wrote:
I don't understand.. Shes getting beat.. for using the internet?
i thought judges had to be rational.. what the fuck?
No, she was using Kazaa, which used to be an illegal filesharing program (think limewire)
Still in absolutely no way justifies what I just saw. Nothing does.
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On November 02 2011 11:25 InvalidID wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 11:21 Sleight wrote:On November 02 2011 11:17 InvalidID wrote:On November 02 2011 11:13 CapnAmerica wrote:On November 02 2011 10:58 Kimaker wrote:On November 02 2011 10:57 Zephirdd wrote:
while I do agree that "physical punishment" isn't as bad as people make it out to be, there are limits and this guy goes over the limits A LOT. It's sickening, actually.
I mean, most of it isn't even about how he was trying to "teach" the girl, it was just "you brought this to yourself", "I'm mad at you", "take it on". It wasn't teaching, it wasn't a lesson, it was pure need to vent on her, the pure need to "show who is in control". There are situations and situations, and this is not a correct situation.
It's even sad that a guy like that is a Judge IMO. Exactly. It's not the style of punishment that's bad, it's the delivery. Corporal punishment can be an effective way to teach lessons, but this was not a lesson. I agree. I was raised with corporal punishment and it's absolutely fine to smack a kid (in a non-damaging way) to get a point across that words cannot. This, though, was stupid vengeance and absolutely disgusting. It's child abuse. He's telling his daughter that she doesn't deserve to live in that house, how bad she is, and after he gets mad and talks all that shit to her he leaves and comes back saying he didn't get his beating in yet. Jesus Christ. That's not parenting, that's a little man with anger issues taking them out on someone who has to depend upon him. Disgusting. There's a difference between punishment and taking out your anger on a young girl. Anybody who knows how to parent knows that when you interact with people (let alone your own children) you should act out of fairness, not abusing others for your own iniquities. What? Why do you think it is fine? What point can you get across that words cannot? http://www.cmaj.ca/content/161/7/805.long Seems to indicate it does far more harm then good. "Among the respondents without a history of physical or sexual abuse during childhood, those who reported being slapped or spanked "often" or "sometimes" had significantly higher lifetime rates of anxiety disorders (adjusted odds ratio [OR] 1.43, 95% confidence interval [CI] 1.04-1.96), alcohol abuse or dependence (adjusted OR 2.02, 95% CI 1.27-3.21) and one or more externalizing problems (adjusted OR 2.08, 95% CI 1.36-3.16), compared with those who reported "never" being slapped or spanked. There was also an association between a history of slapping or spanking and major depression, but it was not statistically significant (adjusted OR 1.64, 95% CI 0.96-2.80)." This is based on logical fallacy. It implies causation when actually, it is NOT that people who are beaten are more likely to develop anxiety disorders, etc ... BECAUSE of the punishment. It IS that, in families and socioeconomic situations where corporal punishment is being used, the circumstances are more likely to result in anxiety disorders, etc... Corporal punishment is exponentially higher in the Bible belt and in poor socioeconomic states, which are both associated with situations more conducive to the study's findings than the direct punishments. Your argument misses the point entirely. Ok here is a longitudinal study that takes into account various confounding variables, and same result: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/5/e1057
Only looks at THREE YEAR OLDS. Who beats a three year old? I dunno. I will completely concede that point, but that study is incredibly limited and has no bearing on the use of corporal punishment in general, only on three year olds. Three year olds don't understand causation yet, how could they learn from almost ANY method, including corporal punishment.
EDIT: Also, this DOES NOT ADJUST FOR SOCIOECONOMICS. So I disregard it. That is an incredibly POORLY corrected study. Any study looking at behavior without socioeconomic stratification is a waste of time.
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On November 02 2011 11:24 Paperplane wrote:
Wow it's surprising corporal punishment is still so popular. Here it's really frowned upon, a slap is acceptable but I cannot believe people are defending belting children.
Me neither man. Me neither. My old man never touched a hair on me, but when he wanted to could intimidate the fuck out of me. This is pure horror and disgust. Can you imagine being the girls brother/sister and chilling in the next room to hear your sister in complete pain and agony.
I don't know what she did exactly, but I really can't think of any situation where this belt whipping is acceptable. Even if my kid was stealing, I would not resort to this savagery to discipline my child. Fucking savages man.
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Saw this from Kevin Pereira's Twitter.
This is a fucking joke, this guy better be in prison within the next few days.
Make's me sick to my stomach.
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Didn't dare watch the video. The colors seemed to foreshadow it all.
Just by reading the posts, I feel like puking. Pretty scary stuff...
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Grew up in Orange County, my dad was in the marines for 21 years and i got belted quite often as punishment. Seeing a lot of people's reactions i'm guessing that wasn't the case for most of you growing up and I suppose it has desensitized me somewhat to this form of punishment. While i don't see a problem with punishing a child this way i due believe in reasonable punishment. This however (most anything internet related) i would not deem justifiable. Especially to my daughter. My sons, they'd definitely get the worst of it, but you can't punish a girl like this.
I'm not appalled, i simply disagree with his actions. Not as horrid an offense as some here are making it out to be.
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On November 02 2011 11:25 Sleight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 11:19 eXigent. wrote:On November 02 2011 11:13 GhostFall wrote:
Yeah the actual punishment doesn't seem bad at all to me.
He whipped her with a belt below the waist. I'd be worried if he started hitting her face or something, but below the waist is just pain for punishment.
I don't see abuse, I just see strict parenting. I think it's stupid so many people see this as abuse. More kids need this type of punishment nowadays.
The part where he got angry tho, is the part that is questionable. You have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about. Just reading your post makes my fucking head hurt. Take a minute and think to yourself, would it feel perfectly normal for me to whip my child 20+ times in a row, while mentally abusing her at the same time, threatening to whip her in the face? Is that something you could see yourself doing nonchalantly? Seriously grow the fuck up. On November 02 2011 11:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On November 02 2011 10:59 tbrown47 wrote:On November 02 2011 10:37 Kimaker wrote:
While I don't agree with the reason, I see nothing wrong there with the immediate punishment. Yes (having now read the full context of her condition) that was too much. But corporal punishment overall isn't bad.
For me it was the continuation of the conversation that got me riled up. Corporal punishment is fine, I myself was raised with corporal punishment as a possibility, but the fact that he didn't let it go was a bit much for me. Honestly, everyone's going to freak out and say she should be removed from the house, but I think that's ridiculous. She got belted. Woo hoo. Getting belted hurts like a son of a bitch, but it's nothing seriously harmful.
And please don't pull the "mentally scarring" card out. It's not. I promise you.
Gonna agree with this. What really got me were his words, not his actions. When he said things like 'you don't deserve to be in this house', etc. I got belted several times when I was a kid, but it was because I did something wrong. My dad didn't tell me that I didn't belong, he told me to stop doing stupid things. edit: Obviously he was leaning a bit too hard into the swings, as well. Gonna x2 agree with this. Corporal punishment is fine. I rather belt my kids and have them not stealing in the future or doing stupid things that are clearly wrong than sending to their room and being an irresponsible parent. You would rather belt your kids than take the time to actually raise them right from birth so that they never run into situations leading to said punishment? I know plenty of kids that were raised without any form of physical punishment, ahd grew up being very good kids. I also know kids that were beaten with a belt as they grew up and have NEVER fucking changed their outlook on life and continue to do negative things WHILE hating their parents fucking guts. Such a dumb statement to make imo CALM DOWN, BRO. I got my ass beat when I was kid. Was it right? I have no idea what that means. Did I learn from it? Hell yes. Is it right for any/every kid? I don't think so. Someone else has a difference of opinion. It is okay. There are plenty of people who can attest corporal punishment was beneficial to them, and there are plenty that will argue it's harmful/unnecessary. Look at families without corporal punishment: there is no statistical likelihood of them being "better" or "worse" than one's who were beaten if you ADJUST for socioeconomics. There is a disproportionate use of corporal punishment in poorer groups, and the outcomes track to THAT more than the punishment. I could never hit a kid, but I was beaten and I learned, so I can accept that it is conceivably reasonable in some cases. Not here. But in the abstract at least.
There's a difference between giving your kid a slap for doing stupid shit and whipping it with a fucking leatherbelt :|
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On November 02 2011 11:25 Sleight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 11:19 eXigent. wrote:On November 02 2011 11:13 GhostFall wrote:
Yeah the actual punishment doesn't seem bad at all to me.
He whipped her with a belt below the waist. I'd be worried if he started hitting her face or something, but below the waist is just pain for punishment.
I don't see abuse, I just see strict parenting. I think it's stupid so many people see this as abuse. More kids need this type of punishment nowadays.
The part where he got angry tho, is the part that is questionable. You have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about. Just reading your post makes my fucking head hurt. Take a minute and think to yourself, would it feel perfectly normal for me to whip my child 20+ times in a row, while mentally abusing her at the same time, threatening to whip her in the face? Is that something you could see yourself doing nonchalantly? Seriously grow the fuck up. On November 02 2011 11:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On November 02 2011 10:59 tbrown47 wrote:On November 02 2011 10:37 Kimaker wrote:
While I don't agree with the reason, I see nothing wrong there with the immediate punishment. Yes (having now read the full context of her condition) that was too much. But corporal punishment overall isn't bad.
For me it was the continuation of the conversation that got me riled up. Corporal punishment is fine, I myself was raised with corporal punishment as a possibility, but the fact that he didn't let it go was a bit much for me. Honestly, everyone's going to freak out and say she should be removed from the house, but I think that's ridiculous. She got belted. Woo hoo. Getting belted hurts like a son of a bitch, but it's nothing seriously harmful.
And please don't pull the "mentally scarring" card out. It's not. I promise you.
Gonna agree with this. What really got me were his words, not his actions. When he said things like 'you don't deserve to be in this house', etc. I got belted several times when I was a kid, but it was because I did something wrong. My dad didn't tell me that I didn't belong, he told me to stop doing stupid things. edit: Obviously he was leaning a bit too hard into the swings, as well. Gonna x2 agree with this. Corporal punishment is fine. I rather belt my kids and have them not stealing in the future or doing stupid things that are clearly wrong than sending to their room and being an irresponsible parent. You would rather belt your kids than take the time to actually raise them right from birth so that they never run into situations leading to said punishment? I know plenty of kids that were raised without any form of physical punishment, ahd grew up being very good kids. I also know kids that were beaten with a belt as they grew up and have NEVER fucking changed their outlook on life and continue to do negative things WHILE hating their parents fucking guts. Such a dumb statement to make imo CALM DOWN, BRO. I got my ass beat when I was kid. Was it right? I have no idea what that means. Did I learn from it? Hell yes. Is it right for any/every kid? I don't think so. Someone else has a difference of opinion. It is okay. There are plenty of people who can attest corporal punishment was beneficial to them, and there are plenty that will argue it's harmful/unnecessary. Look at families without corporal punishment: there is no statistical likelihood of them being "better" or "worse" than one's who were beaten if you ADJUST for socioeconomics. There is a disproportionate use of corporal punishment in poorer groups, and the outcomes track to THAT more than the punishment. I could never hit a kid, but I was beaten and I learned, so I can accept that it is conceivably reasonable in some cases. Not here. But in the abstract at least.
Your right, I am going a bit over the top and I apologize for that. I too was beaten as a child by both my parents, and it was more extreme than this video. What did I get out of that? nothing but extreme hatred of both my parents, and I refuse to speak to either of them. Everytime I see something like this, it takes me back to my youth and the shit they did to me and my siblings, and I cant help but get extremely angry at the people that are saying its perfectly fine. It's 1 thing to agree with corporal punishment, its another thing to justify what this guy did to his daughter (above and beyond a simple punishment).
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She takes this video and... posts it on the internet.
If nothing else, this idea alone hopefully will burn a hole through the guy.
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On November 02 2011 11:16 Perseverance wrote:
I personally think parents should be allowed to spank their kids with a belt. Sure there will always be some who abuse it but from my interactions/experiences it seems like there is a lot less discipline in people who were never spanked...or to put it a little bit better, there seems to be more discipline on average in the individuals who were spanked as kids.
All the people I know that weren't beaten as children are just fine with their discipline. I generally find that people with excessive discipline do not speak up enough, and they grow in a narrow-minded way.
Physical punishment is just a tool for those who suck too much at parenting, so they have to rely on outdated methods. Such a style of parenting needs to go extinct, because it's not doing the world any good.
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lol
being 16 and hit with a belt is ridiculous. Thats when you wait for them to go to sleep and fuck them up.
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On November 02 2011 11:29 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 11:25 Sleight wrote:On November 02 2011 11:19 eXigent. wrote:On November 02 2011 11:13 GhostFall wrote:
Yeah the actual punishment doesn't seem bad at all to me.
He whipped her with a belt below the waist. I'd be worried if he started hitting her face or something, but below the waist is just pain for punishment.
I don't see abuse, I just see strict parenting. I think it's stupid so many people see this as abuse. More kids need this type of punishment nowadays.
The part where he got angry tho, is the part that is questionable. You have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about. Just reading your post makes my fucking head hurt. Take a minute and think to yourself, would it feel perfectly normal for me to whip my child 20+ times in a row, while mentally abusing her at the same time, threatening to whip her in the face? Is that something you could see yourself doing nonchalantly? Seriously grow the fuck up. On November 02 2011 11:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On November 02 2011 10:59 tbrown47 wrote:On November 02 2011 10:37 Kimaker wrote:
While I don't agree with the reason, I see nothing wrong there with the immediate punishment. Yes (having now read the full context of her condition) that was too much. But corporal punishment overall isn't bad.
For me it was the continuation of the conversation that got me riled up. Corporal punishment is fine, I myself was raised with corporal punishment as a possibility, but the fact that he didn't let it go was a bit much for me. Honestly, everyone's going to freak out and say she should be removed from the house, but I think that's ridiculous. She got belted. Woo hoo. Getting belted hurts like a son of a bitch, but it's nothing seriously harmful.
And please don't pull the "mentally scarring" card out. It's not. I promise you.
Gonna agree with this. What really got me were his words, not his actions. When he said things like 'you don't deserve to be in this house', etc. I got belted several times when I was a kid, but it was because I did something wrong. My dad didn't tell me that I didn't belong, he told me to stop doing stupid things. edit: Obviously he was leaning a bit too hard into the swings, as well. Gonna x2 agree with this. Corporal punishment is fine. I rather belt my kids and have them not stealing in the future or doing stupid things that are clearly wrong than sending to their room and being an irresponsible parent. You would rather belt your kids than take the time to actually raise them right from birth so that they never run into situations leading to said punishment? I know plenty of kids that were raised without any form of physical punishment, ahd grew up being very good kids. I also know kids that were beaten with a belt as they grew up and have NEVER fucking changed their outlook on life and continue to do negative things WHILE hating their parents fucking guts. Such a dumb statement to make imo CALM DOWN, BRO. I got my ass beat when I was kid. Was it right? I have no idea what that means. Did I learn from it? Hell yes. Is it right for any/every kid? I don't think so. Someone else has a difference of opinion. It is okay. There are plenty of people who can attest corporal punishment was beneficial to them, and there are plenty that will argue it's harmful/unnecessary. Look at families without corporal punishment: there is no statistical likelihood of them being "better" or "worse" than one's who were beaten if you ADJUST for socioeconomics. There is a disproportionate use of corporal punishment in poorer groups, and the outcomes track to THAT more than the punishment. I could never hit a kid, but I was beaten and I learned, so I can accept that it is conceivably reasonable in some cases. Not here. But in the abstract at least. There's a difference between giving your kid a slap for doing stupid shit and whipping it with a fucking leatherbelt :|
Sure that it true, but not relevant. I was belted. I am talking about being belted. KEEP IN MIND: we are not talking about this video. We are talking about the general act. Belting IN AND OF ITSELF is not necessarily wrong. What he did in the video is not the same.
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Not trolling or anything here (great way to start a post, I know), but I really don't see this as THAT big of a deal. Asian parents do worse things to their kids, for even dumber reasons. I mean, I myself have experienced worse beatings (Google: "Chinese feather duster", seriously), where I'd go to school the next day with my arms covered in bruises, and for what? Going to the local arcade after school for half an hour instead of heading straight home. Or not putting the dishes back in the sink after eating. Or spilling sauce or soda on the couch.
That was around a decade ago but not once did I feel "abused". I mean, sure, every kid would "hate" their parents when that shit was going down, but it's not like I have a vendetta against them now. I'm not psychologically "scarred for life". In fact, it's just another story for me to tell my future kids, who will be lucky their dad won't do the same thing to them ('cause their grandparents will probably do it for me, lol).
But in all seriousness, what's up with the daughter uploading a video of it? I personally think that's stupid. To the viewers, it's a 7 minute window into the personal lives of a family, accompanied by a short paragraph, signed by the daughter herself. I don't know anything else! Am I immediately supposed to throw a fist in the air and denounce this guy as the devil himself, without knowing anything else? And is it really necessary to publish his personal information on the Internet, without any form of investigation by authorities?
I'm not defending the guy, I'm just saying this is really being blown into much bigger proportions than it needs to be.
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EPT
