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Gamer community I am disappoint. Not by everyone here, but that there's a similar distribution of opinion amongst the random public...
Imagine if Apple had a recorded video at one of their shin-digs and they had some guy spewing about "c@#%su%&$#ing" android users, etc. - I would have been reading about it in the news. The only difference between it happening at Blizzcon and that is the different community of fans. (e.g. adults?) and what they will allow without raising a ruckus.
Nobody cares about the alliance/horde crap. Unless you're 12. It's the word choices that show the bias against gay people, and that Blizz let it pass.
Words have meaning, and it may not be what you intended, but tough crap. The fault is on you if you're unaware of the arguments for why you do or do not perform certain actions, like perpetuating hate speech.
I guess people dismissing this believe that you can't be held accountable for what you do, and are likely guilty of similar grievances.
I'm not saying I've never said something was gay when it had no relation, but I'll admit fault. The point is we have to try to be better than that, and in a public forum this isn't all that hard to do. Particularly when it's a pre-recorded video, where the content is evaluated prior to being shown.
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I dunno if it's already been said in this thread, but the top comment pretty much summarizes it :
" The fact that anyone would take this man's comments on a faction in an MMORPG seriously just shows how people WANT to be victimized. "
Have a fucking sense of humor, people.
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I just don't understand the naivety where people think words all of a sudden acquire new meanings, because you know, language changes! It just happens like that. There was no reason it happened, the connections to minority groups are completely irrelevant and never was there any debate on whether it should happen, so nobody even had a choice in just accepting the new words.
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On October 28 2011 17:13 ZodaSoda wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 17:10 Critter wrote:On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote:
I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage. I can, have, and will say again that those videos didn't stir up any hate. The game is based on a war between the two factions............ a war..... between the two factions. There's competition there, built into the game, between the two factions. Both sides were shouting for their side/against the other side during the opening damn ceremonies. All the act did was stir up the passion for competition and excitement for our factions in the crowd, which personally was awesome to be a part of. Blaming the alleged assault on that video/concert is as dumb as blaming suicides on Marilyn Manson. If a video/concert is going to push you over the edge into doing something stupid then you were only clinging to that edge by a fingernail. People yelled for the Horde, so other people yelled louder for the Alliance and so on. Same thing happened at the RTS stage. "We have any Zerg players out here tonight?" *Cheers* "How about any Protoss players rooting for ____" *attempting louder cheers* It didn't like it divided the crowd, it united us in our passion for the game. Again, this is all coming from an (ex)WoW player who was on the Alliance. The one sided act got my blood pumping more, got me cheering louder for the Alliance (and for the game and Blizzard for creating such a passionate fanbase). If you didn't like the video... ok, that's your opinion. I thought the over the top nature of it was in itself funny. This hardcore, metal dude getting so amped up over a video game was awesome. He called me a cocksucker and said I should die, oh noes! Zero fucks given, I've shouted the same stuff at sporting events, had it shouted at me, and at the end of the game I've shaken hands with people who like a different team. It's part of the intensity of live events. In my experience very, very few people actually dislike others just because they have a different sporting affiliation, play a different race, are on the other faction, etc. There's competition there but after the game is over you're just two people who love the sport/game/etc. Oh don't worry, I agree with you for the most part, but saying Blizzards actions has "NO" effect, is just bullshit, we all know how easily people can get riled up.
Then it would appear that our disagreement is about the level of effect. I think what they did was fine. At Blizzcon itself, everyone around me, Horde, Alliance, Zerg, Terran, Toss, Diabloers, etc seemed to agree, drinking up the hype with a garden hose and getting pumped for the songs and the following act (Foo Fighters were awesome, btw =D ). So it appears to me that there's a vocal minority that disapprove... many of which weren't even there and are simply speculating on what the attitude in the room was.
On October 28 2011 17:24 Ecology wrote:
Words have meaning, and it may not be what you intended, but tough crap. The fault is on you if you're unaware of the arguments for why you do or do not perform certain actions, like perpetuating hate speech.
faggot1 esp US, fagot [ˈfægət]
n
1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel
2. (Engineering / Metallurgy) a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron
3. (Cookery) a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried
4. a bundle of anything
Words have meaning, but as evidenced above, that meaning evolves over time. Happens for all sorts of words. Calling something 'gay' in today's society often does not mean you're calling it homosexual, degrading homosexuals, or referencing homosexuals in any way. Language is fluid, new words and meanings pop up all the damn time.
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http://vorpalbunnyranch.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/this-gaymers-story/
if this is all true, thats fucking messed up Oo
I think it really was a poor choice by blizzard, idiots like him shouldn't be promoted. ever.
Plus he if you watched the song, he wasn't really essential lol, he just does a few background growls and thats it. It kinda looks like they only brought him because of the video and because he's a well-known musician, at least in the metal scene.
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On October 28 2011 10:52 jester- wrote:
First world problems.
Was not offended and realized the comedy... Sometimes it's better to just take things with a grain of salt and relax.
This exactly.
Racism, hate and discrimination based on sexual preferences (or anything at all) are simply unacceptable. We have to learn the etymology of the word discrimination though:
from L. discriminatus, pp. of discriminare "to divide, separate"
While it is not politically correct to call something "homo", "gay", etc, it is NOT done in a way that should cause serious concern. He does not discriminate between people. He uses this word in the modern context which (one of the interpretations) means something not straightforward or hard enough.
(I may use jokingly insults like that, while I have two close friends of both genders, who are homosexual. It is used in the same way, the word "shit" is used. It has it's own context. When someone yells "SHIT, i've ruined this shirt" you don't actually think about a turd, are you? It's the same for me and expressions like "that's gay". This is the situation for me and I believe for many others who do not like to think thrice before talking. It's bad, but it is done with no harm in mind)
Yes, I've heard the argument that through jokes is when the biggest truths are told.
Yes, I can agree that if noone makes a little bit of noise, this kind of insulting will go on indefinately.
Yes, there is a homophobic trend, product of the extremely harmful and dangerous influence that religions still have in the 21st century.
Yes, it must be stopped.
NO, I do not think the following is a matter of concern:
When a reporter provokes the leader and vocalist of the world's most famous death metal band in a "hateful towards the alliance" spirit. When this guy replies with the word "homo" as an insult among dozens of others.
Remember who this guy giving the interview is. Remember who his onstage persona is. He is the "Corpsegrinder". If you have no idea about the context in which he speaks in this insulting manner, at least try to do a bit of research.
I leave you with this, about the ridiculousness of the whole situation!
+ Show Spoiler +
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Here the statement again from Mike Morhaime:
Dear members of the Blizzard community,
I have read your feedback and comments about this year's BlizzCon, and I have also read the feedback to the apology from Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain. I'd like to respond to some of your feedback here.
As president of Blizzard, I take full responsibility for everything that occurs at BlizzCon.
It was shortsighted and insensitive to use the video at all, even in censored form. The language used in the original version, including the slurs and use of sexual orientation as an insult, is not acceptable, period. We realize now that having even an edited version at the show was counter to the standards we try to maintain in our forums and in our games. Doing so was an error in judgment, and we regret it.
The bottom line is we deeply apologize for our mistakes and for hurting or offending anyone. We want you to have fun at our events, and we want everyone to feel welcome. We're proud to be part of a huge and diverse community, and I am proud that so many aspects of the community are represented within Blizzard itself.
As a leader of Blizzard, and a member of the band, I truly hope you will accept my humblest apology.
- Mike Morhaime President, Blizzard Entertainment
The statement sums it up pretty good. Blizzard violated the own standards that they want to maintain in their products.
The apology is pretty good and honest.
And to the ppl here that think its "just fun" to use sexual orientation as an insult: Maybe its a matter of taste, but I will never understand you there. But for a company like Blizzard its just not acceptable. Thanks Blizzard for your apology.
On October 28 2011 17:39 StoRm_res wrote:http://vorpalbunnyranch.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/this-gaymers-story/if this is all true, thats fucking messed up Oo I think it really was a poor choice by blizzard, idiots like him shouldn't be promoted. ever. Plus he if you watched the song, he wasn't really essential lol, he just does a few background growls and thats it. It kinda looks like they only brought him because of the video and because he's a well-known musician, at least in the metal scene.
Thanks for this link. Everyone thinking this is just simple fun should read this.
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Just in case TS is not trolling: grow some skin plz.
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just sounds like a total douchebag to me.. *shrug*
standard
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I like that video. It's funny, and thats the reason it was shown. You even mention it was censored and you didn't even care when you saw it. There is no anti-gay hate speech, and ofcourse nobody gives a shit about Alliance hate, it isn't real.
I think everyone should make some effort to not be offended by every little thing. You and your 'super-academic friend' (LOL) sound like very upleasant people. Being offended does not entitle you to anything. In short: boo-fucking-hoo, bitch.
I hate that they apologized. So much. Another victory for the spineless.
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12 pages and no protoss jokes? come on internet, you can do better than that.....
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October 28 2011 17:37 Critter Wrote:
Words have meaning, but as evidenced above, that meaning evolves over time. Happens for all sorts of words. Calling something 'gay' in today's society often does not mean you're calling it homosexual, degrading homosexuals, or referencing homosexuals in any way. Language is fluid, new words and meanings pop up all the damn time.
Of course, but during that period of transition of meaning I'm sure we can agree that different people (through their differing experiences) will attach their own meaning to these words. And that many words can be needlessly inflammatory.
Some of the words used by Corpsegrinder are much less open to interpretation.
So if say half of the audience might take it the wrong way. Isn't it prudent to err on the side of caution? I'm not offended really by Corpsegrinder himself, it's more about Blizz giving the go ahead.
--- ok I just read the Morhaime apology. It seemed genuine and I'm glad he had the gumption to acknowledge it.
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faggot1 esp US, fagot [ˈfægət]
n
1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel
2. (Engineering / Metallurgy) a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron
3. (Cookery) a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried
4. a bundle of anything
Words have meaning, but as evidenced above, that meaning evolves over time. Happens for all sorts of words. Calling something 'gay' in today's society often does not mean you're calling it homosexual, degrading homosexuals, or referencing homosexuals in any way. Language is fluid, new words and meanings pop up all the damn time.
hey my nigger, you got it!
..wait.. that doesn't work now does it
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On October 28 2011 17:37 Critter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 17:13 ZodaSoda wrote:On October 28 2011 17:10 Critter wrote:On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote:
I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage. I can, have, and will say again that those videos didn't stir up any hate. The game is based on a war between the two factions............ a war..... between the two factions. There's competition there, built into the game, between the two factions. Both sides were shouting for their side/against the other side during the opening damn ceremonies. All the act did was stir up the passion for competition and excitement for our factions in the crowd, which personally was awesome to be a part of. Blaming the alleged assault on that video/concert is as dumb as blaming suicides on Marilyn Manson. If a video/concert is going to push you over the edge into doing something stupid then you were only clinging to that edge by a fingernail. People yelled for the Horde, so other people yelled louder for the Alliance and so on. Same thing happened at the RTS stage. "We have any Zerg players out here tonight?" *Cheers* "How about any Protoss players rooting for ____" *attempting louder cheers* It didn't like it divided the crowd, it united us in our passion for the game. Again, this is all coming from an (ex)WoW player who was on the Alliance. The one sided act got my blood pumping more, got me cheering louder for the Alliance (and for the game and Blizzard for creating such a passionate fanbase). If you didn't like the video... ok, that's your opinion. I thought the over the top nature of it was in itself funny. This hardcore, metal dude getting so amped up over a video game was awesome. He called me a cocksucker and said I should die, oh noes! Zero fucks given, I've shouted the same stuff at sporting events, had it shouted at me, and at the end of the game I've shaken hands with people who like a different team. It's part of the intensity of live events. In my experience very, very few people actually dislike others just because they have a different sporting affiliation, play a different race, are on the other faction, etc. There's competition there but after the game is over you're just two people who love the sport/game/etc. Oh don't worry, I agree with you for the most part, but saying Blizzards actions has "NO" effect, is just bullshit, we all know how easily people can get riled up. Then it would appear that our disagreement is about the level of effect. I think what they did was fine. At Blizzcon itself, everyone around me, Horde, Alliance, Zerg, Terran, Toss, Diabloers, etc seemed to agree, drinking up the hype with a garden hose and getting pumped for the songs and the following act (Foo Fighters were awesome, btw =D ). So it appears to me that there's a vocal minority that disapprove... many of which weren't even there and are simply speculating on what the attitude in the room was. Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 17:24 Ecology wrote:
Words have meaning, and it may not be what you intended, but tough crap. The fault is on you if you're unaware of the arguments for why you do or do not perform certain actions, like perpetuating hate speech.
faggot1 esp US, fagot [ˈfægət] n 1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel 2. (Engineering / Metallurgy) a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron 3. (Cookery) a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried 4. a bundle of anything Words have meaning, but as evidenced above, that meaning evolves over time. Happens for all sorts of words. Calling something 'gay' in today's society often does not mean you're calling it homosexual, degrading homosexuals, or referencing homosexuals in any way. Language is fluid, new words and meanings pop up all the damn time.
do you actually believe the things you just wrote or are you trying to undermine a point with a red herring
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Fast forward to today, when I found multiple posts on Facebook concerning Fisher's anti-Alliance rant. Some of my super-academic friends (two university professors concerned with history and gender studies, respectively) took some huge offense to this and were blaming Blizzard for basically promoting and condoning this guy (by letting him perform) who was using anti-gay slurs in this video they featured.
Swearing guy. Calls the enemy homos. Swears and rants. Who really takes offense at this kinda thing? He's not polite company, perhaps. But seriously? It was pretty funny.
Swearing phrases,+ Show Spoiler [language] +
"fuck you" - if its a guy saying to a guy or presumably male audience, anti gay
"jesus christ" - anti religious, anti christian
"that homo" - anti gay
... and the list goes on
I mean the effete elite do this all the time. Take offense to this and that, constantly. Pick your battles. If you're gonna do this to a someone like him ... you're not gonna be taken seriously for all your academic merit. If the head of Blizzard, or lead game designer does it in a cool-headed speech, there you strike and call him out. You might as well go to a heavy metal concert and expect to hear no four-letter words.
Pick your battles, you super-academics. Or be ignored even more than we do now.
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On October 28 2011 17:41 Notfragile wrote:I leave you with this, about the ridiculousness of the whole situation! + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc-V3NYckOI
hahahaha never seen that before
-----------------------------------
Grow up. Stop being hurt over nothing.
No --
Stop worrying about other people being hurt over nothing. "WHAT ABOUT THE HOMOS? What will they think??!?"
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On October 28 2011 18:08 Ecology wrote:Show nested quote +Words have meaning, but as evidenced above, that meaning evolves over time. Happens for all sorts of words. Calling something 'gay' in today's society often does not mean you're calling it homosexual, degrading homosexuals, or referencing homosexuals in any way. Language is fluid, new words and meanings pop up all the damn time. Of course, but during that period of transition of meaning I'm sure we can agree that different people (through their differing experiences) will attach their own meaning to these words. And that many words can be needlessly inflammatory. Some of the words used by Corpsegrinder are much less open to interpretation. So if say half of the audience might take it the wrong way. Isn't it prudent to err on the side of caution? I'm not offended really by Corpsegrinder himself, it's more about Blizz giving the go ahead.
If I thought that was the case, sure. I was there, however, and didn't see or hear about anybody being offended until tonight (I'm basing everything off of my firsthand observations, not claiming them as infallible facts, just for the record). The general reaction from the crowd was laughter. We were all high on the rush of the event, and here comes this hardcore metal dude spouting all this over the top stuff about a faction in a video game. Seeing such a hardass get all geeked up over a video game was hilarious, it'd be like Brock Lesner going wild over My Little Pony... it's unexpected, it's out of the norm.
If 13,000 people were offended, yeah, probably a bad move. If 130 people out 26,000 (possible hyperbole, but I'd bet money it was closer to .5% than 50%) were offended... oh well. You can't make everyone happy. As for the apology, Blizzard has to do damage control, it was expected from both sides of the discussion.
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On October 28 2011 17:41 Notfragile wrote:I leave you with this, about the ridiculousness of the whole situation! + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc-V3NYckOI
"Rape the limbless cadaver" Hahahahaha, and people are raging over what he said in that video? But before now had NO problem with any lyrics in the songs? Seriously, take a step back and realize how silly this is.
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lounge music video was funny.
@JieXian
It's not about being personally hurt over anything. TMI, but:I have a gay family member who has done a lot of good for people and I take it as an afront if someone dismisses a person based on some stupid ancillary detail.
If you're not subjected to being a discriminated minority then good for you but many are not so lucky.
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On October 28 2011 17:25 Peanutbutt3r wrote:
I dunno if it's already been said in this thread, but the top comment pretty much summarizes it :
" The fact that anyone would take this man's comments on a faction in an MMORPG seriously just shows how people WANT to be victimized. "
Have a fucking sense of humor, people.
Yup, this. Anyone offended by this should be embarrassed. Grow up.
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EPT
