I went to BlizzCon last weekend and was in the crowd for the closing ceremony, featuring the now-named Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain opening up the show.
Anyone who was there or who was watching it on the livestream probably saw this segment from George 'Corpsegrinder' Fisher, from the death-metal band Cannibal Corpse, just before he made an appearance on stage as a guest performer:
*having trouble embedding video in the post, so links will have to do* + Show Spoiler +
So when I saw it, what he was saying really went one ear and out the other. They censored the crap out of him, I don't play WoW anymore, was never big on faction pride anyway, and furthermore I don't listen to metal so I didn't know who this guy was. All I know is that he showed up during L90ETC's concert to make a cameo performance. That was last Saturday.
Fast forward to today, when I found multiple posts on Facebook concerning Fisher's anti-Alliance rant. Some of my super-academic friends (two university professors concerned with history and gender studies, respectively) took some huge offense to this and were blaming Blizzard for basically promoting and condoning this guy (by letting him perform) who was using anti-gay slurs in this video they featured.
Interesting that I can't find anything on TL about it, maybe everyone's real chill or just didn't notice the situation. I'm unsure where I stand on this, and I'm wondering what everyone else thinks about this too, particularly our gay community (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147829)
Are my friends right, and Blizzard should be ashamed/apologize for allowing this guy to "represent" them during the concert at Blizzcon?
Or was Blizzard without blame here, censoring his "speech" and using it only to incite some WoW faction passion for their concert?
"using the worse language he could think of to insult his mortal enemies": + Show Spoiler +
On October 28 2011 11:54 ChiffonAngel wrote: When the posters in this thread can't make the connection that "using the worse language he could think of to insult his mortal enemies" means using socially accepted homophobic and anti-gay slurs, I'm at a loss. You're too privileged and sheltered and you'll never understand the impact they have. It's bad enough that these slurs are accepted in the gamer and internet cultures, but now you're trying to tell real life people how they should feel about these slurs. This is simply impossible. You haven't lived it, you lack the empathy or compassion to try to understand it and most of all, you don't want to. There's no point in continuing.
On October 28 2011 13:12 blah_blah wrote: This is kind of low-hanging fruit. I mean, it's objectively wrong, but it's also relatively innocuous and basically pointless to get outraged over the actions of the singer of a band whose schtick is being offensive. Kids getting bullied every day in just about every school in America for being gay, or even the widespread, careless use of the word 'faggot' in 'gaming culture', are things that actually deserve attention and examination.
I mean, maybe there are some gay people out there who are way too emotionally invested in video games, and this particular (relatively minor) instance of homophobia in their favorite MMORPG is just too much to bear. I guess that I can understand that, and Blizzard should apologize. But in a society filled with injustices against gays, making a big issue out of insignificant things like this trivializes real, important problems.
On October 28 2011 15:29 SpinmovE wrote: I find it funny that western society teaches children little rules such as "Stick and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me", and we accept it as children. Then we turn around once we become adults and act like every word that causes any negative emotional change in us is terrible, and the person should have to apologize for saying it. The person may not have meant what they said in an offensive manner but that doesn't matter, he should not be able to say it to me!
Steve Hughes has a pretty damn good rant on why being offended is incredibly stupid. What happens when you're offended? NOTHING. Just forget it and move on, he obviously didn't mean anything negative towards homosexuals, he was using a colliqualism. Grow up people.
On October 28 2011 18:43 Mentalizor wrote: To me it's kindda simple... This is in no way a rant on homosexuals. So I'd take no offense at all. A poor choise of words - that's all... Should Blizzard play this? Probably not, but you know what they say about hindsight?
That's like if I said, "well he called them all a bunch of dirty niggers; it was in no way a rant on black people, just referring to a common stereotype we all understand."
The fact that that word continues to remain present in any community makes me sad, even if it is just a word. And it's not even because of it in itself. It's because the community as a generalization sees no problem with it. There's debate over the word nigger now because time has passed and we recognize it for what it was at the time and that it's really non-funtional anymore and shouldn't be offensive because it's not used as such but people shouldn't be afraid of it.
Faggot, and calling someone or referring to anything in that sort of sense..."o well it's just a word". no, it's really not. and what you're doing isn't remotely acceptable. the fact that you (not YOU the person I'm responding to, but the generalized community) don't remotely see that or even attempt to just disappoints me, and is another thing I really don't like about the gaming community.
On October 29 2011 00:02 Zero.Tha.Hero wrote: I think this is clearly an example of overly sensitive homosexuals playing the victim (and reinforcing an otherwise unfair stereotype) and sensationalizing use of a word that in some contexts can be construed as a homosexual slur. The same thing happened here, and does not seem to be an uncommon trend in the gay community. I think the key point we should observe is the changing social and contextual meaning of certain words previously considered to be degradational towards homosexuals, and how the frequent claims of discriminatory use are actually detremental to the efforts to reduce actual prejudice and discrimination in modern culture.
The guy can get up on stage and say anything he wants, all Blizzard has to do is say "We're not affiliated with this guy, he does not express our opinions and/or statements." and they're scott free.
But instead they publish a video of him saying his shit and that kind of implicates them in this regard.
His enthusiasm for the game is absolutely amazing...the stream of invective and idiocy that flows out of his mouth to show his enthusiasm-dramatically less so.
Ridiculous that people are getting angry about this. I think the phrase "You need to get out more" applies to every one of the people complaining, even though I hate it when people use that as a knee jerk reaction to anything anyone on a computer says - it really fits here.
I only heard one reference to gay people, the rest was curse ranting. It was a rant about WoW alliances not a FUCK YOU at gay people.. i mean comon.....
I feel like the use of words like these amounts to really really really bad manners... It's not a crime, but it's a one of the more unpleasant ways to behave in public. Even though no offence is intended, if you use these words in public then you're probably offending quite a lot of people and you probably know it, too. Obviously, being offended isn't the end of the world, but it isn't pleasant, and can be very upsetting for some people.
To be fair, Blizzard did censor the video, so it's clear they don't condone corpsegrinder talking like that. They just wanted to show how passionate he was about the game.
The guy's expressing how hard core he is with his faction. Blizzard wasn't endorsing their views or their message, they just want to show how vehement they are about their game. If you choose to interpret it as anything actually concerning homosexuality, feel free. They more likely used the term only as derogatory terms and at most as a term to mean cravenly and not in their actual meaning of homosexuality. Replace whatever word that pissed you off with fucking and you have the same exact meaning in the right context.
I get that sometimes things can be offensive, but this was obviously a joke and people who take it as more are being a little overly sensitive. Its like getting afraid of a comedian who pokes fun at the use of the n word (Louis CK anyone?)
Who thought anyone would want to listen to this guys inane rants? Even if he wasn't homophobic, hes still way to profane. I remember when I thought swearing that much was cool. Then I turned 13. Bad call on Blizzs part.
I personally am not really offended, but I could see how someone would be.
Id file this in the "poor taste and a good reminder to be more considerate of others in the future" catagory. If they hadnt censored it so much I would probably have much stronger words to say.
Another thing to note is that the entire drama is literally over a drunken rant of a death metal lead singer. I mean really? REALLY? Losing faith in humanity.
On October 28 2011 10:44 Hyuzak wrote: He was obviously joking around and having fun, how anyone can take it seriously is beyond me.
The easiest way people excuse hateful language seeped in vitriol is by saying it's "just a joke". That not only tries to sidestep the issues being raised but also is an indirect way of saying "you're making a big deal out of nothing", effectively shutting down discussion.
Cannibal Corpse has been protested by every group imaginable, including gay rights.. he doesn't hate gay people and taking this seriously is the real joke here.
On October 28 2011 10:48 Fasterfood wrote: Who thought anyone would want to listen to this guys inane rants? Even if he wasn't homophobic, hes still way to profane. I remember when I thought swearing that much was cool. Then I turned 13. Bad call on Blizzs part.
I personally am not really offended, but I could see how someone would be.
Yeah because never swearing makes you the most intelligent person, ever!!!!!!
On October 28 2011 10:44 Hyuzak wrote: He was obviously joking around and having fun, how anyone can take it seriously is beyond me.
The easiest way people excuse hateful language seeped in vitriol is by saying it's "just a joke". That not only tries to sidestep the issues being raised but also is an indirect way of saying "you're making a big deal out of nothing", effectively shutting down discussion.
Ya, but it was just a joke. And people are making a big deal out of nothing.. so... is the only thing you think people can say is to make a big deal out of something that isn't?
But then, so is he. And, I do not think that his apparent 'anti-gay slurs' were in the context of any reference towards sexual preferences, he's merely using the words as an expression of negativity towards something in the game.
I dunno, I don't really think there was any malicious intent going on there. He just compensated for his limited vocabulary with swearing, a lot of people do it, but the way it was used was not 'anti-gay'. Words often transcends their original meaning or use, and become used as a means of expressing something totally un-relatable to its original context, therefore it's connotations completely take a new format.
And as regards to blaming Blizzard or whatever. It was poor judgement to show the video (if they did that), but he is there based upon his musical ability, not whether he is or is not against homosexuals. Blizzard would NEVER associate with him on an intellectual level I assure you. They have nothing to do with this guy, other than that he played music at their venue and he plays their games. His perspectives on anything else are totally irrelevant to them.
I think your friends are getting 'offended' way too fucking easily.
On October 28 2011 10:53 Rostam wrote: So.. the gay slurs he used weren't even actually in the video section they played at Blizzcon? Why does anyone care about this at all?
I agree, I don't see what the big deal here is. People just like to make a fuss out of every little thing.
On October 28 2011 10:48 schmeebs wrote: Maybe people realized its a joke?
I get that sometimes things can be offensive, but this was obviously a joke and people who take it as more are being a little overly sensitive. Its like getting afraid of a comedian who pokes fun at the use of the n word (Louis CK anyone?)
I can understand how people would likely just dismiss it as, "oh, he's joking, obviously, he's talking about freaking WoW. He doesn't really feel that way," etc.
And i also realize that any attempt to have self-imposed censorship doesn't exactly lend itself to being overly popular here, or on the internet in general, i feel like overly homophobic rants and things like that can kind of spur a lot of additional hate and genuinely be offensive.
But, at the same time, it's Blizzcon, so if blizzard wishes to portray themselves in that kind of a light, then by all means, they're allowed to
Edit, apologies, didn't watch the unedited version earlier. In any event, i feel like it's being blown up a little more than needs to be, especially since they edited huge chunks of it out in order to make it appropriate for the audience they had there.
Offended gays will be offended. Personally, even if I were gay, I wouldn't make a big deal out of some fat rocker bashing my guild or whatever in an online game. Blizzard has nothing to do with the opinions of third parties (and they censored all the offensive material), or their alliance/horde preferences, so no they shouldn't be ashamed.
Seriously, why is getting offended some people's hobby?
Are some people so sheltered that this came across as being some overwhelming issue?
Many comedy skits are terribly racist, including against peoples that are already demonized by political agendas and propaganda, and no one makes the biggest issue ever out of stuff like that. :S
EDIT: And do WoW players still inherently hate people just for playing the opposite coalition? @_@
srsly if something offends you just dont watch it and search through the web about it .... get over it and play a game of starcraft instead of stealing peoples time with complaining threads ...
On October 28 2011 10:44 Hyuzak wrote: He was obviously joking around and having fun, how anyone can take it seriously is beyond me.
The easiest way people excuse hateful language seeped in vitriol is by saying it's "just a joke". That not only tries to sidestep the issues being raised but also is an indirect way of saying "you're making a big deal out of nothing", effectively shutting down discussion.
But by saying this, aren't you rejecting the argument that someone is making a big deal out of nothing? Watching that video, the man did not display any signs of prejudice against homosexuals. He certainly seems very blunt, and passionate about the horde, but not prejudice. So why is it unacceptable to state "you're making a big deal out of nothing"?
Blizzard also seemed to play it safe by censoring everything he said, further implying that they meant no offense to homosexuals.
it's far and away more offensive than what's portrayed in that video, which is hilarious by the way, and he's obviously using that language because of his enthusiasm, he doesn't mean it. Again, look up their lyrics. It's just a dude who grew up in a world where he had to use language to shock his audience. it's why he's famous, and it's habit. you're blowing this out of proportion, he meant no harm, and no harm was done. Do you know how hard it is for people to really restrain their vocabulary, the ones they were brought up with especially? hell, this wasn't even live TV, just a random interview. You've heard pro-gamers cuss before right, even when they ARE being broadcasted. It's just habit. And this guy is like 10 years older than the oldest pro-gamer, he grew up before this anti-gay-slur-hilary-duff-commercials thing. And he's just expressing his enthusiasm for the game with the craziest language he could come up with. That enthusiasm was why he was invited to play in the first place.
Yah, i guess blizzard should be at fault, at fault for not thinking of the lowest common denominator, those who poke and prod for controversy. ... that's a bit too harsh, but you know what I mean.
Many comedy skits are terribly racist, including against peoples that are already demonized by political agendas and propaganda, and no one makes the biggest issue ever out of stuff like that. :S
Because people, for whatever reason, like shitty offensive jokes. Jeff Dunham's Christmas special actually beat Stephen Colbert's Christmas special in the same year by quite a margin...and Dunham's whole act is basically having a racist, homophobic, or juvenile puppet spout shit while he looks disapprovingly.
Of course when I watch most of these terrible comedians do their act, they either get booed or the crowd is bored - they generally never get big enough for anyone to care. Shitty comedy (like this song) is shit regardless of how offensive it is.
Many comedy skits are terribly racist, including against peoples that are already demonized by political agendas and propaganda, and no one makes the biggest issue ever out of stuff like that. :S
Because people, for whatever reason, like shitty offensive jokes. Jeff Dunham's Christmas special actually beat Stephen Colbert's Christmas special in the same year by quite a margin...and Dunham's whole act is basically having a racist, homophobic, or juvenile puppet spout shit while he looks disapprovingly.
Of course when I watch most of these terrible comedians do their act, they either get booed or the crowd is bored. Shitty comedy (like this song) is shit regardless of how offensive it is.
Really, a person from a Death Metal band used gay slurs and other bad wording describing the alliance of wow and this shocks you? Have you guys even read some of the lyrics these kinds of bands uses when they have concerts?
Lots of folks are saying already that he didn't have anything against homosexuals, just Alliance players - that may or may not be true, but I think that might be missing the point people who ARE offended (see links in the OP) are trying to make.
That point being, it's using terms like "gay" with a negative connotation and homosexual slurs that's really the problem here. Regardless of his actual feelings, his willingness to use these terms to describe something he hates is a core problem.
Does that add weight to the argument (showing a core cultural problem, where "gay" is used by gamers to signify something bad) or remove weight (they're just words, it's the underlying message that really matters)?
On October 28 2011 11:11 konadora wrote: they took down the uncensored :/
He's just raging a lot and its hilarious. If people can't understand that then I have lost faith in humanity.
Calling someone a cocksucker or fag doesn't mean that that person is homophobic, lol. If you can't put that together by the number of times he says fuck AND the fact he's talking about WOW of all things...
:|
Also I swear that I've seen that video years ago it's def not something he made specifically for blizzcon 2011 i know that.
edit: also i'm confused, in that blizzcon video he is just windmilling through the whole song, why no vocals lol.
Why is it my 2 gay mates who I watched it with laughed if it's SUPER OFFENSIVE?
Sure it's offensive language, but people have to realise a few things.
1) Language evolves. Just as, for example, the word "gay" meant something different 50 years ago, it is being used in a different way half the time now.
2) It wasn't "hate speech" directed at gay people. He wasn't saying "All alliance are homosexual, and I despise you for that orientation!". He was saying "Alliance people suck!".
3) It was censored. If the specific language is something you find offensive, that is why it was censored.
4) I've seen language like that used on TV, in stage performances, in films, and it's not used as "I HATE GAYS" speech, but as a general insult. By the way, faggot is a type of food. Just saying. You have them at Christmas. Why are you offended by that?
5) Sometimes comedy can be "offensive" and not actually be offensive. Anyone from the UK watched Frankie Boyle? You'll know what I'm on about.
This is *one* person having the courage to once again try to explain why this isn't just "offensive" speech, but is hurtful. Try having some empathy for those who's lives have had to suffer from this kind of speech.
On October 28 2011 11:18 IMABUNNEH wrote: Why is it my 2 gay mates who I watched it with laughed if it's SUPER OFFENSIVE?
Sure it's offensive language, but people have to realise a few things.
1) Language evolves. Just as, for example, the word "gay" meant something different 50 years ago, it is being used in a different way half the time now.
2) It wasn't "hate speech" directed at gay people. He wasn't saying "All alliance are homosexual, and I despise you for that orientation!". He was saying "Alliance people suck!".
3) It was censored. If the specific language is something you find offensive, that is why it was censored.
4) I've seen language like that used on TV, in stage performances, in films, and it's not used as "I HATE GAYS" speech, but as a general insult. By the way, faggot is a type of food. Just saying. You have them at Christmas. Why are you offended by that?
5) Sometimes comedy can be "offensive" and not actually be offensive. Anyone from the UK watched Frankie Boyle? You'll know what I'm on about.
It is also a bundle of sticks/ slang for a ciggarette in the UK.
On October 28 2011 11:18 IMABUNNEH wrote: Why is it my 2 gay mates who I watched it with laughed if it's SUPER OFFENSIVE?
Sure it's offensive language, but people have to realise a few things.
1) Language evolves. Just as, for example, the word "gay" meant something different 50 years ago, it is being used in a different way half the time now.
2) It wasn't "hate speech" directed at gay people. He wasn't saying "All alliance are homosexual, and I despise you for that orientation!". He was saying "Alliance people suck!".
3) It was censored. If the specific language is something you find offensive, that is why it was censored.
4) I've seen language like that used on TV, in stage performances, in films, and it's not used as "I HATE GAYS" speech, but as a general insult. By the way, faggot is a type of food. Just saying. You have them at Christmas. Why are you offended by that?
5) Sometimes comedy can be "offensive" and not actually be offensive. Anyone from the UK watched Frankie Boyle? You'll know what I'm on about.
It is also a bundle of sticks/ slang for a ciggarette in the UK.
Well "fag" is, not faggot though. That's just food (and sticks!).
I'm a gamer. I am gay. Why is this offensive to gays? Because he is using the terms "Fag", "Homo", or "Faggot"? He isn't pointing his aggression toward the gay community, he is ranting about noobs and idiots.
People need to stop playing the "Race", or "Gay" card. It's getting old and irritating. And getting uppity about this seems nothing more than someone looking for a reason to get mad at something. I say he is fine, and honestly, this video is hilarious. lol
This is *one* person having the courage to once again try to explain why this isn't just "offensive" speech, but is hurtful. Try having some empathy for those who's lives have had to suffer from this kind of speech.
If you don't like it, cover your ears and don't listen to it. You cannot censor comedy in the off chance that someone watching it gets offended. This was a joke interview with a death metal vocalist.
On October 28 2011 10:29 Johnzee wrote: I went to BlizzCon last weekend and was in the crowd for the closing ceremony, featuring the now-named Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain opening up the show.
Anyone who was there or who was watching it on the livestream probably saw this segment from George 'Corpsegrinder' Fisher, from the death-metal band Cannibal Corpse, just before he made an appearance on stage as a guest performer:
*having trouble embedding video in the post, so links will have to do* + Show Spoiler +
So when I saw it, what he was saying really went one ear and out the other. They censored the crap out of him, I don't play WoW anymore, was never big on faction pride anyway, and furthermore I don't listen to metal so I didn't know who this guy was. All I know is that he showed up during L90ETC's concert to make a cameo performance. That was last Saturday.
Fast forward to today, when I found multiple posts on Facebook concerning Fisher's anti-Alliance rant. Some of my super-academic friends (two university professors concerned with history and gender studies, respectively) took some huge offense to this and were blaming Blizzard for basically promoting and condoning this guy (by letting him perform) who was using anti-gay slurs in this video they featured.
Interesting that I can't find anything on TL about it, maybe everyone's real chill or just didn't notice the situation. I'm unsure where I stand on this, and I'm wondering what everyone else thinks about this too, particularly our gay community (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147829)
Are my friends right, and Blizzard should be ashamed/apologize for allowing this guy to "represent" them during the concert at Blizzcon?
Or was Blizzard without blame here, censoring his "speech" and using it only to incite some WoW faction passion for their concert?
i might get warned for a short post but 3 words for you..
This is *one* person having the courage to once again try to explain why this isn't just "offensive" speech, but is hurtful. Try having some empathy for those who's lives have had to suffer from this kind of speech.
If you don't like it, cover your ears and don't listen to it. You cannot censor comedy in the off chance that someone watching it gets offended. This was a joke interview with a death metal vocalist.
I see that asking for compassion is too much for some people.
This is *one* person having the courage to once again try to explain why this isn't just "offensive" speech, but is hurtful. Try having some empathy for those who's lives have had to suffer from this kind of speech.
People freagin out about what someone is saying without considering the context? Sounds like a bunch of uptight academics in universities, and crybaby sensitive types.
I really think that you could listen to any rant from Destiny on this subject, or his amateur debates about it, and you can understand that it's more important to take context into consideration when in a conversation.
Honestly, why are they taking what the lead singer of cannibal corpse says as some official offensive decree from blizzard. Did a blizzard employee say it? No, the lead singer of a very offensive radical band that's washed up and has a bro front-lining it said that.
This is *one* person having the courage to once again try to explain why this isn't just "offensive" speech, but is hurtful. Try having some empathy for those who's lives have had to suffer from this kind of speech.
If you don't like it, cover your ears and don't listen to it. You cannot censor comedy in the off chance that someone watching it gets offended. This was a joke interview with a death metal vocalist.
I see that asking for compassion is too much for some people.
If someone says something offensive to you, as an adult (which only adults should be watching blizzcon, and participating in it anyways, or kids with a supervising adult with them), if you go and kill yourself over it, then you have much bigger problems than the person saying things to you. If you really need the rest of the world to change just for you, then you ARE asking for too much.
This is not what the LBGT community needs, a bunch of people complaining about a comedic-themed interview by a washed up death metal singer. It definitely doesn't need to bring counter-hatred to Blizzard (the best video game company in the world).
On October 28 2011 10:44 Hyuzak wrote: He was obviously joking around and having fun, how anyone can take it seriously is beyond me.
The easiest way people excuse hateful language seeped in vitriol is by saying it's "just a joke". That not only tries to sidestep the issues being raised but also is an indirect way of saying "you're making a big deal out of nothing", effectively shutting down discussion.
I say it's just a joke, because it is. He's a dude from a metal band who is probably a little drunk talking about wow and obviously having fun, so stop being so anal in a non sexual situation.
thanks for the uncensored. i think the gay community is really overreacting, i'm fine with the LGBT community, but this was really just taking it out of the context. i have nothing against gays, but it just happens that sometimes i'll say things like "wow, that's gay" "lol u fag" without meaning to offend the LGBT community. of course, for something that was meant to be shown to the masses, blizzard really did a poor job with their choice of video and it's entirely blizzard's fault. i don't see any fault in the guy tbh, other than his poor choice of words (which might have intentional as a joke)
This is *one* person having the courage to once again try to explain why this isn't just "offensive" speech, but is hurtful. Try having some empathy for those who's lives have had to suffer from this kind of speech.
This link has zero relevance to Blizzcon.
The blogger specifically references Blizzard and links to the video in the first paragraph.
This is *one* person having the courage to once again try to explain why this isn't just "offensive" speech, but is hurtful. Try having some empathy for those who's lives have had to suffer from this kind of speech.
If you don't like it, cover your ears and don't listen to it. You cannot censor comedy in the off chance that someone watching it gets offended. This was a joke interview with a death metal vocalist.
I see that asking for compassion is too much for some people.
You've convinced me, I'll never insult anyone again in case people get the wrong idea!
Like if I call someone a dickhead, and then a bunch of guys get mad at me because they have penises and dick is a rude way of saying penis.
Sure it's not the CLOSEST comparison of what happened at Blizzcon, but it's not exactly that different.
For someone who had a life as was linked about that gay dude, yes that's awful. It's horrible and the other people in that story should rightfully be condemned. But that doesn't mean every use of words like faggot are instantly homophobic and totally directed at all gay people in the world.
People overreact and take things out of context. The reason people reply with "calm down, it's not supposed to be taken the way you're taking it" that so frustrates people is because there's no other rational reply. Do you want to be coddled from all offensive language used in any context ever? If he was specifically saying to someone who was gay "You're a faggot, you fucking queer faggot", then it would be bad and this kind of response would be appropriate. For what he said though? No the community response is entirely innapropriate.
If you dont know who Cannibal Corpse is , let me just say some anti-gay slurs is like the least of the worries. I understand that what he said is wrong. But Cannibal Corpse is one of the most brutal BRUTAL metal / grind core / hard bands ever. They are like I mean I dont even want to explain some of the lyrics. My point is this guy has NEVER acted like someone he isn't, he is very honest and doesn't cover up what he says in interviews or in real life. I am not justifying what he said at Blizzcon i am just saying Blizzard should know that he will not censor himself when he speaks. So I would blame blizzard more then him.
Wouldnt expect much from him I have seen there band live lol was brutal. Just saying
I believe that was in poor taste due to the swearing.
I personally am not offended by his slurs however some people may be which is fine. They should privately tell Blizzard that they do not appreciate this type of videos at events they enjoy.
On October 28 2011 10:44 Hyuzak wrote: He was obviously joking around and having fun, how anyone can take it seriously is beyond me.
The easiest way people excuse hateful language seeped in vitriol is by saying it's "just a joke". That not only tries to sidestep the issues being raised but also is an indirect way of saying "you're making a big deal out of nothing", effectively shutting down discussion.
I say it's just a joke, because it is. He's a dude from a metal band who is probably a little drunk talking about wow and obviously having fun, so stop being so anal in a non sexual situation.
When someone hangs out with you, do these sensitive types just dodge the possibility of ever offending each other left and right? How boring. I would be so bored in a world where freedom of speech is bullied away by lawsuits and special interest groups.
What's with all the sudden "Us gays are being prosecuted" lately? I know a few gay people that use the gay references as an insult regardless... + Show Spoiler [Seriously] +
On October 28 2011 10:29 Johnzee wrote: I went to BlizzCon last weekend and was in the crowd for the closing ceremony, featuring the now-named Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain opening up the show.
Anyone who was there or who was watching it on the livestream probably saw this segment from George 'Corpsegrinder' Fisher, from the death-metal band Cannibal Corpse, just before he made an appearance on stage as a guest performer:
*having trouble embedding video in the post, so links will have to do* + Show Spoiler +
So when I saw it, what he was saying really went one ear and out the other. They censored the crap out of him, I don't play WoW anymore, was never big on faction pride anyway, and furthermore I don't listen to metal so I didn't know who this guy was. All I know is that he showed up during L90ETC's concert to make a cameo performance. That was last Saturday.
Fast forward to today, when I found multiple posts on Facebook concerning Fisher's anti-Alliance rant. Some of my super-academic friends (two university professors concerned with history and gender studies, respectively) took some huge offense to this and were blaming Blizzard for basically promoting and condoning this guy (by letting him perform) who was using anti-gay slurs in this video they featured.
Interesting that I can't find anything on TL about it, maybe everyone's real chill or just didn't notice the situation. I'm unsure where I stand on this, and I'm wondering what everyone else thinks about this too, particularly our gay community (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147829)
Are my friends right, and Blizzard should be ashamed/apologize for allowing this guy to "represent" them during the concert at Blizzcon?
Or was Blizzard without blame here, censoring his "speech" and using it only to incite some WoW faction passion for their concert?
i might get warned for a short post but 3 words for you..
This is *one* person having the courage to once again try to explain why this isn't just "offensive" speech, but is hurtful. Try having some empathy for those who's lives have had to suffer from this kind of speech.
I sympathize with him as his life seems extremely harsh (even that is an understatement), but it really seems as if he is too attached to this word. There are various over weight kids who were teased and called "fat" their entire lives, but does that mean that we should not use the word "fat" to describe things? I realize that being gay and being fat are a little different, but in both cases I would say that the people offended are letting a word have too much influence over them. I also understand that the word may just bring back horrible memories, and I am sorry about that but at the end of the day the majority of people would never interpret anything that man said as homophobic. Is it asking too much for people to approach language as context based, instead of strict definition?
I don't care really I mean he wasn't directing it at anyone and what the fuck do you expect from a screaming death metal band called cannibal corpse? I really that's like asking Lady Gaga or Ricky Martin to go on about the sanctity of marriage or start spewing rhetoric that could be found on a conservative radio talk show.
Also he wasn't attacking gays or even gave his view on homosexuality. He probably for the most part was using the worse language he could think of to insult his mortal enemies. It's kind of like provoking a bull with red because it really pisses the bull off. Well WoW players really hate being called loser, pansy, gay, ect especially when fuck is thrown in there.
Also there and thousands of WoW jokes out there that go a long with this type of stuff. I mean everyone has heard about the guys that play girls, the flack people get for playing girls and the thousands of jokes about it.
This is *one* person having the courage to once again try to explain why this isn't just "offensive" speech, but is hurtful. Try having some empathy for those who's lives have had to suffer from this kind of speech.
This link has zero relevance to Blizzcon.
The blogger specifically references Blizzard and links to the video in the first paragraph.
Yes, he says he read a comment on a blog that was talking about a video that was played at Blizzcon. What's Blizzard supposed to apologize for, again?
Never forget who you are, for surely the world won’t. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you. – Tyrion Lannister
On that note, try not to be so fuckin sensitive k? And use it within it's context.
On October 28 2011 10:58 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Are some people so sheltered that this came across as being some overwhelming issue?
Many comedy skits are terribly racist, including against peoples that are already demonized by political agendas and propaganda, and no one makes the biggest issue ever out of stuff like that. :S
EDIT: And do WoW players still inherently hate people just for playing the opposite coalition? @_@
A woman was assaulted after the concert for wearing an alliance shirt
People takes things too seriously imo... Stop overeacting everytime uses slurs its not like he was trying to prove a point against homosexual.. The main point is that he wanted to express his pride playing horde in a game....
On October 28 2011 10:58 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Are some people so sheltered that this came across as being some overwhelming issue?
Many comedy skits are terribly racist, including against peoples that are already demonized by political agendas and propaganda, and no one makes the biggest issue ever out of stuff like that. :S
EDIT: And do WoW players still inherently hate people just for playing the opposite coalition? @_@
A woman was assaulted after the concert for wearing an alliance shirt
On October 28 2011 11:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Not this again
Anti-gay undeniably implies intent against gays, of which I see none.
Insulting to gays, maybe?
To the folks I work with in academia, it's a short step from "insulting" to "anti".
Could be they just don't understand the gamer mentality. I mean, here's this guy being passionate about a game to the point of profanity and what they perceive as homophobia and death threats. As gamers, we live with this every day and don't have two thoughts about it. It's just the nature of anonymity.
Still it doesn't mean shouldn't give a damn about what other people think. I don't agree with my fellows "thin skin" and hypersensitivity/political correctness, but if I just write this off as nothing (not see it from their perspective), I'm really no better than they are if they choose not to try and come at it from our perspective. Thus my language and manner about using these terms has changed.
TL;DR - writing this off as nothing is VERY tempting and may be correct, but it's not always correct. Still worth examining.
When the posters in this thread can't make the connection that "using the worse language he could think of to insult his mortal enemies" means using socially accepted homophobic and anti-gay slurs, I'm at a loss. You're too privileged and sheltered and you'll never understand the impact they have. It's bad enough that these slurs are accepted in the gamer and internet cultures, but now you're trying to tell real life people how they should feel about these slurs. This is simply impossible. You haven't lived it, you lack the empathy or compassion to try to understand it and most of all, you don't want to. There's no point in continuing.
This is *one* person having the courage to once again try to explain why this isn't just "offensive" speech, but is hurtful. Try having some empathy for those who's lives have had to suffer from this kind of speech.
I read through it, and I want to say that words will mean different things to everyone. we're a very metaphorical species and one word can conjure the harshest images to some, the same word will be absolutely meaningless to the other, because people live different lives and experience different stuff. If people and companies had to back off for every single one of Pavlov's dogs, then we wouldn't have much of a language to communicate with now would we?
the gaymer in that story, is unfortunately one of the outliers on the societal bell curve. For him the slurs thrown by the Cannibal Corpse singer have a much harsher impact, but he is just one person, where there are hundreds and thousands who do not share the same experience. Blizzard, nor the singer should be put under the gun. They meant no harm, and no harm was done, with the exception of a few.
he's right, that slurs do hurt, and that they should be used less. But you don't just strip somebodies vocabulary. it happens naturally, and generation-ally. You tell kids in school about the harm slurs can cause, and you tell them stories like the one told by the guy in the link. In time, I bet you'll see faggot take on the same kind of place as nigger. people will be shocked by it's use.
but it doesn't happen by campaigning against everyone who's said the slur, especially if they're from a time when it was the norm, they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks... you're not going to get any support if you're going nuts about something so harmless. He's a fucking death metal vocalist, being offensive is like his bread and butter.
On October 28 2011 10:58 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Are some people so sheltered that this came across as being some overwhelming issue?
Many comedy skits are terribly racist, including against peoples that are already demonized by political agendas and propaganda, and no one makes the biggest issue ever out of stuff like that. :S
EDIT: And do WoW players still inherently hate people just for playing the opposite coalition? @_@
A woman was assaulted after the concert for wearing an alliance shirt
So yes
Sadly
probably was assaulted because she was a woman lol, the alliance thing was most likely an excuse, we are talking about blizzcon right
people getting offended by this need to chill the fuck out. he was nerdraging about World of Warcraft, not specifically stating his overwhelming hatred for gay people(which he doesnt have). chill the fuck out
I've lost faith in this board. For months and months I've read fewer and fewer threads. Why? Because the quality is going down more and more. We all knew it would happen.
But now this. You are ignorant. You scan over a thread and think you know everything about it. You don't bother to think about OTHER PEOPLE or what their situation may be. No, this is not about the use of the words cocksucker or some such. Words are words, we can all agree. What this is about is alienating a group of people. Maybe it is because this is a majority Starcraft forum but the amount of ignorance displayed here is mind boggleing.
My beef is not with the word cocksucker. Not with the word gay. Not with the word faggot. My beef is for the frenzy these words, used in a certain manner can incite. It is NO secret that the horde outnumber the alliance. When you get some 25000 people together there starts to be a bit of a mob mentality. People scream and shout because others are screaming and shouting. When one person gets put on screen insulting the alliance with a stream of expletatives what do you think the rest of the horde-aligned people are going to do? Cheer, scream and insult, which is precisely what happened.
Now, at Blizzcon there is no separation by faction or game or anything like that for the people there. This means that peppered throughout the crowed were alliance only people. I imagine these people knew it was a joke. But imagine this, a girl sitting with a couple of friends, wearing a moonglade t-shirt, who plays a night elf main. All of a sudden the ENTIRE CROWD is cheering about hatred for the alliance and yelling insults. Knowing a little about mob mentality, I imagine she might get a little scared, since the crowd is predominently male. Not insulted because someone went on screen and acted immature. Scared. Scared that the frenzy created might get out of hand. Again, the crowd was predominently male, aged 18-25. That demographic isn't known for always keeping a level head.
THIS is the problem with what Blizzard did. They incited a frenzy with anti-alliance sentiments. This extends BEYOND the game. This is not "just a game" anymore. Now real people are feeling scared and alienated just for being there. Make no mistake, this is a real feeling. In atleast one case there was actual violence against a person simply for displaying alliance symbols:
I believe there was another incident as well, but I do not have that link off hand. I have also heard anecdotes of people displaying alliance affiliation having random insults and jeers directed towards them.
Ultimately, the above example was the fault of the two boys. But if Blizzard hadn't evoked such emotions with their video and cheering perhaps it would not have happened. Obviously the kids were running on adrenaline (I hope, I hate to think such delinquents are apart of our humble community). Perhaps if the frenzy weren't initiated they would have run around wooping about how awesome the foo fighters were instead.
The offense is not from the guy from the video. He was immature and it was a bit ridiculous. The offence is from the fact that Blizzard did not stop to consider what this might cause. The lack of empathy shown makes me sick. You people make me sick.
Cue the trolling, I have come to expect no less around here. #MartyrForTrolling.
On October 28 2011 11:54 ChiffonAngel wrote: When the posters in this thread can't make the connection that "using the worse language he could think of to insult his mortal enemies" means using socially accepted homophobic and anti-gay slurs, I'm at a loss. You're too privileged and sheltered and you'll never understand the impact they have. It's bad enough that these slurs are accepted in the gamer and internet cultures, but now you're trying to tell real life people how they should feel about these slurs. This is simply impossible. You haven't lived it, you lack the empathy or compassion to try to understand it and most of all, you don't want to. There's no point in continuing.
This is the most condescending post I have ever read in my entire sheltered life. Congratulations.
Now please explain why Blizzard should apologize because you decided to look up a Youtube video of a guy who was at Blizzcon.
His rant has absolutely nothing to do with gay people, he just uses the word fag as an insult, probably because it's used a lot as an insult in the elitist metal groups. You'll always find somebody who gets offended no matter what.
Seriously, this age of political correctness is getting retarded. people really need to grow a pair and realize they don't have a right to never be offended. You can clearly see the context in his words and its clearly nothing against homosexual people.
Anyone taking CORPSEGRINDER from joke death metal band CANNIBAL CORPSE seriously has to get their head out of their ass, they might as well go complain about dethklok, whose lyrics are even more offensive and even more a joke. I mean, when that video came out, he wasn't saying anything that any wow player wouldn't already be saying to eachother, except they would be saying it seriously, at least he was self-conscious enough to know how much of a joke the whole situation was - a sarcastic grin never left his face the whole 'interview'.
The only reason that blogger finds it offensive is because of traumatic past, what right does he have to tell other gay people how they should think when not many of them have the same reaction he does? Especially when we are talking about a fat troglodyte from the original joke death metal band? He really thinks anyone is taking him seriously? He should be targeting those hopefully few people who are taking him seriously (wow players as a whole aren't exactly the brightest bunch, and don't try to tell me otherwise, I used to be one of them).
I don't ever use homophobic slurs in any language I use, not even online (as a gamer this might mean I'm in the minority, but in reality I am just following the lead of most of western society) specifically because of the damage it can do, as the blogger tragically points out, but I can still find the humour in it's comedic use, in the same way people see the comedic value of other offensive or racist words.
I respect what that blogger is trying to do, in that hopefully it educates those out there who often use those terms as an insult on a regular basis, but this is comedy for god's sake, surely he could have some more legitimate targets to attack - I don't understand how getting the shit beaten through him by homophobic white trash relates to wow faction rivalry.
lol, thats actually pretty funny. He really hates the alliance it seems.
After his first outburst he even says: 'Im pathetic. When it comes to WoW Im a pathetic nerd!' I stopped caring about being offended after that.. People should stop being butthurt
Your academic friends focus their studies on gender. Their monetary well being is derived from an acute ability to notice polarizing events that involve gender. Honestly, from the best of my understanding a lot of gender studies work seems to be overwrought political theory that lacks quite a bit of common sense. Especially when the videos don't seem to be homophobic but rather using a common internet or even colloquial pejorative.
I have a touch of sympathy for you. I don't like it when people use the word gay to describe things and I don't use it because for that specific word I think it's harder to blur the line between how a group is treated in general american society and the intent of the word. Still I rather not get rounded up by the Gestapo if I call someone a c*cksucker on ladder.
I've lost faith in this board. For months and months I've read fewer and fewer threads. Why? Because the quality is going down more and more. We all knew it would happen.
But now this. You are ignorant. You scan over a thread and think you know everything about it. You don't bother to think about OTHER PEOPLE or what their situation may be. No, this is not about the use of the words cocksucker or some such. Words are words, we can all agree. What this is about is alienating a group of people. Maybe it is because this is a majority Starcraft forum but the amount of ignorance displayed here is mind boggleing.
My beef is not with the word cocksucker. Not with the word gay. Not with the word faggot. My beef is for the frenzy these words, used in a certain manner can incite. It is NO secret that the horde outnumber the alliance. When you get some 25000 people together there starts to be a bit of a mob mentality. People scream and shout because others are screaming and shouting. When one person gets put on screen insulting the alliance with a stream of expletatives what do you think the rest of the horde-aligned people are going to do? Cheer, scream and insult, which is precisely what happened.
Now, at Blizzcon there is no separation by faction or game or anything like that for the people there. This means that peppered throughout the crowed were alliance only people. I imagine these people knew it was a joke. But imagine this, a girl sitting with a couple of friends, wearing a moonglade t-shirt, who plays a night elf main. All of a sudden the ENTIRE CROWD is cheering about hatred for the alliance and yelling insults. Knowing a little about mob mentality, I imagine she might get a little scared, since the crowd is predominently male. Not insulted because someone went on screen and acted immature. Scared. Scared that the frenzy created might get out of hand. Again, the crowd was predominently male, aged 18-25. That demographic isn't known for always keeping a level head.
THIS is the problem with what Blizzard did. They incited a frenzy with anti-alliance sentiments. This extends BEYOND the game. This is not "just a game" anymore. Now real people are feeling scared and alienated just for being there. Make no mistake, this is a real feeling. In atleast one case there was actual violence against a person simply for displaying alliance symbols:
I believe there was another incident as well, but I do not have that link off hand. I have also heard anecdotes of people displaying alliance affiliation having random insults and jeers directed towards them.
Ultimately, the above example was the fault of the two boys. But if Blizzard hadn't evoked such emotions with their video and cheering perhaps it would not have happened. Obviously the kids were running on adrenaline (I hope, I hate to think such delinquents are apart of our humble community). Perhaps if the frenzy weren't initiated they would have run around wooping about how awesome the foo fighters were instead.
The offense is not from the guy from the video. He was immature and it was a bit ridiculous. The offence is from the fact that Blizzard did not stop to consider what this might cause. The lack of empathy shown makes me sick. You people make me sick.
Cue the trolling, I have come to expect no less around here. #MartyrForTrolling
I think you posted this in the wrong thread, seeing as the OP explicitly discussed his use of gay slurs and the rest of the thread has been simply adhering to that topic. Sorry if that makes you sick.
On October 28 2011 12:01 Brettatron wrote: I've lost faith in this board. For months and months I've read fewer and fewer threads. Why? Because the quality is going down more and more. We all knew it would happen.
But now this. You are ignorant. You scan over a thread and think you know everything about it. You don't bother to think about OTHER PEOPLE or what their situation may be. No, this is not about the use of the words cocksucker or some such. Words are words, we can all agree. What this is about is alienating a group of people. Maybe it is because this is a majority Starcraft forum but the amount of ignorance displayed here is mind boggleing.
My beef is not with the word cocksucker. Not with the word gay. Not with the word faggot. My beef is for the frenzy these words, used in a certain manner can incite. It is NO secret that the horde outnumber the alliance. When you get some 25000 people together there starts to be a bit of a mob mentality. People scream and shout because others are screaming and shouting. When one person gets put on screen insulting the alliance with a stream of expletatives what do you think the rest of the horde-aligned people are going to do? Cheer, scream and insult, which is precisely what happened.
Now, at Blizzcon there is no separation by faction or game or anything like that for the people there. This means that peppered throughout the crowed were alliance only people. I imagine these people knew it was a joke. But imagine this, a girl sitting with a couple of friends, wearing a moonglade t-shirt, who plays a night elf main. All of a sudden the ENTIRE CROWD is cheering about hatred for the alliance and yelling insults. Knowing a little about mob mentality, I imagine she might get a little scared, since the crowd is predominently male. Not insulted because someone went on screen and acted immature. Scared. Scared that the frenzy created might get out of hand. Again, the crowd was predominently male, aged 18-25. That demographic isn't known for always keeping a level head.
THIS is the problem with what Blizzard did. They incited a frenzy with anti-alliance sentiments. This extends BEYOND the game. This is not "just a game" anymore. Now real people are feeling scared and alienated just for being there. Make no mistake, this is a real feeling. In atleast one case there was actual violence against a person simply for displaying alliance symbols:
I believe there was another incident as well, but I do not have that link off hand. I have also heard anecdotes of people displaying alliance affiliation having random insults and jeers directed towards them.
Ultimately, the above example was the fault of the two boys. But if Blizzard hadn't evoked such emotions with their video and cheering perhaps it would not have happened. Obviously the kids were running on adrenaline (I hope, I hate to think such delinquents are apart of our humble community). Perhaps if the frenzy weren't initiated they would have run around wooping about how awesome the foo fighters were instead.
The offense is not from the guy from the video. He was immature and it was a bit ridiculous. The offence is from the fact that Blizzard did not stop to consider what this might cause. The lack of empathy shown makes me sick. You people make me sick.
Cue the trolling, I have come to expect no less around here. #MartyrForTrolling.
And conversely, my apparent dislike for this kind of reaction has nothing to do with offended sensibilities, practical concerns, or equality.
Rather, consider the alternative. You're advocating for something completely rediculous, that even more material that comes from blizzard is pre-santized by ridiculous suits working in corporate communications.
I think we can all agree Sam made a bad decision, because hes a freaking human being, not just another cog in a gigantic corporate meshwork. So while anger is an appropriate response, it would yield a lot of negative consequences, because its completely misdirected. Think about how blizzard used to communicate with its community in 99 and how it communicates with them in 2011, through a giant barrier of PR.
Do you want a more consolidated PR and corporate communication presence sanitizing everything at blizzard? Do you think thats collectively better for Starcraft 2 and Esports?. No, the only thing that's gonna do is kill what remains of human creativity left at blizz. just cuz Sam made a poor choice doesn't mean we should just eliminate it.
If you look at the responses in this thread, I have a feeling most of them aren't coming from a position of indifference at LGBT rights. Most of them are coming from a hope that this one mishap shouldn't affect how things are handled by blizzard on the long term, because most of them prefer actual humans making the decisions.
On October 28 2011 10:44 Hyuzak wrote: He was obviously joking around and having fun, how anyone can take it seriously is beyond me.
The easiest way people excuse hateful language seeped in vitriol is by saying it's "just a joke". That not only tries to sidestep the issues being raised but also is an indirect way of saying "you're making a big deal out of nothing", effectively shutting down discussion.
Right...but you ARE making a big deal out of nothing. That IS what hes saying....Why did you just point out the obvious?
I am against hate crimes, and anti-gay slander and such as much as the next person.
That being said, do we really need so many gay orientated topics on TL? I mean I swear there is a new one every day or so, or even multiple threads per day.
I dunno. Awareness and such is good, sure. But this is getting a little overboard with the PC everything mentality, not sure im such a fan of that.
On October 28 2011 12:01 Brettatron wrote: I've lost faith in this board. For months and months I've read fewer and fewer threads. Why? Because the quality is going down more and more. We all knew it would happen.
But now this. You are ignorant. You scan over a thread and think you know everything about it. You don't bother to think about OTHER PEOPLE or what their situation may be. No, this is not about the use of the words cocksucker or some such. Words are words, we can all agree. What this is about is alienating a group of people. Maybe it is because this is a majority Starcraft forum but the amount of ignorance displayed here is mind boggleing.
My beef is not with the word cocksucker. Not with the word gay. Not with the word faggot. My beef is for the frenzy these words, used in a certain manner can incite. It is NO secret that the horde outnumber the alliance. When you get some 25000 people together there starts to be a bit of a mob mentality. People scream and shout because others are screaming and shouting. When one person gets put on screen insulting the alliance with a stream of expletatives what do you think the rest of the horde-aligned people are going to do? Cheer, scream and insult, which is precisely what happened.
Now, at Blizzcon there is no separation by faction or game or anything like that for the people there. This means that peppered throughout the crowed were alliance only people. I imagine these people knew it was a joke. But imagine this, a girl sitting with a couple of friends, wearing a moonglade t-shirt, who plays a night elf main. All of a sudden the ENTIRE CROWD is cheering about hatred for the alliance and yelling insults. Knowing a little about mob mentality, I imagine she might get a little scared, since the crowd is predominently male. Not insulted because someone went on screen and acted immature. Scared. Scared that the frenzy created might get out of hand. Again, the crowd was predominently male, aged 18-25. That demographic isn't known for always keeping a level head.
THIS is the problem with what Blizzard did. They incited a frenzy with anti-alliance sentiments. This extends BEYOND the game. This is not "just a game" anymore. Now real people are feeling scared and alienated just for being there. Make no mistake, this is a real feeling. In atleast one case there was actual violence against a person simply for displaying alliance symbols:
I believe there was another incident as well, but I do not have that link off hand. I have also heard anecdotes of people displaying alliance affiliation having random insults and jeers directed towards them.
Ultimately, the above example was the fault of the two boys. But if Blizzard hadn't evoked such emotions with their video and cheering perhaps it would not have happened. Obviously the kids were running on adrenaline (I hope, I hate to think such delinquents are apart of our humble community). Perhaps if the frenzy weren't initiated they would have run around wooping about how awesome the foo fighters were instead.
The offense is not from the guy from the video. He was immature and it was a bit ridiculous. The offence is from the fact that Blizzard did not stop to consider what this might cause. The lack of empathy shown makes me sick. You people make me sick.
Cue the trolling, I have come to expect no less around here. #MartyrForTrolling.
And conversely, my apparently dislike for this kind of reaction has nothing to do with offended sensibilities, practical concerns, or equality.
Rather, consider the alternative. You're advocating for something completely rediculous, that even more material that comes from blizzard is pre-santized by ridiculous suits working in corporate communications.
I think we can all agree Sam made a bad decision, because hes a freaking human being, not just another cog in a gigantic corporate meshwork. So while anger is an appropriate response, it would yield a lot of negative consequences, because its completely misdirected. Think about how blizzard used to communicate with its community in 99 and how it communicates with them in 2011, through a giant barrier of PR.
Do you want a more consolidated PR and corporate communication presence sanitizing everything at blizzard? Do you think thats collectively better for the Starcraft and Esport. No, the only thing that's gonna do is kill what remains of human creativity left at blizz. just cuz Sam made a poor choice doesn't mean we should just eliminate it.
If you look at the responses in this thread, I have a feeling most of them aren't coming from a position of indifference at LGBT rights. Most of them are coming from a hope that this one mishap shouldn't affect how things are handled by blizzard on the long term, because most of them prefer actual humans making the decisions.
tl;dr
This is why we cannot have nice things ;_;.
I would not say that I am "advocating... that even more material that comes from blizzard is pre-santized by ridiculous suits working in corporate communications." I am simply hoping that blizzard will recognize what they did for what it is. That is, not apologize for the language, but for the fear and emotions it caused. Samwise is, and will continue to be, my favorite artist, not just within gaming. I empathize that he is human and made a mistake. I hope HE realizes that and the consequences of it and takes measures not to make it again.
Honestly, it only struck me as simple vulgarity, nothing more. I use "anti-gay" vulgarity all the time, but does it man I actually have a prejudice toward gay people? No, absolutely not. It, like many other slurs these days, has simply become another swear word, with no true malice behind it.
That is, not apologize for the language, but for the fear and emotions it caused.
But it's Corpsegrinder's job to cause fear.
Certainly (or maybe not, I don't know about them). However, if one wanted to be scared they could go to their show. This cameo was never announced and was unexpected. That is the difference between this and a Corpsegrinder show. Or a CK Lewis act. You EXPECT and PREPARE for that sort of things when you go to the shows. This was sprung upon us.
President of Blizzard Entertainment acknowledged the problem and had posted an apology at WoW forum :
Dear members of the Blizzard community,
I have read your feedback and comments about this year’s BlizzCon, and I have also read the feedback to the apology from Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain. I’d like to respond to some of your feedback here.
As president of Blizzard, I take full responsibility for everything that occurs at BlizzCon.
It was shortsighted and insensitive to use the video at all, even in censored form. The language used in the original version, including the slurs and use of sexual orientation as an insult, is not acceptable, period. We realize now that having even an edited version at the show was counter to the standards we try to maintain in our forums and in our games. Doing so was an error in judgment, and we regret it.
The bottom line is we deeply apologize for our mistakes and for hurting or offending anyone. We want you to have fun at our events, and we want everyone to feel welcome. We’re proud to be part of a huge and diverse community, and I am proud that so many aspects of the community are represented within Blizzard itself.
As a leader of Blizzard, and a member of the band, I truly hope you will accept my humblest apology.
On October 28 2011 12:22 Brettatron wrote: I am simply hoping that blizzard will recognize what they did for what it is. That is, not apologize for the language, but for the fear and emotions it caused.
we could use some more threads about gay descrimination on this forum, espcecially on such important topics as a kid getting beat up in some random school or some random metal man ranting on blizzcon. after all those are the biggest problems of todays world and i am OFFENDED and demand an apollogy from everyone.
Big deal, sensationalism at its finest. People still use terms such as nerdy, retarded, gay, white "Why you dress so white?", and so on. Homo as an overall term has come to mean feminine or weak when it comes to being used in the way that the guy linked in the OP's video used it. I'm all for gay rights and human equality but sensationalism will always exist sadly and this is sensationalism.
On October 28 2011 12:01 Brettatron wrote: I've lost faith in this board. For months and months I've read fewer and fewer threads. Why? Because the quality is going down more and more. We all knew it would happen.
But now this. You are ignorant. You scan over a thread and think you know everything about it. You don't bother to think about OTHER PEOPLE or what their situation may be. No, this is not about the use of the words cocksucker or some such. Words are words, we can all agree. What this is about is alienating a group of people. Maybe it is because this is a majority Starcraft forum but the amount of ignorance displayed here is mind boggleing.
My beef is not with the word cocksucker. Not with the word gay. Not with the word faggot. My beef is for the frenzy these words, used in a certain manner can incite. It is NO secret that the horde outnumber the alliance. When you get some 25000 people together there starts to be a bit of a mob mentality. People scream and shout because others are screaming and shouting. When one person gets put on screen insulting the alliance with a stream of expletatives what do you think the rest of the horde-aligned people are going to do? Cheer, scream and insult, which is precisely what happened.
Now, at Blizzcon there is no separation by faction or game or anything like that for the people there. This means that peppered throughout the crowed were alliance only people. I imagine these people knew it was a joke. But imagine this, a girl sitting with a couple of friends, wearing a moonglade t-shirt, who plays a night elf main. All of a sudden the ENTIRE CROWD is cheering about hatred for the alliance and yelling insults. Knowing a little about mob mentality, I imagine she might get a little scared, since the crowd is predominently male. Not insulted because someone went on screen and acted immature. Scared. Scared that the frenzy created might get out of hand. Again, the crowd was predominently male, aged 18-25. That demographic isn't known for always keeping a level head.
THIS is the problem with what Blizzard did. They incited a frenzy with anti-alliance sentiments. This extends BEYOND the game. This is not "just a game" anymore. Now real people are feeling scared and alienated just for being there. Make no mistake, this is a real feeling. In atleast one case there was actual violence against a person simply for displaying alliance symbols:
I believe there was another incident as well, but I do not have that link off hand. I have also heard anecdotes of people displaying alliance affiliation having random insults and jeers directed towards them.
Ultimately, the above example was the fault of the two boys. But if Blizzard hadn't evoked such emotions with their video and cheering perhaps it would not have happened. Obviously the kids were running on adrenaline (I hope, I hate to think such delinquents are apart of our humble community). Perhaps if the frenzy weren't initiated they would have run around wooping about how awesome the foo fighters were instead.
The offense is not from the guy from the video. He was immature and it was a bit ridiculous. The offence is from the fact that Blizzard did not stop to consider what this might cause. The lack of empathy shown makes me sick. You people make me sick.
Cue the trolling, I have come to expect no less around here. #MartyrForTrolling.
My thoughts exactly. The man in the video basically started an uproar from one group of people against another by being aggressively and passionately for the horde and against the alliance. It doesn't matter that it's a video game which causes these distinctions between people, the brutish, emotional call uniting any group of people for one cause incites a mob. The enthusiasm the horde player's manifesto incited literally makes the crowd more primitive, more violent and less socially responsible. They lose their ability to judge the ethical implications of their actions and the potential for chaos occurs. It was a dangerous scenario which should be avoided at all costs. Even though nothing serious went down, the uneasiness and fear that the horde mob probably caused in the alliance players there is simply unacceptable, everyone there should have been able to feel safe and comfortable in their environment.
On October 28 2011 12:22 Brettatron wrote: I am simply hoping that blizzard will recognize what they did for what it is. That is, not apologize for the language, but for the fear and emotions it caused.
uh...wish granted :p
Apparently! It seems like a sincere apology indeed. By stating that he wants "everyone to feel welcome" I think he understands, or atleast has a idea of, what the actual problem is. Now its just the trolls on these boards I have to direct my anger at. Which might be more infuriating anyways.
pretty much sums up my view of this entire incident. seriously calm down, he wasn't being anti-gay, he was just being rude.
I'm bisexual and this is pretty much my view on it aswell. It bothers me a lot more when people nag on and on about if something is politically correct or not.
Stop being so fucking afraid about what's "Okay" to say and just say what's on your mind (with some moderation ofc).
Hell, I often say fittneger (swedish for cunt-nigger) when I get frustrated.
It has brought me some rather strange looks sure, but it's just words of frustration it dosent mean I suddenly spotted a strange afroamerican-womb abomination somwhere nor that I am racist, sexist or anything of the sort.
On October 28 2011 10:44 Hyuzak wrote: He was obviously joking around and having fun, how anyone can take it seriously is beyond me.
The easiest way people excuse hateful language seeped in vitriol is by saying it's "just a joke". That not only tries to sidestep the issues being raised but also is an indirect way of saying "you're making a big deal out of nothing", effectively shutting down discussion.
It is the case though, everyday some people try to push the world to be more unnecessarily olitically correct, it keeps going and going and going and it seems just beyond stupid to me, as to where we can't make jokes for the sake of a joke without someone screaming about it.People take this world way too seriously at times.
from what im reading in this thread this seems to me like another case of people who aren't even part of the minority group getting offended for others.
Like, i dunno, i get the feeling most people who are acting out against this apparent comical rant aren't even the ones who are gay. Things like that happen so much. People getting offended and upset when they weren't even the target. Oh noes, he said something bad. Oh well. If it was an obvious joke then seriously let it go and move on. More important things in every ones lives are going on than 1 guy who said something not politically correct at blizzcon. :-/
ppl joke around, even with offensive language. Its just what happens. There is a line you shouldnt cross, and a rant about alliance and using offensive terms is not really crossing that line unless he is dead serious about hating gays. I mean, common. Anyone seen the south park episode called The F word? Yeah, times change.
Also if your upset that they were insulting the alliance and might have offended or scared some alliance only wow players well honestly, thats just something that happens in humanity. You cant get away from it anywhere. Sure shouting insults about a certain faction is a video game at a place like that can be "wrong." and sure people probably did cross the line in that case. If anything that should be a security at the functions job to control, but it happens with everything. A starting band gets on stage and most of the crowd doesnt like them.... They get spit on and yelled at. It happens everywhere. Is it the cool thing to do? no. Can you really blame blizzard? not really.. its hard to control that many people. People are assholes. i still dont see why theres any reason to rage at blizzard about it. Meh.
On October 28 2011 10:52 jester- wrote: First world problems.
Was not offended and realized the comedy... Sometimes it's better to just take things with a grain of salt and relax.
quoted for fucking truth. People always have to get offended about something right? If people aren't whining about something they will find something. On a serious note, cmon guys. If you get that upset over Corpsegrinder using some naughty words then I think a nap and some time away from the internet is good for you. Also,juice boxes.
On October 28 2011 10:29 Johnzee wrote: I went to BlizzCon last weekend and was in the crowd for the closing ceremony, featuring the now-named Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain opening up the show.
Anyone who was there or who was watching it on the livestream probably saw this segment from George 'Corpsegrinder' Fisher, from the death-metal band Cannibal Corpse, just before he made an appearance on stage as a guest performer:
*having trouble embedding video in the post, so links will have to do* + Show Spoiler +
So when I saw it, what he was saying really went one ear and out the other. They censored the crap out of him, I don't play WoW anymore, was never big on faction pride anyway, and furthermore I don't listen to metal so I didn't know who this guy was. All I know is that he showed up during L90ETC's concert to make a cameo performance. That was last Saturday.
Fast forward to today, when I found multiple posts on Facebook concerning Fisher's anti-Alliance rant. Some of my super-academic friends (two university professors concerned with history and gender studies, respectively) took some huge offense to this and were blaming Blizzard for basically promoting and condoning this guy (by letting him perform) who was using anti-gay slurs in this video they featured.
Interesting that I can't find anything on TL about it, maybe everyone's real chill or just didn't notice the situation. I'm unsure where I stand on this, and I'm wondering what everyone else thinks about this too, particularly our gay community (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147829)
Are my friends right, and Blizzard should be ashamed/apologize for allowing this guy to "represent" them during the concert at Blizzcon?
Or was Blizzard without blame here, censoring his "speech" and using it only to incite some WoW faction passion for their concert?
Your two friends are lame bro.
Even if it was a slur so what I never understand why people can be so much more offended when insulted about their race/sexual orientation, while completely ignoring being called an asshole or a dickhead etc. People need to get off their politically correct highhorses and realize an insult is an insult, its meant to hurt, and using a slur doesn't necessarily make you a racist/homophobe.
After reading this thread, I'm glad TL still has a sense of humor. I mean you have to take a break from the perpetual moral indignation at some point.
In grown up world you don't run to your parents and tattle when someone says something you don't like. I know that urge can be hard to extricate if you've been sheltered. Spend a couple more years on the less moderated sections of the internet and hopefully your skin will be thick as leather. We could ALL use some thicker skin.
In the meantime I guess go on the internet and complain.
I think the biggest issue is where do we, as the community, draw the line on this sort of speech? When is it not okay because he's famous, or in a deathmetal band, or joking, or worked up in the moment? Where do we say 'no, it's not okay for you to shout this at a crowd of 25,000 of us? If it's not calling a portion of the crowd 'emo cocksuckers', maybe I'm not sure I really want to know where the line is. It seems a little vile.
On October 28 2011 10:29 Johnzee wrote: I went to BlizzCon last weekend and was in the crowd for the closing ceremony, featuring the now-named Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain opening up the show.
Anyone who was there or who was watching it on the livestream probably saw this segment from George 'Corpsegrinder' Fisher, from the death-metal band Cannibal Corpse, just before he made an appearance on stage as a guest performer:
*having trouble embedding video in the post, so links will have to do* + Show Spoiler +
So when I saw it, what he was saying really went one ear and out the other. They censored the crap out of him, I don't play WoW anymore, was never big on faction pride anyway, and furthermore I don't listen to metal so I didn't know who this guy was. All I know is that he showed up during L90ETC's concert to make a cameo performance. That was last Saturday.
Fast forward to today, when I found multiple posts on Facebook concerning Fisher's anti-Alliance rant. Some of my super-academic friends (two university professors concerned with history and gender studies, respectively) took some huge offense to this and were blaming Blizzard for basically promoting and condoning this guy (by letting him perform) who was using anti-gay slurs in this video they featured.
Interesting that I can't find anything on TL about it, maybe everyone's real chill or just didn't notice the situation. I'm unsure where I stand on this, and I'm wondering what everyone else thinks about this too, particularly our gay community (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147829)
Are my friends right, and Blizzard should be ashamed/apologize for allowing this guy to "represent" them during the concert at Blizzcon?
Or was Blizzard without blame here, censoring his "speech" and using it only to incite some WoW faction passion for their concert?
Your two friends are lame bro.
Even if it was a slur so what I never understand why people can be so much more offended when insulted about their race/sexual orientation, while completely ignoring being called an asshole or a dickhead etc. People need to get off their politically correct highhorses and realize an insult is an insult, its meant to hurt, and using a slur doesn't necessarily make you a racist/homophobe.
Pretty much this. The guy in the video is obviously just a rude idiot. I don't know how anyone could be offended by it or even care what comes out of his mouth. And what the hell are gender studies? Feminism and stuff? I really hate it how suddenly every single chapter in Giddens' textbook has a section dedicated to women's point of view etc.
I have nothing against feminism, gays, equality and all that but I do in fact have a lot against paranoia and going overboard with such things.
Edit: I think that this thread needs more Morgan Freeman.
This is kind of low-hanging fruit. I mean, it's objectively wrong, but it's also relatively innocuous and basically pointless to get outraged over the actions of the singer of a band whose schtick is being offensive. Kids getting bullied every day in just about every school in America for being gay, or even the widespread, careless use of the word 'faggot' in 'gaming culture', are things that actually deserve attention and examination.
I mean, maybe there are some gay people out there who are way too emotionally invested in video games, and this particular (relatively minor) instance of homophobia in their favorite MMORPG is just too much to bear. I guess that I can understand that, and Blizzard should apologize. But in a society filled with injustices against gays, making a big issue out of insignificant things like this trivializes real, important problems.
These grown up words and these hurtful comments are too hard for me to take in. I prefer not to listen to these things when I voluntarily view media or attend a concert. I should voice my outrage at the corporation that has distributed and or enabled this to happen. Hopefully my efforts will stop this type of freedom from being exercised in the future. This should not be allowed.
I also have a bone to pick with Dradels. First of all, I don't have a kiln so I can't actually make one out of clay. I'm also not Jewish. At the very least, I felt like a phony when I sang that song back at holiday parties in Elementary school. I think I'm going to pass a movement to have that banned. But if I do that, what about the Jewish kids singing Christmas carols? Eh, I celebrate Christmas so I'm not about to let those Jewish folks try to ruin my holiday cheer..
Holiday..
I know! Let's just call it Holiday season, instead of anything that might upset anyone who is fond of any particular celebration.
On October 28 2011 12:01 Brettatron wrote: I've lost faith in this board. For months and months I've read fewer and fewer threads. Why? Because the quality is going down more and more. We all knew it would happen.
But now this. You are ignorant. You scan over a thread and think you know everything about it. You don't bother to think about OTHER PEOPLE or what their situation may be. No, this is not about the use of the words cocksucker or some such. Words are words, we can all agree. What this is about is alienating a group of people. Maybe it is because this is a majority Starcraft forum but the amount of ignorance displayed here is mind boggleing.
My beef is not with the word cocksucker. Not with the word gay. Not with the word faggot. My beef is for the frenzy these words, used in a certain manner can incite. It is NO secret that the horde outnumber the alliance. When you get some 25000 people together there starts to be a bit of a mob mentality. People scream and shout because others are screaming and shouting. When one person gets put on screen insulting the alliance with a stream of expletatives what do you think the rest of the horde-aligned people are going to do? Cheer, scream and insult, which is precisely what happened.
Now, at Blizzcon there is no separation by faction or game or anything like that for the people there. This means that peppered throughout the crowed were alliance only people. I imagine these people knew it was a joke. But imagine this, a girl sitting with a couple of friends, wearing a moonglade t-shirt, who plays a night elf main. All of a sudden the ENTIRE CROWD is cheering about hatred for the alliance and yelling insults. Knowing a little about mob mentality, I imagine she might get a little scared, since the crowd is predominently male. Not insulted because someone went on screen and acted immature. Scared. Scared that the frenzy created might get out of hand. Again, the crowd was predominently male, aged 18-25. That demographic isn't known for always keeping a level head.
THIS is the problem with what Blizzard did. They incited a frenzy with anti-alliance sentiments. This extends BEYOND the game. This is not "just a game" anymore. Now real people are feeling scared and alienated just for being there. Make no mistake, this is a real feeling. In atleast one case there was actual violence against a person simply for displaying alliance symbols:
I believe there was another incident as well, but I do not have that link off hand. I have also heard anecdotes of people displaying alliance affiliation having random insults and jeers directed towards them.
Ultimately, the above example was the fault of the two boys. But if Blizzard hadn't evoked such emotions with their video and cheering perhaps it would not have happened. Obviously the kids were running on adrenaline (I hope, I hate to think such delinquents are apart of our humble community). Perhaps if the frenzy weren't initiated they would have run around wooping about how awesome the foo fighters were instead.
The offense is not from the guy from the video. He was immature and it was a bit ridiculous. The offence is from the fact that Blizzard did not stop to consider what this might cause. The lack of empathy shown makes me sick. You people make me sick.
Cue the trolling, I have come to expect no less around here. #MartyrForTrolling.
My thoughts exactly. The man in the video basically started an uproar from one group of people against another by being aggressively and passionately for the horde and against the alliance. It doesn't matter that it's a video game which causes these distinctions between people, the brutish, emotional call uniting any group of people for one cause incites a mob. The enthusiasm the horde player's manifesto incited literally makes the crowd more primitive, more violent and less socially responsible. They lose their ability to judge the ethical implications of their actions and the potential for chaos occurs. It was a dangerous scenario which should be avoided at all costs. Even though nothing serious went down, the uneasiness and fear that the horde mob probably caused in the alliance players there is simply unacceptable, everyone there should have been able to feel safe and comfortable in their environment.
I'm guessing by "the uneasiness and fear that the horde mob probably caused in the alliance players" that you probably weren't there. I was, and back when I played WoW (left just before Cata was released) I was Alliance. There was no fear in that room, the atmosphere was electric, excited, and fun... that's about it. Having an anti-Alliance band on the stage was what finally made me cheer and show some faction pride, and anyone there will tell you that after that video, the Alliance cheers were even louder than before.
Point being, it wasn't this fear filled/nearly rioting mass of angry people, it was a bunch of nerds cheering for their faction (on both sides). This wasn't a protest, or a hate speech, or anywhere near a 'dangerous situation.' It was a damn nerd convention where 26,000 people got together to support the games/company we love. It wasn't a divisive convention... quite the opposite! Seeing the passion everyone had for their respective games/factions/races/etc made my buddy who went with me pick up WoW again.
On October 28 2011 10:50 ahx wrote: Cannibal Corpse has been protested by every group imaginable, including gay rights.. he doesn't hate gay people and taking this seriously is the real joke here.
exactly, I'm surprised they protested that instead of some of the things that have been written in cannibal corpse songs, all of which are infinitely more foul and offensive than any of the gay slurs he used in his alliance rant.
Sounds like he was joking, I mean who smile and laugh while ranting. People making something out of nothing PC as usual. BTW I don't recommend Destiny's stream or pretty much anyone else stream to anyone who found that offensive cause that word comes out all the time.
On October 28 2011 12:01 Brettatron wrote: I've lost faith in this board. For months and months I've read fewer and fewer threads. Why? Because the quality is going down more and more. We all knew it would happen.
But now this. You are ignorant. You scan over a thread and think you know everything about it. You don't bother to think about OTHER PEOPLE or what their situation may be. No, this is not about the use of the words cocksucker or some such. Words are words, we can all agree. What this is about is alienating a group of people. Maybe it is because this is a majority Starcraft forum but the amount of ignorance displayed here is mind boggleing.
My beef is not with the word cocksucker. Not with the word gay. Not with the word faggot. My beef is for the frenzy these words, used in a certain manner can incite. It is NO secret that the horde outnumber the alliance. When you get some 25000 people together there starts to be a bit of a mob mentality. People scream and shout because others are screaming and shouting. When one person gets put on screen insulting the alliance with a stream of expletatives what do you think the rest of the horde-aligned people are going to do? Cheer, scream and insult, which is precisely what happened.
Now, at Blizzcon there is no separation by faction or game or anything like that for the people there. This means that peppered throughout the crowed were alliance only people. I imagine these people knew it was a joke. But imagine this, a girl sitting with a couple of friends, wearing a moonglade t-shirt, who plays a night elf main. All of a sudden the ENTIRE CROWD is cheering about hatred for the alliance and yelling insults. Knowing a little about mob mentality, I imagine she might get a little scared, since the crowd is predominently male. Not insulted because someone went on screen and acted immature. Scared. Scared that the frenzy created might get out of hand. Again, the crowd was predominently male, aged 18-25. That demographic isn't known for always keeping a level head.
THIS is the problem with what Blizzard did. They incited a frenzy with anti-alliance sentiments. This extends BEYOND the game. This is not "just a game" anymore. Now real people are feeling scared and alienated just for being there. Make no mistake, this is a real feeling. In atleast one case there was actual violence against a person simply for displaying alliance symbols:
I believe there was another incident as well, but I do not have that link off hand. I have also heard anecdotes of people displaying alliance affiliation having random insults and jeers directed towards them.
Ultimately, the above example was the fault of the two boys. But if Blizzard hadn't evoked such emotions with their video and cheering perhaps it would not have happened. Obviously the kids were running on adrenaline (I hope, I hate to think such delinquents are apart of our humble community). Perhaps if the frenzy weren't initiated they would have run around wooping about how awesome the foo fighters were instead.
The offense is not from the guy from the video. He was immature and it was a bit ridiculous. The offence is from the fact that Blizzard did not stop to consider what this might cause. The lack of empathy shown makes me sick. You people make me sick.
Cue the trolling, I have come to expect no less around here. #MartyrForTrolling.
My thoughts exactly. The man in the video basically started an uproar from one group of people against another by being aggressively and passionately for the horde and against the alliance. It doesn't matter that it's a video game which causes these distinctions between people, the brutish, emotional call uniting any group of people for one cause incites a mob. The enthusiasm the horde player's manifesto incited literally makes the crowd more primitive, more violent and less socially responsible. They lose their ability to judge the ethical implications of their actions and the potential for chaos occurs. It was a dangerous scenario which should be avoided at all costs. Even though nothing serious went down, the uneasiness and fear that the horde mob probably caused in the alliance players there is simply unacceptable, everyone there should have been able to feel safe and comfortable in their environment.
I'm guessing by "the uneasiness and fear that the horde mob probably caused in the alliance players" that you probably weren't there. I was, and back when I played WoW (left just before Cata was released) I was Alliance. There was no fear in that room, the atmosphere was electric, excited, and fun... that's about it. Having an anti-Alliance band on the stage was what finally made me cheer and show some faction pride, and anyone there will tell you that after that video, the Alliance cheers were even louder than before.
Point being, it wasn't this fear filled/nearly rioting mass of angry people, it was a bunch of nerds cheering for their faction (on both sides). This wasn't a protest, or a hate speech, or anywhere near a 'dangerous situation.' It was a damn nerd convention where 26,000 people got together to support the games/company we love. It wasn't a divisive convention... quite the opposite! Seeing the passion everyone had for their respective games/factions/races/etc made my buddy who went with me pick up WoW again.
I was, in fact, there. And I don't expect that the majority did feel any fear. I didn't, I'm a 20 something male who has been in his share of scraps. But its that lack of empathy, and not realizing not everyone is that iritates me. Refer back to my original post and try to put yourself in those situations. It's not hard to think that someone might have felt uncomfortable after some 15000 people just cheered when a guy on screen called you a cocksucker. Wheres it going next? "Rape the alliance"? More cheers (lets not kid ourselves, we all accept rape as a usable word, despite the many protests against it. Its not hard to conceive of hearing this). Then instead of just assaulting some woman wearing a Night Elf shirt walking back from the convention centre she gets raped. Consideration for the audience is key.
On October 28 2011 13:22 Brettatron wrote: It's not hard to think that someone might have felt uncomfortable after some 15000 people just cheered when a guy on screen called you a cocksucker.
Except that the guy on stage didn't call any individual a cocksucker. He called an entire group of people cocksuckers. Also, given that we're all equipped with brains that work to some acceptable degree (hopefully), everyone can think, "well, I don't really remember having a cock in my mouth.." and move on with their lives.
I think your point of view is applicable if there is a developmentally challenged individual in the crowd who believes that 15000 people were cheering because HE sucked some cocks recently.
On October 28 2011 13:22 Brettatron wrote: It's not hard to think that someone might have felt uncomfortable after some 15000 people just cheered when a guy on screen called you a cocksucker.
Except that the guy on stage didn't call any individual a cocksucker. He called an entire group of people cocksuckers. Also, given that we're all equipped with brains that work to some acceptable degree (hopefully), everyone can think, "well, I don't really remember having a cock in my mouth.." and move on with their lives.
I think your point of view is applicable if there is a developmentally challenged individual in the crowd who believes that, out of 15000 people were cheering because HE sucked some cocks recently.
This is why I don't post ;\
edited for clarity
You are forgetting the fact that there was far more horde than alliance. Yes, he called the group of people cocksuckers. No, no one actually thinks they sucked cock. You are missing the point again. That one smaller alliance person surrounded by a screaming horde players isnt afraid because he (or she) thinks he sucked cock and they will punish him for it. It is fear that they are on the minority side and that the majority is in a frenzy against them.
On October 28 2011 13:22 Brettatron wrote: It's not hard to think that someone might have felt uncomfortable after some 15000 people just cheered when a guy on screen called you a cocksucker.
Except that the guy on stage didn't call any individual a cocksucker. He called an entire group of people cocksuckers.
...Right, which is to say it's alright if you call all members of a group a slur of some sort, it's okay, because it's not on a personal, case by case basis?
On October 28 2011 13:09 Alpino wrote: As a Cannibal Corpse fan I can attest that Corpsegrinder said all in good fun, don't take it seriously.
Exactly.
I'm sure he didn't mean to offend anyone he was just messing around. He's such a nice fella I had the honor of getting his autograph twice. First time was at burger king after a vancouver show, he was quite the funny guy.
it's not like he said anything on stage, what he said was in the video, which was from 3 years ago and had nothing to do with blizzard other than someone asking him about what he thinks of world of warcraft, in which he responded with the hilarious 3 minutes about how he hates gnomes. cant beleive people making a big deal out of this
I was going to ask you if you're serious.. But I think that you're being serious.
I was not there so I can't really comment on whether or not someone might've gotten scared in the crowd. Maybe some people did get scared. Hell, you know what, you're probably right. I think that those people have learned not to expose themselves to such a situation in the future. Nobody died, right?
Do you suppose that there should be a disclaimer or a sign at the entrance to this general area that says "People may become excited and cheer. If this alarms you, please stay to the outer perimeter where you can exit the premises if deemed necessary"
I don't think it's okay to dumb down events so that the feeble minded individuals feel safe. I think I should excuse myself from this discussion though. I took the training wheels off my bike pretty early in life. Also, I'd crush any individual member of the Alliance whom I saw trembling in fear or standing in a puddle of urine.
On October 28 2011 13:39 BoX wrote: I was going to ask you if you're serious.. But I think that you're being serious.
I was not there so I can't really comment on whether or not someone might've gotten scared in the crowd. Maybe some people did get scared. Hell, you know what, you're probably right. I think that those people have learned not to expose themselves to such a situation in the future. Nobody died, right?
Do you suppose that there should be a disclaimer or a sign at the entrance to this general area that says "People may become excited and cheer. If this alarms you, please stay to the outer perimeter where you can exit the premises if deemed necessary"
I don't think it's okay to dumb down events so that the feeble minded individuals feel safe. I think I should excuse myself from this discussion though. I took the training wheels off my bike pretty early in life. Also, I'd crush any individual member of the Alliance whom I saw trembling in fear or standing in a puddle of urine.
A woman was assaulted. Does she have to die before you see the problem?
On October 28 2011 13:40 Carthac wrote: At blizzcon, there was no one in the audience that took that as him being homophobic, he just really dislikes the Alliance in WoW.
Some people just being butt hurt, basically they just pick out stuff out of context and ignore the rest.
It's like saying "omg, i'd be gay for him" as if imply that they'd be abnormal for someone, and that must be anti-gay. Yea it's very far stretched and it's exactly what this story about.
On October 28 2011 13:35 McKTenor13 wrote: Stop being offended by things. Seriously it creates more problems than if people just let it be
This... This makes me very very sad to see. Very sad. =(
Ponder a moment on the implications of this please.
I guess I should've worded it better, but this is being blown way out of proportion. He was ripping on the Alliance. Not gay people. I have gay friends, I support them, and they would be sad to see people freaking out about this and would agree with me. People really need to stop hearing the word homo or gay once and immediately think they are making fun of gay people. It's sad =/
On October 28 2011 13:39 BoX wrote: I was going to ask you if you're serious.. But I think that you're being serious.
I was not there so I can't really comment on whether or not someone might've gotten scared in the crowd. Maybe some people did get scared. Hell, you know what, you're probably right. I think that those people have learned not to expose themselves to such a situation in the future. Nobody died, right?
Do you suppose that there should be a disclaimer or a sign at the entrance to this general area that says "People may become excited and cheer. If this alarms you, please stay to the outer perimeter where you can exit the premises if deemed necessary"
I don't think it's okay to dumb down events so that the feeble minded individuals feel safe. I think I should excuse myself from this discussion though. I took the training wheels off my bike pretty early in life. Also, I'd crush any individual member of the Alliance whom I saw trembling in fear or standing in a puddle of urine.
A woman was assaulted. Does she have to die before you see the problem?
The problem is (if that happened, I've only seen the forum post as evidence... and we all know how reliable forums are) that two guys were being assholes. It's a crime, literally, and they should be punished accordingly but in no way do I see that as being the fault of Blizzard, L90ETC, or that other guy (Corpsegrinder?).
You said you were there, do you deny that the Alliance was cheering even louder after all that? The video did what it was supposed to do, got the fans excited to show pride in the their faction and game.
On October 28 2011 13:35 McKTenor13 wrote: Stop being offended by things. Seriously it creates more problems than if people just let it be
This... This makes me very very sad to see. Very sad. =(
Ponder a moment on the implications of this please.
I guess I should've worded it better, but this is being blown way out of proportion. He was ripping on the Alliance. Not gay people. I have gay friends, I support them, and they would be sad to see people freaking out about this and would agree with me. People really need to stop hearing the word homo or gay once and immediately think they are making fun of gay people. It's sad =/
I invite you to read my original post. I believe it was the second one of page 5. I agree, he was ripping on the alliance. The big problem here isn't his verbage.
On October 28 2011 13:35 McKTenor13 wrote: Stop being offended by things. Seriously it creates more problems than if people just let it be
This... This makes me very very sad to see. Very sad. =(
Ponder a moment on the implications of this please.
it makes me very sad that people cant take a joke :/ and that my freedom of speech is hindering because people get offended about shit that isnt aimed at insulting or harming them. =(
On October 28 2011 13:22 Brettatron wrote: It's not hard to think that someone might have felt uncomfortable after some 15000 people just cheered when a guy on screen called you a cocksucker.
Except that the guy on stage didn't call any individual a cocksucker. He called an entire group of people cocksuckers.
...Right, which is to say it's alright if you call all members of a group a slur of some sort, it's okay, because it's not on a personal, case by case basis?
comedians do it all the time and people pay to see them do it live and then laugh and have a good time.
imagine if the situation did not involve the issue of homosexuality. would you have this same reaction if the thread was titled "Anti-alliance slurs at Blizzcon?" would you be outraged that a Horde player insulted all Alliance players?
No one with the slightest common sense or a fraction of humour would get offended by that, I feel that the OP title was misleading as there was nothing homophobic about what he said, he was just passionately joking about which side he played his video game on.
not worth such a debate imo, after reading the b.net thread tho, its a little concerning about some of the things that were said about alliance hate elsewhere, but its a WoW issue, not an sc2 issue. just hope they can work that issue out themselves, and quickly
On October 28 2011 12:01 Brettatron wrote: I've lost faith in this board. For months and months I've read fewer and fewer threads. Why? Because the quality is going down more and more. We all knew it would happen.
But now this. You are ignorant. You scan over a thread and think you know everything about it. You don't bother to think about OTHER PEOPLE or what their situation may be. No, this is not about the use of the words cocksucker or some such. Words are words, we can all agree. What this is about is alienating a group of people. Maybe it is because this is a majority Starcraft forum but the amount of ignorance displayed here is mind boggleing.
My beef is not with the word cocksucker. Not with the word gay. Not with the word faggot. My beef is for the frenzy these words, used in a certain manner can incite. It is NO secret that the horde outnumber the alliance. When you get some 25000 people together there starts to be a bit of a mob mentality. People scream and shout because others are screaming and shouting. When one person gets put on screen insulting the alliance with a stream of expletatives what do you think the rest of the horde-aligned people are going to do? Cheer, scream and insult, which is precisely what happened.
Now, at Blizzcon there is no separation by faction or game or anything like that for the people there. This means that peppered throughout the crowed were alliance only people. I imagine these people knew it was a joke. But imagine this, a girl sitting with a couple of friends, wearing a moonglade t-shirt, who plays a night elf main. All of a sudden the ENTIRE CROWD is cheering about hatred for the alliance and yelling insults. Knowing a little about mob mentality, I imagine she might get a little scared, since the crowd is predominently male. Not insulted because someone went on screen and acted immature. Scared. Scared that the frenzy created might get out of hand. Again, the crowd was predominently male, aged 18-25. That demographic isn't known for always keeping a level head.
THIS is the problem with what Blizzard did. They incited a frenzy with anti-alliance sentiments. This extends BEYOND the game. This is not "just a game" anymore. Now real people are feeling scared and alienated just for being there. Make no mistake, this is a real feeling. In atleast one case there was actual violence against a person simply for displaying alliance symbols:
I believe there was another incident as well, but I do not have that link off hand. I have also heard anecdotes of people displaying alliance affiliation having random insults and jeers directed towards them.
Ultimately, the above example was the fault of the two boys. But if Blizzard hadn't evoked such emotions with their video and cheering perhaps it would not have happened. Obviously the kids were running on adrenaline (I hope, I hate to think such delinquents are apart of our humble community). Perhaps if the frenzy weren't initiated they would have run around wooping about how awesome the foo fighters were instead.
The offense is not from the guy from the video. He was immature and it was a bit ridiculous. The offence is from the fact that Blizzard did not stop to consider what this might cause. The lack of empathy shown makes me sick. You people make me sick.
Cue the trolling, I have come to expect no less around here. #MartyrForTrolling.
My thoughts exactly. The man in the video basically started an uproar from one group of people against another by being aggressively and passionately for the horde and against the alliance. It doesn't matter that it's a video game which causes these distinctions between people, the brutish, emotional call uniting any group of people for one cause incites a mob. The enthusiasm the horde player's manifesto incited literally makes the crowd more primitive, more violent and less socially responsible. They lose their ability to judge the ethical implications of their actions and the potential for chaos occurs. It was a dangerous scenario which should be avoided at all costs. Even though nothing serious went down, the uneasiness and fear that the horde mob probably caused in the alliance players there is simply unacceptable, everyone there should have been able to feel safe and comfortable in their environment.
I'm guessing by "the uneasiness and fear that the horde mob probably caused in the alliance players" that you probably weren't there. I was, and back when I played WoW (left just before Cata was released) I was Alliance. There was no fear in that room, the atmosphere was electric, excited, and fun... that's about it. Having an anti-Alliance band on the stage was what finally made me cheer and show some faction pride, and anyone there will tell you that after that video, the Alliance cheers were even louder than before.
Point being, it wasn't this fear filled/nearly rioting mass of angry people, it was a bunch of nerds cheering for their faction (on both sides). This wasn't a protest, or a hate speech, or anywhere near a 'dangerous situation.' It was a damn nerd convention where 26,000 people got together to support the games/company we love. It wasn't a divisive convention... quite the opposite! Seeing the passion everyone had for their respective games/factions/races/etc made my buddy who went with me pick up WoW again.
Well, maybe you weren't scared or uncomfortable, but some people were. I believe the exact quotation was "fuck the alliance, fucking die you fucking emo cocksuckers" to which there were emphatic cheers. So in essence, the crowd irrationally AND emphatically agreed with that man's sentiments. That's a mob mentality. You can't tell me that that sort of reaction to that sort of statement is rational. No right-minded individual would cheer at that kind of statement were it not for the mob mentality. So, proven to be in an irrational and emotional state, the crowd therefore has the potential to be dangerous, as they're acting without conscience. That's not a good place for a crowd to be when there is a large group of people (alliance fans) that are potential targets for the mob's rage. I'm not saying that this is the end of the world, all I'm saying is MAYBE it isn't the best idea to have hate speech to incite the crowd when the target of said hate speech is in attendance.
On October 28 2011 13:39 BoX wrote: I was going to ask you if you're serious.. But I think that you're being serious.
I was not there so I can't really comment on whether or not someone might've gotten scared in the crowd. Maybe some people did get scared. Hell, you know what, you're probably right. I think that those people have learned not to expose themselves to such a situation in the future. Nobody died, right?
Do you suppose that there should be a disclaimer or a sign at the entrance to this general area that says "People may become excited and cheer. If this alarms you, please stay to the outer perimeter where you can exit the premises if deemed necessary"
I don't think it's okay to dumb down events so that the feeble minded individuals feel safe. I think I should excuse myself from this discussion though. I took the training wheels off my bike pretty early in life. Also, I'd crush any individual member of the Alliance whom I saw trembling in fear or standing in a puddle of urine.
A woman was assaulted. Does she have to die before you see the problem?
The problem is (if that happened, I've only seen the forum post as evidence... and we all know how reliable forums are) that two guys were being assholes. It's a crime, literally, and they should be punished accordingly but in no way do I see that as being the fault of Blizzard, L90ETC, or that other guy (Corpsegrinder?).
You said you were there, do you deny that the Alliance was cheering even louder after all that? The video did what it was supposed to do, got the fans excited to show pride in the their faction and game.
Also Box, I love the disclaimer =D
Sure, it might not have happened. But maybe it did. But since it might not of we should ignore the issues it raises, right?
I don't deny that the Alliance was cheering louder. Certainly the other 20-something males who played Alliance exclusively did not fear the situation. As I have stated, probably most people didn't.
Now, the two guys were being assholes, absolutely. Probably running on adrenaline, the show and the atmosphere were INCREDIBLY electric. It would get the blood flowing in anyone. I was certainly pumped. People do stupid stuff when they are running on adrenaline. Scientific fact. If it hadn't been put in their head to hate the alliance though, perhaps they would have done something else stupid, but not hurtful. Run around screaming and waking people up... I don't know.
On October 28 2011 13:35 McKTenor13 wrote: Stop being offended by things. Seriously it creates more problems than if people just let it be
This... This makes me very very sad to see. Very sad. =(
Ponder a moment on the implications of this please.
I guess I should've worded it better, but this is being blown way out of proportion. He was ripping on the Alliance. Not gay people. I have gay friends, I support them, and they would be sad to see people freaking out about this and would agree with me. People really need to stop hearing the word homo or gay once and immediately think they are making fun of gay people. It's sad =/
I invite you to read my original post. I believe it was the second one of page 5. I agree, he was ripping on the alliance. The big problem here isn't his verbage.
Ah ok well then that makes a lot more sense. I usually just read the OP and a few pages hear or there to get a general read of the post. Even though they did get them riled up about Horde they didn't really start anything too dangerous. It's not like because of that video a giant riot is going to break loose and people are going to get beaten to death. That's just a whole lot of passion. The same kind of passion I see with sports fans and the same passion we'll end up seeing with starcraft 2 most likely. It may not be the prettiest thing to watch, but it gets their blood flowing and makes them want to play the game more.
This is a fairly old video aswel iirc. people just say "ok yeah dont be a fag" - IT IS NOT AGAINST GAY PEOPLE. sure, analyze it, go into great depth about, write a fucking essay about what it really means, but the intention was to insult alliance players, the gays are just trying to get something out of it too.
oh look i said "fucking" i suppose im against people having sex oh dear lets all complain.
On October 28 2011 13:22 Brettatron wrote: It's not hard to think that someone might have felt uncomfortable after some 15000 people just cheered when a guy on screen called you a cocksucker.
Except that the guy on stage didn't call any individual a cocksucker. He called an entire group of people cocksuckers.
...Right, which is to say it's alright if you call all members of a group a slur of some sort, it's okay, because it's not on a personal, case by case basis?
comedians do it all the time and people pay to see them do it live and then laugh and have a good time.
imagine if the situation did not involve the issue of homosexuality. would you have this same reaction if the thread was titled "Anti-alliance slurs at Blizzcon?" would you be outraged that a Horde player insulted all Alliance players?
That's not exactly the same. Comedians do it as part of an act, generally one you understand a bit before you decide on your ticket. If you're going to see Louis CK, you can expect slurs. He's funny, but it's never going to be something I'm going to support financially.
I never brought up homosexuality, and I'm not outraged. I questioned the reasoning of one poster, and asked when does the community say 'hey, this prepared video statement shouting hatespeech at a large amount of the audience isn't cool'. If Mike Morhaime called me an 'emo cocksucker' for liking the color green more than blue, it'd still be an issue and I feel it could warrant intelligent discussion as a community rather than 'people are butt hurt, they just need to get over it.'
I have to ask again, when does it stop being cool? Does Jay Mohr get tell people not to watch the SC2 finals because it's just two 'slant eyed, rice eating chinks' at Blizzcon 2012?
Put into their head to hate the Alliance.... really? I heard people yelling 'Fuck the Alliance" and "Horde Sucks!" in the opening ceremony. The game is based around the Horde and Alliance being at war, you honestly think that a video showed 2 hours before the event let out caused them to be stupid? Seems infinitely more likely to me that they were just some punks looking to cause trouble.
Also, where exactly am I ignoring the issue? I'm *disagreeing* as to what the issue is, and that my friend is the key difference. If you want anecdotal evidence, there were a couple of (possibly teen, I'm terrible at guessing girls ages) females sitting a few rows up from me that were screaming for the Alliance as well, just as hyped up as the vast majority of the crowd. So because a few people got scared that a band was expressing their pride in their faction of a game it's suddenly Blizzard's fault?
The place was electric, we all agree, just like any other concert or sporting event... and just like any other concert or sporting event some people drink, people get excited, and some stupid people do stupid shit. I think we all agree on that as well. The disagreement comes in where you try to rationalize that Blizzard is in the wrong for letting the performer, who is apparently an avid fan of their game, come out and show his pride. I don't see anything wrong with that.
"I believe the exact quotation was "fuck the alliance, fucking die you fucking emo cocksuckers" to which there were emphatic cheers. So in essence, the crowd irrationally AND emphatically agreed with that man's sentiments."
"Hang the ref!" is a pretty commonly shouted thing at hockey games, as is calling them blind, retarded, cocksuckers, etc. People cheer on these sentiments and similar ones directed at opposing players (myself included). Where's the outrage for that? Does our 'proven' mental state mean we're going to go assault the refs after the game?
I'm off to lunch for a bit, guys and gals. Let me just leave you all with a nice "Chill out" =D
I'm not quite sure what it is you are complaining about here. Are you upset with the Anti-Alliance hate? Or did he the metal singer say something that was censored ( I was at the live concert and i saw the video ). I really don't think that blizzard should be held responsible in any way. If this guy did use some anti-anything rhetoric then get over it. I don't see why there is a need to complain. Also FOR THE HORDE!!
It's a totally stupid, politically correct, lame harassing move by a minority.
I'm sorry, but people on the internet call each other faggots. We're not homophobes we're just colloquial. It was a very real, regular conversation made in joking that some people took personally, and now Blizzard will be afraid to do anything remotely cool ever again.
On October 28 2011 14:14 Critter wrote: Put into their head to hate the Alliance.... really? I heard people yelling 'Fuck the Alliance" and "Horde Sucks!" in the opening ceremony. The game is based around the Horde and Alliance being at war, you honestly think that a video showed 2 hours before the event let out caused them to be stupid? Seems infinitely more likely to me that they were just some punks looking to cause trouble.
Also, where exactly am I ignoring the issue? I'm *disagreeing* as to what the issue is, and that my friend is the key difference. If you want anecdotal evidence, there were a couple of (possibly teen, I'm terrible at guessing girls ages) females sitting a few rows up from me that were screaming for the Alliance as well, just as hyped up as the vast majority of the crowd. So because a few people got scared that a band was expressing their pride in their faction of a game it's suddenly Blizzard's fault?
The place was electric, we all agree, just like any other concert or sporting event... and just like any other concert or sporting event some people drink, people get excited, and some stupid people do stupid shit. I think we all agree on that as well. The disagreement comes in where you try to rationalize that Blizzard is in the wrong for letting the performer, who is apparently an avid fan of their game, come out and show his pride. I don't see anything wrong with that.
"I believe the exact quotation was "fuck the alliance, fucking die you fucking emo cocksuckers" to which there were emphatic cheers. So in essence, the crowd irrationally AND emphatically agreed with that man's sentiments."
"Hang the ref!" is a pretty commonly shouted thing at hockey games, as is calling them blind, retarded, cocksuckers, etc. People cheer on these sentiments and similar ones directed at opposing players (myself included). Where's the outrage for that? Does our 'proven' mental state mean we're going to go assault the refs after the game?
I'm off to lunch for a bit, guys and gals. Let me just leave you all with a nice "Chill out" =D
Uhmm... you arent missing the point. I think I might have stated that in an earlier response because the point was slightly missed. We are now on it. As such, I didn't say that the point was missed in my most recent response to you.
Ok, let me add to the list of points we agree on. We also agree that there is nothing wrong with having famous (or pseudo-famous, as the case may be) people express pride for his faction. I commend them for trying. I think it was not really the most considerate move to show a video inciting hatred for a group of people in attendance however. Blizzard is a responsible company that has often expressed that they want people to get along. Look at the rules of the forums and all that. This creates a sense of comfort for those alliance who decide "hey, blizzard will protect me" so they go. Then they get ripped on. Not everyone is going to be afraid, as proven by your anecdote. Maybe stupid kids will be stupid kids.
Fuck I'm tired. I can't come up with a coherent argument at the moment. I promise this is going somewhere and will be finished tomorrow. In the mean time, I want to put a disclaimer that I am in no way against a healthy discussion such as this and think that you are one of a very few intellectual people expressing their opinion in this thread. It is IGNORANCE and people not HAVING an argument and simply reply with trollish statements that get me raging to the point where I want to write an essay and defend a hard-to-defend point over the internet.
I'm not gay myself but I find it pathetic if words offend you in any way. If you're gay, and you're actually hurt by the words "homo" and "faggot" then I don't look down on you for being homosexual, I look down on you for being a huge pussy.
This reaction is more tahn stupid. Its like when you hear someone say motherf***er to someone and you were raped by your mum when you were a child. Do you go on the streets and blame him as an ignorant person and this word should be forbidden by law? This is way to much overreaction
I'm sorry that sometimes someone asks you all to refrain from acting in a way that upsets them. I'm sure it's really difficult for you.
Thats just normal. Someone blames you for something totally stupid which noone would offended if they werent a "huge pussy". If you are in the spotlight yuo have to say sorry no matter how ridiculous it is. Thats how it works
On October 28 2011 14:49 Tppz! wrote: This reaction is more tahn stupid. Its like when you hear someone say motherf***er to someone and you were raped by your mum when you were a child. Do you go on the streets and blame him as an ignorant person and this word should be forbidden by law? This is way to much overreaction
I'm sorry that sometimes someone asks you all to refrain from acting in a way that upsets them. I'm sure it's really difficult for you.
Thats just normal. Someone blames you for something totally stupid which noone would offended if they werent a "huge pussy". If you are in the spotlight yuo have to say sorry no matter how ridiculous it is. Thats how it works
Point to me where anyone's suggesting that any of the words he said be banned by law.
These arguments are never about censorship, it's just about respecting other people.
HAHAHAHA OH YEAH this is the internet, that won't ever happen.
It seems like there is a contest on teamliquid to see who can be offended by the most innocuous thing. Everyone seems to want to be protected from even the slightest irritation. Some seriously people need to grow a thicker scin and learn to laugh at a joke. I really hope this trend stops, it makes teamliquid feel like some kind of pretentious diversity seminar.
Guys I have a gay alliance friend who knows George personally, and he is really surprised that so many people are getting butthurt over it. I am in the same boat, he was just joking
The world would be so much better if that were the case. People still feel they have some right to not ever be offended, and shit like this is the result. I can't fathom why people put any thought into something as mindless and banal as this. Oh wow, a dude was hyping up WoW and insulting a faction.
Stop the fucking presses. He used some choice words in his descriptions. Next time I see on TL somebody calling another poster "stupid" I had better see a thread dedicated to how this is insulting to people with low IQ's. Or how being stupid is just a life choice, and don't judge people for their chosen ignorance (obviously this analogy is stupid, but so is this entire conversation).
What is happening with all these anti-gay threads popping up all of a sudden? This sort of seems over the top and I'm not anti-gay but seriously you're just making yourselves look bad by attempting to attract attention.
It doesn't seem like a big deal to me and if people didn't pay attention to this sort of stuff then it wouldn't get posted on TL. People all have their opinions on these sorts of topics and the vocalist of freaking Cannibal Corpse is not going to be writing songs about holding hands in unicorn land. You disagree with him and he clearly disagrees with you and seeing as nobody on either side of this argument is going to concede to the other it's pointless to talk about. And it's not like Blizzard told him to say that stuff so they are not endorsing it.
I find it funny that western society teaches children little rules such as "Stick and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me", and we accept it as children. Then we turn around once we become adults and act like every word that causes any negative emotional change in us is terrible, and the person should have to apologize for saying it. The person may not have meant what they said in an offensive manner but that doesn't matter, he should not be able to say it to me!
Steve Hughes has a pretty damn good rant on why being offended is incredibly stupid. What happens when you're offended? NOTHING. Just forget it and move on, he obviously didn't mean anything negative towards homosexuals, he was using a colliqualism. Grow up people.
On October 28 2011 14:41 MattO1337 wrote: I'm not gay myself but I find it pathetic if words offend you in any way. If you're gay, and you're actually hurt by the words "homo" and "faggot" then I don't look down on you for being homosexual, I look down on you for being a huge pussy.
On October 28 2011 14:41 MattO1337 wrote: I'm not gay myself but I find it pathetic if words offend you in any way. If you're gay, and you're actually hurt by the words "homo" and "faggot" then I don't look down on you for being homosexual, I look down on you for being a huge pussy.
So if I call you a nigger, that's alright then?
Just because someone's manner of speech isn't politically correct does not mean they are looking to offend someone specific. It's all about the way it is said and under what pretenses, not what is said.
Context is king. There's a big difference when "you fucking nigger" or "fucking faggot" is said in an actual confrontation than when it is said in video-game banter.
On October 28 2011 14:41 MattO1337 wrote: I'm not gay myself but I find it pathetic if words offend you in any way. If you're gay, and you're actually hurt by the words "homo" and "faggot" then I don't look down on you for being homosexual, I look down on you for being a huge pussy.
So if I call you a nigger, that's alright then?
I wouldn't be offended by that at all. I'm white though so maybe you'd think that's the reason. Actually no, I literally wouldn't get offended no matter what you called me.
It's a word, it only means something if you let it mean something, just ignore it and move on.
What a freaking crazy thread, how in the freaking WORLD is this thread worthy? I mean hell, they even freaking CENSORED It. As far as I'm concerned, there was zero anti-gay anything in any of the videos linked.
People need to toughen the hell up.... this is why people hate Americans. People complain about any and everything
On October 28 2011 14:41 MattO1337 wrote: I'm not gay myself but I find it pathetic if words offend you in any way. If you're gay, and you're actually hurt by the words "homo" and "faggot" then I don't look down on you for being homosexual, I look down on you for being a huge pussy.
So if I call you a nigger, that's alright then?
I wouldn't be offended by that at all. I'm white though so maybe you'd think that's the reason. Actually no, I literally wouldn't get offended no matter what you called me.
It's a word, it only means something if you let it mean something, just ignore it and move on.
You really are pretty stupid. Try to think outside your own ethnicity and use some common sense.
Isn't the point of language to communicate ideas? So isn't language an intermediate step in the transfer of ideas?
If so shouldn't we analyze the IDEAS being expressed instead of the language?
If someone says "faggot" with the MEANING that they hate gay people and are trying to offend someone for being gay, isn't that different than using it in the banter we often see in online games?
The pro-gay stance people are taking is getting ridiculous.
CONTEXT PEOPLE, CONTEXT
What next, forming a posse to lynch the guy for using words in a negative connotation which may or may not have been referring to persons of specific sexual orientation?
It is one thing to fight for the right for two consenting adults engage in activities in the privacy of their bedroom, but this is madness. Personal army much?
Havn't you seen how happy dwarves and gnomes are? Jeesh so sensitive, he's just saying they're happy people and he enjoys being unhappy. Fuck being happy.
I don't know the guy and i can't listen to the video since i'm at work... but: Isn't the whole idea of that metal style to offend every person on the planet as much as possible?
From the OP it sounds like Blizzard cut the video properly, so from their part i don't see any fault. If you want to get angry at Blizzard for things they did not show... well, you might as well sue the developers of "The Sims" for having sex in the game that they don't show... (The Poor Kids!)
Maybe it's because i'm not gay, but i'd say just ignore it and move on...
I'm mostly disappointed about Blizzard hiring such act anyway. There may be a time and place for such stuff, but I don't think it's Blizzcon regardless of whether someone gets offended or not.
As for where the line of offensive goes, no comment. From a Finnish cultural viewpoint such things usually don't seem awfully big of a deal, but it has often seemed that the US situation is quite different in many ways.
This really doesn't deserve a thread.. He was clearly kidding. I know some of you have said that that's the easiest way to "forgive" hate speech, but in this case, he was.. he was even laughing and smiling between rants.. People say this type of stuff all of the time, and although I don't condone it, it really isn't that big of a deal unless actually used to an insult a person or directly confront them.
Also, I watched that video, and I know this is a bit off topic from the purpose of the thread but.. Jesus that music is terrible.. how does anyone even listen to that..
Sorry, but your friends are a bunch of know hows big university brainers that make something out of nothing.
Yeah the whole world is anti-gay because we don't arrest him because he possibly has few anti-gay lines in a video on the internet.
I mean this should be closed, this topic is silly.
Its like saying I hate woman if I have an argument with my GF and I insult her and because I work in company X, then company X is anti woman.
I mean come on people wake up and stop with this crazy witch hunt.
I mean for frak sake I've sometimes insulted gays, but then I've actually insulted my friends, I've insulted family, etc... But because lets consider gays a special precious group lets all talk how I insulted gays once.
I say to your friends don't go fishing in a well, its an old saying and it applies really well here!
On October 28 2011 14:41 MattO1337 wrote: I'm not gay myself but I find it pathetic if words offend you in any way. If you're gay, and you're actually hurt by the words "homo" and "faggot" then I don't look down on you for being homosexual, I look down on you for being a huge pussy.
So if I call you a nigger, that's alright then?
I wouldn't be offended by that at all. I'm white though so maybe you'd think that's the reason. Actually no, I literally wouldn't get offended no matter what you called me.
It's a word, it only means something if you let it mean something, just ignore it and move on.
You really are pretty stupid. Try to think outside your own ethnicity and use some common sense.
That's nonsense. Firstly, you can discriminate against more than someone's ethnicity (sex, orientation, hair length, religion). Secondly, nobody is immune, not even whites. It's condescending to suggest that someone who is white never grew a thick enough skin to suck up insults that are just words.
There are two methods involved in liberation here. One is that you should just not take offense. Being offended is self-inflicted condition. Anyone being offended is an insult to the free exchange of ideas. There's also usually some special pleading involved (i.e. a black individual claiming "you can't even mention any word starting with "nig" without my being offended, now go away so my friends and I can say it to each other anyway).
The second is that probably the vehicle for realizing why words aren't offensive is this: the fact that we have a word for something doesn't imply the fact of its existence. In this way we can debunk P.C., stop being scared of language, and gain even more solidarity.
However, not everything you said was wrong: common sense is obviously a great practical aid to know when using words people might object to could put your body in unnecessary danger. But this doesn't say anything about the truth of the matter at hand. That is, my exercising the greater part of valor around someone who would knife me if he felt his ethnicity offended doesn't carry any ethical weight about whether it's okay to use some word.
Smokers are suicidal, fat people are stupid, gays are ... gay?
Stereotypes exists, no reason to get offended about everyone who is being a moron about it. Just ignore them, they are ignorant.
Now, gays not being able to get married, adopt children, etc - that is something that it's fair and right to get upset about - in my opinion. Or just getting killed in certain african countries ... Because that's discrimination.
But someone just using foul language and being an idiot ... I don't see it as much to get upset about.
I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
So its a bad business move to use a well known musician who is a big fan of your game to perform on stage for an event celebrating the game? The remarks of the video were indeed edited, its his personality. When that video was originally linked it was just comical that such a hardcore guy was so hooked on WoW.
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
So its a bad business move to use a well known musician who is a big fan of your game to perform on stage for an event celebrating the game? The remarks of the video were indeed edited, its his personality. When that video was originally linked it was just comical that such a hardcore guy was so hooked on WoW.
Its in very bad taste to alienate 50% of one of your games subscribers just to be like, hey look, a celebrity in a band of some kind you "might" know, plays horde and is a total douche about it!
I'd have hated to see Browder get up on stage and introduce a video of a celebrity Starcraft 2 player who went on to say all Terran and Protoss players can suck his dick and die in a fire.
And i have to agree with what I've read, if i was a big WoW player who loved Alliance wearing a shirt to show my love and i was in a dark room full of thousands of people screaming how much Alliance suck due to being stirred up by what was on stage, i'd have felt a little unnerved myself.
Besides all that the contents of the video where just stupid and can offend some people, be them Gay, Straight, Alliance or Horde, There's a reason that video hasn't been Seen on TV and is Flagged as Inappropriate on YouTube. It should not have been given equal attention as a WoW expansion announcement or GSL Finals, which it was, given that it was played on stage in front of thousands of eyes, during the Closing Ceremony.
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
So its a bad business move to use a well known musician who is a big fan of your game to perform on stage for an event celebrating the game? The remarks of the video were indeed edited, its his personality. When that video was originally linked it was just comical that such a hardcore guy was so hooked on WoW.
Its in very bad taste to alienate 50% of one of your games subscribers just to be like, hey look, a celebrity in a band of some kind you "might" know, plays horde and is a total douche about it!
I'd have hated to see Browder get up on stage and introduce a video of a celebrity Starcraft 2 player who went on to say all Terran and Protoss players can suck his dick and die in a fire.
And i have to agree with what I've read, if i was a big WoW player who loved Alliance wearing a shirt to show my love and i was in a dark room full of thousands of people screaming how much Alliance suck due to being stirred up by what was on stage, i'd have felt a little unnerved myself.
Besides all that the contents of the video where just stupid and can offend some people, be them Gay, Straight, Alliance or Horde, There's a reason that video hasn't been Seen on TV and is Flagged as Inappropriate on YouTube. It should not have been given equal attention as a WoW expansion announcement or GSL Finals, which it was, given that it was played on stage in front of thousands of eyes, during the Closing Ceremony.
On a similar note all that Gordon Hayward stuff with IPL was pretty annoying. We get it, your an athlete. But then they go and push that because hes an athlete hes better than gamers lol.
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
So its a bad business move to use a well known musician who is a big fan of your game to perform on stage for an event celebrating the game? The remarks of the video were indeed edited, its his personality. When that video was originally linked it was just comical that such a hardcore guy was so hooked on WoW.
I'd have hated to see Browder get up on stage and introduce a video of a celebrity Starcraft 2 player who went on to say all Terran and Protoss players can suck his dick and die in a fire.
Meanwhile, I wouldn't give a fuck if that happened. Good for him. Why should I care if he doesn't like Protoss? Hell, I've had a high school dropout (who's rather unsociable and cowardly and likes being a dick to people he feels intimidated by) tell me Protoss is for sissies and mentally retarded people along with a tirade of insults against myself because I play Protoss. I asked him a few times if he was serious and he said he was being dead serious, no joking at all, and I could tell by his tone he was serious. Hearty laughs were had for me. As for him, he didn't look happy I'll say that.
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
So its a bad business move to use a well known musician who is a big fan of your game to perform on stage for an event celebrating the game? The remarks of the video were indeed edited, its his personality. When that video was originally linked it was just comical that such a hardcore guy was so hooked on WoW.
Its in very bad taste to alienate 50% of one of your games subscribers just to be like, hey look, a celebrity in a band of some kind you "might" know, plays horde and is a total douche about it!
I'd have hated to see Browder get up on stage and introduce a video of a celebrity Starcraft 2 player who went on to say all Terran and Protoss players can suck his dick and die in a fire.
And i have to agree with what I've read, if i was a big WoW player who loved Alliance wearing a shirt to show my love and i was in a dark room full of thousands of people screaming how much Alliance suck due to being stirred up by what was on stage, i'd have felt a little unnerved myself.
Besides all that the contents of the video where just stupid and can offend some people, be them Gay, Straight, Alliance or Horde, There's a reason that video hasn't been Seen on TV and is Flagged as Inappropriate on YouTube. It should not have been given equal attention as a WoW expansion announcement or GSL Finals, which it was, given that it was played on stage in front of thousands of eyes, during the Closing Ceremony.
On a similar note all that Gordon Hayward stuff with IPL was pretty annoying. We get it, your an athlete. But then they go and push that because hes an athlete hes better than gamers lol.
Exactly, they did the same thing, you know whats up, we should be friends!~
I'd have hated to see Browder get up on stage and introduce a video of a celebrity Starcraft 2 player who went on to say all Terran and Protoss players can suck his dick and die in a fire.
Meanwhile, I wouldn't give a fuck if that happened. Good for him.
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
I can, have, and will say again that those videos didn't stir up any hate. The game is based on a war between the two factions............ a war..... between the two factions. There's competition there, built into the game, between the two factions. Both sides were shouting for their side/against the other side during the opening damn ceremonies. All the act did was stir up the passion for competition and excitement for our factions in the crowd, which personally was awesome to be a part of.
Blaming the alleged assault on that video/concert is as dumb as blaming suicides on Marilyn Manson. If a video/concert is going to push you over the edge into doing something stupid then you were only clinging to that edge by a fingernail.
People yelled for the Horde, so other people yelled louder for the Alliance and so on. Same thing happened at the RTS stage. "We have any Zerg players out here tonight?" *Cheers* "How about any Protoss players rooting for ____" *attempting louder cheers* It didn't like it divided the crowd, it united us in our passion for the game.
Again, this is all coming from an (ex)WoW player who was on the Alliance. The one sided act got my blood pumping more, got me cheering louder for the Alliance (and for the game and Blizzard for creating such a passionate fanbase).
If you didn't like the video... ok, that's your opinion. I thought the over the top nature of it was in itself funny. This hardcore, metal dude getting so amped up over a video game was awesome. He called me a cocksucker and said I should die, oh noes! Zero fucks given, I've shouted the same stuff at sporting events, had it shouted at me, and at the end of the game I've shaken hands with people who like a different team. It's part of the intensity of live events. In my experience very, very few people actually dislike others just because they have a different sporting affiliation, play a different race, are on the other faction, etc. There's competition there but after the game is over you're just two people who love the sport/game/etc.
EDIT:
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I'd have hated to see Browder get up on stage and introduce a video of a celebrity Starcraft 2 player who went on to say all Terran and Protoss players can suck his dick and die in a fire.
Would you? I'd love it! BAM, instant rivalry. Now I have someone to boo, now there's some passion in that players games as I want the Protoss he's playing to win. Do I hate him? Nope. Does he hate me? Nope. What he's done is create interest in his matches (much like Idra....?) and become someone the crowd loves to root against. Don't see how this is a bad thing... I mean, do you actually believe that he wants you to personally suck his dick and then die in a fire? If so then maybe competition isn't for you...
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
I can, have, and will say again that those videos didn't stir up any hate. The game is based on a war between the two factions............ a war..... between the two factions. There's competition there, built into the game, between the two factions. Both sides were shouting for their side/against the other side during the opening damn ceremonies. All the act did was stir up the passion for competition and excitement for our factions in the crowd, which personally was awesome to be a part of.
Blaming the alleged assault on that video/concert is as dumb as blaming suicides on Marilyn Manson. If a video/concert is going to push you over the edge into doing something stupid then you were only clinging to that edge by a fingernail.
People yelled for the Horde, so other people yelled louder for the Alliance and so on. Same thing happened at the RTS stage. "We have any Zerg players out here tonight?" *Cheers* "How about any Protoss players rooting for ____" *attempting louder cheers* It didn't like it divided the crowd, it united us in our passion for the game.
Again, this is all coming from an (ex)WoW player who was on the Alliance. The one sided act got my blood pumping more, got me cheering louder for the Alliance (and for the game and Blizzard for creating such a passionate fanbase).
If you didn't like the video... ok, that's your opinion. I thought the over the top nature of it was in itself funny. This hardcore, metal dude getting so amped up over a video game was awesome. He called me a cocksucker and said I should die, oh noes! Zero fucks given, I've shouted the same stuff at sporting events, had it shouted at me, and at the end of the game I've shaken hands with people who like a different team. It's part of the intensity of live events. In my experience very, very few people actually dislike others just because they have a different sporting affiliation, play a different race, are on the other faction, etc. There's competition there but after the game is over you're just two people who love the sport/game/etc.
Oh don't worry, I agree with you for the most part, but saying Blizzards actions has "NO" effect, is just bullshit, we all know how easily people can get riled up.
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
So its a bad business move to use a well known musician who is a big fan of your game to perform on stage for an event celebrating the game? The remarks of the video were indeed edited, its his personality. When that video was originally linked it was just comical that such a hardcore guy was so hooked on WoW.
Its in very bad taste to alienate 50% of one of your games subscribers just to be like, hey look, a celebrity in a band of some kind you "might" know, plays horde and is a total douche about it!
I'd have hated to see Browder get up on stage and introduce a video of a celebrity Starcraft 2 player who went on to say all Terran and Protoss players can suck his dick and die in a fire.
And i have to agree with what I've read, if i was a big WoW player who loved Alliance wearing a shirt to show my love and i was in a dark room full of thousands of people screaming how much Alliance suck due to being stirred up by what was on stage, i'd have felt a little unnerved myself.
Besides all that the contents of the video where just stupid and can offend some people, be them Gay, Straight, Alliance or Horde, There's a reason that video hasn't been Seen on TV and is Flagged as Inappropriate on YouTube. It should not have been given equal attention as a WoW expansion announcement or GSL Finals, which it was, given that it was played on stage in front of thousands of eyes, during the Closing Ceremony.
On a similar note all that Gordon Hayward stuff with IPL was pretty annoying. We get it, your an athlete. But then they go and push that because hes an athlete hes better than gamers lol.
Exactly, they did the same thing, you know whats up, we should be friends!~
I'd have hated to see Browder get up on stage and introduce a video of a celebrity Starcraft 2 player who went on to say all Terran and Protoss players can suck his dick and die in a fire.
Meanwhile, I wouldn't give a fuck if that happened. Good for him.
We shouldn't be friends, sorry >.>
Well, 1) I wasn't planning on being friends lol, and 2) I apologize that I wouldn't get my feelings hurt because someone said bad things about a faction I prefer in a strategy game :S.
Given that Blizzard actually censored out the part where the guy says homo its pretty clear they arnt condoning any anti gay message and to suggest they are is just plain dumb.
In fact even if they didnt, it would be dumb too. It's just petty people missing the entire point so they can feel offended and special
Gamer community I am disappoint. Not by everyone here, but that there's a similar distribution of opinion amongst the random public...
Imagine if Apple had a recorded video at one of their shin-digs and they had some guy spewing about "c@#%su%&$#ing" android users, etc. - I would have been reading about it in the news. The only difference between it happening at Blizzcon and that is the different community of fans. (e.g. adults?) and what they will allow without raising a ruckus.
Nobody cares about the alliance/horde crap. Unless you're 12. It's the word choices that show the bias against gay people, and that Blizz let it pass.
Words have meaning, and it may not be what you intended, but tough crap. The fault is on you if you're unaware of the arguments for why you do or do not perform certain actions, like perpetuating hate speech.
I guess people dismissing this believe that you can't be held accountable for what you do, and are likely guilty of similar grievances.
I'm not saying I've never said something was gay when it had no relation, but I'll admit fault. The point is we have to try to be better than that, and in a public forum this isn't all that hard to do. Particularly when it's a pre-recorded video, where the content is evaluated prior to being shown.
I just don't understand the naivety where people think words all of a sudden acquire new meanings, because you know, language changes! It just happens like that. There was no reason it happened, the connections to minority groups are completely irrelevant and never was there any debate on whether it should happen, so nobody even had a choice in just accepting the new words.
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
I can, have, and will say again that those videos didn't stir up any hate. The game is based on a war between the two factions............ a war..... between the two factions. There's competition there, built into the game, between the two factions. Both sides were shouting for their side/against the other side during the opening damn ceremonies. All the act did was stir up the passion for competition and excitement for our factions in the crowd, which personally was awesome to be a part of.
Blaming the alleged assault on that video/concert is as dumb as blaming suicides on Marilyn Manson. If a video/concert is going to push you over the edge into doing something stupid then you were only clinging to that edge by a fingernail.
People yelled for the Horde, so other people yelled louder for the Alliance and so on. Same thing happened at the RTS stage. "We have any Zerg players out here tonight?" *Cheers* "How about any Protoss players rooting for ____" *attempting louder cheers* It didn't like it divided the crowd, it united us in our passion for the game.
Again, this is all coming from an (ex)WoW player who was on the Alliance. The one sided act got my blood pumping more, got me cheering louder for the Alliance (and for the game and Blizzard for creating such a passionate fanbase).
If you didn't like the video... ok, that's your opinion. I thought the over the top nature of it was in itself funny. This hardcore, metal dude getting so amped up over a video game was awesome. He called me a cocksucker and said I should die, oh noes! Zero fucks given, I've shouted the same stuff at sporting events, had it shouted at me, and at the end of the game I've shaken hands with people who like a different team. It's part of the intensity of live events. In my experience very, very few people actually dislike others just because they have a different sporting affiliation, play a different race, are on the other faction, etc. There's competition there but after the game is over you're just two people who love the sport/game/etc.
Oh don't worry, I agree with you for the most part, but saying Blizzards actions has "NO" effect, is just bullshit, we all know how easily people can get riled up.
Then it would appear that our disagreement is about the level of effect. I think what they did was fine. At Blizzcon itself, everyone around me, Horde, Alliance, Zerg, Terran, Toss, Diabloers, etc seemed to agree, drinking up the hype with a garden hose and getting pumped for the songs and the following act (Foo Fighters were awesome, btw =D ). So it appears to me that there's a vocal minority that disapprove... many of which weren't even there and are simply speculating on what the attitude in the room was.
On October 28 2011 17:24 Ecology wrote:
Words have meaning, and it may not be what you intended, but tough crap. The fault is on you if you're unaware of the arguments for why you do or do not perform certain actions, like perpetuating hate speech.
faggot1 esp US, fagot [ˈfægət] n 1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel 2. (Engineering / Metallurgy) a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron 3. (Cookery) a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried 4. a bundle of anything
Words have meaning, but as evidenced above, that meaning evolves over time. Happens for all sorts of words. Calling something 'gay' in today's society often does not mean you're calling it homosexual, degrading homosexuals, or referencing homosexuals in any way. Language is fluid, new words and meanings pop up all the damn time.
I think it really was a poor choice by blizzard, idiots like him shouldn't be promoted. ever. Plus he if you watched the song, he wasn't really essential lol, he just does a few background growls and thats it. It kinda looks like they only brought him because of the video and because he's a well-known musician, at least in the metal scene.
On October 28 2011 10:52 jester- wrote: First world problems.
Was not offended and realized the comedy... Sometimes it's better to just take things with a grain of salt and relax.
This exactly.
Racism, hate and discrimination based on sexual preferences (or anything at all) are simply unacceptable. We have to learn the etymology of the word discrimination though: from L. discriminatus, pp. of discriminare "to divide, separate"
While it is not politically correct to call something "homo", "gay", etc, it is NOT done in a way that should cause serious concern. He does not discriminate between people. He uses this word in the modern context which (one of the interpretations) means something not straightforward or hard enough.
(I may use jokingly insults like that, while I have two close friends of both genders, who are homosexual. It is used in the same way, the word "shit" is used. It has it's own context. When someone yells "SHIT, i've ruined this shirt" you don't actually think about a turd, are you? It's the same for me and expressions like "that's gay". This is the situation for me and I believe for many others who do not like to think thrice before talking. It's bad, but it is done with no harm in mind)
Yes, I've heard the argument that through jokes is when the biggest truths are told. Yes, I can agree that if noone makes a little bit of noise, this kind of insulting will go on indefinately. Yes, there is a homophobic trend, product of the extremely harmful and dangerous influence that religions still have in the 21st century. Yes, it must be stopped.
NO, I do not think the following is a matter of concern: When a reporter provokes the leader and vocalist of the world's most famous death metal band in a "hateful towards the alliance" spirit. When this guy replies with the word "homo" as an insult among dozens of others.
Remember who this guy giving the interview is. Remember who his onstage persona is. He is the "Corpsegrinder". If you have no idea about the context in which he speaks in this insulting manner, at least try to do a bit of research.
I leave you with this, about the ridiculousness of the whole situation! + Show Spoiler +
I have read your feedback and comments about this year's BlizzCon, and I have also read the feedback to the apology from Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain. I'd like to respond to some of your feedback here.
As president of Blizzard, I take full responsibility for everything that occurs at BlizzCon.
It was shortsighted and insensitive to use the video at all, even in censored form. The language used in the original version, including the slurs and use of sexual orientation as an insult, is not acceptable, period. We realize now that having even an edited version at the show was counter to the standards we try to maintain in our forums and in our games. Doing so was an error in judgment, and we regret it.
The bottom line is we deeply apologize for our mistakes and for hurting or offending anyone. We want you to have fun at our events, and we want everyone to feel welcome. We're proud to be part of a huge and diverse community, and I am proud that so many aspects of the community are represented within Blizzard itself.
As a leader of Blizzard, and a member of the band, I truly hope you will accept my humblest apology.
- Mike Morhaime President, Blizzard Entertainment
The statement sums it up pretty good. Blizzard violated the own standards that they want to maintain in their products. The apology is pretty good and honest.
And to the ppl here that think its "just fun" to use sexual orientation as an insult: Maybe its a matter of taste, but I will never understand you there. But for a company like Blizzard its just not acceptable. Thanks Blizzard for your apology.
I think it really was a poor choice by blizzard, idiots like him shouldn't be promoted. ever. Plus he if you watched the song, he wasn't really essential lol, he just does a few background growls and thats it. It kinda looks like they only brought him because of the video and because he's a well-known musician, at least in the metal scene.
Thanks for this link. Everyone thinking this is just simple fun should read this.
I like that video. It's funny, and thats the reason it was shown. You even mention it was censored and you didn't even care when you saw it. There is no anti-gay hate speech, and ofcourse nobody gives a shit about Alliance hate, it isn't real.
I think everyone should make some effort to not be offended by every little thing. You and your 'super-academic friend' (LOL) sound like very upleasant people. Being offended does not entitle you to anything. In short: boo-fucking-hoo, bitch.
I hate that they apologized. So much. Another victory for the spineless.
Words have meaning, but as evidenced above, that meaning evolves over time. Happens for all sorts of words. Calling something 'gay' in today's society often does not mean you're calling it homosexual, degrading homosexuals, or referencing homosexuals in any way. Language is fluid, new words and meanings pop up all the damn time.
Of course, but during that period of transition of meaning I'm sure we can agree that different people (through their differing experiences) will attach their own meaning to these words. And that many words can be needlessly inflammatory.
Some of the words used by Corpsegrinder are much less open to interpretation.
So if say half of the audience might take it the wrong way. Isn't it prudent to err on the side of caution? I'm not offended really by Corpsegrinder himself, it's more about Blizz giving the go ahead.
--- ok I just read the Morhaime apology. It seemed genuine and I'm glad he had the gumption to acknowledge it.
faggot1 esp US, fagot [ˈfægət] n 1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel 2. (Engineering / Metallurgy) a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron 3. (Cookery) a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried 4. a bundle of anything
Words have meaning, but as evidenced above, that meaning evolves over time. Happens for all sorts of words. Calling something 'gay' in today's society often does not mean you're calling it homosexual, degrading homosexuals, or referencing homosexuals in any way. Language is fluid, new words and meanings pop up all the damn time.
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
I can, have, and will say again that those videos didn't stir up any hate. The game is based on a war between the two factions............ a war..... between the two factions. There's competition there, built into the game, between the two factions. Both sides were shouting for their side/against the other side during the opening damn ceremonies. All the act did was stir up the passion for competition and excitement for our factions in the crowd, which personally was awesome to be a part of.
Blaming the alleged assault on that video/concert is as dumb as blaming suicides on Marilyn Manson. If a video/concert is going to push you over the edge into doing something stupid then you were only clinging to that edge by a fingernail.
People yelled for the Horde, so other people yelled louder for the Alliance and so on. Same thing happened at the RTS stage. "We have any Zerg players out here tonight?" *Cheers* "How about any Protoss players rooting for ____" *attempting louder cheers* It didn't like it divided the crowd, it united us in our passion for the game.
Again, this is all coming from an (ex)WoW player who was on the Alliance. The one sided act got my blood pumping more, got me cheering louder for the Alliance (and for the game and Blizzard for creating such a passionate fanbase).
If you didn't like the video... ok, that's your opinion. I thought the over the top nature of it was in itself funny. This hardcore, metal dude getting so amped up over a video game was awesome. He called me a cocksucker and said I should die, oh noes! Zero fucks given, I've shouted the same stuff at sporting events, had it shouted at me, and at the end of the game I've shaken hands with people who like a different team. It's part of the intensity of live events. In my experience very, very few people actually dislike others just because they have a different sporting affiliation, play a different race, are on the other faction, etc. There's competition there but after the game is over you're just two people who love the sport/game/etc.
Oh don't worry, I agree with you for the most part, but saying Blizzards actions has "NO" effect, is just bullshit, we all know how easily people can get riled up.
Then it would appear that our disagreement is about the level of effect. I think what they did was fine. At Blizzcon itself, everyone around me, Horde, Alliance, Zerg, Terran, Toss, Diabloers, etc seemed to agree, drinking up the hype with a garden hose and getting pumped for the songs and the following act (Foo Fighters were awesome, btw =D ). So it appears to me that there's a vocal minority that disapprove... many of which weren't even there and are simply speculating on what the attitude in the room was.
Words have meaning, and it may not be what you intended, but tough crap. The fault is on you if you're unaware of the arguments for why you do or do not perform certain actions, like perpetuating hate speech.
faggot1 esp US, fagot [ˈfægət] n 1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel 2. (Engineering / Metallurgy) a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron 3. (Cookery) a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried 4. a bundle of anything
Words have meaning, but as evidenced above, that meaning evolves over time. Happens for all sorts of words. Calling something 'gay' in today's society often does not mean you're calling it homosexual, degrading homosexuals, or referencing homosexuals in any way. Language is fluid, new words and meanings pop up all the damn time.
do you actually believe the things you just wrote or are you trying to undermine a point with a red herring
Fast forward to today, when I found multiple posts on Facebook concerning Fisher's anti-Alliance rant. Some of my super-academic friends (two university professors concerned with history and gender studies, respectively) took some huge offense to this and were blaming Blizzard for basically promoting and condoning this guy (by letting him perform) who was using anti-gay slurs in this video they featured.
Swearing guy. Calls the enemy homos. Swears and rants. Who really takes offense at this kinda thing? He's not polite company, perhaps. But seriously? It was pretty funny.
"fuck you" - if its a guy saying to a guy or presumably male audience, anti gay "jesus christ" - anti religious, anti christian "that homo" - anti gay ... and the list goes on
I mean the effete elite do this all the time. Take offense to this and that, constantly. Pick your battles. If you're gonna do this to a someone like him ... you're not gonna be taken seriously for all your academic merit. If the head of Blizzard, or lead game designer does it in a cool-headed speech, there you strike and call him out. You might as well go to a heavy metal concert and expect to hear no four-letter words.
Pick your battles, you super-academics. Or be ignored even more than we do now.
Words have meaning, but as evidenced above, that meaning evolves over time. Happens for all sorts of words. Calling something 'gay' in today's society often does not mean you're calling it homosexual, degrading homosexuals, or referencing homosexuals in any way. Language is fluid, new words and meanings pop up all the damn time.
Of course, but during that period of transition of meaning I'm sure we can agree that different people (through their differing experiences) will attach their own meaning to these words. And that many words can be needlessly inflammatory.
Some of the words used by Corpsegrinder are much less open to interpretation.
So if say half of the audience might take it the wrong way. Isn't it prudent to err on the side of caution? I'm not offended really by Corpsegrinder himself, it's more about Blizz giving the go ahead.
If I thought that was the case, sure. I was there, however, and didn't see or hear about anybody being offended until tonight (I'm basing everything off of my firsthand observations, not claiming them as infallible facts, just for the record). The general reaction from the crowd was laughter. We were all high on the rush of the event, and here comes this hardcore metal dude spouting all this over the top stuff about a faction in a video game. Seeing such a hardass get all geeked up over a video game was hilarious, it'd be like Brock Lesner going wild over My Little Pony... it's unexpected, it's out of the norm.
If 13,000 people were offended, yeah, probably a bad move. If 130 people out 26,000 (possible hyperbole, but I'd bet money it was closer to .5% than 50%) were offended... oh well. You can't make everyone happy. As for the apology, Blizzard has to do damage control, it was expected from both sides of the discussion.
I leave you with this, about the ridiculousness of the whole situation! + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc-V3NYckOI
"Rape the limbless cadaver" Hahahahaha, and people are raging over what he said in that video? But before now had NO problem with any lyrics in the songs? Seriously, take a step back and realize how silly this is.
It's not about being personally hurt over anything. TMI, but:I have a gay family member who has done a lot of good for people and I take it as an afront if someone dismisses a person based on some stupid ancillary detail.
If you're not subjected to being a discriminated minority then good for you but many are not so lucky.
On October 28 2011 16:45 ZodaSoda wrote: I feel for the woman who got assaulted. you cant say Blizzards stirring up the Horde players hate of Alliance doesn't insight volatile behavior, and fact is a gathering of Fans for their games shouldn't feel one sided, be it, Horde vs Alliance or Starcraft vs Warcraft, also a video containing such a level of stupidity should not have been shown at an event of that nature at all, even in fun, the contents do not deserve a stage.
I can, have, and will say again that those videos didn't stir up any hate. The game is based on a war between the two factions............ a war..... between the two factions. There's competition there, built into the game, between the two factions. Both sides were shouting for their side/against the other side during the opening damn ceremonies. All the act did was stir up the passion for competition and excitement for our factions in the crowd, which personally was awesome to be a part of.
Blaming the alleged assault on that video/concert is as dumb as blaming suicides on Marilyn Manson. If a video/concert is going to push you over the edge into doing something stupid then you were only clinging to that edge by a fingernail.
People yelled for the Horde, so other people yelled louder for the Alliance and so on. Same thing happened at the RTS stage. "We have any Zerg players out here tonight?" *Cheers* "How about any Protoss players rooting for ____" *attempting louder cheers* It didn't like it divided the crowd, it united us in our passion for the game.
Again, this is all coming from an (ex)WoW player who was on the Alliance. The one sided act got my blood pumping more, got me cheering louder for the Alliance (and for the game and Blizzard for creating such a passionate fanbase).
If you didn't like the video... ok, that's your opinion. I thought the over the top nature of it was in itself funny. This hardcore, metal dude getting so amped up over a video game was awesome. He called me a cocksucker and said I should die, oh noes! Zero fucks given, I've shouted the same stuff at sporting events, had it shouted at me, and at the end of the game I've shaken hands with people who like a different team. It's part of the intensity of live events. In my experience very, very few people actually dislike others just because they have a different sporting affiliation, play a different race, are on the other faction, etc. There's competition there but after the game is over you're just two people who love the sport/game/etc.
Oh don't worry, I agree with you for the most part, but saying Blizzards actions has "NO" effect, is just bullshit, we all know how easily people can get riled up.
Then it would appear that our disagreement is about the level of effect. I think what they did was fine. At Blizzcon itself, everyone around me, Horde, Alliance, Zerg, Terran, Toss, Diabloers, etc seemed to agree, drinking up the hype with a garden hose and getting pumped for the songs and the following act (Foo Fighters were awesome, btw =D ). So it appears to me that there's a vocal minority that disapprove... many of which weren't even there and are simply speculating on what the attitude in the room was.
On October 28 2011 17:24 Ecology wrote:
Words have meaning, and it may not be what you intended, but tough crap. The fault is on you if you're unaware of the arguments for why you do or do not perform certain actions, like perpetuating hate speech.
faggot1 esp US, fagot [ˈfægət] n 1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel 2. (Engineering / Metallurgy) a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron 3. (Cookery) a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried 4. a bundle of anything
Words have meaning, but as evidenced above, that meaning evolves over time. Happens for all sorts of words. Calling something 'gay' in today's society often does not mean you're calling it homosexual, degrading homosexuals, or referencing homosexuals in any way. Language is fluid, new words and meanings pop up all the damn time.
do you actually believe the things you just wrote or are you trying to undermine a point with a red herring
In what way am I driving the conversation away from OP? The part where I'm explaining the crowds reaction from where I was, or the part where I point out that language evolves? I've been going point/counterpoint with people, not questioning their motives or intentions.
On October 28 2011 18:12 tso wrote:
hey my nigger, you got it!
..wait.. that doesn't work now does it
Not nearly as accepted as the words in questions. Gamers are a generally liberal community that use/are exposed to this type of language a lot. For the vast majority of us, in the context of the video especially, the usage has changed.
Alright folks, works over and I'm heading home and to bed. Have fun debating!
This type of material is only an issue when it is promoted by big companies (especially those who cater to children like Blizzard). Think back to the //Jailbait reddit, everybody knew it wasnt illegal but for one reason or another we like to make life easier on children and parents by keeping this kind of content separate for 'My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic' (or WoW in this case).
To me it's kindda simple... This is in no way a rant on homosexuals. So I'd take no offense at all. A poor choise of words - that's all... Should Blizzard play this? Probably not, but you know what they say about hindsight?
If I thought that was the case, sure. I was there, however, and didn't see or hear about anybody being offended until tonight (I'm basing everything off of my firsthand observations, not claiming them as infallible facts, just for the record). The general reaction from the crowd was laughter. We were all high on the rush of the event, and here comes this hardcore metal dude spouting all this over the top stuff about a faction in a video game. Seeing such a hardass get all geeked up over a video game was hilarious, it'd be like Brock Lesner going wild over My Little Pony... it's unexpected, it's out of the norm.
If 13,000 people were offended, yeah, probably a bad move. If 130 people out 26,000 (possible hyperbole, but I'd bet money it was closer to .5% than 50%) were offended... oh well. You can't make everyone happy. As for the apology, Blizzard has to do damage control, it was expected from both sides of the discussion.
Barring standing next to them. How are you going to know if someone took offense unless they have a mic and can stop the event?
*vinyl screech* "whoaaa now, stop everything..."
You will only hear about it later, due to the nature of the thing.
And if you think Morhaime was merely placating people then congrats you're more cynical than I am. Why would he take the time to write that if he thought it was only 0.5%?
"Homo," "queer," and "faggot" were the explicit slurs referring to male homosexuality in a negative and derogatory manner.
That being said, he didn't seem to intend it to be anti-gay. He pretty much was just hating on the alliance and didn't have the vocabulary to do it in a tasteful fashion. He's raging. People say stupid shit when they're mad, big deal.
I am not condoning homophobic behavior or even expressing any myself, but this is just under the border of me giving a genuine fuck. If he had said something along the lines of "the alliance is gay and that's why they suck" then I would have a different opinion.
On October 28 2011 18:43 Mentalizor wrote: To me it's kindda simple... This is in no way a rant on homosexuals. So I'd take no offense at all. A poor choise of words - that's all... Should Blizzard play this? Probably not, but you know what they say about hindsight?
That's like if I said, "well he called them all a bunch of dirty niggers; it was in no way a rant on black people, just referring to a common stereotype we all understand."
The fact that that word continues to remain present in any community makes me sad, even if it is just a word. And it's not even because of it in itself. It's because the community as a generalization sees no problem with it. There's debate over the word nigger now because time has passed and we recognize it for what it was at the time and that it's really non-funtional anymore and shouldn't be offensive because it's not used as such but people shouldn't be afraid of it.
Faggot, and calling someone or referring to anything in that sort of sense..."o well it's just a word". no, it's really not. and what you're doing isn't remotely acceptable. the fact that you (not YOU the person I'm responding to, but the generalized community) don't remotely see that or even attempt to just disappoints me, and is another thing I really don't like about the gaming community.
What a lame thread. Corpsegrinder was merely taking the piss! How can you not see that? He was probably a little drunk at the time, he fucking loves WoW with a passion and happens to be a death metal singer, what did you think he'd say?
The people who find an issue when there isn't one are the problem, you're making shit out of nothing. Anyway, Corpsegrinder <3
This is Cannibal Corpse you're talking about... If corpsegrinder didnt swear every 3rd word and insult every thing i'd be disappointed.
Sure you can say 'yeah yeah, he shouldnt have to be rude/homophobic/crass for a discussion on a videogame', but these guys have built up their entire career and profession based on that. He's being interviewed for the entertainment value that Cannibal Corpse brings. They're known for their brutal imagery and their 'f all humanity' attitude.... It'd be like telling an emo kid they cant play with scissors or a hipster that the only real way to make a change in society is by getting a real job instead of drinking soy and peddling their fixies.
I get called fag or gay close to everytime I ladder ... I bet not a single of those people raging, think I'm homosexual nor are they trying to insult me by claiming I am one.
That's just not what those words means in this context. When people lose to cheese they say it was a gay strategy. That doens't mean they think the strategy likes to suck cock >_<
Besides we've already had this discussion plenty of times and it's never brought anything good with it. Just go back and read all the comments about Destiny swearing or casters using the term 'rape'. This is basicly the same thing. If you don't like a word then don't say it. Just don't have a cow when someone else does. No one cares.
there is a phrase just like that here (in my native language of course) and its used on almost everyone. its not a gay thing, it wasnt invented for them, it is not said to gays in particular. its even used as a 'joke phrase' among friends. its not a big deal.
Let's totally make a big deal out of a non-issue. Seriously, I envy people who have so little going on in their lives they have time to get worked up over this or have time to write a blog about their experiences as a "gaymer".
Would you expect anything less from Corpse Grinder... I was reading on gay gamer.net or what ever it is on the comments and absolutely everyone was saying they closed their accounts and are expecting a public explanation from Blizzard etc.
Not saying all gay people are feminists but this seems like a minority group looking for attention.
On October 28 2011 20:55 pred470r wrote: Rofl are people seriously offended because someone said "Fuck you game faction" ?
Yes...
So a guy posted this on the wow forums.
Look, I get that most Blizzard employees are hardcore horde fans. And I get I have to live with the constant favoritism by the developers and the over the top 'For The Horde' cries everywhere you look at Blizzcon. But when Samwise brought out that piece of filth from Cannibal Corpse and he was constantly like 'F' the Alliance throughout the video package and onstage, I found that offensive and rude. I get you want the factionalism, but lets face it, you have been going way to far with the favoritism we pay your salaries as well as the horde players do) and the racor and vile especially on the horde side is growing too much.
We pay you money so the alliance should be equally popular as the horde. Someone said fuck a virtual faction on stage and this is offensive! Some people really have to grow up. Getting upset because someone hates a fictional character? If somebody on a stage says fuck Dumbledore would you write an open letter? No...
While I don't think I'd consider « cocksuckers » a gay slur, (men or women of any gender or sexual orientation can perform oral sex on a male), I can see how some people could have been offended.
I also agree that it's obviously not in Blizzard's best interests to play something like this. People are calling it « first world problems », but promoting something negative in this way only makes it more interesting. See Gang culture.
The swearing doesn't bother me, and I get the idea (this probably appeals to a lot of gamers). That said, I don't think people (especially the university profs the OP talked about) should be judging the entire gaming community based on one interview. Rather, it's the choice of one of the biggest gaming companies in the world, Blizzard, to promote the video, that might merit such a decision.
This shit again, WHAT THE FUCK you guys are so annoying. You are becoming more and more like women, guess what everything does not revolve around you. OH NO someone said something that can be formed as offending, lets post everywhere anything we can find that could have a meaning ( intented to or not ) that insults us, because we are the corner of everything and the middle stage. funny enough im starting to dislike gay people just because of this.
People shit talk opposite factinons like that all the time in that game. I have no problem with Corpsegrinder doing that. In the context of the subject, wow faction questions and interview it's fine. You take his slurs out of context then yes it's an issue. That's exactly what is going on.
I cant stand political correctness and overly sympathetic stuff like this. Pussy ass whiners. Grow some balls.
Actually have met him after a gig before, he is a vulgar person but not an offensive person. There's a difference. Though I paid more attention to Alex Webster being a bass player myself.
On October 28 2011 21:46 ownyaah wrote: This shit again, WHAT THE FUCK you guys are so annoying. You are becoming more and more like women, guess what everything does not revolve around you. OH NO someone said something that can be formed as offending, lets post everywhere anything we can find that could have a meaning ( intented to or not ) that insults us, because we are the corner of everything and the middle stage. funny enough im starting to dislike gay people just because of this.
You shouldn't generalize like that. Sure, some gay people are sore, stinking vaginas that are so insecure they have to rally in the streets and write novels every time someone uses a word that they consider "offensive." But it isn't a "gay" thing. They don't have a monopoly on smelly vaginry.
Millions of people, coming from all colours and creeds, genders and sexual orientations, act like sore, stinking vaginas. Hate them instead.
On October 28 2011 21:46 ownyaah wrote: This shit again, WHAT THE FUCK you guys are so annoying. You are becoming more and more like women, guess what everything does not revolve around you. OH NO someone said something that can be formed as offending, lets post everywhere anything we can find that could have a meaning ( intented to or not ) that insults us, because we are the corner of everything and the middle stage. funny enough im starting to dislike gay people just because of this.
You shouldn't generalize like that. Sure, some gay people are sore, stinking vaginas that are so insecure they have to rally in the streets and write novels every time someone uses a word that they consider "offensive." But it isn't a "gay" thing. They don't have a monopoly on smelly vaginry.
Millions of people, coming from all colours and creeds, genders and sexual orientations, act like sore, stinking vaginas. Hate them instead.
What's with everyone acting like little girls lately and pretending EVERYTHING is somehow offensive? Regardless, the guy was obnoxious to listen to, but not offensive.
Ppl been calling Night Elves gay since day 1, I don't know why this is surprising. For the record, I'm a metalhead but I think Cannibal Corpse is complete crap. Shouldn't come as a surprise that this guy is a complete fucking idiot when his band and music are such crap.
Look, I get that most Blizzard employees are hardcore horde fans. And I get I have to live with the constant favoritism by the developers and the over the top 'For The Horde' cries everywhere you look at Blizzcon. But when Samwise brought out that piece of filth from Cannibal Corpse and he was constantly like 'F' the Alliance throughout the video package and onstage, I found that offensive and rude. I get you want the factionalism, but lets face it, you have been going way to far with the favoritism we pay your salaries as well as the horde players do) and the racor and vile especially on the horde side is growing too much.
We pay you money so the alliance should be equally popular as the horde. Someone said fuck a virtual faction on stage and this is offensive! Some people really have to grow up. Getting upset because someone hates a fictional character? If somebody on a stage says fuck Dumbledore would you write an open letter? No...
He's in a fucking death metal band. Have you ever listened to cannibal corpse? There is a guaranteed amount of "i don't give a fuck what you think" with a guy like that, anyone who doesn't see that immediately is a fool lol.
Blizzard should have known what they were getting themselves into~
On October 28 2011 23:55 Pholon wrote: I find it more offensive that the guy who isn't bruce dickinson goes "scream for meee!" wtf.
On October 28 2011 23:59 prodiG wrote: He's in a fucking death metal band. Have you ever listened to cannibal corpse? There is a guaranteed amount of "i don't give a fuck what you think" with a guy like that, anyone who doesn't see that immediately is a fool lol.
Blizzard should have known what they were getting themselves into~
Blizzard shouldn't pay pieces of shit like this guy to do a crappy job at least. There are many good musicians out there starving, while this guy gets money basically for sounding like a vacuum cleaner.
I think this is clearly an example of overly sensitive homosexuals playing the victim (and reinforcing an otherwise unfair stereotype) and sensationalizing use of a word that in some contexts can be construed as a homosexual slur. The same thing happened here, and does not seem to be an uncommon trend in the gay community. I think the key point we should observe is the changing social and contextual meaning of certain words previously considered to be degradational towards homosexuals, and how the frequent claims of discriminatory use are actually detremental to the efforts to reduce actual prejudice and discrimination in modern culture.
LOL people are being beheaded and burned alive and starving to death and generally persecuted for a litany of reasons all across the globe, and we're 15 pages offended about some WoW nerds using profanity at a concert.
Maybe you should complain to blizzard that cannibal corpse is a satan worshipping, profane and disgusting band and you are not happy that he performed at their event?
So I just watched that video and the very fact that someone is offended enough by a nerd's own enthusiasm and rage towards a specific race in WoW to make a thread about it and complain really made my day This is one of the things wrong with the internet.... everyone feels like they can complain about anything these days instead of just getting over it and moving on.
I don't play WoW or know what hte horde is but I like his passion for the game and I love metal. More power too him as far as I'm concerned.
rly some1 cracks a joke about gay and you start a thread ? is not Hitler II u know ? and even if he was not joking why would you care ? if you are ok with your sexuality or with your faction pick you should not care what others say . seriously !!!
p.s. i play wow alliance and i dont feel offended .
The main reason that Cannibal Corpse is even famous is that they can be used as a "flagship" by people who always have and always will attack death metal, rap, or whatever sort of music that has lyrics about killing people and that kind of stuff. That and being in Ace Ventura, lol. So when blizz hires a guy who makes a living writing songs about digging up rotting corpses and having sex with them, they really should know what they're doing. If they did, it's kinda cool for such a big company to hire someone like Corpsegrinder imo, and if they didn't know about it... Well, then they're just plain stupid. That's my opinion on this.
Saying things that may be offensive to homosexuals should not be regarded as "anti-gay" or "homophobic" in the first place.
I think we would be better off if people stopped actively trying to get offended by things and realized that the social stigma put on some words is nothing short of ridiculous.
This is true, don't get offended when terms are used like this: + Show Spoiler +
If you want to actually be useful, focus your efforts on condemning ACTUAL anti-gay and homophobic people. Don't just go after the words. They've lost so much of their actual meaning, you're just wasting your time. As for Blizzard's political correctness, whatever. What's political correctness ever done for anybody. It's only useful for people who wear top hats and monocles. Get with the times IMO.
Clearly a privileged class by virtue of sexual orientation. A man can be imprisoned and fined for speaking against the King of Thailand. A boy should be expelled and fined for assaulting a gay classmate (based on TL poll) Ergo, gay men are on par with the King of Thailand in popular power.
Has the world gone mad? From being reviled to being deified.
On October 28 2011 10:44 Hyuzak wrote: He was obviously joking around and having fun, how anyone can take it seriously is beyond me.
Well since it seems people got in fights due to this joke you're either very ignorant or stupid to not see how someone getting beaten up/spaton/shoved because some stupid mmorpg facist people would take it seriously.
On October 29 2011 00:24 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Clearly a privileged class by virtue of sexual orientation. A man can be imprisoned and fined for speaking against the King of Thailand. A boy should be expelled and fined for assaulting a gay classmate Ergo, gay men are on par with the King of Thailand.
Is that so? You assume those two things: 1- "speaking against" = "assaulting" 2- "imprisoned and fined" = "expelled and fined"
Logic failure.
Note: A boy should be expelled and fined for assaulting a gay classmate (according to TL poll) The results would be similar if his classmate hadn't been gay. Have you seen the video? I'm assuming people don't care that he's gay. The guy who assaulted him NEEDS to be expelled.
On October 28 2011 10:44 Hyuzak wrote: He was obviously joking around and having fun, how anyone can take it seriously is beyond me.
Well since it seems people got in fights due to this joke you're either very ignorant or stupid to not see how someone getting beaten up/spaton/shoved because some stupid mmorpg facist people would take it seriously.
Nobody got in fights due to this joke you moron. People have been victimised elsewhere in their lifetime as a result of their sexual orientation, which is what the links describe, nobody has gone "Cannibal Corpse said some bad words, I'm going to go beat up a gay!".
Your post is possibly one of the worst and most ignorant IN this clusterfuck of a thread.
On October 29 2011 00:43 WhiteDog wrote: There is a website called "gaygamers" ??? What the fuck does being gay have anything to do with being a gamer ? This blow my mind.
Plenty of girls-only teams and communities too. Local websites aimed at Europeans, others for all kinds of demographics. Millenium is a French only team - idk to what extent, but yeah.
There are way too many people in this world who get pissed off just because they can. Said people just need to shut up though. If you're getting teary-eyed because George Corpsegrinder Fisher said something that had negative connotations, then don't attend the events, don't listen to his shit, and don't watch the video. BAM - ITS LIKE IT NEVER EVEN HAPPENED.
It's not like this guy came out on stage and rallied all members of the Horde to kill the gays..
I'm offended that you believe I should be offended at anything, let alone something this ... insignificant doesn't seem like a strong enough word to describe it.
You've got some growing up to do, if you want to get anywhere in the real world. You're going to see things you don't agree with for the rest of your entire life. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it.
ill just type the top comment of the video: The fact that anyone would take this man's comments on a faction in an MMORPG seriously just shows how people WANT to be victimized.
Boo freaking hoo. It is so stupid nowadays how people can't have an opinion about anything, even something as stupid as factions in a video game without a whole bunch of people being offended. Guess what. It's not a basic right that all others must conduct their behavior in a way the doesn't offend you. So he used anti gay language. Maybe people being gay or using "gay language" offends him. Perhaps they should stop being gay to make him feel more comfortable and no longer offend him. It's people being too sensitive or looking for an excuse to get angry at people. He's a part of a death metal band. Did you expect him to be all unicorns and rainbows?
Grow some balls people. There will always be people out there talking crap about you or something you like. Your job is to have sufficient intelligence to avoid giving it importance.
You can't police the world. If that guy uses 'gay' terms to speak negatively, it's his problem, just like 'rape' is used in gaming to convey 'absolute victory' while it could offend rape victims.
You won't earn more respect by throwing a fit everytime someone says 'fucking fags' or 'faggots' to complain about something disliked, even if they're not thinking specifically about sexual orientation.
You won't change hundreds of years of taboo's through bitching. Just look at how hard black people have fought for equal rights in the US and yet I can't log on sc2 and win a single game without getting called 'fucking nigger'.
The only thing you can do is...not care. It's a case of stupid free speech, not abuse of rights. Nobody lost their job cause they were gay thanks to mr Chieftain...so...give it up
If you are gay, if you like Alliance over Horde, if you like elves or gnomes...if you're an 'emo cocksucker' or any other 'comment' by Mr. Chieftain - does it really matter?
Since when did Mr. Chieftain become the patron of your life? I didn't know he had to agree with you? I didn't know he had to be respectful? I didn't know he had to obey your way of seeing life?
JUST LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE TO OBEY HIS
Oh noes, he doesn't like gay people - we should go cut ourselves up or jump off a cliff? Wtf
If someone says something stupid or meaningless - do what anyone intelligent does and IGNORE IT
Jeez, fucking ridiculous. Homophobic people are retarded and sad, yes, but people who take them seriously are worse.
"more stupid than the stupid is he who listens to the stupid"
This is either an attempt to troll by making pseudo-intellect thread in regards of political correctness towards the gay community , in which i would say to you is to get a life
However if it isn't then this is my 2cents,what he said there while might be politically incorrect it is not a form of hate crime and it could also be argued that he merely exercise his first amendment rights to express himself. Could his choice of words the better? sure, it could always be better but the point is that he does not make those remarks because he hate the gay community or has any intention of to offends them. A reasonable person would see that he is merely showing his passion to the game or perhaps just see it as a joke.
If you want to argue the morality of it ,then please go somewhere they regulate morality and enforce compassion. Mind you most these countries that emphasize moral when dealing with day to day activity including the law actually hate/prosecute gay community, good luck.
On October 29 2011 01:23 Suvorov wrote: Grow some balls people. There will always be people out there talking crap about you or something you like. Your job is to have sufficient intelligence to avoid giving it importance.
You can't police the world. If that guy uses 'gay' terms to speak negatively, it's his problem, just like 'rape' is used in gaming to convey 'absolute victory' while it could offend rape victims.
You won't earn more respect by throwing a fit everytime someone says 'fucking fags' or 'faggots' to complain about something disliked, even if they're not thinking specifically about sexual orientation.
You won't change hundreds of years of taboo's through bitching. Just look at how hard black people have fought for equal rights in the US and yet I can't log on sc2 and win a single game without getting called 'fucking nigger'.
The only thing you can do is...not care. It's a case of stupid free speech, not abuse of rights. Nobody lost their job cause they were gay thanks to mr Chieftain...so...give it up
If you are gay, if you like Alliance over Horde, if you like elves or gnomes...if you're an 'emo cocksucker' or any other 'comment' by Mr. Chieftain - does it really matter?
Since when did Mr. Chieftain become the patron of your life? I didn't know he had to agree with you? I didn't know he had to be respectful? I didn't know he had to obey your way of seeing life?
JUST LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE TO OBEY HIS
Oh noes, he doesn't like gay people - we should go cut ourselves up or jump off a cliff? Wtf
If someone says something stupid or meaningless - do what anyone intelligent does and IGNORE IT
Jeez, fucking ridiculous. Homophobic people are retarded and sad, yes, but people who take them seriously are worse.
"more stupid than the stupid is he who listens to the stupid"
Cool. I guess 'Oh, shit, he RAPED that jew faggot' should make MLG highlight reels, then. Put it up on a goddamn pedestal for the whole world to see. Show it to your friends and family. I'm sure granny's gonna love it. They're just words, after all, right?
If these are just words, there is no reason not to release them un-censored in e-Sports PR, yet no sane organization does so. Why? Because we try to hide this facet of our community. Why? Because if it is publicly known that this is the real face of the gaming community, say good-bye to legitimacy, since this sort of thing is, culturally, completely un-acceptable.
This 'hiding' rather than 'eliminating' relies on outside sources not doing their research. It relies on no one having an economic incentive to slander the gaming community. Because if at any point a competing industry has a reason to slander e-Sports, they have plenty of ammunition.
That's why, beyond being offensive as all hell, we need to eliminate this part of e-Sports culture. We are relying on an entire industry not having enemies. And if the e-Sports industry doesn't have economic rivals, then e-Sports will have been a much smaller industry than any of us are hoping.
So, no, this doesn't have the capacity to ruin e-Sports. But if e-Sports becomes something larger than just a TL shirt, this is going to be a problem.
On October 29 2011 01:23 Suvorov wrote: Grow some balls people. There will always be people out there talking crap about you or something you like. Your job is to have sufficient intelligence to avoid giving it importance.
You can't police the world. If that guy uses 'gay' terms to speak negatively, it's his problem, just like 'rape' is used in gaming to convey 'absolute victory' while it could offend rape victims.
You won't earn more respect by throwing a fit everytime someone says 'fucking fags' or 'faggots' to complain about something disliked, even if they're not thinking specifically about sexual orientation.
You won't change hundreds of years of taboo's through bitching. Just look at how hard black people have fought for equal rights in the US and yet I can't log on sc2 and win a single game without getting called 'fucking nigger'.
The only thing you can do is...not care. It's a case of stupid free speech, not abuse of rights. Nobody lost their job cause they were gay thanks to mr Chieftain...so...give it up
If you are gay, if you like Alliance over Horde, if you like elves or gnomes...if you're an 'emo cocksucker' or any other 'comment' by Mr. Chieftain - does it really matter?
Since when did Mr. Chieftain become the patron of your life? I didn't know he had to agree with you? I didn't know he had to be respectful? I didn't know he had to obey your way of seeing life?
JUST LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE TO OBEY HIS
Oh noes, he doesn't like gay people - we should go cut ourselves up or jump off a cliff? Wtf
If someone says something stupid or meaningless - do what anyone intelligent does and IGNORE IT
Jeez, fucking ridiculous. Homophobic people are retarded and sad, yes, but people who take them seriously are worse.
"more stupid than the stupid is he who listens to the stupid"
Cool. I guess 'Oh, shit, he RAPED that jew faggot' should make MLG highlight reels, then. Put it up on a goddamn pedestal for the whole world to see. Show it to your friends and family. I'm sure granny's gonna love it. They're just words, after all, right?
If these are just words, there is no reason not to release them un-censored in e-Sports PR, yet no sane organization does so. Why? Because we try to hide this facet of our community. Why? Because if it is publicly known that this is the real face of the gaming community, say good-bye to legitimacy, since this sort of thing is, culturally, completely un-acceptable.
This 'hiding' rather than 'eliminating' relies on outside sources not doing their research. It relies on no one having an economic incentive to slander the gaming community. Because if at any point a competing industry has a reason to slander e-Sports, they have plenty of ammunition.
That's why, beyond being offensive as all hell, we need to eliminate this part of e-Sports culture. We are relying on an entire industry not having enemies. And if the e-Sports industry doesn't have economic rivals, then e-Sports will have been a much smaller industry than any of us are hoping.
So, no, this doesn't have the capacity to ruin e-Sports. But if e-Sports becomes something larger than just a TL shirt, this is going to be a problem.
You do realize the interview was aired completely censored right? Also what isn't "ruining" e-sports nowadays?
Cool. I guess 'Oh, shit, he RAPED that jew faggot' should make MLG highlight reels, then. Put it up on a goddamn pedestal for the whole world to see. Show it to your friends and family. I'm sure granny's gonna love it. They're just words, after all, right?
Have you ever heard an established caster say anything remotely close to raping jew faggots? No? Then this is a moot point. The only people using this kind of slang aren't doing it in a professional context. The video of this guy talking shit about Alliance is about 3 years old, and everybody who saw it that I spoke to thought it was the cats ass - Some famous metal dude played WoW. Nobody gave a shit that he said faggot or gay or anything.
For there to be this much backlash over an informal interview that was used to introduce the cameo is plain retarded.
Sure that dude does seem to be a little off but still, he is offending the alliance...
Is it now politically incorrect to offend a faction in a video game?!
We need to be less sensitive, if you feel offended it is really your own fault.
If your mad about the fact that he is calling them ''gay''
Then yes, i can understand that it isn't very funny hearing gay used as a curse/insult. But the word has changed over this past years. When i say something is gay, I don't mean to offend homosexuals, It's just another swear word to me.
I'm sorry if i come out as a douche, but cool down. Don't take offense and just let it go and you won't need to be mad over it!
It is his opinion, not Blizzards. Big deal. Besides it feels like a joke and role-play of a tough metal guy who likes to swear. Of all the things I never cared for this Alliance or Horde thing, it's a game, how can you be like that is beyond my understanding in the most direct sense.
Says Mordius, Undead Mage. (US beta to TBC - hardcore; 2 months of casual play in WoTLK, Cata, quit on 82)
Wow, so he once said "queer" as a word describing something he didn't like in a ranting speech in which he approximated saying the word "fucking" about 40 times a minute. Is that a smart thing to do? No. Does that make him a gay-bashing hateful person that deserves to be shot? Absolutely not. Should it ruin his career? Absolutely not.
Should you get shot for thinking such an innocent comment made in a split second should ruin his career? Absolutely. Seriously, who hasn't said "faggot" or "queer" in an offensive setting some time or another, that doesn't mean that you are a gay-bashing hateful guy that just hates gay people.
If you thought this was offensive, I'm gonna go out of a limb here and guess that you are not gay yourself but just found it offensive "for other people", and that the only reason that you think this is offensive is because you don't know anyone or have any real world experience and think everyone that says anything offends everyone. You're so busy being politically correct that you don't have any friends, probably partly because you are so politically correct too. If you are that person, fuck you.
If you want to complain about actual gay bashing, go to the "gay student gets beaten up" thread.
wow way too many people blow things way out of fucking proportion.
seriously gays need to stop being so fucking emo.
If people are not supposed to give a shit about what you do, why the fuck do you give a shit what other people do?
It works both ways, its called tolerance ... rather than being a wussy fucking cry baby that runs around spreading litigious woe whenever someone says something you dont like why not grow a pair and enjoy life?
What do you want an equivalent of white guilt? Banal.
What is really hilarious to me is that there are 2 hot threads on TL right now, both revolving around gay themed news, and both of them have been on South Park, in my opinion in awesome episodes.
I understand that not everyone likes South Park sense of humor, but people should really watch that episodes, and see how far and how absurd this things are.
I don't get why do minority groups make such big deals around such small stuff, especially in America, since that just reinforces the stereotypes (gays/black people being hyper sensitive).
Why the hell is the gay community offended? I could see why people who love Alliance would be but I cincerely cant see why anyone would be offended just because they're gay..
It was a stupid issue IMO. But I am glad that Blizzard apologized, as much as we like to pretend otherwise once you are in the spotlight you have to take into account what you say and how it can offend someone.
I mean, I don't condone this kind of stuff. But I don't think they meant to offend anyone with this. And they apologized
On October 29 2011 03:26 RevThirteen wrote: Why the hell is the gay community offended? I could see why people who love Alliance would be but I cincerely cant see why anyone would be offended just because they're gay..
Because calling the Alliance gay means that being gay is "wrong". You see the Alliance being attacked and insulted, and one of those insults is using "fag" or "gay". How does that not seem offensive to you?
Aren't there more important things out there people should be worrying about? There is a huge debt bubble in Europe, the US playing conquer the middle east, there's a war going on in Mexico that's spreading up here, the global economy is hanging on by threads, and people bitch about what some heavy metal singer from a band called Cannibal Corpse said at a gaming convention?
On October 29 2011 03:40 relyt wrote: Aren't there more important things out there people should be worrying about? There is a huge debt bubble in Europe, the US playing conquer the middle east, there's a war going on in Mexico that's spreading up here, the global economy is hanging on by threads, and people bitch about what some heavy metal singer from a band called Cannibal Corpse said at a gaming convention?
newsflash: your in the forum of a huge gaming site. go figure....
On October 29 2011 03:40 relyt wrote: Aren't there more important things out there people should be worrying about? There is a huge debt bubble in Europe, the US playing conquer the middle east, there's a war going on in Mexico that's spreading up here, the global economy is hanging on by threads, and people bitch about what some heavy metal singer from a band called Cannibal Corpse said at a gaming convention?
newsflash: your in the forum of a huge gaming site. go figure....
I was just commenting about how people seem to get so upset over little things. I have no problem with it, I just find it a little odd.
This is hilarious! I actually really, really adored WoW back in vanilla (expansions murdered it) and yeah, I played Horde because fuck Alliance. It's all in good fun! I think he's really funny to watch and I enjoy listening to his rants. Maybe it's just my nostalgia talking, I dunno.
On a separate note, anti-gay slurs? Are you serious? If we're complaining about that we might as well ban Destiny from Blizzard-sponsored tournaments because he says "faggot" all the time on his stream. Hell, my high school English teacher said "nigger" all the time, because it was relevant to Huck Finn. Doesn't mean he should lose his ability to teach.
On October 29 2011 03:40 relyt wrote: Aren't there more important things out there people should be worrying about? There is a huge debt bubble in Europe, the US playing conquer the middle east, there's a war going on in Mexico that's spreading up here, the global economy is hanging on by threads, and people bitch about what some heavy metal singer from a band called Cannibal Corpse said at a gaming convention?
That's a completely idiotic point to make. There's always something horrible in the world, should we just succumb to it and not discuss anything other than war or famine? Get off your high horse.
People are taking the alliance rivalry too damn far. It's just a fucking game. Blizzard should try to be neutral to both alliances but I get the feeling that they are too one sided (Horde)
On October 29 2011 03:40 relyt wrote: Aren't there more important things out there people should be worrying about? There is a huge debt bubble in Europe, the US playing conquer the middle east, there's a war going on in Mexico that's spreading up here, the global economy is hanging on by threads, and people bitch about what some heavy metal singer from a band called Cannibal Corpse said at a gaming convention?
That's a completely idiotic point to make. There's always something horrible in the world, should we just succumb to it and not discuss anything other than war or famine? Get off your high horse.
Seriously, this. Hey guys, I just got shot three times! Oh, stop whining, there's a war in Libya, why are you crying about some insignificant bullet wounds?
My personal take on it is similar to using any generic vulgarity to insult someone. For example, calling another guy a "bitch" isn't the same as being anti-female.
Is the video offensive? Sure. Do you have the right to be offended? Absolutely. Is it anti-gay? Highly doubt it.
Given that the context is WoW and not, say, an anti-gay rally; I'm finding it hard to be offended from anything other than his (non-directed) vulgarity.
People are taking the alliance rivalry too damn far. It's just a fucking game. Blizzard should try to be neutral to both alliances but I get the feeling that they are too one sided (Horde)
BUT! fuck WoW
Well, reading that, it's evident that the speech that the guy made was in incredibly poor taste, but then again, Mike Morhaime issued an apology for it.
This is *one* person having the courage to once again try to explain why this isn't just "offensive" speech, but is hurtful. Try having some empathy for those who's lives have had to suffer from this kind of speech.
Pretty poor account of his life - pretty sure after being raped the word shouldn't cause affliction at that point.
On October 29 2011 03:26 RevThirteen wrote: Why the hell is the gay community offended? I could see why people who love Alliance would be but I cincerely cant see why anyone would be offended just because they're gay..
Yeah, what are gay people worried about? Being beaten, ostracized, abandoned by their parents, or even killed for their sexual orientation doesn't seem like a big deal. I mean look at what alliance has to deal with! Their racials are underpowered!
I'm with you. And he is totally allowed to find it offensive if he does. Nothing wrong with that. I have or rather had a friend (we don't hang out any more) that was molested repeatedly as a child. Do you know what she remembers from the whole experience? Not the name bitch or whore or any of those other things. She remembers the music that always played in the background. Even years later when those songs came on the radio, she would get uncomfortable or moody or in a word, offended. Didn't mean that other people couldn't listen to the same music. Didn't mean that if I happened to like that music that I was somehow pro rape. And before any of you guys come in here and tell me it's different because it isn't specifically calling out rape, the band was Nirvana and the song Rape Me specifically.
I saw the clip at Blizzcon and taken in context (with all the editing and framing it around the "this guy is REALLY passionate about loving the Horde") it never even occurred to me that anything was offensive - I just figured the metal guy was joking. The Horde/Alliance rivalry has just been like a harmless school rivalry - all in jest and fun (at least to me). It seems like everyone gets offended over everything because they can't take a joke, and this is coming from someone that usually empathizes with others when it comes to racism/sexism/etc. It seems to me people are starting to link the full clip of the guy to instigate more hate when it isn't even necessary. That dude doesn't represent Blizzard in the same way any of the wackos interviewed on the news represent the station.
On October 29 2011 06:02 swarmageddon wrote: I saw the clip at Blizzcon and taken in context (with all the editing and framing it around the "this guy is REALLY passionate about loving the Horde") it never even occurred to me that anything was offensive - I just figured the metal guy was joking.
Imagine your parents abandoned you for being gay when you were 14 years old. Imagine your best friend got killed for being gay. Prejudice hurts. Imagine that asshole saying "nigger" and "jew" instead of "homo" and "faggot" Would it still sound like a joke to you?
See, this is why gay people get discriminated. They make a big deal about anything that comes up, saying that they are being discriminated and offended. Same applies to black people making a big deal about the word nigger without taking context of the conversation in consideration.
You don't see Asian people making whine threads like these because they feel 'offended' You don't see Brazilian people making while threads like these because they are hated all around the Internet.
In the end, people that complain about discrimination like this are actually 'discriminating themselves' and showing to the world that they 'need' more attention.
The guy writes songs about raping vagina's with knives and people are upset because he called alliance players faggots. And the bottom line is he wasn't even talking about gay people.
On October 29 2011 06:02 swarmageddon wrote: I saw the clip at Blizzcon and taken in context (with all the editing and framing it around the "this guy is REALLY passionate about loving the Horde") it never even occurred to me that anything was offensive - I just figured the metal guy was joking.
Imagine your parents abandoned you for being gay when you were 14 years old. Imagine your best friend got killed for being gay. Prejudice hurts. Imagine that asshole saying "nigger" and "jew" instead of "homo" and "faggot" Would it still sound like a joke to you?
Imagine he said JOYEAUX IS A FAGGOT EVERYONE GO KILL HIM!
Imagine he said ALL YOUR NAZIS OUT THERE HOLLA AND GAS THE PERSON NEXT TO YOU!
Imagine he said EVERYONE GO KILL A BLACK GUY
Imagine he said something he didn't say! Then use that against him too!
On October 29 2011 06:20 Hoon wrote: In the end, people that complain about discrimination like this are actually 'discriminating themselves' and showing to the world that they 'need' more attention.
This perfect world you are talking about, where discrimination doesn't happen, where complaining about discrimination is either mistaken or disingenuous, does not exist.
I'd love to live in your perfect world where prejudice is a non-issue, but in the real world we have gay kids getting abandoned in the streets and murdered for who they are.
Proactively changing attitudes is the fastest way to stop that.
On October 29 2011 06:28 IMABUNNEH wrote: Imagine he said something he didn't say! Then use that against him too!
The point is a racial epithet shares the same problems as one based on sexual orientation. When we don't point the problem out, the message is that hatred is ok.
Wow people really get offended by this? I mean really? He doesn't sound like a really intelligent guy but it was a pretty funny rant from a redneck dude just having fun.
On October 29 2011 06:23 Galactus52 wrote: The guy writes songs about raping vagina's with knives and people are upset because he called alliance players faggots. And the bottom line is he wasn't even talking about gay people.
I love drama whores
The issue isn't how corpsegrinder personally feels about gay people. The issue is that if a company like blizzard plays a video where a guy insults them by calling them "faggots" and everyone goes along with that like it's ok, it sends a message.
Gay children are vulnerable for a number of reasons, I will not make that worse by behaving as if despising people for their sexual orientation is acceptable.
I'm a pretty big supporter of gay rights and I personally think GLAAD and other organizations probably have better things to be mad about and bigger fights to fight but this was a huge blunder on the part of Blizzard. A corporation that big with as many different customers as they have need to stay PC, they can't pull shit like this again or it's gonna look really bad.
On October 28 2011 10:48 ddrddrddrddr wrote: The guy's expressing how hard core he is with his faction. Blizzard wasn't endorsing their views or their message, they just want to show how vehement they are about their game. If you choose to interpret it as anything actually concerning homosexuality, feel free. They more likely used the term only as derogatory terms and at most as a term to mean cravenly and not in their actual meaning of homosexuality. Replace whatever word that pissed you off with fucking and you have the same exact meaning in the right context.
Yeah. He shouldn't have said it in anticipation of the shitstorm, but the intent, in itself, seems to have been far from malicious.
On October 29 2011 06:02 swarmageddon wrote: I saw the clip at Blizzcon and taken in context (with all the editing and framing it around the "this guy is REALLY passionate about loving the Horde") it never even occurred to me that anything was offensive - I just figured the metal guy was joking.
Imagine your parents abandoned you for being gay when you were 14 years old. Imagine your best friend got killed for being gay. Prejudice hurts. Imagine that asshole saying "nigger" and "jew" instead of "homo" and "faggot" Would it still sound like a joke to you?
He would still sound like an asshole, being an asshole; regardless of the words he used. But I still wouldn't take him as being anti-black or antisemitic, just as I didn't take him as being anti-gay. He wasn't being prejudicial as far as I'm aware, just as you (presumably) aren't being prejudicial when you equate his words with the abandonment and murder of teenagers. He isn't fostering an attitude of hate, nor was he encouraging hateful acts (although apparently his partiality to a particular WoW sect is equally as egregious as his apparent anti-gayness). Of course, I find him vulgar and for that reason can't understand why Blizzard showed the video... But that's his choice, given he has freedom of speech and I don't have the right not to be offended (as I shouldn't have).
On October 29 2011 06:02 swarmageddon wrote: I saw the clip at Blizzcon and taken in context (with all the editing and framing it around the "this guy is REALLY passionate about loving the Horde") it never even occurred to me that anything was offensive - I just figured the metal guy was joking.
Imagine your parents abandoned you for being gay when you were 14 years old. Imagine your best friend got killed for being gay. Prejudice hurts. Imagine that asshole saying "nigger" and "jew" instead of "homo" and "faggot" Would it still sound like a joke to you?
As someone who spent formative years being bullied and called names to the point of some really bad depression and self esteem issues, I can attest that prejudice hurts. I can also attest that people need to learn to take things in context and pick their battles. Know what? It's a free country and people have the right to feel offended and victimized. What about all the homosexual people who watched the clip and were not offended because they realized it wasn't a direct slam against them but an unfortunate word that slipped out of the guy's mouth? Maybe they don't want to be lumped into the same category as those who complain about every tiny thing. Blizzard apologized and that wasn't enough? Maybe we should also crucify all the British people who just used slang terminology for a cigarette or meatball. This reminds me of the Penny Arcade comic people blew out of proportion.
On October 29 2011 06:20 Hoon wrote: In the end, people that complain about discrimination like this are actually 'discriminating themselves' and showing to the world that they 'need' more attention.
This perfect world you are talking about, where discrimination doesn't happen, where complaining about discrimination is either mistaken or disingenuous, does not exist.
I'd love to live in your perfect world where prejudice is a non-issue, but in the real world we have gay kids getting abandoned in the streets and murdered for who they are.
Proactively changing attitudes is the fastest way to stop that.
People getting murdered or being beaten for being gay is completely different from people getting verbally harassed unintentionally. Horde vs Alliance hate have always been about how 'masculine' Horde players are vs. how 'delicate' Alliance players are. I agree that people need to be active about discrimination, but there is a limit which the OP went too far out. You can say it is similar to that discussion about the n-bomb on Destiny's stream.
while i'm all for not allowing discrimination against gays, people have to stop making the argument that being gay is a genetic thing because there is no such proof that it is. most people use that argument as a way to justify why discrimination shouldn't occur, when in reality no discrimination should be allowed no matter what.
On October 29 2011 07:14 Gnosis wrote: But I still wouldn't take him as being anti-black or antisemitic, just as I didn't take him as being anti-gay.
The issue here is bigger than whether or not this corpsegrinder guy is anti-gay. By playing a video of him throwing the words "faggot" and "homo" around at blizzcon, Blizzard perpetuated a social norm: discrimination the basis of race and religion is not tolerated, yet discrimination based on sexual orientation is acceptable. This is a message that hurts people whether it's intended or not.
I understand there's limit where stuff gets too offensive. This wasn't there, but it's understandable that some people make complaint about it so there won't be MORE offensive stuff in the future on same kind of events. Original corpsegrinder's youtube rant is damn hilarious but suppose it can be too much for too big of an event where people still can never hear a word "fag" without exploding.
On October 29 2011 07:14 Gnosis wrote: But I still wouldn't take him as being anti-black or antisemitic, just as I didn't take him as being anti-gay.
The issue here is bigger than whether or not this corpsegrinder guy is anti-gay. By playing a video of him throwing the words "faggot" and "homo" around at blizzcon, Blizzard perpetuated a social norm: discrimination the basis of race and religion is not tolerated, yet discrimination based on sexual orientation is acceptable. This is a message that hurts people whether it's intended or not.
What hurts people is the fact that this recording has seen the light of day. The guy doing the interview with this Corpsegrinder person should've switched the mic and camera off after like 45 seconds and tell him "You know what? Forget about it. Whatever you're trying to convey is not worth recording." As a public person he should watch his language. Being all gory, metal and all doesn't mean you have to be rude off the stage too.
Recently we've had quite a discussion in Poland when Adam "Nergal" Darski (frontman for Behemoth) tore a Bible on stage. People even went to court over this but he was freed of all charges as it was deemed part of his artistic performance (and according to EU law you can't hide behind "hurting religious beliefs" in accordnance to free speech). But that's not the point. The point is that even though he can be extreme on the stage during his performances he is a really nice person when not doing it. He's been selected for a jury in one of the television's music shows (people of course raged about it because of the aforementioned Bible desacration) and what do we see there? A normal person who makes cohesive and well-structured sentences, doesn't use foul language and in general seems like a nice guy.
I guess that some people try to maintain their act when they're off the stage (vide: Laibach), which can be understandable in some cases, not so much in every case.
On October 29 2011 07:14 Gnosis wrote: But I still wouldn't take him as being anti-black or antisemitic, just as I didn't take him as being anti-gay.
The issue here is bigger than whether or not this corpsegrinder guy is anti-gay. By playing a video of him throwing the words "faggot" and "homo" around at blizzcon, Blizzard perpetuated a social norm: discrimination the basis of race and religion is not tolerated, yet discrimination based on sexual orientation is acceptable. This is a message that hurts people whether it's intended or not.
No one said discrimination based on sexual orientation was acceptable, least of all Blizzard. Was this irresponsible on Blizzards part? Sure (it was vulgar). Was it anti-gay on their part? No, it wasn't. Context makes clear there's no message to discern. If people were offended, if they didn't like the way someone spoke, then they're just going to have to get used to it like the rest of us. Personally, I'm offended (or is that disgusted?) that this has received the response it has. I don't see a reason to complain: what offends me probably won't offend someone else.
I dont believe 99% of gays (me included) are offended by a metal singer using bad language. Is it in very poor taste? Yes, but that is people are allowed to be idiots and we all deal with much more personal and severe cases of this behavior daily. The issue is that there was a moment where it seemed like BLIZZARD condoned this. The apology is enough for me but this is strike one.
On October 29 2011 07:58 Ouga wrote: I understand there's limit where stuff gets too offensive. This wasn't there, but it's understandable that some people make complaint about it so there won't be MORE offensive stuff in the future on same kind of events. Original corpsegrinder's youtube rant is damn hilarious but suppose it can be too much for too big of an event where people still can never hear a word "fag" without exploding.
It should be offensive. When a word like "nigger" is taboo, everyone knows it. That's important because when kids are growing up and learn that "nigger" is a taboo word, they also learn that racism is unacceptable. When Blizzard, at Blizzcon, portrays as acceptable using the word "faggot" the way corpsegrinder did, it sends the opposite message (whether or not the guy in the video or blizzard meant to).
On October 29 2011 07:58 Ouga wrote: I understand there's limit where stuff gets too offensive. This wasn't there, but it's understandable that some people make complaint about it so there won't be MORE offensive stuff in the future on same kind of events. Original corpsegrinder's youtube rant is damn hilarious but suppose it can be too much for too big of an event where people still can never hear a word "fag" without exploding.
It should be offensive. When a word like "nigger" is taboo, everyone knows it. That's important because when kids are growing up and learn that "nigger" is a taboo word, they also learn that racism is unacceptable. When Blizzard, at Blizzcon, portrays as acceptable using the word "faggot" the way corpsegrinder did, it sends the opposite message (whether or not the guy in the video or blizzard meant to).
Just to put this out there: I never learned that racism was unacceptable through knowing that certain words were taboo. I learned that racism was unacceptable through being taught about human rights and dignity, and that because racism was unacceptable so were certain words (although it still seems to be taken for granted that my use of particular words necessarily entails my being racist, which isn't the case).
Yeah, what are gay people worried about? Being beaten, ostracized, abandoned by their parents, or even killed for their sexual orientation doesn't seem like a big deal. I mean look at what alliance has to deal with! Their racials are underpowered!
Yea, because that's what this guy stands for. Hey, you know what, people of my (racism/sexuality/whatever) are getting beaten somewhere, so I'm gonna shout at a wall mart greeter because he was grumpy, doesn't he know how much people with a similarity to me somewhere suffer because of something? What an asshole. How dare he be so insensitive.
By the way, I hope everyone crying here realises that during Blizzcon, the video segment was censored. I repeat, the words were not heard or broadcast on stage at all. They were just found in the full length video
On October 29 2011 08:06 Gnosis wrote: No one said discrimination based on sexual orientation was acceptable, least of all Blizzard. Was this irresponsible on Blizzards part? Sure (it was vulgar). Was it anti-gay on their part? No, it wasn't.
I never accused blizzard of SAYING sexual discrimination was acceptable. I accused them of perpetuating a social norm that makes me uncomfortable.
We all know that no one at blizzard would have played the video if the guy called alliance players "niggers" or "spics." Yet when he calls them "faggot" and "homo" it gets played at blizzcon. Why? The obvious implication is that to the people who decided to play this video, "faggot" is tolerable while "nigger" is not.
We all know that no one at blizzard would have played the video if the guy called alliance players "niggers" or "spics." Yet when he calls them "faggot" and "homo" it gets played at blizzcon. Why? The obvious implication is that to the people who decided to play this video, "faggot" is tolerable while "nigger" is not.
By the way, I hope everyone crying here realises that during Blizzcon, the video segment was censored. I repeat, the words were not heard or broadcast on stage at all. They were just found in the full length video
I'm just going to repeat this until people shut up about how it got played at blizzcon
There's also a big, big difference between calling someone a "faggot" and calling someone a "nigger" or "spic", wanna know why? Because of the magic of language, words change over time, and faggot is rarely associated with homosexuals anymore (aside from when people want to feel offended again). It's just turned into a regular insult, especially on the internet where people aren't so afraid of making people with a thin skin feel offended. The other two words, on the other hand, are still solely used as a derogatory term for blacks/hispanics. You don't say "that spic!" when someone white cuts you off in traffic because it's not used as a regular insult. You should go watch this south park episode on that if you haven't already, it might teach you a thing or two.
I'm normally a really accepting guy, and I don't care about your race or sex or sexuality, but I'm having serious difficulty not developing irrational hatred for people that get offended by everything after all these posts on TL lately.
On October 29 2011 08:33 Gnosis wrote: Just to put this out there: I never learned that racism was unacceptable through knowing that certain words were taboo. I learned that racism was unacceptable through being taught about human rights and dignity, and that because racism was unacceptable so were certain words
Exactly. You learned that because bigotry is unacceptable, so are certain words. This lesson reinforces the original lesson that bigotry is unacceptable. Also, remember WHY bigotry makes certain words unacceptable: words can communicate more than we intend. By not using slurs trivially, and expressing discomfort when others do, we perpetuate an environment where bigotry is not tolerated. By doing the opposite, we suggest that bigotry is acceptable.
I can't believe so many ppl are actually offended by this. When i used to play wow i was alliance and i actually find that video pretty funny you know why? because i am reasonable guy and i understand he is just passionate about wow, he doesn't hate me because i played alliance and he doesn't hate people because they are gay. I'm so tired of these "sensitive" ppl with no sense of humor or self-esteem always making issues where there are none just stop making the world a depressing place.
On October 29 2011 08:33 Gnosis wrote: Just to put this out there: I never learned that racism was unacceptable through knowing that certain words were taboo. I learned that racism was unacceptable through being taught about human rights and dignity, and that because racism was unacceptable so were certain words
Exactly. You learned that because bigotry is unacceptable, so are certain words. This lesson reinforces the original lesson that bigotry is unacceptable. Also, remember WHY bigotry makes certain words unacceptable: words can communicate more than we intend. By not using slurs trivially, and expressing discomfort when others do, we perpetuate an environment where bigotry is not tolerated. By doing the opposite, we suggest that bigotry is acceptable.
Sure, certain words when used in context. But I don't agree that the use or non-use of certain words fosters a particular environment (necessarily). It can, but it doesn't always have to. Making the use of particular words taboo (and arbitrarily at that) is a superficial solution. I couldn't care less how most people talk, and if I disagree with some one I respect their right to talk the way they want.
By the way, I hope everyone crying here realises that during Blizzcon, the video segment was censored. I repeat, the words were not heard or broadcast on stage at all. They were just found in the full length video
i am stunned by the amount of people who think that faggot and gay have "evolved over time" into meaning something other than a slur targeted at a group. repetition doesn't dull the meaning, it only numbs us to the weight of the term. if you only feel comfortable speaking that way in certain settings, that is because that space condones that behavior, not because it is acceptable
On October 29 2011 07:14 Gnosis wrote: But I still wouldn't take him as being anti-black or antisemitic, just as I didn't take him as being anti-gay.
The issue here is bigger than whether or not this corpsegrinder guy is anti-gay. By playing a video of him throwing the words "faggot" and "homo" around at blizzcon, Blizzard perpetuated a social norm: discrimination the basis of race and religion is not tolerated, yet discrimination based on sexual orientation is acceptable. This is a message that hurts people whether it's intended or not.
Watch the video. He didn't say any of those things. Everything was bleeped out.
I have read your feedback and comments about this year’s BlizzCon, and I have also read the feedback to the apology from Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain. I’d like to respond to some of your feedback here.
As president of Blizzard, I take full responsibility for everything that occurs at BlizzCon.
It was shortsighted and insensitive to use the video at all, even in censored form. The language used in the original version, including the slurs and use of sexual orientation as an insult, is not acceptable, period. We realize now that having even an edited version at the show was counter to the standards we try to maintain in our forums and in our games. Doing so was an error in judgment, and we regret it.
The bottom line is we deeply apologize for our mistakes and for hurting or offending anyone. We want you to have fun at our events, and we want everyone to feel welcome. We’re proud to be part of a huge and diverse community, and I am proud that so many aspects of the community are represented within Blizzard itself.
As a leader of Blizzard, and a member of the band, I truly hope you will accept my humblest apology.
As a gay metalhead I have to say that if you listen to George Fisher and the most you can find to be offended about is him calling someone a Night Elf F****t then you are clearly not familiar with the rest of his work.
I think anyone who makes a big deal of this is just being a PC nutbag and trying to play the victim. Some people will get offended by anything, and make a big stink of it just to get others to listen to them for a minute.
This guy is the lead for a freaking death metal band. His band is called Cannibal Corpse. He sings about necrophilia, disembowelment, and torture. He's representing WoW in that capacity, and yet the thing you choose to be offended by is his overly vulgar/ignorant use of language towards members of the Alliance? Seriously?
You're right though, Blizzard should never present such an interview at Blizzcon unless they censor out all the offensive words. Oh wait, they did? And some overly sensitive kids decided to search the full interview on YouTube to see if there would be anything in it that offended them? And...*gasp*...they found something? It's an outrage!
Incidentally, one of the posts you linked to has nothing to do with homosexual oppression, but rather Alliance-specific oppression. This issue actually seems more important to me, if players are being taunted and spat on for simply being Alliance, that's terrible. A lot worse than a few bleeps on a screen.
On October 28 2011 10:44 Hyuzak wrote: He was obviously joking around and having fun, how anyone can take it seriously is beyond me.
The easiest way people excuse hateful language seeped in vitriol is by saying it's "just a joke". That not only tries to sidestep the issues being raised but also is an indirect way of saying "you're making a big deal out of nothing", effectively shutting down discussion.
There's a difference between walking up to someone who is openly gay and saying "fucking die, cocksucking homo!" and talking about something completely unrelated to homosexuality and gays and saying the same thing.
Words are nothing without intent, and that's what people these days are failing to understand.
On October 29 2011 11:19 Cel.erity wrote: I think anyone who makes a big deal of this is just being a PC nutbag and trying to play the victim. Some people will get offended by anything, and make a big stink of it just to get others to listen to them for a minute.
This guy is the lead for a freaking death metal band. His band is called Cannibal Corpse. He sings about necrophilia, disembowelment, and torture. He's representing WoW in that capacity, and yet the thing you choose to be offended by is his overly vulgar/ignorant use of language towards members of the Alliance? Seriously?
You're right though, Blizzard should never present such an interview at Blizzcon unless they censor out all the offensive words. Oh wait, they did? And some overly sensitive kids decided to search the full interview on YouTube to see if there would be anything in it that offended them? And...*gasp*...they found something? It's an outrage!
Incidentally, one of the posts you linked to has nothing to do with homosexual oppression, but rather Alliance-specific oppression. This issue actually seems more important to me, if players are being taunted and spat on for simply being Alliance, that's terrible. A lot worse than a few bleeps on a screen.
On October 29 2011 06:02 swarmageddon wrote: I saw the clip at Blizzcon and taken in context (with all the editing and framing it around the "this guy is REALLY passionate about loving the Horde") it never even occurred to me that anything was offensive - I just figured the metal guy was joking.
Imagine your parents abandoned you for being gay when you were 14 years old. Imagine your best friend got killed for being gay. Prejudice hurts. Imagine that asshole saying "nigger" and "jew" instead of "homo" and "faggot" Would it still sound like a joke to you?
Nice imagination, you got there son. I got called "chink" once. I got offended. I got over it. The end. But it did not end with you. And you feel hurt for me ... over what it must be like to feel hurt over a racial slur which you did not experience. You poor thing. Now give me money. That'll make me feel better.
I pity everyone who felt offended by this. I really really had to concentrate to find anything anti-gay'ish in there. From my point of view he just badmouthed the alliance and since he made fun of himself too it's an obvious joke. So stupid and Blizzard shouldn't apologize for FUN.
Anyone who's ever actually had to grow up as a closeted gay person will understand why it is hurtful when people throw around words like "gay" and "faggot" as a synonym for "bad." It is just one more reinforcement of all of the shameful, self-hating feelings that many young gay people harbor.
I understand that you probably don't mean to be offensive to gay people, but it's not all about intent. It's about the message you are sending as opposed to the one you intend to send. It's about understanding the overall effect on society of using words like this as synonyms for "bad."
I understand that from the perspective of a heterosexual person, it's tough to see why people can't just get over it and see that it's just a joke and he doesn't mean offense to gay people etc. etc., but there are kids committing suicide because of how society has taught them that homosexuality sucks and is wrong. Using words like "gay" and "faggot" as an insult definitely contribute to that in a big way, and it wouldn't kill people to be mindful of this and just use other words to express their feelings.
I'm thick-skinned enough not to get personally offended when someone calls a cheeser "gay," but this is pretty much why I'd still like to see the practice stop.
So I heard on SotG, Incontrol was making fun of the British accent. I think all the British should unite under a thread and protest this disgusting, racist behaviour by EG.Incontrol.
People will bust a nut for anything these days. I guess the recession has gotten to us all.
I couldnt watch the video provided but from what i gathered here there were not alot of anti-gay slurs. Although saying bad things about gay people is wrong and unacceptable i feel that they can't get pissed of at everything people say and sometimes they just have to take it. Things like this exists everywhere.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://british-pages-magazine.2342207.n2.nabble.com/file/n3358065/faggots.jpg)
(and sticks!). 
