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QueueQueue
Canada1000 Posts
I am all for gay rights, and have absolutely no issues with it.... However we can't go overboard with punishments solely because a persons motives for harmful actions are based on controversial reasons. It is rather sickening that people actually have these negative view towards homosexual people though... Is another person's emotional and sexual preferences really that important to you? | ||
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HawtLove
United States113 Posts
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Perseverance
Japan2800 Posts
To answer the OP's question though...I really don't think we have the manpower to have police involved everytime there is a fight at a school. | ||
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On October 31 2011 00:00 Egyptian_Head wrote: Was that meant to be an argument from authority? You are 28 and have an education and career? Are we meant to agree with you because of this? Why is it here? That is exactly why the bully doesn't need to be punished that much, bullies sort themselves out, if they don't they get sorted out quick. Wimps do not learn to stand up for themselves unless forced, that cannot happen if they are sheltered. Physical violence is not the only form of bullying. People need to learn to stand up for themselves. Better that happens in the sheltered school environment then when it could really damage them out of school. Naw, what is funny is that if the victim just keeps doing what he is doing (following the system and going to authorities) he will be fine, great even. If the bully keeps doing what he is doing then he will go to jail. Thats all there is to it. The victim in this case knows better than you apparently heh. | ||
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Egyptian_Head
South Africa508 Posts
On October 31 2011 00:54 Velocirapture wrote: Naw, what is funny is that if the victim just keeps doing what he is doing (following the system and going to authorities) he will be fine, great even. If the bully keeps doing what he is doing then he will go to jail. Thats all there is to it. The victim in this case knows better than you apparently heh. Seriously that is your solution? Go to the authorities? As I said not all forms of bullying are physical, the police don't care if someone is giving you a hard time. Do you live in the real world? The sooner people learn to defend themselves (not just from physical violence) the better. Most people learn this during high school. Good luck making for boss's life difficult over every small thing some jerk co-worker does, same with the police. People are just going to laugh at you. | ||
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theBALLS
Singapore2935 Posts
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
On October 31 2011 00:52 Perseverance wrote: To answer the OP's question though...I really don't think we have the manpower to have police involved everytime there is a fight at a school. If police were involved for every fight there would be FAR fewer fights. Furthermore, if you want choose one set of the population to have police ignore I would not choose children. I would let adults fight it out and police the children before I would expect children to resolve their own differences while allocating police and courts towards adults. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On October 31 2011 01:12 Egyptian_Head wrote: Seriously that is your solution? Go to the authorities? As I said not all forms of bullying are physical, the police don't care if someone is giving you a hard time. Do you live in the real world? The sooner people learn to defend themselves (not just from physical violence) the better. Most people learn this during high school. Good luck making for boss's life difficult over every small thing some jerk co-worker does, same with the police. People are just going to laugh at you. Pretty sure there's a difference between some jerk coworker giving you a hard time, and someone twice your size pouncing you and punching you in the back of the head. This isn't a case of simple name-calling or even a tiny scuffle, have you even seen the video? As for bullying building character, I truly feel sorry for your children. When the school calls to tell you that your son is in the hospital receiving treatment for a concussion because some ape decided to pick a fight with him, I'd like to see you visit his bedside and tell him "Eh, shit happens. Learn to stick up for yourself." Or if your daughter is publically assaulted and humiliated by her peers, you just tell her "No problem honey, life goes on." For a child who is still emotionally immature, these are extremely traumatizing events, and as I can personally attest to, they do not make you a better person in any way. All they do is cause you to withdraw yourself and become less willing to let people into your life during the critical high school/college years. It is not character-building to have a traumatic and painful childhood, spending each morning depressed and afraid to go to school. I would be a much better person if nothing like that had ever happened to me. | ||
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Darclite
United States1021 Posts
On October 31 2011 01:12 Egyptian_Head wrote: Seriously that is your solution? Go to the authorities? As I said not all forms of bullying are physical, the police don't care if someone is giving you a hard time. Do you live in the real world? The sooner people learn to defend themselves (not just from physical violence) the better. Most people learn this during high school. Good luck making for boss's life difficult over every small thing some jerk co-worker does, same with the police. People are just going to laugh at you. I know, so outrageous! Someone getting assaulted going to the authorities!? Unheard of! You said that the victim needs to be taught a lesson and the bully should be fine and likened someone getting the shit beat out of them because they're gay to an annoying coworker. Please don't have children. Or interact with people. | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On October 30 2011 08:21 meatbox wrote: The child will learn nothing from going to prison, prison is for adults not children, to think 70% believe a charge should be laid...  The mother of the victim said it wasn't a hate crime and wanted the administration to be fired for not dealing with the issue earlier, there were warning signs. Counselling would be the best outcome for both parties, any criminal sentence would limit career choices, all Government jobs require no criminal records, and a future of petty crimes, being in and out of prison is the most likely future if the forumites of TL have their way... If a random person went up to you on the street and hit you in the head until you passed out would "counseling" be an appropriate punishment? Then why does a 15 year old child deserve less protection from violence under the law than an adult man? Beating a child is a _worse_ crime than beating an adult not the other way around, the perpetrator should definitely face criminal charges and be punished to whatever extent american law usually punishes cretins who beats innocent people senseless for the fun of it. | ||
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Egyptian_Head
South Africa508 Posts
On October 31 2011 02:16 Darclite wrote: I know, so outrageous! Someone getting assaulted going to the authorities!? Unheard of! You said that the victim needs to be taught a lesson and the bully should be fine and likened someone getting the shit beat out of them because they're gay to an annoying coworker. Please don't have children. Or interact with people. Straw man. I have not said people who are assaulted should not go to the authorities. I said if they are school children 3 day suspension is enough. Yes the bully should be fine, people for the most part grow out of being bullies, if they don't (physical violence) when they leave school they will be dealt with. Yes, the victims of bulling do have a lesson to learn, are you really arguing that they shouldn't learn to defend themselves? No, I never said annoying co-worker, I said a co-worker who is bullying you through non physical (violent) means. Yes this is bullying just like getting beaten up. Sure one is more serious than the other hence getting the school involved and getting suspended. He went to far so he was suspended, if it was just a punch or to detention would be fine. Because the bullying co-worker is less serious there is no reason to get authorities involved. Serious = get authorities involved Not as serious = don't get authorities involved Where is this monstrous problem which should cause me to avoid all human interaction? | ||
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Br3ezy
United States720 Posts
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Darclite
United States1021 Posts
On October 31 2011 02:37 Egyptian_Head wrote: A little bullying builds character. It helps people who have had there parents coddle them there entire lives learn to deal with their problems themselves. It is not the bully that needs dealing with, for the most part they grow out of it, it is the kid who cannot learn how to defend themselves that need to be looked at. Wimps do not learn to stand up for themselves unless forced, that cannot happen if they are sheltered. Seriously that is your solution? Go to the authorities? The sooner people learn to defend themselves the better. Most people learn this during high school. Good luck making for boss's life difficult over every small thing some jerk co-worker does, same with the police. People are just going to laugh at you. On October 31 2011 02:37 Egyptian_Head wrote: Straw man. I have not said people who are assaulted should not go to the authorities. I said if they are school children 3 day suspension is enough. Yes the bully should be fine, people for the most part grow out of being bullies, if they don't (physical violence) when they leave school they will be dealt with. Yes, the victims of bulling do have a lesson to learn, are you really arguing that they shouldn't learn to defend themselves? No, I never said annoying co-worker, I said a co-worker who is bullying you through non physical (violent) means. Yes this is bullying just like getting beaten up. Sure one is more serious than the other hence getting the school involved and getting suspended. He went to far so he was suspended, if it was just a punch or to detention would be fine. Because the bullying co-worker is less serious there is no reason to get authorities involved. Serious = get authorities involved Not as serious = don't get authorities involved Where is this monstrous problem which should cause me to avoid all human interaction? You are dismissing everyone who is bullied as "wimps" and "sheltered" and you call bullying a character building exercise, indicate that going to authorities is an overreaction for an assault (the way you wrote it made it sound like you meant in general, not just in this case), and say that the bully is less of a problem than the victim. The bolded part seriously highlights some ignorance. A kid gets beat up and he should learn the lesson that it's his fault for not being strong enough to defend himself? Or should he learn that people suck and shouldn't be near them so it doesn't happen again? Or that he will magically gain the strength to defend himself from a brute who attacks him because he's gay? There's a reason we made punishments for people assaulting each other. If your daughter got raped, would you say that she shouldn't go to authorities or press charges because she needs to learn a lesson? If your son was beaten by 4 other kids, would you say that he should get over it and learn to take them all on by himself rather than pushing for the other kids to be punished? If you met the kid who was beaten in the video (which I'd be surprised if you watched and still held your opinion), would you tell him "it is the kid who cannot learn how to defend themselves that need to be looked at" and "A little bullying builds character. The sooner people learn to defend themselves the better." Also, be more specific with what you are saying if I am misunderstanding you. I think your argument has more content in your head than you are writing down. | ||
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Crushgroove
United States793 Posts
addendum: I don't understand the point of the hate-crime argument. He's being punished for beating someone up. Beating someone up is against the rules. What does it matter what was going on in his head when he did it? Why do we need to legislate against someone's THOUGHTS and MOTIVATIONS when we already have laws against the action? Not anyone's place IMO. Stop making such a big deal out of a kid getting beat up, just because of the reason behind it. People are protected from being beat up. Whether you're black, white, gay, straight, male, female, you can't get beat up for any reason without someone committing a crime/rule violation depending on setting and age, so who cares WHY you were getting beat up. TL;DR: All crimes are hate-crimes, quit making this a big deal. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On October 31 2011 03:35 Crushgroove wrote: Not really that bad... Compare that to stories from Islamic countries where whole classrooms of girls are allowed to burn alive because rescue workers "shouldn't see the girls unless they are covered up"... So a kid got beat up because other kids didn't like something about him... Hasn't this been going on for pretty much ever? "You're a nerd, Imma kick your ass" really isn't any different from "You're gay, I'm going to kick your ass". addendum: I don't understand the point of the hate-crime argument. He's being punished for beating someone up. Beating someone up is against the rules. What does it matter what was going on in his head when he did it? Why do we need to legislate against someone's THOUGHTS and MOTIVATIONS when we already have laws against the action? Not anyone's place IMO. Stop making such a big deal out of a kid getting beat up, just because of the reason behind it. People are protected from being beat up. Whether you're black, white, gay, straight, male, female, you can't get beat up for any reason without someone committing a crime/rule violation depending on setting and age, so who cares WHY you were getting beat up. TL;DR: All crimes are hate-crimes, quit making this a big deal. What a sick and morbid world you live in Just because there are worse stuff doesnt mean this isn't a serious issue, what the fuck dude | ||
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Egyptian_Head
South Africa508 Posts
On October 31 2011 03:14 Darclite wrote: You are dismissing everyone who is bullied as "wimps" and "sheltered" and you call bullying a character building exercise, indicate that going to authorities is an overreaction for an assault (the way you wrote it made it sound like you meant in general, not just in this case), and say that the bully is less of a problem than the victim. The bolded part seriously highlights some ignorance. A kid gets beat up and he should learn the lesson that it's his fault for not being strong enough to defend himself? Or should he learn that people suck and shouldn't be near them so it doesn't happen again? Or that he will magically gain the strength to defend himself from a brute who attacks him because he's gay? There's a reason we made punishments for people assaulting each other. If your daughter got raped, would you say that she shouldn't go to authorities or press charges because she needs to learn a lesson? If your son was beaten by 4 other kids, would you say that he should get over it and learn to take them all on by himself rather than pushing for the other kids to be punished? If you met the kid who was beaten in the video (which I'd be surprised if you watched and still held your opinion), would you tell him "it is the kid who cannot learn how to defend themselves that need to be looked at" and "A little bullying builds character. The sooner people learn to defend themselves the better." Also, be more specific with what you are saying if I am misunderstanding you. I think your argument has more content in your head than you are writing down. If you are getting bullied chances are you are what society has deemed a wimp or sheltered, there are exceptions to everything in life but all the same. It depends on how serious the assault is, legally tweaking someones nose can be assault, breaking someones are can also be. There is no hard line where the authorities should be involved in my book, make that decision yourself. Schools are not only there to teach maths geography etc. but also how to socialize, how to interact with other people, in this area the bully is really not the problem, his behavioral problem will be solved one way or the other, the guy being picked on however his problem will not sort itself out. It is in that context that I mean the bully is less of a problem. Of course the one committing violence is worse than the one who doesn't know how to deal with it, that goes without saying. The bolded part I maintain is fine. It is a problem if people just let themselves be picked on. It is a problem with how they interact with others, it is not healthy. I never said that the kid should learn to avoid people or that it is there own fault, I only said that the kid should learn to defend himself (not necessarily through violence, proper social skills are normally good enough). The kid just needs some life skills. Once again you are saying stuff I have not said. I have said in the very post you quoted that if it is serious you should go to the authorities. I just think for beating someone up 3 days is enough. Maybe I should explain that. Kids don't care if they are suspended, its time off school so more than that is pointless. Expulsion serves no purpose. The kid is a minor, his brain has not properly developed yet, the police cannot do shit unless it is really serious. 3 day suspension is the best you can do in most cases. Whats more most cases 3 days is all it deserves anyway. I did watch the video, we have all see that in real life anyway, it is not anything special To deal with your example Raped daughter - sounds serious, go to authorities like I have said. Besides rape != bullying Kid beat up 4 to 1 - Yes kid should learn to stand up for himself. However if they do anything serious contact the authorities like I have said. I don't see why the number of people make a difference to wht my reaction should be. If I met the kid I would tell him exactly what I have told you. Everyone has been bullied in some way or another before, learning to deal with it is just part of life and a necessary part I think. | ||
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
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Egyptian_Head
South Africa508 Posts
On October 31 2011 04:09 Roflhaxx wrote: I am almost certain that the boy probably acts really gay at school as a reason for this. Because coming from experience gay people tend to just be ignored (still bullying tho) but not beaten like this. I drew this conclusion from the way the boy talked, it was more gay than the people from Fab 5...lol so I would not be surprised if he probably walks like a "model" or something as well. Not that I am trying to justify what the assaultant did I am just trying to say that it may have been partly his fault for acting really gay. It is the girls fault for being raped because she was wearing a short skirt. Its just not a good argument. Ninja edit Sure the guy would have to know he is more likely to get beaten up by acting gay but that does not make it his fault. | ||
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Crushgroove
United States793 Posts
On October 31 2011 04:15 Egyptian_Head wrote: It is the girls fault for being raped because she was wearing a short skirt. Its just not a good argument. Ninja edit Sure the guy would have to know he is more likely to get beaten up by acting gay but that does not make it his fault. Its a fine argument. People get beaten up for acting like idiots. Is there evidence that every single gay student at the school has also been beaten up? No. They probably keep it to themselves. And again, the motives of the beating shouldn't matter... beating people is wrong. Kids got suspended for bullying/beating someone up. The kid happened to be gay. Still don't understand... kids fight all the time. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On October 30 2011 22:42 Egyptian_Head wrote: A little bullying builds character. Can we all stop acting so shocked that someone punched someone else a few times. It happens everyday in nearly every school in the world. And you know what most of the time it is completely harmless, it helps people who have had there parents coddle them there entire lives learn to deal with their problems themselves. Sure some people are beyond hope and kill themselves and we should watch out for these people and help them, but most people learn how to deal with this stuff and become better people for the experience. Seriously 3 days is fine. It is not the bully that needs dealing with, for the most part they grow out of it, it is the kid who cannot learn how to defend themselves that need to be looked at. If they cannot learn then what is going to happen when they leave school? People are just going to walk all over them for the rest of there life. But from the poll in the beginning it is clear this forum is filled with people who never were able to deal with there bullies. That or they are overly sensitive. Oh shut up, that was anything but harmless. You think getting PUMMELED in the face multiple times builds character? You're an idiot. Would you say the same thing if it was a girl getting pummeled? I highly doubt it. For many gay people, their mentality is completely different. They have no intention of being an alpha or even a beta male. To say "it builds character" is completely absurd - especially concerning the conditions of the situation. I've personally beaten other people up, and had the shit absolutely beaten out of me (at one point me and 2 friends were jumped by 8 other guys, no chance, just destroyed). So I would hardly call myself being oversensitive when it comes to this. On October 31 2011 04:09 Roflhaxx wrote: I am almost certain that the boy probably acts really gay at school as a reason for this. Because coming from experience gay people tend to just be ignored (still bullying tho) but not beaten like this. I drew this conclusion from the way the boy talked, it was more gay than the people from Fab 5...lol so I would not be surprised if he probably walks like a "model" or something as well. Not that I am trying to justify what the assaultant did I am just trying to say that it may have been partly his fault for acting really gay. The ignorance in this thread is astounding. Maybe it's just because I live in California, and am thus surrounded by a ton of gay openly gay people. Many cannot seem to help how they act, whether they originally developed their speech like that intentionally or not. I personally know two guys that act like drama queens, have a voice just as feminine if not worse, and are HORRIFIED of being classified as gay - one even had a fake girlfriend for 3 months last year. He's obviously gay, everyone knows it, but we make sure not to say anything because he's just so unaccepting of it. And we're positive, as in, we've seen him bring over a guy before and hook up with him. But he's only let an incredibly small people know, and he only let them know after he had them as roommates. On October 31 2011 04:19 Crushgroove wrote: Its a fine argument. People get beaten up for acting like idiots. Is there evidence that every single gay student at the school has also been beaten up? No. They probably keep it to themselves. And again, the motives of the beating shouldn't matter... beating people is wrong. Kids got suspended for bullying/beating someone up. The kid happened to be gay. Still don't understand... kids fight all the time. | ||
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