On October 26 2011 18:37 kazie wrote: oh the hypocrisy. do these shark lovers know this is exactly what vegetarians think of the whole meat industry? ramsay must be faking disgust in that video cuz i doubt he's that stupid
One step at a time bro. You can't call someone a hypocrite for being willing to stake a step towards a more sustainable and ethical world.
This is pretty blatantly wasteful and by now quite exposed to the general public. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the meat industry the entire animal is utilized better than the dead sharks are.
On October 26 2011 18:37 kazie wrote: oh the hypocrisy. do these shark lovers know this is exactly what vegetarians think of the whole meat industry? ramsay must be faking disgust in that video cuz i doubt he's that stupid
One step at a time bro. You can't call someone a hypocrite for being willing to stake a step towards a more sustainable and ethical world.
This is pretty blatantly wasteful and by now quite exposed to the general public. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the meat industry the entire animal is utilized better than the dead sharks are.
Nothing is wasted in nature. There's plenty of organisms that feed on the shark's body.
I don't have a problem if they catch whole shark and use it as whole. As long as it doesn't get endangered of-course. But taking fin and throwing it back in water is just cruel and I don't approve that.
On October 26 2011 18:37 valheru wrote: Fine by me I hate all seafood....and the method of harvesting is unethical (throwing them back alive without fins, is how I understand it)
In a way I agree it seems pretty horrible but at the same time, how much difference is it really between doing that and letting ordinary food fish die slowly on a boat? The only difference I can see is that you are not using the whole shark as food which is a seperate point to the issue.
On October 26 2011 18:41 T.O.P. wrote: It's an example of the majority infringing on the rights of the minority. The law unfairly targets people of Chinese descent by banning one of their cultural traditions.
Merely being a cultural tradition is not a strong enough criterion for it to be allowed. It's not hard to imagine a cultural tradition that is clearly not acceptable in the modern world.
We have to all be willing to coexist in the world, and if the majority believes strongly in preserving the environment then it's unreasonable to not accept that.
I'm Chinese and I think it's a good thing to ban shark fin. Yeah it's a delicacy but honestly it tastes like nothing. It's just texture. Sharks aren't going to grow back a fin from getting it loped off of them. I'm sure business owners are disappointed, angry, upset about it since there's money in it but in the long run it's better to ban it. Not sure if it could be sustainable but I don't even think finning is regulated in anyway.
On October 26 2011 18:37 kazie wrote: oh the hypocrisy. do these shark lovers know this is exactly what vegetarians think of the whole meat industry? ramsay must be faking disgust in that video cuz i doubt he's that stupid
Not only is this wasteful, but this is very bad for a marine ecosystem. The shark plays a key roll in maintaining the predator/prey balance. They are even used to gauge the health of a certain region by how healthy the shark population is.
No "delicacy" should be made a higher priority over keeping our already declining ocean foodsource healthy.
In a joking note, i hear it tastes like crap too. HA
On October 26 2011 18:37 kazie wrote: oh the hypocrisy. do these shark lovers know this is exactly what vegetarians think of the whole meat industry? ramsay must be faking disgust in that video cuz i doubt he's that stupid
One step at a time bro. You can't call someone a hypocrite for being willing to stake a step towards a more sustainable and ethical world.
This is pretty blatantly wasteful and by now quite exposed to the general public. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the meat industry the entire animal is utilized better than the dead sharks are.
Nothing is wasted in nature. There's plenty of organisms that feed on the shark's body.
That is true, but the balance is still upset. I don't have enough scientific knowledge to pursue this line of argument, but I do know of plenty of examples where human intervention has destroyed an ecosystem and nature did not "work itself out".
Part of what a democracy is supposed to do is listen to the wishes of the people. The people, in this case, decided that they did not like shark fin, and wanted it outlawed. Yes, it sucks for a minority (even if the minority was 40%!- I don't know the actual numbers, example)
If the method of fin harvesting is really as unethical as they say it is, then I'm all for the ban.
I don't know how much of a "tradition" shark fin actually is for Chinese people. It's basically one of those expensive delicacies of which there are a ton of.
On October 26 2011 18:37 kazie wrote: oh the hypocrisy. do these shark lovers know this is exactly what vegetarians think of the whole meat industry? ramsay must be faking disgust in that video cuz i doubt he's that stupid
One step at a time bro. You can't call someone a hypocrite for being willing to stake a step towards a more sustainable and ethical world.
This is pretty blatantly wasteful and by now quite exposed to the general public. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the meat industry the entire animal is utilized better than the dead sharks are.
Nothing is wasted in nature. There's plenty of organisms that feed on the shark's body.
That is true, but the balance is still upset. I don't have enough scientific knowledge to pursue this line of argument, but I do know of plenty of examples where human intervention has destroyed an ecosystem and nature did not "work itself out".
Same thing happened for the wolf for its pelt, and that people thought they were scary.
Here is a good read on sharks for you "culture preservers" : + Show Spoiler +
On October 26 2011 18:17 Sasquatch wrote: I have no problem with people wanting to eat shark fin soup, but currently it is being harvested in a completely insane and unsustainable manner. Greed tends to ruin any good thing.
For reference, here's a piece Gordon Ramsay did on shark fin harvesting:
personally, i really dislike the taste of shark fin's soup and don't have it even when its served in weddings (its almost tradition to have it in wedding banquets here), for animal cruelty and all, but the video is terribly insulting to my culture. It might taste of nothing to you, but its still a delicacy here.
i really don't think they should ban it. Maybe educating people about its effects and encourage people to have it only once in a while if they really have to eat it would be better. there's even like "mock" shark fin's soup here in Singapore i think.
I don't think many people here know about sharks being endangered by this at all.
As hard as it is to deny someone their culture, I think anyone who is sufficiently self-aware should be able to realize when their culture is silly and has a significant negative impact on society. I have little tolerance for people who are too ignorant to honestly assess their own culture.
I have no doubt that their are certain cultural things I do which are objectively silly, but I am perfectly willing to acknowledge that (if pointed out). Everyone should be willing to do the same. I expect it of anyone inhabiting the earth.
On October 26 2011 18:58 Skullflower wrote: Good, ban it. From my understanding it actually tastes like nothing and is more of a status symbol than anything.
Yeah that's the funny part, that it is essentially a status symbol. It just shows you that people will do anything to get a higher social standing, regardless of whether the act is pleasurable in and of itself.
Good ban in my opinion. Even if some Chinese like to have it, you just can't accept every minority tradition just because it's a tradition. If you let Chinese eat shark fin, you have to let Korean eat dogs, let Muslims decapitate goats for Eid El Fitr, etc.
I can totally understand that in a Western Country the majority doesn't want to see skinned baby dogs on the butcher's stall, or alive goats before Eid El Fitr, so it makes sense not having shark fin sold in fish shops.
edit : I realize I could have picked more extreme examples. What about polygamous cultures ? What about cannibal cultures ? Are we supposed to let them do whatever they want just because of traditions ?
On October 26 2011 18:41 T.O.P. wrote: It's an example of the majority infringing on the rights of the minority. The law unfairly targets people of Chinese descent by banning one of their cultural traditions.
Merely being a cultural tradition is not a strong enough criterion for it to be allowed. It's not hard to imagine a cultural tradition that is clearly not acceptable in the modern world.
We have to all be willing to coexist in the world, and if the majority believes strongly in preserving the environment then it's unreasonable to not accept that.
I agree, but there must be a sentiment of sensitivity when dealing with cultural traditions as well. A lot of the posts here do not reflect that at all. Posts like 'Good, ban it', or 'Ban it, greed' etc are not ways to bring about smooth change which cares about the people involved.
On October 26 2011 18:17 Sasquatch wrote: I have no problem with people wanting to eat shark fin soup, but currently it is being harvested in a completely insane and unsustainable manner. Greed tends to ruin any good thing.
For reference, here's a piece Gordon Ramsay did on shark fin harvesting:
personally, i really dislike the taste of shark fin's soup and don't have it even when its served in weddings (its almost tradition to have it in wedding banquets here), for animal cruelty and all, but the video is terribly insulting to my culture. It might taste of nothing to you, but its still a delicacy here.
i really don't think they should ban it. Maybe educating people about its effects and encourage people to have it only once in a while if they really have to eat it would be better. there's even like "mock" shark fin's soup here in Singapore i think.
I don't think many people here know about sharks being endangered by this at all.
I wouldn't call that insulting. Delicacy or not, that thing really does taste like nothing. For something to taste like that and cost a person and the environment that much, I would expect something much better.
On October 26 2011 19:00 Divergence wrote: As hard as it is to deny someone their culture, I think anyone who is sufficiently self-aware should be able to realize when their culture is silly and has a significant negative impact on society. I have little tolerance for people who are too ignorant to honestly assess their own culture.
I have no doubt that their are certain cultural things I do which are objectively silly, but I am perfectly willing to acknowledge that (if pointed out). Everyone should be willing to do the same. I expect it of anyone inhabiting the earth.
You only think that way because of the culture that you are brought up in. If you go to china and ask them what they think of westerners, they'll say the same thing. Westerners are ignorant people who's food make them sick.
They'll think they intelligent and self aware too.
EPT
