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the results of the polls is why i rarely ever go to teamliquid/internet/website related meet ups. i don't want to toss around the word "squares" but are you kidding me. if someone told you they smoked a joint on the weekend at the pub it would make you think negatively of them? is this the middle ages?
and no, before you ask. i don't use any drugs besides alcohol.
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On October 17 2011 13:33 UmiNotsuki wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:29 oldgregg wrote:On October 17 2011 13:22 SpaceToaster wrote:On October 17 2011 12:44 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:40 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:39 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:34 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:29 Greentellon wrote:
I know a person who is heavily alcoholic. Alcohol has been compared several times to the mildest of drugs and I have seen from front row how acholos has ruined his brain and life. Perhaps it's not all alcohols fault, but every time I see him wasted, stumbling around there unable to make a coherent thought, I pity him. I can't feel anything but pity towards him.
If I hear you mention drugs I may forgive you if you don't push the issue further, but if you keep at it or you actually whip some out, I will call the cops on the spot. Oh well, maybe I will leave the room/house first. Is that prejudice? No, it's me being smart. If you want to ruin your brain and health, go ahead. But don't drag me into your insanity. Dude, it's you being smart? HAHAHAHA. No. It's you having an irrational (and impulsive) reaction based on complete ignorance. That's quite humorous though I mean just to think you'd call the cops on somebody and negatively affect their life for a personal choice they made that does not directly nor indirectly affect yours just seems a little crazy In America, illegal drugs are illegal. It's insane, I know. But if you flaunt your drug use, you're probably going to jail, one way or another. Sorry that you don't like that. But that's the way it works. Something about crimes being prosecutable in the court of law. who said anything about morals being related to laws? please go away In America, when people break the law, we have this thing we do which we refer to as "calling the police". Equally as insane as my former post. Anyways, the police are readily available, and will report to the location you give them in very little time. They then proceed to arrest the criminals. Is it stupid to call the police when someone is throwing their drug use in your face? Maybe on your island. But here, we call that normal. That is really concerning to me. I'm not a drug user but I've been around enough to have a fairly informed opinion, and to me the absolute worst thing you can do to a regular drug user (not a dealer) is call the authorities on them, at least not as a first option. Jail time, even a brief stint with no prison sentence, tends to lead to more drug use, and from what I've seen also can create feelings of paranoia and depression that last for an extended time afterwards. Do I think you should not be prejudiced against drug users? I don't know - if you don't like drugs, then be prejudiced and don't hang out with drug users. But on the other hand, if you care about someone and they become a drug user or you find out that they use drugs, it should not drastically change how you perceive them. If you are concerned the best thing you can do is express your concern, and if that doesn't work try to get other people close to them to express their concerns as well. Of course that all goes out the window when you're dealing with an armed drug dealer or someone who is violent and on PCP/coke/crack/etc. If you feel threatened then absolutely call the police, but if you are non-threateningly offered drugs, as the original post in the quote tree seemed to mention, then calling the cops is a seriously irrational first impulse. Drug users are not out to get you or make you use drugs, and if they offer it is because they honestly (and possibly not rationally, but sometimes they are fully rational about it) think that you would enjoy them or that they would help you in some way. Getting them into legal trouble is repaying their perceived kindness by negatively influencing their lives - sometimes permanently depending on what the police find. Yet again though, if you're aggressively being pushed to do heroin (for instance) by a drug dealer that just wants another customer, that's a different story from being offered pot at a house party. You, like so many people in this thread, are lumping all drugs together and saying that they are all equally bad. This is just silly. Not all drugs harm the individual and society I would argue that it's not important whether all drugs are equally bad, or even whether all drugs are bad at all. Rather, I'd encourage you to express your opinion on whether or not it's okay to judge people based on drug use. Perhaps you think that it's okay for some drugs you think are bad, but not okay for other, less harmful drugs? Vote "other" in the poll and tell us why!
I already voted 'Yes' in the first poll, and my reason is posted further up on ths page 
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On October 17 2011 13:29 oldgregg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:22 SpaceToaster wrote:On October 17 2011 12:44 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:40 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:39 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:34 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:29 Greentellon wrote:
I know a person who is heavily alcoholic. Alcohol has been compared several times to the mildest of drugs and I have seen from front row how acholos has ruined his brain and life. Perhaps it's not all alcohols fault, but every time I see him wasted, stumbling around there unable to make a coherent thought, I pity him. I can't feel anything but pity towards him.
If I hear you mention drugs I may forgive you if you don't push the issue further, but if you keep at it or you actually whip some out, I will call the cops on the spot. Oh well, maybe I will leave the room/house first. Is that prejudice? No, it's me being smart. If you want to ruin your brain and health, go ahead. But don't drag me into your insanity. Dude, it's you being smart? HAHAHAHA. No. It's you having an irrational (and impulsive) reaction based on complete ignorance. That's quite humorous though I mean just to think you'd call the cops on somebody and negatively affect their life for a personal choice they made that does not directly nor indirectly affect yours just seems a little crazy In America, illegal drugs are illegal. It's insane, I know. But if you flaunt your drug use, you're probably going to jail, one way or another. Sorry that you don't like that. But that's the way it works. Something about crimes being prosecutable in the court of law. who said anything about morals being related to laws? please go away In America, when people break the law, we have this thing we do which we refer to as "calling the police". Equally as insane as my former post. Anyways, the police are readily available, and will report to the location you give them in very little time. They then proceed to arrest the criminals. Is it stupid to call the police when someone is throwing their drug use in your face? Maybe on your island. But here, we call that normal. That is really concerning to me. I'm not a drug user but I've been around enough to have a fairly informed opinion, and to me the absolute worst thing you can do to a regular drug user (not a dealer) is call the authorities on them, at least not as a first option. Jail time, even a brief stint with no prison sentence, tends to lead to more drug use, and from what I've seen also can create feelings of paranoia and depression that last for an extended time afterwards. Do I think you should not be prejudiced against drug users? I don't know - if you don't like drugs, then be prejudiced and don't hang out with drug users. But on the other hand, if you care about someone and they become a drug user or you find out that they use drugs, it should not drastically change how you perceive them. If you are concerned the best thing you can do is express your concern, and if that doesn't work try to get other people close to them to express their concerns as well. Of course that all goes out the window when you're dealing with an armed drug dealer or someone who is violent and on PCP/coke/crack/etc. If you feel threatened then absolutely call the police, but if you are non-threateningly offered drugs, as the original post in the quote tree seemed to mention, then calling the cops is a seriously irrational first impulse. Drug users are not out to get you or make you use drugs, and if they offer it is because they honestly (and possibly not rationally, but sometimes they are fully rational about it) think that you would enjoy them or that they would help you in some way. Getting them into legal trouble is repaying their perceived kindness by negatively influencing their lives - sometimes permanently depending on what the police find. Yet again though, if you're aggressively being pushed to do heroin (for instance) by a drug dealer that just wants another customer, that's a different story from being offered pot at a house party. You, like so many people in this thread, are lumping all drugs together and saying that they are all equally bad. This is just silly. Not all drugs harm the individual and society
That was not my intention at all, and I apologize if I came across that way. I intended to say that calling the cops as a knee jerk reaction to the presence of drugs is extremely excessive, but that you are within your rights to be morally against drug use though I myself am not. Re-reading my third paragraph I really think it does a decent job of saying that yes, police involvement is okay under certain circumstances where the drug use/presence was potentially dangerous, but that you should become well enough informed to know which situations are okay and which ones are dangerous.
In fact my list of drugs that I think should be illegal is far shorter than my list of drugs that I think should be legalized. The only drugs that I think are harmful are the few that are very addictive and very harmful to people's health, like PCP, meth, heroin, and borderline on ketamine. Everything else can be done responsibly with no harm done to others.
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Pot not the biggest deal in the world. enjoy responsibly in the comfort of your home like you would a few beers. but dont go smoking in the corner of a park when i try and take my kids out for the day.
i know two junkies and they are both vile insane unrational human beings. you dive into the world of hard chemicals then i think youre scum. no respect for yourself or anybody else.
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On October 17 2011 13:36 SpaceToaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:29 oldgregg wrote:On October 17 2011 13:22 SpaceToaster wrote:On October 17 2011 12:44 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:40 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:39 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:34 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:29 Greentellon wrote:
I know a person who is heavily alcoholic. Alcohol has been compared several times to the mildest of drugs and I have seen from front row how acholos has ruined his brain and life. Perhaps it's not all alcohols fault, but every time I see him wasted, stumbling around there unable to make a coherent thought, I pity him. I can't feel anything but pity towards him.
If I hear you mention drugs I may forgive you if you don't push the issue further, but if you keep at it or you actually whip some out, I will call the cops on the spot. Oh well, maybe I will leave the room/house first. Is that prejudice? No, it's me being smart. If you want to ruin your brain and health, go ahead. But don't drag me into your insanity. Dude, it's you being smart? HAHAHAHA. No. It's you having an irrational (and impulsive) reaction based on complete ignorance. That's quite humorous though I mean just to think you'd call the cops on somebody and negatively affect their life for a personal choice they made that does not directly nor indirectly affect yours just seems a little crazy In America, illegal drugs are illegal. It's insane, I know. But if you flaunt your drug use, you're probably going to jail, one way or another. Sorry that you don't like that. But that's the way it works. Something about crimes being prosecutable in the court of law. who said anything about morals being related to laws? please go away In America, when people break the law, we have this thing we do which we refer to as "calling the police". Equally as insane as my former post. Anyways, the police are readily available, and will report to the location you give them in very little time. They then proceed to arrest the criminals. Is it stupid to call the police when someone is throwing their drug use in your face? Maybe on your island. But here, we call that normal. That is really concerning to me. I'm not a drug user but I've been around enough to have a fairly informed opinion, and to me the absolute worst thing you can do to a regular drug user (not a dealer) is call the authorities on them, at least not as a first option. Jail time, even a brief stint with no prison sentence, tends to lead to more drug use, and from what I've seen also can create feelings of paranoia and depression that last for an extended time afterwards. Do I think you should not be prejudiced against drug users? I don't know - if you don't like drugs, then be prejudiced and don't hang out with drug users. But on the other hand, if you care about someone and they become a drug user or you find out that they use drugs, it should not drastically change how you perceive them. If you are concerned the best thing you can do is express your concern, and if that doesn't work try to get other people close to them to express their concerns as well. Of course that all goes out the window when you're dealing with an armed drug dealer or someone who is violent and on PCP/coke/crack/etc. If you feel threatened then absolutely call the police, but if you are non-threateningly offered drugs, as the original post in the quote tree seemed to mention, then calling the cops is a seriously irrational first impulse. Drug users are not out to get you or make you use drugs, and if they offer it is because they honestly (and possibly not rationally, but sometimes they are fully rational about it) think that you would enjoy them or that they would help you in some way. Getting them into legal trouble is repaying their perceived kindness by negatively influencing their lives - sometimes permanently depending on what the police find. Yet again though, if you're aggressively being pushed to do heroin (for instance) by a drug dealer that just wants another customer, that's a different story from being offered pot at a house party. You, like so many people in this thread, are lumping all drugs together and saying that they are all equally bad. This is just silly. Not all drugs harm the individual and society That was not my intention at all, and I apologize if I came across that way. I intended to say that calling the cops as a knee jerk reaction to the presence of drugs is extremely excessive, but that you are within your rights to be morally against drug use though I myself am not. Re-reading my third paragraph I really think it does a decent job of saying that yes, police involvement is okay under certain circumstances where the drug use/presence was potentially dangerous, but that you should become well enough informed to know which situations are okay and which ones are dangerous. In fact my list of drugs that I think should be illegal is far shorter than my list of drugs that I think should be legalized. The only drugs that I think are harmful are the few that are very addictive and very harmful to people's health, like PCP, meth, heroin, and borderline on ketamine. Everything else can be done responsibly with no harm done to others.
Ok yeah I did misread your post! Yea I agree with you. It all needs to be dependant on the drug and the person, ie the situation. Call the cops if they are being violent, stealing etc but not just because they are on drugs.
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depends. i know pot smokers and they're fine. hang with people if you enjoy hanging out with them. it might not be fun if they're on pcp or they just shoot h all day, but if they're just regular guys who want to smoke a blunt once in a while then it's fine by me.
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On October 17 2011 13:26 UmiNotsuki wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:18 Danglars wrote:Seen too many people hurt by continued drug use, particularly in the university setting. No, drug use is a choice and *agreed* with Prejudices such as racism and sexism are based on fallacies, such as the assumption that black people or Asians or women or even majorities are in some way inferior to other demographics because of one or more innate flaws within them. This doesn't apply to drug users because drug use is a quantifiable phenomenon that causes a noticeable decrease of perception, critical thought, and the like, making discrimination against drug users justified. . Differs from racism and sexism for reasons stated. Someone tells me they use drugs, my first thought find out why and discourage them from continued use from that point on. Exception for me is when someone is in continual, agonizing pain from a chronic disease. This is interesting. Personally speaking, I've had more than one experience in which I asked a drug user for reasons as to why they used drugs, and when I was told "because I can" I challenged them to stop because it was hurting them. I was in fact told that I was a bigot because I judged drug users without ever having used those drugs myself. I'm reminded of the American Juggalo thread in that these people practice an absurd level of acceptance. Is it really not okay to have an opinion on something (smoking pot is bad for you and should be avoided, for instance) without ever having experienced it? Doesn't that preclude democracy by saying that we can't have opinions on war unless we're veterans, can't have opinions on healthcare unless we've experienced every single option available, can't even have opinions on abortion unless we've had one?
I've heard the "because I can" argument before.
I have had very few experiences with people that are suffering from diseases that either can't be cured or leave lasting high levels of pain. If we jam somebody into the hospital on a morphine drip to cope, how is that different from the next guy using something other than morphine? I.E. legitimate medical marijuana (Not gonna get into the abuse of that system, just going in theory here). I'm not gonna soapbox any altruism for mankind, but I'll offer my discouragement ofdrug use to anybody listening to me just walking about life.
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I'm more prejudiced against people who are against any/all drugs than people who don't mind them (except for junkie scum or something).
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On October 17 2011 13:44 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:26 UmiNotsuki wrote:On October 17 2011 13:18 Danglars wrote:Seen too many people hurt by continued drug use, particularly in the university setting. No, drug use is a choice and *agreed* with Prejudices such as racism and sexism are based on fallacies, such as the assumption that black people or Asians or women or even majorities are in some way inferior to other demographics because of one or more innate flaws within them. This doesn't apply to drug users because drug use is a quantifiable phenomenon that causes a noticeable decrease of perception, critical thought, and the like, making discrimination against drug users justified. . Differs from racism and sexism for reasons stated. Someone tells me they use drugs, my first thought find out why and discourage them from continued use from that point on. Exception for me is when someone is in continual, agonizing pain from a chronic disease. This is interesting. Personally speaking, I've had more than one experience in which I asked a drug user for reasons as to why they used drugs, and when I was told "because I can" I challenged them to stop because it was hurting them. I was in fact told that I was a bigot because I judged drug users without ever having used those drugs myself. I'm reminded of the American Juggalo thread in that these people practice an absurd level of acceptance. Is it really not okay to have an opinion on something (smoking pot is bad for you and should be avoided, for instance) without ever having experienced it? Doesn't that preclude democracy by saying that we can't have opinions on war unless we're veterans, can't have opinions on healthcare unless we've experienced every single option available, can't even have opinions on abortion unless we've had one? I've heard the "because I can" argument before. I have had very few experiences with people that are suffering from diseases that either can't be cured or leave lasting high levels of pain. If we jam somebody into the hospital on a morphine drip to cope, how is that different from the next guy using something other than morphine? I.E. legitimate medical marijuana (Not gonna get into the abuse of that system, just going in theory here). I'm not gonna soapbox any altruism for mankind, but I'll offer my discouragement ofdrug use to anybody listening to me just walking about life.
Again with the lumping of all drugs together!
They're not all the same, people!
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On October 17 2011 13:36 oldgregg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:33 UmiNotsuki wrote:On October 17 2011 13:29 oldgregg wrote:On October 17 2011 13:22 SpaceToaster wrote:On October 17 2011 12:44 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:40 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:39 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:34 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:29 Greentellon wrote:
I know a person who is heavily alcoholic. Alcohol has been compared several times to the mildest of drugs and I have seen from front row how acholos has ruined his brain and life. Perhaps it's not all alcohols fault, but every time I see him wasted, stumbling around there unable to make a coherent thought, I pity him. I can't feel anything but pity towards him.
If I hear you mention drugs I may forgive you if you don't push the issue further, but if you keep at it or you actually whip some out, I will call the cops on the spot. Oh well, maybe I will leave the room/house first. Is that prejudice? No, it's me being smart. If you want to ruin your brain and health, go ahead. But don't drag me into your insanity. Dude, it's you being smart? HAHAHAHA. No. It's you having an irrational (and impulsive) reaction based on complete ignorance. That's quite humorous though I mean just to think you'd call the cops on somebody and negatively affect their life for a personal choice they made that does not directly nor indirectly affect yours just seems a little crazy In America, illegal drugs are illegal. It's insane, I know. But if you flaunt your drug use, you're probably going to jail, one way or another. Sorry that you don't like that. But that's the way it works. Something about crimes being prosecutable in the court of law. who said anything about morals being related to laws? please go away In America, when people break the law, we have this thing we do which we refer to as "calling the police". Equally as insane as my former post. Anyways, the police are readily available, and will report to the location you give them in very little time. They then proceed to arrest the criminals. Is it stupid to call the police when someone is throwing their drug use in your face? Maybe on your island. But here, we call that normal. That is really concerning to me. I'm not a drug user but I've been around enough to have a fairly informed opinion, and to me the absolute worst thing you can do to a regular drug user (not a dealer) is call the authorities on them, at least not as a first option. Jail time, even a brief stint with no prison sentence, tends to lead to more drug use, and from what I've seen also can create feelings of paranoia and depression that last for an extended time afterwards. Do I think you should not be prejudiced against drug users? I don't know - if you don't like drugs, then be prejudiced and don't hang out with drug users. But on the other hand, if you care about someone and they become a drug user or you find out that they use drugs, it should not drastically change how you perceive them. If you are concerned the best thing you can do is express your concern, and if that doesn't work try to get other people close to them to express their concerns as well. Of course that all goes out the window when you're dealing with an armed drug dealer or someone who is violent and on PCP/coke/crack/etc. If you feel threatened then absolutely call the police, but if you are non-threateningly offered drugs, as the original post in the quote tree seemed to mention, then calling the cops is a seriously irrational first impulse. Drug users are not out to get you or make you use drugs, and if they offer it is because they honestly (and possibly not rationally, but sometimes they are fully rational about it) think that you would enjoy them or that they would help you in some way. Getting them into legal trouble is repaying their perceived kindness by negatively influencing their lives - sometimes permanently depending on what the police find. Yet again though, if you're aggressively being pushed to do heroin (for instance) by a drug dealer that just wants another customer, that's a different story from being offered pot at a house party. You, like so many people in this thread, are lumping all drugs together and saying that they are all equally bad. This is just silly. Not all drugs harm the individual and society I would argue that it's not important whether all drugs are equally bad, or even whether all drugs are bad at all. Rather, I'd encourage you to express your opinion on whether or not it's okay to judge people based on drug use. Perhaps you think that it's okay for some drugs you think are bad, but not okay for other, less harmful drugs? Vote "other" in the poll and tell us why! I already voted 'Yes' in the first poll, and my reason is posted further up on ths page
Ack; this is embarrassing! o.o;
You're right, you did. And, after reading your conversation with SpaceToaster I see there's no derailment to worry about. Carry on! In reply to your opinion,
On October 17 2011 13:05 oldgregg wrote:
Of course its bad to discriminate against drug users. Not all drug users are dirty criminals, most of them are just average people who go home and smoke a joint at the end of the day
Isn't it true that the act of going home and smoking a joint at the end of the day is a decision that could possibly negatively impact them? Am I not justified in not wanting to spend time with this person because of it? More importantly, am I to trust my best friend in the arms of this person, at the risk of exposing her to drugs and allowing her to use them too? She's extremely important to me!
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On October 17 2011 13:44 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:26 UmiNotsuki wrote:On October 17 2011 13:18 Danglars wrote:Seen too many people hurt by continued drug use, particularly in the university setting. No, drug use is a choice and *agreed* with Prejudices such as racism and sexism are based on fallacies, such as the assumption that black people or Asians or women or even majorities are in some way inferior to other demographics because of one or more innate flaws within them. This doesn't apply to drug users because drug use is a quantifiable phenomenon that causes a noticeable decrease of perception, critical thought, and the like, making discrimination against drug users justified. . Differs from racism and sexism for reasons stated. Someone tells me they use drugs, my first thought find out why and discourage them from continued use from that point on. Exception for me is when someone is in continual, agonizing pain from a chronic disease. This is interesting. Personally speaking, I've had more than one experience in which I asked a drug user for reasons as to why they used drugs, and when I was told "because I can" I challenged them to stop because it was hurting them. I was in fact told that I was a bigot because I judged drug users without ever having used those drugs myself. I'm reminded of the American Juggalo thread in that these people practice an absurd level of acceptance. Is it really not okay to have an opinion on something (smoking pot is bad for you and should be avoided, for instance) without ever having experienced it? Doesn't that preclude democracy by saying that we can't have opinions on war unless we're veterans, can't have opinions on healthcare unless we've experienced every single option available, can't even have opinions on abortion unless we've had one? I've heard the "because I can" argument before. I have had very few experiences with people that are suffering from diseases that either can't be cured or leave lasting high levels of pain. If we jam somebody into the hospital on a morphine drip to cope, how is that different from the next guy using something other than morphine? I.E. legitimate medical marijuana (Not gonna get into the abuse of that system, just going in theory here). I'm not gonna soapbox any altruism for mankind, but I'll offer my discouragement ofdrug use to anybody listening to me just walking about life.
I think there's an important distinction to be made between what's right and wrong and what's acceptable grounds to discriminate against someone for. I don't see anything "wrong" with morphine and I don't see anything "wrong" with recreational marijuana, but for one reason or another there's something within me that doesn't discriminate against someone on morphine for pain and does discriminate against someone on pot because it's there.
EDIT: Sorry for the double post D:
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On October 17 2011 13:48 UmiNotsuki wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:36 oldgregg wrote:On October 17 2011 13:33 UmiNotsuki wrote:On October 17 2011 13:29 oldgregg wrote:On October 17 2011 13:22 SpaceToaster wrote:On October 17 2011 12:44 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:40 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:39 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:34 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:29 Greentellon wrote:
I know a person who is heavily alcoholic. Alcohol has been compared several times to the mildest of drugs and I have seen from front row how acholos has ruined his brain and life. Perhaps it's not all alcohols fault, but every time I see him wasted, stumbling around there unable to make a coherent thought, I pity him. I can't feel anything but pity towards him.
If I hear you mention drugs I may forgive you if you don't push the issue further, but if you keep at it or you actually whip some out, I will call the cops on the spot. Oh well, maybe I will leave the room/house first. Is that prejudice? No, it's me being smart. If you want to ruin your brain and health, go ahead. But don't drag me into your insanity. Dude, it's you being smart? HAHAHAHA. No. It's you having an irrational (and impulsive) reaction based on complete ignorance. That's quite humorous though I mean just to think you'd call the cops on somebody and negatively affect their life for a personal choice they made that does not directly nor indirectly affect yours just seems a little crazy In America, illegal drugs are illegal. It's insane, I know. But if you flaunt your drug use, you're probably going to jail, one way or another. Sorry that you don't like that. But that's the way it works. Something about crimes being prosecutable in the court of law. who said anything about morals being related to laws? please go away In America, when people break the law, we have this thing we do which we refer to as "calling the police". Equally as insane as my former post. Anyways, the police are readily available, and will report to the location you give them in very little time. They then proceed to arrest the criminals. Is it stupid to call the police when someone is throwing their drug use in your face? Maybe on your island. But here, we call that normal. That is really concerning to me. I'm not a drug user but I've been around enough to have a fairly informed opinion, and to me the absolute worst thing you can do to a regular drug user (not a dealer) is call the authorities on them, at least not as a first option. Jail time, even a brief stint with no prison sentence, tends to lead to more drug use, and from what I've seen also can create feelings of paranoia and depression that last for an extended time afterwards. Do I think you should not be prejudiced against drug users? I don't know - if you don't like drugs, then be prejudiced and don't hang out with drug users. But on the other hand, if you care about someone and they become a drug user or you find out that they use drugs, it should not drastically change how you perceive them. If you are concerned the best thing you can do is express your concern, and if that doesn't work try to get other people close to them to express their concerns as well. Of course that all goes out the window when you're dealing with an armed drug dealer or someone who is violent and on PCP/coke/crack/etc. If you feel threatened then absolutely call the police, but if you are non-threateningly offered drugs, as the original post in the quote tree seemed to mention, then calling the cops is a seriously irrational first impulse. Drug users are not out to get you or make you use drugs, and if they offer it is because they honestly (and possibly not rationally, but sometimes they are fully rational about it) think that you would enjoy them or that they would help you in some way. Getting them into legal trouble is repaying their perceived kindness by negatively influencing their lives - sometimes permanently depending on what the police find. Yet again though, if you're aggressively being pushed to do heroin (for instance) by a drug dealer that just wants another customer, that's a different story from being offered pot at a house party. You, like so many people in this thread, are lumping all drugs together and saying that they are all equally bad. This is just silly. Not all drugs harm the individual and society I would argue that it's not important whether all drugs are equally bad, or even whether all drugs are bad at all. Rather, I'd encourage you to express your opinion on whether or not it's okay to judge people based on drug use. Perhaps you think that it's okay for some drugs you think are bad, but not okay for other, less harmful drugs? Vote "other" in the poll and tell us why! I already voted 'Yes' in the first poll, and my reason is posted further up on ths page Ack; this is embarrassing! o.o; You're right, you did. And, after reading your conversation with SpaceToaster I see there's no derailment to worry about. Carry on! In reply to your opinion, Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:05 oldgregg wrote:
Of course its bad to discriminate against drug users. Not all drug users are dirty criminals, most of them are just average people who go home and smoke a joint at the end of the day Isn't it true that the act of going home and smoking a joint at the end of the day is a decision that could possibly negatively impact them? Am I not justified in not wanting to spend time with this person because of it? More importantly, am I to trust my best friend in the arms of this person, at the risk of exposing her to drugs and allowing her to use them too? She's extremely important to me!
Haha no worries mate.
In reply to your first response; Yes smoking a joint could potentially harm them, but then again so could smoking a cigarette or having a beer or eating a hamburger. Would you not want to spend time with a person who did any of these things?
As to whether you would trust your best friend in the arms of the drug user; Well that all depends on the drug. For weed, I would say it is pretty safe to trust your friend with them. All of the pot smokers I know (I used to smoke too), are normal, responsible people. There is no reason not to trust them just because they smoke weed, as for Heroin or crack I don't personally know, but I would be less inclined to trust them!
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On October 17 2011 13:32 0neder wrote:
Obeying laws, even when you disagree with them, is a respectable and right thing to do. Sports have tangential benefits of health, discipline, and hard work, along with teamwork and cooperation. Drug use generally is pleasure for pleasure's sake, and is not productive for society.
Citing alcohol/cigarette legality is a misnomer. We should ban all of them or none of them. As a matter of moral principle, I'm in favor of banning all of them, but I'm just some weirdo who knows that I don't need to get wasted to enjoy myself or relax. As a matter of freedom, I'm in favor of permitting them, but I feel this is a sad point to cede when such a large portion of society is hampered and pacified by drugs use.
In conclusion, there is prejudice against drug use, and for good reason.
This but sense people will always try to escape reality, i'm for legalizing everything but only in controlled area's sort of like a "bar" except stricter where you will be carded upon entry not just for age but for banning, so abusers can be effected banned and you can if you wanted to ban yourself from going to such places. You'd also be placed in the hands of that "bar" in which they will be responsible for what you do and thus encouraged to take care of you and not let you leave until you are in the right of mind. But that's my thoughts on how we should handle drugs from a pragmatic point of view, although i get your point form the moral standpoint which is very much the united states argument based on the united states protestant past in which if you weren't useful you wouldn't get food because you weren't working the fields or mending shit, which is the same place the where the moralities behind the pushing moves such as prohibition and even abolitionist movement both of which come from the north east part of the us.
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On October 17 2011 13:48 UmiNotsuki wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:36 oldgregg wrote:On October 17 2011 13:33 UmiNotsuki wrote:On October 17 2011 13:29 oldgregg wrote:On October 17 2011 13:22 SpaceToaster wrote:On October 17 2011 12:44 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:40 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:39 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:34 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:29 Greentellon wrote:
I know a person who is heavily alcoholic. Alcohol has been compared several times to the mildest of drugs and I have seen from front row how acholos has ruined his brain and life. Perhaps it's not all alcohols fault, but every time I see him wasted, stumbling around there unable to make a coherent thought, I pity him. I can't feel anything but pity towards him.
If I hear you mention drugs I may forgive you if you don't push the issue further, but if you keep at it or you actually whip some out, I will call the cops on the spot. Oh well, maybe I will leave the room/house first. Is that prejudice? No, it's me being smart. If you want to ruin your brain and health, go ahead. But don't drag me into your insanity. Dude, it's you being smart? HAHAHAHA. No. It's you having an irrational (and impulsive) reaction based on complete ignorance. That's quite humorous though I mean just to think you'd call the cops on somebody and negatively affect their life for a personal choice they made that does not directly nor indirectly affect yours just seems a little crazy In America, illegal drugs are illegal. It's insane, I know. But if you flaunt your drug use, you're probably going to jail, one way or another. Sorry that you don't like that. But that's the way it works. Something about crimes being prosecutable in the court of law. who said anything about morals being related to laws? please go away In America, when people break the law, we have this thing we do which we refer to as "calling the police". Equally as insane as my former post. Anyways, the police are readily available, and will report to the location you give them in very little time. They then proceed to arrest the criminals. Is it stupid to call the police when someone is throwing their drug use in your face? Maybe on your island. But here, we call that normal. That is really concerning to me. I'm not a drug user but I've been around enough to have a fairly informed opinion, and to me the absolute worst thing you can do to a regular drug user (not a dealer) is call the authorities on them, at least not as a first option. Jail time, even a brief stint with no prison sentence, tends to lead to more drug use, and from what I've seen also can create feelings of paranoia and depression that last for an extended time afterwards. Do I think you should not be prejudiced against drug users? I don't know - if you don't like drugs, then be prejudiced and don't hang out with drug users. But on the other hand, if you care about someone and they become a drug user or you find out that they use drugs, it should not drastically change how you perceive them. If you are concerned the best thing you can do is express your concern, and if that doesn't work try to get other people close to them to express their concerns as well. Of course that all goes out the window when you're dealing with an armed drug dealer or someone who is violent and on PCP/coke/crack/etc. If you feel threatened then absolutely call the police, but if you are non-threateningly offered drugs, as the original post in the quote tree seemed to mention, then calling the cops is a seriously irrational first impulse. Drug users are not out to get you or make you use drugs, and if they offer it is because they honestly (and possibly not rationally, but sometimes they are fully rational about it) think that you would enjoy them or that they would help you in some way. Getting them into legal trouble is repaying their perceived kindness by negatively influencing their lives - sometimes permanently depending on what the police find. Yet again though, if you're aggressively being pushed to do heroin (for instance) by a drug dealer that just wants another customer, that's a different story from being offered pot at a house party. You, like so many people in this thread, are lumping all drugs together and saying that they are all equally bad. This is just silly. Not all drugs harm the individual and society I would argue that it's not important whether all drugs are equally bad, or even whether all drugs are bad at all. Rather, I'd encourage you to express your opinion on whether or not it's okay to judge people based on drug use. Perhaps you think that it's okay for some drugs you think are bad, but not okay for other, less harmful drugs? Vote "other" in the poll and tell us why! I already voted 'Yes' in the first poll, and my reason is posted further up on ths page Ack; this is embarrassing! o.o; You're right, you did. And, after reading your conversation with SpaceToaster I see there's no derailment to worry about. Carry on! In reply to your opinion, Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:05 oldgregg wrote:
Of course its bad to discriminate against drug users. Not all drug users are dirty criminals, most of them are just average people who go home and smoke a joint at the end of the day Isn't it true that the act of going home and smoking a joint at the end of the day is a decision that could possibly negatively impact them? Am I not justified in not wanting to spend time with this person because of it? More importantly, am I to trust my best friend in the arms of this person, at the risk of exposing her to drugs and allowing her to use them too? She's extremely important to me!
While the morality of the decision is debatable (everyone has their own opinion) you are correct in stating that smoking pot is a decision that could negatively impact a person. There are possible legal ramifications in most counties. I think you're justified in making a decision to avoid possible harm that could come from hanging out with this person, though almost nothing can happen to you just by being around the person. You'd have to actually use drugs to get in trouble for using drugs! I would at least get to know the guy before you passed judgement on his character, though obviously his drug habits are a part of who he is - it wouldn't be fair to judge him as a whole just based on that.
What does bother me a bit is that you are trying to pass judgement for your friend on this person, but thats a little off topic. You should trust your friend to make her own decisions, even if you don't approve completely. I wouldn't strain your friendship over one facet of a guy that you don't seem to know all that well (though I don't know the whole situation, thats what I can gather from your writing). Get to know him and decide if she could do better based on all of his qualities rather than just the one that's been analyzed in this thread.
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On October 17 2011 13:56 oldgregg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:48 UmiNotsuki wrote:On October 17 2011 13:36 oldgregg wrote:On October 17 2011 13:33 UmiNotsuki wrote:On October 17 2011 13:29 oldgregg wrote:On October 17 2011 13:22 SpaceToaster wrote:On October 17 2011 12:44 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:40 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:39 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:34 Romance_us wrote:
[quote]
Dude, it's you being smart? HAHAHAHA. No. It's you having an irrational (and impulsive) reaction based on complete ignorance. That's quite humorous though
I mean just to think you'd call the cops on somebody and negatively affect their life for a personal choice they made that does not directly nor indirectly affect yours just seems a little crazy In America, illegal drugs are illegal. It's insane, I know. But if you flaunt your drug use, you're probably going to jail, one way or another. Sorry that you don't like that. But that's the way it works. Something about crimes being prosecutable in the court of law. who said anything about morals being related to laws? please go away In America, when people break the law, we have this thing we do which we refer to as "calling the police". Equally as insane as my former post. Anyways, the police are readily available, and will report to the location you give them in very little time. They then proceed to arrest the criminals. Is it stupid to call the police when someone is throwing their drug use in your face? Maybe on your island. But here, we call that normal. That is really concerning to me. I'm not a drug user but I've been around enough to have a fairly informed opinion, and to me the absolute worst thing you can do to a regular drug user (not a dealer) is call the authorities on them, at least not as a first option. Jail time, even a brief stint with no prison sentence, tends to lead to more drug use, and from what I've seen also can create feelings of paranoia and depression that last for an extended time afterwards. Do I think you should not be prejudiced against drug users? I don't know - if you don't like drugs, then be prejudiced and don't hang out with drug users. But on the other hand, if you care about someone and they become a drug user or you find out that they use drugs, it should not drastically change how you perceive them. If you are concerned the best thing you can do is express your concern, and if that doesn't work try to get other people close to them to express their concerns as well. Of course that all goes out the window when you're dealing with an armed drug dealer or someone who is violent and on PCP/coke/crack/etc. If you feel threatened then absolutely call the police, but if you are non-threateningly offered drugs, as the original post in the quote tree seemed to mention, then calling the cops is a seriously irrational first impulse. Drug users are not out to get you or make you use drugs, and if they offer it is because they honestly (and possibly not rationally, but sometimes they are fully rational about it) think that you would enjoy them or that they would help you in some way. Getting them into legal trouble is repaying their perceived kindness by negatively influencing their lives - sometimes permanently depending on what the police find. Yet again though, if you're aggressively being pushed to do heroin (for instance) by a drug dealer that just wants another customer, that's a different story from being offered pot at a house party. You, like so many people in this thread, are lumping all drugs together and saying that they are all equally bad. This is just silly. Not all drugs harm the individual and society I would argue that it's not important whether all drugs are equally bad, or even whether all drugs are bad at all. Rather, I'd encourage you to express your opinion on whether or not it's okay to judge people based on drug use. Perhaps you think that it's okay for some drugs you think are bad, but not okay for other, less harmful drugs? Vote "other" in the poll and tell us why! I already voted 'Yes' in the first poll, and my reason is posted further up on ths page Ack; this is embarrassing! o.o; You're right, you did. And, after reading your conversation with SpaceToaster I see there's no derailment to worry about. Carry on! In reply to your opinion, On October 17 2011 13:05 oldgregg wrote:
Of course its bad to discriminate against drug users. Not all drug users are dirty criminals, most of them are just average people who go home and smoke a joint at the end of the day Isn't it true that the act of going home and smoking a joint at the end of the day is a decision that could possibly negatively impact them? Am I not justified in not wanting to spend time with this person because of it? More importantly, am I to trust my best friend in the arms of this person, at the risk of exposing her to drugs and allowing her to use them too? She's extremely important to me! Haha no worries mate. In reply to your first response; Yes smoking a joint could potentially harm them, but then again so could smoking a cigarette or having a beer or eating a hamburger. Would you not want to spend time with a person who did any of these things? As to whether you would trust your best friend in the arms of the drug user; Well that all depends on the drug. For weed, I would say it is pretty safe to trust your friend with them. All of the pot smokers I know (I used to smoke too), are normal, responsible people. There is no reason not to trust them just because they smoke weed, as for Heroin or crack I don't personally know, but I would be less inclined to trust them!
In all fairness, yes, I know plenty of people who smoke pot and who manage to lead perfectly good lives in spite of it. For some reason, though, there's something within me that says "this is wrong" and doesn't want to be within a thousand miles of even a drop of alcohol.
Also, I feel like I may have external troubles with trusting her with him, so I may very well just be looking to scapegoat his drug use as a legitimate reason not to want her to be with him. I really don't know!
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I am against any drug that "takes away the dignity of the user" in exchange for whatever benefit the drugs produces. There are better options to be happy that let people not only retain their dignity, but also improve the world and themselves. For example, instead of getting instant pleasure by drinking and acting like a drunk person, I could be exercising, creating things and learning things I like in my future career path.
There is no way I will ever reduce myself to a spaced out stoner, getting joy out of thin air. What is the difference between that and becoming a vegetable in exchange for an ample supply of artificial happiness?
Sure, there are very few downsides to alcohol and marijuana, but the state that people are in while doing them is what I care about. Drunk and high people are annoying, and the pleasure that they can get is often seen as a replacement for the pleasure of a job well done, resulting in alcoholics and those "hippies" that are constantly rallying for the legalization of marijuana.
If someone can somehow do a drug while retaining their dignity and receiving the benefits, then I fully support it. For example, low amounts of alcohol or caffeine.
Definition of dignity, because I used the word so much : Bearing, conduct, or speech indicative of self-respect.
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This thread makes me giggle. So many have opinions but they keep "but"ing everything they say so basically its cool but its not. Its not cool but in some circumstances under these predefined terms its cool. How is that even an opinion?
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It affects me really depending on the "drug" they use.
Tobacco, marijuana, and alcohol really don't change my opinions on anyone.
Recreational use of prescription drugs is something that would;
or obviously harder drugs ex: meth; ecstasy; etc.
I've seen a lot of people throughout my life greatly change due to excessive use of harder illegal substances. I've lost friends to them, and for some of them I don't mean we don't talk anymore; I mean they are actually dead due to their poor decisions and drug orientated lifestyle.
It's a very sad day when you find out someone you knew growing up is gone forever.
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On October 17 2011 14:01 SpaceToaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 13:48 UmiNotsuki wrote:On October 17 2011 13:36 oldgregg wrote:On October 17 2011 13:33 UmiNotsuki wrote:On October 17 2011 13:29 oldgregg wrote:On October 17 2011 13:22 SpaceToaster wrote:On October 17 2011 12:44 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:40 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:39 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:34 Romance_us wrote:
[quote]
Dude, it's you being smart? HAHAHAHA. No. It's you having an irrational (and impulsive) reaction based on complete ignorance. That's quite humorous though
I mean just to think you'd call the cops on somebody and negatively affect their life for a personal choice they made that does not directly nor indirectly affect yours just seems a little crazy In America, illegal drugs are illegal. It's insane, I know. But if you flaunt your drug use, you're probably going to jail, one way or another. Sorry that you don't like that. But that's the way it works. Something about crimes being prosecutable in the court of law. who said anything about morals being related to laws? please go away In America, when people break the law, we have this thing we do which we refer to as "calling the police". Equally as insane as my former post. Anyways, the police are readily available, and will report to the location you give them in very little time. They then proceed to arrest the criminals. Is it stupid to call the police when someone is throwing their drug use in your face? Maybe on your island. But here, we call that normal. That is really concerning to me. I'm not a drug user but I've been around enough to have a fairly informed opinion, and to me the absolute worst thing you can do to a regular drug user (not a dealer) is call the authorities on them, at least not as a first option. Jail time, even a brief stint with no prison sentence, tends to lead to more drug use, and from what I've seen also can create feelings of paranoia and depression that last for an extended time afterwards. Do I think you should not be prejudiced against drug users? I don't know - if you don't like drugs, then be prejudiced and don't hang out with drug users. But on the other hand, if you care about someone and they become a drug user or you find out that they use drugs, it should not drastically change how you perceive them. If you are concerned the best thing you can do is express your concern, and if that doesn't work try to get other people close to them to express their concerns as well. Of course that all goes out the window when you're dealing with an armed drug dealer or someone who is violent and on PCP/coke/crack/etc. If you feel threatened then absolutely call the police, but if you are non-threateningly offered drugs, as the original post in the quote tree seemed to mention, then calling the cops is a seriously irrational first impulse. Drug users are not out to get you or make you use drugs, and if they offer it is because they honestly (and possibly not rationally, but sometimes they are fully rational about it) think that you would enjoy them or that they would help you in some way. Getting them into legal trouble is repaying their perceived kindness by negatively influencing their lives - sometimes permanently depending on what the police find. Yet again though, if you're aggressively being pushed to do heroin (for instance) by a drug dealer that just wants another customer, that's a different story from being offered pot at a house party. You, like so many people in this thread, are lumping all drugs together and saying that they are all equally bad. This is just silly. Not all drugs harm the individual and society I would argue that it's not important whether all drugs are equally bad, or even whether all drugs are bad at all. Rather, I'd encourage you to express your opinion on whether or not it's okay to judge people based on drug use. Perhaps you think that it's okay for some drugs you think are bad, but not okay for other, less harmful drugs? Vote "other" in the poll and tell us why! I already voted 'Yes' in the first poll, and my reason is posted further up on ths page Ack; this is embarrassing! o.o; You're right, you did. And, after reading your conversation with SpaceToaster I see there's no derailment to worry about. Carry on! In reply to your opinion, On October 17 2011 13:05 oldgregg wrote:
Of course its bad to discriminate against drug users. Not all drug users are dirty criminals, most of them are just average people who go home and smoke a joint at the end of the day Isn't it true that the act of going home and smoking a joint at the end of the day is a decision that could possibly negatively impact them? Am I not justified in not wanting to spend time with this person because of it? More importantly, am I to trust my best friend in the arms of this person, at the risk of exposing her to drugs and allowing her to use them too? She's extremely important to me! While the morality of the decision is debatable (everyone has their own opinion) you are correct in stating that smoking pot is a decision that could negatively impact a person. There are possible legal ramifications in most counties. I think you're justified in making a decision to avoid possible harm that could come from hanging out with this person, though almost nothing can happen to you just by being around the person. You'd have to actually use drugs to get in trouble for using drugs! I would at least get to know the guy before you passed judgement on his character, though obviously his drug habits are a part of who he is - it wouldn't be fair to judge him as a whole just based on that. What does bother me a bit is that you are trying to pass judgement for your friend on this person, but thats a little off topic. You should trust your friend to make her own decisions, even if you don't approve completely. I wouldn't strain your friendship over one facet of a guy that you don't seem to know all that well (though I don't know the whole situation, thats what I can gather from your writing). Get to know him and decide if she could do better based on all of his qualities rather than just the one that's been analyzed in this thread.
I did say I'm not sure what it is that makes me uncomfortable! But you're very right.
I think the thing that most worries me about his drug use is not HIS drug use, but hers. She's never done drugs and that's always made me a lot more comfortable spending time with her (I come from a town where more than 50% of the teenage population smokes pot.) But she's always had this curiosity for smoking pot, since a lot of her friends do it too, which I've been very keen on trying to kill. I sometimes question if I'm doing it not because I want to keep her safe, but because I'm unthinkingly biased against drug use.
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On October 17 2011 14:02 DeltruS wrote:I am against any drug that "takes away the dignity of the user" in exchange for whatever benefit the drugs produces. There are better options to be happy that let people not only retain their dignity, but also improve the world and themselves. For example, instead of getting instant pleasure by drinking and acting like a drunk person, I could be exercising, creating things and learning things I like in my future career path. There is no way I will ever reduce myself to a spaced out stoner, getting joy out of thin air. What is the difference between that and becoming a vegetable in exchange for an ample supply of artificial happiness? Sure, there are very few downsides to alcohol and marijuana, but the state that people are in while doing them is what I care about. Drunk and high people are annoying, and the pleasure that they can get is often seen as a replacement for the pleasure of a job well done, resulting in alcoholics and those "hippies" that are constantly rallying for the legalization of marijuana. If someone can somehow do a drug while retaining their dignity and receiving the benefits, then I fully support it. For example, low amounts of alcohol or caffeine. Definition of dignity, because I used the word so much :
The bolded text, is so, SO true. That's something I haven't personally considered. I know some drug users smoke only in private situations, but when I've experienced high or drunk people around me it's not once been anything less than extremely unpleasant for me and every sober person with me. Maybe this contributes to my bias. Is that wrong?
EDIT: Next time I make a double post I'm going to force myself to reveal an embarrassing secret about myself, complete with pictures, and post it as a blog. That'll set me straight in no time.
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EPT
