• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:57
CET 07:57
KST 15:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA9StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2156 users

AMD Bulldozer official release and reviews. - Page 18

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 Next All
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
October 14 2011 04:22 GMT
#341
On October 14 2011 13:16 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2011 12:31 JingleHell wrote:
Oh, and I like how he says 8150 "completely obliterated 2600k in x264 encoding...


Why are you using the quick benchmark tool which can't account for system settings and versioning when you can instead quote Anand's own head to head...?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/the-bulldozer-review-amd-fx8150-tested/7


Because it was faster from where I was on their site at the time, and they both show 2600k not even close to being obliterated.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 04:34:11
October 14 2011 04:31 GMT
#342
Yeah, the 2600k is just a beast.

Glad I got my 2500k. It is interesting if you are following on xtreme systerms, someone did a proof of concept that you can get 20-30% performance boost by disabling one of the cores in each cluster to turn it into a much faster quad core over just disabling 2 clusters. He hasn't posted any gaming benchmarks yet but it is definitely interesting as you can clock higher and can remove the penalty for shared cache...

Hey, with enough tinkering and a hypothetical load balancing/throttling/core toggling software patch, it can beat Thuban! xD

Definitely a wacky chip but interesting...
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Twistacles
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1327 Posts
October 14 2011 04:34 GMT
#343
It seems for 90% of people, the i5-2500k is better bang for buck. Better in single threaded apps, overclocks better.

Shame for AMD...love them D:
"If you don't give a shit which gum you buy, get stride" - Tyler
android_245
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia103 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 14:04:34
October 14 2011 13:49 GMT
#344
Here's something interesting:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20111013232215_Ex_AMD_Engineer_Explains_Bulldozer_Fiasco.html
http://www.insideris.com/amd-spreads-propaganda-ex-employee-speaks-out/

Apparently, this ex-AMD engineer claims that part of Bulldozer's failure relates change to the design process of chips by AMD. Traditionally, AMD and Intel handcrafted their chips, but at a certain point (not mentioned), AMD decided to switch to an automated process of designing their chips. He claims that automation increases the speed of the design process (and yet Bulldozer was delayed for half a year), while its inefficiencies leads to a 20% bigger die area and 20% less performance. This explains why a 2 billion transistor CPU can't beat an older X6 1100T which has much less transistors (~900 million) on most tests. And the relatively large size of the chip contributed to its high cost.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 14:12:39
October 14 2011 14:12 GMT
#345
On October 14 2011 22:49 android_245 wrote:
Here's something interesting:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20111013232215_Ex_AMD_Engineer_Explains_Bulldozer_Fiasco.html
http://www.insideris.com/amd-spreads-propaganda-ex-employee-speaks-out/

Apparently, this ex-AMD engineer claims that part of Bulldozer's failure relates change to the design process of chips by AMD. Traditionally, AMD and Intel handcrafted their chips, but at a certain point (not mentioned), AMD decided to switch to an automated process of designing their chips. He claims that automation increases the speed of the design process (and yet Bulldozer was delayed for half a year), while its inefficiencies leads to a 20% bigger die area and 20% less performance. This explains why a 2 billion transistor CPU can't beat an older X6 1100T which has much less transistors (~900 million) on most tests. And the relatively large size of the chip contributed to its high cost.


I have a feeling we'll see a lot of articles feeling out who the public will accept as a scapegoat before we hear about someone getting fired. First of many.

I still think it should be the marketing guys who overhyped it, and whoever set standard pricing.

Not saying this is impossible or anything, just looking at how the world tends to work.
mav451
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1596 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 16:46:55
October 14 2011 16:46 GMT
#346
On October 14 2011 22:49 android_245 wrote:
Here's something interesting:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20111013232215_Ex_AMD_Engineer_Explains_Bulldozer_Fiasco.html
http://www.insideris.com/amd-spreads-propaganda-ex-employee-speaks-out/

Apparently, this ex-AMD engineer claims that part of Bulldozer's failure relates change to the design process of chips by AMD. Traditionally, AMD and Intel handcrafted their chips, but at a certain point (not mentioned), AMD decided to switch to an automated process of designing their chips. He claims that automation increases the speed of the design process (and yet Bulldozer was delayed for half a year), while its inefficiencies leads to a 20% bigger die area and 20% less performance. This explains why a 2 billion transistor CPU can't beat an older X6 1100T which has much less transistors (~900 million) on most tests. And the relatively large size of the chip contributed to its high cost.


Yeah this was discussed months ago on MR too (where he was made a post with that kind of information). I'm lowering engineering expectations for the next 18-24 months, and even then, it's probably still too soon to expect any serious deviations from the engineering design decisions AMD made on BD

Not really a fun time for builders, cuz there's nothing to debate on lol.
With no power comes no responsibility?
IreScath
Profile Joined May 2009
Canada521 Posts
October 14 2011 18:30 GMT
#347
On October 15 2011 01:46 mav451 wrote:
...I'm lowering engineering expectations for the next 18-24 months, and even then, it's probably still too soon to expect any serious deviations from the engineering design decisions AMD made on BD

...


Well w e did just get a new CEO this quarter... Maybe something will... is... changing?
IreScath
mav451
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1596 Posts
October 14 2011 18:32 GMT
#348
You need to be realistic about the timetable to go from engineering design, validation, to a shipping product.
With no power comes no responsibility?
Arnstein
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway3381 Posts
October 14 2011 18:33 GMT
#349
rsol in response to the dragoon voice being heard in SCII: dragoon ai reaches new lows: wanders into wrong game
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
October 14 2011 19:54 GMT
#350
What is this, the youtube thread? That's at least the second time this has been posted here, and this time without even gracing us with a 1-liner.

Christ on a stick.
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 21:58:58
October 14 2011 21:56 GMT
#351
On October 14 2011 22:49 android_245 wrote:
Here's something interesting:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20111013232215_Ex_AMD_Engineer_Explains_Bulldozer_Fiasco.html
http://www.insideris.com/amd-spreads-propaganda-ex-employee-speaks-out/

Apparently, this ex-AMD engineer claims that part of Bulldozer's failure relates change to the design process of chips by AMD. Traditionally, AMD and Intel handcrafted their chips, but at a certain point (not mentioned), AMD decided to switch to an automated process of designing their chips. He claims that automation increases the speed of the design process (and yet Bulldozer was delayed for half a year), while its inefficiencies leads to a 20% bigger die area and 20% less performance. This explains why a 2 billion transistor CPU can't beat an older X6 1100T which has much less transistors (~900 million) on most tests. And the relatively large size of the chip contributed to its high cost.


I realize I'm late quoting this and I'm the 3rd to do so, but I get the feeling that many don't quite get what's going on here. Actually I'm not so sure myself since I've never worked with VHDL / Verilog / whatever or any transistor design tools or digital logic design beyond the baby stuff.

A processor is logically just an insanely complicated digital logic circuit made up of transistors with various properties, in various arrangements, hooked up and laid out in a certain exact pattern. The key idea is that there are multiple ways to build something to do the exact same thing.

All the functional blocks like adders, registers, cache, etc. are made up of transistors. There should be tools for creating blocks as well as laying out parts of the design and figuring out how to connect them together.

For best electrical characteristics (maybe this may effect possible clock speeds and power consumption), fewer gates to pass through so less delays, using the fewest amount of transistors, and so on, it's best to optimize the layout and construction of elements by hand. No automatic tools are perfect.

It's very roughly like writing C code, compiling, and then doing hand optimization of the resulting assembly code to make it a bit faster. And mostly C is just used for computational efficiency to begin with.

Obviously you still have to do a lot of stuff manually and plan things out, even if you're using some automatic tools to help with some of the design. There's just the question of how much skimping is going on, and how much difference that's really making.

I think the comment may be as much a critique of the culture shift as much as of the technical merits of taking such shortcuts.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
October 14 2011 21:59 GMT
#352
Maybe that ex-AMD engineer is trying to make the process sound bad because he got fired from a job doing the basic circuit design?
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 23:05:03
October 14 2011 23:02 GMT
#353
http://www.pcinpact.com/articles/amd-fx-8150/420-5.htm

Apparently it works 17-35% better on Linux compared to the Phenom || X6 predecessor without overclocking and or requiring ridiculous load voltages that come with overclocking...
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Uranium
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1077 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 23:14:55
October 14 2011 23:14 GMT
#354
On October 15 2011 06:59 JingleHell wrote:
Maybe that ex-AMD engineer is trying to make the process sound bad because he got fired from a job doing the basic circuit design?

Nah, a chip that uses DOUBLE the number of transistors of the i7 should be able to get somewhat close in performance. But instead it's far, far behind and just uses a shitload more power. Sounds exactly like the type of crap that automated tools generate.

I sincerely hope AMD's new CEO kicks this practice out the door, because if they don't recover quickly, AMD is gonna be on its way out, which is bad for consumers... Intel has already shown its willingness to squeeze competitors out of the market and charge exorbitant prices. Imagine what it will be like if they have a true monopoly?
"Sentry imba! You see? YOU SEE??!!" - Sen | "Marauder die die!" - oGsMC | "Oh my god, she texted me back!" - Day[9]
ddrddrddrddr
Profile Joined August 2010
1344 Posts
October 14 2011 23:32 GMT
#355
I know how they can save this situation:
AMD, the new Mac!
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
October 15 2011 00:14 GMT
#356
On October 15 2011 08:32 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
I know how they can save this situation:
AMD, the new Mac!


Kinda hard to market something as supposedly elegant and user-friendly when it's plugged into a motherboard 24/7.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-15 00:40:39
October 15 2011 00:24 GMT
#357
So apparently a new bios option on the MSI boards FM1 boards that can allow you to push the clock speed near 170mhz which results in 4.0-5.0 ghz on the processor...

It is interesting to note that FM1 Llanos are basically 32nm Phenoms... There's even a Athlon II X4 631 which is a Llano with disabled graphics core.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://cpu.it168.com/a2011/0927/1252/000001252333_all.shtml

Definitely interesting
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Thrill
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
2599 Posts
October 15 2011 00:48 GMT
#358
AMD always have the best code names!

"QUADFATHER"
"Interlagos cores"
"Thuban"

That's sadly about all they've got going for them in my book though...

mav451
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1596 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-15 01:15:19
October 15 2011 01:14 GMT
#359
How are you gonna post quadfather without an accompanying image...jeez
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
With no power comes no responsibility?
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
October 17 2011 08:21 GMT
#360
On October 15 2011 09:24 Antisocialmunky wrote:
So apparently a new bios option on the MSI boards FM1 boards that can allow you to push the clock speed near 170mhz which results in 4.0-5.0 ghz on the processor...

It is interesting to note that FM1 Llanos are basically 32nm Phenoms... There's even a Athlon II X4 631 which is a Llano with disabled graphics core.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://cpu.it168.com/a2011/0927/1252/000001252333_all.shtml

Definitely interesting


It's interesting, if you want to buy a new socket motherboard just for the sake of getting a slightly faster athlon without L3 cache.

Any sane person would still go with a sandy bridge if they have to change motherboards.
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 3m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 210
ProTech115
SortOf 84
Trikslyr24
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4089
Calm 3903
BeSt 353
Zeus 276
EffOrt 119
Shinee 49
Sharp 28
NotJumperer 19
Hm[arnc] 9
Dota 2
monkeys_forever697
League of Legends
JimRising 634
Reynor53
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1377
Other Games
summit1g10079
hungrybox214
C9.Mang0180
rGuardiaN22
Dewaltoss4
trigger2
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick632
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 92
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1574
Other Games
• imaqtpie452
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 3m
Replay Cast
16h 3m
RSL Revival
1d
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
1d 14h
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
IPSL
4 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-16
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.