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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on. Posts of the following nature are banned: 1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post. 2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no. 3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture. 4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments. Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. | ||
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bloodwhore~
1010 Posts
On December 07 2016 06:51 plasmidghost wrote: Yeah, that's true. She's even said that we'll likely end up getting married in a few years, so I'm looking forward to that That's a daring statement  . How long have you been together? | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On December 06 2016 13:23 B.I.G. wrote: For sure there are many exceptions but the things I listed here are either based on my own experience or based on observations. When discussing this point with other friends plenty of them strongly disagreed with me so I am very willing to accept that I'm just being far too skeptical. What do you guys think? Anything to add to the list or are you saying that these kind of platonic relationships are no problem for you? I view it as a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's a position many people have when they're younger (because all interactions with women at that point have the suggestion of sexual tension), but it slowly fades away as you mature. Part of it is refining your preferences in women and learning how to prioritize sex and relationships in your overall life; another is decoupling your identity and self-esteem from sex in general. In my view, the ability to have platonic relationships with women is a sign of sexual maturity. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On December 06 2016 16:48 Laurens wrote: Have you watched "When Harry met Sally"? The entire movie is pretty much about this topic, except the gender roles are flipped. The woman thinks friendship can't be purely platonic and the man insists it can. And then of course they fall in love. Yeah movies are bullshit, this is definitely an exception rather than the rule. I don't go on holidays with my male friends and treat female ones the same - much like with my male friends the attraction's not there, or is simply not on the level I'm looking for, so when I know there's something so much better and in this day and age you can get as many women as you want there's just no issue being friends with a girl. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
On December 07 2016 07:53 CosmicSpiral wrote: I view it as a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's a position many people have when they're younger (because all interactions with women at that point have the suggestion of sexual tension), but it slowly fades away as you mature. Part of it is refining your preferences in women and learning how to prioritize sex and relationships in your overall life; another is decoupling your identity and self-esteem from sex in general. In my view, the ability to have platonic relationships with women is a sign of sexual maturity. Could you elaborate on the last two sentences, especially sexual maturity? What do you exactly mean by that? | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On December 06 2016 13:23 B.I.G. wrote: So a few weeks ago I got into a bit of a discussion with a girl. The point was that I was of the opinion that genuinely platonic male - female friendship is bullshit 9 times out of 10. Now I'm not talking about the casual other sex friends I'm all of us have tons off, I'm talking about the kind of friendship where you hang out at eachother's home late at night watching movies, staying over, maybe go on a holiday with the two of you, etc. It might say a lot about me but I do believe that the sexual tension is an obstacle that is very difficult to just ignore. In 90% (or more) of cases I think its rather something like: -There is no attraction because he or she is gay (or both) -One actually does have feelings but is completely "friendzoned" -They are having or have had casual sex -Due to circumstance or work him and her might end up having to work very closely together and form a very strong bond through shared experience (even then still the sexual tension might become an issue) For sure there are many exceptions but the things I listed here are either based on my own experience or based on observations. When discussing this point with other friends plenty of them strongly disagreed with me so I am very willing to accept that I'm just being far too skeptical. What do you guys think? Anything to add to the list or are you saying that these kind of platonic relationships are no problem for you? I agree with the thought that women (more than men) think the man's just being nice when he wants more, not fully in tune with somewhat shy men scared to ask out or the male sex drive. I don't know if I'd put a 90% tag on it. I just think society currently oversells platonic opposite-sex friendships compared to the numbers that have feelings but don't act on them. Just one example from my life. A friend of mine a few years ago got engaged to the girl he'd been dating for over two years. He got a little miffed that she continued to grab lunch with a guy friend from college. She, naturally, accusing him of irrational jealously because she and him are so close enough to know it's platonic, there's never been romance, they just studied and had same major. He tells her next lunch to explicitly state that she engaged to be married. She was confidant to be proven right, but the man was shocked "I didn't know that it was so serious!" They pleasantly parted but she never saw that friend again. Now take a moment to gauge your reaction. The girl was had every reason for thinking the way she did. Her fiancee now-husband had a good bead never even having met the guy (I should ask him if he'd rate the 90% bullshit actually). Beforehand, that issue was a minor argument because she thought he was being totally unfair to women in general--she WOULD KNOW if it was like that and he was unfairly doubting her perception. Now if we talk narrowly about late night movies, staying over, holidays just the two of you, yes I'm with you on way more often bullshit than not. On December 07 2016 07:53 CosmicSpiral wrote: I view it as a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's a position many people have when they're younger (because all interactions with women at that point have the suggestion of sexual tension), but it slowly fades away as you mature. Part of it is refining your preferences in women and learning how to prioritize sex and relationships in your overall life; another is decoupling your identity and self-esteem from sex in general. In my view, the ability to have platonic relationships with women is a sign of sexual maturity. Sex drive dropping lower also helps. And aren't you saying he's right for younger "Just friends" ... self fulfilling prophesy signals they're defeating the friendship by calling it truly a friendship. You seem to say it's natural for people to kind of grow out of having bs friendships with as maturity comes. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Baccano
0 Posts
So basically I just started grad school and this girl is in the same class as me. We are a small class probably only 25 people so everyone knows everyone in the class. Me and the girl are always together we carpool, study together, etc, etc. I have asked her outside of school didn't explicitly say its a date or anything, but just asked her out to eat and go places with me. She suggested we go to a basketball game this friday. So I prolly will go (depending on if i have other priorities/plans I made previously). She also suggested we go on a trip together (to where I don't know one that costs a hell lot of money and I told her it would depend honestly, but prolly not unless were more toward the end of our program). When we are alone we are super flirty I am literally sitting right next to her and there is no space between us and were just always smiling at each other etc. playing those stupid high school flirty games. I know most of you are gonna say well its obvious she likes you since she does that and is willing to go wherever I ask usually etc. The thing is this girl is the queen of mix signals. Some backstory about her if it matters. She has dated before, but never really had a boyfriend. Our age differences are 25 and 23 if that matters. I She is super popular with the guys apparently everyone tries to hit her up (random guys call her and invite her, but she just ignores their invites) but being with her all the time I know she basically is home all the time. So I at least have a leg up on other people in that regard. The main thing is that when the topic of relationships (usually a girlfriend will ask her ive asked her once in passing) comes up she says I'm not so sure and that she wants to focus on her studies first before pursuing anything relationship wise. I feel like with her she is also confused as to what she really wants so I don't really want to force the issue and make it awkward etc. Honestly I would ask her straight up, but its just a small class and the first semester is about to end. I had two plans either to ask her ASAP or just ask her towards the end of program and just be friendly/flirty with her etc. The program is only a about a year and a half to two years. I really don't wanna (shit where I eat) haha so I am kinda electing to just wait it out and ask her later. Its honestly late and I'm studying for a test so I def left details out, but yea. | ||
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bloodwhore~
1010 Posts
On December 07 2016 19:54 Baccano wrote:Honestly I would ask her straight up, but its just a small class and the first semester is about to end. I had two plans either to ask her ASAP or just ask her towards the end of program and just be friendly/flirty with her etc. The program is only a about a year and a half to two years. I really don't wanna (shit where I eat) haha so I am kinda electing to just wait it out and ask her later. If I was you I would just ask her out on a date - and make sure she knows it is a date. You say you are very blunt so I don't think that would be that much of a problem. As I see it, your problem seem to be that you don't want to lose her as a friend. That's a risk you would maybe have to take in case she think it would be awkward to still be your friend after a possible rejection. As for the "We start dating and become a couple but it doesn't work out." the probabilty that you will be friends is a lot smaller I think. The positives far outweigh the negatives in my opinion. Just do it if you think she is worth the risk. Which sounds like you think it is, but you're just scared. | ||
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IntoTheStorm
116 Posts
That's a story as weird as stories go, I guess. Couple of weeks back I opened my gmail in the browser. And the Hangouts application, the one that I almost never use, flashes. I checked it and I see a message from a random girl, name is Kate. She texted me something like "I don't know why I haven't responded to a message from you, it has been from a year and a half, sorry.". After I scratched my head and I checked her profile to see if I can confirm my suspicions that she's ugly and/or retarded, I was pleasantly surprised to see neither. So, being my usual arrogant braindead that I am, I replied in the lines of "Look, I have no idea what this is about and honestly, I don't actually care if you will reply me or not, I would even prefer not to get a text from you anymore. But if you like message me on Snapchat, that's it, see you, I guess.". To my surprise she added me on Snapchat. And we conversed. As time went by it became clear she actually enjoys that I speak what I feel (to people I don't know, at least. To those I do know, I am more reserved, I would like them to think I care about them so I try not to be too honest. Because, as someone way smarter has put it, people like honesty. Unless you're honest with them. Then you're an asshole.). She is an intellectually challenging girl, the kind you're likely to meet in a library, not in a club (not that I don't like clubbing from time to time). She is also young (18) and has that beauty that's fresh as the spring in bloom, the kind that leaves 35 year olds with makeup to be green with envy. She's a happy person, like easy going, open minded. She is mostly talking about school, she is first year in Medical school. This is fine, I am a doctor and we've even had some discussions. But I happen to hate chat programs. So I asked her to go and meet her. We walked her dog one night and we talked. Couple of days later I met her at her school, in some break. The same day, the evening was particularly cold, like -9 Celsius outside and when the wind was up, it cut through clothes, bone chilling. We were on the back seat of my car, comfortable and all. I was listening about some school test on different cells. I was just watching her face, smooth and it seemed to beam, even in the dim light. She was dressed with some jacket, had her hands inside it. Rarely have I felt this but I just wanted to kiss her right then and there. So I said "Kate, I want to kiss you.". And I moved towards her face. She was startled. "Where did that come from, why would you .like to kiss me?". I replied "I don't exactly know, I just feel something, there is not some table with character matching, I just find you fun and refreshing and sweet. And I am enjoying this moment that will never come again. And I am enjoying your company. So, let me kiss you or I will be on my way and I won't waste my time and yours.". She pulled her arms from the jacket and, while putting one around the back of my head, she said "I want you to waste my time...". So we kissed and cuddled then. I've seen her two times since then. It's been fun. And exciting. And sweet. She's a remarkable young lady, I might end up having tons of fun with her. What's the best about her is that she doesn't ask stupid personal questions, she just sits there talking and enjoying my company. And that's refreshing. I will try to keep this thing updated if you guys like. ps. last night I was wondering for a time how an event so random like her message, can have an impact on one's life. But that's all there is to life, isn't it? Random events happening all the time and we just don't think about them and live on. | ||
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bloodwhore~
1010 Posts
On December 07 2016 22:51 IntoTheStorm wrote: ps. last night I was wondering for a time how an event so random like her message, can have an impact on one's life. But that's all there is to life, isn't it? Random events happening all the time and we just don't think about them and live on. I must say, this is honestly written like a 8 year old girl would write a short story about love. Don't think the story is that weird as well. Maybe she had just seen you somewhere and wanted to talk to you so she started a conversation. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Conventional wisdom, other than Johnny Depp, pretty much gives an unambiguous "no" to this question. And yet, anecdotally, the one time that I had a situation like that in my life a fair few years ago, I really wish I had given B more attention when I had the chance. The "nothing really wrong" situation is often a smokescreen for a wide range of issues that you unconsciously bury beneath the surface (I've been far more easily capable of acknowledging the faults with people who I had better experiences with) and the more I thought about it, the more deep-seated and irreconcilable the problems turned out to be with A. And I'm sure everyone realizes that if you don't take something when offered, you very well may never get another chance. I met B again and tried my best but ultimately, despite the fact that I was absolutely right about how compatible we seemed, for various reasons it was too late. Definitely ranks as one of the biggest disappointments I've had despite the fact that it's mostly in line with "conventional wisdom" on the matter. Of course, perhaps others have had the opposite situation, where B turned out to be overrated and you shouldn't have left A. I'm curious if anyone else has had this situation. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On December 08 2016 01:42 LegalLord wrote: So here's a question I've pondered for a while, and I was curious what others think. Say you're currently seeing A, and things seem to be more or less alright; nothing particularly wrong with that relationship. Then B comes along, and seems like someone you connect with on a deep level and whom you could see yourself getting along with even better than with A. Should you give up on A and pursue B? Conventional wisdom, other than Johnny Depp, pretty much gives an unambiguous "no" to this question. And yet, anecdotally, the one time that I had a situation like that in my life a fair few years ago, I really wish I had given B more attention when I had the chance. The "nothing really wrong" situation is often a smokescreen for a wide range of issues that you unconsciously bury beneath the surface (I've been far more easily capable of acknowledging the faults with people who I had better experiences with) and the more I thought about it, the more deep-seated and irreconcilable the problems turned out to be with A. And I'm sure everyone realizes that if you don't take something when offered, you very well may never get another chance. I met B again and tried my best but ultimately, despite the fact that I was absolutely right about how compatible we seemed, for various reasons it was too late. Definitely ranks as one of the biggest disappointments I've had despite the fact that it's mostly in line with "conventional wisdom" on the matter. Of course, perhaps others have had the opposite situation, where B turned out to be overrated and you shouldn't have left A. I'm curious if anyone else has had this situation. It depends upon what you're looking for. If you're at the point where you're ready or at least willing to settle down, then you should be moving on from someone that you're dating as soon as you decide that that person is not the right one for a permanent relationship. And you'll know that you've found the right person when deciding whether to marry that person is the easiest decision in your life. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
So you have to weigh between fixing the current things that annoy you in the relationship and the unknown problems that may arise with a person you might not know as well as your current partner. Sure many people enjoy a new relationship because it's fresh, your newly in love or sth. and everything feels great. But what if the same or similar problems as with the former partner arise? What if the problem is inherently on your side? Unless you yourself are clear on what you want and where you think the problems lie and have checked your version of reality with your partner, I'd say don't change just for the sake of taking an opportunity. Unless you are quite sure the reasons for you not getting along with A are not solvable, I, personally, would focus on that area first and if this fails I suppose it is time to split anyways? | ||
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bloodwhore~
1010 Posts
On December 08 2016 01:42 LegalLord wrote: So here's a question I've pondered for a while, and I was curious what others think. Say you're currently seeing A, and things seem to be more or less alright; nothing particularly wrong with that relationship. Then B comes along, and seems like someone you connect with on a deep level and whom you could see yourself getting along with even better than with A. Should you give up on A and pursue B? Conventional wisdom, other than Johnny Depp, pretty much gives an unambiguous "no" to this question. And yet, anecdotally, the one time that I had a situation like that in my life a fair few years ago, I really wish I had given B more attention when I had the chance. The "nothing really wrong" situation is often a smokescreen for a wide range of issues that you unconsciously bury beneath the surface (I've been far more easily capable of acknowledging the faults with people who I had better experiences with) and the more I thought about it, the more deep-seated and irreconcilable the problems turned out to be with A. And I'm sure everyone realizes that if you don't take something when offered, you very well may never get another chance. I met B again and tried my best but ultimately, despite the fact that I was absolutely right about how compatible we seemed, for various reasons it was too late. Definitely ranks as one of the biggest disappointments I've had despite the fact that it's mostly in line with "conventional wisdom" on the matter. Of course, perhaps others have had the opposite situation, where B turned out to be overrated and you shouldn't have left A. I'm curious if anyone else has had this situation. My idea is that you shouldn't fall or think that way about B in the first place is everything is awesome with A. I haven't really been in that situation though. I have noticed I'm not happy with "more or less alright" though. If I already was in a relationship with A I probably wouldn't end the relationship and start dating B, but I might start to date B as well as A if we were just early in the dating phase. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5160 Posts
More or less alright is also the safe way though. I think it's really hard to assess how high of a risk/reward ratio you're playing with if you would abandon A to pursue B. What if it doesn't work out? Then you're in a lose lose situation for you and A. You should still consider things with A also before making a choice that impacts you both. Actions that relate to relationships aren't an individual's to make. You don't get to say: "well fuck this, things might seem better somewhere else, byeeeeee!!". The real question you should ask yourself is, however: why did you settle for ok in the first place? If you want to play it safe, that's okay, but maybe playing high risk high reward isn't your game then and you shouldn't venture in to territories you might regret venturing into. Maybe you were misled by your own psyche that you knew what you got was more than just ok, when in reality -and some experience down the road later- it's not. People evolve and if you're not getting out of the relationship what you initially thought you'd get, I'd say it needs a thorough reevaluation in the sense that the breakup should be almost unavoidable. I have a strong opinion about this and I could keep going and going on this complex issue. But I want to either spend my life with someone I have a profound, deep connection with, rather than with someone I just spend time with and feels kind of meh (fake, forced, Bold & the beautiful, rippling along). I'd rather be alone than come to realize sooner or later you've spent so much time with someone you actually can't stand any longer. | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
Against both her and my better judgement B and I keep hanging out in a friends with occassional hook up kinda way and we even start entertaining thoughts like this could maybe lead somewhere if we are both willing to compromise (me hurrying up and getting my shit together and her taking a chill pill and be willing to wait a few years). However karma is an ice cold bitch and my alcoholic rampages and general misbehaviour finally caught up to me. On a disaster date (the story of which made my friends shit themselves with laughter save for the ones with the actual capability of feeling human emotion) I got black out drunk and apparently misbehaved so fucking badly to her and her friends I so utterly annihilated her feelings towards me. So yeah I had an A and B situation with two awesome girls. The end result is A being sad because she never really understood what happened, B being angry with me and probably a bit more bitter against men in general, and me alone and a bit concerned about this hidden self destructive side of my me. At least the story is good for some laughs though. | ||
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