EPTDating: How's your luck? - Page 477
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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on. Posts of the following nature are banned: 1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post. 2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no. 3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture. 4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments. Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. | ||
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chadissilent
Canada1187 Posts
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
The original statement comes from overanalyzation. I have in my opinion a very smart cohort of friends and even though we are socially capable we are also very safe. I think if we analyzed less and acted more we would be much more successful with women, though as is we basically need to be in an altered state of mind to do that. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On May 30 2014 11:22 chadissilent wrote: There are different kinds of intelligence. Having a good math grade doesn't make you intelligent, it makes you good at math. Social intelligence/awareness is as important, or even more important, than technical intelligence. People that come across as dumb or aloof may well be totally aware of everything but are filtering out what they deem unimportant. This allows them to be more "in the moment" as a result of their efficient filtering rather than "picking up girls because they're dumb." Exactly, you can be intelligent as a person, very much so, and one facet of that intelligence can be knowing how to carry yourself in social circumstances, and it can come from experience. Mentally holding back in certain ways, because you're aware that the alternative makes you prone to being awkward or off-putting, can be a skill that serves one quite well. The cliffnotes of all this crap, I guess, is just be yourself and don't overthink it. Basically what everyone since the beginning of time keeps saying. But for some it takes practice, perhaps even everyone. It also takes perspective. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 30 2014 12:52 NewSunshine wrote: Exactly, you can be intelligent as a person, very much so, and one facet of that intelligence can be knowing how to carry yourself in social circumstances, and it can come from experience. Mentally holding back in certain ways, because you're aware that the alternative makes you prone to being awkward or off-putting, can be a skill that serves one quite well. The cliffnotes of all this crap, I guess, is just be yourself and don't overthink it. Basically what everyone since the beginning of time keeps saying. But for some it takes practice, perhaps even everyone. It also takes perspective. So if you are currently living in your mother basement, have a beer bully, no job or in the process of educating yourself for a profession and having egregious hygiene; you should just "be yourself"? You gotta at least make yourself presentable and be able to have enough survival skills to make it your own. Its a ladder that you need to constantly climb in order to upgrade yourself. | ||
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chadissilent
Canada1187 Posts
On May 30 2014 13:59 Xiphos wrote: So if you are currently living in your mother basement, have a beer bully, no job or in the process of educating yourself for a profession and having egregious hygiene; you should just "be yourself"? You gotta at least make yourself presentable and be able to have enough survival skills to make it your own. Its a ladder that you need to constantly climb in order to upgrade yourself. That's not being yourself, that's being a lazy piece of shit. You don't have to pretend to be someone else to get off your ass, go for a run, and take a shower. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 31 2014 00:21 chadissilent wrote: That's not being yourself, that's being a lazy piece of shit. You don't have to pretend to be someone else to get off your ass, go for a run, and take a shower. Being yourself = stay in the current state. It should be be the best version of yourself. If you are not confident, don't continue to fail by doing the same thing as before, change it up. So you gotta always be willing to change yourself for the better. "Be yourself" is kind of like the worst advice you can ever give someone because you are unwilling to truly get to the depth of the person's failure thus end up hurting him in the long run. | ||
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Cynry
810 Posts
On May 31 2014 00:25 Xiphos wrote: Being yourself = stay in the current state. It should be be the best version of yourself. If you are not confident, don't continue to fail by doing the same thing as before, change it up. So you gotta always be willing to change yourself for the better. "Be yourself" is kind of like the worst advice you can ever give someone because you are unwilling to truly get to the depth of the person's failure thus end up hurting him in the long run. That's not how I see the "be yourself" advice. It is not about staying the same, but stopping to pay attention to thoughts like "what will people think of me if I do/say X". It's doing stuff for you, because you want them, and not because you feel obligated to do them for a reason. Although you are not wrong (improving oneself is something more people should thrive for), you don't give the idea of being yourself enough credit/thinking imo. Edit : just read some posts above, and I disagree about being different kind of intelligence. Saying that is mixing talent and intelligence, which are different things, although they can express themselves in similar ways at the superficial level. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
On May 30 2014 12:52 NewSunshine wrote: Exactly, you can be intelligent as a person, very much so, and one facet of that intelligence can be knowing how to carry yourself in social circumstances, and it can come from experience. Mentally holding back in certain ways, because you're aware that the alternative makes you prone to being awkward or off-putting, can be a skill that serves one quite well. The cliffnotes of all this crap, I guess, is just be yourself and don't overthink it. Basically what everyone since the beginning of time keeps saying. But for some it takes practice, perhaps even everyone. It also takes perspective. The issue is that, to put things into perspective, if you play SC2 since two years on a regular basis and are still stuck in bronze "just play more and you'll get better" isn't exactly the advise the person needs anymore. Most people who are looking for dating advice in some shape or form already heard "just be yourself" and, for whatever reason, said advice hasn't worked for them. "Mainstream" dating advice is among the lines of "Just be nice to her, go on a few dates and have a nice time!" which while technically correct also doesn't help jack shit when someone feels they get rejected all the time. The whole deal stems from the fact that most people (this is a major reason why women are attracted to this scene in particular since it's one of the few dealing with this stuff) have no idea what "yourself" actually means. We for example usually tend to avoid conflict to be accepted by others when in reality this behaviour makes us accepted less. Social interactions, while usually understandable when you really think about what drives us, can be incredibly confusing and non-obvious. And that is where the difference between people who learned this by "overthinking" and naturals shows the most: One group can explain things well because they understand the processes involved step by step while the other tends to give vague and, while mostly correct, useless information for another person seeking advice. | ||
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Cynry
810 Posts
But still, r.Evo, good points, as usual it seems. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 31 2014 00:35 Cynry wrote: That's not how I see the "be yourself" advice. It is not about staying the same, but stopping to pay attention to thoughts like "what will people think of me if I do/say X". It's doing stuff for you, because you want them, and not because you feel obligated to do them for a reason. Although you are not wrong (improving oneself is something more people should thrive for), you don't give the idea of being yourself enough credit/thinking imo. Edit : just read some posts above, and I disagree about being different kind of intelligence. Saying that is mixing talent and intelligence, which are different things, although they can express themselves in similar ways at the superficial level. Say that you want to get X amount of money in order to Y and Z things. You find that you need to do A and/or B and/or C in order to achieve your goal. But however those task requires a lot of effort to pull it off which average human wouldn't do. So in order to get what you want, you have to do things that you don't want to do but you have to do them for long term success. "Being yourself" only works if you are an already successful, well-made, and charismatic man. Everything requires a premise to set it up. That's like saying "Oh I want to pull off the Bisu build....but I don't want to practice any of that high multitasking 300 APM StarCraft..." So yeah "being yourself", "works". Only for the few people up there on the top. But for the majority of the people, its a terrible advice. | ||
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Snotling
Germany885 Posts
On May 31 2014 01:09 Xiphos wrote: So yeah "being yourself", "works". Only for the few people up there on the top. But for the majority of the people, its a terrible advice. it actually works pretty well for the vast majority people, because most people seem to be able to date and reproduce quite nicely^^ The point is that its no good advice for those who fail. Also: you should try and improve yourself every day anyways. (just my humble oppinion) | ||
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
Yet somehow mankind managed to survive. Not everyone can be a Warren Beatty or a Steve McQueen. And we shouldn't give people the wrong ideas that they could. | ||
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
On May 31 2014 01:27 urboss wrote: Since the beginning of mankind people haven't gotten any advice on the topic of dating. Yet somehow mankind managed to survive. Not everyone can be a Warren Beatty or a Steve McQueen. And we shouldn't give people the wrong ideas that they could. Exactly. Reading some of the posts in here, one would think that only successful and seductive men are getting laid. Take a look around. That ain't the case lol. | ||
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Cynry
810 Posts
On May 31 2014 01:09 Xiphos wrote: Say that you want to get X amount of money in order to Y and Z things. You find that you need to do A and/or B and/or C in order to achieve your goal. But however those task requires a lot of effort to pull it off which average human wouldn't do. So in order to get what you want, you have to do things that you don't want to do but you have to do them for long term success. "Being yourself" only works if you are an already successful, well-made, and charismatic man. Everything requires a premise to set it up. That's like saying "Oh I want to pull off the Bisu build....but I don't want to practice any of that high multitasking 300 APM StarCraft..." So yeah "being yourself", "works". Only for the few people up there on the top. But for the majority of the people, its a terrible advice. That's a very different situation from what I was thinking though, maybe I didn't make myself clear. I guess the misinterpretated part was "doing stuff because you want it, not because you feel obligated to do so". I wasn't talking about how you achieve your goals (which, by the way, are things you want to achieve, what you are talking about is how people hierarchize their goals, different story), but how you act in your everyday life. Let's give some exemples. When one feels the need to seduce woman, is it because he desires it, or because he wants to fit into the HE-MAN heterosexual norm ? When he is being nice to them, is it because that is how he feels about people in general, or does he feel obligated to treat women as princess ? Maybe not the best exemples, I tried to stay on topic, but I hope my point is clearer now. From a more personal perspective, being myself was stoping to act around what I thought people were expecting of me, so this is what I understand when people gives that advice. Now, I realise only giving this advice without explanations doesn't do much good, and in no way it contradicts the fact that I try to get better at being myself everyday (because it is something that I want). | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 31 2014 01:29 farvacola wrote: Exactly. Reading some of the posts in here, one would think that only successful and seductive men are getting laid. Take a look around. That ain't the case lol. But can they get quality women? That's the problem. This is a standard question. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
On May 31 2014 01:29 farvacola wrote: Exactly. Reading some of the posts in here, one would think that only successful and seductive men are getting laid. Take a look around. That ain't the case lol. Getting laid for the sake of getting laid or reproducing for the sake of reproducing isn't hard. Improving your skillset when it comes to dating is about widening the choices you can make in your potential partner(s). If you're happy with the people you're dating then obviously don't bother! | ||
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
Ignore the ladies completely and focus on your goals and your passions. After a while, the ladies will start flocking around you! Stop thinking about how to approach/impress/seduce/cater to women and you will be surprised by the outcome! | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 31 2014 01:34 Cynry wrote: That's a very different situation from what I was thinking though, maybe I didn't make myself clear. I guess the misinterpretated part was "doing stuff because you want it, not because you feel obligated to do so". I wasn't talking about how you achieve your goals (which, by the way, are things you want to achieve, what you are talking about is how people hierarchize their goals, different story), but how you act in your everyday life. Let's give some exemples. When one feels the need to seduce woman, is it because he desires it, or because he wants to fit into the HE-MAN heterosexual norm ? When he is being nice to them, is it because that is how he feels about people in general, or does he feel obligated to treat women as princess ? Maybe not the best exemples, I tried to stay on topic, but I hope my point is clearer now. From a more personal perspective, being myself was stoping to act around what I thought people were expecting of me, so this is what I understand when people gives that advice. Now, I realise only giving this advice without explanations doesn't do much good, and in no way it contradicts the fact that I try to get better at being myself everyday (because it is something that I want). The way I see is that people change. Your person of yesterday isn't the same person of today and your person of tomorrow is not the same person of today. So this makes "being yourself" very blurry. Are you trying to be yourself of last week? Last year? 2 years ago? Or currently? We are constantly changing, evolving, and adapting to the surrounding environment. Sometime when you tried to accomplish a certain thing in a certain method but it doesn't work. So you think of another method. This means you are are changing. And if you are currently making mistakes in your current self and then found a solution, you are in fact, stripping away your old self and reinventing yourself. I hate to see people getting frustrated because of lack of change. I've personally descended into that madness multiple of time and it was absolutely onerous to escape from its grasp, all because I wasn't constantly on my toes to react properly. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On May 30 2014 13:59 Xiphos wrote: So if you are currently living in your mother basement, have a beer bully, no job or in the process of educating yourself for a profession and having egregious hygiene; you should just "be yourself"? You gotta at least make yourself presentable and be able to have enough survival skills to make it your own. Its a ladder that you need to constantly climb in order to upgrade yourself. Be yourself is the best advice you can give someone. It comes from a place of self love, instead of self loathing. It teaches you to pay attention to your needs before anyone else's, by being true to your desires and wants out of life. Are you telling me that the lazy person in basement is being "true" to himself? No he is probably full of regret and hates his situation, but is too lazy to change anything. You give meaning to your own life, and get what you want out of it instead of being brainwashed by others | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 31 2014 02:16 biology]major wrote: Be yourself is the best advice you can give someone. It comes from a place of self love, instead of self loathing. It teaches you to pay attention to your needs before anyone else's, by being true to your desires and wants out of life. Are you telling me that the lazy person in basement is being "true" to himself? No he is probably full of regret and hates his situation, but is too lazy to change anything. You give meaning to your own life, and get what you want out of it instead of being brainwashed by others Who are you right now? A lazy slob in basement. That means right NOW you are a lazy slob in basement. Who do you want to be? A person who can handle himself financially and develop sophisticated tastes for life. Is that you right now? No it isn't. Do you want to change yourself? Yes, most certainly. So go ahead and do it. In summary, huge differences between who you are and who do you want to be. | ||
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