We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned: 1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post. 2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no. 3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture. 4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating.
On December 27 2013 14:01 rezoacken wrote: I'm not necessarily against the idea but are you really comfortable going from "still a virgin" to "Had sex once, paid for it". I'm just not sure in terms of stigma or self esteem it's better.
Either way I'd still advise to change a few things in your life or attitude first if possible before going that way.
Also I must say, your posts feel revealing to me when you say you see sex only as an added bonus. It certainly isn't a really good attitude to have if you're looking for a relationship. Sex usually comes first and then if things clicks after a while it evolves into a real romantic relationship. Not the other way around. It's "I'm attracted to you, let's have some fun. And you're even a good person ! Let's marry and make kids." and not "You're a good person, let's marry. Oh and yeah there's this thing called sex". Not saying it never happens this way but I'd say it's not... "healthy".
In other words, maybe wanting sex would be a good first step.
This is not true at all in my experience. All my friends first developed a relationship (and myself included) and only then got to the sex part. The only instances where sex came first were one night stands (but only few of my friends actually do that kind of thing).
So I would say it depends. Certainly, this is not a general rule...
As somebody said, the problem isn't with my views on virginity conflicting with that of the world, it's the 'struggling to get laid' (although I personally think it's struggling to find someone/a gf). If all I wanted was to get laid I don't doubt some persistance in the local barscene would net me a one night stand sooner or later. It's not something I'm interested in. Maybe my lack of desire for sex is a problem in that it prevents me from too actively seeking out women. However, this doesn't mean I don't want to have sex. It's just not my primary goal.
Furthermore, when I said lack of confidence around women, I didn't necessarily mean in terms of social interaction. I used to be really nervous around women in general, and really shy. I'm only recently starting to like myself and be confident in myself after really struggling with that throughout my teen years. That nervousness in my social interaction has been a lot better recently. I'm not as slick and suave as I'd like to be but at least I can string a coherent sentence together now
I lost some weight recently (35 pounds) and I want to lose another 35. So I am progressing in terms of being the person I want to be. I just started this process really late, and it isn't going as fast as I want it to. The lack of confidence I was referring to was more in the fear that even if I started to get physical with a girl, my lack of experience would either cause me to, pun intended, fuck up, or turn her off because I'd guess teachinga 25 year old how to be physical isn't the biggest turn on for most women. Now I realise that 'if she really likes me she'll accept that part of me', but do I really want to take that risk with someone I've known for a short while?
That's why I was considering the prostitute as well. It would give me some experience, and while it's not much in the grand scheme of things it would at least stop my fear of the unknown and fucking up because of it. Not only that, maybe it will awaken a bit of a desire in sex for me that would cause me to take a bit more charge in that regard than I currently am.
Quite a lot of girls find it very cute and arousing if you're still a virgin. Try finding the positive sides of your predicaments. Obviously you want to change, and that's good. But material gains only help on short term. Getting laid won't make you feel better in the end, but feeling better will get you laid more easily.
Basically you're a good person. Work on yourself, that's always good. But getting laid by a prostitute will just make you feel guilty about it in the end.
Mikau, here's an honest comment by someone who has seen dozens of 20+ virgins and has helped quite a couple of them to get over their issues: You don't care enough. It's not annoying enough to you. You don't hate the way things are right now enough. You don't actually want to change it.
When it comes to things like this life is really, really simple. You're insecure because you have no experience and you're not gaining experience because you're more afraid of having a bad experience than keeping the status quo.
That's why you're looking for a quick fix, hoping it will do the trick for you. However, there is no magic trick, no magic pill you can take. You'd have to get out there and expose yourself to failure, that's how we learn new things.
On December 27 2013 23:54 r.Evo wrote: Mikau, here's an honest comment by someone who has seen dozens of 20+ virgins and has helped quite a couple of them to get over their issues: You don't care enough. It's not annoying enough to you. You don't hate the way things are right now enough. You don't actually want to change it.
When it comes to things like this life is really, really simple. You're insecure because you have no experience and you're not gaining experience because you're more afraid of having a bad experience than keeping the status quo.
That's why you're looking for a quick fix, hoping it will do the trick for you. However, there is no magic trick, no magic pill you can take. You'd have to get out there and expose yourself to failure, that's how we learn new things.
but what exactly are you suggesting by this? There is 2 ways to approach this imo. Either develop a strong enough social circle with equal male and female friends and then naturally lead to sex OR approach a bunch of girls and try the PUA method.
On December 27 2013 23:54 r.Evo wrote: Mikau, here's an honest comment by someone who has seen dozens of 20+ virgins and has helped quite a couple of them to get over their issues: You don't care enough. It's not annoying enough to you. You don't hate the way things are right now enough. You don't actually want to change it.
When it comes to things like this life is really, really simple. You're insecure because you have no experience and you're not gaining experience because you're more afraid of having a bad experience than keeping the status quo.
That's why you're looking for a quick fix, hoping it will do the trick for you. However, there is no magic trick, no magic pill you can take. You'd have to get out there and expose yourself to failure, that's how we learn new things.
but what exactly are you suggesting by this? There is 2 ways to approach this imo. Either develop a strong enough social circle with equal male and female friends and then naturally lead to sex OR approach a bunch of girls and try the PUA method.
There are dozens of ways to "develop a social circle" and there are way more than a dozen "PUA methods" that throwing it all under one hat is incredibly short sighted.
How do you expect someone to get comfortable around women if he avoids being around women? It starts exactly there. He already mentioned that whatever he changed makes him feel better. Great, keep doing it. If there's some form of progress that feels alright tempo wise you're doing something right. If it feels too slow you can ask people who have a better grasp about the subject for suggestions.
Yes, if someone genuinely can say "I'm afraid of being sexually active with women because I am terrified of not knowing what will happen" then a prostitute (or rather someone who also has psychological experience on the topic) can work great. However, it doesn't sound like that's the case here.
The issue is that "How do I get more comfortable around women?" is a retarded question with no real answer besides a generic "Build experience around them!" - You have to ask specific questions to get great answers.
On December 27 2013 17:14 Xenocide_Knight wrote: Oh, and super awesome proposal video man! I personally am really looking forward to the day I get to propose. Assuming I find the right girl and it ends well of course. ^^
It really is a great feeling. Like another person said previously, it's a mixture of nervousness/anxiety, confidence, and happiness, even though you know she'll say yes. It's not so much about wondering if she will say yes or no, but rather hoping that everything you planned goes the way you expected.
Proposals these days are really becoming quite creative (social media makes it seem that way), but it's not necessarily about being creative or going all out. For the woman who loves you, you want it to be memorable obviously, but whether or not it's extravagant, it's simply you that matters to her.
And that's why you went all out to capture the dramatic proposal from three different vantage points.
There are two things I knew when I was planning that proposal:
1) She wanted it to be filmed (her other brother's proposal was filmed, and she liked the idea) 2) She is an outdoor person
On December 27 2013 09:31 IronManSC wrote: I know some of you were dying to see how it all turned out, so I finally got it. A couple months ago I posted this:
On October 23 2013 04:10 IronManSC wrote: On november 2, I'll be proposing to my girlfriend. We're gonna go repelling in the mountains at a 180 ft waterfall. At the bottom will be some GoPro cameras set up (hidden), and i'll have her older brother film it while hiding. When she gets down to the bottom (after I go first), i'll be in the water pond next to the waterfall on one knee :D mabye i'll post the video when the time comes.
On October 23 2013 21:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This is really cute Post the video afterwards!
Well, the video has been created. It still needs minor adjustments and color correctness, but this is it!
To start off, it was on Wednesday. A canyoneering expert we knew, and her oldest brother (a photographer and videographer) all met there to scout out the area and get a general feel and idea of what we need to do to prep. The following saturday, it was my girlfriend (now fiance), myself, and the canyoneerer. We acted totally normal and oblivious to the fact that a proposal might be in store.
When we first arrived and were walking, I whispered to Ben if he saw her brothers arrive, and he said no. I got scared that it wasn't going to be timed right. Well, as grateful to God as I am, it was timed PERFECTLY. They got to their place and set up just 15 minutes before we started repelling. It was a wonderful experience, and our wedding is now on June 22, 2014 Needless to say, my dating experience has been amazing with her.
Enjoy the video, for those who wanted to know how it went.
Wow man, congrats I remember that you said you would do this. I actually almost got a little bit emotional watching this, hahaha. Awesome!
On December 27 2013 17:14 Xenocide_Knight wrote: Oh, and super awesome proposal video man! I personally am really looking forward to the day I get to propose. Assuming I find the right girl and it ends well of course. ^^
It really is a great feeling. Like another person said previously, it's a mixture of nervousness/anxiety, confidence, and happiness, even though you know she'll say yes. It's not so much about wondering if she will say yes or no, but rather hoping that everything you planned goes the way you expected.
Proposals these days are really becoming quite creative (social media makes it seem that way), but it's not necessarily about being creative or going all out. For the woman who loves you, you want it to be memorable obviously, but whether or not it's extravagant, it's simply you that matters to her.
And that's why you went all out to capture the dramatic proposal from three different vantage points.
There are two things I knew when I was planning that proposal:
1) She wanted it to be filmed (her other brother's proposal was filmed, and she liked the idea) 2) She is an outdoor person
On December 27 2013 14:01 rezoacken wrote: I'm not necessarily against the idea but are you really comfortable going from "still a virgin" to "Had sex once, paid for it". I'm just not sure in terms of stigma or self esteem it's better.
Either way I'd still advise to change a few things in your life or attitude first if possible before going that way.
Also I must say, your posts feel revealing to me when you say you see sex only as an added bonus. It certainly isn't a really good attitude to have if you're looking for a relationship. Sex usually comes first and then if things clicks after a while it evolves into a real romantic relationship. Not the other way around. It's "I'm attracted to you, let's have some fun. And you're even a good person ! Let's marry and make kids." and not "You're a good person, let's marry. Oh and yeah there's this thing called sex". Not saying it never happens this way but I'd say it's not... "healthy".
In other words, maybe wanting sex would be a good first step.
This is not true at all in my experience. All my friends first developed a relationship (and myself included) and only then got to the sex part. The only instances where sex came first were one night stands (but only few of my friends actually do that kind of thing).
So I would say it depends. Certainly, this is not a general rule...
But you were still looking for sex. Maybe my choice of words was poor and my point came across as too categorical or badly illustrated my thoughts.
What I meant is that you were at least as much interested by sex as the relationship compared to only be with someone and put sex only as an afterthought. If someone was agreeing to have a relation with you but would say no to sex (forever, not only before marriage), I'd guess it wouldn't work for a lot people.
I also only wanted to point out that trying to lose your virginity without being interested in sex is discordant.
On December 27 2013 09:31 IronManSC wrote: I know some of you were dying to see how it all turned out, so I finally got it. A couple months ago I posted this:
On October 23 2013 04:10 IronManSC wrote: On november 2, I'll be proposing to my girlfriend. We're gonna go repelling in the mountains at a 180 ft waterfall. At the bottom will be some GoPro cameras set up (hidden), and i'll have her older brother film it while hiding. When she gets down to the bottom (after I go first), i'll be in the water pond next to the waterfall on one knee :D mabye i'll post the video when the time comes.
On October 23 2013 21:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This is really cute Post the video afterwards!
Well, the video has been created. It still needs minor adjustments and color correctness, but this is it!
To start off, it was on Wednesday. A canyoneering expert we knew, and her oldest brother (a photographer and videographer) all met there to scout out the area and get a general feel and idea of what we need to do to prep. The following saturday, it was my girlfriend (now fiance), myself, and the canyoneerer. We acted totally normal and oblivious to the fact that a proposal might be in store.
When we first arrived and were walking, I whispered to Ben if he saw her brothers arrive, and he said no. I got scared that it wasn't going to be timed right. Well, as grateful to God as I am, it was timed PERFECTLY. They got to their place and set up just 15 minutes before we started repelling. It was a wonderful experience, and our wedding is now on June 22, 2014 Needless to say, my dating experience has been amazing with her.
Enjoy the video, for those who wanted to know how it went.
On December 27 2013 09:11 Mikau wrote: I'm so tired of being a virgin at almost 25 and the insecurity around women it causes that I'm seriously considering losing my virginity to a prostitute. Not just a random streetwhore though, but a bit more high class, one that knows about my situation and is ok with being my first and 'teaching' me.
Spending a night with a prostitute will do nothing for your insecurity around women. My advice to you if you really want to overcome this is to find 20 girls who are the right amount of drunk, and tell them your life situation; one of them will undoubtedly be happy to help you out.
I'm not sure about this. My instinct is to agree, but if being a virgin is the cause of his imsecurity, it could work. Same as girls who get boobjobs feel more secure (if they get a boobjob because they feel insecure about having small boobs).
Of course,it really depends on whether it is truly the reason, or it's just a symptom, in which case sleeping with a prostitute won't do anything useful, except maybe give him a nice night of sex.
Having only slept with a prostitute would make me more insecure since I'd feel much more embarrassed about that than being a virgin. Maybe in a culture where prostitution is more acceptable it'd be different though.
On December 27 2013 14:01 rezoacken wrote: I'm not necessarily against the idea but are you really comfortable going from "still a virgin" to "Had sex once, paid for it". I'm just not sure in terms of stigma or self esteem it's better.
Either way I'd still advise to change a few things in your life or attitude first if possible before going that way.
Also I must say, your posts feel revealing to me when you say you see sex only as an added bonus. It certainly isn't a really good attitude to have if you're looking for a relationship. Sex usually comes first and then if things clicks after a while it evolves into a real romantic relationship. Not the other way around. It's "I'm attracted to you, let's have some fun. And you're even a good person ! Let's marry and make kids." and not "You're a good person, let's marry. Oh and yeah there's this thing called sex". Not saying it never happens this way but I'd say it's not... "healthy".
In other words, maybe wanting sex would be a good first step.
All human beings up til the 50s disagree with you... as do devout catholics around the world.
On December 27 2013 14:01 rezoacken wrote: I'm not necessarily against the idea but are you really comfortable going from "still a virgin" to "Had sex once, paid for it". I'm just not sure in terms of stigma or self esteem it's better.
Either way I'd still advise to change a few things in your life or attitude first if possible before going that way.
Also I must say, your posts feel revealing to me when you say you see sex only as an added bonus. It certainly isn't a really good attitude to have if you're looking for a relationship. Sex usually comes first and then if things clicks after a while it evolves into a real romantic relationship. Not the other way around. It's "I'm attracted to you, let's have some fun. And you're even a good person ! Let's marry and make kids." and not "You're a good person, let's marry. Oh and yeah there's this thing called sex". Not saying it never happens this way but I'd say it's not... "healthy".
In other words, maybe wanting sex would be a good first step.
This is not true at all in my experience. All my friends first developed a relationship (and myself included) and only then got to the sex part. The only instances where sex came first were one night stands (but only few of my friends actually do that kind of thing).
So I would say it depends. Certainly, this is not a general rule...
A majority of people will have sex first before it's an official, exclusive relationship. It doesn't mean they're only after sex. Sex is a big part of a relationship, and if one person is really bad at it or one person wants it way more often than the other, it isn't gonna work. It's like test driving a car before buying it. No different than making sure your personalities match up in whatever ways your deem important.
Ignoring one of the most important factors in a relationship until after marriage isn't exactly smart. You are rolling the dice that you will be compatible rather than just finding out so no one wastes their time. What happens if she wants it every day, and you're up for it once every other week?
There's a reason that this line of thinking has mostly died out. Most people would rather take the time to find a person that is compatible with them in all things, including sex, rather than waiting til marriage where one person has to settle and be angry all the time or divorce.
as for virgin guy, don't get the hooker. A) one time isn't gonna suddenly make you a porn star b) it's not exactly rocket science and c) saying I lost it to a hooker isn't exactly gonna make you happy, nor be impressive to other people.
keep on working on you with the weight thing, and your confidence will increase. the only way you get experience is by trying. go to a bar and get a girl's number and then ask her out to dinner the next day, or get on a dating site
On December 27 2013 09:31 IronManSC wrote: I know some of you were dying to see how it all turned out, so I finally got it. A couple months ago I posted this:
On October 23 2013 04:10 IronManSC wrote: On november 2, I'll be proposing to my girlfriend. We're gonna go repelling in the mountains at a 180 ft waterfall. At the bottom will be some GoPro cameras set up (hidden), and i'll have her older brother film it while hiding. When she gets down to the bottom (after I go first), i'll be in the water pond next to the waterfall on one knee :D mabye i'll post the video when the time comes.
One person responded:
On October 23 2013 21:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This is really cute Post the video afterwards!
Well, the video has been created. It still needs minor adjustments and color correctness, but this is it!
To start off, it was on Wednesday. A canyoneering expert we knew, and her oldest brother (a photographer and videographer) all met there to scout out the area and get a general feel and idea of what we need to do to prep. The following saturday, it was my girlfriend (now fiance), myself, and the canyoneerer. We acted totally normal and oblivious to the fact that a proposal might be in store.
When we first arrived and were walking, I whispered to Ben if he saw her brothers arrive, and he said no. I got scared that it wasn't going to be timed right. Well, as grateful to God as I am, it was timed PERFECTLY. They got to their place and set up just 15 minutes before we started repelling. It was a wonderful experience, and our wedding is now on June 22, 2014 Needless to say, my dating experience has been amazing with her.
Enjoy the video, for those who wanted to know how it went.
On December 27 2013 14:01 rezoacken wrote: I'm not necessarily against the idea but are you really comfortable going from "still a virgin" to "Had sex once, paid for it". I'm just not sure in terms of stigma or self esteem it's better.
Either way I'd still advise to change a few things in your life or attitude first if possible before going that way.
Also I must say, your posts feel revealing to me when you say you see sex only as an added bonus. It certainly isn't a really good attitude to have if you're looking for a relationship. Sex usually comes first and then if things clicks after a while it evolves into a real romantic relationship. Not the other way around. It's "I'm attracted to you, let's have some fun. And you're even a good person ! Let's marry and make kids." and not "You're a good person, let's marry. Oh and yeah there's this thing called sex". Not saying it never happens this way but I'd say it's not... "healthy".
In other words, maybe wanting sex would be a good first step.
All human beings up til the 50s disagree with you... as do devout catholics around the world.
Yeah, now that I reread it it doesn't really rings true either for me, not the way I put it at least. See my next comment (as a reply to somebody else) for more refined thoughts on this. Posted this last night without thinking about it enough. A short way of saying what I really wanted to say would be "Trying to be in a relationship without being interested by sex is discordant in my book" as a reply to Makau. And I acknowledge this is an opinion, everyone is free to argue their platonic relationship is good.
My position is probably still opposite of devout catholics either way. But that would be a minor detail in the ocean of stuff I'd disagree with said people.
Hold on, I never said I wasn't interested in sex. I just said that it wasn't my primary motivator for wanting to meet a girl, or being with a girl.
And I guess people here are probably right in saying "keep improving yourself, make more of an effort to meet people and it'll come naturally" (did I summarize that right Hawk, Evo and others? ). The problem is I've been told that an awful lot over the years and I'm getting tired of hearing it. It's a slow process (at least for me, at the moment) and I'm tired of it personally. I realise sleeping with a prostitute is likely to not solve my underlying problems and it's also something I can't take back and will carry with me forever (though saying it like that makes it sound a tad melodramatic).
This is turning into an interesting discussion btw.
On December 27 2013 14:01 rezoacken wrote: I'm not necessarily against the idea but are you really comfortable going from "still a virgin" to "Had sex once, paid for it". I'm just not sure in terms of stigma or self esteem it's better.
Either way I'd still advise to change a few things in your life or attitude first if possible before going that way.
Also I must say, your posts feel revealing to me when you say you see sex only as an added bonus. It certainly isn't a really good attitude to have if you're looking for a relationship. Sex usually comes first and then if things clicks after a while it evolves into a real romantic relationship. Not the other way around. It's "I'm attracted to you, let's have some fun. And you're even a good person ! Let's marry and make kids." and not "You're a good person, let's marry. Oh and yeah there's this thing called sex". Not saying it never happens this way but I'd say it's not... "healthy".
In other words, maybe wanting sex would be a good first step.
This is not true at all in my experience. All my friends first developed a relationship (and myself included) and only then got to the sex part. The only instances where sex came first were one night stands (but only few of my friends actually do that kind of thing).
So I would say it depends. Certainly, this is not a general rule...
A majority of people will have sex first before it's an official, exclusive relationship. It doesn't mean they're only after sex. Sex is a big part of a relationship, and if one person is really bad at it or one person wants it way more often than the other, it isn't gonna work. It's like test driving a car before buying it. No different than making sure your personalities match up in whatever ways your deem important.
Ignoring one of the most important factors in a relationship until after marriage isn't exactly smart. You are rolling the dice that you will be compatible rather than just finding out so no one wastes their time. What happens if she wants it every day, and you're up for it once every other week?
There's a reason that this line of thinking has mostly died out. Most people would rather take the time to find a person that is compatible with them in all things, including sex, rather than waiting til marriage where one person has to settle and be angry all the time or divorce.
as for virgin guy, don't get the hooker. A) one time isn't gonna suddenly make you a porn star b) it's not exactly rocket science and c) saying I lost it to a hooker isn't exactly gonna make you happy, nor be impressive to other people.
keep on working on you with the weight thing, and your confidence will increase. the only way you get experience is by trying. go to a bar and get a girl's number and then ask her out to dinner the next day, or get on a dating site
You really should not generalize like that. This may hold true when it comes to your circle of friends or even your country, but it's blatantly not true for people I interact with on a daily basis... And who's talking about "only after marriage"? A relationship does not have to be a marriage to be exclusive. Do you sleep around when you're in a relationship?
edit:
To make things clear. We were not talking about an official relationship, e.g. marriage. We were talking about a romantic relationship. In my experience (talking about myself and my friends) it's: developing (deep) emotional attachment -> having sex (-> potentially making the relationship formal by getting married).
I know some people who do have one night stands or friends with benefits - I don't know of a single case where such casual sex developed into a meaningful relationship. There is a chance that this has happened to some of them, but it's a statistically insignificant group (talking about my circle of friends, perhaps it's different for different countries/cultures). Aside from people who just want to have casual sex, there could be people who are looking for a relationship but choose to have sex early at the dating stage, before they develop any real feeling for the other person. Personally, I don't know anyone who does that.
EPT
Post the video afterwards! 
). The problem is I've been told that an awful lot over the years and I'm getting tired of hearing it. It's a slow process (at least for me, at the moment) and I'm tired of it personally. I realise sleeping with a prostitute is likely to not solve my underlying problems and it's also something I can't take back and will carry with me forever (though saying it like that makes it sound a tad melodramatic). 
