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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On September 12 2013 23:16 kaykaykay wrote:
So this girl i like in school, ( she's 18. real athlete type, swims, tennis and just gives people the "I'm always improving" vibe which i find really attractive. )
During the holidays, we went out together in a group once, we had fun and everything and i tried to escalate things from there.
However when school started, she has her own group of friends and I kinda botched things with a letter.
She said she lost the letter I wrote asking her out which I find it hard to believe hahaha I might be wrong though.
today we met up for some extra curricular activities and during the exercise, we had to write each other letters.
She tells me to continue being mysterious, knowledgeable and confident, that I'm reliable. ( yes I help her too damn much, she's the president of my club )
how would you carry on from here? I'm trying to encourage more communication between us because I find that lacking sorely..
meeting said girl for an ice cream carnival about 5 hours from now.
she proposed we travel there together to which i readily said yes.
I don't know how to feel, help..
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On October 12 2013 08:44 kaykaykay wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 23:16 kaykaykay wrote:
So this girl i like in school, ( she's 18. real athlete type, swims, tennis and just gives people the "I'm always improving" vibe which i find really attractive. )
During the holidays, we went out together in a group once, we had fun and everything and i tried to escalate things from there.
However when school started, she has her own group of friends and I kinda botched things with a letter.
She said she lost the letter I wrote asking her out which I find it hard to believe hahaha I might be wrong though.
today we met up for some extra curricular activities and during the exercise, we had to write each other letters.
She tells me to continue being mysterious, knowledgeable and confident, that I'm reliable. ( yes I help her too damn much, she's the president of my club )
how would you carry on from here? I'm trying to encourage more communication between us because I find that lacking sorely.. meeting said girl for an ice cream carnival about 5 hours from now. she proposed we travel there together to which i readily said yes. I don't know how to feel, help..
'You find her attractice? Go spend time with her see if you enjoy being together and then get to know her.
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An update on how the day went,
some ex classmate of hers we saw at the carnival tried to pick her up with a really bad one liner to which I could tell she was really confused, to a slighter extent annoyed by it.
The conversations we had felt really natural although she had to leave early.
I'm not sure if what I sensed was attraction when she said bye to everyone but me last as though she was subconsciously waiting for my approval.
takeaway of the day: Women can smell desperation a mile away.
I'll try to ask her out another day.
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So yeah, it's been 2 months since I had a breakup, and I'm really confused. Should I start pursuing other girls even though I can't stop thinking about my ex, or should I just wait it out and focus on myself? I feel like I should at least get some of my frustration out and make out with some girls, after all I'm in college, but I don't really understand when the time is right. Any suggestions would be nice.
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On October 13 2013 01:13 docvoc wrote:
So yeah, it's been 2 months since I had a breakup, and I'm really confused. Should I start pursuing other girls even though I can't stop thinking about my ex, or should I just wait it out and focus on myself? I feel like I should at least get some of my frustration out and make out with some girls, after all I'm in college, but I don't really understand when the time is right. Any suggestions would be nice.
Thats not really something anyone can help you with, everyone has their own way to deal with this kind of shit. If its clear its not serious you can just try something with someone else and see how it feels, even if you are not over your ex
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On October 13 2013 01:13 docvoc wrote:
So yeah, it's been 2 months since I had a breakup, and I'm really confused. Should I start pursuing other girls even though I can't stop thinking about my ex, or should I just wait it out and focus on myself? I feel like I should at least get some of my frustration out and make out with some girls, after all I'm in college, but I don't really understand when the time is right. Any suggestions would be nice.
For me, I was recommended to look for "other fish in the sea" but I just couldn't get into it. 2 months is not so bad, no one knows when it's time to move on better than yourself.
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On October 13 2013 01:13 docvoc wrote:
So yeah, it's been 2 months since I had a breakup, and I'm really confused. Should I start pursuing other girls even though I can't stop thinking about my ex, or should I just wait it out and focus on myself? I feel like I should at least get some of my frustration out and make out with some girls, after all I'm in college, but I don't really understand when the time is right. Any suggestions would be nice.
Honestly, I believe that it will only result in more hurt feelings and wont develop you as a person. The time is right when you firmly believe that you don't need her. If you are genuinely interested in someone, then get to know that person.
IMO just because 'you're in college' doesn't justify trying to get easy lays.
If there is a lot frustration in you, find a way to let it out of you. Maybe you'll hit the gym, maybe you'll go running. Maybe you will talk to some friends. Honestly, I've found a lot of relief in simply talking to my friends about such situations, even though I wasnt specifically looking for advice and what I was going to do didn't change after talking to that person. Just by talking you can really relieve a lot of the frustration inside you and think freely again.
Find peace and then find the girls. I cant see you feeling any better by having easy lays.
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On October 13 2013 02:21 Ahzz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 01:13 docvoc wrote:
So yeah, it's been 2 months since I had a breakup, and I'm really confused. Should I start pursuing other girls even though I can't stop thinking about my ex, or should I just wait it out and focus on myself? I feel like I should at least get some of my frustration out and make out with some girls, after all I'm in college, but I don't really understand when the time is right. Any suggestions would be nice. Honestly, I believe that it will only result in more hurt feelings and wont develop you as a person. The time is right when you firmly believe that you don't need her. If you are genuinely interested in someone, then get to know that person. IMO just because 'you're in college' doesn't justify trying to get easy lays. If there is a lot frustration in you, find a way to let it out of you. Maybe you'll hit the gym, maybe you'll go running. Maybe you will talk to some friends. Honestly, I've found a lot of relief in simply talking to my friends about such situations, even though I wasnt specifically looking for advice and what I was going to do didn't change after talking to that person. Just by talking you can really relieve a lot of the frustration inside you and think freely again. Find peace and then find the girls. I cant see you feeling any better by having easy lays.
I feel like it's something I'd do and then feel like shit for doing it. Like, something to do just to do it and then feel absolutely nothing from it. It's weird because I have such an urge to do that, but I know I won't get anything out of it.
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On October 13 2013 01:13 docvoc wrote:
So yeah, it's been 2 months since I had a breakup, and I'm really confused. Should I start pursuing other girls even though I can't stop thinking about my ex, or should I just wait it out and focus on myself? I feel like I should at least get some of my frustration out and make out with some girls, after all I'm in college, but I don't really understand when the time is right. Any suggestions would be nice.
a more important factor is how long the relationship lasted, not how long since the break up. i have heard a rule of 50%; you should wait half the time your relationship lasted to date again. i think thats excessive as it depends on too many factors. however, if you get involved in a new relationship too soon and are on the rebound there is greater chance that you will make bad choices with your new girl so either do casual dates with no commitment expected (on both sides, dont be an ass), or focus on yourself.
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On October 13 2013 02:48 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 02:21 Ahzz wrote:On October 13 2013 01:13 docvoc wrote:
So yeah, it's been 2 months since I had a breakup, and I'm really confused. Should I start pursuing other girls even though I can't stop thinking about my ex, or should I just wait it out and focus on myself? I feel like I should at least get some of my frustration out and make out with some girls, after all I'm in college, but I don't really understand when the time is right. Any suggestions would be nice. Honestly, I believe that it will only result in more hurt feelings and wont develop you as a person. The time is right when you firmly believe that you don't need her. If you are genuinely interested in someone, then get to know that person. IMO just because 'you're in college' doesn't justify trying to get easy lays. If there is a lot frustration in you, find a way to let it out of you. Maybe you'll hit the gym, maybe you'll go running. Maybe you will talk to some friends. Honestly, I've found a lot of relief in simply talking to my friends about such situations, even though I wasnt specifically looking for advice and what I was going to do didn't change after talking to that person. Just by talking you can really relieve a lot of the frustration inside you and think freely again. Find peace and then find the girls. I cant see you feeling any better by having easy lays. I feel like it's something I'd do and then feel like shit for doing it. Like, something to do just to do it and then feel absolutely nothing from it. It's weird because I have such an urge to do that, but I know I won't get anything out of it.
There, you have the answer to your question. Focus on yourself and your studies.
Plus, you're a writer, aren't you? Channel some of that frustration/confusion into your writing (I personally recommend short stories). It does wonders for mental health and will improve your writing. If that's not enough, pick up another hobby (kendo is soooooooooo good for venting) or focus extra hard on schoolwork.
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On October 13 2013 02:48 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 02:21 Ahzz wrote:On October 13 2013 01:13 docvoc wrote:
So yeah, it's been 2 months since I had a breakup, and I'm really confused. Should I start pursuing other girls even though I can't stop thinking about my ex, or should I just wait it out and focus on myself? I feel like I should at least get some of my frustration out and make out with some girls, after all I'm in college, but I don't really understand when the time is right. Any suggestions would be nice. Honestly, I believe that it will only result in more hurt feelings and wont develop you as a person. The time is right when you firmly believe that you don't need her. If you are genuinely interested in someone, then get to know that person. IMO just because 'you're in college' doesn't justify trying to get easy lays. If there is a lot frustration in you, find a way to let it out of you. Maybe you'll hit the gym, maybe you'll go running. Maybe you will talk to some friends. Honestly, I've found a lot of relief in simply talking to my friends about such situations, even though I wasnt specifically looking for advice and what I was going to do didn't change after talking to that person. Just by talking you can really relieve a lot of the frustration inside you and think freely again. Find peace and then find the girls. I cant see you feeling any better by having easy lays. I feel like it's something I'd do and then feel like shit for doing it. Like, something to do just to do it and then feel absolutely nothing from it. It's weird because I have such an urge to do that, but I know I won't get anything out of it.
There's a difference between feeling shitty, going out to have sex with a random person to feel less shitty (yeah, right) and feeling shitty, going out to meet random people and end up having sex with them.
Both look pretty much the same from the outside but I see no issue at all with the latter. Why not go out and meet new people? If things feel cool, move forward. If they don't, cool, found some new friends.
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For everyone that has responded to me, I don't want to quote 4 people in one text, or else this becomes General forum  .
Basically, yeah I know I should wait a bit. I have been going out and meeting people. The only issue is that I've been in withdrawals and heavily depressed since the break up. My goal is to meet 1000 people before I've left my small campus. I'm pretty social, though not as social as I normally am when I'm not so sad from a break up.
As for the sex part, the idea is just something to do to do it. I don't expect any serious dating, in fact I want to stay away from serious dating for a while. A long while. I expect what I put in to a relationship to be reciprocated, so if it's not much on my end, it's not much on their end.
Finally, Daph the relationship lasted a year and just about 8 months. Evo, that's kinda what I've been doing, and I'm thinking about joining a fraternity to continue meting new friend.
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So like all guys I do my fair share of bending the truth (aka lying) in order to get women I like into bed. Unfortunately this has backfired on me hardcore tonight. While in conversation with a girl I asked her what her favourite movies are. Normally I'd respond to this by ignoring all the shitty movies she probably likes and just talking about the one/two okay ones. However, this girl was like, "Well I know it's really cheesy but my favourite film is Titanic". I should mention that this girl is a good 8-9/10 so against all my better judgement I pretended to like such a shit movie and now she's going to make me sit through all 3 hours+ of it tonight while I pretend to like it.
On October 13 2013 00:54 kaykaykay wrote:
An update on how the day went,
some ex classmate of hers we saw at the carnival tried to pick her up with a really bad one liner to which I could tell she was really confused, to a slighter extent annoyed by it.
The conversations we had felt really natural although she had to leave early.
I'm not sure if what I sensed was attraction when she said bye to everyone but me last as though she was subconsciously waiting for my approval.
takeaway of the day: Women can smell desperation a mile away.
I'll try to ask her out another day.
The annoying thing about women is that if a man does something like ask a girl to travel to some group event with him (unless you're already really good friends or live next to each other) then there's a 99% chance he's trying to get some.
Unfortunately women aren't nearly as predictable but I'd say it's almost certainly not a bad thing. Just ask her out asap before someone else does without using a shitty one liner. Most girls don't actually get asked out that often by non weird/creepy guys so usually, for me at least, they say yes if they're single.
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Well, maybe it will open your mind to the fact that, actually, Titanic is a very good movie.
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On October 13 2013 03:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:So like all guys I do my fair share of bending the truth (aka lying) in order to get women I like into bed. Unfortunately this has backfired on me hardcore tonight. While in conversation with a girl I asked her what her favourite movies are. Normally I'd respond to this by ignoring all the shitty movies she probably likes and just talking about the one/two okay ones. However, this girl was like, "Well I know it's really cheesy but my favourite film is Titanic". I should mention that this girl is a good 8-9/10 so against all my better judgement I pretended to like such a shit movie and now she's going to make me sit through all 3 hours+ of it tonight while I pretend to like it. Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 00:54 kaykaykay wrote:
An update on how the day went,
some ex classmate of hers we saw at the carnival tried to pick her up with a really bad one liner to which I could tell she was really confused, to a slighter extent annoyed by it.
The conversations we had felt really natural although she had to leave early.
I'm not sure if what I sensed was attraction when she said bye to everyone but me last as though she was subconsciously waiting for my approval.
takeaway of the day: Women can smell desperation a mile away.
I'll try to ask her out another day.
The annoying thing about women is that if a man does something like ask a girl to travel to some group event with him (unless you're already really good friends or live next to each other) then there's a 99% chance he's trying to get some. Unfortunately women aren't nearly as predictable but I'd say it's almost certainly not a bad thing. Just ask her out asap before someone else does without using a shitty one liner. Most girls don't actually get asked out that often by non weird/creepy guys so usually, for me at least, they say yes if they're single.
You can't be serious. You're not looking forward to watching a movie with an attractive girl just because it's titanic. Really? I fucking saw What To Expect When You're Expecting with my ex because her family paid us to see it. A date is a date dude.
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On October 13 2013 03:47 corumjhaelen wrote:
Well, maybe it will open your mind to the fact that, actually, Titanic is a very good movie.
No it's not. It's long and terrible.
On October 13 2013 03:51 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 03:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:So like all guys I do my fair share of bending the truth (aka lying) in order to get women I like into bed. Unfortunately this has backfired on me hardcore tonight. While in conversation with a girl I asked her what her favourite movies are. Normally I'd respond to this by ignoring all the shitty movies she probably likes and just talking about the one/two okay ones. However, this girl was like, "Well I know it's really cheesy but my favourite film is Titanic". I should mention that this girl is a good 8-9/10 so against all my better judgement I pretended to like such a shit movie and now she's going to make me sit through all 3 hours+ of it tonight while I pretend to like it. On October 13 2013 00:54 kaykaykay wrote:
An update on how the day went,
some ex classmate of hers we saw at the carnival tried to pick her up with a really bad one liner to which I could tell she was really confused, to a slighter extent annoyed by it.
The conversations we had felt really natural although she had to leave early.
I'm not sure if what I sensed was attraction when she said bye to everyone but me last as though she was subconsciously waiting for my approval.
takeaway of the day: Women can smell desperation a mile away.
I'll try to ask her out another day.
The annoying thing about women is that if a man does something like ask a girl to travel to some group event with him (unless you're already really good friends or live next to each other) then there's a 99% chance he's trying to get some. Unfortunately women aren't nearly as predictable but I'd say it's almost certainly not a bad thing. Just ask her out asap before someone else does without using a shitty one liner. Most girls don't actually get asked out that often by non weird/creepy guys so usually, for me at least, they say yes if they're single. You can't be serious. You're not looking forward to watching a movie with an attractive girl just because it's titanic. Really? I fucking saw What To Expect When You're Expecting with my ex because her family paid us to see it. A date is a date dude.
Well I could go to a club instead where there's loads of attractive girls who won't make me watch it. I have an awesome plan now anyway to double down on my lying to get sex without having to sit through 3 hours of Leonard Di Caprio and Celine Dion.
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On October 13 2013 04:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 03:47 corumjhaelen wrote:
Well, maybe it will open your mind to the fact that, actually, Titanic is a very good movie. No it's not. It's long and terrible. Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 03:51 docvoc wrote:On October 13 2013 03:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:So like all guys I do my fair share of bending the truth (aka lying) in order to get women I like into bed. Unfortunately this has backfired on me hardcore tonight. While in conversation with a girl I asked her what her favourite movies are. Normally I'd respond to this by ignoring all the shitty movies she probably likes and just talking about the one/two okay ones. However, this girl was like, "Well I know it's really cheesy but my favourite film is Titanic". I should mention that this girl is a good 8-9/10 so against all my better judgement I pretended to like such a shit movie and now she's going to make me sit through all 3 hours+ of it tonight while I pretend to like it. On October 13 2013 00:54 kaykaykay wrote:
An update on how the day went,
some ex classmate of hers we saw at the carnival tried to pick her up with a really bad one liner to which I could tell she was really confused, to a slighter extent annoyed by it.
The conversations we had felt really natural although she had to leave early.
I'm not sure if what I sensed was attraction when she said bye to everyone but me last as though she was subconsciously waiting for my approval.
takeaway of the day: Women can smell desperation a mile away.
Lying might be the absolute worst way of doing this. You literally fall apart and lose the people you build reputations with because of that. You don't have to lie to get into a girl's pants.
I'll try to ask her out another day.
The annoying thing about women is that if a man does something like ask a girl to travel to some group event with him (unless you're already really good friends or live next to each other) then there's a 99% chance he's trying to get some. Unfortunately women aren't nearly as predictable but I'd say it's almost certainly not a bad thing. Just ask her out asap before someone else does without using a shitty one liner. Most girls don't actually get asked out that often by non weird/creepy guys so usually, for me at least, they say yes if they're single. You can't be serious. You're not looking forward to watching a movie with an attractive girl just because it's titanic. Really? I fucking saw What To Expect When You're Expecting with my ex because her family paid us to see it. A date is a date dude. Well I could go to a club instead where there's loads of attractive girls who won't make me watch it. I have an awesome plan now anyway to double down on my lying to get sex without having to sit through 3 hours of Leonard Di Caprio and Celine Dion.
You don't have to lie to get into a girl's pants.
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edit I apparently double posted. Sorry.
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On October 13 2013 04:20 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 04:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On October 13 2013 03:47 corumjhaelen wrote:
Well, maybe it will open your mind to the fact that, actually, Titanic is a very good movie. No it's not. It's long and terrible. On October 13 2013 03:51 docvoc wrote:On October 13 2013 03:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:So like all guys I do my fair share of bending the truth (aka lying) in order to get women I like into bed. Unfortunately this has backfired on me hardcore tonight. While in conversation with a girl I asked her what her favourite movies are. Normally I'd respond to this by ignoring all the shitty movies she probably likes and just talking about the one/two okay ones. However, this girl was like, "Well I know it's really cheesy but my favourite film is Titanic". I should mention that this girl is a good 8-9/10 so against all my better judgement I pretended to like such a shit movie and now she's going to make me sit through all 3 hours+ of it tonight while I pretend to like it. On October 13 2013 00:54 kaykaykay wrote:
An update on how the day went,
some ex classmate of hers we saw at the carnival tried to pick her up with a really bad one liner to which I could tell she was really confused, to a slighter extent annoyed by it.
The conversations we had felt really natural although she had to leave early.
I'm not sure if what I sensed was attraction when she said bye to everyone but me last as though she was subconsciously waiting for my approval.
takeaway of the day: Women can smell desperation a mile away.
Lying might be the absolute worst way of doing this. You literally fall apart and lose the people you build reputations with because of that. You don't have to lie to get into a girl's pants.
I'll try to ask her out another day.
The annoying thing about women is that if a man does something like ask a girl to travel to some group event with him (unless you're already really good friends or live next to each other) then there's a 99% chance he's trying to get some. Unfortunately women aren't nearly as predictable but I'd say it's almost certainly not a bad thing. Just ask her out asap before someone else does without using a shitty one liner. Most girls don't actually get asked out that often by non weird/creepy guys so usually, for me at least, they say yes if they're single. You can't be serious. You're not looking forward to watching a movie with an attractive girl just because it's titanic. Really? I fucking saw What To Expect When You're Expecting with my ex because her family paid us to see it. A date is a date dude. Well I could go to a club instead where there's loads of attractive girls who won't make me watch it. I have an awesome plan now anyway to double down on my lying to get sex without having to sit through 3 hours of Leonard Di Caprio and Celine Dion. You don't have to lie to get into a girl's pants.
Well obviously lying isn't the only way to get girls but there are many occasions when it can increase your chances.
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On October 13 2013 04:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 04:20 docvoc wrote:On October 13 2013 04:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On October 13 2013 03:47 corumjhaelen wrote:
Well, maybe it will open your mind to the fact that, actually, Titanic is a very good movie. No it's not. It's long and terrible. On October 13 2013 03:51 docvoc wrote:On October 13 2013 03:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:So like all guys I do my fair share of bending the truth (aka lying) in order to get women I like into bed. Unfortunately this has backfired on me hardcore tonight. While in conversation with a girl I asked her what her favourite movies are. Normally I'd respond to this by ignoring all the shitty movies she probably likes and just talking about the one/two okay ones. However, this girl was like, "Well I know it's really cheesy but my favourite film is Titanic". I should mention that this girl is a good 8-9/10 so against all my better judgement I pretended to like such a shit movie and now she's going to make me sit through all 3 hours+ of it tonight while I pretend to like it. On October 13 2013 00:54 kaykaykay wrote:
An update on how the day went,
some ex classmate of hers we saw at the carnival tried to pick her up with a really bad one liner to which I could tell she was really confused, to a slighter extent annoyed by it.
The conversations we had felt really natural although she had to leave early.
I'm not sure if what I sensed was attraction when she said bye to everyone but me last as though she was subconsciously waiting for my approval.
takeaway of the day: Women can smell desperation a mile away.
Lying might be the absolute worst way of doing this. You literally fall apart and lose the people you build reputations with because of that. You don't have to lie to get into a girl's pants.
I'll try to ask her out another day.
The annoying thing about women is that if a man does something like ask a girl to travel to some group event with him (unless you're already really good friends or live next to each other) then there's a 99% chance he's trying to get some. Unfortunately women aren't nearly as predictable but I'd say it's almost certainly not a bad thing. Just ask her out asap before someone else does without using a shitty one liner. Most girls don't actually get asked out that often by non weird/creepy guys so usually, for me at least, they say yes if they're single. You can't be serious. You're not looking forward to watching a movie with an attractive girl just because it's titanic. Really? I fucking saw What To Expect When You're Expecting with my ex because her family paid us to see it. A date is a date dude. Well I could go to a club instead where there's loads of attractive girls who won't make me watch it. I have an awesome plan now anyway to double down on my lying to get sex without having to sit through 3 hours of Leonard Di Caprio and Celine Dion. You don't have to lie to get into a girl's pants. Well obviously lying isn't the only way to get girls but there are many occasions when it can increase your chances.
In general, women have waaay better people reading skills than men. You may think they believe your lies but most of the time they really don't. They know what kind of a person you are and are just using you for the time you are there. Since they know you are a liar, they don't expect anything long term from you and will general discard you once their needs are met and they no longer have a use for you. The funny thing is, they probably would have used you regardless of whether or not you lied but you managed to forfeit any chance of something more by lying.
Perhaps this isn't the case here and you fooled these girls but I imagine they are manipulating you into watching a movie you don't want to watch simply because they want company to watch it and don't really care whether you want to watch it or not.
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EPT
