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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On August 24 2013 09:50 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 09:41 goMERICA wrote:On August 24 2013 09:33 QuanticHawk wrote:'"turn into the person you want to be and be happy about the way you truely are" - which in turn is attractive as hell. Just to get there you need better advice than "just be yourself and be confident".' i agree with this and understand why people seek out something more constructive than just be yourself and be confident. i just think that, more often than not, for whatever reason, people who pursue pua stuff end up being those creepy robots you and i mentioned. going with the sc analogy, it's like people attempting to mimic a build without understanding what the hell they are doing. i dont know if it just that most people who learn about pua are not too social normally or what, but it just seems like there's a lot of people who sound like that blog. i forgot the groups are called lairs. that just seems like such a creepy choice of words ahahah On August 24 2013 09:32 goMERICA wrote:
I would disagree that those are the only guys who can explain how/why stuff works in detail. Ask any man who gets laid no strings attached often, is friends with girls, and doesn't mistreat the hell out of women and he should be able to tell you what's going on. Or just ask a woman because they are pretty socially adept in general. Definitely not true. They're not the only ones who understand how stuff works, but a lot of people have no idea why the hell they're successful. That's true for just about anything though. You can be good at something, but it doesn't mean you're a good teacher at that skill. Haha like Joey from friends? Yeah some people get by on looks of course. I guess haha. I honestly never watched friends much growing up, and my gf always yells at me for that lol. I'm not even really talking about looks so much, but that obviously helps. I'm talking about charisma, taste, style... those are all kinda hard things to explain to someone! that is what r.evo is getting at.
I don't think that stuff has much to do with the "art of the pickup" that PUAs talk about at all. But perhaps we should move onto another topic because I think we all have reached a point of agreement of sorts.
On another note, it's funny that you should say your GF yells at you about Friends. I've been talkin to this girl for a while and we have gotten along great. Conversations go on for hours and we make each other laugh. Yesterday we got to speaking about TV shows and the show Friends comes up after we list a bunch that we both like. After I tell her I disliked the show because the guy characters were so girly, she texts "WOW OK BYE" and absolutely would not respond. Haha what the hell. Sent her a text rapping the song Holy Grail in emojis and she finally responded though. Some girls seem to take the show Friends very seriously.
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On August 24 2013 09:46 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 09:06 r.Evo wrote:
It might be more of a European thing but e.g. in the lairs I've been with people always make the exact same jokes about social robots, people who only think in sets or value and can only speak in "pua speak".
Usually it goes like this: Guy is unhappy with his dating life, discovers pickup, goes uber nerd mode trying to figure it all out and then the community brings him back down because the really strong & experienced guys in the scene are all past analyzing every detail of a social action. That's also why I'm not really concerned with a blog like that, he did the first step he needed to do - now it's time to grow beyond that or get stuck.
The goal rarely is "lay 20 bitches in 2 months" after that starting phase but more "turn into the person you want to be and be happy about the way you truely are" - which in turn is attractive as hell. Just to get there you need better advice than "just be yourself and be confident".
What makes the pickup community incredibly valuable to me is that they're the only ones who can actually explain why/how some things work in detail. Imagine asking questions about how to beat a certain build in the SC2 forum and the answer you get is "Well just build more stuff and kill him". That's the average dating advice you get from other places. =P Problem with PUA is that most of our behavior in social interactions is subconscious. PUA fails to address this, and pretends to scientifically break down everything. Yes you can understand human behaviour, but you cannot teach it simply by telling others what to do. Learning happens subconsciously through experience. It's kinda like bronze league players watching pro streams and pretending they are kinda good at sc, but in reality the mechanics and the strategy are rooted in procedural memory that we have no access to. bronze league players just need to play the game nd not worry bout anything else
Step 1: Unconscious non-knowledge
Step 2: Conscious non-knowledge
Step 3: Conscious knowledge
Step 4: Unconscious knowledge
1) "I have never heard about martial arts."
2) "I know martial arts exist and I know what they're about in general."
3) "I learned a couple of martial arts moves and I know when and how to apply them when I pay attention to the task."
4) "This dude attacked me, I somehow got him on the ground and he gave up."
No matter which task, people go through those steps as part of their learning experience. Your average "social robot" gets stuck at the point where he is able to apply all the theory he has in a million scenarios but needs to spend attention to get it right. That's not someone who is representative of having that skillset mastered. Your average "natural" had certain experiences that brought him towards 4) but never consciously worked through them, which is why most naturals end up highly specialized.
Once you understand how exactly you personally learn things best in other areas you can apply the same strategies to any realm, even when it comes to dating. If it's possible to learn a certain skill it's also possible to help someone improve at that skill, you're basically sharing your experience and give the other person the tools to make similar experiences for themselves at a lesser cost.
tl;dr: When someone tells you that the highest possible skill in any somewhat complex area is purely "technical" he is most likely an idiot. If a self proclaimed PUA claims that "scientifically" breaking down any possible human interaction is the holy grail of "picking up girls" he most certainly is an idiot. Actually that's a pretty good rule to go by in any kind of field when you're trying to figure out if someone knows his stuff or not.
Someone who is good at this shit will only preach "mechanics" to a certain degree because they build a certain foundation - past that strategy and your general approach become more and more important.
SC2 = Dating = Life. Half Life 3 confirmed, move along.
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Northern Ireland25352 Posts
I don't get the bashing on PUA overall, it's simply a way of emulating the approaches of those who have success, albeit in a more codified way.
Yeah there are problems with it, but saying things like 'the guys that are into PUA tend to be the guys girls don't like' is exactly why they're probably interested in the whole thing in the first place.
Some people are instinctual musical geniuses, some aren't and have to work their arses off to achieve similar results.
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On August 24 2013 11:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't get the bashing on PUA overall, it's simply a way of emulating the approaches of those who have success, albeit in a more codified way.
But what is success? To me, sleeping with a ton of "girls" is not success. To me, it is a sign of a person who is unable to control their reproductive instincts, and who would put aside more fulfilling actions in order to attain sexual satisfaction.
On August 24 2013 11:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
Yeah there are problems with it, but saying things like 'the guys that are into PUA tend to be the guys girls don't like' is exactly why they're probably interested in the whole thing in the first place.
The generalizations in this thread are atrocious. "Girls like PUAs", "Girls don't like PUAs", "Girls like douchebags", "Girls don't like douchebags". I think the big lesson that needs to be learned is that people are different, and you won't attract everyone all the time.
Also, note the use of the word "girls" instead of "women" throughout most posts. I believe this is indicative of the age and maturity group prevalent in this thread.
On August 24 2013 11:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
Some people are instinctual musical geniuses, some aren't and have to work their arses off to achieve similar results.
The difference is, musical geniuses create and contribute, while "PUAs", as you call them, are more interested in achieving sexual euphoria than benefiting society in any way, shape, or form.
Honestly, why even argue about "PUA" vs. "non-PUA" tactics? It seems like a trivial matter to argue about, especially considering the thread's purpose is to explain your own experiences and current standing.
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On August 24 2013 18:34 Basic Basic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 11:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't get the bashing on PUA overall, it's simply a way of emulating the approaches of those who have success, albeit in a more codified way.
But what is success? To me, sleeping with a ton of "girls" is not success. To me, it is a sign of a person who is unable to control their reproductive instincts, and who would put aside more fulfilling actions in order to attain sexual satisfaction. Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 11:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
Yeah there are problems with it, but saying things like 'the guys that are into PUA tend to be the guys girls don't like' is exactly why they're probably interested in the whole thing in the first place.
The generalizations in this thread are atrocious. "Girls like PUAs", "Girls don't like PUAs", "Girls like douchebags", "Girls don't like douchebags". I think the big lesson that needs to be learned is that people are different, and you won't attract everyone all the time. Also, note the use of the word "girls" instead of "women" throughout most posts. I believe this is indicative of the age and maturity group prevalent in this thread. Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 11:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
Some people are instinctual musical geniuses, some aren't and have to work their arses off to achieve similar results. The difference is, musical geniuses create and contribute, while "PUAs", as you call them, are more interested in achieving sexual euphoria than benefiting society in any way, shape, or form. Honestly, why even argue about "PUA" vs. "non-PUA" tactics? It seems like a trivial matter to argue about, especially considering the thread's purpose is to explain your own experiences and current standing.
Musical geniuses don't give a damn about "benefiting society". They care about making music, and they make it for one of two reasons: they like music, or they like money/fame. Both reasons are entirely egotistical.
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I aim to make women around me happier than before they met me how is that not contributing to the greater benefit of society wtf
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On August 24 2013 11:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't get the bashing on PUA overall, it's simply a way of emulating the approaches of those who have success, albeit in a more codified way.
Because 90% of everything to do with PUA looks and sounds absolutely creepy, sexist, and unbelievably dumb. Sucks for the other 10%, I guess.
Hell, the term itself.. "Pickup Artist". Just think about what that means and implies for a second. *shudder*
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On August 24 2013 20:18 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 11:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't get the bashing on PUA overall, it's simply a way of emulating the approaches of those who have success, albeit in a more codified way. Because 90% of everything to do with PUA looks and sounds absolutely creepy, sexist, and unbelievably dumb. Sucks for the other 10%, I guess.
Mind explaining why and how? Could you please elaborate? Many people say that but I don't find any of the material I read creepy, sexist or dumb. I must have seen all the wrong stuff.
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On August 24 2013 23:05 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 20:18 Conti wrote:On August 24 2013 11:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't get the bashing on PUA overall, it's simply a way of emulating the approaches of those who have success, albeit in a more codified way. Because 90% of everything to do with PUA looks and sounds absolutely creepy, sexist, and unbelievably dumb. Sucks for the other 10%, I guess. Mind explaining why and how? Could you please elaborate? Many people say that but I don't find any of the material I read creepy, sexist or dumb. I must have seen all the wrong stuff.
Perhaps it's just the negative examples sticking out. I'm sure you've seen plenty of those, and I'm also not doubting that they got it all wrong. But it's the guys who act like women are some kind of machine that just needs to be figured out, who break psychology down into laughably easy concepts and act like those simple concepts only apply to women, the guys who assign every woman they see a number on a scale of 1 to 10, the guys who talk about "negging" or who openly talk about how to properly manipulate your subjects. It's those guys that stick out, and it's those guys that seem to carry the PUA label on their chest with the most pride in their voice.
As for the term itself, "Pickup Artist", that alone implies that getting laid is an art form. Which in turn implies that getting laid is the only purpose of it all in the first place. Which in turn implies that it is not at all about relationships, or about genuinely caring, but instead about not caring at all about women, unless they are willing to spread their legs. Which, again, seems to be the main goal. It's the whole dehumanizing of women concept that pisses me off to no end.
Now working on yourself and becoming a better person is all fine and dandy, of course, and it's always something worth working for. But you shouldn't work on becoming a better person to get laid. You should work on becoming a better person. Period. Getting laid will be a side result, it should not be the goal.
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On August 24 2013 23:20 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 23:05 aTnClouD wrote:On August 24 2013 20:18 Conti wrote:On August 24 2013 11:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't get the bashing on PUA overall, it's simply a way of emulating the approaches of those who have success, albeit in a more codified way. Because 90% of everything to do with PUA looks and sounds absolutely creepy, sexist, and unbelievably dumb. Sucks for the other 10%, I guess. Mind explaining why and how? Could you please elaborate? Many people say that but I don't find any of the material I read creepy, sexist or dumb. I must have seen all the wrong stuff. Perhaps it's just the negative examples sticking out. I'm sure you've seen plenty of those, and I'm also not doubting that they got it all wrong. But it's the guys who act like women are some kind of machine that just needs to be figured out, who break psychology down into laughably easy concepts and act like those simple concepts only apply to women, the guys who assign every woman they see a number on a scale of 1 to 10, the guys who talk about "negging" or who openly talk about how to properly manipulate your subjects. It's those guys that stick out, and it's those guys that seem to carry the PUA label on their chest with the most pride in their voice. As for the term itself, "Pickup Artist", that alone implies that getting laid is an art form. Which in turn implies that getting laid is the only purpose of it all in the first place. Which in turn implies that it is not at all about relationships, or about genuinely caring, but instead about not caring at all about women, unless they are willing to spread their legs. Which, again, seems to be the main goal. It's the whole dehumanizing of women concept that pisses me off to no end. Now working on yourself and becoming a better person is all fine and dandy, of course, and it's always something worth working for. But you shouldn't work on becoming a better person to get laid. You should work on becoming a better person. Period. Getting laid will be a side result, it should not be the goal.
It's a matter of opinions. Wanting to get laid more with people you don't know and finding a way for yourself to become more attractive to them doesn't dehumanize anyone nor produces more harm than good. If the PUAs looking for casual sex look creepy to you then by consequence you should hate the whole clubbing culture. Do not be surprised when people will think different than you, especially women, since our whole female culture is based on being as physically attractive as possible and everything else comes after that.
I agree that the brain is far too advanced for us to understand completely what's going on or even scraping the surface, but at the same time it still works exactly as a computer. What PUAs did was trying random stuff over and over until they found out what works, and made theories around that. For example I'm a very rational person and I never knew where I was going or what to say when I was interested to a girl. I only had interactions with very aggressive girls because they knew what they were doing and were leading the situation. I didn't have enough experience to get what the interaction was about and reading all that material made me have a structure that makes me understand better where I'm going. Now I know stuff like that before trying to relate to a woman I want first I should show that I'm a valuable/confident person (mostly through body language), that the first eye contact is where seduction starts and that if she touches my arm and keeps fixing heir hair around me it means she's interested and wants more.
Humans have a mating dance exactly like any other animal and the most rational people tend to not get it, that's why they have little success. PUA has given them the tools to improve their interaction, and while some people use it by being the retards they are with a little more power and knowledge, some have found answers that otherwise they would have never gotten in their whole life.
I suggest you read some of the books written by the best PUAs with no prejudice and see how they work for yourself before having such a strong opinion on the matter. You will be surprised.
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On August 24 2013 20:18 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 11:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't get the bashing on PUA overall, it's simply a way of emulating the approaches of those who have success, albeit in a more codified way. Because 90% of everything to do with PUA looks and sounds absolutely creepy, sexist, and unbelievably dumb. Sucks for the other 10%, I guess. Hell, the term itself.. "Pickup Artist". Just think about what that means and implies for a second. *shudder*
It's not so much about sexism, however it is true that most PUA outlets are heavily biased groups of middle-aged white males.
The actual problem with PUA is that a lot of information is just flat-out wrong. Case in point is the eager noobie going to a bar, insulting a bunch of women because some guy trying to sell an e-book told him to "neg" (or even worse telling a generic story like "the cube"), and going home after 6 hours of bar hopping with one number from some girl who was drunk enough to put up with him.
Most of the PUA community is shady and based around "figures" trying to sell e-books and seminars (Roosh and Love Systems) at outrageous prices combined with misogynism and a little racism from the popular PUA outlets.
There are some talented figures, but the large amount of badly calibrated information combined with the bias and things above generally ruin it.
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Congratulations, what you point out as "PUA being wrong" is people taking certain concepts and applying them wrong.
Just because "You need to build lots of workers" is generally good advice that doesn't mean you need to build them 24/7. Negging specifically aims for very, very few spots (the woman having a high value + high self-esteem) and for a specific mindset (you're assuming your value is lower than hers in the first place). Even within those super specific conditions it still needs to be well calibrated.
That's why people who know their shizzle will tell you: "Don't neg because 99% of the time you'll do it wrong."
e: Shit like the cube is fucking awesome but it's more of a fun thing to do because you want to amuse yourself. Which also turns out to be a great idea in most cases. =P
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On August 25 2013 00:57 r.Evo wrote:
Congratulations, what you point out as "PUA being wrong" is people taking certain concepts and applying them wrong.
Just because "You need to build lots of workers" is generally good advice that doesn't mean you need to build them 24/7. Negging specifically aims for very, very few spots (the woman having a high value + high self-esteem) and for a specific mindset (you're assuming your value is lower than hers in the first place). Even within those super specific conditions it still needs to be well calibrated.
That's why people who know their shizzle will tell you: "Don't neg because 99% of the time you'll do it wrong."
e: Shit like the cube is fucking awesome but it's more of a fun thing to do because you want to amuse yourself. Which also turns out to be a great idea in most cases. =P
No. Just.. no.
That you consider negging to be useful at all, in whatever rare situation, is scary to me. That you categorize people by "value" is scary to me. The whole, basic approach is scaring me, the vocabulary especially.
If someone categorizes human beings by value and breaks them down into simple behavioral mechanics, I want nothing to do with them. People are not animals, and I do require a basic amount of respect when interacting with others.
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On August 25 2013 01:14 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2013 00:57 r.Evo wrote:
Congratulations, what you point out as "PUA being wrong" is people taking certain concepts and applying them wrong.
Just because "You need to build lots of workers" is generally good advice that doesn't mean you need to build them 24/7. Negging specifically aims for very, very few spots (the woman having a high value + high self-esteem) and for a specific mindset (you're assuming your value is lower than hers in the first place). Even within those super specific conditions it still needs to be well calibrated.
That's why people who know their shizzle will tell you: "Don't neg because 99% of the time you'll do it wrong."
e: Shit like the cube is fucking awesome but it's more of a fun thing to do because you want to amuse yourself. Which also turns out to be a great idea in most cases. =P No. Just.. no. That you consider negging to be useful at all, in whatever rare situation, is scary to me. That you categorize people by "value" is scary to me. The whole, basic approach is scaring me, the vocabulary especially. If someone categorizes human beings by value and breaks them down into simple behavioral mechanics, I want nothing to do with them. People are not animals, and I do require a basic amount of respect when interacting with others.
Rofl I even wasted my time to write an answer to somebody with this level of intelligence.
The forum is a trap.
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On August 25 2013 01:22 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2013 01:14 Conti wrote:On August 25 2013 00:57 r.Evo wrote:
Congratulations, what you point out as "PUA being wrong" is people taking certain concepts and applying them wrong.
Just because "You need to build lots of workers" is generally good advice that doesn't mean you need to build them 24/7. Negging specifically aims for very, very few spots (the woman having a high value + high self-esteem) and for a specific mindset (you're assuming your value is lower than hers in the first place). Even within those super specific conditions it still needs to be well calibrated.
That's why people who know their shizzle will tell you: "Don't neg because 99% of the time you'll do it wrong."
e: Shit like the cube is fucking awesome but it's more of a fun thing to do because you want to amuse yourself. Which also turns out to be a great idea in most cases. =P No. Just.. no. That you consider negging to be useful at all, in whatever rare situation, is scary to me. That you categorize people by "value" is scary to me. The whole, basic approach is scaring me, the vocabulary especially. If someone categorizes human beings by value and breaks them down into simple behavioral mechanics, I want nothing to do with them. People are not animals, and I do require a basic amount of respect when interacting with others. Rofl I even wasted my time to write an answer to somebody with this level of intelligence. The forum is a trap.
17 year old girls are also a trap
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On August 25 2013 01:14 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2013 00:57 r.Evo wrote:
Congratulations, what you point out as "PUA being wrong" is people taking certain concepts and applying them wrong.
Just because "You need to build lots of workers" is generally good advice that doesn't mean you need to build them 24/7. Negging specifically aims for very, very few spots (the woman having a high value + high self-esteem) and for a specific mindset (you're assuming your value is lower than hers in the first place). Even within those super specific conditions it still needs to be well calibrated.
That's why people who know their shizzle will tell you: "Don't neg because 99% of the time you'll do it wrong."
e: Shit like the cube is fucking awesome but it's more of a fun thing to do because you want to amuse yourself. Which also turns out to be a great idea in most cases. =P No. Just.. no. That you consider negging to be useful at all, in whatever rare situation, is scary to me. That you categorize people by "value" is scary to me. The whole, basic approach is scaring me, the vocabulary especially. If someone categorizes human beings by value and breaks them down into simple behavioral mechanics, I want nothing to do with them. People are not animals, and I do require a basic amount of respect when interacting with others.
Well, newsflash: People have different social value. If you don't want to see that you shouldn't be interacting with human beings.
Saying "negging can never be useful" is plain dumb - if applied correctly it's a great tool like pretty much anything in the realm of social interaction.
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On August 25 2013 01:48 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2013 01:14 Conti wrote:On August 25 2013 00:57 r.Evo wrote:
Congratulations, what you point out as "PUA being wrong" is people taking certain concepts and applying them wrong.
Just because "You need to build lots of workers" is generally good advice that doesn't mean you need to build them 24/7. Negging specifically aims for very, very few spots (the woman having a high value + high self-esteem) and for a specific mindset (you're assuming your value is lower than hers in the first place). Even within those super specific conditions it still needs to be well calibrated.
That's why people who know their shizzle will tell you: "Don't neg because 99% of the time you'll do it wrong."
e: Shit like the cube is fucking awesome but it's more of a fun thing to do because you want to amuse yourself. Which also turns out to be a great idea in most cases. =P No. Just.. no. That you consider negging to be useful at all, in whatever rare situation, is scary to me. That you categorize people by "value" is scary to me. The whole, basic approach is scaring me, the vocabulary especially. If someone categorizes human beings by value and breaks them down into simple behavioral mechanics, I want nothing to do with them. People are not animals, and I do require a basic amount of respect when interacting with others. Well, newsflash: People have different social value. If you don't want to see that you shouldn't be interacting with human beings. Saying "negging can never be useful" is plain dumb - if applied correctly it's a great tool like pretty much anything in the realm of social interaction.
I'm not saying negging isn't useful, I'm saying it's inherently wrong.
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You know, constantly referring to interpersonal skills as "tools" is probably part of why so many people look on PUA negatively. It isn't exactly a stretch to go from considering charisma a "tool" to using it on people as if they were meant to be treated like things to be worked on like a wooden chair.
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On August 25 2013 02:00 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2013 01:48 r.Evo wrote:On August 25 2013 01:14 Conti wrote:On August 25 2013 00:57 r.Evo wrote:
Congratulations, what you point out as "PUA being wrong" is people taking certain concepts and applying them wrong.
Just because "You need to build lots of workers" is generally good advice that doesn't mean you need to build them 24/7. Negging specifically aims for very, very few spots (the woman having a high value + high self-esteem) and for a specific mindset (you're assuming your value is lower than hers in the first place). Even within those super specific conditions it still needs to be well calibrated.
That's why people who know their shizzle will tell you: "Don't neg because 99% of the time you'll do it wrong."
e: Shit like the cube is fucking awesome but it's more of a fun thing to do because you want to amuse yourself. Which also turns out to be a great idea in most cases. =P No. Just.. no. That you consider negging to be useful at all, in whatever rare situation, is scary to me. That you categorize people by "value" is scary to me. The whole, basic approach is scaring me, the vocabulary especially. If someone categorizes human beings by value and breaks them down into simple behavioral mechanics, I want nothing to do with them. People are not animals, and I do require a basic amount of respect when interacting with others. Well, newsflash: People have different social value. If you don't want to see that you shouldn't be interacting with human beings. Saying "negging can never be useful" is plain dumb - if applied correctly it's a great tool like pretty much anything in the realm of social interaction. I'm not saying negging isn't useful, I'm saying it's inherently wrong.
How is negging inherently wrong? So teasing a woman playfully is wrong? Huh? I must be humanity's biggest asshole because I crack a joke now x_X
The purpose of 'negging' is to let the woman know that you're not some wet newbie that will grovel before her and you will challenge her back. It's not to purposely insult her in anyway shape or form. What alot of newbies don't get is that they completely take it the wrong way and actually do insult the girl/woman. It's a more advanced 'tool/strategy/tactic/method' that alot of people try out because it does actually work pretty much 100% of the time when you do it correctly.
Now I'm not saying everything in the PUA community is great. But some of the strategies/tactics/etc. do work, it's just that people take it too literally. If anyone reads an actually decent book, they do put up a disclaimer that all they are doing is trying to build up your confidence by giving you a road map to follow. Everything else is up to you, and they can give you some level of advice, but it certainly isn't going to be a A = > Z science manual or some shit like that. It's like you've literally never read the entire book, or even the preface for that matter.
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On August 25 2013 02:00 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2013 01:48 r.Evo wrote:On August 25 2013 01:14 Conti wrote:On August 25 2013 00:57 r.Evo wrote:
Congratulations, what you point out as "PUA being wrong" is people taking certain concepts and applying them wrong.
Just because "You need to build lots of workers" is generally good advice that doesn't mean you need to build them 24/7. Negging specifically aims for very, very few spots (the woman having a high value + high self-esteem) and for a specific mindset (you're assuming your value is lower than hers in the first place). Even within those super specific conditions it still needs to be well calibrated.
That's why people who know their shizzle will tell you: "Don't neg because 99% of the time you'll do it wrong."
e: Shit like the cube is fucking awesome but it's more of a fun thing to do because you want to amuse yourself. Which also turns out to be a great idea in most cases. =P No. Just.. no. That you consider negging to be useful at all, in whatever rare situation, is scary to me. That you categorize people by "value" is scary to me. The whole, basic approach is scaring me, the vocabulary especially. If someone categorizes human beings by value and breaks them down into simple behavioral mechanics, I want nothing to do with them. People are not animals, and I do require a basic amount of respect when interacting with others. Well, newsflash: People have different social value. If you don't want to see that you shouldn't be interacting with human beings. Saying "negging can never be useful" is plain dumb - if applied correctly it's a great tool like pretty much anything in the realm of social interaction. I'm not saying negging isn't useful, I'm saying it's inherently wrong.
It's all about the fun. Makes the interaction more fun, for you and the girl. I neg my female friends all the time because it's fun, even if I just want to be friends with them. It's about how you say it not what. Like when I call a friend of mine chubby even though she has an amazing body. I wouldn't call a fat girl chubby because that would be just be very mean. You have to use your brain.
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EPT
