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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
Here are two beliefs I had about relationships until 1/2 a year ago. These beliefs seem very silly when they are printed in front of me. And they are. But, nevertheless, I had them and they made relationships far less fun than they otherwise could have been.
Beliefs:
1. This woman must behave like I want her to.
2. This relationship MUST work.
Once I identified these as beliefs underlying my feelings and behaviors in a relationship, they were surprisingly easy to change.
1. I'd like the woman I'm involved with to behave in particular ways. And I can tell her what I like. But it's just not true that she MUST behave this way or that. She's going to behave like she wants to behave and hopefully I like that (otherwise what the FUCK am I doing with her).
2. Of course I want to find a great relationship. That would be awesome. But DEMANDING that THIS relationship be THE relationship puts so much pressure (as well as unrealistic demands) into the relationship that things start getting unpleasant. So instead, I hope the relationship I'm in is the one. And I'll work to nurture and protect it. But it simply may not work. And that's ok.
Since identifying these beliefs, I've become involved in another relationship that's been good so far. Good stuff.
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On May 10 2013 02:22 kaluro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 02:05 r.Evo wrote:On May 10 2013 01:34 Shiori wrote:On May 10 2013 01:24 r.Evo wrote:
There is no "your girl" and "my girl". I'd go as far and claim that women have their own personalities and are allowed to make choices for themselves.
Saying "if you have sex with a girl who is in a relationship makes you a horrible human being" implies that you are responsible for her relationship and that she is incapable of making the "correct" choice herself.
Closet misogynism at it's best. I kinda agree with this but at the same time kinda don't. If you know someone else is in a relationship, then to sleep with them is implicitly condoning their choice to break trust with that other person. Now, obviously it's the decision of that person whether to cheat on their partner or not, and obviously the greatest blame when it comes to betraying their partner lies with them, but I can't help but feel it says something about the person they cheat with if they're willing to engage with someone they know is in a relationship. I suppose it shows that they don't have any particular respect for the bonds of a relationship. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that sleeping with a girl/guy who is in a relationship is immoral or wrong per se, but I really do think it casts some negative aspersions on one's character provided one knows in advance that the other person is in a serious relationship and yet still tries to pursue them romantically. To make it clear, though, the reason I believe cheating is wrong has nothing to do with some weird conception of sexuality and more to do with violating the trust of the other person. It's wrong in the same sense that breaking a promise is wrong. I also want to emphasize that the gender of the people has no bearing on my opinion of this, so there's no misogyny here, haha. Most relationships are over way before "cheating" occurs, it just tends to be a dramatic enough cut for all parties involved to realize it. In that context I consider it a good thing if someone shows up and clarifies that those "bonds of a relationship" are already not respected by the involved parties. Now, people cheating on a regular basis in a relationship is a different story entirely imo. Exactly. And mcbengt was talking about cheating because of human nature and impulses, not because a relationship is over. That is what I was trying to counter-discuss. mcbengt was assuming a wild impulsive cheat, without a direct leading cause, such as a bad relationship.
Guy thinks girl is hot.
Girl thinks guy is hot.
a) Girl tells guy she is in a relationship, they have sex anyway.
b) Girl tells guy she is in a relationship, guy says he doesn't do that type of thing.
c) Girl doesn't tell guy she's in a relationship, they have sex anyway.
If she tells the guy she is in a relationship it might be to prevent him from falling in love with her, it might be to encourage him to fall in love with her, it might be to get a little bit of insurance that she isn't a horrible person for being attracted to other people. It certainly is not to prevent having sex with the other guy unless you assume she doesn't consider herself capable of saying "no". All that choosing b) does is reinforce that behaviour.
If a person is fine with "cheating" and it's obviously not a big deal to them, there is no big point in punishing them for being honest about it. You're putting the girl into a position where her best choice to deal with your attitude is dishonesty.
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man i didnt think id cause this big of a discussion ._.
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On May 10 2013 04:05 arb wrote:
man i didnt think id cause this big of a discussion ._.
Dating ideologies is serious business, man. I enjoy reading the discussion nonetheless ^^
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On May 10 2013 03:05 rezoacken wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 02:44 QuanticHawk wrote:On May 09 2013 14:09 arb wrote:On May 09 2013 14:02 docvoc wrote:On May 09 2013 13:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
'She didn't consider it cheating' - How exactly did she come to that conclusion?
Not calling you an asshole in this instance, you didn't really do anything sexual iirc (although some find emotional cheating worse). When a girl shows those signs, it's time to get out lol. Cheaters always cheat, just a word to the wise in my experience. IMO it would depend how deep in the relationship we are, early maybe I'd let it slide with her never doing it again, later on I'd be like, NO, you're dumped. Idk she said he was a douchebag, and it'd be nice to be wanted. but like i dunno, she said she didnt see it that way which was kinda weird(tho she said her boyfriend sees like, anything as cheating???) so i didnt really think much of it. it hink i coulda stole home base but idk. im a douchebag but im not that big of a douchebag, which i cant say its all my fault since like i said it takes two to cheat, its not just a like.. one person thing.. stop fucking insecure girls who are a notch above hookers or at least have enough common sense to just treat idiots like her as idiots, instead of thinking about dating them or whatever. it's probably a lot less effort to just stop trying to bone whores Can we please stay civil ? For all we know he could be talking about a girl you know.
if this hurts your ears now you dont wanna know what id say to a female (or male) friend who tried to tell me that is acceptable behavior
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On May 09 2013 17:01 kaluro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 16:18 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:On May 09 2013 14:34 Zooper31 wrote:On May 09 2013 13:41 arb wrote:On May 09 2013 12:34 Zooper31 wrote:On May 09 2013 12:04 B.I.G. wrote:
You stayed at her place a few days? Man i wouldn't be a happy boyfriend if I would find out about that... That'd be enough for me to break up if I had a gf. Her cuddling with another guy period, let alone, alone at her place without my knowledge. I do feel kinda douchey about it, but idk. she said she didnt consider it cheating, and i told myself i wouldnt do anything else since she was dating someone. Like I know it was a REALLLLLLLL asshole thing to do, but it takes two to tango, and its not like i forced the point or tried anything else. dunno, shes all about trying to keep it secretive and shit so idk wtf. It's cheating regardless of how she feels about it. And yes it is a douchey thing to do, two wrong's don't make a right. You can try to make w/e logical explanation about it you want but you know what you're doing. You're making a girl cheat on her bf and you're as low as they come atm. I'd be ashamed and I've never ever do such a thing if I actually wanted to think highly of myself. A boyfriend is not a husband. If one likes a girl he should try to go for it even if she has a boyfriend. It can only have a positive ending: 1. She breaks up with her current boyfriend for you: they were not meant to be together. 2. She repells you and stays with her boyfriend: it strengthen their couple. There is nothing douchey about any of it as long as nobody is actually forced to do anything. What's douchey is trying to hide or not assuming it. If you would try to hook up with my girlfriend, there would be a very bad ending for you  . If you're willing to go for an already taken girl, you have no self respect and are the worst kind of trash there is. If you'd try anything on my girlfriend I would first kindly ask you to step away but if you would keep interfering I wouldn't mind taking it to a whole other level, people like you are horrible disrespectful persons with no dignity and don't deserve any respect whatsoever. Trying to break an established relationship for self gain is cool and all, but at the same point you shouldn't start whining when the consequences show themselves around the corner and you're sitting at home with either a black eye or being on a bad stance with someone. Taking responsibility and not whining is part of what you'd be doing. Also I'd trust my girlfriend to blow you off immediately and inform me if you would keep harassing her, at which the ending wouldn't look any prettier. It's really easy to be an E-hero online and say the stuff you just did, but on the same note i bet you'd be this tiny skinny guy in real life who wouldn't even know what to say the moment he got approached aggressively because of the actions he'd never even be daring to take.
Man seriously? You come up on the internet and insult and half threaten me on a post you've read and assuming things, how can that pass here Oo
I was not talking about random banging or some trash sensless harassment. It's just that if you think a girl is the one, you should try to go for it, even if she has a bf because he might not be the one for her.
No harassment involved, no cheesy bastard stuff, no fight.
My uncle and his wife are a perfect exemple, they got a wonderfull family and are deeply in love since more than 15 years and i have amazing cousins. But when he met her wife she was in a relationship with a guy ( not married though )
You know those things happen, as for you my uncle is supposed to be the worst trash there is in this world and you would beat him down right?
Can't beleive you just typed a full post just to insult me and spit hate Oo
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On May 10 2013 04:35 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 17:01 kaluro wrote:On May 09 2013 16:18 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:On May 09 2013 14:34 Zooper31 wrote:On May 09 2013 13:41 arb wrote:On May 09 2013 12:34 Zooper31 wrote:On May 09 2013 12:04 B.I.G. wrote:
You stayed at her place a few days? Man i wouldn't be a happy boyfriend if I would find out about that... That'd be enough for me to break up if I had a gf. Her cuddling with another guy period, let alone, alone at her place without my knowledge. I do feel kinda douchey about it, but idk. she said she didnt consider it cheating, and i told myself i wouldnt do anything else since she was dating someone. Like I know it was a REALLLLLLLL asshole thing to do, but it takes two to tango, and its not like i forced the point or tried anything else. dunno, shes all about trying to keep it secretive and shit so idk wtf. It's cheating regardless of how she feels about it. And yes it is a douchey thing to do, two wrong's don't make a right. You can try to make w/e logical explanation about it you want but you know what you're doing. You're making a girl cheat on her bf and you're as low as they come atm. I'd be ashamed and I've never ever do such a thing if I actually wanted to think highly of myself. A boyfriend is not a husband. If one likes a girl he should try to go for it even if she has a boyfriend. It can only have a positive ending: 1. She breaks up with her current boyfriend for you: they were not meant to be together. 2. She repells you and stays with her boyfriend: it strengthen their couple. There is nothing douchey about any of it as long as nobody is actually forced to do anything. What's douchey is trying to hide or not assuming it. If you would try to hook up with my girlfriend, there would be a very bad ending for you . If you're willing to go for an already taken girl, you have no self respect and are the worst kind of trash there is. If you'd try anything on my girlfriend I would first kindly ask you to step away but if you would keep interfering I wouldn't mind taking it to a whole other level, people like you are horrible disrespectful persons with no dignity and don't deserve any respect whatsoever. Trying to break an established relationship for self gain is cool and all, but at the same point you shouldn't start whining when the consequences show themselves around the corner and you're sitting at home with either a black eye or being on a bad stance with someone. Taking responsibility and not whining is part of what you'd be doing. Also I'd trust my girlfriend to blow you off immediately and inform me if you would keep harassing her, at which the ending wouldn't look any prettier. It's really easy to be an E-hero online and say the stuff you just did, but on the same note i bet you'd be this tiny skinny guy in real life who wouldn't even know what to say the moment he got approached aggressively because of the actions he'd never even be daring to take. Man seriously? You come up on the internet and insult and half threaten me on a post you've read and assuming things, how can that pass here Oo I was not talking about random banging or some trash sensless harassment. It's just that if you think a girl is the one, you should try to go for it, even if she has a bf because he might not be the one for her. No harassment involved, no cheesy bastard stuff, no fight. My uncle and his wife are a perfect exemple, they got a wonderfull family and are deeply in love since more than 15 years and i have amazing cousins. But when he met her wife she was in a relationship with a guy ( not married though ) You know those things happen, as for you my uncle is supposed to be the worst trash there is in this world and you would beat him down right? Can't beleive you just typed a full post just to insult me and spit hate Oo
tell your uncle that noted internet poster quantichawk said congrats on the mailman kids
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On May 10 2013 04:14 boon2537 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 04:05 arb wrote:
man i didnt think id cause this big of a discussion ._. Dating ideologies is serious business, man. I enjoy reading the discussion nonetheless ^^
Since you´re talking about that, what do you guys think of this Pick-Up-Artist thing? I just started reading about that in some forums but I still dont know what to think about that.
It seems promising but on the other hand I dont feel like it fits my character.
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On May 10 2013 04:47 JoeCool wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 04:14 boon2537 wrote:On May 10 2013 04:05 arb wrote:
man i didnt think id cause this big of a discussion ._. Dating ideologies is serious business, man. I enjoy reading the discussion nonetheless ^^ Since you´re talking about that, what do you guys think of this Pick-Up-Artist thing? I just started reading about that in some forums but I still dont know what to think about that. It seems promising but on the other hand I dont feel like it fits my character.
I'm not going to say it categorically, but every PUA I've met seems to have some serious issues with self-esteem, perceived success, women as autonomous entities, or relationships in general.
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On May 10 2013 04:47 JoeCool wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 04:14 boon2537 wrote:On May 10 2013 04:05 arb wrote:
man i didnt think id cause this big of a discussion ._. Dating ideologies is serious business, man. I enjoy reading the discussion nonetheless ^^ Since you´re talking about that, what do you guys think of this Pick-Up-Artist thing? I just started reading about that in some forums but I still dont know what to think about that. It seems promising but on the other hand I dont feel like it fits my character.
The day the PUA thread closed on tl, the posting quality rose up by about 2000%. That's all you need to know imo.
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On May 10 2013 04:47 JoeCool wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 04:14 boon2537 wrote:On May 10 2013 04:05 arb wrote:
man i didnt think id cause this big of a discussion ._. Dating ideologies is serious business, man. I enjoy reading the discussion nonetheless ^^ Since you´re talking about that, what do you guys think of this Pick-Up-Artist thing? I just started reading about that in some forums but I still dont know what to think about that. It seems promising but on the other hand I dont feel like it fits my character.
PUA itself is a normal thing. Picking up girls, like anything else in the world, is something that you can get better at. From what I've read (never really met one actually practicing that hobby in real life) of practicing PUAs though, they're very often genuinely unlikable guys with an enormously inflated ego.
r.Evo is one of the better examples, though. Seems like a cool guy and if you're into that kind of thing you should probably PM him.
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On May 10 2013 04:38 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 04:35 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:On May 09 2013 17:01 kaluro wrote:On May 09 2013 16:18 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:On May 09 2013 14:34 Zooper31 wrote:On May 09 2013 13:41 arb wrote:On May 09 2013 12:34 Zooper31 wrote:On May 09 2013 12:04 B.I.G. wrote:
You stayed at her place a few days? Man i wouldn't be a happy boyfriend if I would find out about that... That'd be enough for me to break up if I had a gf. Her cuddling with another guy period, let alone, alone at her place without my knowledge. I do feel kinda douchey about it, but idk. she said she didnt consider it cheating, and i told myself i wouldnt do anything else since she was dating someone. Like I know it was a REALLLLLLLL asshole thing to do, but it takes two to tango, and its not like i forced the point or tried anything else. dunno, shes all about trying to keep it secretive and shit so idk wtf. It's cheating regardless of how she feels about it. And yes it is a douchey thing to do, two wrong's don't make a right. You can try to make w/e logical explanation about it you want but you know what you're doing. You're making a girl cheat on her bf and you're as low as they come atm. I'd be ashamed and I've never ever do such a thing if I actually wanted to think highly of myself. A boyfriend is not a husband. If one likes a girl he should try to go for it even if she has a boyfriend. It can only have a positive ending: 1. She breaks up with her current boyfriend for you: they were not meant to be together. 2. She repells you and stays with her boyfriend: it strengthen their couple. There is nothing douchey about any of it as long as nobody is actually forced to do anything. What's douchey is trying to hide or not assuming it. If you would try to hook up with my girlfriend, there would be a very bad ending for you . If you're willing to go for an already taken girl, you have no self respect and are the worst kind of trash there is. If you'd try anything on my girlfriend I would first kindly ask you to step away but if you would keep interfering I wouldn't mind taking it to a whole other level, people like you are horrible disrespectful persons with no dignity and don't deserve any respect whatsoever. Trying to break an established relationship for self gain is cool and all, but at the same point you shouldn't start whining when the consequences show themselves around the corner and you're sitting at home with either a black eye or being on a bad stance with someone. Taking responsibility and not whining is part of what you'd be doing. Also I'd trust my girlfriend to blow you off immediately and inform me if you would keep harassing her, at which the ending wouldn't look any prettier. It's really easy to be an E-hero online and say the stuff you just did, but on the same note i bet you'd be this tiny skinny guy in real life who wouldn't even know what to say the moment he got approached aggressively because of the actions he'd never even be daring to take. Man seriously? You come up on the internet and insult and half threaten me on a post you've read and assuming things, how can that pass here Oo I was not talking about random banging or some trash sensless harassment. It's just that if you think a girl is the one, you should try to go for it, even if she has a bf because he might not be the one for her. No harassment involved, no cheesy bastard stuff, no fight. My uncle and his wife are a perfect exemple, they got a wonderfull family and are deeply in love since more than 15 years and i have amazing cousins. But when he met her wife she was in a relationship with a guy ( not married though ) You know those things happen, as for you my uncle is supposed to be the worst trash there is in this world and you would beat him down right? Can't beleive you just typed a full post just to insult me and spit hate Oo tell your uncle that noted internet poster quantichawk said congrats on the mailman kids
Somehow took me half a minute to figure out what you were implying...
In any case, it's not like e.g. marriage will automatically is going to change someone's mindset/attitude toward commitment (sticking with it regardless of whether someone who may seem more exciting at the moment).
My understanding is that long term relationships tend to be less in the way of excitement, more in the way of trust/stability/friendship. If someone's priorities (shown by their actions) are excitement/self esteem boost etc. over trust & commitment, it shouldn't be too surprising how those priorities will play out over the course of their relationships. People can change, but change is difficult...
IF you assume a 'relationship' should include being a trusting and exclusive friendship then imo it's immature to break the trust of a friend (via cheating). Of course many relationships don't fit that anymore by the time they end...
The hell do I know, however.
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Breaking up with a guy you've known for several weeks to trade for the guy you will marry. I don't think it turns you into a serial cheater.
Quantichawk, are you implying that everyone should marry their first gf/bf to be considered faithull? I don't get the idea.
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On May 10 2013 05:15 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 04:47 JoeCool wrote:On May 10 2013 04:14 boon2537 wrote:On May 10 2013 04:05 arb wrote:
man i didnt think id cause this big of a discussion ._. Dating ideologies is serious business, man. I enjoy reading the discussion nonetheless ^^ Since you´re talking about that, what do you guys think of this Pick-Up-Artist thing? I just started reading about that in some forums but I still dont know what to think about that. It seems promising but on the other hand I dont feel like it fits my character. PUA itself is a normal thing. Picking up girls, like anything else in the world, is something that you can get better at. From what I've read (never really met one actually practicing that hobby in real life) of practicing PUAs though, they're very often genuinely unlikable guys with an enormously inflated ego. r.Evo is one of the better examples, though. Seems like a cool guy and if you're into that kind of thing you should probably PM him.
Welp. To me dating is one of those things where you have to wade through piles of shit to find information that actually helps you improve yourself and your behavior. It just so happens that the pickup community has overall more gold lying around, which doesn't necessarily mean that the gold-to-shit-ratio is better than somewhere else.
From my experience it's hard to find people outside of the PUA community to actually talk about the stuff that brings you forward, but it's also hard to find people inside the PUA community who got their heads straight. /r/seduction on reddit is probably one of the cooler places from what I've seen there. Can only recommend to use your brain and question things, especially when people tell you to run across a crowded marketplace and yell "I'M A FLYING COW I'M A FLYING COW" to improve your fear of being judged by other people. =P
In general it's probably a good idea to ignore pretty much any advice that comes from people who seem to overly generalize, e.g. calling every women inside a relationship who has sex with someone else an "insecure whore". Sounds like someone has issues he didn't resolve.
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On May 10 2013 04:21 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 03:05 rezoacken wrote:On May 10 2013 02:44 QuanticHawk wrote:On May 09 2013 14:09 arb wrote:On May 09 2013 14:02 docvoc wrote:On May 09 2013 13:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
'She didn't consider it cheating' - How exactly did she come to that conclusion?
Not calling you an asshole in this instance, you didn't really do anything sexual iirc (although some find emotional cheating worse). When a girl shows those signs, it's time to get out lol. Cheaters always cheat, just a word to the wise in my experience. IMO it would depend how deep in the relationship we are, early maybe I'd let it slide with her never doing it again, later on I'd be like, NO, you're dumped. Idk she said he was a douchebag, and it'd be nice to be wanted. but like i dunno, she said she didnt see it that way which was kinda weird(tho she said her boyfriend sees like, anything as cheating???) so i didnt really think much of it. it hink i coulda stole home base but idk. im a douchebag but im not that big of a douchebag, which i cant say its all my fault since like i said it takes two to cheat, its not just a like.. one person thing.. stop fucking insecure girls who are a notch above hookers or at least have enough common sense to just treat idiots like her as idiots, instead of thinking about dating them or whatever. it's probably a lot less effort to just stop trying to bone whores Can we please stay civil ? For all we know he could be talking about a girl you know. if this hurts your ears now you dont wanna know what id say to a female (or male) friend who tried to tell me that is acceptable behavior
It doesn't hurt my ears, it hurts the discussion. Punching your point into someone face with vulgar generalizations doesn't help anybody.
But maybe you're just an angry person.
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In retrospect now that I think of it the thing that I value the most from the PUA community is actually the entire framework. The tools, the "lingo", small concepts like false time constraints or shit-tests.
Now, it doesn't make you better as a person or improve your dating life when you can explain what a shit-test or "rooting your opener" means, but it breaks things that are easy to mess up down into small fragments that you can approach logically. Just the other day a friend told me he approached girls on the street trying to make conversation and he utterly crashed and burned. Simply by telling him to add a FTC ("I don't have much time / I'm in a hurry") and a rooting ("I just saw you from over there and was wondering") he suddenly has no issue getting over those first twenty seconds.
Small things like that are just invaluable and there, to my knowledge, is no other community that understands them like that. And after some time I learned the most valuable lesson the pickup community can teach you: Pretty much all the solutions it has to offer to certain situations come naturally once you fixed most of your own issues, limiting believes and fears.
The big and important point is that I while can compare how I act today to e.g. old field reports and notice how my responses I make up on the spot today beat the crap out of pretty much every single sentence I got "taught" in the PUA community, I can still explain why or why not certain things most likely work or don't work by understanding and applying the exact same basic framework to it. That's something that most naturals I know fail horribly at.
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I've only kissed a girl twice, and never had girlfriend.
And next month i turn 19...
Im rather pathetic...
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On May 10 2013 06:01 r.Evo wrote:
In retrospect now that I think of it the thing that I value the most from the PUA community is actually the entire framework. The tools, the "lingo", small concepts like false time constraints or shit-tests.
Now, it doesn't make you better as a person or improve your dating life when you can explain what a shit-test or "rooting your opener" means, but it breaks things that are easy to mess up down into small fragments that you can approach logically. Just the other day a friend told me he approached girls on the street trying to make conversation and he utterly crashed and burned. Simply by telling him to add a FTC ("I don't have much time / I'm in a hurry") and a rooting ("I just saw you from over there and was wondering") he suddenly has no issue getting over those first twenty seconds.
Small things like that are just invaluable and there, to my knowledge, is no other community that understands them like that. And after some time I learned the most valuable lesson the pickup community can teach you: Pretty much all the solutions it has to offer to certain situations come naturally once you fixed most of your own issues, limiting believes and fears.
The big and important point is that I while can compare how I act today to e.g. old field reports and notice how my responses I make up on the spot today beat the crap out of pretty much every single sentence I got "taught" in the PUA community, I can still explain why or why not certain things most likely work or don't work by understanding and applying the exact same basic framework to it. That's something that most naturals I know fail horribly at.
If PUA helps people become confident in themselves and overcome their weaknesses, more power to it. I suppose what I have problems with are the people who use it in a way that, let's be honest, pretty much makes women exploitable objects of sexual gratification.
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On May 10 2013 06:07 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 06:01 r.Evo wrote:
In retrospect now that I think of it the thing that I value the most from the PUA community is actually the entire framework. The tools, the "lingo", small concepts like false time constraints or shit-tests.
Now, it doesn't make you better as a person or improve your dating life when you can explain what a shit-test or "rooting your opener" means, but it breaks things that are easy to mess up down into small fragments that you can approach logically. Just the other day a friend told me he approached girls on the street trying to make conversation and he utterly crashed and burned. Simply by telling him to add a FTC ("I don't have much time / I'm in a hurry") and a rooting ("I just saw you from over there and was wondering") he suddenly has no issue getting over those first twenty seconds.
Small things like that are just invaluable and there, to my knowledge, is no other community that understands them like that. And after some time I learned the most valuable lesson the pickup community can teach you: Pretty much all the solutions it has to offer to certain situations come naturally once you fixed most of your own issues, limiting believes and fears.
The big and important point is that I while can compare how I act today to e.g. old field reports and notice how my responses I make up on the spot today beat the crap out of pretty much every single sentence I got "taught" in the PUA community, I can still explain why or why not certain things most likely work or don't work by understanding and applying the exact same basic framework to it. That's something that most naturals I know fail horribly at. If PUA helps people become confident in themselves and overcome their weaknesses, more power to it. I suppose what I have problems with are the people who use it in a way that, let's be honest, pretty much makes women exploitable objects of sexual gratification.
I guess that is the same as what I posted the other day:+ Show Spoiler +If what someone got out of all these posts on this forum is one of those 2 extremes:
-Change yourself completly, act like a caveman and treat women the opposite of how you want to treat them.
-Dont change anything, just keep doing whatever you're doing. You may find a girl someday. But dont feel sad !
In this case, I think its terrible. Both of those extremes are very horrible ways to go at it. The purpose shouldn't be to artificially be someone else but to change any behaviors that are going opposite to what you really want or the purpose you have. All this in order to be a "yourself" that you love. And some more precise advice will highlight how some behaviors are counter-productive to reach that goal and give advice about how to change them.
It's then up to the reader to be able to synchronise these advice to the "self" he wants to be. If it goes against deep rooted beliefs, then, don't do it !
The proper reaction should be:
Joe: I did X and Y and everything failed.
Brian: You shouldn't have done X. By doing it, you basicly are doing A, and I'm pretty sure you would never want to do A.
Joe: Oh yeah I see, A goes against my principles so I'll stop doing X.
Brian: About Y, I don't like it because B. Do C instead.
Joe: Hmmm I don't like either. Let me see about a middleground D that is more myself.
Everybody is different and by extension we are at different levels in our lives and want different stuff. For example some people want one girl every week while other want to find one special one that will last years and maybe start having kids. Both are right and therefore should apply critical thinking to any advice they are given as to how it applies to themselves.
That's a very meta-way of describing it. But, at least, that's how I applied any advices in my time and how I read those in this thread.
I also think the thread has (should have) another purpose. Point out how dating is a very natural and easy thing and how guys should not be so anguished over it all. The main issue to almost every guy I know is that they just don't even try, so if I can I'll point out to some people that the first thing to do should be to... actually do something.
PUA community is the same, you have to take what you feel is right from it, if you fall in one of the extremes you're doing it wrong.
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On May 06 2013 23:17 Mikau wrote:Right, long story incoming. There's this girl I'm interested in (not really sure if I like like her yet, but I want to find out enough that I'm contemplating doing something about it, which is a big deal for me ) and the way she talks to me in text says she might be interested as well (though she could just be friendly, I can never tell). There are however, some... complications. I used to share some classes with her back in high school. We never really talked or did anything together back then, I simply knew of her existence. Through friends I later met her sister, and had a huge crush on her for a while. That's years ago now, and I can honestly say it's no longer a big deal anymore to me. Considering that family is rather open, I assume the girl I like (call her J) knows about this, though I can't know for sure. I talked to the sister about it and she said she wouldn't mind me potentially dating J (and to reiterate, we're the same age). We never really talked much, untill recently. J moved to a new city and I asked her to join me and some friends when we were going out in that city. She said yes, and even though we didn't end up going, we texted back and forth a bit afterwards. She later on invited me to come to her bday party, which I went to (but nothing really happened because I'm a huge coward among people I don't really know). She was friendly to me in text leading up to said party. Telling me how much she was looking forward to me being there, offering a place to sleep even though I live only 15 miles away, ending most of het sentences with exclamation marks (I'm told that this often means people are interested, much like ending sentences with full stops often means anger/irritation), etc. She could very well just be acting really friendly, as I said I'm bad at telling. Normally (as seen on this page and the one before that), the advice would be to assume she's into you and just go for it, and normally I'd agree, but I'm not sure if the situation here is a bit awkward, with me having had a crush on her sister. I wonder if me going for it would make things awkward whenever I'm at their house (as said, her sister is a friend of mine) or with mutual friends. I can also see why me having a crush on her sister a few years ago and now potentially being interested in the "little sister" could be seen as rather weird or creepy by some. What do you guys think?
So, I asked her today. She said yes, though I didn't specifically mention the word 'date' so I still don't know for sure she's interested. Though she's no idiot, so I'm sure she knew what I meant. But at least I got a fun evening with her to look forward to.
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EPT
