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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
Northern Ireland26505 Posts
On May 10 2013 05:01 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 04:47 JoeCool wrote:On May 10 2013 04:14 boon2537 wrote:On May 10 2013 04:05 arb wrote:
man i didnt think id cause this big of a discussion ._. Dating ideologies is serious business, man. I enjoy reading the discussion nonetheless ^^ Since you´re talking about that, what do you guys think of this Pick-Up-Artist thing? I just started reading about that in some forums but I still dont know what to think about that. It seems promising but on the other hand I dont feel like it fits my character. I'm not going to say it categorically, but every PUA I've met seems to have some serious issues with self-esteem, perceived success, women as autonomous entities, or relationships in general.
Agreed, that said those guys are using PUA as a means to an end, getting laid. There's actually a lot of general good advice on lifestyle, self-esteem etc that is more of a bedrock that future success with women is to be grounded in. The PUA folk I meet tend to not pursue self-improvement for its OWN sake, even though pUA stuff I've read stresses the inportance of doing so.
Tbh I don't get the fuss with getting laid, I find the average person in a bar and other such environments dull as fucking dishwater. Still, for all my skepticism there is definitely good stuff in the PUA community
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Northern Ireland26505 Posts
On May 10 2013 06:06 Garfailed wrote:
I've only kissed a girl twice, and never had girlfriend.
And next month i turn 19...
Im rather pathetic...
That's me at 18, bar the self-deprecation. Look I'll let you into a secret, girls are overrated man at that age. Its a period in your life you can travel, pursue interests etc, things that you can't really do as easily in later life. Plus girls subsequently love a well-travelled renaissance man!
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I honestly didn't know that there was a PUA 'community' or that it was an actual thing. I thought it was just a general description of certain people. Today I learnt something o.o
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On May 10 2013 06:53 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 05:01 Shiori wrote:On May 10 2013 04:47 JoeCool wrote:On May 10 2013 04:14 boon2537 wrote:On May 10 2013 04:05 arb wrote:
man i didnt think id cause this big of a discussion ._. Dating ideologies is serious business, man. I enjoy reading the discussion nonetheless ^^ Since you´re talking about that, what do you guys think of this Pick-Up-Artist thing? I just started reading about that in some forums but I still dont know what to think about that. It seems promising but on the other hand I dont feel like it fits my character. I'm not going to say it categorically, but every PUA I've met seems to have some serious issues with self-esteem, perceived success, women as autonomous entities, or relationships in general. Agreed, that said those guys are using PUA as a means to an end, getting laid. There's actually a lot of general good advice on lifestyle, self-esteem etc that is more of a bedrock that future success with women is to be grounded in. The PUA folk I meet tend to not pursue self-improvement for its OWN sake, even though pUA stuff I've read stresses the inportance of doing so.Tbh I don't get the fuss with getting laid, I find the average person in a bar and other such environments dull as fucking dishwater. Still, for all my skepticism there is definitely good stuff in the PUA community
That always reminds me of a guy I met once at a convention who was talking about how he can have great relationships for a week or two but then he runs out of material and he was wondering how he can can make longer relationships work without memorizing more stuff. ._.
@above: You can even pay a couple of thousand dollars to enlarge your penis improve your dating life! Works guaranteed! (Yes, good coaches exist. But they're kinda rare compared to how much there is on the market.)
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Mind blown, r.Evo. I'm rather grateful I have no need, sounds awful, lol.
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On May 10 2013 06:06 Garfailed wrote:
I've only kissed a girl twice, and never had girlfriend.
And next month i turn 19...
Im rather pathetic...
Pretty much the embodiment of the problem I was describing. Why do you want a girlfriend? How does it fit into your life? What kind of personalities do you bond with? Are you really interested in commitment, or do you just want a girlfriend because it's something you are supposed to have, to be cool or some other such bullshit?
Taking random pot shots with the half-hearted efforts that result from beating yourself up gets you nowhere, ever. Decide, and committ.
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On May 10 2013 07:00 r.Evo wrote:
@above: You can even pay a couple of thousand dollars to enlarge your penis
Hey you can do it for free
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On May 10 2013 06:06 Garfailed wrote:
I've only kissed a girl twice, and never had girlfriend.
And next month i turn 19...
Im rather pathetic...
You are not even 20 and have still the majority of your life in the future. Nothing to complain about.
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On May 10 2013 06:06 Garfailed wrote:
I've only kissed a girl twice, and never had girlfriend.
And next month i turn 19...
Im rather pathetic...
Thats not pathetic at all man. Whats pathetic is the voice inside your head that you let beat the shit out of you over something that you would probably regret doing anyways. When you hear that voice, tell it to shut the fuck up, and get back to working on yourself. Do good in school, find out what makes you happy in your life, and naturally you will run into people that you can date. If you cannot be happy on your own, no relationship that is any good for you is gonna help.
Anyways thats the advice I need for myself too. Just got out of a relationship and I won't be trying to get back into one for a while. I need to work on myself.
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Northern Ireland26505 Posts
I dunno Cloud, my favoured vids for that are the ones of you caster bashing.
@evo, I see perception of the PUA community as analogous to that of the feminist movement. The annoying and the idiotic distort how everybody else is viewed.
Also, I like this thread, there are quite a few regulars here, which I always love in a thread, I'm rather intrigued as to the men behind the screenames at this stage!
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On May 10 2013 07:07 McBengt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 06:06 Garfailed wrote:
I've only kissed a girl twice, and never had girlfriend.
And next month i turn 19...
Im rather pathetic... Pretty much the embodiment of the problem I was describing. Why do you want a girlfriend? How does it fit into your life? What kind of personalities do you bond with? Are you really interested in commitment, or do you just want a girlfriend because it's something you are supposed to have, to be cool or some other such bullshit? Taking random pot shots with the half-hearted efforts that result from beating yourself up gets you nowhere, ever. Decide, and committ.
I'll be completely honest, I think alot of people(myself included) have problems with feeling alone like that, like no ones there to actually give a shit about you, which leads to wanting and doing alot of stuff you wouldnt otherwise do if you didn't feel that way imo.
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On May 10 2013 07:35 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 07:07 McBengt wrote:On May 10 2013 06:06 Garfailed wrote:
I've only kissed a girl twice, and never had girlfriend.
And next month i turn 19...
Im rather pathetic... Pretty much the embodiment of the problem I was describing. Why do you want a girlfriend? How does it fit into your life? What kind of personalities do you bond with? Are you really interested in commitment, or do you just want a girlfriend because it's something you are supposed to have, to be cool or some other such bullshit? Taking random pot shots with the half-hearted efforts that result from beating yourself up gets you nowhere, ever. Decide, and committ. I'll be completely honest, I think alot of people(myself included) have problems with feeling alone like that, like no ones there to actually give a shit about you, which leads to wanting and doing alot of stuff you wouldnt otherwise do if you didn't feel that way imo.
Of course, I know what it's like to be confused teenager overflowing with hormones, despite the impression I may give off, I actually do have a mostly normal range of emotions, I promise.
The problem with this kind of emotional flailing is that whatever you reach for just becomes a surrogate for other things that are missing, which is a terrible way to make decisions. It will be hard, but you need to step outside yourself and try to do a calm, objective assessment.
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Long distance sucks but he's a qt patootie who's worth it :3
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On May 10 2013 07:09 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 07:00 r.Evo wrote:
@above: You can even pay a couple of thousand dollars to enlarge your penis Hey you can do it for free
Cloud strikes again!
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On May 10 2013 06:06 Garfailed wrote:
I've only kissed a girl twice, and never had girlfriend.
And next month i turn 19...
Im rather pathetic...
yes, yes you are.
I had my first woman when I was 3,
I had my first threesome when I was 5,
became a pimp when I was 9,
mastered the art of Karma Sutra when I was 11,
seduced Angelina Jolie when I was 13,
and created by own army of brainwashed female followers by the time I was 15...
how come you can't do these things? could it be because..... you suck???
+ Show Spoiler +seriously though, you will look back on yourself 5 years from now and realize that it's not a big deal at all
why do you even worry about it?
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On May 10 2013 07:24 Wombat_NI wrote:
I dunno Cloud, my favoured vids for that are the ones of you caster bashing.
@evo, I see perception of the PUA community as analogous to that of the feminist movement. The annoying and the idiotic distort how everybody else is viewed.
Also, I like this thread, there are quite a few regulars here, which I always love in a thread, I'm rather intrigued as to the men behind the screenames at this stage!
I'm no man, I'm a mere fool ;_;. More seriously though, the PUA community is tarnished with things like negging and such that have really dragged their names through the dirt. I read The Game by Neil Strauss and his follow up Rules of the Game and I realized from reading it that the PUA community is basically made up of people who are naturals and have no issues getting girls or people who really need that leg up (through systems and such, which fail miserably once you have the girl) to get themselves even into "the game." They actually can have some extremely useful advice, and the main point of it is to get oneself out there and at least try, and to also make people realize that getting a girl isn't some genetic or god given gift. Unfortunately people take it too far, to the point where girls become objects, and the people lose sight of the point of being a PUA; the idea for normal people is to learn how to pick up girls, maybe use a few tricks, but mostly learn how to be a social individual who can thrive (or at the least survive) in a conversation with an attractive female. Some people in the community have taken it too far and have made it a dick wagging contest. That is what I learned from the book at least, and that was 9 years ago now or so, I believe. It was a good read though. It is very much the way you say it is.
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On May 10 2013 06:06 Garfailed wrote:
I've only kissed a girl twice, and never had girlfriend.
And next month i turn 19...
Im rather pathetic...
You've kissed a girl twice. That's already 2 more than I have, and I'm 18 as well. I've never had a girlfriend, and I've never really cared to get one either yet. I don't know why you call yourself pathetic when no one really cares about how many girlfriends you've had. I don't think I'm pathetic just because I've never had a girlfriend. I don't measure my success with girlfriends. Neither should you.
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On May 10 2013 07:24 Wombat_NI wrote:
@evo, I see perception of the PUA community as analogous to that of the feminist movement. The annoying and the idiotic distort how everybody else is viewed.
Goddamn. Why did you have to put that out there. I'm one of the people who usually get pissy about the "feminist movement" based on knowing a couple of "feminists" who are incredibly obnoxious. And when I then mention their big points to people actually into more than just posting dumb pictures on facebook answers are like "wait those are idiots, not feminists". =P
Super good analogy.
@doc: Agree, those are also things I'd consider great to learn from that community. Negging is a super fun case of something completely being blown out of proportion. The basic assumption of "negs are great to open when she has a much higher status than you" (which is awkward because that concept implies having lower status than her already, but let's keep that aside) turned into "negs are great when she's looking great".
Suddenly you have the majority of people seeing the concept applying it in situations towards women where it makes no sense at all, crash and afterwards call those women "LSE" (low-self-esteem) or "bitchy". Since that in turn makes the rejection feel better (yo it's her fault I did everything right yo) it creates this huge circlejerk where the initial idea ("I can change my approach to what better fits the woman") is completely forgotten. <3
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On May 10 2013 01:06 kaluro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 22:34 Ryder. wrote:On May 09 2013 17:01 kaluro wrote:On May 09 2013 16:18 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:On May 09 2013 14:34 Zooper31 wrote:On May 09 2013 13:41 arb wrote:On May 09 2013 12:34 Zooper31 wrote:On May 09 2013 12:04 B.I.G. wrote:
You stayed at her place a few days? Man i wouldn't be a happy boyfriend if I would find out about that... That'd be enough for me to break up if I had a gf. Her cuddling with another guy period, let alone, alone at her place without my knowledge. I do feel kinda douchey about it, but idk. she said she didnt consider it cheating, and i told myself i wouldnt do anything else since she was dating someone. Like I know it was a REALLLLLLLL asshole thing to do, but it takes two to tango, and its not like i forced the point or tried anything else. dunno, shes all about trying to keep it secretive and shit so idk wtf. It's cheating regardless of how she feels about it. And yes it is a douchey thing to do, two wrong's don't make a right. You can try to make w/e logical explanation about it you want but you know what you're doing. You're making a girl cheat on her bf and you're as low as they come atm. I'd be ashamed and I've never ever do such a thing if I actually wanted to think highly of myself. A boyfriend is not a husband. If one likes a girl he should try to go for it even if she has a boyfriend. It can only have a positive ending: 1. She breaks up with her current boyfriend for you: they were not meant to be together. 2. She repells you and stays with her boyfriend: it strengthen their couple. There is nothing douchey about any of it as long as nobody is actually forced to do anything. What's douchey is trying to hide or not assuming it. If you would try to hook up with my girlfriend, there would be a very bad ending for you  . If you're willing to go for an already taken girl, you have no self respect and are the worst kind of trash there is. If you'd try anything on my girlfriend I would first kindly ask you to step away but if you would keep interfering I wouldn't mind taking it to a whole other level, people like you are horrible disrespectful persons with no dignity and don't deserve any respect whatsoever. Trying to break an established relationship for self gain is cool and all, but at the same point you shouldn't start whining when the consequences show themselves around the corner and you're sitting at home with either a black eye or being on a bad stance with someone. Taking responsibility and not whining is part of what you'd be doing. Also I'd trust my girlfriend to blow you off immediately and inform me if you would keep harassing her, at which the ending wouldn't look any prettier. It's really easy to be an E-hero online and say the stuff you just did, but on the same note i bet you'd be this tiny skinny guy in real life who wouldn't even know what to say the moment he got approached aggressively because of the actions he'd never even be daring to take. Also if your girl is gonna do anything with another guy then she ain't 'your girl', and if she wouldn't do anything with another guy what have you got to worry about? No need to go flexing your guns to show off what a man you are. Edit: also hope you see the irony of the whole 'e-hero' thing you speak of. Call me crazy, but IMO hooking up with a consenting girl who has a bf doesn't make you a worse person than this bullshit, thuggery 'you hit on my girl and ill bash you bro' bullshit you are spouting. Assault is just a game to you is it? Put a guy in a coma cause you king hit him is all good, but god forbid a guy hook up with a willing girl who happens to be in a relationship...it makes me sad that guys so full of pride like you exist. If you would have had proper reading comprehension, you would've been able to read that there would only be a super slight chance of that happening, physical assault that is. I would approach the guy and have a really good chat with him. If that guy would keep interfering and continuing and not listening and specifically harassing me and the girlfriend, other actions would be taken yes. You can read specifically that I would never resort to that, unless he harasses us and the girl is not up for it and he won't quit. At which it would simply have been self defense. Being nice, then being less nice and less nice, while remaining in a non physical stance - is allowed. There is nothing wrong with that. But of course you had to blow it out of proportions in such extreme sense that it would appear as if I'd actively beat people into comas for saying hi to my girlfriend :'). Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 22:52 McBengt wrote:On May 09 2013 19:32 Wombat_NI wrote:
Some people don't have that urge, for whatever reasons they may have for that. I don't really associate settling down with maturity as such, although there will be some crossover. One of the many reasons you are my favorite person on this website. It's such a silly and arbitrary barometer for what constitutes a full life.
Alpha mature people are adult people that value the above things, among other things. They are responsible for their own actions and for their partner and don't come up with weirdo excuses.
Thank god you can easily differentiate between alphas and betas.
Now, since you're most obviously just trolling I am going to leave it at this, enjoy your school - bro.
I am still curious about your age, seeing how you're not having the urge to settle with one person yet.
Good to know that you have figured out how the world and the people in it work, I was worried there for a second. It's extra cool that you provided a completely arbitrary criteria for alpha and beta people, very helpful. Of course you can't be a real adult or an alpha person without a significant other, what was I thinking. And of course, the ever green classic; trolling = won't agree with me. You may want to look around, read some books, meet some people who aren't like you before you spout more condescending, judgemental nonsense, just a tip. Still trollnig, you beta weakling? and I asked you a question: How old are you? In what stage of life are you? Just like i elaborated on what the values of a relationship are, just for you, you can answer my wondering question. Good to see how you entirely ignored that part of the post, too. Especially after specifically asking about it. How is that not trolling? The same way as you going super ad hominem isn't? People who fall pray to your faulty excuses for cheating are betas, it's easy as that. They have no self control and will never be proper long-term dating material until they get a grip. Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 23:25 freewareplayer wrote:
Personally i didnt cheat yet, but i dont act like people who do are all immature and whatnot. Dont judge so much.
Sex is an impulse, getting a boner if something is really hot, is not really a choice. Being commited to one person is a choice.
Now if someone is completly faithfull and can resist all temptations while in a relationship, kudos and respect for that, i value loyalty much myself.
BUT, i really dont like this moral apostel crap if people havent resisted themself. All the people saying " I have never cheated, and i WILL NEVER cheat bla bla", i maybe believe 5 % of those people.
Not cheating isnt an accomplishment if there wasnt any temptation to begin with. Lets say your out with your dudes, on a private party, you drank like a truck for whatever reason, you arent there for chicks. But along comes this 11/10 point chick who will try to nonstop get you horny. With whatever excuse she gets you upstairs or what and just undresses and jumps you, while your rly drunk and she is hot hot hot as fuck and would basicly have to get thrown off by you.
If you resist that, you can talk all day about how you will never cheat ever.
If you didnt resist fuckall temptations, dont talk about what you would or would not do. Cause chances are you dont know. Humans are really awesome at convincing themselfes with whatever they want.
How do you know what you will do, till you have done it?
Personally, i really wouldnt know what i would do. I would like to think im strong enough to say no, but im still just a horny animal at some point.
So till either happened, some people shouldnt act like they ate modern relationship values, with some moral judgement for breakfast.
You don't know me, you don't know what temptations I did and did not resist. Yet here you are talking like you have been my best friend over the past 25 years. As I said before, if you are unable to control your impulses while drunk - Drink less, don't drink at all, or break up with your girlfriend. I value my relationship(s) too much to completely ruin it with a one night stand, doesn't matter who is trying to tempt me or what kind of drugs I would have taken. May I know your age as well, out of curiousity  Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 23:25 freewareplayer wrote:
edit: rofl at this dude who first makes it seem like its the easiest thing to control sexual impulses, and everyone who doesnt is a douche. Then he implies he would beat someone up who angers him, an even worse impulse he would give into hahahahahaha. You just made urself look like the nr. 1 douche here. gotta love Hypocrites I never said I would hit anyone during and anger impulse. It was a general example of a spontaneous impulse without any personal relation. You too, should stop taking things out of context and putting them down as lies. Have you ever considered becoming a journalist? Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 00:47 RvB wrote:On May 09 2013 23:25 freewareplayer wrote:
Personally i didnt cheat yet, but i dont act like people who do are all immature and whatnot. Dont judge so much.
Sex is an impulse, getting a boner if something is really hot, is not really a choice. Being commited to one person is a choice.
Now if someone is completly faithfull and can resist all temptations while in a relationship, kudos and respect for that, i value loyalty much myself.
BUT, i really dont like this moral apostel crap if people havent resisted themself. All the people saying " I have never cheated, and i WILL NEVER cheat bla bla", i maybe believe 5 % of those people.
Not cheating isnt an accomplishment if there wasnt any temptation to begin with. Lets say your out with your dudes, on a private party, you drank like a truck for whatever reason, you arent there for chicks. But along comes this 11/10 point chick who will try to nonstop get you horny. With whatever excuse she gets you upstairs or what and just undresses and jumps you, while your rly drunk and she is hot hot hot as fuck and would basicly have to get thrown off by you.
If you resist that, you can talk all day about how you will never cheat ever.
If you didnt resist fuckall temptations, dont talk about what you would or would not do. Cause chances are you dont know. Humans are really awesome at convincing themselfes with whatever they want.
How do you know what you will do, till you have done it?
Personally, i really wouldnt know what i would do. I would like to think im strong enough to say no, but im still just a horny animal at some point.
So till either happened, some people shouldnt act like they ate modern relationship values, with some moral judgement for breakfast.
edit: rofl at this dude who first makes it seem like its the easiest thing to control sexual impulses, and everyone who doesnt is a douche. Then he implies he would beat someone up who angers him, an even worse impulse he would give into hahahahahaha. You just made urself look like the nr. 1 douche here. gotta love Hypocrites I think most men couldn't even resist the chick when they're sober. We should totally organize a party and hire this 11/10 girl to try and make every single one of us horny and check the outcome x).. at least 3 people in this thread are dutch, who's with me!? :-) Don't forget to place record it all, of course!
If you would try to hook up with my girlfriend, there would be a very bad ending for you .
Trying to break an established relationship for self gain is cool and all, but at the same point you shouldn't start whining when the consequences show themselves around the corner and you're sitting at home with either a black eye or being on a bad stance with someone.
Thought I would emphasis the parts of your statement I was referring to. Please don't bring up this 'reading comprehension' bullshit.I don't see you mention anything to do with 'self defence' here in your original post, you are specifically referring to 'trying to break an established relationship' which, you know, what this whole topic has been about, not harassment or self defence... But nice dodge nevertheless. The conversation had never been about self defence so don't try and bring that up just cause you realise you look like a thug.
Clearly if a guy is simply harassing your girlfriend its a different issue, but this whole conversation has been assuming it is all consensual.
Edit: Also you can 'self defence' all you want but in the eyes of the law at least if someone is harassing you the correct thing to do is call the police and try avoid him. Try telling the cops you king hit a guy because he 'hit on your girlfriend' see how far that gets you with your self defence plea. Regardless this is all off topic because we were talking about guys who hook up with girls who are in a relationship (assuming consent from both parties), not guys who harass girls despite them saying no, so please stop trying to squirm your way out of your barbaric, immature statement.
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Northern Ireland26505 Posts
On May 10 2013 12:43 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 07:24 Wombat_NI wrote:
@evo, I see perception of the PUA community as analogous to that of the feminist movement. The annoying and the idiotic distort how everybody else is viewed. Goddamn. Why did you have to put that out there. I'm one of the people who usually get pissy about the "feminist movement" based on knowing a couple of "feminists" who are incredibly obnoxious. And when I then mention their big points to people actually into more than just posting dumb pictures on facebook answers are like "wait those are idiots, not feminists". =P Super good analogy. @doc: Agree, those are also things I'd consider great to learn from that community. Negging is a super fun case of something completely being blown out of proportion. The basic assumption of "negs are great to open when she has a much higher status than you" (which is awkward because that concept implies having lower status than her already, but let's keep that aside) turned into "negs are great when she's looking great". Suddenly you have the majority of people seeing the concept applying it in situations towards women where it makes no sense at all, crash and afterwards call those women "LSE" (low-self-esteem) or "bitchy". Since that in turn makes the rejection feel better (yo it's her fault I did everything right yo) it creates this huge circlejerk where the initial idea ("I can change my approach to what better fits the woman") is completely forgotten. <3
I picked it specially for you Evo, I do notice your presence in those feminism threads 
Negging is the most frequently misused concept as far as I can tell. A bit of playful joshing to flip around perceptions, which iirc is called 'displaying higher value' is pretty good, seems to work. Some guys just mistake this as 'be insulting' and end up coming off as assholes.
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