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On September 23 2011 04:58 scFoX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 04:52 Googity wrote:
They ran the same test over 15,000 times always coming up with the same results. The only reason they published their data is so that another laboratory could possibly run the same tests. If multiple labs come up with the same information then physics as we know it just got thrown out the window. Physics as we know it can't be "thrown out of the window." Many people seem to be forgetting that for a new theory to work, it has to explain plausibly everything that is already taken into account by the Standard Model. Of course, it doesn't rule out cases like this, but violations of key concepts are only possible in extreme cases (otherwise we would have discovered it before). We'll have to see what other labs have to say in view of this data. One of the great things about science is when everyone puts their head together and pushes back the limits of human knowledge. 
Keep in mind, we don't have a theory that explains all physical phenomenon anyway. We have two theories, special and general relativity, and then string theory, which tries to reconcile the two. Last time I checked there has been no evidence to suggest string theory is true.
If it turns out that there is no universal speed limit, then we really do have to throw out everything we know, since the speed of light is important for all of physics. Fortunately, its probably systematic error, so I wouldn't worry about having to throw out everything.
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Watching re-runs of SG-1 and SG Atlantis will never be the same after hearing these news!
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On September 23 2011 04:45 Kipsate wrote:
And we shall call it
Warp speed.
Yes please?
haha yea
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 23 2011 05:10 gurrpp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 04:58 scFoX wrote:On September 23 2011 04:52 Googity wrote:
They ran the same test over 15,000 times always coming up with the same results. The only reason they published their data is so that another laboratory could possibly run the same tests. If multiple labs come up with the same information then physics as we know it just got thrown out the window. Physics as we know it can't be "thrown out of the window." Many people seem to be forgetting that for a new theory to work, it has to explain plausibly everything that is already taken into account by the Standard Model. Of course, it doesn't rule out cases like this, but violations of key concepts are only possible in extreme cases (otherwise we would have discovered it before). We'll have to see what other labs have to say in view of this data. One of the great things about science is when everyone puts their head together and pushes back the limits of human knowledge. Keep in mind, we don't have a theory that explains all physical phenomenon anyway. We have two theories, special and general relativity, and then string theory, which tries to reconcile the two. Last time I checked there has been no evidence to suggest string theory is true. If it turns out that there is no universal speed limit, then we really do have to throw out everything we know, since the speed of light is important for all of physics. Fortunately, its probably systematic error, so I wouldn't worry about having to throw out everything.
String theory doesn't try to reconcile special and general relativity. Special relativity is, as the name implies, a special case of general relativity. String theory, along with other theories of everything are trying to reconcile general relativity and quantum mechanics. Although this is a really over simplified way of looking at it.
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On September 23 2011 05:10 gurrpp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 04:58 scFoX wrote:On September 23 2011 04:52 Googity wrote:
They ran the same test over 15,000 times always coming up with the same results. The only reason they published their data is so that another laboratory could possibly run the same tests. If multiple labs come up with the same information then physics as we know it just got thrown out the window. Physics as we know it can't be "thrown out of the window." Many people seem to be forgetting that for a new theory to work, it has to explain plausibly everything that is already taken into account by the Standard Model. Of course, it doesn't rule out cases like this, but violations of key concepts are only possible in extreme cases (otherwise we would have discovered it before). We'll have to see what other labs have to say in view of this data. One of the great things about science is when everyone puts their head together and pushes back the limits of human knowledge. Keep in mind, we don't have a theory that explains all physical phenomenon anyway. We have two theories, special and general relativity, and then string theory, which tries to reconcile the two. Last time I checked there has been no evidence to suggest string theory is true. If it turns out that there is no universal speed limit, then we really do have to throw out everything we know, since the speed of light is important for all of physics. Fortunately, its probably systematic error, so I wouldn't worry about having to throw out everything.
It may and it may not be, even if it is its not like we will scrap everything ever written, but leave it as true in given conditions, like newton mechanics. I actually would like if it were true, shit were growing stale in theoritical physics
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On September 23 2011 05:10 gurrpp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 04:58 scFoX wrote:On September 23 2011 04:52 Googity wrote:
They ran the same test over 15,000 times always coming up with the same results. The only reason they published their data is so that another laboratory could possibly run the same tests. If multiple labs come up with the same information then physics as we know it just got thrown out the window. Physics as we know it can't be "thrown out of the window." Many people seem to be forgetting that for a new theory to work, it has to explain plausibly everything that is already taken into account by the Standard Model. Of course, it doesn't rule out cases like this, but violations of key concepts are only possible in extreme cases (otherwise we would have discovered it before). We'll have to see what other labs have to say in view of this data. One of the great things about science is when everyone puts their head together and pushes back the limits of human knowledge. Keep in mind, we don't have a theory that explains all physical phenomenon anyway. We have two theories, special and general relativity, and then string theory, which tries to reconcile the two. Last time I checked there has been no evidence to suggest string theory is true. If it turns out that there is no universal speed limit, then we really do have to throw out everything we know, since the speed of light is important for all of physics. Fortunately, its probably systematic error, so I wouldn't worry about having to throw out everything.
Even if this is real, everything that has been developed so far in the engineering world is based on the current speed of light, and it works. It'd end up being a special condition, like what relativity theory is, "are we in a realm of parameters where this matters", "no, good, we'll go with the classical mechanics then".
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On September 23 2011 04:43 Tuba wrote:
Most of me expects them to discover it was some kind of error... But the kid in me wants it to be some kind of new groundbreaking science that takes us closer to cruising around the galaxy in spaceships. This.
I hope it's true, because that would mean lots of exciting stuff (hopefully). I don't think it is though, it's probably just an error.
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Well, I'm gonna drop the bomb now.
BUILD A SPACESHIP OUT OF NEUTRINOS
Concerning the nobel prize, please pm me.
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Thank goodness I finished my pre-requisite physics course years ago. By the way, I'm rolling my eyes here.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 23 2011 05:13 Jakalo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 05:10 gurrpp wrote:On September 23 2011 04:58 scFoX wrote:On September 23 2011 04:52 Googity wrote:
They ran the same test over 15,000 times always coming up with the same results. The only reason they published their data is so that another laboratory could possibly run the same tests. If multiple labs come up with the same information then physics as we know it just got thrown out the window. Physics as we know it can't be "thrown out of the window." Many people seem to be forgetting that for a new theory to work, it has to explain plausibly everything that is already taken into account by the Standard Model. Of course, it doesn't rule out cases like this, but violations of key concepts are only possible in extreme cases (otherwise we would have discovered it before). We'll have to see what other labs have to say in view of this data. One of the great things about science is when everyone puts their head together and pushes back the limits of human knowledge. Keep in mind, we don't have a theory that explains all physical phenomenon anyway. We have two theories, special and general relativity, and then string theory, which tries to reconcile the two. Last time I checked there has been no evidence to suggest string theory is true. If it turns out that there is no universal speed limit, then we really do have to throw out everything we know, since the speed of light is important for all of physics. Fortunately, its probably systematic error, so I wouldn't worry about having to throw out everything. It may and it may not be, even if it is its not like we will scrap everything ever written, but leave it as true in given conditions, like newton mechanics. I actually would like if it were true, shit were growing stale in theoritical physics
I think its only gotten a bit stale because we have no experimental way of testing the predictions of string theory. This seems unlikely to me as it seemed like we are honing in on some consistent theory of everything, even if its a long way away still, and this seems to be too far off the direction we were headed. Stranger things have happened though.
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On September 23 2011 05:17 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Well, I'm gonna drop the bomb now.
BUILD A SPACESHIP OUT OF NEUTRINOS
Concerning the nobel prize, please pm me.
Carrier has arrived
edit: wrong quote...
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On September 23 2011 05:17 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
Well, I'm gonna drop the bomb now.
BUILD A SPACESHIP OUT OF NEUTRINOS
Concerning the nobel prize, please pm me.
And where would people ride in that? They should build an engine that propels the space ship using these neutrinos.
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I want to quote Douglas Adams:
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
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This is amazing. As stated in the AP article their error was estimated at 10 ns, while the particle traveled the distance 60 ns faster than the speed of light. Fermilab also got a similar result earlier, but had too great of an error to conclude anything.
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60 nanoseconds is a tremendously significant figure. This could reshape modern physics.
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On September 23 2011 05:00 cptKewk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 04:52 DarkEnergy wrote:On September 23 2011 04:50 cptKewk wrote:On September 23 2011 04:39 SomeONEx wrote:
I have never really understood my good 'ole teacher when he told me that things can't be faster then the speed of light. "It's only a matter of time before "we" break the laws" said to him, and it seems (for now) as though I was right. I would say that it is more likely to be a mistake. I mean why are these neutrino different from others? that is what I don't get. They are just subatomic particles. As far as i knew they shot one from each side and let them collide creating exotic particle's and then they analyse it. You mean that they collided the neutrinos and measured the energy of the created particles? makes sense, haven't read the explination of the experiment but what I meant was why haven't we seen neutrinos move faster than light before? (maybe you answered that just now and I misunderstood you)
I don't know everything about their experiments but there is something I do know: Neutrinos are by definition neutral particles. Meaning they can't control them and accelerate them and make them collide. They can make particles collide and neutrinos may be creating in those experiments, but that doesn't change the fact you're just saying random shit. Exotic particles are theoretical particles in super-symmetric theory that haven't been observed...The most well known 'exotic particle' is the tachyon and even if it exists we'll never observe it considering it has an imaginary proper time.
We're bombarded by neutrinos (of each of the 3 types) everyday. Nuclear Fusion in the sun produces them. We detect them underground using heavy water. We understand their occurrence and their behavior to some extent.
Clearly something weird is going on. I don't even think it's physically possible to observe something traveling faster than light, simply because something faster than light doesn't have mass. According to the laws of relativity they have a negative proper time which is something we don't even understand.
Relativity works for subparticles. A good example is the Muon Neutrino created by high energetic cosmic rays in our upper atmosphere. Those particles are unstable and decay in a certain time. According to their speed they shouldn't even have time to reach the earth but they do because they go at a velocity very close to light and so the distance from them to the earth is contracted by a factor of gamma.
Again the laws have always worked for the known sub-particles and perhaps this is an amazing discovery but there's a lot of random speculation in this thread; about as useful as this article.
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Maybe they made an error in the length of the tube? 732km is long distance, prone to mistakes ? Maybe even a couple of cm's could make a difference?
Dunno lol, but this shit, I find it interesting :p
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I will say this, We should stop CERN before they create a time machine with this technology! They will create a dystopia ruled by CERN it will be the end of the world as we know it.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On September 23 2011 05:22 j0k3r wrote:
60 nanoseconds is a tremendously significant figure. This could reshape modern physics.
I'm by no means a qualified physicist but wouldn't this mean that a neutrino is about 1.000024001 times faster than the speed of light? What's so significant?
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EPT
