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On September 23 2011 04:49 Steel wrote:
Everyone hold your horses. Muons already move at 0.99c so this might just be an overlooked effect of relativity...and also this is the news..
I think that they've calculated the relativity thing over and over, especially if they get results that are faster than light, it's not like they've gone t=v*d (or what you use for distance). Only reason that it could be miscalculation of relativity is if they suck at it (like I do lol ;D)
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Im holding my breath, but still interesting story line here..
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My guess is that they will utilize this technology to create a Time Machine based on black hole technology and establish a dystopia type society. We must put a stop to this for this is the choice of Steins;Gate
on a much more serious note, very good stuff, love tech advancements. So much posibilities within this kind of technology, it seems that some fiction novel stuff are with in humanitarian reach already
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Are we sure it is from CERN:
An Italian experiment has unveiled evidence that fundamental particles known as neutrinos can travel faster than light. Other researchers are cautious about the result, but if it stands further scrutiny, the finding would overturn the most fundamental rule of modern physics — that nothing travels faster than 299,792,458 metres per second.
The experiment is called OPERA (Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking Apparatus), and lies 1,400 metres underground in the Gran Sasso National Laboratory in Italy. It is designed to study a beam of neutrinos coming from CERN, Europe's premier high-energy physics laboratory located 730 kilometres away near Geneva, Switzerland. Neutrinos are fundamental particles that are electrically neutral, rarely interact with other matter, and have a vanishingly small mass. But they are all around us — the Sun produces so many neutrinos as a by-product of nuclear reactions that many billions pass through your eye every second.
The 1,800-tonne OPERA detector is a complex array of electronics and photographic emulsion plates, but the new result is simple — the neutrinos are arriving 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light allows. "We are shocked," says Antonio Ereditato, a physicist at the University of Bern in Switzerland and OPERA's spokesman.
Source
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I think this is clear proof that underground whales do exist and that they are coming soon.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I think the most important part of that article is probably
In the meantime, the group says it is being very cautious about its claims.
On September 23 2011 04:41 Mowr wrote:News media simply cannot report about science since they do not care at all about the scientific process. Never trust any headlines. Ever.
The article and especially the headline for this story really isn't very sensationalistic. All it says is that the results are baffling and suggest that the neutrinos are travelling faster than light but the researchers are letting other scientists look at the results to see if they can verify or disprove.
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On September 23 2011 04:36 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Perhaps they are mistaking the distance between the source and the detection.
i havent read what this 'tiny of a fraction of a second' is exactly, but consider the speed of light at a bit under 300,000~ km in that second ...
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On September 23 2011 04:52 Googity wrote:
They ran the same test over 15,000 times always coming up with the same results. The only reason they published their data is so that another laboratory could possibly run the same tests. If multiple labs come up with the same information then physics as we know it just got thrown out the window.
Physics as we know it can't be "thrown out of the window." Many people seem to be forgetting that for a new theory to work, it has to explain plausibly everything that is already taken into account by the Standard Model. Of course, it doesn't rule out cases like this, but violations of key concepts are only possible in extreme cases (otherwise we would have discovered it before).
We'll have to see what other labs have to say in view of this data. One of the great things about science is when everyone puts their head together and pushes back the limits of human knowledge. 
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On September 23 2011 04:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Are we sure it is from CERN: Show nested quote +An Italian experiment has unveiled evidence that fundamental particles known as neutrinos can travel faster than light. Other researchers are cautious about the result, but if it stands further scrutiny, the finding would overturn the most fundamental rule of modern physics — that nothing travels faster than 299,792,458 metres per second.
The experiment is called OPERA (Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking Apparatus), and lies 1,400 metres underground in the Gran Sasso National Laboratory in Italy. It is designed to study a beam of neutrinos coming from CERN, Europe's premier high-energy physics laboratory located 730 kilometres away near Geneva, Switzerland. Neutrinos are fundamental particles that are electrically neutral, rarely interact with other matter, and have a vanishingly small mass. But they are all around us — the Sun produces so many neutrinos as a by-product of nuclear reactions that many billions pass through your eye every second.
The 1,800-tonne OPERA detector is a complex array of electronics and photographic emulsion plates, but the new result is simple — the neutrinos are arriving 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light allows. "We are shocked," says Antonio Ereditato, a physicist at the University of Bern in Switzerland and OPERA's spokesman. Source
Yeah, thats what I am finding out too. If I am to beleive this man actually works at Gran Sasso, he claims they were sent back and forth. Further research shows he may have been the "Leak" I have the google cache of his article that has since been taken down.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&w=fd0a4525,deb929bb&sig=R6oVQRndSqRxImKDgqX9rQ--&biw=1366&bih=624&source=hp&q=cache:www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor/sixsigma_signal_superluminal_neutrinos_opera-82744&pbx=1&oq=cache:www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor/sixsigma_signal_superluminal_neutrinos_opera-82744&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=9030l13537l1l13839l13l11l6l0l0l2l486l1902l2-1.2.2l11l0
http://www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor
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On September 23 2011 04:52 DarkEnergy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 04:50 cptKewk wrote:On September 23 2011 04:39 SomeONEx wrote:
I have never really understood my good 'ole teacher when he told me that things can't be faster then the speed of light. "It's only a matter of time before "we" break the laws" said to him, and it seems (for now) as though I was right. I would say that it is more likely to be a mistake. I mean why are these neutrino different from others? that is what I don't get. They are just subatomic particles. As far as i knew they shot one from each side and let them collide creating exotic particle's and then they analyse it.
You mean that they collided the neutrinos and measured the energy of the created particles? makes sense, haven't read the explination of the experiment but what I meant was why haven't we seen neutrinos move faster than light before? (maybe you answered that just now and I misunderstood you)
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On September 23 2011 04:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Are we sure it is from CERN:
cut
Italian news just said it's a joint experiment between Laboratori nazionali del Gran Sasso (a well known Italian lab complex) and CERN. The wikipage explains that
"Since late August 2006, CERN has directed a beam of muon neutrinos from the CERN SPS accelerator to the Gran Sasso lab, 730 km away, where they will be detected by the OPERA and ICARUS detectors, in a study of neutrino oscillations that will improve on the results of the Fermilab to MINOS experiment."
Edit: this is the profile page for Mr- Ereditato: http://www.lhep.unibe.ch/pages/people.php?id=4&lang=en.
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This is pretty intriguing.
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On September 23 2011 04:44 Warlike Prince wrote:
my guess, the curvature of the earth is to blame. 700km is enough distance on land that if it went right through the ground it would not have to travel quite than far.
Yeah physicists at CERN don't know about the curvature of the earth. I really hope you're kidding. I guess that's what you can expect from scientific discussions on a gaming forum.
Counting out rudimentary errors, even if there is a systematic error then it's probably an interesting find. Obviously not as large as if they've truly broken the speed of light, but certainly still groundbreaking in some field.
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I highly doubt that an experiment with a difference of 60 nanoseconds, over a distance of 454 miles, measured by humans who are, after all, prone to error, is going to upend decades of science and theory and mathematics. Count me among the strong skeptics for now 
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Damit. I just finished my physics class last year.
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On September 23 2011 04:43 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 04:41 Mowr wrote:
"CERN CAN CREATE BLACK HOLES!" Oh, that wasn't really true.
"CERN FINDS DARK MATTER PARTICLES!" Oh, that was one of the regular statistical anomalies.
"CERN FINDS COSMIC PARTICLES GOVERN CLOUD FORMATION!" Oh, they just found the opposite.
News media simply cannot report about science since they do not care at all about the scientific process. Never trust any headlines. Ever. Then you might want to read the article, along with the headline.
cern is serious business for us who watched s;g
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not meaning to bash on you guys, but im not sure if our explanations are really anywhere near close to the real explanation. im pretty sure these scientists at least "checked their answers" like we were all taught in grade school. Nonetheless im curious how this turns out :D
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Yeah, I am bad at updating my OP and accidentally replied. qq
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 23 2011 04:58 scFoX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 04:52 Googity wrote:
They ran the same test over 15,000 times always coming up with the same results. The only reason they published their data is so that another laboratory could possibly run the same tests. If multiple labs come up with the same information then physics as we know it just got thrown out the window. Physics as we know it can't be "thrown out of the window." Many people seem to be forgetting that for a new theory to work, it has to explain plausibly everything that is already taken into account by the Standard Model. Of course, it doesn't rule out cases like this, but violations of key concepts are only possible in extreme cases (otherwise we would have discovered it before). We'll have to see what other labs have to say in view of this data. One of the great things about science is when everyone puts their head together and pushes back the limits of human knowledge.
This isn't a new theory, it's data. If new data comes up that doesn't agree with your current model then you have to seriously start questioning that model.
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EPT
