On September 24 2011 06:11 starfries wrote: it's not quite the same since what we have here isn't infinite speed and it's just a neutrino, but it would still mean you can send information into the past.
Not necessarily. Some dickery by the universe and physics could still prohibit FTL communications and time travel, like in the case of the tachyon anti-telephone. The universe and physics just seem to conspire against us when it comes to FTL travel and communications.
I have no doubt it won't work, either. The universe is extremely good at protecting causality and cockblocking time travellers. It'd just be interesting finding out why it wouldn't work, provided there are actually ftl neutrinos. And trying to send signals with neutrinos is probably one of the worst ways of communication to begin with. Were you talking about something else with the anti-telephone? As far as I can tell it only doesn't work because tachyons don't exist, and ftl neutrinos would work as a substitute.
I thought the anti-telephone only posed a logical problem if one of the telephoners was moving at a certain velocity... maybe if we stand very still we can recieve neutrino responses before sending a neutrino message :D
On September 24 2011 08:10 Blasterion wrote: So in theory if we were able to send information into the past, say for example, a text message, it could easily change history by correcting the actions of people in the past. And in theory if you send all of your current memories to the past then that would count as a form of time travel, as it transfers your entire consciousness into another timeline.... interesting
quoting attempt to be clever by referencing plot of the manga "Steins;Gate"
On September 24 2011 01:31 emythrel wrote: The speed of light only applies to particles with mass.
So youre going in to the argument saying that Light doesnt have the speed of light ? Considering the photon is massless I mean..
Light only travels at 186,000,252mps in a vacuum...... its slower when travelling through water etc and it is this way because it interacts via the electro-magnetic force. Neutrinos don't.
I wasn't saying that photons dont travel at the speed of light, i was saying that the speed of light as a barrier doesn't apply to massless particles...
On September 24 2011 01:42 Oktyabr wrote:
On September 24 2011 01:37 Robinsa wrote:
On September 24 2011 01:31 emythrel wrote: The speed of light only applies to particles with mass.
So youre going in to the argument saying that Light doesnt have the speed of light ? Considering the photon is massless I mean..
His second line says "it has been thought for a long time that particles without mass see the speed of light as a lower limit, not an upper one."
thanks for the help lol
The speed of light in a vacuum is the maximum speed attainable by massless particles... such as photons.
Actually its the only speed attainable by massless particles. But you know, very little difference.
If we discovered that photons actually had mass, no matter how tiny, we would then still have the cosmic speed limit "c", but it would no longer be the speed at which light travels, just massless particles.
What's the experimental limit on the difference between the speed of light in vacuum and the speed c in the Lorentz transformation?
If you find out let me know... If the neutrinos were traveling faster than the experimental value of c for the Lorentz transformation then that's when the real problems start. If they're just above the speed of light but within the bounds of the Lorentz c then we just have to revise our theory of electromagnetism.
Also having ftl signals is not just fun and games with ansibles and warp drives - it does bad things to causality. I found a nice gif that explains it: it's not quite the same since what we have here isn't infinite speed and it's just a neutrino, but it would still mean you can send information into the past.
So in theory if we were able to send information into the past, say for example, a text message, it could easily change history by correcting the actions of people in the past. And in theory if you send all of your current memories to the past then that would count as a form of time travel, as it transfers your entire consciousness into another timeline.... interesting
It's actually an infinite paradox in a way. The act of sending information to the past influences the present which changes the act of sending information to the past. So you see how it basically occurs an infinite loop.
On September 24 2011 09:03 Cheerio wrote: my best guess is maybe the speed of light was measured incorrecly before and now with modern quipment this is the new speed of light.
Without trying to be mean, I'd love to know whether this was a genuine comment or whether you are deliberately trolling the thread :x
On September 24 2011 09:03 Cheerio wrote: my best guess is maybe the speed of light was measured incorrecly before and now with modern quipment this is the new speed of light.
Without trying to be mean, I'd love to know whether this was a genuine comment or whether you are deliberately trolling the thread :x
Anyone suggesting what they believe to be the solution is either trolling or very naive lol.
On September 24 2011 06:11 starfries wrote: it's not quite the same since what we have here isn't infinite speed and it's just a neutrino, but it would still mean you can send information into the past.
Not necessarily. Some dickery by the universe and physics could still prohibit FTL communications and time travel, like in the case of the tachyon anti-telephone. The universe and physics just seem to conspire against us when it comes to FTL travel and communications.
I have no doubt it won't work, either. The universe is extremely good at protecting causality and cockblocking time travellers. It'd just be interesting finding out why it wouldn't work, provided there are actually ftl neutrinos. And trying to send signals with neutrinos is probably one of the worst ways of communication to begin with. Were you talking about something else with the anti-telephone? As far as I can tell it only doesn't work because tachyons don't exist, and ftl neutrinos would work as a substitute.
I thought the anti-telephone only posed a logical problem if one of the telephoners was moving at a certain velocity... maybe if we stand very still we can recieve neutrino responses before sending a neutrino message :D
I remember reading somewhere that if tachyons existed, the device made to receive them would actually be the one emitting them, and any information "sent" through them would be invariably lost.
On September 24 2011 10:01 Tyrotoxism wrote: Does this mean we're gonna get lag-free SC games?
Not gonna happen, there will be always someone who doesn't calibrate his tachyon/neutrino emitter properly and it can't forward ports
You have to keep in mind that most of our theories regarding time travel both forwards and backwards through time are based on the idea that nothing is faster than the speed of light.
Essentially traveling close to the speed of light could push you forward in time due to relativity and traveling faster than light (if it was possible) might move you backwards in time.
If it found that these neutrinos are moving faster than the speed of light, suddenly everything we think we know about time travel using the speed of light would be broken.
However the more interesting part of this is the fact that FTL is possible. Aliens might appear at our doorstep any minute. Or maybe we can look forward to a future where we are landing on theirs. :D
Note: All of the above is based on whether or not this data does pass the peer review. I'm skeptical myself. But it's still interesting to think about the possibilities.
that would be really interesting if it did move faster than the speed of light. i don't want to believe that einstein was a fraud. he seemed like a genius. though a bit eccentric
On September 24 2011 15:53 chocolatebunny wrote: that would be really interesting if it did move faster than the speed of light. i don't want to believe that einstein was a fraud. he seemed like a genius. though a bit eccentric
I hope for your sake that you're joking.. or that English isn't your first language and you don't know the meaning of "fraud".
On September 24 2011 08:10 Blasterion wrote: So in theory if we were able to send information into the past, say for example, a text message, it could easily change history by correcting the actions of people in the past. And in theory if you send all of your current memories to the past then that would count as a form of time travel, as it transfers your entire consciousness into another timeline.... interesting
It's actually an infinite paradox in a way. The act of sending information to the past influences the present which changes the act of sending information to the past. So you see how it basically occurs an infinite loop.
You can't send anything into past. Just like you can't send anything into the future. Past is no more, future does not exist yet. There is only the moment.
I still don't see how FTL particles can actually influence information IN the past. As far as I can tell, it only imitates sending information earlier with a limit based on time of departure.
On September 24 2011 08:10 Blasterion wrote: So in theory if we were able to send information into the past, say for example, a text message, it could easily change history by correcting the actions of people in the past. And in theory if you send all of your current memories to the past then that would count as a form of time travel, as it transfers your entire consciousness into another timeline.... interesting
It's actually an infinite paradox in a way. The act of sending information to the past influences the present which changes the act of sending information to the past. So you see how it basically occurs an infinite loop.
You can't send anything into past. Just like you can't send anything into the future. Past is no more, future does not exist yet. There is only the moment.
Do you have citations for your claims or at least accepted physical theory that you can detail for us?
what if, they figure out there is in fact a neutrino going faster than light, thus into the past, thus we could send information into the past. So then we receive information that the future sends us. What if, when we receive the first set of information from the future, we decide not to send at our turn. Would the universe explode? Or would a parallel universe would be altered?
Time travel would be fucked up for more than physics reasons.
On September 24 2011 16:22 Steel wrote: what if, they figure out there is in fact a neutrino going faster than light, thus into the past, thus we could send information into the past. So then we receive information that the future sends us. What if, when we receive the first set of information from the future, we decide not to send at our turn. Would the universe explode? Or would a parallel universe would be altered?
Time travel would be fucked up for more than physics reasons.
Dude.. WHAT if, what they really discovered, is a time machine that sends morsecode and these neutrinos aren't just neutrinos but OUR FIRST CONTACT MORSECODE because the furthest you can go back in time is the day that the first time machine was built?
EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Ftl-time-travel-equivalence.gif)
