On August 20 2011 04:47 LegendaryZ wrote: I don't get all of the China hate. It looked to me like the player from Georgetown got beat on after he took a swing at the Chinese player. Did I see it wrong?
On August 19 2011 22:50 MiraKul wrote:
Vid from ABCnews clearly shows what caused the fire.
Watch please.
That's the same video I saw and it's clear that the Gerogetown player took a swing at the Chinese player after the initial contact, which is when the Chinese player turned around and shoved him.
Watch 0:34
Rather, watch for their explanation as to why it led into such a situation.
There is a clear foul from the chinese player on the GT player directly in front of the ref, ref doesn't call it, there is a game where there was 57 freethrows call on GT and only 15 on the home team. Ref not calling fouls chinese players take advange of that and play rough GT player gets sicks of that after the GT player gets pushed mid jump he pushes that player back at which time the brawl happens.
While it's true that both teams had a part in it one of my main points which I really stand by is; The Chinese players escalated the fight much quicker than G.Town did and started using metal objects, including chairs as weapon and stomped on G.Town players they vastly outnumbered. Now, yes the start of the situation could be pointed any of three ways
Are you kidding me? It is very much 100% clear who started this, the chinese players did not seem interested in any kind of brawl, they simply fought for the ball and began running back to their positions when the GTown player took a swing at the chinese player and they noticed it.
Yes the chinese players took it too far with the objects but you are simply trying a bit too hard to portray the american team as innocent, you saying "could be pointed any of the three ways" just isent true and you come across as incredibly biased.
but I think it's pretty clear that in this situation the Chinese team reacted much more poorly than the G.Town players
We should be able to agree that they both acted poorly, the american team did so by starting it all, the chinese team by taking it further than it ever should have gone.
You arent a bad person, your nationality is just clouding your judgement, if someone swung at you like that, you would get pretty pissed and do pretty much the same thing as the chinese players did, anyone would.
The Chinese players and ref are instigators the ref is crooked 57 freethrows against GT and 15 against home team and Chinese players taking advantage of that playing rough and getting away with metaphorical murder, http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=342027&title=basketball-coaching only pisses off the Gt players more, and this is reacting to someone pushing you by ganging up on him and beating him to the ground as he tries to get away as soon as he started to try to get away they should have stopped, at that point it's less like a fight and more like assault. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201229 =p clear instigators are punished more then the one who throws the first punch.
On August 20 2011 05:54 Tyree wrote: You arent a bad person, your nationality is just clouding your judgement, if someone swung at you like that, you would get pretty pissed and do pretty much the same thing as the chinese players did, anyone would.
Go back and read all the chinese people in this thread saying that the chinese team and refs are in the wrong. Its not a nationality thing
On August 19 2011 06:16 S.O.L.I.D. wrote: YEAH AMERICA GET EM
But seriously that's BS, 57 FTs to 15? You've gotta be joking me. I don't really know if you can call the OP biased; if you look at the video the Chinese players run off the bench and basically maul one player, and then chase another one to the sidelines and start beating on him. That's just thuggish and doesn't belong in the sport. Can't imagine any colleges are going to want to go play there in the future after this shit.
If this was between two NBA teams, the first thing I think of is not "holy shit, refs are being bought" I would think "holy shit one team played really rough and got a lot of fouls called..." but I guess once it's another country involved, American pride overtakes common sense right?
It's not common sense being overtaken; there is absolutely no way that there would be a 40 free throw disparity without bias on behalf of the refs. If you followed basketball all you'd realize that. Use YOUR common sense, please.
I find it ridiculous how many people keep claiming how "clear" something is from viewing the videos, when the only thing clear is that everyone who views it has a different opinion of what "really" started the fight. Nothing wrong with giving opinions and having a discussion about what we thought happened, but let's try to avoid countering each other's posts by claiming something is "clear" when it isn't.
With that said, my opinion is that, based on what I've read and seen, it looks like:
1. A lopsided game was being called by the refs in favor of the Chinese team, which is not surprising to me considering how much national pride plays into a situation like this. 2. The Chinese team was playing very physically, which is not surprising since they appeared to be getting outplayed by the Georgetown team (close game despite ridiculous FT disparity) 2. The Georgetown team got frustrated with how lopsided the game was, which is not surprising because of the lopsided nature of the game and the physical play of the Chinese team 3. There was a looseball situation where one of the Georgetown players got bumped by a Chinese player as he was making a pass, which I think is something that happens all the time in looseball situations and not sufficient to justify a shove. 4. The Georgetown player took exception to what he felt was unnecessary and excessive contact and shoved the Chinese player who bumped him, which was probably exacerbated by the lopsidedness of the refereeing and the amount of physical play the Chinese team had been getting away with earlier. 5. The Chinese player who was shoved and a nearby teammate then reacted to the shove by shoving the Georgetown player. 6. Georgetown players jumped in to try to break up the shoving match, as is typical in American basketball (barring a few exceptions, i.e. DET-IND). The Chinese players saw it as a fight starting, and jumped in attacking Georgetown players in an excessive manner. 7. Many Chinese spectators only made things worse by attacking the Georgetown players from the stands by throwing things at them.
I think there's fault on the part of the refs for calling a lopsided game, and thus creating a tension-filled, physical and frustrated environment. I think there's fault on the Georgetown player for shoving the Chinese player after the bump, even though you could argue he had some justification due to the reffing and physical play by the Chinese team, and likely had no idea it would lead to the reaction he got from the Chinese team. I think there's a LOT of fault on the Chinese team for reacting to the shoving match by fighting instead of trying to break it up, and fighting in a very excessive manner, despite being a team of adults playing against college students and being the hosting team in an exhibition game that was supposed to promote good will between the US and China. For all of the talk about national pride, the Chinese team knew that it was representing its country and did so terribly.
I think it's very unfortunate that a lot of people are taking this situation as an excuse to attack or criticize Chinese people as a nationality and/or a race. I'm certain that most Chinese people deplore what the Chinese team did in this situation, and would not have reacted the same way. This was a very particular group of Chinese people, i.e. military people playing a physical sport in a game where national pride was at stake. The potential for some stupid testosterone-induced ugliness to occur was very high. Even if you include the violent fans and biased referees, that group is not indicative of all Chinese people, or even all Chinese people in China.
On August 20 2011 06:13 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I find it ridiculous how many people keep claiming how "clear" something is from viewing the videos, when the only thing clear is that everyone who views it has a different opinion of what "really" started the fight. Nothing wrong with giving opinions and having a discussion about what we thought happened, but let's try to avoid countering each other's posts by claiming something is "clear" when it isn't.
With that said, my opinion is that, based on what I've read and seen, it looks like:
1. A lopsided game was being called by the refs in favor of the Chinese team, which is not surprising to me considering how much national pride plays into a situation like this. 2. The Chinese team was playing very physically, which is not surprising since they appeared to be getting outplayed by the Georgetown team (close game despite ridiculous FT disparity) 2. The Georgetown team got frustrated with how lopsided the game was, which is not surprising because of the lopsided nature of the game and the physical play of the Chinese team 3. There was a looseball situation where one of the Georgetown players got bumped by a Chinese player as he was making a pass, which I think is something that happens all the time in looseball situations and not sufficient to justify a shove. 4. The Georgetown player took exception to what he felt was unnecessary and excessive contact and shoved the Chinese player who bumped him, which was probably exacerbated by the lopsidedness of the refereeing and the amount of physical play the Chinese team had been getting away with earlier. 5. The Chinese player who was shoved and a nearby teammate then reacted to the shove by shoving the Georgetown player. 6. Georgetown players jumped in to try to break up the shoving match, as is typical in American basketball (barring a few exceptions, i.e. DET-IND). The Chinese players saw it as a fight starting, and jumped in attacking Georgetown players in an excessive manner. 7. Many Chinese spectators only made things worse by attacking the Georgetown players from the stands by throwing things at them.
I think there's fault on the part of the refs for calling a lopsided game, and thus creating a tension-filled, physical and frustrated environment. I think there's fault on the Georgetown player for shoving the Chinese player after the bump, even though you could argue he had some justification due to the reffing and physical play by the Chinese team, and likely had no idea it would lead to the reaction he got from the Chinese team. I think there's a LOT of fault on the Chinese team for reacting to the shoving match by fighting instead of trying to break it up, and fighting in a very excessive manner, despite being a team of adults playing against college students and being the hosting team in an exhibition game that was supposed to promote good will between the US and China. For all of the talk about national pride, the Chinese team knew that it was representing its country and did so terribly.
I think it's very unfortunate that a lot of people are taking this situation as an excuse to attack or criticize Chinese people as a nationality and/or a race. I'm certain that most Chinese people deplore what the Chinese team did in this situation, and would not have reacted the same way. This was a very particular group of Chinese people, i.e. military people playing a physical sport in a game where national pride was at stake. The potential for some stupid testosterone-induced ugliness to occur was very high. Even if you include the violent fans and biased referees, that group is not indicative of all Chinese people, or even all Chinese people in China.
I pretty much agree with your post except for the parts I bolded. That seemed a lot more like a punch than a shove from the Georgetown player and also, since when are people in college not adults?
On August 20 2011 06:13 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I find it ridiculous how many people keep claiming how "clear" something is from viewing the videos, when the only thing clear is that everyone who views it has a different opinion of what "really" started the fight. Nothing wrong with giving opinions and having a discussion about what we thought happened, but let's try to avoid countering each other's posts by claiming something is "clear" when it isn't.
With that said, my opinion is that, based on what I've read and seen, it looks like:
1. A lopsided game was being called by the refs in favor of the Chinese team, which is not surprising to me considering how much national pride plays into a situation like this. 2. The Chinese team was playing very physically, which is not surprising since they appeared to be getting outplayed by the Georgetown team (close game despite ridiculous FT disparity) 2. The Georgetown team got frustrated with how lopsided the game was, which is not surprising because of the lopsided nature of the game and the physical play of the Chinese team 3. There was a looseball situation where one of the Georgetown players got bumped by a Chinese player as he was making a pass, which I think is something that happens all the time in looseball situations and not sufficient to justify a shove. 4. The Georgetown player took exception to what he felt was unnecessary and excessive contact and shoved the Chinese player who bumped him, which was probably exacerbated by the lopsidedness of the refereeing and the amount of physical play the Chinese team had been getting away with earlier. 5. The Chinese player who was shoved and a nearby teammate then reacted to the shove by shoving the Georgetown player. 6. Georgetown players jumped in to try to break up the shoving match, as is typical in American basketball (barring a few exceptions, i.e. DET-IND). The Chinese players saw it as a fight starting, and jumped in attacking Georgetown players in an excessive manner. 7. Many Chinese spectators only made things worse by attacking the Georgetown players from the stands by throwing things at them.
I think there's fault on the part of the refs for calling a lopsided game, and thus creating a tension-filled, physical and frustrated environment. I think there's fault on the Georgetown player for shoving the Chinese player after the bump, even though you could argue he had some justification due to the reffing and physical play by the Chinese team, and likely had no idea it would lead to the reaction he got from the Chinese team. I think there's a LOT of fault on the Chinese team for reacting to the shoving match by fighting instead of trying to break it up, and fighting in a very excessive manner, despite being a team of adults playing against college students and being the hosting team in an exhibition game that was supposed to promote good will between the US and China. For all of the talk about national pride, the Chinese team knew that it was representing its country and did so terribly.
I think it's very unfortunate that a lot of people are taking this situation as an excuse to attack or criticize Chinese people as a nationality and/or a race. I'm certain that most Chinese people deplore what the Chinese team did in this situation, and would not have reacted the same way. This was a very particular group of Chinese people, i.e. military people playing a physical sport in a game where national pride was at stake. The potential for some stupid testosterone-induced ugliness to occur was very high. Even if you include the violent fans and biased referees, that group is not indicative of all Chinese people, or even all Chinese people in China.
I pretty much agree with your post except for the parts I bolded. That seemed a lot more like a punch than a shove from the Georgetown player and also, since when are people in college not adults?
To me it looked very much like a shove (not uncommon in basketball when a player gets frustrated, the player who shoves usually gets a Technical Foul). And it looked like he missed shoving as well since the Chinese player was running to play defense. Then obviously the Chinese player shoved back in the American's face! Along with a nearby teammate of the Chinese player shoved.
And there is VERY much a mental difference between adults and College Students; College Students are still growing mentally and maturely. Some progress further than others faster. But there you have it.
On August 20 2011 05:54 Tyree wrote: Are you kidding me? It is very much 100% clear who started this, the chinese players did not seem interested in any kind of brawl, they simply fought for the ball and began running back to their positions when the GTown player took a swing at the chinese player and they noticed it.
the bayi player body checked the GT player. that's a guaranteed foul, if not a flagrant foul. that kind of contact is not normal in a basketball game. and the ref doesn't do shit about it.
therefore, it's not clear who started the brawl.
it's only clear that the bayi players and staff made it much worse, especially when they decide to chase down players who are clearly running away.
it's also not 57 fouls, it's 57 free throws.
57 fouls would mean that they could only field 2 players.
On August 20 2011 06:13 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I find it ridiculous how many people keep claiming how "clear" something is from viewing the videos, when the only thing clear is that everyone who views it has a different opinion of what "really" started the fight. Nothing wrong with giving opinions and having a discussion about what we thought happened, but let's try to avoid countering each other's posts by claiming something is "clear" when it isn't.
With that said, my opinion is that, based on what I've read and seen, it looks like:
1. A lopsided game was being called by the refs in favor of the Chinese team, which is not surprising to me considering how much national pride plays into a situation like this. 2. The Chinese team was playing very physically, which is not surprising since they appeared to be getting outplayed by the Georgetown team (close game despite ridiculous FT disparity) 2. The Georgetown team got frustrated with how lopsided the game was, which is not surprising because of the lopsided nature of the game and the physical play of the Chinese team 3. There was a looseball situation where one of the Georgetown players got bumped by a Chinese player as he was making a pass, which I think is something that happens all the time in looseball situations and not sufficient to justify a shove. 4. The Georgetown player took exception to what he felt was unnecessary and excessive contact and shoved the Chinese player who bumped him, which was probably exacerbated by the lopsidedness of the refereeing and the amount of physical play the Chinese team had been getting away with earlier. 5. The Chinese player who was shoved and a nearby teammate then reacted to the shove by shoving the Georgetown player. 6. Georgetown players jumped in to try to break up the shoving match, as is typical in American basketball (barring a few exceptions, i.e. DET-IND). The Chinese players saw it as a fight starting, and jumped in attacking Georgetown players in an excessive manner. 7. Many Chinese spectators only made things worse by attacking the Georgetown players from the stands by throwing things at them.
I think there's fault on the part of the refs for calling a lopsided game, and thus creating a tension-filled, physical and frustrated environment. I think there's fault on the Georgetown player for shoving the Chinese player after the bump, even though you could argue he had some justification due to the reffing and physical play by the Chinese team, and likely had no idea it would lead to the reaction he got from the Chinese team. I think there's a LOT of fault on the Chinese team for reacting to the shoving match by fighting instead of trying to break it up, and fighting in a very excessive manner, despite being a team of adults playing against college students and being the hosting team in an exhibition game that was supposed to promote good will between the US and China. For all of the talk about national pride, the Chinese team knew that it was representing its country and did so terribly.
I think it's very unfortunate that a lot of people are taking this situation as an excuse to attack or criticize Chinese people as a nationality and/or a race. I'm certain that most Chinese people deplore what the Chinese team did in this situation, and would not have reacted the same way. This was a very particular group of Chinese people, i.e. military people playing a physical sport in a game where national pride was at stake. The potential for some stupid testosterone-induced ugliness to occur was very high. Even if you include the violent fans and biased referees, that group is not indicative of all Chinese people, or even all Chinese people in China.
I pretty much agree with your post except for the parts I bolded. That seemed a lot more like a punch than a shove from the Georgetown player and also, since when are people in college not adults?
They're still very young and naive. There will always be a few exceptions to every rule, but in many cases. -_-
On August 20 2011 05:54 Tyree wrote: Are you kidding me? It is very much 100% clear who started this, the chinese players did not seem interested in any kind of brawl, they simply fought for the ball and began running back to their positions when the GTown player took a swing at the chinese player and they noticed it.
the bayi player body checked the GT player. that's a guaranteed foul, if not a flagrant foul. that kind of contact is not normal in a basketball game. and the ref doesn't do shit about it.
therefore, it's not clear who started the brawl.
it's only clear that the bayi players and staff made it much worse, especially when they decide to chase down players who are clearly running away.
it's also not 57 fouls, it's 57 free throws.
57 fouls would mean that they could only field 2 players.
It's hilarious that Tyree keeps calling Americans biased, when anyone who makes the claim that what they see here is '100% CLEAR AND OBVIOUS!' is clearly biased themselves.
On August 20 2011 06:30 kainzero wrote: the bayi player body checked the GT player. that's a guaranteed foul, if not a flagrant foul. that kind of contact is not normal in a basketball game. and the ref doesn't do shit about it.
If you're referring to the bump when the Georgetown player was trying to pass the ball after recovering it, I think you're exaggerating the contact. I wouldn't call that a body check, what Horry did to Nash in the playoffs that one year was a body check. Also, while that is a clear foul, there's no way that's a flagrant foul, at least not by NBA or college rules. He was going for the ball and/or trying to deflect the pass.
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
How is pointing out what is true racist? The team was all black people...the fact he thinks they're aggressive is his opinion, whether it's right or wrong or even justified, who are we to judge?
It's not racist to not the team are black , although you would have to call into question why someone is noting that. What is racist however is that he attributes traits of aggressiveness with all black people with no reason to believe it. He assumes that the american players instigated the fight not because of any evidence presented to him but merely because their skin is black.
That is why he is called a racist and a bigot.
Well in his personal experience he says the majority of black people he's encountered have been more aggressive. Probably something to do with the fact that they're high school kids, not black though.
can't help but think that the Chinese would be much less willing to engage in a fight had the American team been white.
What makes you say that? From my experience playing Aussies Rules (best sport in the world, just quietly) if there's a fight about to happen I don't give a shit if the player is aboriginal, asian, white or anything else. They're getting a fist to the face regardless haha
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
How is pointing out what is true racist? The team was all black people...the fact he thinks they're aggressive is his opinion, whether it's right or wrong or even justified, who are we to judge?
It's not racist to not the team are black , although you would have to call into question why someone is noting that. What is racist however is that he attributes traits of aggressiveness with all black people with no reason to believe it. He assumes that the american players instigated the fight not because of any evidence presented to him but merely because their skin is black.
That is why he is called a racist and a bigot.
Well in his personal experience he says the majority of black people he's encountered have been more aggressive. Probably something to do with the fact that they're high school kids, not black though.
can't help but think that the Chinese would be much less willing to engage in a fight had the American team been white.
What makes you say that? From my experience playing Aussies Rules (best sport in the world, just quietly) if there's a fight about to happen I don't give a shit if the player is aboriginal, asian, white or anything else. They're getting a fist to the face regardless haha
He's making an assumption of preferential treatment due to race, ie saying that they have a passive look when engaging in white people and a more hostile towards colored. Normally i would be quick to dismiss but when you read news stories like this http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/06/29/china.rent.white.people/index.html you tend to think other wise, it's poor to generalize but either you do generalize in fear of being wrong or you don't but frankly the human mind works by grouping things so grouping people and generalizing is human nature, doesn't mean it's right just means it's understandable
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
How is pointing out what is true racist? The team was all black people...the fact he thinks they're aggressive is his opinion, whether it's right or wrong or even justified, who are we to judge?
It's not racist to not the team are black , although you would have to call into question why someone is noting that. What is racist however is that he attributes traits of aggressiveness with all black people with no reason to believe it. He assumes that the american players instigated the fight not because of any evidence presented to him but merely because their skin is black.
That is why he is called a racist and a bigot.
Well in his personal experience he says the majority of black people he's encountered have been more aggressive. Probably something to do with the fact that they're high school kids, not black though.
can't help but think that the Chinese would be much less willing to engage in a fight had the American team been white.
What makes you say that? From my experience playing Aussies Rules (best sport in the world, just quietly) if there's a fight about to happen I don't give a shit if the player is aboriginal, asian, white or anything else. They're getting a fist to the face regardless haha
He's making an assumption of preferential treatment due to race, ie saying that they have a passive look when engaging in white people and a more hostile towards colored. Normally i would be quick to dismiss but when you read news stories like this http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/06/29/china.rent.white.people/index.html you tend to think other wise, it's poor to generalize but either you do generalize in fear of being wrong or you don't but frankly the human mind works by grouping things so grouping people and generalizing is human nature, doesn't mean it's right just means it's understandable
I highly doubt race played a factor in this. The kids in China who are interested in or play basketball watch NBA games and root for NBA teams and players as much as fans here do.
On August 20 2011 05:54 Tyree wrote: You arent a bad person, your nationality is just clouding your judgement, if someone swung at you like that, you would get pretty pissed and do pretty much the same thing as the chinese players did, anyone would.
Go back and read all the chinese people in this thread saying that the chinese team and refs are in the wrong. Its not a nationality thing
He's not saying it's right. He's saying it's understandable.
It appears that GT started it physically, but Bayi's reaction was excessive. I imagine there must have been some racist trash talk going on, esp from GT to Bayi, to justify it. That's an explanation easier to swallow than "everyone in the stadium just being dicks."
On August 20 2011 05:54 Tyree wrote: You arent a bad person, your nationality is just clouding your judgement, if someone swung at you like that, you would get pretty pissed and do pretty much the same thing as the chinese players did, anyone would.
Go back and read all the chinese people in this thread saying that the chinese team and refs are in the wrong. Its not a nationality thing
He's not saying it's right. He's saying it's understandable.
It appears that GT started it physically, but Bayi's reaction was excessive. I imagine there must have been some racist trash talk going on, esp from GT to Bayi, to justify it. That's an explanation easier to swallow than "everyone in the stadium just being dicks."
Racist trash talk from GT, wtf?
It was probably: "Who the fuck hired these Chinese refs?" at most, which is completely understandable. Trying to rig a game that hard against a college team traveling to your country for a friendly is pathetic, and nothing more.
pffft sports teams fight. i know i've wanted to punch out people on the other team before, it just takes one hothead on your team to actually do it and before you know it you're hitting them too... unlucky coincidence that it was a whole china/us thing
EPT
