I would put this in the Sports section, but those threads seem to be ongoing threads, not news items. Mods feel free to move if needed.
The Georgetown University basketball team had a friendly with a Chinese pro team. It got ugly real fast, and it escalated to a full on brawl. I really can't believe the behavior of the Chinese team, trying to incite a brawl against college kids. They even started to hit players with chairs, and you can see multiple Chinese players ganging up on a Georgetown player. This makes the Barca - Real Madrid tussle look like childs play. Disgusting play by the Chinese team.
BEIJING — What began as a goodwill trip to China for the Georgetown men’s basketball team turned violent Thursday night, when its exhibition game against the Bayi Rockets deteriorated into a melee during which players exchanged blows, chairs were thrown and spectators tossed full water bottles as Hoyas players and coaches headed to the locker room at Olympic Sports Center Stadium.
Georgetown Coach John Thompson III pulled his players off the court with 9 minutes 32 seconds left in the game and the scored tied at 64 after a chaotic scene in which members of both teams began throwing punches and tackling one another.
Georgetown senior center Henry Sims had a chair tossed at him by an unidentified person, and freshman forward Moses Ayegba, who was wearing a brace on his sore right ankle, walked onto the court with a chair in his right hand. According to Georgetown officials, Ayegba had been struck, prompting him to grab a chair in self-defense.
It was the second time both benches emptied in physical game marred by fouls. By halftime, Bayi had 11 fouls while Georgetown had 28.
Immediately before the fighting began, Bayi forward-center Hu Ke was called for a foul against Georgetown’s Jason Clark. The senior guard clearly took exception to the hard foul and said so to Hu, triggering an exchange of shoves.
That’s when players from the Georgetown and Bayi benches ran onto the court, and bedlam ensued.
The picture attached to the article, which will be on the front page of all sports sites.
Edit:
Updated with some Chinese netizen comments:
"Does the Bayi team think they are better at Chinese kungfu than basketball and that is why they are desperate to show it off."– JF1113
"The Bayi team have really lost face now. No matter who is right and who is wrong, you have fought the visiting team as the host ... especially while their second man in charge is in this country." –anoia
"I just don't get it that China is fighting other people all the time. And they lose the games too," –QimaDdou.
“It was really an unfair whistle. They even fought their opponents and really lost face.” –Yaogun Dahuaidan
“If the referee really gave 57 free throws to Bayi, but only 15 to Georgetown, that’s a really f**king bad game, it’s so unfair!” – Manuing
“Why are all Chinese referees like this? Cheating will never gain you respect in a game. Even if we lost the game, we still need to behave in a sportsmanlike manner. It doesn't make sense to win the game like this. –zhlzjhz
“I'm looking at the comments under on Youtube. Certainly, foreigners’ impression of China is “strengthened.” –interlakers
If they wanted to fight, then why not go to America to fight? –Paigu Ayong
Damn thats a wild video.. I wouldn't bias is as blaming the Chinese team though, unless you can really get all facts straight. I'd say disgusting behavior by both really.
This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
On August 19 2011 06:05 renaissanceMAN wrote: america fuck yeah
Lovely response.
Anyways - I'd like to know where the tension came from anyways.. it's odd to me that a professional team would be involved in such a brawl with a college team.
On August 19 2011 06:07 Condor Hero wrote: This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
This is not biased, there were people at the game who were commenting the Chinese team was pretty much hacking Georgetown every possession. Also, you can see the free throw disparity, overwhelmingly in favor of the Chinese team. How can that be possible in a competitive game? Duke played another Chinese team earlier, same issue with the foul disparity, it's just Duke is not the type of team that would retaliate with hard contact. So when Georgetown also started playing rough, that's when the fight broke out.
On August 19 2011 06:07 Condor Hero wrote: This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
Wow that was lucky, look guys we actually have an eye witness here on teamliquid. + Show Spoiler +
How can you blame the Chinese players, OP? You weren't even there. According to the article the Chinese team took 4 times as many free throws which means either the refs were crooked or the Georgetown players were the ones playing rough
On August 19 2011 06:11 BlackJack wrote: How can you blame the Chinese players, OP? You weren't even there. According to the article the Chinese team took 4 times as many free throws which means either the refs were crooked or the Georgetown players were the ones playing rough
Albeit I'm chinese myself, I would not hesitate to say the bolded part is probably true
to me it just seemed that one heated argument turned into a fight (cant say who started the fight.... or threw the first punch) and then it was just backing each others player up....
On August 19 2011 06:07 Condor Hero wrote: This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
This is not biased, there were people at the game who were commenting the Chinese team was pretty much hacking Georgetown every possession. Also, you can see the free throw disparity, overwhelmingly in favor of the Chinese team. How can that be possible in a competitive game? Duke played another Chinese team earlier, same issue with the foul disparity, it's just Duke is not the type of team that would retaliate with hard contact. So when Georgetown also started playing rough, that's when the fight broke out.
I can't determine what point you're trying to make about the free throw disparity. The chinese team is the one that took 57 free throws which means they were the ones getting fouled a ton.
Oh wow, against a Big East team. I always enjoy it when Georgetown comes to play at my university (USF), they don't seem like bad people. Kinda sad to see Pros beat up on a college kid like that. I dunno if it can be attributed to shit talking since most Chinese can't really speak English very well. But I may be incorrect in that statement. Nevertheless, it was a sad video to see.
Also want to say...Those fans in the crowd should be ashamed of themselves. Along with the security that was there.
On August 19 2011 06:07 Condor Hero wrote: This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
This is not biased, there were people at the game who were commenting the Chinese team was pretty much hacking Georgetown every possession. Also, you can see the free throw disparity, overwhelmingly in favor of the Chinese team. How can that be possible in a competitive game? Duke played another Chinese team earlier, same issue with the foul disparity, it's just Duke is not the type of team that would retaliate with hard contact. So when Georgetown also started playing rough, that's when the fight broke out.
Do those people happen to be American? Not saying they're lying but it's easy to be biased especially when nationality is involved.
Also you're talking about the game. I'm talking about the fight, you obviously place the blame squarely on the Chinese team. From that video, how can you even tell who started the fight? Even if the game is rough, that's no excuse to start a fight.
Free throws is certainly correlation with bias in referees but it's not proof. I have a hard time believing that the Chinese team would agree to host American college teams just to shit on it.
In my mind a far more likely scenario would be that the game got rough (possibly caused by some cultural differences) then the public and second hand viewers gets inflamed by the accounts of the first hand viewers/commentators (who are very possibly biased). Both teams are wrong and since it's in China obviously you see more Chinese people acting like idiots (think Pacers/Pistons brawl).
But seriously that's BS, 57 FTs to 15? You've gotta be joking me. I don't really know if you can call the OP biased; if you look at the video the Chinese players run off the bench and basically maul one player, and then chase another one to the sidelines and start beating on him. That's just thuggish and doesn't belong in the sport. Can't imagine any colleges are going to want to go play there in the future after this shit.
On August 19 2011 06:07 Condor Hero wrote: This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
Wow that was lucky, look guys we actually have an eye witness here on teamliquid. + Show Spoiler +
you can't be serious right?
What the fuck. He posted a video, I watched said video and stated my opinion.
Georgetown is my favorite college team, and it kind of sucks to see something like this happen, because even if it was their fault or not.. I'm sure that the NCAA will step in and penalize them. I heard the free throw difference, and that's almost unbelievable, so they must have got frustrated after being unfairly reffed during the game. I can't jump to any conclusions, though, because I don't know the full situation.
On August 19 2011 06:07 Condor Hero wrote: This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
This is not biased, there were people at the game who were commenting the Chinese team was pretty much hacking Georgetown every possession. Also, you can see the free throw disparity, overwhelmingly in favor of the Chinese team. How can that be possible in a competitive game? Duke played another Chinese team earlier, same issue with the foul disparity, it's just Duke is not the type of team that would retaliate with hard contact. So when Georgetown also started playing rough, that's when the fight broke out.
I can't determine what point you're trying to make about the free throw disparity. The chinese team is the one that took 57 free throws which means they were the ones getting fouled a ton.
Have you ever seen college sports? Very rarely, if ever, do teams have full on brawls. It was definitely instigated by the Chinese team. For some reason the Chinese basketball has a history of fighting on the court, see China vs Brazil.
57 foul shots vs 15 foul shots is pretty rare. I am guessing that the refs were using special tactics to keep the game competitive as a communist nation usually places great importance on these kind of competitions between nations and are also known for corruption. This would not be the first time a ref ruined a game. Could have been told to do it or could have been the ref's own national pride but that is very one sided foul shooting. Personally, from the foul count and having played lots of refereed sports, when a team feels like they are getting taken advantage of by the refs, they tend to take things into their own hands. I would put my money on the fact that both sides were trying to have a good game and were most likely matching each others' intensity. When a team feels they are getting called for things that the other side is getting away with they tend to go on tilt. When you are playing a sport that already has physical contact, it is easy for the rage to turn to a fight. In esports, there is separation so we only get things like "fuck off" or a no-gg rage quit. Something like this does not change my opinion of any of the players or teams they represent. Fights happen in sports, look at hockey where they are practically celebrated. It isn't something any sport should or probably is proud of but it happens when you have humans competing and giving their all.
On August 19 2011 06:16 S.O.L.I.D. wrote: YEAH AMERICA GET EM
But seriously that's BS, 57 FTs to 15? You've gotta be joking me. I don't really know if you can call the OP biased; if you look at the video the Chinese players run off the bench and basically maul one player, and then chase another one to the sidelines and start beating on him. That's just thuggish and doesn't belong in the sport. Can't imagine any colleges are going to want to go play there in the future after this shit.
If this was between two NBA teams, the first thing I think of is not "holy shit, refs are being bought" I would think "holy shit one team played really rough and got a lot of fouls called..." but I guess once it's another country involved, American pride overtakes common sense right?
On August 19 2011 06:11 BlackJack wrote: How can you blame the Chinese players, OP? You weren't even there. According to the article the Chinese team took 4 times as many free throws which means either the refs were crooked or the Georgetown players were the ones playing rough
There's no way a 40 free throw disparity can exist without at least some bias on the part of referees. Especially between two teams that have never played, while one is from another country. Usually 20 free throws is considering a huge different, 40 is pretty much impossible.
Pretty bad representation of the Chinese team. Whether it was a hard fought game or not, one hard foul should not lead to three players and a trainer going after (kicking) a player who is on the ground.
Something weird happens with the American and one of the Chinese players at 0:05 seconds. They make contact mid air and then the Chinese player turns around and they start fighting.
On August 19 2011 06:07 Condor Hero wrote: This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
This is not biased, there were people at the game who were commenting the Chinese team was pretty much hacking Georgetown every possession. Also, you can see the free throw disparity, overwhelmingly in favor of the Chinese team. How can that be possible in a competitive game? Duke played another Chinese team earlier, same issue with the foul disparity, it's just Duke is not the type of team that would retaliate with hard contact. So when Georgetown also started playing rough, that's when the fight broke out.
I can't determine what point you're trying to make about the free throw disparity. The chinese team is the one that took 57 free throws which means they were the ones getting fouled a ton.
edit: misread
Or the ref is being a piece of shit, and if the ref is being a dick might as well actually start earning those fowls instead of getting called on fowls that you didn't actually do.
On August 19 2011 06:07 Condor Hero wrote: This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
This is not biased, there were people at the game who were commenting the Chinese team was pretty much hacking Georgetown every possession. Also, you can see the free throw disparity, overwhelmingly in favor of the Chinese team. How can that be possible in a competitive game? Duke played another Chinese team earlier, same issue with the foul disparity, it's just Duke is not the type of team that would retaliate with hard contact. So when Georgetown also started playing rough, that's when the fight broke out.
Do those people happen to be American? Not saying they're lying but it's easy to be biased especially when nationality is involved.
Also you're talking about the game. I'm talking about the fight, you obviously place the blame squarely on the Chinese team. From that video, how can you even tell who started the fight? Even if the game is rough, that's no excuse to start a fight.
Free throws is certainly correlation with bias in referees but it's not proof. I have a hard time believing that the Chinese team would agree to host American college teams just to shit on it.
In my mind a far more likely scenario would be that the game got rough (possibly caused by some cultural differences) then the public and second hand viewers gets inflamed by the accounts of the first hand viewers/commentators (who are very possibly biased). Both teams are wrong and since it's in China obviously you see more Chinese people acting like idiots (think Pacers/Pistons brawl).
Are you serious!?!!?!? I would agree perhaps put some blame also on Georgetown...But NOTHING can be said that has chairs being hit at another person as acceptable retaliation. And a few Chinese Pros ganging up on one college kid? That's just inexcusable. I don't see how you can even say it's American bias.
On August 19 2011 06:07 Condor Hero wrote: This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
This is not biased, there were people at the game who were commenting the Chinese team was pretty much hacking Georgetown every possession. Also, you can see the free throw disparity, overwhelmingly in favor of the Chinese team. How can that be possible in a competitive game? Duke played another Chinese team earlier, same issue with the foul disparity, it's just Duke is not the type of team that would retaliate with hard contact. So when Georgetown also started playing rough, that's when the fight broke out.
Do those people happen to be American? Not saying they're lying but it's easy to be biased especially when nationality is involved.
Also you're talking about the game. I'm talking about the fight, you obviously place the blame squarely on the Chinese team. From that video, how can you even tell who started the fight? Even if the game is rough, that's no excuse to start a fight.
Free throws is certainly correlation with bias in referees but it's not proof. I have a hard time believing that the Chinese team would agree to host American college teams just to shit on it.
In my mind a far more likely scenario would be that the game got rough (possibly caused by some cultural differences) then the public and second hand viewers gets inflamed by the accounts of the first hand viewers/commentators (who are very possibly biased). Both teams are wrong and since it's in China obviously you see more Chinese people acting like idiots (think Pacers/Pistons brawl).
It's more likely that the Chinese team is to blame because they have home court. That a foreign team would start a fight when they're invited to another country is extremely unlikely.
And to the argument of perhaps Georgetown was playing dirty to to all the fouls they received. No. I follow Big East teams closely, they are not a cheap hitting team. I know some of you are trying to look at it so that things can be explained away by circumstance. But I'm calling referee bias here in terms of the foul differential.
On August 19 2011 06:07 Condor Hero wrote: This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
This is not biased, there were people at the game who were commenting the Chinese team was pretty much hacking Georgetown every possession. Also, you can see the free throw disparity, overwhelmingly in favor of the Chinese team. How can that be possible in a competitive game? Duke played another Chinese team earlier, same issue with the foul disparity, it's just Duke is not the type of team that would retaliate with hard contact. So when Georgetown also started playing rough, that's when the fight broke out.
Do those people happen to be American? Not saying they're lying but it's easy to be biased especially when nationality is involved.
Also you're talking about the game. I'm talking about the fight, you obviously place the blame squarely on the Chinese team. From that video, how can you even tell who started the fight? Even if the game is rough, that's no excuse to start a fight.
Free throws is certainly correlation with bias in referees but it's not proof. I have a hard time believing that the Chinese team would agree to host American college teams just to shit on it.
In my mind a far more likely scenario would be that the game got rough (possibly caused by some cultural differences) then the public and second hand viewers gets inflamed by the accounts of the first hand viewers/commentators (who are very possibly biased). Both teams are wrong and since it's in China obviously you see more Chinese people acting like idiots (think Pacers/Pistons brawl).
It's more likely that the Chinese team is to blame because they have home court. That a foreign team would start a fight when they're invited to another country is extremely unlikely.
Agreed, both teams shouldn't have descending to brawling and the Chinese team deserves a ton of flak for getting into a fight where they have obvious numbers but the video OP provided is inconclusive of who's to blame and does not justify the obvious bias he has.
On August 19 2011 06:15 Sipher wrote: Oh wow, against a Big East team. I always enjoy it when Georgetown comes to play at my university (USF), they don't seem like bad people. Kinda sad to see Pros beat up on a college kid like that. I dunno if it can be attributed to shit talking since most Chinese can't really speak English very well. But I may be incorrect in that statement. Nevertheless, it was a sad video to see.
Also want to say...Those fans in the crowd should be ashamed of themselves. Along with the security that was there.
those fans, its just the chinese culture lol... chinese loves dramas ^^ if u have seen random chinese citizens fighting on the street with tons of ppl watching, then u wont be surprised, lawl
On August 19 2011 06:11 BlackJack wrote: How can you blame the Chinese players, OP? You weren't even there. According to the article the Chinese team took 4 times as many free throws which means either the refs were crooked or the Georgetown players were the ones playing rough
There's no way a 40 free throw disparity can exist without at least some bias on the part of referees. Especially between two teams that have never played, while one is from another country. Usually 20 free throws is considering a huge different, 40 is pretty much impossible.
Yeah, I agree with that. The refs were most likely biased which has a tendency to cause a lot of frustration in the team they are biased against, which can help to get things escalated.
Yeah I like the people claiming American bias. You can watch and see in the first 10 seconds that a player on the chinese team threw the first punch, and then their bench swarmed one Georgetown player. I can say this having played basketball in high school, it's way more physical actually playing it than it looks and like in any sport emotions can get out of control. During a church league game I nearly started throwing punches too. Still, no excuse for grabbing chairs, and also wtf at the fans? Throwing things is so stupid when you are not involved in the game at all except as a spectator. No excuse for the fans.
Given the competitiveness of american basketball, I wouldn't be surprised if Georgetown played more physical than the Chinese team was used to - and the Chinese team got frustrated and reacted poorly.
Pure speculation though, I couldn't tell wtf happened in the video.
Forget sides and which team is "at fault" the referees who officiate any games that comes to a point where it gets so out of control should be ashamed of themselves.
I remember watching CBA games during my visits to China, Chinese teams really like their free throws. It seemed like most of the time spent watching games were spent watching free throws. So the disparity certainly makes sense,
Mex Carey, Georgetown's sports information director, told ESPN.com that the game was "very physical," with 57 free throws taken by Bayi to just 15 for Georgetown, and quickly spun out of control.
According to the Washington Post, coach John Thompson III pulled his team off the court with the score tied at 64 midway through the fourth quarter
57 free throws, 64 points in 4th quarter. sounds like the chinese aren't very good free throw shooters!
That's fucking disgusting. I'm Chinese, and I think that these people need to learn how to be good hosts. Can't tell who was to blame for starting the fight, but no matter what, as hosts you should be more gracious. Even if the other team is shitting on you or playing rough, you just gotta take it in your stride. It's a fucking friendly, who cares if you win or lose. Wankers all of them.
That said, it's had to believe that some US posters are truly unbiased when they say things like "it was definitely instigated by the Chinese team." Were you there? People fight all the time. Let's not make this into a race/nationality thing.
So basically the background is that Georgetown was getting their asses handed to them, and they started getting real rough, and then that Chinese team retaliated? Was it worth making a China bashing thread over it? I think either team for being idiots is unacceptable, but making a thread for the purpose of expressing xenophobia is pretty lame.
That said, the video hardly shows much, so I don't understand the bias of the OP.
Written by Gene Wang from the Washington Post who I understand was actually at the game.
Oh yeah, and the photo that will accompany this story for every paper in the world:
While the events don't necessarily look great for the US/Georgetown, this is an absolute disgrace for China. Especially considering the brawl that occurred last year (China v Brazil brawl video linked earlier by another poster). What exactly are the refs doing putting the game in that position and then wtf is security doing standing around while a brawl is occurring. I dont know if that guy in the picture works for the team but he certainly doesn't appear to be a player who might have been caught up in the heat of the moment. Not to mention the fact Chinese players were using chairs as weapons.
Mex Carey, Georgetown's sports information director, told ESPN.com that the game was "very physical," with 57 free throws taken by Bayi to just 15 for Georgetown, and quickly spun out of control.
According to the Washington Post, coach John Thompson III pulled his team off the court with the score tied at 64 midway through the fourth quarter
57 free throws, 64 points in 4th quarter. sounds like the chinese aren't very good free throw shooters!
more sounds like they aren't very good players, 49 extra free throws and the game is tied at 64 points each in the 4th + Show Spoiler +
can't wait for someone in the media to call it racism XD
This happens all the time lolol. Watch china vs brazil in 2010. That was baaaaad. chinese players just have no manners. Even my chinese friends call chinese atheletes thuggy.
The refferee was bribed or some dick who wanted to make his country win.
Playing rough doesn't land you a 40 foul difference. I wish i could come up with a comparison to show just how massive and utterly insane that difference is. There is only one way to get that kind of a difference, to play a Chinese team and get a ref that takes the game into his own hands.
That said, if you look at the video:
1) The Chinese players throws the first punch 2) The Chinese team rushes onto the court and gangs up on one kid
I know people on TL tend to hate the US and love everything Asian but i do hope people can atleast be so unbiased that when looking at video evidence, they can be honest about what's happening.
I watched the other NCAA team in China this morning: Duke vs. the Chinese Jr. national team. If officiating was as bad in the GT game as it was in the Duke game (and the box score suggests it was worse), then I can see how tempers would flair, easily.
The Big East is a rough conference, and Georgetown is a physical team that will occasionally border on something worse. This was essentially the perfect combination, with a rough American team vs. a rough army team.
I'm glad nobody got hurt, but am way more amused by this incident than surprised.
edit: the incidents started before the video does, you can't take the first moments of the video as the start of the incident.
From my understanding. How Chinese players and American players play basketball is very different. A friend of mine who plays basketball who is also Chinese wrote a blog on this. He talked about how the Chinese players basically took turns with the ball. Very often, they would play 1v1. One person would attack and the other defend. Same as in America for 1v1. However, if the offensive player missed a shot, he would not even try to rebound! They would simply let the defender pick it up, bring it back court and switch sides.
I'm not saying that there wasn't bias on the ref's part (there probably was), but I also bet that the American team was playing a different game than the Chinese were used to. This may have lead to frustration, because what is possibly normally considered "dirty" playing by the Chinese is totally normal for Americans.
On August 19 2011 06:16 S.O.L.I.D. wrote: YEAH AMERICA GET EM
But seriously that's BS, 57 FTs to 15? You've gotta be joking me. I don't really know if you can call the OP biased; if you look at the video the Chinese players run off the bench and basically maul one player, and then chase another one to the sidelines and start beating on him. That's just thuggish and doesn't belong in the sport. Can't imagine any colleges are going to want to go play there in the future after this shit.
If this was between two NBA teams, the first thing I think of is not "holy shit, refs are being bought" I would think "holy shit one team played really rough and got a lot of fouls called..." but I guess once it's another country involved, American pride overtakes common sense right?
This would happen to any country, not just America. Don't try and make it sound like it's all "America's" fault. Sometimes you get terrible refs, and none of us have seen the game so none of us can comment on what specifically happen, but 54 free throws to 15 is pretty fucking ridiculous, but I've take it you've probably never watched/played basketball.
On August 19 2011 06:16 S.O.L.I.D. wrote: YEAH AMERICA GET EM
But seriously that's BS, 57 FTs to 15? You've gotta be joking me. I don't really know if you can call the OP biased; if you look at the video the Chinese players run off the bench and basically maul one player, and then chase another one to the sidelines and start beating on him. That's just thuggish and doesn't belong in the sport. Can't imagine any colleges are going to want to go play there in the future after this shit.
If this was between two NBA teams, the first thing I think of is not "holy shit, refs are being bought" I would think "holy shit one team played really rough and got a lot of fouls called..." but I guess once it's another country involved, American pride overtakes common sense right?
If one team had 57 fouls in a game I'd be wondering what the fuck happened since that would foul out pretty much everyone. To put it a different way, this would be like one team getting 8 red cards in a match.
Looking at the video, it seemed really violent...I couldn't tell too well of course, but there were numerous separate incidents within the vid of some of the Chinese players/bench/fans(?) literally chasing down some of the American players and beating them up...at least no one got hurt.
On August 19 2011 06:46 Wren wrote: I watched the other NCAA team in China this morning: Duke vs. the Chinese Jr. national team. If officiating was as bad in the GT game as it was in the Duke game (and the box score suggests it was worse), then I can see how tempers would flair, easily.
The Big East is a rough conference, and Georgetown is a physical team that will occasionally border on something worse. This was essentially the perfect combination, with a rough American team vs. a rough army team.
I'm glad nobody got hurt, but am way more amused by this incident than surprised.
edit: the incidents started before the video does, you can't take the first moments of the video as the start of the incident.
Even if Georgetown was a valid instigator throwing a punch is crossing a line, then the whole team getting up to fight not break up the fight is another line being crossed. As a principle said to me in the 2nd grade herp. Although the bible did teach me Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. ofc i only did read the first half
Apparently from what I've read this specific Chinese team has a past with brawls. It's kind of sad that this stuff happens. You can clearly tell the Chinese are going a lot more crazy than geortgetown. Oh well, I work at a Chinese restaurant and they are siding with georgetown
On August 19 2011 06:16 S.O.L.I.D. wrote: YEAH AMERICA GET EM
But seriously that's BS, 57 FTs to 15? You've gotta be joking me. I don't really know if you can call the OP biased; if you look at the video the Chinese players run off the bench and basically maul one player, and then chase another one to the sidelines and start beating on him. That's just thuggish and doesn't belong in the sport. Can't imagine any colleges are going to want to go play there in the future after this shit.
If this was between two NBA teams, the first thing I think of is not "holy shit, refs are being bought" I would think "holy shit one team played really rough and got a lot of fouls called..." but I guess once it's another country involved, American pride overtakes common sense right?
This would happen to any country, not just America. Don't try and make it sound like it's all "America's" fault. Sometimes you get terrible refs, and none of us have seen the game so none of us can comment on what specifically happen, but 54 free throws to 15 is pretty fucking ridiculous, but I've take it you've probably never watched/played basketball.
I've watched/played basketball since before Michael's second retirement. All I said was that free throws (which hints at foul play but doesn't proof anything) is insufficient evidence to justify OP's obviously huge bias.
Wow. The free throw disparity really ticks me off. I used to play basketball quite a lot but had to stop cus of a broken foot but bought/bias refs are the worst. And i feel bad for these Georgetown players who came down to China to play a friendly and have this happen. The refs are the ones to blame in this one. That link to the hoya's forum said that they were being called for intentional fouls everytime they went down the court? That is bs, and that ref should be embarrassed.
On August 19 2011 06:50 [Agony]x90 wrote: From my understanding. How Chinese players and American players play basketball is very different. A friend of mine who plays basketball who is also Chinese wrote a blog on this. He talked about how the Chinese players basically took turns with the ball. Very often, they would play 1v1. One person would attack and the other defend. Same as in America for 1v1. However, if the offensive player missed a shot, he would not even try to rebound! They would simply let the defender pick it up, bring it back court and switch sides.
I'm not saying that there wasn't bias on the ref's part (there probably was), but I also bet that the American team was playing a different game than the Chinese were used to. This may have lead to frustration, because what is possibly normally considered "dirty" playing by the Chinese is totally normal for Americans.
I feel like the Chinese would know about American play style. The NBA is popular in China. You'd think someone on their side would know what to expect from the Americans. Oh well, life goes on.
So I watched Duke play a different Chinese team and the officials are REALLY biased. They called a ton of fouls on Duke and hardly any on China. I think there were fewer fouls called against the Chinese team than any college team that has played Duke in 30 years. Either the Chinese are the most mild mannered non foulers in history or there is a huge bias. I am calling huge bias. Having not actually watched the Georgetown game I am still fairly confident that the refs were biased and that is why so many fouls were called on Georgetown.
I am unaware of any division I brawl this serious in almost 40 years. You would probably have to go back to Dave Winfield's Minnesota team. This is almost surely caused by the Chinese.
On August 19 2011 06:50 [Agony]x90 wrote: From my understanding. How Chinese players and American players play basketball is very different. A friend of mine who plays basketball who is also Chinese wrote a blog on this. He talked about how the Chinese players basically took turns with the ball. Very often, they would play 1v1. One person would attack and the other defend. Same as in America for 1v1. However, if the offensive player missed a shot, he would not even try to rebound! They would simply let the defender pick it up, bring it back court and switch sides.
I'm not saying that there wasn't bias on the ref's part (there probably was), but I also bet that the American team was playing a different game than the Chinese were used to. This may have lead to frustration, because what is possibly normally considered "dirty" playing by the Chinese is totally normal for Americans.
I feel like the Chinese would know about American play style. The NBA is popular in China. You'd think someone on their side would know what to expect from the Americans. Oh well, life goes on.
I feel like that style of 1on1 is just players being to lazy to rebound the ball.
On August 19 2011 06:07 Pufftrees wrote: Damn thats a wild video.. I wouldn't bias is as blaming the Chinese team though, unless you can really get all facts straight. I'd say disgusting behavior by both really.
Uh what? Its right in the OP, clear as day an article about what happened before and after the fight. Whats with so much Chinese apologists lately? China or a Chinese person does something wrong, and were hailed under a ARE YOU CERTAIN? SINOPHOBIA!!!!! Even when yes, we are utterly certain.
Wtf. Did I just see a Chinese player pick up a chair and try to use it as a weapon. Wtf.
That guy should never be allowed to play again. What is wrong with him. From the video it looked like the Chinese team was more at fault. Maybe the Georgetown guy was really rough and aggressive and pushing and shoving, but you can't just start attacking people. That Georgetown guy even looked like he was trying to run away.
I would understand a push or shove, but definitely not kicking people on the ground gangster style. That is just so bad.
Imagine if you were a professional team playing against an amateur college team, yet despite that fact you were being slightly outmatched. It would piss you off a lot. Imagine if you're a chinese nationalist who loves basketball and you have to watch one of your favourite professional teams lose to a bunch of school kids. It would piss you off, wouldn't it? I'm aware that we don't have all the facts but the circumstantial evidence overwhemingly points to a couple of things here: (the refereeing was crooked) (the Chinese team acted more thuggishly in the fight) (the Chinese fans acted like hooligans as well)
Ps I am not racist I am half chinese in heritage, but I think this one is pretty clear to call. Personally I hate the "America fuck yeah" mentality, but siding with the Americans in this particular scenario is clear as day. I personally think you have to be the one who is biased as f*** to say that both sides are EQUALLY to blame, when its clear who the guilty party is if you have a lick of sense
On August 19 2011 07:10 Mzimzim wrote: so who ended up winning?
Game ended tied 64-64. It was 64-62 (Georgetown lead) before the fight and the Chinese team shoot and made 2 free throws (from the foul call before the brawl) after the Georgetown coach pulled his team off the floor and went to the locker room. Though that is completely off topic.
57-15 disparity on free throws? Guess we know how the 2006 NBA Finals refs are getting by during the lockout. What's the Chinese name of Bennett Salvatore?
The worst part for me is the bench getting involved. The coaching/training staff normally acts as peacekeepers who separate the brawling players.
Well, from the video alone we can clearly see that the Chinese players started it, from the video alone we can also see that the only ones seen throwing/swinging chairs were the Chinese players, the only ones that I saw stomping on people were the Chinese players.
That free throw disparity isn't even close to normal. I'd dare anyone to link me of a single game in the history of basketball that had a free throw disparity that large where the general consensus is that the referees did a good job. You wont find one.
Not saying G.Town is without fault and I could really care less about College Basketball at this point so I'm not really all that biased.
Edit: Also, with China removing the articles posted online we can only assume they weren't agreeable with the Chinese government meaning they probably said negative things about the referees or the Chinese players. That is of course conjecture, but hey, just something to think about.
On August 19 2011 07:17 andrewlt wrote: 57-15 disparity on free throws? Guess we know how the 2006 NBA Finals refs are getting by during the lockout. What's the Chinese name of Bennett Salvatore?
The worst part for me is the bench getting involved. The coaching/training staff normally acts as peacekeepers who separate the brawling players.
That's the biggest thing for me.
You pretty much NEVER seen that in American basketball, college or pro, because everyone knows they'll be suspended for a crap ton of games if they do that. See: The Malice at the Palace.
This stuff happens, I played soccer for like 8 years and some games we got in a fight. But it wasn´t because we wanted to start it, but a lot of times they were hitting our 10 player ( meaning the number 10 which is usually a pretty good player) so one thing lead to another, and even the coaches started fighting and dads too.
Regretable moments, this conduct should not be accepted and teams should be punished for their conduct ASAP.
This reminds me a lot of the "Punch-up in Piestany" brawl between Canada and the USSR in 1987. Very similar standoff in terms of un-heard-of violence and underlying political themes involved between the two nations playing.
they know its basketball right? People shit on hockey for all its fights, but hockey players stop when the ref steps in. These people acted like animals.
EDIT: WOW. I posted this seconds after the above post. Disregard this, i feel ridiculous lol
I am Chinese and I can just about guarantee that the refs were extremely biased towards the Chinese, which probably allowed them to get away with rougher play, which built up anger from GTown until the fight broke out.
This is in fact, not surprising at all. My parents are extremely distrusting people because they were born and raised in China. Our people tend to try to get ahead in every way possible, through every means possible, due to a large amount of pride.
Really sorry for what happened to the college kids.
I am an American F*&K yeah guy, but it may be too early to tell what happened. I do not watch basketball, so my opinion is largely based on a segment of some tv show (60 Min?)talking about foreign basketball players (Europe) and their style of play. According to what I saw -which was several years ago- European coaches/players had little respect for American players. They felt that they played ball like they would at some backyard tournament. They felt the Americans fouled all the time and had basically could not/would not attempt to master the "basics". They felt American players fouled, and "walked" all the time, and couldn't adjust their game. They basically fouled out.
They mentioned some "famous" American college player who came over and couldn't stay in the game because he fouled out. They talked about how they spend hours drilling players on the basics like free throws, something Americans were not as good at. They mentioned that many of the top players being drafted were Europeans. Don't know if that was the problem, or the ChiComs didn't like how the game was going. Lets see.
On August 19 2011 07:32 ChicoLopez wrote: I am an American F*&K yeah guy, but it may be too early to tell what happened. I do not watch basketball, so my opinion is largely based on a segment of some tv show (60 Min?)talking about foreign basketball players (Europe) and their style of play. According to what I saw -which was several years ago- European coaches/players had little respect for American players. They felt that they played ball like they would at some backyard tournament. They felt the Americans fouled all the time and had basically could not/would not attempt to master the "basics". They felt American players fouled, and "walked" all the time, and couldn't adjust their game. They basically fouled out.
They mentioned some "famous" American college player who came over and couldn't stay in the game because he fouled out. They talked about how they spend hours drilling players on the basics like free throws, something Americans were not as good at. They mentioned that many of the top players being drafted were Europeans. Don't know if that was the problem, or the ChiComs didn't like how the game was going. Lets see.
How dare americans play basketball the way they want to play basketball i mean who do they think they are inventors of the game? I mean come on even so it's not like american colleges moved basketball forward into the game it is today with fade away shoots and shit like dunking. Not like America has been top placers in Olympic and world championships year after year.
All I could tell from that vid was the american players didnt get much chance to defend their teammate as the chinese swarmed. Really hard to tell though.
Hopefully both sides get the correct amount of disipline. According to what I have read/seen, the chinese players were very agressive and wanted to hurt the american's via chairs, while the americans were defending themselves, but that may be a biased opinion so ill refrain from saying anything too extreme.
On August 19 2011 07:32 ChicoLopez wrote: I am an American F*&K yeah guy, but it may be too early to tell what happened. I do not watch basketball, so my opinion is largely based on a segment of some tv show (60 Min?)talking about foreign basketball players (Europe) and their style of play. According to what I saw -which was several years ago- European coaches/players had little respect for American players. They felt that they played ball like they would at some backyard tournament. They felt the Americans fouled all the time and had basically could not/would not attempt to master the "basics". They felt American players fouled, and "walked" all the time, and couldn't adjust their game. They basically fouled out.
They mentioned some "famous" American college player who came over and couldn't stay in the game because he fouled out. They talked about how they spend hours drilling players on the basics like free throws, something Americans were not as good at. They mentioned that many of the top players being drafted were Europeans. Don't know if that was the problem, or the ChiComs didn't like how the game was going. Lets see.
So, because something on T.V. once said American players don't master the fundamentals (which is very highly debatable, if not flat out wrong), it's OK for a professional Chinese team to say, "**** this, grab some chairs!"
It seems like one of the chinese players was called for a foul, the american player showed his displeasure by taking a swing (which the chinese player dodged), and the nearby chinese players ganged up on the american player in question. While I get that tensions were already frayed by the fact that the refs seem to have been favouring the home team, it was wrong for that GU player to take matter into his own hands. That still doesn't excuse the chinese team's reaction, though you can understand their rage at seeing one of their own under attack. I think the blame lies equally on both parties.
From all the shows i've seen so far on ESPN today talking about it (obviously US shows so bias probably) the Chinese team had been playing dirty the whole game and showed they weren't to excited to play them, which basically caused more tension. Then you always have to think about the political relationship between China and the US, probably didn't help the situation any.
Don't really know who's to blame. College teams can get pretty riled up but that picture says 1000 words about the Chinese players.
On August 19 2011 07:32 ChicoLopez wrote: I am an American F*&K yeah guy, but it may be too early to tell what happened. I do not watch basketball, so my opinion is largely based on a segment of some tv show (60 Min?)talking about foreign basketball players (Europe) and their style of play. According to what I saw -which was several years ago- European coaches/players had little respect for American players. They felt that they played ball like they would at some backyard tournament. They felt the Americans fouled all the time and had basically could not/would not attempt to master the "basics". They felt American players fouled, and "walked" all the time, and couldn't adjust their game. They basically fouled out.
They mentioned some "famous" American college player who came over and couldn't stay in the game because he fouled out. They talked about how they spend hours drilling players on the basics like free throws, something Americans were not as good at. They mentioned that many of the top players being drafted were Europeans. Don't know if that was the problem, or the ChiComs didn't like how the game was going. Lets see.
How dare americans play basketball the way they want to play basketball i mean who do they think they are inventors of the game? I mean come on even so it's not like american colleges moved basketball forward into the game it is today with fade away shoots and shit like dunking. Not like America has been top placers in Olympic and world championships year after year.
i invented this game so heres the rules for everyone else while i do what i want, is what you're saying here
G.Town player is definitely the first one to throw a, "legitimate swing" there. Of course he had gotten fouled and it wasn't called, after hearing of the free throw discrepancy his frustration is understandable, not saying it makes everything alright but he didn't connect with the swing and it's clear that from there the Chinese players just went out of control, especially when they started using chairs as a weapon.
Without seeing the full game from every angle imaginable it's not really clear who threw the "real" first blow either.
This just isn't enough to tell what really happened. Its probably just that the Chinese players knew exactly how far body contact could go before getting called foul by an Chinese ref, and the American players probably didn't know how far they can go. Certain body contact or pushing might have been fine in the US but maybe isn't fine in China.
On August 19 2011 07:32 ChicoLopez wrote: I am an American F*&K yeah guy, but it may be too early to tell what happened. I do not watch basketball, so my opinion is largely based on a segment of some tv show (60 Min?)talking about foreign basketball players (Europe) and their style of play. According to what I saw -which was several years ago- European coaches/players had little respect for American players. They felt that they played ball like they would at some backyard tournament. They felt the Americans fouled all the time and had basically could not/would not attempt to master the "basics". They felt American players fouled, and "walked" all the time, and couldn't adjust their game. They basically fouled out.
They mentioned some "famous" American college player who came over and couldn't stay in the game because he fouled out. They talked about how they spend hours drilling players on the basics like free throws, something Americans were not as good at. They mentioned that many of the top players being drafted were Europeans. Don't know if that was the problem, or the ChiComs didn't like how the game was going. Lets see.
How dare americans play basketball the way they want to play basketball i mean who do they think they are inventors of the game? I mean come on even so it's not like american colleges moved basketball forward into the game it is today with fade away shoots and shit like dunking. Not like America has been top placers in Olympic and world championships year after year.
On August 19 2011 07:42 Telcontar wrote: It seems like one of the chinese players was called for a foul, the american player showed his displeasure by taking a swing (which the chinese player dodged), and the nearby chinese players ganged up on the american player in question. While I get that tensions were already frayed by the fact that the refs seem to have been favouring the home team, it was wrong for that GU player to take matter into his own hands.
have you seen that foul? he gives him a knee to the body. that gets you ejected, suspended, and fined in the nba. you simply don't see those fouls at any level in basketball. you know what happens here? nothing is called.
then when you get fouled like that, you shove that person off of you and say what the fuck. someone just jumped on you. what do you want to do, fall down? it's a natural reaction to shove back when someone jumps on you.
chinese player shoves him. that's ok, tempers are hot, you see it all the time in the nba with double techs. but then the other chinese player corners him, that's dangerous and that's where it gets dicey and the GT player wants to run away but the other players are trying to corner him. multiple GT players want to run away to get the fuck out of there, and the chinese team is mobbing them and trying to hit them with chairs.
you tell me what's wrong.
on top of that it's a fucking college team. you have a pro chinese team with adults beating on kids? fuck that, man. that's fucking shameful.
On August 19 2011 07:29 Destro wrote: they know its basketball right? People shit on hockey for all its fights, but hockey players stop when the ref steps in. These people acted like animals.
EDIT: WOW. I posted this seconds after the above post. Disregard this, i feel ridiculous lol
To be fair, the Referees didn't step in during that incident, and were largely blamed for the whole ordeal.
While I find this event distasteful and fighting in an international setting isn't the right thing to do, once you see four guys beating on one guy and all the Chinese players come off the sidelines the Americans had to get in there as well.
You can't sit there and watch your buddies get pummeled on; as much as it isn't right to fight, it is definitely wrong to not help out your teammates.
On August 19 2011 07:28 iCanada wrote: This reminds me a lot of the "Punch-up in Piestany" brawl between Canada and the USSR in 1987. Very similar standoff in terms of un-heard-of violence and underlying political themes involved between the two nations playing.
From what I know, basketball in China is nowhere as physical as basketball in America. So I can understand why the Chinese players were upset, if they are not used to such a degree of contact. This may well have prompted the multiple foul calls though I wouldn't doubt the bias of the refs as well. It also probably didn't help that an American college team was giving them, a "pro" team, a run for their money even with the calls going in their favor. That being said, as a Chinese, I feel humiliated that a pro team would act in such a fashion over a goodwill game. Though Georgetown may have been playing "rough," the violence was clearly instigated by the Chinese player fouling the Georgetown player after he recovered the loose ball. Their actions are inexcusable.
On August 19 2011 07:42 Telcontar wrote: It seems like one of the chinese players was called for a foul, the american player showed his displeasure by taking a swing (which the chinese player dodged), and the nearby chinese players ganged up on the american player in question. While I get that tensions were already frayed by the fact that the refs seem to have been favouring the home team, it was wrong for that GU player to take matter into his own hands.
have you seen that foul? he gives him a knee to the body. that gets you ejected, suspended, and fined in the nba.
DAT EXAGGERATION
He definitely fouled the GT player but did not "knee him in the body."
On August 19 2011 07:32 ChicoLopez wrote: I am an American F*&K yeah guy, but it may be too early to tell what happened. I do not watch basketball, so my opinion is largely based on a segment of some tv show (60 Min?)talking about foreign basketball players (Europe) and their style of play. According to what I saw -which was several years ago- European coaches/players had little respect for American players. They felt that they played ball like they would at some backyard tournament. They felt the Americans fouled all the time and had basically could not/would not attempt to master the "basics". They felt American players fouled, and "walked" all the time, and couldn't adjust their game. They basically fouled out.
They mentioned some "famous" American college player who came over and couldn't stay in the game because he fouled out. They talked about how they spend hours drilling players on the basics like free throws, something Americans were not as good at. They mentioned that many of the top players being drafted were Europeans. Don't know if that was the problem, or the ChiComs didn't like how the game was going. Lets see.
How dare americans play basketball the way they want to play basketball i mean who do they think they are inventors of the game? I mean come on even so it's not like american colleges moved basketball forward into the game it is today with fade away shoots and shit like dunking. Not like America has been top placers in Olympic and world championships year after year.
i invented this game so heres the rules for everyone else while i do what i want, is what you're saying here
are you sure you dont want to try that post again
=p the point of satire which you don't seem to get is you can't complain about style from the leaders in the game, you just come across as being salty ie sore losers. The rules actually do differ league to league usually dealing with little things. But it's a competition so if you complain and you aren't the winners you're nothing more then sore losers.
On August 19 2011 07:32 ChicoLopez wrote: I am an American F*&K yeah guy, but it may be too early to tell what happened. I do not watch basketball, so my opinion is largely based on a segment of some tv show (60 Min?)talking about foreign basketball players (Europe) and their style of play. According to what I saw -which was several years ago- European coaches/players had little respect for American players. They felt that they played ball like they would at some backyard tournament. They felt the Americans fouled all the time and had basically could not/would not attempt to master the "basics". They felt American players fouled, and "walked" all the time, and couldn't adjust their game. They basically fouled out.
They mentioned some "famous" American college player who came over and couldn't stay in the game because he fouled out. They talked about how they spend hours drilling players on the basics like free throws, something Americans were not as good at. They mentioned that many of the top players being drafted were Europeans. Don't know if that was the problem, or the ChiComs didn't like how the game was going. Lets see.
How dare americans play basketball the way they want to play basketball i mean who do they think they are inventors of the game? I mean come on even so it's not like american colleges moved basketball forward into the game it is today with fade away shoots and shit like dunking. Not like America has been top placers in Olympic and world championships year after year.
how can a .ca site be bias! I mean it doesn't take into account that he lived in the US during that time and eventually became a us citizen and died in the US XD
On August 19 2011 08:08 mastergriggy wrote: Wait so the chinese team started it? I couldn't tell from the video.
It's hard to tell who stopped shoving and who started punching as they look similar but before that it was a dirty game on both sides with the ref siding on one side which only made it worse.
can't really tell how it started from that vid -.-' but there sure are a lot of people to quickly jump on to conclusions when it's obvious you can't see shit.
anyways, why is this big news fights happen all the time in hockey no1 really gives a shit
On August 19 2011 07:32 ChicoLopez wrote: I am an American F*&K yeah guy, but it may be too early to tell what happened. I do not watch basketball, so my opinion is largely based on a segment of some tv show (60 Min?)talking about foreign basketball players (Europe) and their style of play. According to what I saw -which was several years ago- European coaches/players had little respect for American players. They felt that they played ball like they would at some backyard tournament. They felt the Americans fouled all the time and had basically could not/would not attempt to master the "basics". They felt American players fouled, and "walked" all the time, and couldn't adjust their game. They basically fouled out.
They mentioned some "famous" American college player who came over and couldn't stay in the game because he fouled out. They talked about how they spend hours drilling players on the basics like free throws, something Americans were not as good at. They mentioned that many of the top players being drafted were Europeans. Don't know if that was the problem, or the ChiComs didn't like how the game was going. Lets see.
How dare americans play basketball the way they want to play basketball i mean who do they think they are inventors of the game? I mean come on even so it's not like american colleges moved basketball forward into the game it is today with fade away shoots and shit like dunking. Not like America has been top placers in Olympic and world championships year after year.
Anyways, the incident seemed pretty biased towards the Chinese team. It's hard to be surprised by it though considering the national/personal pride on the line.
Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was + Show Spoiler +
Black
. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was + Show Spoiler +
Black
. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
OH Im racist because everyone here is bashing China OVER and OVER again.. Right.. Im just telling the truth, if you dont like it, get off the internet.
On August 19 2011 08:25 HikariPrime wrote: OH Im racist because everyone here is bashing China OVER and OVER again.. Right.. Im just telling the truth, if you dont like it, get off the internet.
On August 19 2011 08:25 HikariPrime wrote: OH Im racist because everyone here is bashing China OVER and OVER again.. Right.. Im just telling the truth, if you dont like it, get off the internet.
it's racist because you think black people are genetically inclined to instigate fights. people are bashing china because they instigated a brawl in a FRIENDLY exhibition game
Not a good conclusion for Georgetown/U.S., but what an absolute disgrace for the Chinese team. The free throw disparity was ridiculous, I have never seen anything like that. Glad my Dukies got out of there without fighting, the referee bias in that game was ludicrous as well.
On August 19 2011 08:30 R4TM wrote: Why OP said that the chinese team did wrong? there's no single fact toward that point of view, such racist statement OP did.
Because they are the professional team, who fucking cares that they are chinese?
washington post seems to have the best article that I can find on the story.
Bayi is a military team in the Chinese Basketball Association whose players serve in the Chinese army...
Some Chinese fans were incredulous. “It seemed that [the referee] was eager to the Chinese team win tonight, so the Georgetown team members were very unhappy about it,” said Zhou Ting, 26, a doctoral candidate in biology at the Chinese Academy of Science who attended both games. “I can tell the Chinese players provoked the conflict. . . .The [Bayi] basketball players have got a bad habit of revenge on every small, unfair thing in the Chinese Basketball Association. It’s a hooligan’s habit.”
but what really disappoints me is how the Chinese Websites are all censored on this story...Xinhua.com, 168.com, sina.com, nothing from them, just about VP Biden watching yesterdays game. I consider this even worse then the brawl itself.
On August 19 2011 08:25 HikariPrime wrote: OH Im racist because everyone here is bashing China OVER and OVER again.. Right.. Im just telling the truth, if you dont like it, get off the internet.
it's racist because you think black people are genetically inclined to instigate fights. people are bashing china because they instigated a brawl in a FRIENDLY exhibition game
He didnt say a damn thing about genetic inclination.
On August 19 2011 08:30 R4TM wrote: Why OP said that the chinese team did wrong? there's no single fact toward that point of view, such racist statement OP did.
Well, there's the obvious bias by the refs - but thats not really the Chinese Team, that's the Chinese overall. Specifically, what the team did wrong, was ganging up on players, using chairs as weapons (G-Town players did pick up chairs, but did not use any as weapons - One player did slam a chair into the court, but no one was within 5 feet of him), and most important to me, the Chinese Trainers (Coaching Staff) joined in the fighting. That is 100% completely unacceptable. Staff are supposed to calm players down, not engage in the fighting.
The one person who looks good in this is Coach Thompson - I think he made the right choice by instantly loading his players on the bus.
On August 19 2011 08:30 R4TM wrote: Why OP said that the chinese team did wrong? there's no single fact toward that point of view, such racist statement OP did.
On August 19 2011 08:33 scribe123456 wrote: washington post seems to have the best article that I can find on the story.
Bayi is a military team in the Chinese Basketball Association whose players serve in the Chinese army...
Some Chinese fans were incredulous. “It seemed that [the referee] was eager to the Chinese team win tonight, so the Georgetown team members were very unhappy about it,” said Zhou Ting, 26, a doctoral candidate in biology at the Chinese Academy of Science who attended both games. “I can tell the Chinese players provoked the conflict. . . .The [Bayi] basketball players have got a bad habit of revenge on every small, unfair thing in the Chinese Basketball Association. It’s a hooligan’s habit.”
but what really disappoints me is how the Chinese Webs are all censored on this story...Xinhua.com, 168.com, sina.com, nothing from them, just about VP Biden watching yesterdays game. I consider this even worse then the brawl itself.
XD imma make a gif of the whole start just in that limited time frame, i see it as chinese player dives for loose ball, GTplayer picks it up tries to pass it, chinese player jumps up right into him(blatant fowl there right in front of a ref too) as he gets the ball out, GT player not happy with that takes a swipe at him can't tell if that is a punch slap or push, the 2 chinese players the one who was swiped at and the other one near him get in his face and push him looks like at his face with the one who wasn't swiped at starts to hit him at the back, the GT moves to get out of that and falls the rest is the brawl.
On August 19 2011 08:25 HikariPrime wrote: OH Im racist because everyone here is bashing China OVER and OVER again.. Right.. Im just telling the truth, if you dont like it, get off the internet.
it's racist because you think black people are genetically inclined to instigate fights. people are bashing china because they instigated a brawl in a FRIENDLY exhibition game
He didnt say a damn thing about genetic inclination.
Seems to me all of the American team was Black . Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
Bayi is a military team in the Chinese Basketball Association whose players serve in the Chinese army...
Some Chinese fans were incredulous. “It seemed that [the referee] was eager to the Chinese team win tonight, so the Georgetown team members were very unhappy about it,” said Zhou Ting, 26, a doctoral candidate in biology at the Chinese Academy of Science who attended both games. “I can tell the Chinese players provoked the conflict. . . .The [Bayi] basketball players have got a bad habit of revenge on every small, unfair thing in the Chinese Basketball Association. It’s a hooligan’s habit.”
but what really disappoints me is how the Chinese Webs are all censored on this story...Xinhua.com, 168.com, sina.com, nothing from them, just about VP Biden watching yesterdays game. I consider this even worse then the brawl itself.
Chinese media not reporting a story that shows China in a negative light in a situation involving the United States? You don't say.
And the people claiming American bias and racism on this are a joke. Nobody is saying Chinese people are evil or inherently wrong. We're saying that the Chinese ref IN THIS GAME was a biased piece of trash who clearly attempted to aid the Chinese team, and the Chinese team is a bunch of violent thugs who used their MILITARY TRAINING to beat up a bunch of 18-22 year old college students even after they were on the ground not fighting back.
On August 19 2011 08:30 R4TM wrote: Why OP said that the chinese team did wrong? there's no single fact toward that point of view, such racist statement OP did.
Well, there's the obvious bias by the refs - but thats not really the Chinese Team, that's the Chinese overall. Specifically, what the team did wrong, was ganging up on players, using chairs as weapons (G-Town players did pick up chairs, but did not use any as weapons - One player did slam a chair into the court, but no one was within 5 feet of him), and most important to me, the Chinese Trainers (Coaching Staff) joined in the fighting. That is 100% completely unacceptable. Staff are supposed to calm players down, not engage in the fighting.
The one person who looks good in this is Coach Thompson - I think he made the right choice by instantly loading his players on the bus.
i just want to add that if he is anything like his dad, coach thompson is a 100% class act and i'd imagine it would take an extreme scenario (like this one) to get this kind of response from his players. that said, i'd bet they are still going to get hell for it
Yeah from the looks of it while there might have been a few Georgetown players who were really getting into the fight, basically all the Chinese were ganging up on the Hoyas. Granted it's impossible to really know what happened, but it looked like the Chinese were being a bit more aggressive in my opinion.
On August 19 2011 08:25 HikariPrime wrote: OH Im racist because everyone here is bashing China OVER and OVER again.. Right.. Im just telling the truth, if you dont like it, get off the internet.
Yes, actually you are. You are generalizing a whole race based on a handful of people you knew in school. I bet you never got to know those people and have a genuine conversation with any one of those people. This is actually a very common aspect of racism. Nobody tries to have a genuine conversation (where one person talks and the other LISTENS, and vice versa) with a race of people they have a problem with. This reinforces the person's beliefs instead of it being challenged.
YOU also generalized as everyone in this thread as bashing all Chinese people. And that is not true. People are being critical of the Chinese players in this specific video, whom are supposed to be PROFESSIONALS, and they are beating up on college kids.
Take a second to reflect on yourself there buddy, try to grow. I doubt you will take my advice and you will react in a typical defensive way, but I can hope.
I wouldn't be so biased, claiming that it was entirely China's fault, but realize that after the American team begins to leave the floor the chinese crowd starts throwing bottles and cans at them! wtf! So I can understand your bias but I wouldn't exactly point fingers at who started it. I'm simply disgusted with the way the crowd reacted.
Stupid Americans (Yes I know I will be banned for this)! First blow was given by an American. No matter what happen before this video (pics or it didn't happen) the Americans were responsible, not the Chinese. Having some sort of sport record (I've played something called floor ball for more the half of my 16year old life) and being the team captain, I know that is doesn't matter how much the other guys (Chinese here) triggers you, the guy giving the first blow should be punished (America). So OP, stop being a stupid patriotic American, the world have to many of those already. (Retard)
On August 19 2011 08:50 SomeONEx wrote: Stupid Americans (Yes I know I will be banned for this)! First blow was given by an American. No matter what happen before this video (pics or it didn't happen) the Americans were responsible, not the Chinese. Having some sort of sport record (I've played something called floor ball for more the half of my 16year old life) and being the team captain, I know that is doesn't matter how much the other guys (Chinese here) triggers you, the guy giving the first blow should be punished (America). So OP, stop being a stupid patriotic American, the world have to many of those already. (Retard)
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was + Show Spoiler +
Black
. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
User was temp banned for this post.
Wait what? First off, public schools in America really depend on where you live. I know of public schools that have better education and programs then some of the private schools. Secondly, it's Georgetown, which is far from public seeing as they have some of the highest tuition fees of all American colleges. So not only are you racist, you're also + Show Spoiler +
stupid.
On August 19 2011 08:50 SomeONEx wrote: Stupid Americans (Yes I know I will be banned for this)! First blow was given by an American. No matter what happen before this video (pics or it didn't happen) the Americans were responsible, not the Chinese. Having some sort of sport record (I've played something called floor ball for more the half of my 16year old life) and being the team captain, I know that is doesn't matter how much the other guys (Chinese here) triggers you, the guy giving the first blow should be punished (America). So OP, stop being a stupid patriotic American, the world have to many of those already. (Retard)
This user has been banned bla bla ... )
An important part of this (from my understanding) is that there was a lot of tension building between the two teams. And let's be honest, the Chinese team is a group of professionals and while the Georgetown team did not act in a mature or professional manner, neither did the Chinese. While I personally believe that both teams are somewhat at fault, the professionals should have acted maturely. Plus, I might be crazy, but in the video it looked to me like once the fight started the Chinese were being a lot more aggressive and were attacking Hoyas even while they were on the ground. It has nothing to do with the fact that they're Chinese. It has to do with that fact that they are professionals who acted in a very immature and unprofessional manner.
On August 19 2011 08:50 SomeONEx wrote: Stupid Americans (Yes I know I will be banned for this)! First blow was given by an American. No matter what happen before this video (pics or it didn't happen) the Americans were responsible, not the Chinese. Having some sort of sport record (I've played something called floor ball for more the half of my 16year old life) and being the team captain, I know that is doesn't matter how much the other guys (Chinese here) triggers you, the guy giving the first blow should be punished (America). So OP, stop being a stupid patriotic American, the world have to many of those already. (Retard)
This user has been banned bla bla ... )
I guess you missed the part where the person was kneed (at what looks close to the groin) by a Chinese player, and gets a no call, after a whole game of no calls to the GT players, and over calls for the Chinese team (cited from a few different articles, and a reporter who was at the game).
So, he responded by shoving the Chinese player. The Chinese player shoves back, and then ANOTHER player shoves the AMerican, both of them shoved him in the head. And then a trainer joins in the fight and stomps on the kid. You are so blatantly naive. You are only 16 years old, you think saying that you played a sport for ONLY 8 years makes you qualified for saying what matters in a game? Please, I played basketball for as many years as you have been alive. Trust me, it does matter, it escalates. Some hold their emotions better than others.
But if you can say that it was the Americans fault, than I can only wonder at who in your life made you predisposed to disliking Americans..
The security guards apparently didn't do anything.
A woman sitting in the Georgetown fan section directly behind the bench implored Chinese police to try to calm the situation, yelling about the risk of injuries to bystanders. Chinese authorities made no attempt to break up any of the fights, and the three officials working the game could not be seen as the melee erupted.
A woman sitting in the Georgetown fan section directly behind the bench implored Chinese police to try to calm the situation, yelling about the risk of injuries to bystanders. Chinese authorities made no attempt to break up any of the fights, and the three officials working the game could not be seen as the melee erupted.
Actually I saw one of those "officials" in the video just walking non-chalantly by the bench. I'll get a reference point for you in the video..It's pretty sad.
EDIT: First seen at 0:46 mark, and again at the 0:58 mark. To his credit he could be patrolling the crowd to make sure nothing breaks out there, but who knows.
On August 19 2011 08:50 SomeONEx wrote: Stupid Americans (Yes I know I will be banned for this)! First blow was given by an American. No matter what happen before this video (pics or it didn't happen) the Americans were responsible, not the Chinese. Having some sort of sport record (I've played something called floor ball for more the half of my 16year old life) and being the team captain, I know that is doesn't matter how much the other guys (Chinese here) triggers you, the guy giving the first blow should be punished (America). So OP, stop being a stupid patriotic American, the world have to many of those already. (Retard)
This user has been banned bla bla ... )
i still think it's really hard to claim the georgetown player "started" it. the chinese player was all over him trying to get the loose ball, and it looked like he kneed him in the side. from there, the georgetown player seems to be pushing the chinese player off him, which is probably unnecessary and obviously a sign of frustration. if you watch 99% of professional NBA players in this position, it would go like this: player pushes the other player off them, other player puts his hands up and says he didn't do anything, player doing the pushing gets a technical. the chinese player absolutely escalated the situation, and considering there were 3 chinese players surrounding the one guy, the other georgetown players had every right to protect their player
ugly all around, and not sure if assigning blame is even correct
On August 19 2011 08:50 SomeONEx wrote: Stupid Americans (Yes I know I will be banned for this)! First blow was given by an American. No matter what happen before this video (pics or it didn't happen) the Americans were responsible, not the Chinese. Having some sort of sport record (I've played something called floor ball for more the half of my 16year old life) and being the team captain, I know that is doesn't matter how much the other guys (Chinese here) triggers you, the guy giving the first blow should be punished (America). So OP, stop being a stupid patriotic American, the world have to many of those already. (Retard)
This user has been banned bla bla ... )
i still think it's really hard to claim the georgetown player "started" it. the chinese player was all over him trying to get the loose ball, and it looked like he kneed him in the side. from there, the georgetown player seems to be pushing the chinese player off him, which is probably unnecessary and obviously a sign of frustration. if you watch 99% of professional NBA players in this position, it would go like this: player pushes the other player off them, other player puts his hands up and says he didn't do anything, player doing the pushing gets a technical. the chinese player absolutely escalated the situation, and considering there were 3 chinese players surrounding the one guy, the other georgetown players had every right to protect their player
ugly all around, and not sure if assigning blame is even correct
well in the NBA if you so much as throw a chair you can get fined, if you even start a fight you are most certainly banned from the season if not banned for even longer. I'm not going to point fingers at chinese regulation, but this was a show match so they either don't care or this kind of stuff happens frequently in china and isn't a big deal to them. They need to wise up though because you CAN'T risk a fight when injuries are possible and could potentially ruin someones entire career. What happened if one of the GT players was going to be drafted next season but gets injured and can't play? They could recover and try and get drafted again but his chances are greatly reduced.
On August 19 2011 08:50 SomeONEx wrote: Stupid Americans (Yes I know I will be banned for this)! First blow was given by an American. No matter what happen before this video (pics or it didn't happen) the Americans were responsible, not the Chinese. Having some sort of sport record (I've played something called floor ball for more the half of my 16year old life) and being the team captain, I know that is doesn't matter how much the other guys (Chinese here) triggers you, the guy giving the first blow should be punished (America). So OP, stop being a stupid patriotic American, the world have to many of those already. (Retard)
This user has been banned bla bla ... )
When you say "Stupid Americans" and then "I know I will be banned for this!" It's like some sort of pathetic attempt to get attention through provocation and immature behavior, and then when you get banned for your childishness, scream "SEE! SEE! American's are against the world etc etc etc." You won't get banned because the mods on this forum are above your BULLSHIT, and won't play into your pathetic bait for attention.
P.S. Basketball is a physical sport. Contact happens in scrambles for loose balls. That doesn't give a team from another country the right to mob down on a guy who is running away. Grow the fuck up.
*EDIT* Corrected, he WAS banned lol. Guess I was wrong. Nice job mods! :D
On August 19 2011 09:00 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Perhaps this will curb some of the Chinese racism I see that black people are violent brutes.
*sigh* I haven't really seen that much Chinese racism. Just talking about the Chinese players. C'mon now. You are like the 3rd or 4th person to bring in racism against black people. Do yourself a favor and walk away.
This gets me ready for college basketball to start up again. Pretty intense that this came to happen, would be a bit nerve wrecking to be a Hoya player there.
On August 19 2011 09:00 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Perhaps this will curb some of the Chinese racism I see that black people are violent brutes.
*sigh* I haven't really seen that much Chinese racism. Just talking about the Chinese players. C'mon now. You are like the 3rd or 4th person to bring in racism against black people. Do yourself a favor and walk away.
On August 19 2011 08:28 OneOther wrote: Not a good conclusion for Georgetown/U.S., but what an absolute disgrace for the Chinese team. The free throw disparity was ridiculous, I have never seen anything like that. Glad my Dukies got out of there without fighting, the referee bias in that game was ludicrous as well.
To be fair, Georgetown's game before this (also in China) went off without any issues.
On August 19 2011 08:30 R4TM wrote: Why OP said that the chinese team did wrong? there's no single fact toward that point of view, such racist statement OP did.
On August 19 2011 08:33 scribe123456 wrote: washington post seems to have the best article that I can find on the story.
Bayi is a military team in the Chinese Basketball Association whose players serve in the Chinese army...
Some Chinese fans were incredulous. “It seemed that [the referee] was eager to the Chinese team win tonight, so the Georgetown team members were very unhappy about it,” said Zhou Ting, 26, a doctoral candidate in biology at the Chinese Academy of Science who attended both games. “I can tell the Chinese players provoked the conflict. . . .The [Bayi] basketball players have got a bad habit of revenge on every small, unfair thing in the Chinese Basketball Association. It’s a hooligan’s habit.”
but what really disappoints me is how the Chinese Webs are all censored on this story...Xinhua.com, 168.com, sina.com, nothing from them, just about VP Biden watching yesterdays game. I consider this even worse then the brawl itself.
XD imma make a gif of the whole start just in that limited time frame, i see it as chinese player dives for loose ball, GTplayer picks it up tries to pass it, chinese player jumps up right into him(blatant fowl there right in front of a ref too) as he gets the ball out, GT player not happy with that takes a swipe at him can't tell if that is a punch slap or push, the 2 chinese players the one who was swiped at and the other one near him get in his face and push him looks like at his face with the one who wasn't swiped at starts to hit him at the back, the GT moves to get out of that and falls the rest is the brawl.
edit herp lol the gif was cut off need to find another hosting site
On August 19 2011 09:00 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Perhaps this will curb some of the Chinese racism I see that black people are violent brutes.
what on earth are you talking about
There's extremely negative stereotypes against black people in China and in much of Asia that they are all very violent people. I know my mother, who grew up in Taiwan, when first coming to the U.S. (didn't have any family here, didn't really speak English), was under the impression that a majority of black people had violent tendencies and a large percentage of them were rapists. Ironically, she ended up having a temporary black roommate a year or so later and she said he was one of the sweetest guys she had met.
That video with a better angle to fight was kind of terrifying. A few of the Georgetown players get isolated and there's chairs and a freaking metal post flying around with punches being thrown, while one of the coaches or trainers is restraining a Georgetown player in the foreground watching his teammates gets swarmed.
I'm pretty convinced there's a special level of hell for crooked basketball referees. Even if a Georgetown player threw the first punch (looked like a shove after a hard foul to me), there is nothing more frustrating than being pummeled in a basketball game while being called for non-fouls. The referee is directly controlling the game at that point, and not only that, but you are taking physical punishment that you are powerless to do anything about if you maintain your composure.
I had an intramural basketball game where it was a team of referees and the guys refereeing were crooked- I fouled out of an intramural sports game (I had never fouled out of a game in my life- in fact, I generally played too passively and rarely went over 2 fouls) and I was getting pummeled all game long culminating in one of them stepping on my feet while simultaneously tripping and pushing me into a hard fall at midcourt away from the ball, with a referee 6 feet away. It wasn't called a foul. I was pissed off for the next week, and thinking about it, I'm still pissed off. What gives them the right?
Then to have a bunch of fans and coaches join the melee... yeesh. Glad it didn't get any worse, but the referees are almost certainly at fault, and they're probably sitting smugly laughing that the "punks" got what they "deserved."
On August 19 2011 09:00 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Perhaps this will curb some of the Chinese racism I see that black people are violent brutes.
what on earth are you talking about
There's extremely negative stereotypes against black people in China and in much of Asia that they are all very violent people. I know my mother, who grew up in Taiwan, when first coming to the U.S. (didn't have any family here, didn't really speak English), was under the impression that a majority of black people had violent tendencies and a large percentage of them were rapists. Ironically, she ended up having a temporary black roommate a year or so later and she said he was one of the sweetest guys she had met.
oh geez, i completely misread the original thing. a lot of chinese are racist against black people? lame
Ah gotta love blind hate towards a country when these kids have nothing to do with the problems you have with it... not saying Americans don't ever do it but this is pathetic.
There's quite a few China apologists in this thread. I think the story is pretty clear from the different accounts we've read/seen.
The American team was getting an exorbitantly high number of fouls called on them the entire game. The difference in free throw numbers clearly points to ref bias. In addition to that, fouls by the Chinese team were mostly going uncalled.
As the point of the fight, the Chinese players trip the American player then knee him in the torso as he's trying to rise to his feet. This is so ridiculously over-aggressive, it is basically saying "I want to hurt you" to the other player. The American player obviously takes exception, and that's all the excuse the ENTIRE CHINESE TEAM needs to clear their bench and start ganging up on people.
During the fight, it can be seen that the Chinese players are the primary aggressors, while the American players are trying to defend themselves and their teammates, eventually beating a hasty retreat for the exit. Each teams' actions is concordant with the mood set for the entire game by the officiating crew, allowing the Chinese team to have the run of the game while shutting down anything by the American team.
What's funny to me through all of this is, despite the refs' best efforts, the Chinese team still only managed to tie the score, and only after the American team had left the court!
In the aftermath, we're seeing a lot of censorship in the Chinese media about what happened. Why would they have anything to hide if their actions were justified? Meanwhile, a more complete picture is being formed here; we even have firsthand accounts from unbiased spectators. While it may not convince everyone, all of the evidence points squarely at the Chinese as the primary movers and instigators behind the conflict.
On August 19 2011 09:00 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Perhaps this will curb some of the Chinese racism I see that black people are violent brutes.
what on earth are you talking about
There's extremely negative stereotypes against black people in China and in much of Asia that they are all very violent people. I know my mother, who grew up in Taiwan, when first coming to the U.S. (didn't have any family here, didn't really speak English), was under the impression that a majority of black people had violent tendencies and a large percentage of them were rapists. Ironically, she ended up having a temporary black roommate a year or so later and she said he was one of the sweetest guys she had met.
oh geez, i completely misread the original thing. a lot of chinese are racist against black people? lame
I did as well if that is indeed what Hidden_MotiveS' post was inferring. I read it completely differently.
On August 19 2011 09:01 emc wrote: well in the NBA if you so much as throw a chair you can get fined, if you even start a fight you are most certainly banned from the season if not banned for even longer.
in the NBA, if you even just get up from your chair, you are suspended for the next game. (see: amare stoudamire, phx vs. sa, 2007 playoffs). and yet here you have the training staff stomping on a defenseless player? how embarrassing is that?
again, in that situation, when someone's trying to pass the ball like that, you NEVER jump forward unless you want to intentionally flagrant foul or you fall hard for a pump fake. there's no excuse for that, and there sure as hell is no excuse for lifting your leg to knee someone. it's bad enough when someone jumps on you.
and stop with the racism/nationalism. if everyone was the same race, here's what you would see: -adults beating up kids with chairs. -Bayi players mobbing GT players who have clearly surrendered and are trying to escape. -GT players frustrated that their own coaching staff is holding them back, while Bayi's coaching staff is joining in the fight. -the crowd joining in and throwing water bottles at both GT fans/family and at players.
On August 19 2011 09:12 Ravencruiser wrote: Great neutrality in your post OP.
And I'm sure the Washington Post is a great neutral source for this story.
Did you read the article?
It's pretty much the only source that has been presented where the writer was at the game and states the course of events leading up to the brawl. Basically all other media outlets are referencing Wang's account of the story as they didn't have anyone at the event to cover it.
The OP didn't even link to that article in the first place, it was edited in because it is the best account we have.
On August 19 2011 09:12 Ravencruiser wrote: Great neutrality in your post OP.
And I'm sure the Washington Post is a great neutral source for this story.
Did you read the article?
It's pretty much the only source that has been presented where the writer was at the game and states the course of events leading up to the brawl. Basically all other media outlets are referencing Wang's account of the story as they didn't have anyone at the event to cover it.
The OP didn't even link to that article in the first place, it was edited in because it is the best account we have.
That, and the fact that we can't really link a Chinese article here because, guess what? The government is censoring it so it paints a certain picture; a picture that reflects the GT as the offenders and having started and instigated the fight. So if we were to link a Chinese article, it would be a far more "biased" one than the Washington Post's story. Which actually gives a pretty good background to the game.
As the point of the fight, the Chinese players trip the American player then knee him in the torso as he's trying to rise to his feet. This is so ridiculously over-aggressive, it is basically saying "I want to hurt you" to the other player. The American player obviously takes exception, and that's all the excuse the ENTIRE CHINESE TEAM needs to clear their bench and start ganging up on people.
Oh come on.
While i'm not supporting the aggression of that Chinese player, that isn't what happened. He was clearly just being over aggressive with trying to grab the basketball and did not intentionally knee the GT player (I dont think he even kneed him, can't tell though).
How do people not see it starts with the black kid hitting the chinese guy in the stomach when they both land ? pretty silly imo by the op to blame it on the chinese players
Some Chinese fans were incredulous. “It seemed that [the referee] was eager to the Chinese team win tonight, so the Georgetown team members were very unhappy about it,” said Zhou Ting, 26, a doctoral candidate in biology at the Chinese Academy of Science who attended both games. “I can tell the Chinese players provoked the conflict. . . .The [Bayi] basketball players have got a bad habit of revenge on every small, unfair thing in the Chinese Basketball Association. It’s a hooligan’s habit.”
People should read a bit more before they post....or is the article dismissed because it's written by a biased 'merican? Ironic that the people most critical about Bayi in the first pages of this thread are Chinese. Guess they don't have to worry about being politically correct in this case and call bullshit when they see it.
On August 19 2011 09:39 matzisc wrote: How do people not see it starts with the black kid hitting the chinese guy in the stomach when they both land ? pretty silly imo by the op to blame it on the chinese players
if i push you around all day, you tell the teachers/authority no one cares so you get frustrated and next time i push you, you take a swipe at me clearly it's all your fault. At which point me and my friend push you around some more and more ppl come to step on you and hit you with a chair. all your fault indeed
There's quite a few China apologists in this thread. I think the story is pretty clear from the different accounts we've read/seen.
lol There's a fuckton of ugly shit in China, and honestly this is nothing compared to the serious stuff that goes down there. There are hockey fights here in Canada that aren't much better. The reason that apologists flock to this thread is because it is needlessly nationalistic. Right is right, wrong is wrong; some places may have more wrong than others. It's easy to look up some pirates and go all "lololol Somalians so violent" but no amount of jostling to be on the moral high ground has ever solved a problem. The only conclusion to be made here, if the past few posters are right, is that the college teams should demand a review or refuse to play. It's ridiculous to make claims on a national level based on a basketball game.
and yes I'm Chinese, let's be honest calling out poster nationalities means nothing
As the point of the fight, the Chinese players trip the American player then knee him in the torso as he's trying to rise to his feet. This is so ridiculously over-aggressive, it is basically saying "I want to hurt you" to the other player. The American player obviously takes exception, and that's all the excuse the ENTIRE CHINESE TEAM needs to clear their bench and start ganging up on people.
Oh come on.
While i'm not supporting the aggression of that Chinese player, that isn't what happened. He was clearly just being over aggressive with trying to grab the basketball and did not intentionally knee the GT player (I dont think he even kneed him, can't tell though).
I'm going to assume you don't really follow basketball, and if I'm incorrect in this assumpation than I apologize. However if you do follow basketball, that is a clear flagrant foul. The ball was out of the player's hands at that point, and that Chinese player has a lot of mass on him, that contact is deceptive in the sense that it doesn't look like much; but having that much mass jumped into you, especially when the GT player is quite a bit smaller can be jarring. However, I don't think it was so much as the contact as the clear no call there from the ref that was RIGHT there. Especially when at that point GT has been called for many fouls all game long, and the Chinese team was not.
On August 19 2011 09:39 matzisc wrote: How do people not see it starts with the black kid hitting the chinese guy in the stomach when they both land ? pretty silly imo by the op to blame it on the chinese players
if i push you around all day, you tell the teaches or authority no one cares so you get frustrated and next time i push you, you take a swipe at me clearly it's all your fault.
Now you're making assumptions and taking things out of context. It's a basketball game. If the referees are being biased, you don't retaliate by assaulting the other team.
On August 19 2011 09:39 matzisc wrote: How do people not see it starts with the black kid hitting the chinese guy in the stomach when they both land ? pretty silly imo by the op to blame it on the chinese players
Actually that's false. The kid did not hit the guy in the stomach. It is possible he touched the back of his jersey to keep his balance (hard to tell from the perspective), pretty silly by you for exaggerating and not even naming the correct body part. ><
Btw, I am referencing 0:17 at the video earlier on this page. Not sure if that is what you are talking about, but I think you are. Correct me if I'm wrong.
On August 19 2011 09:39 matzisc wrote: How do people not see it starts with the black kid hitting the chinese guy in the stomach when they both land ? pretty silly imo by the op to blame it on the chinese players
Actually that's false. The kid did not hit the guy in the stomach. It is possible he touched the back of his jersey to keep his balance (hard to tell from the perspective), pretty silly by you for exaggerating and not even naming the correct body part. ><
Btw, I am referencing 0:17 at the video earlier on this page. Not sure if that is what you are talking about, but I think you are. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Looks like a hard foul by the Chinese player leading to the American player to respond with a shove. Probably didn't merit a return shove, but with tempers flaring and bias reffing the American player probably was starting to get upset.
Ultimately started with a shove from the Georgetown player, whose aggressiveness was probably stemmed from the horribly one-sided reffing. Shitty behavior from everybody but if I had to place blame it would go Refs>>>>Shover>Chinese player mob.
Also from what I've seen there was no punching or kneeing by any players before the shove.
As the point of the fight, the Chinese players trip the American player then knee him in the torso as he's trying to rise to his feet. This is so ridiculously over-aggressive, it is basically saying "I want to hurt you" to the other player. The American player obviously takes exception, and that's all the excuse the ENTIRE CHINESE TEAM needs to clear their bench and start ganging up on people.
Oh come on.
While i'm not supporting the aggression of that Chinese player, that isn't what happened. He was clearly just being over aggressive with trying to grab the basketball and did not intentionally knee the GT player (I dont think he even kneed him, can't tell though).
I'm going to assume you don't really follow basketball, and if I'm incorrect in this assumpation than I apologize. However if you do follow basketball, that is a clear flagrant foul. The ball was out of the player's hands at that point, and that Chinese player has a lot of mass on him, that contact is deceptive in the sense that it doesn't look like much; but having that much mass jumped into you, especially when the GT player is quite a bit smaller can be jarring. However, I don't think it was so much as the contact as the clear no call there from the ref that was RIGHT there. Especially when at that point GT has been called for many fouls all game long, and the Chinese team was not.
No I agree that this is a hard foul.
I'm not going to comment on this incident as a whole because I don't want to get into that. But I'm addressing those people (like the person I'm quoting) that are exclaiming the Chinese player intentionally kneed the GT player's (side / torso / groin / whatever else they came up with) because that isn't what happened. I got a little annoyed by that.
As the point of the fight, the Chinese players trip the American player then knee him in the torso as he's trying to rise to his feet. This is so ridiculously over-aggressive, it is basically saying "I want to hurt you" to the other player. The American player obviously takes exception, and that's all the excuse the ENTIRE CHINESE TEAM needs to clear their bench and start ganging up on people.
Oh come on.
While i'm not supporting the aggression of that Chinese player, that isn't what happened. He was clearly just being over aggressive with trying to grab the basketball and did not intentionally knee the GT player (I dont think he even kneed him, can't tell though).
I'm going to assume you don't really follow basketball, and if I'm incorrect in this assumpation than I apologize. However if you do follow basketball, that is a clear flagrant foul. The ball was out of the player's hands at that point, and that Chinese player has a lot of mass on him, that contact is deceptive in the sense that it doesn't look like much; but having that much mass jumped into you, especially when the GT player is quite a bit smaller can be jarring. However, I don't think it was so much as the contact as the clear no call there from the ref that was RIGHT there. Especially when at that point GT has been called for many fouls all game long, and the Chinese team was not.
No I agree that this is a hard foul.
I'm not going to comment on this incident as a whole because I don't want to get into that. But I'm addressing those people (like the person I'm quoting) that are exclaiming the Chinese player intentionally kneed the GT player's (side / torso / groin / whatever else they came up with) because that isn't what happened. I got a little annoyed by that.
i've watched the thing shit ton of times by now he doesn't get kneed the GT payer turns his side while passing to the other GT player, the Chinese player hits the GT player's side with what looks like his chest, i can't be 100% sure but it looks after that the GT player is pissed that no foul is called and he pushes the Chinese player(then a foul is called XD), at which point the 2 players wrestle him to the ground.
On August 19 2011 09:39 matzisc wrote: How do people not see it starts with the black kid hitting the chinese guy in the stomach when they both land ? pretty silly imo by the op to blame it on the chinese players
Actually that's false. The kid did not hit the guy in the stomach. It is possible he touched the back of his jersey to keep his balance (hard to tell from the perspective), pretty silly by you for exaggerating and not even naming the correct body part. ><
Btw, I am referencing 0:17 at the video earlier on this page. Not sure if that is what you are talking about, but I think you are. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're wrong. He's clearly talking about :38.
I don't think he's talking about that moment, because they are not landing anywhere. And yeah, that was a push to the side of the Chinese player (which actually it looks like the GT player missed, lol! If you are gonna push someone, make sure you push them) and not to the player's stomach..so er, still not seeing anyone hit someone in the stomach.
On August 19 2011 09:48 randombum wrote: Looks like a hard foul by the Chinese player leading to the American player to respond with a shove. Probably didn't merit a return shove, but with tempers flaring and bias reffing the American player probably was starting to get upset.
Ultimately started with a shove from the Georgetown player, whose aggressiveness was probably stemmed from the horribly one-sided reffing. Shitty behavior from everybody but if I had to place blame it would go Refs>>>>Shover>Chinese player mob.
again, a hard shove is nothing in basketball, especially when someone just jumped on you.
you see that a lot in nba games. watch the video.
-gt player shoves bayi player -bayi player shoves back -2nd bayi player joins in and shoves him -gt player recognizes the danger of this situation and starts running away, especially because he's cornered and surrounded by white jerseys, and he trips on the ground -that stupid piece of shit in the white polo and khaki shorts runs up and starts stomping on him. -certain GT players are trying to get in close, and other bayi players huddle up and chase them down. (left side of OP's video, 0:15).
to me it appeared that a knee was given based on blurry video filmed from afar. whether or not that's true, i don't know. that's still not the important part, it was that he was jumped into. a knee would just be icing on the cake.
All else aside, I find it hilarious that people keep pushing the "GROWN MEN BEATING UP COLLEGE KIDS" angle, even though the American college basketball players tend to be, and Georgetown's team included, basically the same size/bigger than Asian people lol -_-
On August 19 2011 09:59 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: All else aside, I find it hilarious that people keep pushing the "GROWN MEN BEATING UP COLLEGE KIDS" angle, even though the American college basketball players tend to be, and Georgetown's team included, basically the same size/bigger than Asian people lol -_-
Asian people in general, sure. Professional Asian basketball players?! Ummmm, not necessarily. Chinese have some very tall ball players. Also want to add in the mental aspect of being an adult compared to a college kid. Some college kids are more mentally developed than others. But not all of them.
Especially considering these adults are apart of the Chinese army, you would think they would act more mature and show more sensitivity to the situation.
On August 19 2011 09:59 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: All else aside, I find it hilarious that people keep pushing the "GROWN MEN BEATING UP COLLEGE KIDS" angle, even though the American college basketball players tend to be, and Georgetown's team included, basically the same size/bigger than Asian people lol -_-
Asian people in general, sure. Professional Asian basketball players?! Ummmm, not necessarily. Chinese have some very tall ball players.
Watch the video, they're generally the same size, if not a bit in favor of the GT players. Not every Chinese player is a Yao Ming xD
@ Edit: This is nothing about how the Chinese had a right or something cause they were smaller lol of course they were retarded. But it's dumb to paint this as a bunch of grown men eating up on like 12 year olds or something.
On August 19 2011 09:59 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: All else aside, I find it hilarious that people keep pushing the "GROWN MEN BEATING UP COLLEGE KIDS" angle, even though the American college basketball players tend to be, and Georgetown's team included, basically the same size/bigger than Asian people lol -_-
Asian people in general, sure. Professional Asian basketball players?! Ummmm, not necessarily. Chinese have some very tall ball players.
Watch the video, they're generally the same size, if not a bit in favor of the GT players. Not every Chinese player is a Yao Ming xD
I do realize that, I didn't get my edit in before you saw my post I guess. A big point I want to push is the mental aspect. College kids are still growing mentally and maturity wise. Read my previous edited post ^_^
Looking forward to next weeks thread involving China. Considering that last week we had bear bile then hunters hunting NON endangered animals then now about a basketball game (c'mon really?) I'm curious on how trivial the angle on next weeks sino topic is going to be.
FML smh beat me to it with their front page story on a US ambassador buying coffee in person in China...
On August 19 2011 09:59 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: All else aside, I find it hilarious that people keep pushing the "GROWN MEN BEATING UP COLLEGE KIDS" angle, even though the American college basketball players tend to be, and Georgetown's team included, basically the same size/bigger than Asian people lol -_-
military basketball team sells it more although ionno where that started Its founding team members served in the People's Liberation Army (PLA). The "Bayi" in their name represents the anniversary of the founding of the PLA.
On August 19 2011 09:59 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: All else aside, I find it hilarious that people keep pushing the "GROWN MEN BEATING UP COLLEGE KIDS" angle, even though the American college basketball players tend to be, and Georgetown's team included, basically the same size/bigger than Asian people lol -_-
Asian people in general, sure. Professional Asian basketball players?! Ummmm, not necessarily. Chinese have some very tall ball players.
Watch the video, they're generally the same size, if not a bit in favor of the GT players. Not every Chinese player is a Yao Ming xD
@ Edit: This is nothing about how the Chinese had a right or something cause they were smaller lol of course they were retarded. But it's dumb to paint this as a bunch of grown men eating up on like 12 year olds or something.
Haha well it IS a bunch of grown-up men being childish and fighting (maybe even starting it, not gonna get into that) with kids in their late-teens and early 20s, right? I don't see how size even has to do anything with adult professional teams versus college kids
You dont play that rough or call tight games that are just essentially friendlies unless something weird is happening. The refs were pretty obviously screwing over Georgetown and the Chinese players were taking advantage of it.
Were losing track of whats important here. Did you see how much better Gtown was then the pro Chinese team lol. The chinese team had 50 foul shots and it was just tied. That is sick man. The United States will continue to dominate the Olympics for a long time to come in basketball. They totally outclassed this team and even with a severe handicap they didn't lose.
I also think that no matter what anyone says that picture is worth a 1000 words. You can't damage control all those little chinese guys stomping G towns player. Stuff happens in sports no matter the sport or location so I don't really think its to big of a deal but I think overall it looks much worse for the chinese team.
Bayi is very lucky that they were playing a team like Goergetown. Being a follower of College sports, there a great many more teams that would have literally stayed on the court and beat the shit outta everyone of those Chinese players. Regardless of what coaches could do.
Hell even in the Big East, I bet Syracuse and Pitt would have started using chairs too. Shame to see that really. But I guess this means that Georgetown won't be taking their summer trips to China anymore, Europe here they come.
The melee was the latest instance of on-court fighting by China, whose players have been fined tens of thousands of dollars by the world and Asian federations for scrapping with opponents.
I liked the end of the video with the Bayi player sitting on top of the GT player repeatedly punching him like an MMA match. I guess we should wait to see more of how the game developed, but with those calls I somehow doubt Bayi was playing fair. And drawing a John Thompson team into a fight? Doesn't seem normal.
On August 19 2011 10:47 Little Rage Box wrote: Bayi is very lucky that they were playing a team like Goergetown. Being a follower of College sports, there a great many more teams that would have literally stayed on the court and beat the shit outta everyone of those Chinese players. Regardless of what coaches could do.
Hell even in the Big East, I bet Syracuse and Pitt would have started using chairs too. Shame to see that really. But I guess this means that Georgetown won't be taking their summer trips to China anymore, Europe here they come.
Seriously. If that was Pitt or god forbid a Calipari team, that kid in the khakis would be eating through a tube tonight. I could see Demarcus Cousins chokeslamming someone.
The melee was the latest instance of on-court fighting by China, whose players have been fined tens of thousands of dollars by the world and Asian federations for scrapping with opponents.
I liked the end of the video with the Bayi player sitting on top of the GT player repeatedly punching him like an MMA match. I guess we should wait to see more of how the game developed, but with those calls I somehow doubt Bayi was playing fair. And drawing a John Thompson team into a fight? Doesn't seem normal.
On August 19 2011 10:47 Little Rage Box wrote: Bayi is very lucky that they were playing a team like Goergetown. Being a follower of College sports, there a great many more teams that would have literally stayed on the court and beat the shit outta everyone of those Chinese players. Regardless of what coaches could do.
Hell even in the Big East, I bet Syracuse and Pitt would have started using chairs too. Shame to see that really. But I guess this means that Georgetown won't be taking their summer trips to China anymore, Europe here they come.
Seriously. If that was Pitt or god forbid a Calipari team, that kid in the khakis would be eating through a tube tonight. I could see Demarcus Cousins chokeslamming someone.
Demarcus Cousins is in the NBA now.. lol and Georgetown usually is one of the more "ghetto" teams, so I think if they wanted to do something they would have, but they seemed to keep it cool like a team should. That's just me though.
On August 19 2011 10:48 Jibba wrote: From the ESPN article:
The melee was the latest instance of on-court fighting by China, whose players have been fined tens of thousands of dollars by the world and Asian federations for scrapping with opponents.
I liked the end of the video with the Bayi player sitting on top of the GT player repeatedly punching him like an MMA match. I guess we should wait to see more of how the game developed, but with those calls I somehow doubt Bayi was playing fair. And drawing a John Thompson team into a fight? Doesn't seem normal.
On August 19 2011 10:47 Little Rage Box wrote: Bayi is very lucky that they were playing a team like Goergetown. Being a follower of College sports, there a great many more teams that would have literally stayed on the court and beat the shit outta everyone of those Chinese players. Regardless of what coaches could do.
Hell even in the Big East, I bet Syracuse and Pitt would have started using chairs too. Shame to see that really. But I guess this means that Georgetown won't be taking their summer trips to China anymore, Europe here they come.
Seriously. If that was Pitt or god forbid a Calipari team, that kid in the khakis would be eating through a tube tonight. I could see Demarcus Cousins chokeslamming someone.
Demarcus Cousins is in the NBA now.. lol and Georgetown usually is one of the more "ghetto" teams, so I think if they wanted to do something they would have, but they seemed to keep it cool like a team should. That's just me though.
Georgetown is one of the more "Ghetto" teams? I assume by that statement you consider Duke to be "ghetto" as well. Two of Georgetown's starters were heavily recruited by Duke as well. Please quit with idiotic generalizations or come back with the facts. You are jsut as bad as the CBS blogger who posted about "Georgetown Thuggery" only to backtrack when the video did support his unsubstantiated claims. Leave the shit posting to those who are actually paid for it. Thanks!
OT - "That's just me though" = Cuse fan (possibly other Big East rival) or simply ignorant. Haven't heard such ridiculous statements since the Hoya paranoia and I doubt you were even alive for that as I certainly wasn't. Although fun to see that it is still alive and well in some circles.
As the point of the fight, the Chinese players trip the American player then knee him in the torso as he's trying to rise to his feet. This is so ridiculously over-aggressive, it is basically saying "I want to hurt you" to the other player. The American player obviously takes exception, and that's all the excuse the ENTIRE CHINESE TEAM needs to clear their bench and start ganging up on people.
Oh come on.
While i'm not supporting the aggression of that Chinese player, that isn't what happened. He was clearly just being over aggressive with trying to grab the basketball and did not intentionally knee the GT player (I dont think he even kneed him, can't tell though).
was a clear foul. Like super clear maybe not intentional but if your team is shooting 50+ freethrows then they must be calling some pretty retarded fouls. Which means them not calling this is like wtf cheat more?
As the point of the fight, the Chinese players trip the American player then knee him in the torso as he's trying to rise to his feet. This is so ridiculously over-aggressive, it is basically saying "I want to hurt you" to the other player. The American player obviously takes exception, and that's all the excuse the ENTIRE CHINESE TEAM needs to clear their bench and start ganging up on people.
Oh come on.
While i'm not supporting the aggression of that Chinese player, that isn't what happened. He was clearly just being over aggressive with trying to grab the basketball and did not intentionally knee the GT player (I dont think he even kneed him, can't tell though).
was a clear foul. Like super clear maybe not intentional but if your team is shooting 50+ freethrows then they must be calling some pretty retarded fouls. Which means them not calling this is like wtf cheat more?
Immediately before the fighting began, Bayi forward-center Hu Ke was called for a foul against Georgetown’s Jason Clark. The senior guard clearly took exception to the hard foul and said so to Hu, triggering an exchange of shoves.
On August 19 2011 11:54 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: hmm I think you misunderstood where he was going w/ that post bloodninja
I am not so sure. However, if it really was meant as sarcasm and I missed it then I apologize in advance. The thread admittedly already has me a bit "fired up" as is.
I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
On August 19 2011 06:17 Medrea wrote: From a lot of peoples personal perspective. The refs were trying to practically hand the game to the Chinese via fouls.
that does not in the slightest surprise me. chinese ppl man... so bad.
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
If everything said is true, it's a bit of both. Of course it's the Chinese players fault for consistently committing hard fouls (potentially even flagrant ones), but the referees not calling them for it while simultaneously calling the G.Town players for non-fouls or fouls that are much more minor than the Chinese teams fouls will very easily begin to wear on you, especially when the game is that close (and even more especially when it's only that close because of the referees favoring the other team so ridiculously) it can easily come to a point where a player on the other team is just smacking you around while you can barely touch them. What are you supposed to do at that point? Walk off the court? I mean, yes, you could, but it wasn't like their whole team was going to up and leave.
I'm sure the Gerogetown players had already appealed to the referees to call the game more fairly if they even understood English.
On August 19 2011 06:17 Medrea wrote: From a lot of peoples personal perspective. The refs were trying to practically hand the game to the Chinese via fouls.
that does not in the slightest surprise me. chinese ppl man... so bad.
Also, shit like this needs to stop, racism isn't cool. Really, stop.
I'm Chinese, and I fucking hate my race. While most try to deny it, most of the foundations of "sinophobia" are all true. Everything bad you've heard about China are all true - child harvesting, bear bile, and happen at frequencies that will shock you.
This incident again highlights the vile and disgusting behaviour of most of the Chinese population. However, you must realise that it is from their upbringing in such an environment which causes such actions - and that for the Chinese government ANY form of contact with foreign countries are considered a strenuous power struggle.
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
The shoving matches (there was more than one if you read the articles) occurred due to the refs letting the Chinese team getting away with murder (metaphorically speaking) while calling Georgetown for touch (ticky tack as american slang would say) fouls. Why spread false information about the refs NOT having role in this incident when they clearly did? It is literally impossible to have the foul discrepancy involved in this game with impartial refs, there fore the refs indeed had a role in this incident.
The part that disgusted me was when the American player tried to get away and the Chinese player ran him down and started pummeling him on the ground. Part of me was glad when the other members of the American team sacked that guy and gave him a bit of it back. But still, it's sad to see a good will game result in something like this. I hope Chinese teams can curb their aggression for the sake of good competition.
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
The shoving matches (there was more than one if you read the articles) occurred due to the refs letting the Chinese team getting away with murder (metaphorically speaking) while calling Georgetown for touch (ticky tack as american slang would say) fouls. Why spread false information about the refs NOT having role in this incident when they clearly did? It is literally impossible to have the foul discrepancy involved in this game with impartial refs, there fore the refs indeed had a role in this incident.
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
The shoving matches (there was more than one if you read the articles) occurred due to the refs letting the Chinese team getting away with murder (metaphorically speaking) while calling Georgetown for touch (ticky tack as american slang would say) fouls. Why spread false information about the refs NOT having role in this incident when they clearly did? It is literally impossible to have the foul discrepancy involved in this game with impartial refs, there fore the refs indeed had a role in this incident.
You watched the game?
Did you even read his post? It's only three sentences long...
Yea, from what I've seen, it most likely stemmed from the crooked refs, which lead to short tempers, which ultimately lead to any excuse to start a brawl. Pretty disappointed in BaYi to be honest. They didn't need to all gang up on a player.
On August 19 2011 06:07 Condor Hero wrote: This looks like both teams got on to it at the same time. At what point are so you biased against the Chinese team? It's unfortunate that the fans would throw stuff but that has nothing to do with the Chinese team.
This is not biased, there were people at the game who were commenting the Chinese team was pretty much hacking Georgetown every possession. Also, you can see the free throw disparity, overwhelmingly in favor of the Chinese team. How can that be possible in a competitive game? Duke played another Chinese team earlier, same issue with the foul disparity, it's just Duke is not the type of team that would retaliate with hard contact. So when Georgetown also started playing rough, that's when the fight broke out.
I can't determine what point you're trying to make about the free throw disparity. The chinese team is the one that took 57 free throws which means they were the ones getting fouled a ton.
edit: misread
Or the ref is being a piece of shit, and if the ref is being a dick might as well actually start earning those fowls instead of getting called on fowls that you didn't actually do.
On August 19 2011 06:17 Medrea wrote: From a lot of peoples personal perspective. The refs were trying to practically hand the game to the Chinese via fouls.
that does not in the slightest surprise me. chinese ppl man... so bad.
hey prease be nice
but as a chinese person I feel really ashamed that a professional team of ours would do this, esp. to a foreign team...white kids during gym class gonna give me loads of shit during the basketball unit now haha
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
The shoving matches (there was more than one if you read the articles) occurred due to the refs letting the Chinese team getting away with murder (metaphorically speaking) while calling Georgetown for touch (ticky tack as american slang would say) fouls. Why spread false information about the refs NOT having role in this incident when they clearly did? It is literally impossible to have the foul discrepancy involved in this game with impartial refs, there fore the refs indeed had a role in this incident.
You watched the game?
You read my post? There are multiple eyewitness accounts of the game. Two of the more prominent ones )as in being referenced by news sites) were on Washington Post (International Newspaper with a reporter AT the game to cover the goodwill tour) and a Georgetown Hoya's forum (Made by an admittedly biased alumnus at the game). Next time spend more than one second coming up with your "witty" reply and do a bit of background research before posting.
After all who do you think Gene Wang is? Mike Wise? (For reference, Wise is a long time and well established WP (and sport talk radio host as of late) writer who deiced it would be a good idea to put forward some outlandish (but extremely juicy) rumor out of left field and watch how the media reacted. Of course Wise got a great laugh out of the joke until the public started to call for his head).
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
The shoving matches (there was more than one if you read the articles) occurred due to the refs letting the Chinese team getting away with murder (metaphorically speaking) while calling Georgetown for touch (ticky tack as american slang would say) fouls. Why spread false information about the refs NOT having role in this incident when they clearly did? It is literally impossible to have the foul discrepancy involved in this game with impartial refs, there fore the refs indeed had a role in this incident.
The ref didn't start the brawl directly. That's what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. No doubt this is disgraceful but don't pretend the collee players were not involved in starting the fight.
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
The shoving matches (there was more than one if you read the articles) occurred due to the refs letting the Chinese team getting away with murder (metaphorically speaking) while calling Georgetown for touch (ticky tack as american slang would say) fouls. Why spread false information about the refs NOT having role in this incident when they clearly did? It is literally impossible to have the foul discrepancy involved in this game with impartial refs, there fore the refs indeed had a role in this incident.
The ref didn't start the brawl directly. That's what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. No doubt this is disgraceful but don't pretend the collee players were not involved in starting the fight.
For someone saying "Don't put words in my mouth" you sure put a lot in mine. Feel free to point out where in my statement I absolve the players of their actions and blamed it on the refs alone. Oh wait that never happened, however, I did say the refs had a clear and definite role in this brawl and to dismiss that is ignorant.
Some of the nationality pride here is sad. Saw the entire footage of the game, completely started by the Chinese team imo and many others who saw all the footage.
I expect a lot more from these two teams... this rarely even happens in NCAA games... why would it happen when you are in another country? Seriously? Show some respect for the fucking game...
It's a bit easy to criticize the behaviour of the players who were abroad, in an hostile environment, and probably in a very physical, maybe violent, game.
On August 19 2011 15:15 Empyrean wrote: This is very embarrassing :/
It's even more embarrassing that Youtube links China Basketball directly to the brawl.
It's the first page of youtube videos.
I really liked watching the USA vs China olympics basketball game though. I didn't know Chinese players would get this aggressive from a "friendly" sports game.
On August 19 2011 15:36 Silentness wrote: I really liked watching the USA vs China olympics basketball game though. I didn't know Chinese players would get this aggressive from a "friendly" sports game.
Well, there's probably a large difference between the best players who make the Olympic team and can actually play the game, and these kinds of thugs who treat it like something else. I mean, they got 57 FTs and they still only had 64pts? They probably have 0 talent, so they make up for it with being rough. For reference http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=342027&title=basketball-coaching
I'm equally embarrassed by Georgetown. Every single person that was part of the fight for Georgetown should be suspended. Even when provoked, a brawl on a basketball court is absolutely no way to represent the entire country. Shame on them for not being the better men.
I don't know anything about Chinese basketball regulations so I leave comment on that to Empyrean.
I've reconsidered my opinion Jibba. At first I only saw
freshman forward Moses Ayegba, who was wearing a brace on his right leg, limped onto the court with a chair in his right hand.
but after further reading I think I missed the overall picture, pointing towards the need to protect themselves.
I don't want to believe the fight was instigated solely by the Chinese players but what can you do, the only information points to it.
I think people don't understand the culture of China.
Chinese people are very concerned with "face" and they obviously wanted to win that game and show everyone "hurr durr we are China we are better than America even at a game that is so popular in the US". Reruns of sports on chinese tv are always games that china won, or got silver.
I'm guessing that some political big shots said beforehand to the refs that no matter what the Chinese are going to win, probably a lot of bribes and illegal betting involved... would not surprise me in the least.
The chinese attitude is "dude what the fuck man let us win this game it's a friendly game on our home court anyway..." but the American attitude is "fairness and sportsmanship above all else" and that is where the conflict originated.
On August 19 2011 15:53 Probe1 wrote: I'm equally embarrassed by Georgetown. Every single person that was part of the fight for Georgetown should be suspended. Even when provoked, a brawl on a basketball court is absolutely no way to represent the entire country. Shame on them for not being the better men.
I don't know anything about Chinese basketball regulations so I leave comment on that to Empyrean.
I've reconsidered my opinion Jibba. At first I only saw
freshman forward Moses Ayegba, who was wearing a brace on his right leg, limped onto the court with a chair in his right hand.
but after further reading I think I missed the overall picture, pointing towards the need to protect themselves.
I don't want to believe the fight was instigated solely by the Chinese players but what can you do, the only information points to it.
- -;; So if you're in a team game. And your teammates are being manhandled unfairly, you would decide to be the "bigger man" and do nothing?
Exactly how do you be the "bigger men" when the other side won't even listen, and will just fight....
EDIT: Ahhh, I just saw your edit. Here's mine.
No matter what the situation is, human beings should always try to be civil and instigate a non-violent way to solve an issue. But notice I said SHOULD. In this kind of situation, all u can do is protect the ones u love in any way possible, even if it does involve in people getting hurt and your country being shamed. While I do not commend the USA players for their reactions, I REALLY doubt that there were much options for them.
On August 19 2011 10:48 Jibba wrote: From the ESPN article:
The melee was the latest instance of on-court fighting by China, whose players have been fined tens of thousands of dollars by the world and Asian federations for scrapping with opponents.
I liked the end of the video with the Bayi player sitting on top of the GT player repeatedly punching him like an MMA match. I guess we should wait to see more of how the game developed, but with those calls I somehow doubt Bayi was playing fair. And drawing a John Thompson team into a fight? Doesn't seem normal.
On August 19 2011 10:47 Little Rage Box wrote: Bayi is very lucky that they were playing a team like Goergetown. Being a follower of College sports, there a great many more teams that would have literally stayed on the court and beat the shit outta everyone of those Chinese players. Regardless of what coaches could do.
Hell even in the Big East, I bet Syracuse and Pitt would have started using chairs too. Shame to see that really. But I guess this means that Georgetown won't be taking their summer trips to China anymore, Europe here they come.
Seriously. If that was Pitt or god forbid a Calipari team, that kid in the khakis would be eating through a tube tonight. I could see Demarcus Cousins chokeslamming someone.
Demarcus Cousins is in the NBA now.. lol and Georgetown usually is one of the more "ghetto" teams, so I think if they wanted to do something they would have, but they seemed to keep it cool like a team should. That's just me though.
Georgetown is one of the more "Ghetto" teams? I assume by that statement you consider Duke to be "ghetto" as well. Two of Georgetown's starters were heavily recruited by Duke as well. Please quit with idiotic generalizations or come back with the facts. You are jsut as bad as the CBS blogger who posted about "Georgetown Thuggery" only to backtrack when the video did support his unsubstantiated claims. Leave the shit posting to those who are actually paid for it. Thanks!
OT - "That's just me though" = Cuse fan (possibly other Big East rival) or simply ignorant. Haven't heard such ridiculous statements since the Hoya paranoia and I doubt you were even alive for that as I certainly wasn't. Although fun to see that it is still alive and well in some circles.
Duke is about the least "ghetto" team lol. I say this, because I have been to Georgetown many times, because I have a couple of friends that live there and no some of the old players, and they would talk shit and try and start fights all the time. Quit acting like you know a bunch of shit just because you read a blog. :s
On August 19 2011 15:53 Probe1 wrote: I'm equally embarrassed by Georgetown. Every single person that was part of the fight for Georgetown should be suspended. Even when provoked, a brawl on a basketball court is absolutely no way to represent the entire country. Shame on them for not being the better men.
I don't know anything about Chinese basketball regulations so I leave comment on that to Empyrean.
I've reconsidered my opinion Jibba. At first I only saw
freshman forward Moses Ayegba, who was wearing a brace on his right leg, limped onto the court with a chair in his right hand.
but after further reading I think I missed the overall picture, pointing towards the need to protect themselves.
I don't want to believe the fight was instigated solely by the Chinese players but what can you do, the only information points to it.
- -;; So if you're in a team game. And your teammates are being manhandled unfairly, you would decide to be the "bigger man" and do nothing?
Exactly how do you be the "bigger men" when the other side won't even listen, and will just fight....
EDIT: Ahhh, I just saw your edit. Here's mine.
No matter what the situation is, human beings should always try to be civil and instigate a non-violent way to solve an issue. But notice I said SHOULD. In this kind of situation, all u can do is protect the ones u love in any way possible, even if it does involve in people getting hurt and your country being shamed. While I do not commend the USA players for their reactions, I REALLY doubt that there were much options for them.
Not considering anything before the brawl began, the G.Town player threw the first punch. (look in pg 9 for a better video)
I think the best course of action would have been to just walk off after tensions were rising / dealing with terrible officiating.
Fucking amazing. Every single time a thread pops up re: China, there's this INSANE wave of Chinese nationalism that sweeps over it before even the first page fills up.
What, is the commie party paying you to defend their "honor" online?
On August 19 2011 16:23 orgolove wrote: Fucking amazing. Every single time a thread pops up re: China, there's this INSANE wave of Chinese nationalism that sweeps over it before even the first page fills up.
What, is the commie party paying you to defend their "honor" online?
You are pathetic.
I've noticed this too, pretty odd, I'd blame the fascination/obsession nerds have with asian culture (weeaboo!), but oh well, what can you do.
On August 19 2011 16:23 orgolove wrote: Fucking amazing. Every single time a thread pops up re: China, there's this INSANE wave of Chinese nationalism that sweeps over it before even the first page fills up.
What, is the commie party paying you to defend their "honor" online?
You are pathetic.
Who are you talking to? I'm Chinese, did I post something wrong? Lets not throw insults around without thinking please.
I'm also amazed you seem to find a "wave" of nationalism here. This is your typical "insert country thread and one or two posters go overboard". I've seen much worse in the Norwegian capital punishment thread than this.
On August 19 2011 16:23 orgolove wrote: Fucking amazing. Every single time a thread pops up re: China, there's this INSANE wave of Chinese nationalism that sweeps over it before even the first page fills up.
What, is the commie party paying you to defend their "honor" online?
You are pathetic.
what are you talking about? Team liquid? I looked at the first page and I didn't see anyone blindly being biased towards the Chinese.
Pathetic? Who are you talking to anyway? The folks posting on youtube comments? Those are always awful, and get on my nerves.
all I know is when I played sports we were always taught it was the second guy that got caught not the guy who started the fight and thats why you don't retaliate. this is embarrassing for both parties.
On August 19 2011 16:23 orgolove wrote: Fucking amazing. Every single time a thread pops up re: China, there's this INSANE wave of Chinese nationalism that sweeps over it before even the first page fills up.
What, is the commie party paying you to defend their "honor" online?
You are pathetic.
And there's a lot of Chinese people criticizing their own people. In fact, aside from the blatant racist posts, the harshest critics of the Chinese basketball players in this thread were Chinese.
On August 19 2011 16:23 orgolove wrote: Fucking amazing. Every single time a thread pops up re: China, there's this INSANE wave of Chinese nationalism that sweeps over it before even the first page fills up.
What, is the commie party paying you to defend their "honor" online?
You are pathetic.
YOU are pathetic. If you read carefully, there are a lot of chinese who criticize their own country in this thread. Hell, even I'm Chinese and I'm not surprised with the behaviour of the Bayi team. As someone above me posted already, keeping "face" is very important to them. I'm sure that the referee was corrupt as hell. And Chinese are more violent than the "western" people think of.
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
How is pointing out what is true racist? The team was all black people...the fact he thinks they're aggressive is his opinion, whether it's right or wrong or even justified, who are we to judge?
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
How is pointing out what is true racist? The team was all black people...the fact he thinks they're aggressive is his opinion, whether it's right or wrong or even justified, who are we to judge?
It's not racist to not the team are black , although you would have to call into question why someone is noting that. What is racist however is that he attributes traits of aggressiveness with all black people with no reason to believe it. He assumes that the american players instigated the fight not because of any evidence presented to him but merely because their skin is black.
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
The shoving matches (there was more than one if you read the articles) occurred due to the refs letting the Chinese team getting away with murder (metaphorically speaking) while calling Georgetown for touch (ticky tack as american slang would say) fouls. Why spread false information about the refs NOT having role in this incident when they clearly did? It is literally impossible to have the foul discrepancy involved in this game with impartial refs, there fore the refs indeed had a role in this incident.
The ref didn't start the brawl directly. That's what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. No doubt this is disgraceful but don't pretend the collee players were not involved in starting the fight.
For someone saying "Don't put words in my mouth" you sure put a lot in mine. Feel free to point out where in my statement I absolve the players of their actions and blamed it on the refs alone. Oh wait that never happened, however, I did say the refs had a clear and definite role in this brawl and to dismiss that is ignorant.
i never said the refs had nothing to do with it. all i said was that they weren't the direct cause, and that the american player had a role to play in the shoving match after an uncalled foul. the refs were biased as fuck - not a surprise in friendlies in china unfortunately, and it's disgraceful. the chinese players played with what they're given - you can't blame them for that (can't say much about how much they knew of the ref before the game). the fact is both sides played a role in starting the brawl and how it worked out - the OP is just biased and emotional based on what he saw from the refs, which is justifiable but also inaccurate. either way we're agreeing with each other but somehow this turned into a pissing match.
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
The shoving matches (there was more than one if you read the articles) occurred due to the refs letting the Chinese team getting away with murder (metaphorically speaking) while calling Georgetown for touch (ticky tack as american slang would say) fouls. Why spread false information about the refs NOT having role in this incident when they clearly did? It is literally impossible to have the foul discrepancy involved in this game with impartial refs, there fore the refs indeed had a role in this incident.
The ref didn't start the brawl directly. That's what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. No doubt this is disgraceful but don't pretend the collee players were not involved in starting the fight.
For someone saying "Don't put words in my mouth" you sure put a lot in mine. Feel free to point out where in my statement I absolve the players of their actions and blamed it on the refs alone. Oh wait that never happened, however, I did say the refs had a clear and definite role in this brawl and to dismiss that is ignorant.
i never said the refs had nothing to do with it. all i said was that they weren't the direct cause, and that the american player had a role to play in the shoving match after an uncalled foul. the refs were biased as fuck - not a surprise in friendlies in china unfortunately, and it's disgraceful. the chinese players played with what they're given - you can't blame them for that (can't say much about how much they knew of the ref before the game). the fact is both sides played a role in starting the brawl and how it worked out - the OP is just biased and emotional based on what he saw from the refs, which is justifiable but also inaccurate. either way we're agreeing with each other but somehow this turned into a pissing match.
It has nothing to do with it being a pissing match, it has everything to do with the order that things occurred in. The referees decided to officiate the game in a biased, even "crooked" way. Whether or not the Chinese players initially knew this would happen or not they very obviously quickly began to abuse this and basically began physically abusing the G.Town players, they had no recourse throughout this. Appealing to the referees obviously did not help, all the while they were being called for "tickey-tack" touch fouls. At this point the officiating isn't going to change and they are being assaulted, they can either walk off the court or continue to get the shit beat out of them and potentially lose while this is happening due to the refs. Or they could show they weren't going to be pushed around anymore.
Am I saying that without a doubt was the correct decision? Not really, but it's not like G.Town was just going to walk off the court, the G.Town player simply wanted the Chinese players to know that they weren't going to be manhandled anymore and how do they respond? By swinging and chucking chairs and other various metal objects. The initial G.Town players is not without blame, but he was in an incredibly difficult situation, most (not sure about all) other G.Town players who went into the brawl, or tried to were attempting to defend downed teammates getting swarmed, stomped and swung at including being swung at with metal objects and it wasn't just the Chinese players doing it, but some of the training staff and fans (maybe not directly, but they at the very least ended up throwing stuff at the players). Yes, everyone is at fault to an extent, but the Chinese players are definitely more at fault for the occurrence of this and the way they responded was a thousand times worse and at it's base this never would've happened if not for the way the referees officiated the game.
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
The shoving matches (there was more than one if you read the articles) occurred due to the refs letting the Chinese team getting away with murder (metaphorically speaking) while calling Georgetown for touch (ticky tack as american slang would say) fouls. Why spread false information about the refs NOT having role in this incident when they clearly did? It is literally impossible to have the foul discrepancy involved in this game with impartial refs, there fore the refs indeed had a role in this incident.
The ref didn't start the brawl directly. That's what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. No doubt this is disgraceful but don't pretend the collee players were not involved in starting the fight.
For someone saying "Don't put words in my mouth" you sure put a lot in mine. Feel free to point out where in my statement I absolve the players of their actions and blamed it on the refs alone. Oh wait that never happened, however, I did say the refs had a clear and definite role in this brawl and to dismiss that is ignorant.
i never said the refs had nothing to do with it. all i said was that they weren't the direct cause, and that the american player had a role to play in the shoving match after an uncalled foul. the refs were biased as fuck - not a surprise in friendlies in china unfortunately, and it's disgraceful. the chinese players played with what they're given - you can't blame them for that (can't say much about how much they knew of the ref before the game). the fact is both sides played a role in starting the brawl and how it worked out - the OP is just biased and emotional based on what he saw from the refs, which is justifiable but also inaccurate. either way we're agreeing with each other but somehow this turned into a pissing match.
It has nothing to do with it being a pissing match, it has everything to do with the order that things occurred in. The referees decided to officiate the game in a biased, even "crooked" way. Whether or not the Chinese players initially knew this would happen or not they very obviously quickly began to abuse this and basically began physically abusing the G.Town players, they had no recourse throughout this. Appealing to the referees obviously did not help, all the while they were being called for "tickey-tack" touch fouls. At this point the officiating isn't going to change and they are being assaulted, they can either walk off the court or continue to get the shit beat out of them and potentially lose while this is happening due to the refs. Or they could show they weren't going to be pushed around anymore.
Am I saying that without a doubt was the correct decision? Not really, but it's not like G.Town was just going to walk off the court, the G.Town player simply wanted the Chinese players to know that they weren't going to be manhandled anymore and how do they respond? By swinging and chucking chairs and other various metal objects. The initial G.Town players is not without blame, but he was in an incredibly difficult situation, most (not sure about all) other G.Town players who went into the brawl, or tried to were attempting to defend downed teammates getting swarmed, stomped and swung at including being swung at with metal objects and it wasn't just the Chinese players doing it, but some of the training staff and fans (maybe not directly, but they at the very least ended up throwing stuff at the players). Yes, everyone is at fault to an extent, but the Chinese players are definitely more at fault for the occurrence of this and the way they responded was a thousand times worse and at it's base this never would've happened if not for the way the referees officiated the game.
this is exactly how i think. chinese refs at fault, players played along, both teams initiated and escalated the fight and are at fault. re: pissing match, i was referring to bloodninja and i, not this brawl.
Chinese referees are known to be fairly biased, at least in terms of soccer. From what I believe it has to do with a fair amount of match-fixing in the country due to gambling.
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
How is pointing out what is true racist? The team was all black people...the fact he thinks they're aggressive is his opinion, whether it's right or wrong or even justified, who are we to judge?
It's not racist to not the team are black , although you would have to call into question why someone is noting that. What is racist however is that he attributes traits of aggressiveness with all black people with no reason to believe it. He assumes that the american players instigated the fight not because of any evidence presented to him but merely because their skin is black.
That is why he is called a racist and a bigot.
Well in his personal experience he says the majority of black people he's encountered have been more aggressive. Probably something to do with the fact that they're high school kids, not black though.
lol China team had like 20 subs just waiting for this to happen. Go go unsportsmanlike conduct.
Just like the last time we sent a college team there the reffing was biased. Of course after 30 minutes of commie bs like that the players will start to get anxious and angry.
On August 19 2011 12:03 Daozzt wrote: I'd be mad too if my team shot 57 free throws and scored 64 points total by the 4th quarter.
But seriously, what a disgrace. Chinese professional team starting a fight with a young college team. That free throw disparity would only happen if your team consisted of five Dwayne Wades, and the three refs on the court were Dick Bavetta and his two twin brothers. You're supposed to be angry when the refs are rigging the game AGAINST you, not FOR you.
thought the brawl started when a shoving match between two players occurred, not directly because of the refs. why spread more misinformation?
though as a follower of chinese soccer, this shit doesn't surprise me one bit. things like this make me embarrassed to be a supporter. not sure how so many "goodwill" games turn out this way when a chinese team is involved.
The shoving matches (there was more than one if you read the articles) occurred due to the refs letting the Chinese team getting away with murder (metaphorically speaking) while calling Georgetown for touch (ticky tack as american slang would say) fouls. Why spread false information about the refs NOT having role in this incident when they clearly did? It is literally impossible to have the foul discrepancy involved in this game with impartial refs, there fore the refs indeed had a role in this incident.
The ref didn't start the brawl directly. That's what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. No doubt this is disgraceful but don't pretend the collee players were not involved in starting the fight.
For someone saying "Don't put words in my mouth" you sure put a lot in mine. Feel free to point out where in my statement I absolve the players of their actions and blamed it on the refs alone. Oh wait that never happened, however, I did say the refs had a clear and definite role in this brawl and to dismiss that is ignorant.
i never said the refs had nothing to do with it. all i said was that they weren't the direct cause, and that the american player had a role to play in the shoving match after an uncalled foul. the refs were biased as fuck - not a surprise in friendlies in china unfortunately, and it's disgraceful. the chinese players played with what they're given - you can't blame them for that (can't say much about how much they knew of the ref before the game). the fact is both sides played a role in starting the brawl and how it worked out - the OP is just biased and emotional based on what he saw from the refs, which is justifiable but also inaccurate. either way we're agreeing with each other but somehow this turned into a pissing match.
It has nothing to do with it being a pissing match, it has everything to do with the order that things occurred in. The referees decided to officiate the game in a biased, even "crooked" way. Whether or not the Chinese players initially knew this would happen or not they very obviously quickly began to abuse this and basically began physically abusing the G.Town players, they had no recourse throughout this. Appealing to the referees obviously did not help, all the while they were being called for "tickey-tack" touch fouls. At this point the officiating isn't going to change and they are being assaulted, they can either walk off the court or continue to get the shit beat out of them and potentially lose while this is happening due to the refs. Or they could show they weren't going to be pushed around anymore.
Am I saying that without a doubt was the correct decision? Not really, but it's not like G.Town was just going to walk off the court, the G.Town player simply wanted the Chinese players to know that they weren't going to be manhandled anymore and how do they respond? By swinging and chucking chairs and other various metal objects. The initial G.Town players is not without blame, but he was in an incredibly difficult situation, most (not sure about all) other G.Town players who went into the brawl, or tried to were attempting to defend downed teammates getting swarmed, stomped and swung at including being swung at with metal objects and it wasn't just the Chinese players doing it, but some of the training staff and fans (maybe not directly, but they at the very least ended up throwing stuff at the players). Yes, everyone is at fault to an extent, but the Chinese players are definitely more at fault for the occurrence of this and the way they responded was a thousand times worse and at it's base this never would've happened if not for the way the referees officiated the game.
this is exactly how i think. chinese refs at fault, players played along, both teams initiated and escalated the fight and are at fault. re: pissing match, i was referring to bloodninja and i, not this brawl.
While it's true that both teams had a part in it one of my main points which I really stand by is; The Chinese players escalated the fight much quicker than G.Town did and started using metal objects, including chairs as weapon and stomped on G.Town players they vastly outnumbered. Now, yes the start of the situation could be pointed any of three ways but I think it's pretty clear that in this situation the Chinese team reacted much more poorly than the G.Town players, many of whom were only trying to save team mates who were on the ground getting stomped by four or five people (Including training staff? I'm not 100% sure, but if it did..wow. If not then civilians) either way they got right out of there as soon as they had all their players while it looked like the Chinese players were ready to fight as long as need be.
I think 95% of this shit wouldn't of happened if they weren't playing in their country but that being said they need to realize they aren't playing another Chinese team, that they are playing a team from another country and what they do directly reflects upon them as an entire country. It's no wonder the new sites censored this as fast as they could.
I'm not necessarily saying that you are saying the Chinese players didn't flip out a million times worse either, just illustrating my point.
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
How is pointing out what is true racist? The team was all black people...the fact he thinks they're aggressive is his opinion, whether it's right or wrong or even justified, who are we to judge?
It's not racist to not the team are black , although you would have to call into question why someone is noting that. What is racist however is that he attributes traits of aggressiveness with all black people with no reason to believe it. He assumes that the american players instigated the fight not because of any evidence presented to him but merely because their skin is black.
That is why he is called a racist and a bigot.
Well in his personal experience he says the majority of black people he's encountered have been more aggressive. Probably something to do with the fact that they're high school kids, not black though.
can't help but think that the Chinese would be much less willing to engage in a fight had the American team been white.
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was + Show Spoiler +
Black
. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
It appears that the tour will continue and Georgetown will play out its games in China which basically is composed of the 4 day basketball festival (Sponsored (entirely?) by Nike) in Shanghai that starts tomorrow. As such at this moment Georgetown is scheduled to play the same Chinese team again on Sunday.
They better find a replacement team because if those two teams have to play each other again I cant imagine it going well.
On August 20 2011 02:02 BloodNinja wrote: Fun update to this thread:
It appears that the tour will continue and Georgetown will play out its games in China which basically is composed of the 4 day basketball festival (Sponsored (entirely?) by Nike) in Shanghai that starts tomorrow. As such at this moment Georgetown is scheduled to play the same Chinese team again on Sunday.
They better find a replacement team because if those two teams have to play each other again I cant imagine it going well.
Apparently the two teams met up and reconciled before the GT team flew out to Shanghai. They even exchanged souvenirs and gifts.. we'll see how the game goes on Sunday x_x
Regardless of who's fault it was, China as the host country, should have looked out for the foreign team. Security should have broken it up right away, and stopped fans from the kind of harassment that was taking place. The chinese refusing to give them a police escort to top it all off is just ridiculous.
I don't get all of the China hate. It looked to me like the player from Georgetown got beat on after he took a swing at the Chinese player. Did I see it wrong?
On August 20 2011 04:47 LegendaryZ wrote: I don't get all of the China hate. It looked to me like the player from Georgetown got beat on after he took a swing at the Chinese player. Did I see it wrong?
On August 20 2011 04:47 LegendaryZ wrote: I don't get all of the China hate. It looked to me like the player from Georgetown got beat on after he took a swing at the Chinese player. Did I see it wrong?
Vid from ABCnews clearly shows what caused the fire.
Watch please.
That's the same video I saw and it's clear that the Gerogetown player took a swing at the Chinese player after the initial contact, which is when the Chinese player turned around and shoved him.
On August 20 2011 02:02 BloodNinja wrote: Fun update to this thread:
It appears that the tour will continue and Georgetown will play out its games in China which basically is composed of the 4 day basketball festival (Sponsored (entirely?) by Nike) in Shanghai that starts tomorrow. As such at this moment Georgetown is scheduled to play the same Chinese team again on Sunday.
They better find a replacement team because if those two teams have to play each other again I cant imagine it going well.
Apparently the two teams met up and reconciled before the GT team flew out to Shanghai. They even exchanged souvenirs and gifts.. we'll see how the game goes on Sunday x_x
Looked like a regular hockey game to me. Naah seriously that player from Georgetown University threw the first (100% intended) shot, even tho it seems he missed. But it's pretty f*cked up they didn't get a police escort after the game.
On August 20 2011 04:47 LegendaryZ wrote: I don't get all of the China hate. It looked to me like the player from Georgetown got beat on after he took a swing at the Chinese player. Did I see it wrong?
Vid from ABCnews clearly shows what caused the fire.
Watch please.
That's the same video I saw and it's clear that the Gerogetown player took a swing at the Chinese player after the initial contact, which is when the Chinese player turned around and shoved him.
basketball is so soft... the american guy took a swing at the chinese guy and wasn't expecting to fight? then the Chinese guys grab chairs at the end... like honestly really? they couldnt have just let them fight 1on1 or something?
anyone miss the fact that it was tied 64 -64, but bayi had 57 freethrows? really? Even if you assume .7 ft percentage that means they only had 10 or 12 baskets after 3+ quarters.
keep in mind this is team has military ties - and the military in china is extremely nationalistic and anti american. not defending georgetown or anythin, but you can bet that the refs and security could have prevented this or at least tried to stop it. pro team at home in China baiting kids that they cant beat fairly at basketball. this is why no one respects China domestic pro leagues, the soccer is all fixed and the basketball is all fights.
i lived in China before and I can say that the basketball there is pretty scrappy and physical. What one team considered cheap might have been considered just hard play. In most pro leagues this situation gets diffused by referees. But in China getting a fair ref is not common, cant tell you how many bs refs we got when we played soccer who would call ridiculous offsides and penalties
While it's true that both teams had a part in it one of my main points which I really stand by is; The Chinese players escalated the fight much quicker than G.Town did and started using metal objects, including chairs as weapon and stomped on G.Town players they vastly outnumbered. Now, yes the start of the situation could be pointed any of three ways
Are you kidding me? It is very much 100% clear who started this, the chinese players did not seem interested in any kind of brawl, they simply fought for the ball and began running back to their positions when the GTown player took a swing at the chinese player and they noticed it.
Yes the chinese players took it too far with the objects but you are simply trying a bit too hard to portray the american team as innocent, you saying "could be pointed any of the three ways" just isent true and you come across as incredibly biased.
but I think it's pretty clear that in this situation the Chinese team reacted much more poorly than the G.Town players
We should be able to agree that they both acted poorly, the american team did so by starting it all, the chinese team by taking it further than it ever should have gone.
You arent a bad person, your nationality is just clouding your judgement, if someone swung at you like that, you would get pretty pissed and do pretty much the same thing as the chinese players did, anyone would.
On August 20 2011 04:47 LegendaryZ wrote: I don't get all of the China hate. It looked to me like the player from Georgetown got beat on after he took a swing at the Chinese player. Did I see it wrong?
Vid from ABCnews clearly shows what caused the fire.
Watch please.
That's the same video I saw and it's clear that the Gerogetown player took a swing at the Chinese player after the initial contact, which is when the Chinese player turned around and shoved him.
Rather, watch for their explanation as to why it led into such a situation.
There is a clear foul from the chinese player on the GT player directly in front of the ref, ref doesn't call it, there is a game where there was 57 freethrows call on GT and only 15 on the home team. Ref not calling fouls chinese players take advange of that and play rough GT player gets sicks of that after the GT player gets pushed mid jump he pushes that player back at which time the brawl happens.
While it's true that both teams had a part in it one of my main points which I really stand by is; The Chinese players escalated the fight much quicker than G.Town did and started using metal objects, including chairs as weapon and stomped on G.Town players they vastly outnumbered. Now, yes the start of the situation could be pointed any of three ways
Are you kidding me? It is very much 100% clear who started this, the chinese players did not seem interested in any kind of brawl, they simply fought for the ball and began running back to their positions when the GTown player took a swing at the chinese player and they noticed it.
Yes the chinese players took it too far with the objects but you are simply trying a bit too hard to portray the american team as innocent, you saying "could be pointed any of the three ways" just isent true and you come across as incredibly biased.
but I think it's pretty clear that in this situation the Chinese team reacted much more poorly than the G.Town players
We should be able to agree that they both acted poorly, the american team did so by starting it all, the chinese team by taking it further than it ever should have gone.
You arent a bad person, your nationality is just clouding your judgement, if someone swung at you like that, you would get pretty pissed and do pretty much the same thing as the chinese players did, anyone would.
The Chinese players and ref are instigators the ref is crooked 57 freethrows against GT and 15 against home team and Chinese players taking advantage of that playing rough and getting away with metaphorical murder, http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=342027&title=basketball-coaching only pisses off the Gt players more, and this is reacting to someone pushing you by ganging up on him and beating him to the ground as he tries to get away as soon as he started to try to get away they should have stopped, at that point it's less like a fight and more like assault. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201229 =p clear instigators are punished more then the one who throws the first punch.
On August 20 2011 05:54 Tyree wrote: You arent a bad person, your nationality is just clouding your judgement, if someone swung at you like that, you would get pretty pissed and do pretty much the same thing as the chinese players did, anyone would.
Go back and read all the chinese people in this thread saying that the chinese team and refs are in the wrong. Its not a nationality thing
On August 19 2011 06:16 S.O.L.I.D. wrote: YEAH AMERICA GET EM
But seriously that's BS, 57 FTs to 15? You've gotta be joking me. I don't really know if you can call the OP biased; if you look at the video the Chinese players run off the bench and basically maul one player, and then chase another one to the sidelines and start beating on him. That's just thuggish and doesn't belong in the sport. Can't imagine any colleges are going to want to go play there in the future after this shit.
If this was between two NBA teams, the first thing I think of is not "holy shit, refs are being bought" I would think "holy shit one team played really rough and got a lot of fouls called..." but I guess once it's another country involved, American pride overtakes common sense right?
It's not common sense being overtaken; there is absolutely no way that there would be a 40 free throw disparity without bias on behalf of the refs. If you followed basketball all you'd realize that. Use YOUR common sense, please.
I find it ridiculous how many people keep claiming how "clear" something is from viewing the videos, when the only thing clear is that everyone who views it has a different opinion of what "really" started the fight. Nothing wrong with giving opinions and having a discussion about what we thought happened, but let's try to avoid countering each other's posts by claiming something is "clear" when it isn't.
With that said, my opinion is that, based on what I've read and seen, it looks like:
1. A lopsided game was being called by the refs in favor of the Chinese team, which is not surprising to me considering how much national pride plays into a situation like this. 2. The Chinese team was playing very physically, which is not surprising since they appeared to be getting outplayed by the Georgetown team (close game despite ridiculous FT disparity) 2. The Georgetown team got frustrated with how lopsided the game was, which is not surprising because of the lopsided nature of the game and the physical play of the Chinese team 3. There was a looseball situation where one of the Georgetown players got bumped by a Chinese player as he was making a pass, which I think is something that happens all the time in looseball situations and not sufficient to justify a shove. 4. The Georgetown player took exception to what he felt was unnecessary and excessive contact and shoved the Chinese player who bumped him, which was probably exacerbated by the lopsidedness of the refereeing and the amount of physical play the Chinese team had been getting away with earlier. 5. The Chinese player who was shoved and a nearby teammate then reacted to the shove by shoving the Georgetown player. 6. Georgetown players jumped in to try to break up the shoving match, as is typical in American basketball (barring a few exceptions, i.e. DET-IND). The Chinese players saw it as a fight starting, and jumped in attacking Georgetown players in an excessive manner. 7. Many Chinese spectators only made things worse by attacking the Georgetown players from the stands by throwing things at them.
I think there's fault on the part of the refs for calling a lopsided game, and thus creating a tension-filled, physical and frustrated environment. I think there's fault on the Georgetown player for shoving the Chinese player after the bump, even though you could argue he had some justification due to the reffing and physical play by the Chinese team, and likely had no idea it would lead to the reaction he got from the Chinese team. I think there's a LOT of fault on the Chinese team for reacting to the shoving match by fighting instead of trying to break it up, and fighting in a very excessive manner, despite being a team of adults playing against college students and being the hosting team in an exhibition game that was supposed to promote good will between the US and China. For all of the talk about national pride, the Chinese team knew that it was representing its country and did so terribly.
I think it's very unfortunate that a lot of people are taking this situation as an excuse to attack or criticize Chinese people as a nationality and/or a race. I'm certain that most Chinese people deplore what the Chinese team did in this situation, and would not have reacted the same way. This was a very particular group of Chinese people, i.e. military people playing a physical sport in a game where national pride was at stake. The potential for some stupid testosterone-induced ugliness to occur was very high. Even if you include the violent fans and biased referees, that group is not indicative of all Chinese people, or even all Chinese people in China.
On August 20 2011 06:13 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I find it ridiculous how many people keep claiming how "clear" something is from viewing the videos, when the only thing clear is that everyone who views it has a different opinion of what "really" started the fight. Nothing wrong with giving opinions and having a discussion about what we thought happened, but let's try to avoid countering each other's posts by claiming something is "clear" when it isn't.
With that said, my opinion is that, based on what I've read and seen, it looks like:
1. A lopsided game was being called by the refs in favor of the Chinese team, which is not surprising to me considering how much national pride plays into a situation like this. 2. The Chinese team was playing very physically, which is not surprising since they appeared to be getting outplayed by the Georgetown team (close game despite ridiculous FT disparity) 2. The Georgetown team got frustrated with how lopsided the game was, which is not surprising because of the lopsided nature of the game and the physical play of the Chinese team 3. There was a looseball situation where one of the Georgetown players got bumped by a Chinese player as he was making a pass, which I think is something that happens all the time in looseball situations and not sufficient to justify a shove. 4. The Georgetown player took exception to what he felt was unnecessary and excessive contact and shoved the Chinese player who bumped him, which was probably exacerbated by the lopsidedness of the refereeing and the amount of physical play the Chinese team had been getting away with earlier. 5. The Chinese player who was shoved and a nearby teammate then reacted to the shove by shoving the Georgetown player. 6. Georgetown players jumped in to try to break up the shoving match, as is typical in American basketball (barring a few exceptions, i.e. DET-IND). The Chinese players saw it as a fight starting, and jumped in attacking Georgetown players in an excessive manner. 7. Many Chinese spectators only made things worse by attacking the Georgetown players from the stands by throwing things at them.
I think there's fault on the part of the refs for calling a lopsided game, and thus creating a tension-filled, physical and frustrated environment. I think there's fault on the Georgetown player for shoving the Chinese player after the bump, even though you could argue he had some justification due to the reffing and physical play by the Chinese team, and likely had no idea it would lead to the reaction he got from the Chinese team. I think there's a LOT of fault on the Chinese team for reacting to the shoving match by fighting instead of trying to break it up, and fighting in a very excessive manner, despite being a team of adults playing against college students and being the hosting team in an exhibition game that was supposed to promote good will between the US and China. For all of the talk about national pride, the Chinese team knew that it was representing its country and did so terribly.
I think it's very unfortunate that a lot of people are taking this situation as an excuse to attack or criticize Chinese people as a nationality and/or a race. I'm certain that most Chinese people deplore what the Chinese team did in this situation, and would not have reacted the same way. This was a very particular group of Chinese people, i.e. military people playing a physical sport in a game where national pride was at stake. The potential for some stupid testosterone-induced ugliness to occur was very high. Even if you include the violent fans and biased referees, that group is not indicative of all Chinese people, or even all Chinese people in China.
I pretty much agree with your post except for the parts I bolded. That seemed a lot more like a punch than a shove from the Georgetown player and also, since when are people in college not adults?
On August 20 2011 06:13 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I find it ridiculous how many people keep claiming how "clear" something is from viewing the videos, when the only thing clear is that everyone who views it has a different opinion of what "really" started the fight. Nothing wrong with giving opinions and having a discussion about what we thought happened, but let's try to avoid countering each other's posts by claiming something is "clear" when it isn't.
With that said, my opinion is that, based on what I've read and seen, it looks like:
1. A lopsided game was being called by the refs in favor of the Chinese team, which is not surprising to me considering how much national pride plays into a situation like this. 2. The Chinese team was playing very physically, which is not surprising since they appeared to be getting outplayed by the Georgetown team (close game despite ridiculous FT disparity) 2. The Georgetown team got frustrated with how lopsided the game was, which is not surprising because of the lopsided nature of the game and the physical play of the Chinese team 3. There was a looseball situation where one of the Georgetown players got bumped by a Chinese player as he was making a pass, which I think is something that happens all the time in looseball situations and not sufficient to justify a shove. 4. The Georgetown player took exception to what he felt was unnecessary and excessive contact and shoved the Chinese player who bumped him, which was probably exacerbated by the lopsidedness of the refereeing and the amount of physical play the Chinese team had been getting away with earlier. 5. The Chinese player who was shoved and a nearby teammate then reacted to the shove by shoving the Georgetown player. 6. Georgetown players jumped in to try to break up the shoving match, as is typical in American basketball (barring a few exceptions, i.e. DET-IND). The Chinese players saw it as a fight starting, and jumped in attacking Georgetown players in an excessive manner. 7. Many Chinese spectators only made things worse by attacking the Georgetown players from the stands by throwing things at them.
I think there's fault on the part of the refs for calling a lopsided game, and thus creating a tension-filled, physical and frustrated environment. I think there's fault on the Georgetown player for shoving the Chinese player after the bump, even though you could argue he had some justification due to the reffing and physical play by the Chinese team, and likely had no idea it would lead to the reaction he got from the Chinese team. I think there's a LOT of fault on the Chinese team for reacting to the shoving match by fighting instead of trying to break it up, and fighting in a very excessive manner, despite being a team of adults playing against college students and being the hosting team in an exhibition game that was supposed to promote good will between the US and China. For all of the talk about national pride, the Chinese team knew that it was representing its country and did so terribly.
I think it's very unfortunate that a lot of people are taking this situation as an excuse to attack or criticize Chinese people as a nationality and/or a race. I'm certain that most Chinese people deplore what the Chinese team did in this situation, and would not have reacted the same way. This was a very particular group of Chinese people, i.e. military people playing a physical sport in a game where national pride was at stake. The potential for some stupid testosterone-induced ugliness to occur was very high. Even if you include the violent fans and biased referees, that group is not indicative of all Chinese people, or even all Chinese people in China.
I pretty much agree with your post except for the parts I bolded. That seemed a lot more like a punch than a shove from the Georgetown player and also, since when are people in college not adults?
To me it looked very much like a shove (not uncommon in basketball when a player gets frustrated, the player who shoves usually gets a Technical Foul). And it looked like he missed shoving as well since the Chinese player was running to play defense. Then obviously the Chinese player shoved back in the American's face! Along with a nearby teammate of the Chinese player shoved.
And there is VERY much a mental difference between adults and College Students; College Students are still growing mentally and maturely. Some progress further than others faster. But there you have it.
On August 20 2011 05:54 Tyree wrote: Are you kidding me? It is very much 100% clear who started this, the chinese players did not seem interested in any kind of brawl, they simply fought for the ball and began running back to their positions when the GTown player took a swing at the chinese player and they noticed it.
the bayi player body checked the GT player. that's a guaranteed foul, if not a flagrant foul. that kind of contact is not normal in a basketball game. and the ref doesn't do shit about it.
therefore, it's not clear who started the brawl.
it's only clear that the bayi players and staff made it much worse, especially when they decide to chase down players who are clearly running away.
it's also not 57 fouls, it's 57 free throws.
57 fouls would mean that they could only field 2 players.
On August 20 2011 06:13 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I find it ridiculous how many people keep claiming how "clear" something is from viewing the videos, when the only thing clear is that everyone who views it has a different opinion of what "really" started the fight. Nothing wrong with giving opinions and having a discussion about what we thought happened, but let's try to avoid countering each other's posts by claiming something is "clear" when it isn't.
With that said, my opinion is that, based on what I've read and seen, it looks like:
1. A lopsided game was being called by the refs in favor of the Chinese team, which is not surprising to me considering how much national pride plays into a situation like this. 2. The Chinese team was playing very physically, which is not surprising since they appeared to be getting outplayed by the Georgetown team (close game despite ridiculous FT disparity) 2. The Georgetown team got frustrated with how lopsided the game was, which is not surprising because of the lopsided nature of the game and the physical play of the Chinese team 3. There was a looseball situation where one of the Georgetown players got bumped by a Chinese player as he was making a pass, which I think is something that happens all the time in looseball situations and not sufficient to justify a shove. 4. The Georgetown player took exception to what he felt was unnecessary and excessive contact and shoved the Chinese player who bumped him, which was probably exacerbated by the lopsidedness of the refereeing and the amount of physical play the Chinese team had been getting away with earlier. 5. The Chinese player who was shoved and a nearby teammate then reacted to the shove by shoving the Georgetown player. 6. Georgetown players jumped in to try to break up the shoving match, as is typical in American basketball (barring a few exceptions, i.e. DET-IND). The Chinese players saw it as a fight starting, and jumped in attacking Georgetown players in an excessive manner. 7. Many Chinese spectators only made things worse by attacking the Georgetown players from the stands by throwing things at them.
I think there's fault on the part of the refs for calling a lopsided game, and thus creating a tension-filled, physical and frustrated environment. I think there's fault on the Georgetown player for shoving the Chinese player after the bump, even though you could argue he had some justification due to the reffing and physical play by the Chinese team, and likely had no idea it would lead to the reaction he got from the Chinese team. I think there's a LOT of fault on the Chinese team for reacting to the shoving match by fighting instead of trying to break it up, and fighting in a very excessive manner, despite being a team of adults playing against college students and being the hosting team in an exhibition game that was supposed to promote good will between the US and China. For all of the talk about national pride, the Chinese team knew that it was representing its country and did so terribly.
I think it's very unfortunate that a lot of people are taking this situation as an excuse to attack or criticize Chinese people as a nationality and/or a race. I'm certain that most Chinese people deplore what the Chinese team did in this situation, and would not have reacted the same way. This was a very particular group of Chinese people, i.e. military people playing a physical sport in a game where national pride was at stake. The potential for some stupid testosterone-induced ugliness to occur was very high. Even if you include the violent fans and biased referees, that group is not indicative of all Chinese people, or even all Chinese people in China.
I pretty much agree with your post except for the parts I bolded. That seemed a lot more like a punch than a shove from the Georgetown player and also, since when are people in college not adults?
They're still very young and naive. There will always be a few exceptions to every rule, but in many cases. -_-
On August 20 2011 05:54 Tyree wrote: Are you kidding me? It is very much 100% clear who started this, the chinese players did not seem interested in any kind of brawl, they simply fought for the ball and began running back to their positions when the GTown player took a swing at the chinese player and they noticed it.
the bayi player body checked the GT player. that's a guaranteed foul, if not a flagrant foul. that kind of contact is not normal in a basketball game. and the ref doesn't do shit about it.
therefore, it's not clear who started the brawl.
it's only clear that the bayi players and staff made it much worse, especially when they decide to chase down players who are clearly running away.
it's also not 57 fouls, it's 57 free throws.
57 fouls would mean that they could only field 2 players.
It's hilarious that Tyree keeps calling Americans biased, when anyone who makes the claim that what they see here is '100% CLEAR AND OBVIOUS!' is clearly biased themselves.
On August 20 2011 06:30 kainzero wrote: the bayi player body checked the GT player. that's a guaranteed foul, if not a flagrant foul. that kind of contact is not normal in a basketball game. and the ref doesn't do shit about it.
If you're referring to the bump when the Georgetown player was trying to pass the ball after recovering it, I think you're exaggerating the contact. I wouldn't call that a body check, what Horry did to Nash in the playoffs that one year was a body check. Also, while that is a clear foul, there's no way that's a flagrant foul, at least not by NBA or college rules. He was going for the ball and/or trying to deflect the pass.
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
How is pointing out what is true racist? The team was all black people...the fact he thinks they're aggressive is his opinion, whether it's right or wrong or even justified, who are we to judge?
It's not racist to not the team are black , although you would have to call into question why someone is noting that. What is racist however is that he attributes traits of aggressiveness with all black people with no reason to believe it. He assumes that the american players instigated the fight not because of any evidence presented to him but merely because their skin is black.
That is why he is called a racist and a bigot.
Well in his personal experience he says the majority of black people he's encountered have been more aggressive. Probably something to do with the fact that they're high school kids, not black though.
can't help but think that the Chinese would be much less willing to engage in a fight had the American team been white.
What makes you say that? From my experience playing Aussies Rules (best sport in the world, just quietly) if there's a fight about to happen I don't give a shit if the player is aboriginal, asian, white or anything else. They're getting a fist to the face regardless haha
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
How is pointing out what is true racist? The team was all black people...the fact he thinks they're aggressive is his opinion, whether it's right or wrong or even justified, who are we to judge?
It's not racist to not the team are black , although you would have to call into question why someone is noting that. What is racist however is that he attributes traits of aggressiveness with all black people with no reason to believe it. He assumes that the american players instigated the fight not because of any evidence presented to him but merely because their skin is black.
That is why he is called a racist and a bigot.
Well in his personal experience he says the majority of black people he's encountered have been more aggressive. Probably something to do with the fact that they're high school kids, not black though.
can't help but think that the Chinese would be much less willing to engage in a fight had the American team been white.
What makes you say that? From my experience playing Aussies Rules (best sport in the world, just quietly) if there's a fight about to happen I don't give a shit if the player is aboriginal, asian, white or anything else. They're getting a fist to the face regardless haha
He's making an assumption of preferential treatment due to race, ie saying that they have a passive look when engaging in white people and a more hostile towards colored. Normally i would be quick to dismiss but when you read news stories like this http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/06/29/china.rent.white.people/index.html you tend to think other wise, it's poor to generalize but either you do generalize in fear of being wrong or you don't but frankly the human mind works by grouping things so grouping people and generalizing is human nature, doesn't mean it's right just means it's understandable
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
How is pointing out what is true racist? The team was all black people...the fact he thinks they're aggressive is his opinion, whether it's right or wrong or even justified, who are we to judge?
It's not racist to not the team are black , although you would have to call into question why someone is noting that. What is racist however is that he attributes traits of aggressiveness with all black people with no reason to believe it. He assumes that the american players instigated the fight not because of any evidence presented to him but merely because their skin is black.
That is why he is called a racist and a bigot.
Well in his personal experience he says the majority of black people he's encountered have been more aggressive. Probably something to do with the fact that they're high school kids, not black though.
can't help but think that the Chinese would be much less willing to engage in a fight had the American team been white.
What makes you say that? From my experience playing Aussies Rules (best sport in the world, just quietly) if there's a fight about to happen I don't give a shit if the player is aboriginal, asian, white or anything else. They're getting a fist to the face regardless haha
He's making an assumption of preferential treatment due to race, ie saying that they have a passive look when engaging in white people and a more hostile towards colored. Normally i would be quick to dismiss but when you read news stories like this http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/06/29/china.rent.white.people/index.html you tend to think other wise, it's poor to generalize but either you do generalize in fear of being wrong or you don't but frankly the human mind works by grouping things so grouping people and generalizing is human nature, doesn't mean it's right just means it's understandable
I highly doubt race played a factor in this. The kids in China who are interested in or play basketball watch NBA games and root for NBA teams and players as much as fans here do.
On August 20 2011 05:54 Tyree wrote: You arent a bad person, your nationality is just clouding your judgement, if someone swung at you like that, you would get pretty pissed and do pretty much the same thing as the chinese players did, anyone would.
Go back and read all the chinese people in this thread saying that the chinese team and refs are in the wrong. Its not a nationality thing
He's not saying it's right. He's saying it's understandable.
It appears that GT started it physically, but Bayi's reaction was excessive. I imagine there must have been some racist trash talk going on, esp from GT to Bayi, to justify it. That's an explanation easier to swallow than "everyone in the stadium just being dicks."
On August 20 2011 05:54 Tyree wrote: You arent a bad person, your nationality is just clouding your judgement, if someone swung at you like that, you would get pretty pissed and do pretty much the same thing as the chinese players did, anyone would.
Go back and read all the chinese people in this thread saying that the chinese team and refs are in the wrong. Its not a nationality thing
He's not saying it's right. He's saying it's understandable.
It appears that GT started it physically, but Bayi's reaction was excessive. I imagine there must have been some racist trash talk going on, esp from GT to Bayi, to justify it. That's an explanation easier to swallow than "everyone in the stadium just being dicks."
Racist trash talk from GT, wtf?
It was probably: "Who the fuck hired these Chinese refs?" at most, which is completely understandable. Trying to rig a game that hard against a college team traveling to your country for a friendly is pathetic, and nothing more.
pffft sports teams fight. i know i've wanted to punch out people on the other team before, it just takes one hothead on your team to actually do it and before you know it you're hitting them too... unlucky coincidence that it was a whole china/us thing
On August 19 2011 23:20 Sfydjklm wrote: I can't help but think that the Chinese would be much less willing to engage in a fight had the American team been white.
Rofl, kid, you ever watch Chinese college basketball? Almost every team has a token black guy on the team, it's like the chinese schools go out of their way to recruit random people of African descent to play on their basketball teams because the NBA makes it seem like black people are the best at basketball.
On August 19 2011 06:05 renaissanceMAN wrote: america fuck yeah
User was warned for this post
On August 19 2011 06:06 Angryhorse wrote: Ohh damn.War between USA and China gogogogo!
User was warned for this post
Well this thread certainly had a rocky start... >_>
As for the behavior from the Chinese players, it's extremely rude and unprofessional. They seriously need to man up and accept losses. Really? Do pros absolutely have to beat up a college kid? Seems like they've got some huge ego/anger issues...
On August 19 2011 06:11 BlackJack wrote: How can you blame the Chinese players, OP? You weren't even there. According to the article the Chinese team took 4 times as many free throws which means either the refs were crooked or the Georgetown players were the ones playing rough
You've never been to china I take it. It's obvious that the refs were crooked.
of course not all fouls are hard fouls, and none even need to be. don't just look at the foul tally and assume that the US players were instigating this.
On August 19 2011 08:19 HikariPrime wrote: Okay Ive been around awhile, and ive been noticing a trend against china? Like seriously wtf, Why do these Americans post stuff about other countries to bash them, just because their own country is failing hardcore. Seems to me all of the American team was Black. Ive been around them for awhile considering public school in America is horrible. They really are the more aggressive type to start this imho.
P.S Im "American" lol
Changed your spoiler to BOLD to highlight your racist shit.
How is pointing out what is true racist? The team was all black people...the fact he thinks they're aggressive is his opinion, whether it's right or wrong or even justified, who are we to judge?
It's not racist to not the team are black , although you would have to call into question why someone is noting that. What is racist however is that he attributes traits of aggressiveness with all black people with no reason to believe it. He assumes that the american players instigated the fight not because of any evidence presented to him but merely because their skin is black.
That is why he is called a racist and a bigot.
Well in his personal experience he says the majority of black people he's encountered have been more aggressive. Probably something to do with the fact that they're high school kids, not black though.
can't help but think that the Chinese would be much less willing to engage in a fight had the American team been white.
What makes you say that? From my experience playing Aussies Rules (best sport in the world, just quietly) if there's a fight about to happen I don't give a shit if the player is aboriginal, asian, white or anything else. They're getting a fist to the face regardless haha
He's making an assumption of preferential treatment due to race, ie saying that they have a passive look when engaging in white people and a more hostile towards colored. Normally i would be quick to dismiss but when you read news stories like this http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/06/29/china.rent.white.people/index.html you tend to think other wise, it's poor to generalize but either you do generalize in fear of being wrong or you don't but frankly the human mind works by grouping things so grouping people and generalizing is human nature, doesn't mean it's right just means it's understandable
I highly doubt race played a factor in this. The kids in China who are interested in or play basketball watch NBA games and root for NBA teams and players as much as fans here do.
Completely agree with this.
The point is, a sport is a sport. When you're playing it you don't care what colour the other people on the fields skin is, just the colour of their uniform.
From what I've seen, most Chinese netizens approve of Bayi's thuggery.
Btw going by the pictures, the Bayi players looks very young. Possibly around the same age as the george town guys so please don't go about saying adults beat up a bunch of kids.
our history is kinda the reason why more people from African descent are stronger in the us. i doubt it has anything to do with the color of skin though or else everyone from africa would be owning in basketball.
After watching a working video, I'm not too disappointed overall. The brawl itself isn't something you ever want to see in good sport (it does make for good entertainment though), but it was a bit shorter than what I had anticipated after reading the OP. It also seemed pretty contained, and the teams were able to detach themselves easily enough.
Good for the majority of the spectators too - I thought they would be clamouring down the stairs to jump in, but they stayed pretty calm (or shocked) throughout.
On August 20 2011 05:43 MiNiMuM wrote: anyone miss the fact that it was tied 64 -64, but bayi had 57 freethrows? really? Even if you assume .7 ft percentage that means they only had 10 or 12 baskets after 3+ quarters.
keep in mind this is team has military ties - and the military in china is extremely nationalistic and anti american. not defending georgetown or anythin, but you can bet that the refs and security could have prevented this or at least tried to stop it. pro team at home in China baiting kids that they cant beat fairly at basketball. this is why no one respects China domestic pro leagues, the soccer is all fixed and the basketball is all fights.
i lived in China before and I can say that the basketball there is pretty scrappy and physical. What one team considered cheap might have been considered just hard play. In most pro leagues this situation gets diffused by referees. But in China getting a fair ref is not common, cant tell you how many bs refs we got when we played soccer who would call ridiculous offsides and penalties
Seeing that Bayi players are all soliders, I don't think the security want to mess with them.
The security there are just for crowd control. They don't get involved in on court fighting, why would you when your pay is shit and everyone in the fight is twice your size lol.
On August 21 2011 12:32 garlicface wrote: After watching a working video, I'm not too disappointed overall. The brawl itself isn't something you ever want to see in good sport (it does make for good entertainment though), but it was a bit shorter than what I had anticipated after reading the OP. It also seemed pretty contained, and the teams were able to detach themselves easily enough.
Good for the majority of the spectators too - I thought they would be clamouring down the stairs to jump in, but they stayed pretty calm (or shocked) throughout.
Except for when they started throwing water bottles at Georgetown.
To the credit of both teams, not everyone was being retarded. More than half of the players were just trying to break it up, definitely an embarrassing moment for everyone involved...
Ofc, it takes both sides for the brawl to happen. But the Chinese should be ashamed of doing this. It just go against the most basic Chinese teaching which are respected through out China and East Asia. You have to pay respect to your guest, thats what its about for thousand of years in China but these youngsters just seems to forget all that.
Also, China is China, a few days after the brawl happens, all of the video of it on Youku(the China Youtube) has been taken down. Most threads on many chinese forums that discuss the incident has been deleted as well. Well, China stays classy once again.