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I love how getting an education now means people can call you a liberal pawn that has been churned out of a propaganda factory. Dont the idiots that this rhetoric is going to realize that the people spewing this crap have not only high school diplomas, not only bachelors degrees, but usually masters, phds, etc...? How does this even make sense? They are using students that work hard and devote their time and effort to education as something to stomp on and look down upon. Its disgusting.
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On March 15 2012 04:30 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:26 Focuspants wrote:On March 15 2012 04:19 Defacer wrote:On March 15 2012 04:06 Doublemint wrote:On March 15 2012 04:01 Defacer wrote:On March 15 2012 03:58 Focuspants wrote:On March 15 2012 03:43 Doublemint wrote:On March 15 2012 03:36 Focuspants wrote:On March 15 2012 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:17 Signet wrote:
[quote]
Overall I think his analysis is closer to the truth regarding the partisan/electoral dynamics of this country than what most of the liberal posters here have been saying. Educated urban liberals don't always appreciate how vastly different the rest of the country is. For example, only about 1 in 6 Americans believes in natural evolution, and just a quarter have a college degree. How similar to that is your personal experience? There are huge cultural differences between what most of us experience versus the "median" cultural experience in this country. And politics is largely driven by cultural affiliation, not what the data says or what the academic consensus is. (this is why Santorum can lie about health care in the Netherlands and not lose any support. It isn't about making valid or even relevant arguments, it's about being conservative and signaling that affiliation.)
Also remember elections are about perception, not reality. Maybe 40% of this country hates, HATES, Obama. That has been festering for 4 years, and it's going to be difficult for him to overcome. Obama needs both a decent economic recovery and an above-average turnout from the under-30 age demographic. Neither of these can be assumed. Finally, someone who gets it. So the republicans are going to win because the media has successfully deceived an uneducated radical population, and the candidates of the republican party have done a good job making things up and can straight up bold face lie to get these people fired up about being a conservative? How can you actually win an election like that? There is no way that would fly in Canada. You need facts, empirical evidence, logical arguments, etc... These things should be what dictate an election, not fear mongering, brain washing and lying. The fact that this works, and that youre so happy someone understands this is how something works, is frightening from an outside perspective. The most powerful nation in the world can be won over by cheap lies and radical fearful rhetoric. This alone is proof your education system needs an urgent overhaul, and not in the direction of homeschooling like some of the republicans seem to want. It´s quite doable to win elections like that - you just described how politics works. And don´t kid yourself that in Canada only rational arguments and facts will be put into consideration... Though I am quite sure that in the long run it will neither be good for the country nor its people. Every nation has the government it deserves. We have the most moderate and boring media and political parties ever. I love it. People complain its boring, but that is EXACTLY what I love. Our debates are so dry, but they are filled with questions that actually get answered, using actual statistics and evidence. I was watching our provincial debate from the previous election again, and it was filled with very specific questions, that were actually answered, and each candidate had referenced sources to rebut with. It was gloriously boring and civilized. As for the whole rational arguments being the only consideration, no they wont be 100% of the deciding factor, but seeing as how the vast majority of Canadians are around the center, usually being socially more liberal and fiscally a bit more conservative, you need actual arguments to sway these people to the slight left or right of their position. Wild outlandish ideas, lies, radicalism, none of these things work to sway the middle, and the middle is the majority here. It makes for a much more rational process. I have actually been trying to find serious bias in our tv news stations, and it is incredibly hard to find. All of the stations seem to just report things, and dont seem to take a serious stance on either side of issues. Again this could be a result of appealing to a moderate population. Its just strange watching the American election process. Its so wildly different from anything we would ever experience up here. LOL. This is so true. The reason why I follow the GOP nomination is because it's truly become a Reality show where wealthy white men will do and say anything to get people to like them. Except for Ron Paul. He's "the weird one". lol...your country CAN´T be that boring...can it? :D I struggle to even remember the last issue that was genuinely controversial. Really, most of the hippies on the West Coast complain about economic inequality (being too broke to make a living off their goofy art projects), native rights, infrastructure projects (spending too much governemnt money on renovating a building or something), legalizing weed, and having to pay $3000/year for tuition instead of $1500/year (or something like that). Man, I love Canada. Our last big issue in Ontario was whether or not a plant they were building was going to make a neighbourhood look less attractive, and effect the home values. The current issue is whether we should build a light rail transit line on Eglinton to Scarborough, or subways. It is actually that boring. Yeah. No one is going around arguing that we should stop insuring birth control because birth control is evil and women that use it must be sluts. And if they did, no politician here would actually be stupid enough to half-agree!
no one is doing that here as far as i know...
it must be nice not being a world power.
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On March 15 2012 04:36 sc2superfan101 wrote:
it must be nice not being a world power.
Seriously = it is.
Ron Paul is right to question why the US has so many fingers in so many pies.
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On March 15 2012 04:30 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 03:51 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:36 Focuspants wrote:On March 15 2012 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:17 Signet wrote:On March 15 2012 02:45 Doublemint wrote:
@ XDaunt :
If you stopped looking through the red glasses for once, you´d come to a more sensible conclusion. NOTHING to show for? Really? How about killing Bin Laden? An economy that is growing pretty slowly but steadily. High debt argument after the greatest depression since the 1930s? Obamacare( a term phrased by right wingers) is mostly unpopular due to months and months of media spin, disgusting hyperbolic language included(death panels/Communism/Czar/Fascism...etc.)
I give you that there have been quite some fuckups like Solyndra - yet compared to neocon playing world police and war against terror, that´s peanuts. Also that printing a shitton of money will be pretty bad and bite them twice in the ass(Obama and the FED) due to high gas prices. But I don´t quite see how foreign issues like Afghanistan will be a major problem for Obama. It´s neither the war he started nor can he be directly responsible, quite the contrary. The sooner the US will leave the better for Obama(not necessarily the US, but we are talking politics here).
All that without even mentioning he will run against Christey Mc Sweatervest or Mr. Flip Flop himself. Republicans would have to run the campaign of the century, to spin all that into their favor. Not sure that´s going to happen. Money can´t buy you everything. Overall I think his analysis is closer to the truth regarding the partisan/electoral dynamics of this country than what most of the liberal posters here have been saying. Educated urban liberals don't always appreciate how vastly different the rest of the country is. For example, only about 1 in 6 Americans believes in natural evolution, and just a quarter have a college degree. How similar to that is your personal experience? There are huge cultural differences between what most of us experience versus the "median" cultural experience in this country. And politics is largely driven by cultural affiliation, not what the data says or what the academic consensus is. (this is why Santorum can lie about health care in the Netherlands and not lose any support. It isn't about making valid or even relevant arguments, it's about being conservative and signaling that affiliation.) Also remember elections are about perception, not reality. Maybe 40% of this country hates, HATES, Obama. That has been festering for 4 years, and it's going to be difficult for him to overcome. Obama needs both a decent economic recovery and an above-average turnout from the under-30 age demographic. Neither of these can be assumed. Finally, someone who gets it. So the republicans are going to win because the media has successfully deceived an uneducated radical population, and the candidates of the republican party have done a good job making things up and can straight up bold face lie to get these people fired up about being a conservative? How can you actually win an election like that? There is no way that would fly in Canada. You need facts, empirical evidence, logical arguments, etc... These things should be what dictate an election, not fear mongering, brain washing and lying. The fact that this works, and that youre so happy someone understands this is how something works, is frightening from an outside perspective. The most powerful nation in the world can be won over by cheap lies and radical fearful rhetoric. This alone is proof your education system needs an urgent overhaul, and not in the direction of homeschooling like some of the republicans seem to want. Here's something that will really mindfuck you: republicans believe that democrats enjoy an electoral advantage from the current education system. The line of thought goes something like this: The public school system is a bastion of liberal thought and indoctrination for lack of a better way of putting it. The result is that the public school system churns out all sorts of liberally-minded young people who are unable to think critically for themselves, and are thus prone to voting for the intellectually easy, touchy-feely liberal policies (namely fiscally liberal policies). More education leads to intellectually easy ideas and less critical thinking. Ahhh, xDaunt how can I get angry at you when you say such adorable things? I suppose it would be too much to ask for proof that better educated people think less critically or are more vulnerable to indoctrination. Besides, why would that give liberals an advantage? Our education system sucks.
The education system does suck. The problem that I was referring do was teachers imparting their political bias upon their students.
And what, are we really going to pretend that the vast majority of teachers in this country aren't democrats and that there is no liberal bias pushed upon kids in class? Anyone who has been through the public school system knows what the score is.
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On March 15 2012 04:39 Defacer wrote:
Ron Paul is right to question why the US has so many fingers in so many pies.
Uhm. Is this a Canadian expression? Because I've never heard that one before.
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On March 15 2012 04:42 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:39 Defacer wrote:
Ron Paul is right to question why the US has so many fingers in so many pies. Uhm. Is this a Canadian expression? Because I've never heard that one before.
Really? I thought it was American. I thought Americans liked pies.
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On March 15 2012 04:33 Focuspants wrote:
I love how getting an education now means people can call you a liberal pawn that has been churned out of a propaganda factory. Dont the idiots that this rhetoric is going to realize that the people spewing this crap have not only high school diplomas, not only bachelors degrees, but usually masters, phds, etc...? How does this even make sense? They are using students that work hard and devote their time and effort to education as something to stomp on and look down upon. Its disgusting.
no one says that getting an education is a bad thing. republicans say that the education system has become a "cesspool of liberal ideology" (the words of someone i know). have you ever heard any one of these politicians say that receiving a classical education is terrible and will make you a liberal? no. you hear them say that specific teachers and professors give shitty educations and are there mainly so that they can indoctrinate their students to a certain point of view.
whether it's true or not, and i think to a large degree it is true, people like you, and like a lot of others in this thread, do nothing to help the problem. your attitude is one of sneering dismissal, you have basically called everyone who disagrees with you on any real issue "stupid", you've (like this quote right here) misrepresented the actual conservative argument and then you blame people for thinking: "man, maybe there is something to this idea". especially when we have Obama and democrats basically saying that everyone should go to college. not even, "everyone should have a chance to go to college" but straight up everyone SHOULD go to college. what?!? that's ridiculous. there are plenty of good jobs that don't require a college education. not everyone should go to college. that's part of our problem in this country, is too many people going to college and getting women's studies degrees and coming out thinking they are smarter than everyone and have actually learned anything. and worse, expecting a well-paying job.
now the common, the only, argument against any of this is the: "maybe people come out of college liberal because liberalism is blah blah blah."
yeah? maybe pigs will fly out of my ass. maybe pink unicorns are gonna bring us all space candy. or maybe it's because 90% of college professors are open progressives.
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On March 15 2012 04:40 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:30 DoubleReed wrote:On March 15 2012 03:51 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:36 Focuspants wrote:On March 15 2012 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:17 Signet wrote:On March 15 2012 02:45 Doublemint wrote:
@ XDaunt :
If you stopped looking through the red glasses for once, you´d come to a more sensible conclusion. NOTHING to show for? Really? How about killing Bin Laden? An economy that is growing pretty slowly but steadily. High debt argument after the greatest depression since the 1930s? Obamacare( a term phrased by right wingers) is mostly unpopular due to months and months of media spin, disgusting hyperbolic language included(death panels/Communism/Czar/Fascism...etc.)
I give you that there have been quite some fuckups like Solyndra - yet compared to neocon playing world police and war against terror, that´s peanuts. Also that printing a shitton of money will be pretty bad and bite them twice in the ass(Obama and the FED) due to high gas prices. But I don´t quite see how foreign issues like Afghanistan will be a major problem for Obama. It´s neither the war he started nor can he be directly responsible, quite the contrary. The sooner the US will leave the better for Obama(not necessarily the US, but we are talking politics here).
All that without even mentioning he will run against Christey Mc Sweatervest or Mr. Flip Flop himself. Republicans would have to run the campaign of the century, to spin all that into their favor. Not sure that´s going to happen. Money can´t buy you everything. Overall I think his analysis is closer to the truth regarding the partisan/electoral dynamics of this country than what most of the liberal posters here have been saying. Educated urban liberals don't always appreciate how vastly different the rest of the country is. For example, only about 1 in 6 Americans believes in natural evolution, and just a quarter have a college degree. How similar to that is your personal experience? There are huge cultural differences between what most of us experience versus the "median" cultural experience in this country. And politics is largely driven by cultural affiliation, not what the data says or what the academic consensus is. (this is why Santorum can lie about health care in the Netherlands and not lose any support. It isn't about making valid or even relevant arguments, it's about being conservative and signaling that affiliation.) Also remember elections are about perception, not reality. Maybe 40% of this country hates, HATES, Obama. That has been festering for 4 years, and it's going to be difficult for him to overcome. Obama needs both a decent economic recovery and an above-average turnout from the under-30 age demographic. Neither of these can be assumed. Finally, someone who gets it. So the republicans are going to win because the media has successfully deceived an uneducated radical population, and the candidates of the republican party have done a good job making things up and can straight up bold face lie to get these people fired up about being a conservative? How can you actually win an election like that? There is no way that would fly in Canada. You need facts, empirical evidence, logical arguments, etc... These things should be what dictate an election, not fear mongering, brain washing and lying. The fact that this works, and that youre so happy someone understands this is how something works, is frightening from an outside perspective. The most powerful nation in the world can be won over by cheap lies and radical fearful rhetoric. This alone is proof your education system needs an urgent overhaul, and not in the direction of homeschooling like some of the republicans seem to want. Here's something that will really mindfuck you: republicans believe that democrats enjoy an electoral advantage from the current education system. The line of thought goes something like this: The public school system is a bastion of liberal thought and indoctrination for lack of a better way of putting it. The result is that the public school system churns out all sorts of liberally-minded young people who are unable to think critically for themselves, and are thus prone to voting for the intellectually easy, touchy-feely liberal policies (namely fiscally liberal policies). More education leads to intellectually easy ideas and less critical thinking. Ahhh, xDaunt how can I get angry at you when you say such adorable things? I suppose it would be too much to ask for proof that better educated people think less critically or are more vulnerable to indoctrination. Besides, why would that give liberals an advantage? Our education system sucks. The education system does suck. The problem that I was referring do was teachers imparting their political bias upon their students. And what, are we really going to pretend that the vast majority of teachers in this country aren't democrats and that there is no liberal bias pushed upon kids in class? Anyone who has been through the public school system knows what the score is.
Uh yes. I dispute that. Because it's not true. Especially fiscal policy geez. You really think teachers have a goal to push liberal bias on you? That's conspiratorial and absurd. Oh no! The eeeeevil education system.
Please elaborate for my amusement.
Edit: superfan. That quote that you claim Obama is not saying is precisely what he is saying. Show me where he says everyone should go to college. Blatant lie.
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On March 15 2012 04:46 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 04:30 DoubleReed wrote:On March 15 2012 03:51 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:36 Focuspants wrote:On March 15 2012 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:17 Signet wrote:On March 15 2012 02:45 Doublemint wrote:
@ XDaunt :
If you stopped looking through the red glasses for once, you´d come to a more sensible conclusion. NOTHING to show for? Really? How about killing Bin Laden? An economy that is growing pretty slowly but steadily. High debt argument after the greatest depression since the 1930s? Obamacare( a term phrased by right wingers) is mostly unpopular due to months and months of media spin, disgusting hyperbolic language included(death panels/Communism/Czar/Fascism...etc.)
I give you that there have been quite some fuckups like Solyndra - yet compared to neocon playing world police and war against terror, that´s peanuts. Also that printing a shitton of money will be pretty bad and bite them twice in the ass(Obama and the FED) due to high gas prices. But I don´t quite see how foreign issues like Afghanistan will be a major problem for Obama. It´s neither the war he started nor can he be directly responsible, quite the contrary. The sooner the US will leave the better for Obama(not necessarily the US, but we are talking politics here).
All that without even mentioning he will run against Christey Mc Sweatervest or Mr. Flip Flop himself. Republicans would have to run the campaign of the century, to spin all that into their favor. Not sure that´s going to happen. Money can´t buy you everything. Overall I think his analysis is closer to the truth regarding the partisan/electoral dynamics of this country than what most of the liberal posters here have been saying. Educated urban liberals don't always appreciate how vastly different the rest of the country is. For example, only about 1 in 6 Americans believes in natural evolution, and just a quarter have a college degree. How similar to that is your personal experience? There are huge cultural differences between what most of us experience versus the "median" cultural experience in this country. And politics is largely driven by cultural affiliation, not what the data says or what the academic consensus is. (this is why Santorum can lie about health care in the Netherlands and not lose any support. It isn't about making valid or even relevant arguments, it's about being conservative and signaling that affiliation.) Also remember elections are about perception, not reality. Maybe 40% of this country hates, HATES, Obama. That has been festering for 4 years, and it's going to be difficult for him to overcome. Obama needs both a decent economic recovery and an above-average turnout from the under-30 age demographic. Neither of these can be assumed. Finally, someone who gets it. So the republicans are going to win because the media has successfully deceived an uneducated radical population, and the candidates of the republican party have done a good job making things up and can straight up bold face lie to get these people fired up about being a conservative? How can you actually win an election like that? There is no way that would fly in Canada. You need facts, empirical evidence, logical arguments, etc... These things should be what dictate an election, not fear mongering, brain washing and lying. The fact that this works, and that youre so happy someone understands this is how something works, is frightening from an outside perspective. The most powerful nation in the world can be won over by cheap lies and radical fearful rhetoric. This alone is proof your education system needs an urgent overhaul, and not in the direction of homeschooling like some of the republicans seem to want. Here's something that will really mindfuck you: republicans believe that democrats enjoy an electoral advantage from the current education system. The line of thought goes something like this: The public school system is a bastion of liberal thought and indoctrination for lack of a better way of putting it. The result is that the public school system churns out all sorts of liberally-minded young people who are unable to think critically for themselves, and are thus prone to voting for the intellectually easy, touchy-feely liberal policies (namely fiscally liberal policies). More education leads to intellectually easy ideas and less critical thinking. Ahhh, xDaunt how can I get angry at you when you say such adorable things? I suppose it would be too much to ask for proof that better educated people think less critically or are more vulnerable to indoctrination. Besides, why would that give liberals an advantage? Our education system sucks. The education system does suck. The problem that I was referring do was teachers imparting their political bias upon their students. And what, are we really going to pretend that the vast majority of teachers in this country aren't democrats and that there is no liberal bias pushed upon kids in class? Anyone who has been through the public school system knows what the score is. Uh yes. I dispute that. Because it's not true. Especially fiscal policy geez. You really think teachers have a goal to push liberal bias on you? That's conspiratorial and absurd. Oh no! The eeeeevil education system. Please elaborate for my amusement.
you think it's absurd that a person will teach toward their bias?
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On March 15 2012 04:40 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:30 DoubleReed wrote:On March 15 2012 03:51 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:36 Focuspants wrote:On March 15 2012 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:17 Signet wrote:On March 15 2012 02:45 Doublemint wrote:
@ XDaunt :
If you stopped looking through the red glasses for once, you´d come to a more sensible conclusion. NOTHING to show for? Really? How about killing Bin Laden? An economy that is growing pretty slowly but steadily. High debt argument after the greatest depression since the 1930s? Obamacare( a term phrased by right wingers) is mostly unpopular due to months and months of media spin, disgusting hyperbolic language included(death panels/Communism/Czar/Fascism...etc.)
I give you that there have been quite some fuckups like Solyndra - yet compared to neocon playing world police and war against terror, that´s peanuts. Also that printing a shitton of money will be pretty bad and bite them twice in the ass(Obama and the FED) due to high gas prices. But I don´t quite see how foreign issues like Afghanistan will be a major problem for Obama. It´s neither the war he started nor can he be directly responsible, quite the contrary. The sooner the US will leave the better for Obama(not necessarily the US, but we are talking politics here).
All that without even mentioning he will run against Christey Mc Sweatervest or Mr. Flip Flop himself. Republicans would have to run the campaign of the century, to spin all that into their favor. Not sure that´s going to happen. Money can´t buy you everything. Overall I think his analysis is closer to the truth regarding the partisan/electoral dynamics of this country than what most of the liberal posters here have been saying. Educated urban liberals don't always appreciate how vastly different the rest of the country is. For example, only about 1 in 6 Americans believes in natural evolution, and just a quarter have a college degree. How similar to that is your personal experience? There are huge cultural differences between what most of us experience versus the "median" cultural experience in this country. And politics is largely driven by cultural affiliation, not what the data says or what the academic consensus is. (this is why Santorum can lie about health care in the Netherlands and not lose any support. It isn't about making valid or even relevant arguments, it's about being conservative and signaling that affiliation.) Also remember elections are about perception, not reality. Maybe 40% of this country hates, HATES, Obama. That has been festering for 4 years, and it's going to be difficult for him to overcome. Obama needs both a decent economic recovery and an above-average turnout from the under-30 age demographic. Neither of these can be assumed. Finally, someone who gets it. So the republicans are going to win because the media has successfully deceived an uneducated radical population, and the candidates of the republican party have done a good job making things up and can straight up bold face lie to get these people fired up about being a conservative? How can you actually win an election like that? There is no way that would fly in Canada. You need facts, empirical evidence, logical arguments, etc... These things should be what dictate an election, not fear mongering, brain washing and lying. The fact that this works, and that youre so happy someone understands this is how something works, is frightening from an outside perspective. The most powerful nation in the world can be won over by cheap lies and radical fearful rhetoric. This alone is proof your education system needs an urgent overhaul, and not in the direction of homeschooling like some of the republicans seem to want. Here's something that will really mindfuck you: republicans believe that democrats enjoy an electoral advantage from the current education system. The line of thought goes something like this: The public school system is a bastion of liberal thought and indoctrination for lack of a better way of putting it. The result is that the public school system churns out all sorts of liberally-minded young people who are unable to think critically for themselves, and are thus prone to voting for the intellectually easy, touchy-feely liberal policies (namely fiscally liberal policies). More education leads to intellectually easy ideas and less critical thinking. Ahhh, xDaunt how can I get angry at you when you say such adorable things? I suppose it would be too much to ask for proof that better educated people think less critically or are more vulnerable to indoctrination. Besides, why would that give liberals an advantage? Our education system sucks. The education system does suck. The problem that I was referring do was teachers imparting their political bias upon their students. And what, are we really going to pretend that the vast majority of teachers in this country aren't democrats and that there is no liberal bias pushed upon kids in class? Anyone who has been through the public school system knows what the score is.
Have you ever wondered why more educated people tend to be more liberal? Maybe its because after engaging and experiencing the world, you realize that wasting time ruining the lives of gays, telling people they cant have sex because you said so, giving infiinite benefits and breaks to corporations and the rich, emphasizing the value of home schooling, etc... is just that, a waste of time.
Also, if you think schools ALL have liberal biases, youre definitely full of it. Schools generally hold a bias to whatever the local culture is. You can see it in Canada too. I have friends that grew up in the countryside, and they dont believe in evolution, they dont like the idea of gay marriage, etc... It is purely because they were never taught about evolution, and social issues are dominated by the religous propaganda of the area, as the schools in countrysides tend to be more religously offiliated than those in urban areas. The difference between them and american social conservatives, is that for the most part, they dont hold others to their "standards". They let people live their lives.
You may see someone being taught evolution in science class as liberal propaganda, and the systematic removal of faith from your great nation, but the rest of the world just calls that getting an education and learning facts. The more you learn, and the more you see there is to learn about, the more you realize that these little issues you waste your time fighting about are a collosal waste of time.
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On March 15 2012 04:44 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:33 Focuspants wrote:
I love how getting an education now means people can call you a liberal pawn that has been churned out of a propaganda factory. Dont the idiots that this rhetoric is going to realize that the people spewing this crap have not only high school diplomas, not only bachelors degrees, but usually masters, phds, etc...? How does this even make sense? They are using students that work hard and devote their time and effort to education as something to stomp on and look down upon. Its disgusting. we have Obama and democrats basically saying that everyone should go to college. not even, "everyone should have a chance to go to college" but straight up everyone SHOULD go to college.
This is a blatant LIE. He NEVER said that. He said that everyone should have ACCESS to college. That you shouldnt be turned away for moentary reasons. He in the same speech youre referencing, said that everyone should have access to a proper education based on what they want to do. He listed off multiple trade schooling programs and more that should all be available to people based on their desired path. You are 100% disengenuous with your rhetoric.
Santorum said "Obama wants everyone to go to college, what a snob". This is a fact. He said this. This is also a blatant lie, as Obama NEVER said that. The republicans are using educated young people as a target dummy for their bullshit, and it is terrible. These young people have put their time, effort, and money into their craft, are likely in deep debt for doing so, and you write them off as liberal puppets. Its disgusting.
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On March 15 2012 04:48 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:46 DoubleReed wrote:On March 15 2012 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 04:30 DoubleReed wrote:On March 15 2012 03:51 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:36 Focuspants wrote:On March 15 2012 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:17 Signet wrote:On March 15 2012 02:45 Doublemint wrote:
@ XDaunt :
If you stopped looking through the red glasses for once, you´d come to a more sensible conclusion. NOTHING to show for? Really? How about killing Bin Laden? An economy that is growing pretty slowly but steadily. High debt argument after the greatest depression since the 1930s? Obamacare( a term phrased by right wingers) is mostly unpopular due to months and months of media spin, disgusting hyperbolic language included(death panels/Communism/Czar/Fascism...etc.)
I give you that there have been quite some fuckups like Solyndra - yet compared to neocon playing world police and war against terror, that´s peanuts. Also that printing a shitton of money will be pretty bad and bite them twice in the ass(Obama and the FED) due to high gas prices. But I don´t quite see how foreign issues like Afghanistan will be a major problem for Obama. It´s neither the war he started nor can he be directly responsible, quite the contrary. The sooner the US will leave the better for Obama(not necessarily the US, but we are talking politics here).
All that without even mentioning he will run against Christey Mc Sweatervest or Mr. Flip Flop himself. Republicans would have to run the campaign of the century, to spin all that into their favor. Not sure that´s going to happen. Money can´t buy you everything. Overall I think his analysis is closer to the truth regarding the partisan/electoral dynamics of this country than what most of the liberal posters here have been saying. Educated urban liberals don't always appreciate how vastly different the rest of the country is. For example, only about 1 in 6 Americans believes in natural evolution, and just a quarter have a college degree. How similar to that is your personal experience? There are huge cultural differences between what most of us experience versus the "median" cultural experience in this country. And politics is largely driven by cultural affiliation, not what the data says or what the academic consensus is. (this is why Santorum can lie about health care in the Netherlands and not lose any support. It isn't about making valid or even relevant arguments, it's about being conservative and signaling that affiliation.) Also remember elections are about perception, not reality. Maybe 40% of this country hates, HATES, Obama. That has been festering for 4 years, and it's going to be difficult for him to overcome. Obama needs both a decent economic recovery and an above-average turnout from the under-30 age demographic. Neither of these can be assumed. Finally, someone who gets it. So the republicans are going to win because the media has successfully deceived an uneducated radical population, and the candidates of the republican party have done a good job making things up and can straight up bold face lie to get these people fired up about being a conservative? How can you actually win an election like that? There is no way that would fly in Canada. You need facts, empirical evidence, logical arguments, etc... These things should be what dictate an election, not fear mongering, brain washing and lying. The fact that this works, and that youre so happy someone understands this is how something works, is frightening from an outside perspective. The most powerful nation in the world can be won over by cheap lies and radical fearful rhetoric. This alone is proof your education system needs an urgent overhaul, and not in the direction of homeschooling like some of the republicans seem to want. Here's something that will really mindfuck you: republicans believe that democrats enjoy an electoral advantage from the current education system. The line of thought goes something like this: The public school system is a bastion of liberal thought and indoctrination for lack of a better way of putting it. The result is that the public school system churns out all sorts of liberally-minded young people who are unable to think critically for themselves, and are thus prone to voting for the intellectually easy, touchy-feely liberal policies (namely fiscally liberal policies). More education leads to intellectually easy ideas and less critical thinking. Ahhh, xDaunt how can I get angry at you when you say such adorable things? I suppose it would be too much to ask for proof that better educated people think less critically or are more vulnerable to indoctrination. Besides, why would that give liberals an advantage? Our education system sucks. The education system does suck. The problem that I was referring do was teachers imparting their political bias upon their students. And what, are we really going to pretend that the vast majority of teachers in this country aren't democrats and that there is no liberal bias pushed upon kids in class? Anyone who has been through the public school system knows what the score is. Uh yes. I dispute that. Because it's not true. Especially fiscal policy geez. You really think teachers have a goal to push liberal bias on you? That's conspiratorial and absurd. Oh no! The eeeeevil education system. Please elaborate for my amusement. you think it's absurd that a person will teach toward their bias?
Remember, we're talking public school and liberal fiscal policy. What high school class would government fiscal policy come into play where the bias wouldn't be blatantly obvious?
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Focuspants:
You may see someone being taught evolution in science class as liberal propaganda, and the systematic removal of faith from your great nation, but the rest of the world just calls that getting an education and learning facts.
Haha, the epitome of the 2012 republican party.
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On March 15 2012 04:58 DamnCats wrote:Focuspants: Show nested quote +You may see someone being taught evolution in science class as liberal propaganda Haha, the epitome of the 2012 republican party.
Its sad that this idea even needs to be mentioned, let alone that people actually believe that....
Edit* your quoting makes it look like I actually believe that, please add the rest of my sentence in so I dont have to look at my name next to that sentence haha.
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On March 15 2012 04:55 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:48 sc2superfan101 wrote:On March 15 2012 04:46 DoubleReed wrote:On March 15 2012 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 04:30 DoubleReed wrote:On March 15 2012 03:51 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:36 Focuspants wrote:On March 15 2012 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:17 Signet wrote:On March 15 2012 02:45 Doublemint wrote:
@ XDaunt :
If you stopped looking through the red glasses for once, you´d come to a more sensible conclusion. NOTHING to show for? Really? How about killing Bin Laden? An economy that is growing pretty slowly but steadily. High debt argument after the greatest depression since the 1930s? Obamacare( a term phrased by right wingers) is mostly unpopular due to months and months of media spin, disgusting hyperbolic language included(death panels/Communism/Czar/Fascism...etc.)
I give you that there have been quite some fuckups like Solyndra - yet compared to neocon playing world police and war against terror, that´s peanuts. Also that printing a shitton of money will be pretty bad and bite them twice in the ass(Obama and the FED) due to high gas prices. But I don´t quite see how foreign issues like Afghanistan will be a major problem for Obama. It´s neither the war he started nor can he be directly responsible, quite the contrary. The sooner the US will leave the better for Obama(not necessarily the US, but we are talking politics here).
All that without even mentioning he will run against Christey Mc Sweatervest or Mr. Flip Flop himself. Republicans would have to run the campaign of the century, to spin all that into their favor. Not sure that´s going to happen. Money can´t buy you everything. Overall I think his analysis is closer to the truth regarding the partisan/electoral dynamics of this country than what most of the liberal posters here have been saying. Educated urban liberals don't always appreciate how vastly different the rest of the country is. For example, only about 1 in 6 Americans believes in natural evolution, and just a quarter have a college degree. How similar to that is your personal experience? There are huge cultural differences between what most of us experience versus the "median" cultural experience in this country. And politics is largely driven by cultural affiliation, not what the data says or what the academic consensus is. (this is why Santorum can lie about health care in the Netherlands and not lose any support. It isn't about making valid or even relevant arguments, it's about being conservative and signaling that affiliation.) Also remember elections are about perception, not reality. Maybe 40% of this country hates, HATES, Obama. That has been festering for 4 years, and it's going to be difficult for him to overcome. Obama needs both a decent economic recovery and an above-average turnout from the under-30 age demographic. Neither of these can be assumed. Finally, someone who gets it. So the republicans are going to win because the media has successfully deceived an uneducated radical population, and the candidates of the republican party have done a good job making things up and can straight up bold face lie to get these people fired up about being a conservative? How can you actually win an election like that? There is no way that would fly in Canada. You need facts, empirical evidence, logical arguments, etc... These things should be what dictate an election, not fear mongering, brain washing and lying. The fact that this works, and that youre so happy someone understands this is how something works, is frightening from an outside perspective. The most powerful nation in the world can be won over by cheap lies and radical fearful rhetoric. This alone is proof your education system needs an urgent overhaul, and not in the direction of homeschooling like some of the republicans seem to want. Here's something that will really mindfuck you: republicans believe that democrats enjoy an electoral advantage from the current education system. The line of thought goes something like this: The public school system is a bastion of liberal thought and indoctrination for lack of a better way of putting it. The result is that the public school system churns out all sorts of liberally-minded young people who are unable to think critically for themselves, and are thus prone to voting for the intellectually easy, touchy-feely liberal policies (namely fiscally liberal policies). More education leads to intellectually easy ideas and less critical thinking. Ahhh, xDaunt how can I get angry at you when you say such adorable things? I suppose it would be too much to ask for proof that better educated people think less critically or are more vulnerable to indoctrination. Besides, why would that give liberals an advantage? Our education system sucks. The education system does suck. The problem that I was referring do was teachers imparting their political bias upon their students. And what, are we really going to pretend that the vast majority of teachers in this country aren't democrats and that there is no liberal bias pushed upon kids in class? Anyone who has been through the public school system knows what the score is. Uh yes. I dispute that. Because it's not true. Especially fiscal policy geez. You really think teachers have a goal to push liberal bias on you? That's conspiratorial and absurd. Oh no! The eeeeevil education system. Please elaborate for my amusement. you think it's absurd that a person will teach toward their bias? Remember, we're talking public school and liberal fiscal policy. What high school class would government fiscal policy come into play where the bias wouldn't be blatantly obvious?
My junior year high school history teacher taught the IB History of the Americas course. It was a constant liberal shit show on a whole range of topics, but we spent a lot of time learning about how trickle down economics doesn't work and that FDR-style keynsianism was the way to go.
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On March 15 2012 04:55 Focuspants wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:44 sc2superfan101 wrote:On March 15 2012 04:33 Focuspants wrote:
I love how getting an education now means people can call you a liberal pawn that has been churned out of a propaganda factory. Dont the idiots that this rhetoric is going to realize that the people spewing this crap have not only high school diplomas, not only bachelors degrees, but usually masters, phds, etc...? How does this even make sense? They are using students that work hard and devote their time and effort to education as something to stomp on and look down upon. Its disgusting. we have Obama and democrats basically saying that everyone should go to college. not even, "everyone should have a chance to go to college" but straight up everyone SHOULD go to college. This is a blatant LIE. He NEVER said that. He said that everyone should have ACCESS to college. That you shouldnt be turned away for moentary reasons. He in the same speech youre referencing, said that everyone should have access to a proper education based on what they want to do. He listed off multiple trade schooling programs and more that should all be available to people based on their desired path. You are 100% disengenuous with your rhetoric. Santorum said "Obama wants everyone to go to college, what a snob". This is a fact. He said this. This is also a blatant lie, as Obama NEVER said that. The republicans are using educated young people as a target dummy for their bullshit, and it is terrible. These young people have put their time, effort, and money into their craft, are likely in deep debt for doing so, and you write them off as liberal puppets. Its disgusting.
i said Obama and democrats. don't focus only on obama. the rhetoric is clearly: everyone should go to college. either that or they've created a false problem and are trying to "fix" it, because if you have the grades and you want to put in the effort: you can go to college.
i never wrote off anyone as any kind of puppet. i simply said that i believe there is a clear liberal bias in most colleges and schools and that that bias comes through. have you ever spent any time in an American public school, or an American college? i had an economics professor say: "i'm just generalizing, so don't get upset, but Republicans are stupid." that is an exact quote, because i remember being shocked that he would actually say something like that and promptly dropped the class. i've seen about 100 "Obama 2012" posters on the walls of my college, but no "Santorum 2012" or "Romney 2012". i asked if i could put one up. the answer?
"only professors can put poster up on the walls"
a lot of these young people who put time and effort and money into their "craft" are getting crap degrees that aren't worth the paper they've been written on and are now calling for us to forgive their student debts. and a lot of them feel like they are better than everyone who put their time and effort and money into learning a skill or working, because they've been told that they are better by 90% of their professors. it's not hard to see why they are often looked at a bit askew by republicans and republican leaders. look, i'm not gonna convince you that there is a bias, because that doesn't fit into your world view, and because a lot of things that are examples of bias, you will probably see as perfectly fine. stop acting like these students are innocent little puppies being slaughtered by republicans though. they are mostly young adults who aren't even being attacked, their teachers and professors and schools are being "attacked".
i've seen a lot of misrepresentation of republicans in this thread, so don't even start with that.
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On March 15 2012 04:44 sc2superfan101 wrote:
yeah? maybe pigs will fly out of my ass. maybe pink unicorns are gonna bring us all space candy. or maybe it's because 90% of college professors are open progressives.
It's true that, overall, about 75% of college professors are Democrats or Democratic-leaners. (I know you didn't mean the 90% number literally, that's not the point I'm making.) But this is sort of a chicken vs egg problem - WHY are most professors (and most people with some sort of doctoral degree) more liberal than the national average.
I would argue that both a) social conservatism holds more beliefs that fly in the face of facts/scientific discoveries than either progressivism or libertarianism/classical liberalism and b) social conservatism to some extent views academic study and the scientific method with suspicion (if not outright hostility) and therefore discourages its adherents from entering related fields.
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On March 15 2012 04:40 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:30 DoubleReed wrote:On March 15 2012 03:51 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:36 Focuspants wrote:On March 15 2012 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:17 Signet wrote:On March 15 2012 02:45 Doublemint wrote:
@ XDaunt :
If you stopped looking through the red glasses for once, you´d come to a more sensible conclusion. NOTHING to show for? Really? How about killing Bin Laden? An economy that is growing pretty slowly but steadily. High debt argument after the greatest depression since the 1930s? Obamacare( a term phrased by right wingers) is mostly unpopular due to months and months of media spin, disgusting hyperbolic language included(death panels/Communism/Czar/Fascism...etc.)
I give you that there have been quite some fuckups like Solyndra - yet compared to neocon playing world police and war against terror, that´s peanuts. Also that printing a shitton of money will be pretty bad and bite them twice in the ass(Obama and the FED) due to high gas prices. But I don´t quite see how foreign issues like Afghanistan will be a major problem for Obama. It´s neither the war he started nor can he be directly responsible, quite the contrary. The sooner the US will leave the better for Obama(not necessarily the US, but we are talking politics here).
All that without even mentioning he will run against Christey Mc Sweatervest or Mr. Flip Flop himself. Republicans would have to run the campaign of the century, to spin all that into their favor. Not sure that´s going to happen. Money can´t buy you everything. Overall I think his analysis is closer to the truth regarding the partisan/electoral dynamics of this country than what most of the liberal posters here have been saying. Educated urban liberals don't always appreciate how vastly different the rest of the country is. For example, only about 1 in 6 Americans believes in natural evolution, and just a quarter have a college degree. How similar to that is your personal experience? There are huge cultural differences between what most of us experience versus the "median" cultural experience in this country. And politics is largely driven by cultural affiliation, not what the data says or what the academic consensus is. (this is why Santorum can lie about health care in the Netherlands and not lose any support. It isn't about making valid or even relevant arguments, it's about being conservative and signaling that affiliation.) Also remember elections are about perception, not reality. Maybe 40% of this country hates, HATES, Obama. That has been festering for 4 years, and it's going to be difficult for him to overcome. Obama needs both a decent economic recovery and an above-average turnout from the under-30 age demographic. Neither of these can be assumed. Finally, someone who gets it. So the republicans are going to win because the media has successfully deceived an uneducated radical population, and the candidates of the republican party have done a good job making things up and can straight up bold face lie to get these people fired up about being a conservative? How can you actually win an election like that? There is no way that would fly in Canada. You need facts, empirical evidence, logical arguments, etc... These things should be what dictate an election, not fear mongering, brain washing and lying. The fact that this works, and that youre so happy someone understands this is how something works, is frightening from an outside perspective. The most powerful nation in the world can be won over by cheap lies and radical fearful rhetoric. This alone is proof your education system needs an urgent overhaul, and not in the direction of homeschooling like some of the republicans seem to want. Here's something that will really mindfuck you: republicans believe that democrats enjoy an electoral advantage from the current education system. The line of thought goes something like this: The public school system is a bastion of liberal thought and indoctrination for lack of a better way of putting it. The result is that the public school system churns out all sorts of liberally-minded young people who are unable to think critically for themselves, and are thus prone to voting for the intellectually easy, touchy-feely liberal policies (namely fiscally liberal policies). More education leads to intellectually easy ideas and less critical thinking. Ahhh, xDaunt how can I get angry at you when you say such adorable things? I suppose it would be too much to ask for proof that better educated people think less critically or are more vulnerable to indoctrination. Besides, why would that give liberals an advantage? Our education system sucks. The education system does suck. The problem that I was referring do was teachers imparting their political bias upon their students. And what, are we really going to pretend that the vast majority of teachers in this country aren't democrats and that there is no liberal bias pushed upon kids in class? Anyone who has been through the public school system knows what the score is.
What's wrong with a liberal bias (when the alternative is a conservative bias)?
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The whole problem here is that republicans are misrepresented by democrats as being only social conservatives, which isn't even true. The more core elements of being republican (ie the other facets of being conservative) are being pro-free market, anti-government regulation, and pro-American (in terms of nationalism).
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On March 15 2012 05:05 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:55 DoubleReed wrote:On March 15 2012 04:48 sc2superfan101 wrote:On March 15 2012 04:46 DoubleReed wrote:On March 15 2012 04:40 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 04:30 DoubleReed wrote:On March 15 2012 03:51 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:36 Focuspants wrote:On March 15 2012 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On March 15 2012 03:17 Signet wrote:
[quote]
Overall I think his analysis is closer to the truth regarding the partisan/electoral dynamics of this country than what most of the liberal posters here have been saying. Educated urban liberals don't always appreciate how vastly different the rest of the country is. For example, only about 1 in 6 Americans believes in natural evolution, and just a quarter have a college degree. How similar to that is your personal experience? There are huge cultural differences between what most of us experience versus the "median" cultural experience in this country. And politics is largely driven by cultural affiliation, not what the data says or what the academic consensus is. (this is why Santorum can lie about health care in the Netherlands and not lose any support. It isn't about making valid or even relevant arguments, it's about being conservative and signaling that affiliation.)
Also remember elections are about perception, not reality. Maybe 40% of this country hates, HATES, Obama. That has been festering for 4 years, and it's going to be difficult for him to overcome. Obama needs both a decent economic recovery and an above-average turnout from the under-30 age demographic. Neither of these can be assumed. Finally, someone who gets it. So the republicans are going to win because the media has successfully deceived an uneducated radical population, and the candidates of the republican party have done a good job making things up and can straight up bold face lie to get these people fired up about being a conservative? How can you actually win an election like that? There is no way that would fly in Canada. You need facts, empirical evidence, logical arguments, etc... These things should be what dictate an election, not fear mongering, brain washing and lying. The fact that this works, and that youre so happy someone understands this is how something works, is frightening from an outside perspective. The most powerful nation in the world can be won over by cheap lies and radical fearful rhetoric. This alone is proof your education system needs an urgent overhaul, and not in the direction of homeschooling like some of the republicans seem to want. Here's something that will really mindfuck you: republicans believe that democrats enjoy an electoral advantage from the current education system. The line of thought goes something like this: The public school system is a bastion of liberal thought and indoctrination for lack of a better way of putting it. The result is that the public school system churns out all sorts of liberally-minded young people who are unable to think critically for themselves, and are thus prone to voting for the intellectually easy, touchy-feely liberal policies (namely fiscally liberal policies). More education leads to intellectually easy ideas and less critical thinking. Ahhh, xDaunt how can I get angry at you when you say such adorable things? I suppose it would be too much to ask for proof that better educated people think less critically or are more vulnerable to indoctrination. Besides, why would that give liberals an advantage? Our education system sucks. The education system does suck. The problem that I was referring do was teachers imparting their political bias upon their students. And what, are we really going to pretend that the vast majority of teachers in this country aren't democrats and that there is no liberal bias pushed upon kids in class? Anyone who has been through the public school system knows what the score is. Uh yes. I dispute that. Because it's not true. Especially fiscal policy geez. You really think teachers have a goal to push liberal bias on you? That's conspiratorial and absurd. Oh no! The eeeeevil education system. Please elaborate for my amusement. you think it's absurd that a person will teach toward their bias? Remember, we're talking public school and liberal fiscal policy. What high school class would government fiscal policy come into play where the bias wouldn't be blatantly obvious? My junior year high school history teacher taught the IB History of the Americas course. It was a constant liberal shit show on a whole range of topics, but we spent a lot of time learning about how trickle down economics doesn't work and that FDR-style keynsianism was the way to go.
And? My high school AP US history teacher showed us movies on how evolution is not true and the flagella is irreducibly complex. He would force debates on topics like why homosexuality is a sin and homosexual marriage should never be legalized and if you disagreed he'll pray for you. A few of my current PhD classmates who came from the south had teachers who would refuse to teach evolution. I've had far more experiences of teachers with a conservative bent going off the course topic and actually spend class time spreading their ideology. But you know what, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
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EPT
