On August 12 2011 14:54 Equity213 wrote: Im not one of those PETA freaks, but is this shit really necessary? Even zoos dont seem to be worth the mild amusement we get from them.
Theres nothing wrong with eating animals, but do we really have to torture them and keep them in cages?
i don't get how people are able to make a distinction between killing/torturing animals for amusement (like in zoos or bullfights) and killing/torturing animals to be able to eat that burger (that only makes us sick and none of us really needs to survive) or to wear those leather sneakers. it's the same thing, don't be hypocritical.
also... go vegan!
respect.
Ask the native Americans. The tribes that hunted the buffaloes would recycle nearly everything about the animal with food. Could they have gone and make their living by farming and what not? Sure, but it would have been a pain in the ass for them. Although they did kill the animals, they did so with respect and displayed it by utilizing their resources. However, come the Americans who hunted the animals just to shoot them.
btw please don't do that stupid vegan crap. It's annoying.
again no one is gonna probably read this nor reply but:
OP just said that the bears were fitted with an iron vest in order to prevent the bears from killing themselves by "punching themselves in the stomach."
again does this insinuate the idea of them being sentient beings to some extent?
On August 12 2011 14:54 Equity213 wrote: Im not one of those PETA freaks, but is this shit really necessary? Even zoos dont seem to be worth the mild amusement we get from them.
Theres nothing wrong with eating animals, but do we really have to torture them and keep them in cages?
i don't get how people are able to make a distinction between killing/torturing animals for amusement (like in zoos or bullfights) and killing/torturing animals to be able to eat that burger (that only makes us sick and none of us really needs to survive) or to wear those leather sneakers. it's the same thing, don't be hypocritical.
also... go vegan!
respect.
Ask the native Americans. The tribes that hunted the buffaloes would recycle nearly everything about the animal with food. Could they have gone and make their living by farming and what not? Sure, but it would have been a pain in the ass for them. Although they did kill the animals, they did so with respect and displayed it by utilizing their resources. However, come the Americans who hunted the animals just to shoot them.
btw please don't do that stupid vegan crap. It's annoying.
well, you're right. but i'm not talking about tribesmen hunting animals to survive (i don't have any problem with those). i'm talking about modern society and our treatment of animals... wich clearly lacks that respect you're talking about. i was merely pointing out the hypocrisy in people complaining about zoos and getting a fat burger in some fast food store afterwards, nothing more.
also, i'm not quite sure what you mean by "that stupid vegan crap"... if you mean just throwing out a slogan like "go vegan" like i did in my previous post, then you're probably right that it doesn't add anything to the discussion in this thread. so let me apologize.
if you mean actually living a vegan lifestyle, we'll have to agree to disagree here.
This just seems like propoganda to me. "Breaking news: someone has claimed to witness..." It really doesn't matter how you finish that sentence. This kind of behaviour has to be noted in a controlled setting to mean anything, not just hearsay by a couple of zookeepers who were probably very excited to be in the news. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence.
On August 13 2011 13:50 heroyi wrote: again no one is gonna probably read this nor reply but:
OP just said that the bears were fitted with an iron vest in order to prevent the bears from killing themselves by "punching themselves in the stomach."
again does this insinuate the idea of them being sentient beings to some extent?
I wouldn't really think of that as sentient. It's more like animal instinct. In this case, all the bear wants to do is to get rid of the pain. The only sensible solution, albeit to the bear, is to kill itself so that it can stop experiencing that pain.
There are many instances of animals exhibiting queer behavior but it all boils down to them wanting to escape their predicament.
On August 13 2011 13:50 heroyi wrote: again no one is gonna probably read this nor reply but:
OP just said that the bears were fitted with an iron vest in order to prevent the bears from killing themselves by "punching themselves in the stomach."
again does this insinuate the idea of them being sentient beings to some extent?
What do you mean sentient. I would argue that at least most mammals have some kind of sentience. Sentience is not an on/off switch, and since ours seems to be well on the way, species close to us probably have to have some kind of it.
EDIT:As for the OP. Unfortunately it is China, not much chance to remedy the situation. Animal rights become important in societies when they are rich enough for a longer time. China is not there yet, frankly 1st world is not really there yet just more down the line. And China is powerful enough to be able to ignore any political pressure.
On August 12 2011 15:04 rift wrote: Traditional Chinese medicine is a farce just like any other form of medicine lacking clinically-proven efficacy. Of course, people all over the world believe in imaginary deities and fictional history, so I'm sure this is considered completely rational to uneducated "practitioners".
You're not the first expert on chinese medicine that's popped up here. I think it's stupid to suggest that natural medicine with thousands of years of history behind it has nothing to offer.
Most of it is utter bullshit.
And you base this on... your complete understanding of the human body? There are many practices that see great success, and whether it is purely placebo, or actually "helps", is irrelevant. If the person is not in pain, they aren't in pain. Unfortunately, we would all like it if we had a better understanding of our own bodies, but compared to how much we don't know, we really know closer to nothing.
On August 12 2011 15:04 rift wrote: Traditional Chinese medicine is a farce just like any other suggested medicine lacking clinically-proven efficacy. Of course, people all over the world believe in imaginary deities and fictional history, so I'm sure this is considered completely rational to its uneducated "practitioners".
Above is an absurd post. Every single cure lacks clinical proof at some point. The point of clinical study is to check for side effects and prove efficacy for legal reasons. It doesn't turn something from a farce into a reality.
This is an interesting OP. If mercy killing is a good thing then this bear demonstrated morality for some reason other than self preservation or community preservation. If mercy killing is a bad thing then the bear did something either morally evil or proved that torture will induce insanity.
Why did a mod say to leave animal rights discussion out of an incident that is clearly a great reason to bring it up? I don't understand you sometimes, TL moderation.
On August 13 2011 13:32 Valestrum wrote: That's terrible.. That being said it would have been fun to watch and I'm still going to order all the products that support things like this anyways because I don't really care enough to go out of the way to stop it. Does that make me a bad person?
I think the fact that you said
That's terrible..
proves you don't support things of that nature. But the fact that 1. you lied about believing this is terrible or 2. exaggerate for attention is bad..
On August 13 2011 15:44 Vei wrote: Why did a mod say to leave animal rights discussion out of an incident that is clearly a great reason to bring it up? I don't understand you sometimes, TL moderation.
a fantastic story, but perhaps too fantastic. if only one person recounted this, then I really doubt its veracity. for better or worse, animal rights activists are extremely driven. If I were one, I don't think I'd see any harm in making up a touching story to play the media and attract great attention to my cause.
On August 13 2011 15:44 Vei wrote: Why did a mod say to leave animal rights discussion out of an incident that is clearly a great reason to bring it up? I don't understand you sometimes, TL moderation.
Because talking about animal rights would probably bring a whole lot of assertion of the "facts" (whatever they may be) and not much informed discussion.
On August 12 2011 19:16 wussleeQ wrote: @neoghaleon55 They don't kill the bears because they are using their bile for cures and by killing the bear, you can't milk them every day (It does seem like a very brutal procedure but it's just something they do)
Not only that but our cultures are much different than theirs and who are we to judge them (for example they can eat dogs and we keep them as pets)?
Basically, my point is that people should understand that people who do things like this are not heartless (well not all of them at least) but that the things they do in their lives are normal to them and is just their way of making a living.
I cannot condone this kind of thinking at all. It is called relativist ethics and it's retarded. Basically, you're saying we're not allowed to judge anyone no matter how evil and inhumane they act because everybody's right in their own way.... So we shouldn't judge the murdering bastards around us? Like Kim J. Ill, he's would be just fine and dandy if nobody could judge him.
I think this story is a bullshit. The mother hugged and then strangled it's baby? Yea right, she probably ripped it apart. She ran into a wall and killed herself? Right... how many times, ten?
Noone did anything? Some guy says he saw it? One person? Bullshit.
On August 13 2011 11:15 Alexstrasas wrote: Also if anyone is wondering, I personally started studying TCM as soon as I finished school, but my teachers and the most prominent TCM specialists in my country all have a medical degree.
Actually this is in 95%+ cases complete bullshit. Most of the TCM specialists who "claim" they have a medical degree actually just paid some cash for a faked degree. In fact this is so widespread, that it's pretty much common knowledge.
yeah bro, i guess things are pretty fucked up in canada then, here in europe you cant just pay for a faked degree as there are medical orders that control that sort of stuff
also in case you didnt know, here in europe there are plenty or regular universities that teach TCM officialy
On August 12 2011 14:53 travis wrote: Bears have very thick skulls. I doubt it could run into a wall and kill itself.
That said, is what is attested to here actually legal?
I don't think thickness of the skull actually matters... the brain isnt held into place tightly in the head.. so i think the brain could hit the wall of the skull and kill the bear. Running into a wall to kill itself sounds weird but bears can run pretty fast!
EPT
