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Mother Bear kills cub then self at chinese farm - Page 34
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Leave the animal rights and treatment discussion out of this topic. Thanks. -Nyovne | ||
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Kouji
Germany53 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5600 Posts
On August 13 2011 12:28 Blasterion wrote: well then, at least pay some respect to your own culture. or has living in the West gotten you turned around against your own? There is traditional medecin in all countries. Don't make this a question of nationality - it will only lead to more people bashing China instead of seeing the question at hand. (Sorry if this is off topic) | ||
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BBS
Germany204 Posts
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Barack Obama
27 Posts
Furthermore, if you care about ending bear bile farming, the main organisation that advocates against it internationally is WSPA: http://www.wspa.org.uk/wspaswork/bears/default.aspx ![[image loading]](http://thisisacryforhelp.webs.com/wspa.jpg) | ||
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Ruken
United States858 Posts
On August 13 2011 20:42 Barack Obama wrote: If you haven't seen it yet, the Earthlings documentary reveals cruelties such as these (mostly in the US): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DddFKzOgjqQ Furthermore, if you care about ending bear bile farming, the main organisation that advocates against it internationally is WSPA: http://www.wspa.org.uk/wspaswork/bears/default.aspx When I get a real job I'm putting so much time and money into ending this ****. | ||
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captainobvious
Canada21 Posts
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
On August 13 2011 20:13 Kouji wrote: just shows how fucked up china is and not even bears want to live there. Oh yeah, generalisation ftw, i was wondering how kfc "treats" their chickens -_- | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
On August 14 2011 04:54 Ruken wrote: When I get a real job I'm putting so much time and money into ending this ****. I am pretty sure unless your real job is president of the US it won't matter in the least. | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
On August 13 2011 13:50 heroyi wrote: again no one is gonna probably read this nor reply but: OP just said that the bears were fitted with an iron vest in order to prevent the bears from killing themselves by "punching themselves in the stomach." again does this insinuate the idea of them being sentient beings to some extent? Ofcourse bears are sentient beings. So are all animals and almost all plants. What you mean is reasoning beings perhaps? | ||
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Aberu
United States968 Posts
On August 14 2011 05:33 brachester wrote: Oh yeah, generalisation ftw, i was wondering how kfc "treats" their chickens -_- At least we use that to eat, they are using bear bile to unscientifically and unsuccessfully treat things because of ancient beliefs. Eating chicken does give you nourishment, this bear bile crap does nothing. | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
On August 14 2011 05:45 Aberu wrote: Traditional Chinese Medicine is immoral. Always has been, just maybe China will wake up and start protesting it after this news story. At least we use that to eat, they are using bear bile to unscientifically and unsuccessfully treat things because of ancient beliefs. Eating chicken does give you nourishment, this bear bile crap does nothing. You know a lot of pharmaceutical medicine is produced by experiments on animals, plants AND people. Infact, forget medicines, a lot of cosmetics, shampoos, lotions are also made by experimenting on animals. Not to mention how your gas comes from the oppression and abuse of humans. You don't need these things to survive. Also honestly, since you are german shame on you for this kind of generalization. Its like you have forgotten the history of your country and your continent completely. edit: Sorry I got Aberu and Kouji confused. Doesn't change the main point though. | ||
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sRapers_ValkS
United States644 Posts
On August 14 2011 05:45 Aberu wrote: Traditional Chinese Medicine is immoral. Always has been, just maybe China will wake up and start protesting it after this news story. At least we use that to eat, they are using bear bile to unscientifically and unsuccessfully treat things because of ancient beliefs. Eating chicken does give you nourishment, this bear bile crap does nothing. That's a huge generalization. A lot of TCM just uses herbs and things. We always hear about the horror stories and therefore it's simplified into being "immoral". relax. THIS kind of TCM is immoral. agreed 100%. | ||
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Figgy
Canada1788 Posts
Just look at the front page of that website and tell me anything on that site is actually legit. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On August 13 2011 20:13 Kouji wrote: just shows how fucked up china is and not even bears want to live there. And so you europeans think you're so much better because you only read bad news from China | ||
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imEnex
Canada500 Posts
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iloveav
Poland1482 Posts
That beeing said, i belive it was an act of desperation, and that would explain both behaviours. Many humans exibit extreme strength out of fury or anger, so i belive both statements are possible. On account of animal cruelty, i think its something hard to overcome, except on a personal note if you are a vegetarian. I do belive however, that everyone still can help by trying to be good to the animals he meets in his life. Its not much, but its better than having a cold heart to not feel affected when we discover something like this. | ||
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Jacobs Ladder
United States1705 Posts
On August 14 2011 05:50 redviper wrote: You know a lot of pharmaceutical medicine is produced by experiments on animals, plants AND people. Infact, forget medicines, a lot of cosmetics, shampoos, lotions are also made by experimenting on animals. Not to mention how your gas comes from the oppression and abuse of humans. You don't need these things to survive. I support medical testing on animals. Its incredibly important and has lead to a massive number of breakthroughs that save lives every single day. To say that the suffering of an animal is more important than the lives of millions of people is short sighted and I believe it is wrong. At the same time I oppose the testing of cosmetics on animals. It can be done other ways and has only minor, superficial, completely replaceable impacts on the over all quality of life of humans. The difference between the two should be intuitivly seen by almost anyone. While some people can oppose medical testing on moral grounds, believing the lives of animals are equivalent to those of humans, I do not fall into that camp. Bear bile extraction isn't for the good of man. It is cruel, inhumane, and appears to be pointless considering the compounds that might actually have worth can be made synthetically. There is no reason to continue farming it. I have trouble even forming an argument in its defense and I do not count cultural preservation as a valid argument. Also honestly, since you are german shame on you for this kind of generalization. Its like you have forgotten the history of your country and your continent completely. No reasonable person will condemn all of China for this incident. Anyone who does is simply put, a bigot. Attempting to condemn all of Germany for that actions of their ancestors makes you a bigot. | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
On August 14 2011 20:29 Jacobs Ladder wrote: I support medical testing on animals. Its incredibly important and has lead to a massive number of breakthroughs that save lives every single day. To say that the suffering of an animal is more important than the lives of millions of people is short sighted and I believe it is wrong. At the same time I oppose the testing of cosmetics on animals. It can be done other ways and has only minor, superficial, completely replaceable impacts on the over all quality of life of humans. The difference between the two should be intuitivly seen by almost anyone. While some people can oppose medical testing on moral grounds, believing the lives of animals are equivalent to those of humans, I do not fall into that camp. Bear bile extraction isn't for the good of man. It is cruel, inhumane, and appears to be pointless considering the compounds that might actually have worth can be made synthetically. There is no reason to continue farming it. I have trouble even forming an argument in its defense and I do not count cultural preservation as a valid argument. No reasonable person will condemn all of China for this incident. Anyone who does is simply put, a bigot. Attempting to condemn all of Germany for that actions of their ancestors makes you a bigot. Firstly, you are really misreading what I said. I am pointing out that using this kind of generalization shows a complete disregard of the history of his own continent and his own nation. The same can be applied to Germany in much worse terms. Actually the same can be said for the US, given the extent of the native american genocide and slavery. The point was, and is, that condemning china for doing something in such a harsh way is not only bigoted but racist and it completely ignores the history of his own country. Secondly, scientifically its very hard to find a good reason to continue animal testing. There are not extensive molecular simulations that can analyze the interaction of drugs with the human body. Drugs can be tested for safety in vitro and for efficacy in vivo. But you do understand that the pharma companies that the previous poster was crowing about have tested drugs on unwilling subjects - human subjects? If TCM is immoral, so is modern medicine. Wasn't so long ago that the US government somewhat apologized for infecting prisoners in a foreign country and in their own country with syphilis to test penicillin. Thirdly, cultural preservation is only not an argument when its your culture subsuming others and other cultures being threatened. Today in the US and Europe people are fighting to protect their culture from a completely ephemeral threat of "sharia". In that past the west has fought many wars, cold and otherwise, to protect their way of life. But protecting chinese culture and way of life is suddenly immoral and not a valid argument? It sucks that the bear was mistreated so terribly that she committed suicide. I have no argument against that. The solution is not to ban TCM but to look for acceptable ways to extract the bile that are not inhumane. Likewise I feel that fois gras is an embarrassment to the entire western culture. But I don't say lets condemn any country producing fois gras. I say lets do it more humanely. | ||
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Spitfire
South Africa442 Posts
Factory farming in America, seal clubbing in Canada, theres examples of insane animal cruelty all over the world, and sadly we buy products every day that support those industries without realizing it. | ||
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QuoC
United States724 Posts
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