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On August 07 2011 06:27 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +Ah the whole "Organic food is awesome" and "Conventional food is super bad" discussion. Considering that in the past 50 years, where people have been mainly eating conventional food, the average life span and generall health increased, just shows how unhealthy those conventional foods are. How dare you point this out, conventional food is dane-jerrr-us!
I'd like to see him explicitly identify what was meant by 'generall health increased'.
life span is increasing, yes, but obesity, cancer, heart disease, hypertension, diabetes and a slough of other food-related health disorders are way up.
I also like how 'organic' is somehow treated as the opposite of 'conventional'. When did this conceptual shift occur? Food since the dawn of time, except for the past 20-35 years has been organic.
Nothing against food that isn't organic per se, but its fairly important to be educated about where your food comes from and what goes into it.
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This reminds me of a local farm making apple cider. The gov shut them down because they didn't put chemicals in it or something. They were around for 200 years and they still make it but you have to "donate" money to buy it
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On August 07 2011 06:25 Cyba wrote:
At any rate nobody will ever die of drinkin a lil bad milk and it's certainly a really good product if you handle it right.
That beeing said the police just did their job maybe with a little too much passion, the legislation is idd retarded but that's just because most people are too and in the US they seem to love to sue.
Do more research on the topic before you make assumptions my friend.
Foodborne Illness.
E. Coli O157:H7 is a relativity new strain which is extremely virulent.
We have to remember that bacteria and viruses are always genetically mutating(at extremely fast rates, faster then we can deal with them as health professionals). What this means for us is that we have to take preventative measures in order to ensure none of these new pathogens gets into our food supply.
I guarantee you there will be more antibiotic resistant and more virulent strains of microbes in the near future and when an epidemic (Or God forbid pandemic occurs), and people die, they will once again blame the government for not doing enough to prevent it. If an epidemic is detoured though, no one will know, and no one will receive praise, but as long as everyone is unharmed, that is enough satisfaction for me.
Also, how can you assume that the milk will be handled safely? The answer is you can't , so the best advice and preventative measures a company can do is to pasteurize the milk. It will cost them more upfront, but save them millions in possible cases where people can get very sick.
Honestly there should not even be an argument on pasteurization. Its almost as absurd as saying people should drink unfiltered turbid water. You filter water to clean up the bad stuff in the same way you heat up (or pasteurize) the milk to kill the bad stuff. The list goes on, that's why people rarely die from cholera in the developed world, in the same sense why people die from cholera in third world countries.
Edit:On August 07 2011 06:31 DeepElemBlues wrote:You'll find lots of people who disagree and view Omega 3 as a scam.
My personal view on all of the Omegas, not just 3s are good for your health. Its a relatively a new concept, but the medical world is slowly, but truly beginning to realize their significance. I'm no expert on the subject so here is a link that may explain some things. I got this link after watching a world renown doctor talk about it on the the Dr. Oz show, Omega 3
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On August 07 2011 06:49 NET wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 06:25 Cyba wrote:
At any rate nobody will ever die of drinkin a lil bad milk and it's certainly a really good product if you handle it right.
That beeing said the police just did their job maybe with a little too much passion, the legislation is idd retarded but that's just because most people are too and in the US they seem to love to sue. Do more research on the topic before you make assumptions my friend. Foodborne Illness. E. Coli O157:H7 is a relativity new strain which is extremely virulent. We have to remember that bacteria and viruses are always genetically mutating(at extremely fast rates, faster then we can deal with them as health professionals). What this means for us is that we have to take preventative measures in order to ensure none of these new pathogens gets into our food supply. I guarantee you there will be more antibiotic resistant and more virulent strains of microbes in the near future and when an epidemic (Or God forbid pandemic occurs), and people die, they will once again blame the government for not doing enough to prevent it. If an epidemic is detoured though, no one will know, and no one will receive praise, but as long as everyone is unharmed, that is enough satisfaction for me. Also, how can you assume that the milk will be handled safely? The answer is you can't , so the best advice and preventative measures a company can do is to pasteurize the milk. It will cost them more upfront, but save them millions in possible cases where people can get very sick. Honestly there should not even be an argument on pasteurization. Its almost as absurd as saying people should drink unfiltered turbid water. You filter water to clean up the bad stuff in the same way you heat up (or pasteurize) the milk to kill the bad stuff. The list goes on, that's why people rarely die from cholera in the developed world, in the same sense why people die from cholera in third world countries.
nah ur wrong. i don't need an organization to uphold food standards for me. water from a river is super safe because it's from nature and anything that is in it is NUTRIENTS. people drank river water for 9684 years and were fine, you can't explain that.
and how is raw milk unsafe i mean it comes from a cow. FROM A COW. did you know that in some cultures cows are revered creatures?
the FDA is just a mob organization that wants to make money off the american people by squashing small-time farmers. how can they allow the sale of controlled substances that require years of research and are conducted by trained professionals who've probably studied for near a decade, but they won't allow random joe's off the street sell milk?
i mean, i've heard of people mixing liquor in their bathtubs at home then selling it in stores and that's perfectly legal (or maybe it was in a movie i saw, or maybe documentary, i don't remember better say documentary). i've got you're answer buddy and you ain't gonna like it.
FASCISM.
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On August 07 2011 07:02 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 06:49 NET wrote:On August 07 2011 06:25 Cyba wrote:
At any rate nobody will ever die of drinkin a lil bad milk and it's certainly a really good product if you handle it right.
That beeing said the police just did their job maybe with a little too much passion, the legislation is idd retarded but that's just because most people are too and in the US they seem to love to sue. Do more research on the topic before you make assumptions my friend. Foodborne Illness. E. Coli O157:H7 is a relativity new strain which is extremely virulent. We have to remember that bacteria and viruses are always genetically mutating(at extremely fast rates, faster then we can deal with them as health professionals). What this means for us is that we have to take preventative measures in order to ensure none of these new pathogens gets into our food supply. I guarantee you there will be more antibiotic resistant and more virulent strains of microbes in the near future and when an epidemic (Or God forbid pandemic occurs), and people die, they will once again blame the government for not doing enough to prevent it. If an epidemic is detoured though, no one will know, and no one will receive praise, but as long as everyone is unharmed, that is enough satisfaction for me. Also, how can you assume that the milk will be handled safely? The answer is you can't , so the best advice and preventative measures a company can do is to pasteurize the milk. It will cost them more upfront, but save them millions in possible cases where people can get very sick. Honestly there should not even be an argument on pasteurization. Its almost as absurd as saying people should drink unfiltered turbid water. You filter water to clean up the bad stuff in the same way you heat up (or pasteurize) the milk to kill the bad stuff. The list goes on, that's why people rarely die from cholera in the developed world, in the same sense why people die from cholera in third world countries. nah ur wrong. i don't need an organization to uphold food standards for me. water from a river is super safe because it's from nature and anything that is in it is NUTRIENTS. people drank river water for 9684 years and were fine, you can't explain that. and how is raw milk unsafe i mean it comes from a cow. FROM A COW. did you know that in some cultures cows are revered creatures? the FDA is just a mob organization that wants to make money off the american people by squashing small-time farmers. how can they allow the sale of controlled substances that require years of research and are conducted by trained professionals who've probably studied for near a decade, but they won't allow random joe's off the street sell milk? i mean, i've heard of people mixing liquor in their bathtubs at home then selling it in stores and that's perfectly legal (or maybe it was in a movie i saw, or maybe documentary, i don't remember better say documentary). i've got you're answer buddy and you ain't gonna like it. FASCISM.
You're either trolling or extremely fucking stupid...
User was warned for this post
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On August 07 2011 07:02 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 06:49 NET wrote:On August 07 2011 06:25 Cyba wrote:
At any rate nobody will ever die of drinkin a lil bad milk and it's certainly a really good product if you handle it right.
That beeing said the police just did their job maybe with a little too much passion, the legislation is idd retarded but that's just because most people are too and in the US they seem to love to sue. Do more research on the topic before you make assumptions my friend. Foodborne Illness. E. Coli O157:H7 is a relativity new strain which is extremely virulent. We have to remember that bacteria and viruses are always genetically mutating(at extremely fast rates, faster then we can deal with them as health professionals). What this means for us is that we have to take preventative measures in order to ensure none of these new pathogens gets into our food supply. I guarantee you there will be more antibiotic resistant and more virulent strains of microbes in the near future and when an epidemic (Or God forbid pandemic occurs), and people die, they will once again blame the government for not doing enough to prevent it. If an epidemic is detoured though, no one will know, and no one will receive praise, but as long as everyone is unharmed, that is enough satisfaction for me. Also, how can you assume that the milk will be handled safely? The answer is you can't , so the best advice and preventative measures a company can do is to pasteurize the milk. It will cost them more upfront, but save them millions in possible cases where people can get very sick. Honestly there should not even be an argument on pasteurization. Its almost as absurd as saying people should drink unfiltered turbid water. You filter water to clean up the bad stuff in the same way you heat up (or pasteurize) the milk to kill the bad stuff. The list goes on, that's why people rarely die from cholera in the developed world, in the same sense why people die from cholera in third world countries. nah ur wrong. i don't need an organization to uphold food standards for me. water from a river is super safe because it's from nature and anything that is in it is NUTRIENTS. people drank river water for 9684 years and were fine, you can't explain that. and how is raw milk unsafe i mean it comes from a cow. FROM A COW. did you know that in some cultures cows are revered creatures? the FDA is just a mob organization that wants to make money off the american people by squashing small-time farmers. how can they allow the sale of controlled substances that require years of research and are conducted by trained professionals who've probably studied for near a decade, but they won't allow random joe's off the street sell milk? i mean, i've heard of people mixing liquor in their bathtubs at home then selling it in stores and that's perfectly legal (or maybe it was in a movie i saw, or maybe documentary, i don't remember better say documentary). i've got you're answer buddy and you ain't gonna like it. FASCISM.
Well played sir. Lets start from the top.
"nah ur wrong. i don't need an organization to uphold food standards for me. water from a river is super safe because it's from nature and anything that is in it is NUTRIENTS. people drank river water for 9684 years and were fine, you can't explain that."
This answer can actually vary. How do you know the water you are drinking doesn't contain human feces from somewhere upstream.That's asking to get an illness, and potentially life threatening depending on the circumstance. Also those nutrients are what is causing our lakes and other water sources to become eutrophic. Very sad indeed, but that is of a different subject matter.
"and how is raw milk unsafe i mean it comes from a cow. FROM A COW. did you know that in some cultures cows are revered creatures? "
I'm not here to judge other cultures, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but it is when their beliefs can begin to threaten a child's, elderly's, or sick person's life is when we should regulate certain food products such as milk.
"the FDA is just a mob organization that wants to make money off the american people by squashing small-time farmers. how can they allow the sale of controlled substances that require years of research and are conducted by trained professionals who've probably studied for near a decade, but they won't allow random joe's off the street sell milk?"
A strange argument, but I think it deals with the portraying the government as a bully, and that is completely understandable. No one wants their entire life to be controlled by the government. Its embedded in us as (US) Americans to have freedom of speech and all the other good stuff that comes with it, but when an illegal vendor, or any vendor of the sorts are selling products which potentially have the power to make people extremely sick, then I say we make sure as hell that we have some sort of regulating agency to help keep that person or business in check. Most businesses, even the beloved small business' main goal is to make profit. They will, alot of times, cut corners on simple things such as basic hygiene and proper (and perhaps more time consuming) methods in order to make a faster buck.
"i mean, i've heard of people mixing liquor in their bathtubs at home then selling it in stores and that's perfectly legal (or maybe it was in a movie i saw, or maybe documentary, i don't remember better say documentary). i've got you're answer buddy and you ain't gonna like it."
Sounds like illegal moonshining to me. Which is illegal afaik.
"FASCISM"
"Fascists promote violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.[7] Fascists view conflict as a fact of life that is responsible for all human progress.[8] Fascists exalt militarism as providing positive transformation in society, in providing spiritual renovation, education, instilling of a will to dominate in people's character, and creating national comradeship through military service.[9] Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violent attacks on opponents, or to overthrow a political system.[10]"Fascism.
There's no violence promotion or nationalism going on here, just preventative measures trying to ensure the overall health of the public.
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Unpasteurized milk can be very dangerous specially in younger and older people. You aren't even allowed to buy it in the US for a reason. Now most people have never seen unpasteurized milk for that reason, now think about what happens if someone buys some milk thinking it's pasteurized and ends up giving it to their young child who then becomes very sick with diarrhea, stomach bug, or an even worse bug that was bothering the cow at the time. The kid could die because a company was trying to save a buck.
Now I think specialized cheese making companies should be able to buy unpasteurized milk in the US and that the pasteurizing process should be a bit slower, (the 3 ways you can pasteurize milk is 30 minutes at 130, 15 minutes at 160, or the final "ultra pasteurized" process used too often: 1 min at 200. The slower you go the more flavor the milk has. This US law regarding pasteurized milk has been around along time.
Rawesome foods was trying to get away with something plainly said just about everywhere. What they did is basically the same as running a red light and then running up on the curb to get to another street, almost hitting a crowd of people in the process. I hope no one got sick from a companies desire to save a buck on heating milk. If they did what they did to be the company that sells unpasteurized products, they should have moved to a country that allows it.
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Edited out. not feeding. seeing how it develops.
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On August 07 2011 07:39 Nacl(Draq) wrote:
Unpasteurized milk can be very dangerous specially in younger and older people. You aren't even allowed to buy it in the US for a reason. Now most people have never seen unpasteurized milk for that reason, now think about what happens if someone buys some milk thinking it's pasteurized and ends up giving it to their young child who then becomes very sick with diarrhea, stomach bug, or an even worse bug that was bothering the cow at the time. The kid could die because a company was trying to save a buck.
Now I think specialized cheese making companies should be able to buy unpasteurized milk in the US and that the pasteurizing process should be a bit slower, (the 3 ways you can pasteurize milk is 30 minutes at 130, 15 minutes at 160, or the final "ultra pasteurized" process used too often: 1 min at 200. The slower you go the more flavor the milk has. This US law regarding pasteurized milk has been around along time.
Rawesome foods was trying to get away with something plainly said just about everywhere. What they did is basically the same as running a red light and then running up on the curb to get to another street, almost hitting a crowd of people in the process. I hope no one got sick from a companies desire to save a buck on heating milk. If they did what they did to be the company that sells unpasteurized products, they should have moved to a country that allows it.
you are allowed to buy it. This is absolutely incorrect.
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On August 07 2011 07:31 Ethic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 07:02 mahnini wrote:On August 07 2011 06:49 NET wrote:On August 07 2011 06:25 Cyba wrote:
At any rate nobody will ever die of drinkin a lil bad milk and it's certainly a really good product if you handle it right.
That beeing said the police just did their job maybe with a little too much passion, the legislation is idd retarded but that's just because most people are too and in the US they seem to love to sue. Do more research on the topic before you make assumptions my friend. Foodborne Illness. E. Coli O157:H7 is a relativity new strain which is extremely virulent. We have to remember that bacteria and viruses are always genetically mutating(at extremely fast rates, faster then we can deal with them as health professionals). What this means for us is that we have to take preventative measures in order to ensure none of these new pathogens gets into our food supply. I guarantee you there will be more antibiotic resistant and more virulent strains of microbes in the near future and when an epidemic (Or God forbid pandemic occurs), and people die, they will once again blame the government for not doing enough to prevent it. If an epidemic is detoured though, no one will know, and no one will receive praise, but as long as everyone is unharmed, that is enough satisfaction for me. Also, how can you assume that the milk will be handled safely? The answer is you can't , so the best advice and preventative measures a company can do is to pasteurize the milk. It will cost them more upfront, but save them millions in possible cases where people can get very sick. Honestly there should not even be an argument on pasteurization. Its almost as absurd as saying people should drink unfiltered turbid water. You filter water to clean up the bad stuff in the same way you heat up (or pasteurize) the milk to kill the bad stuff. The list goes on, that's why people rarely die from cholera in the developed world, in the same sense why people die from cholera in third world countries. nah ur wrong. i don't need an organization to uphold food standards for me. water from a river is super safe because it's from nature and anything that is in it is NUTRIENTS. people drank river water for 9684 years and were fine, you can't explain that. and how is raw milk unsafe i mean it comes from a cow. FROM A COW. did you know that in some cultures cows are revered creatures? the FDA is just a mob organization that wants to make money off the american people by squashing small-time farmers. how can they allow the sale of controlled substances that require years of research and are conducted by trained professionals who've probably studied for near a decade, but they won't allow random joe's off the street sell milk? i mean, i've heard of people mixing liquor in their bathtubs at home then selling it in stores and that's perfectly legal (or maybe it was in a movie i saw, or maybe documentary, i don't remember better say documentary). i've got you're answer buddy and you ain't gonna like it. FASCISM. You're either trolling or extremely fucking stupid...
Neither. It's sarcasm. You need to have your sarcasm detector readjusted.
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The issue with raw milk isn't that it's about your right to put whatever you want in your body. I have no issues with people who want to put whatever inside their body, regardless of the personal consequences or health risks. The problems is that raw milk doesn't comply to the regulations needed to guarantee milk is safe. It's perfectly within your right to put something dangerous in your body, but the risk of food poisoning and various possible outbreaks thanks to lack of regulation means that consumption of raw milk isn't an issue that relates purely to the individual that engages in the activity. The problem concerns more then just one person.
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On August 07 2011 07:42 caradoc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 07:34 NET wrote:On August 07 2011 07:02 mahnini wrote:On August 07 2011 06:49 NET wrote:On August 07 2011 06:25 Cyba wrote:
At any rate nobody will ever die of drinkin a lil bad milk and it's certainly a really good product if you handle it right.
That beeing said the police just did their job maybe with a little too much passion, the legislation is idd retarded but that's just because most people are too and in the US they seem to love to sue. Do more research on the topic before you make assumptions my friend. Foodborne Illness. E. Coli O157:H7 is a relativity new strain which is extremely virulent. We have to remember that bacteria and viruses are always genetically mutating(at extremely fast rates, faster then we can deal with them as health professionals). What this means for us is that we have to take preventative measures in order to ensure none of these new pathogens gets into our food supply. I guarantee you there will be more antibiotic resistant and more virulent strains of microbes in the near future and when an epidemic (Or God forbid pandemic occurs), and people die, they will once again blame the government for not doing enough to prevent it. If an epidemic is detoured though, no one will know, and no one will receive praise, but as long as everyone is unharmed, that is enough satisfaction for me. Also, how can you assume that the milk will be handled safely? The answer is you can't , so the best advice and preventative measures a company can do is to pasteurize the milk. It will cost them more upfront, but save them millions in possible cases where people can get very sick. Honestly there should not even be an argument on pasteurization. Its almost as absurd as saying people should drink unfiltered turbid water. You filter water to clean up the bad stuff in the same way you heat up (or pasteurize) the milk to kill the bad stuff. The list goes on, that's why people rarely die from cholera in the developed world, in the same sense why people die from cholera in third world countries. nah ur wrong. i don't need an organization to uphold food standards for me. water from a river is super safe because it's from nature and anything that is in it is NUTRIENTS. people drank river water for 9684 years and were fine, you can't explain that. and how is raw milk unsafe i mean it comes from a cow. FROM A COW. did you know that in some cultures cows are revered creatures? the FDA is just a mob organization that wants to make money off the american people by squashing small-time farmers. how can they allow the sale of controlled substances that require years of research and are conducted by trained professionals who've probably studied for near a decade, but they won't allow random joe's off the street sell milk? i mean, i've heard of people mixing liquor in their bathtubs at home then selling it in stores and that's perfectly legal (or maybe it was in a movie i saw, or maybe documentary, i don't remember better say documentary). i've got you're answer buddy and you ain't gonna like it. FASCISM. Well played sir. Lets start from the top. "nah ur wrong. i don't need an organization to uphold food standards for me. water from a river is super safe because it's from nature and anything that is in it is NUTRIENTS. people drank river water for 9684 years and were fine, you can't explain that." This answer can actually vary. How do you know the water you are drinking doesn't contain human feces from somewhere upstream.That's asking to get an illness, and potentially life threatening depending on the circumstance. Also those nutrients are what is causing our lakes and other water sources to become eutrophic. Very sad indeed, but that is of a different subject matter. Eutrophication is more due to industrial fertilizers. Show nested quote +
"and how is raw milk unsafe i mean it comes from a cow. FROM A COW. did you know that in some cultures cows are revered creatures? "
I'm not here to judge other cultures, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but it is when their beliefs can begin to threaten a child's, elderly's, or sick person's life is when we should regulate certain food products such as milk.
Raw milk is available in many places in Europe. Its not endangering anyone's lives. the FDAs own information suggests that you are something like 35,000 times less likely to get sick from raw milk than other foods. Show nested quote +
but when an illegal vendor, or any vendor of the sorts are selling products which potentially have the power to make people extremely sick, then I say we make sure as hell that we have some sort of regulating agency to help keep that person or business in check. Most businesses, even the beloved small business' main goal is to make profit. They will, alot of times, cut corners on simple things such as basic hygiene and proper (and perhaps more time consuming) methods in order to make a faster buck.
GM foods. FDA approved. Obscenely long list of health problems suggesting not safe. Approval does not imply safety. Show nested quote +"Fascists promote violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.[7] Fascists view conflict as a fact of life that is responsible for all human progress.[8] Fascists exalt militarism as providing positive transformation in society, in providing spiritual renovation, education, instilling of a will to dominate in people's character, and creating national comradeship through military service.[9] Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violent attacks on opponents, or to overthrow a political system.[10]" Fascism.There's no violence promotion or nationalism going on here, just preventative measures trying to ensure the overall health of the public. absolute faith in the benevolence and rightness of those that create the rules creates a breeding ground for fascist-like dynamics. Not fascism, but close enough in the substantive points.
Eutrophication is very sad indeed, I just wanted to mention it so that whoever reads this will hopefully learn something new on the issue and perhaps may be able to do something about it.
Of course question the rules set in place, it will allow for either a better set of rules to take its place or to take away any of the unnecessary regulation. But, at the same time know why they are there. If we could legally buy rocket launchers or C4, it would be okay, assuming they were not going to be used to harm people. Can we guarantee that? No, therefore some regulations need to be place and enforced.
Please link me to the information that says milk borne illnesses are 35,000 times less likely to occur than other foods. I am actually curious to read about it. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but does it imply raw milk? Or milk that's already been pasteurized, it will change your argument completely.
The rest of your argument goes into more of a philosophical area, which I would like to avoid. Talking about fascism is irrelevant to the subject at hand. Rawsome farms sold illegal raw milk and other illegal products. You can probably go buy legal raw milk, because I have seen it sold before, its just to me, its counter intuitive to buy such a product. Just make sure they have warning labels on it and that's as far as we can go on regulating that product.
Long term human trials for food sounds expensive and time consuming. Why not just reduce the risk of health problems by regulating some high risk foods? Sounds cheaper, easier, and overall is the best method to use. We have to solve problems not only efficiency, but cost effectively.
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On August 07 2011 07:47 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 07:31 Ethic wrote:On August 07 2011 07:02 mahnini wrote:On August 07 2011 06:49 NET wrote:On August 07 2011 06:25 Cyba wrote:
At any rate nobody will ever die of drinkin a lil bad milk and it's certainly a really good product if you handle it right.
That beeing said the police just did their job maybe with a little too much passion, the legislation is idd retarded but that's just because most people are too and in the US they seem to love to sue. Do more research on the topic before you make assumptions my friend. Foodborne Illness. E. Coli O157:H7 is a relativity new strain which is extremely virulent. We have to remember that bacteria and viruses are always genetically mutating(at extremely fast rates, faster then we can deal with them as health professionals). What this means for us is that we have to take preventative measures in order to ensure none of these new pathogens gets into our food supply. I guarantee you there will be more antibiotic resistant and more virulent strains of microbes in the near future and when an epidemic (Or God forbid pandemic occurs), and people die, they will once again blame the government for not doing enough to prevent it. If an epidemic is detoured though, no one will know, and no one will receive praise, but as long as everyone is unharmed, that is enough satisfaction for me. Also, how can you assume that the milk will be handled safely? The answer is you can't , so the best advice and preventative measures a company can do is to pasteurize the milk. It will cost them more upfront, but save them millions in possible cases where people can get very sick. Honestly there should not even be an argument on pasteurization. Its almost as absurd as saying people should drink unfiltered turbid water. You filter water to clean up the bad stuff in the same way you heat up (or pasteurize) the milk to kill the bad stuff. The list goes on, that's why people rarely die from cholera in the developed world, in the same sense why people die from cholera in third world countries. nah ur wrong. i don't need an organization to uphold food standards for me. water from a river is super safe because it's from nature and anything that is in it is NUTRIENTS. people drank river water for 9684 years and were fine, you can't explain that. and how is raw milk unsafe i mean it comes from a cow. FROM A COW. did you know that in some cultures cows are revered creatures? the FDA is just a mob organization that wants to make money off the american people by squashing small-time farmers. how can they allow the sale of controlled substances that require years of research and are conducted by trained professionals who've probably studied for near a decade, but they won't allow random joe's off the street sell milk? i mean, i've heard of people mixing liquor in their bathtubs at home then selling it in stores and that's perfectly legal (or maybe it was in a movie i saw, or maybe documentary, i don't remember better say documentary). i've got you're answer buddy and you ain't gonna like it. FASCISM. You're either trolling or extremely fucking stupid... Neither. It's sarcasm. You need to have your sarcasm detector readjusted.
I need to adjust mine too apparantly, I did not manage to read through the sarcasm in that post either. Looking through it again though..makes sense.
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raw milk is dangerous these people are crazy.
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I'd like to see him explicitly identify what was meant by 'generall health increased'.
life span is increasing, yes, but obesity, cancer, heart disease, hypertension, diabetes and a slough of other food-related health disorders are way up.
I also like how 'organic' is somehow treated as the opposite of 'conventional'. When did this conceptual shift occur? Food since the dawn of time, except for the past 20-35 years has been organic.
Nothing against food that isn't organic per se, but its fairly important to be educated about where your food comes from and what goes into it.
This is the problem with organic food enthusiasts, they can't keep their enthusiasm from making them look silly.
Yes, general health increased. People live longer with less food-caused illness. Farming methods have absolutely nothing to do with the increase in obesity, cancer, heart disease, hypertension and diabetes. What we do with the crops we grow (what foods we turn them into) and how much of them we eat, along with a sedentary lifestyle, are.
It's totally ridiculous to blame the health consequences of bad eating habits on non-organically grown crops.
And sorry, but conventional farming has not been around for only 20-35 years. What you mean is, mechanized farming has been around about 70, and use of advanced chemistry about 50. You're making a meaningless distinction based solely on technological and scientific advancement. If chemical fertilizers and pesticides were available earlier they would have been used earlier. "Organic" farming is not a return to some idealized past. Past farmers were hardly "organic" in the sense the term is used today, and it's disingenuous to try to link the two.
Nothing against organic food enthusiasts per se, but their ubiquitous and never-ending attitude that "it's important to get educated" implying that people who disagree with them are not makes people not want to listen to them.
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On August 07 2011 08:19 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +I'd like to see him explicitly identify what was meant by 'generall health increased'.
life span is increasing, yes, but obesity, cancer, heart disease, hypertension, diabetes and a slough of other food-related health disorders are way up.
I also like how 'organic' is somehow treated as the opposite of 'conventional'. When did this conceptual shift occur? Food since the dawn of time, except for the past 20-35 years has been organic.
Nothing against food that isn't organic per se, but its fairly important to be educated about where your food comes from and what goes into it. This is the problem with organic food enthusiasts, they can't keep their enthusiasm from making them look silly. Yes, general health increased. People live longer with less food-caused illness. Farming methods have absolutely nothing to do with the increase in obesity, cancer, heart disease, hypertension and diabetes. What we do with the crops we grow (what foods we turn them into) and how much of them we eat, along with a sedentary lifestyle, are. It's totally ridiculous to blame the health consequences of bad eating habits on non-organically grown crops. And sorry, but conventional farming has not been around for only 20-35 years. What you mean is, mechanized farming has been around about 70, and use of advanced chemistry about 50. You're making a meaningless distinction based solely on technological and scientific advancement. If chemical fertilizers and pesticides were available earlier they would have been used earlier. "Organic" farming is not a return to some idealized past. Past farmers were hardly "organic" in the sense the term is used today, and it's disingenuous to try to link the two. Nothing against organic food enthusiasts per se, but their ubiquitous and never-ending attitude that "it's important to get educated" implying that people who disagree with them are not makes people not want to listen to them.
yeah, this isn't really about organic vs. non organic in my mind, its about general food supply issues, of which organic vs. non organic is one strand that is interrelated with other issues.
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On August 07 2011 07:42 caradoc wrote:
Edited out. not feeding. seeing how it develops.
Already quoted =_=
I was serious about linking me to that source on milk borne illnesses...
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I drink raw milk all the time
Its fairly dangerous, which is why you have to make sure it is sourced correctly
I eat a lot of organic food and especially meat and dairy products.
Not that because it is lacking technology or any of that, but simply put the care that goes into organic food causes the actual quality of food to be higher. As someone who can afford to pay for organic food, and cares a lot about my health, i invest in particular kinds of organic food because of the sourcing advantages
When i buy meat, i buy organic chicken because i know it comes from grass fed chickens kept in a healthy, disease free environment
When i buy eggs, i buy speciality eggs because when you crack open the egg you get a bright, healthy orange yolk colour indicative of healthy, disease free chickens.
Raw milk in particular, is dangerous not because of the nature of raw milk, but because of the conditions most cows are kept in.
American milk producing cows in particular, are fed a ton of crap, like processed soy (which is horrifically bad for you - this isn't the normal soy you and me think of), slurry (don't even get me started), and the milk they produce is REALLY bad for you, and disease ridden, and so it HAS to be pasteurised in order for you not to die when you drink it (its basically like drinking poison)
I'm the kind of guy to do a lot of research into the food i eat and buy to stay healthy and happy. At the same time, many "chemical" scares are a complete scare. I'll happily add msg to food to increase its flavour (sometimes - especially to extremely plain food) because i know it is safe.
However, low grade meat and milk is NOT very safe, which is why i buy the highest grade possible - organic.
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On August 07 2011 08:37 BrTarolg wrote:
I drink raw milk all the time
Its fairly dangerous, which is why you have to make sure it is sourced correctly
I eat a lot of organic food and especially meat and dairy products.
Not that because it is lacking technology or any of that, but simply put the care that goes into organic food causes the actual quality of food to be higher. As someone who can afford to pay for organic food, and cares a lot about my health, i invest in particular kinds of organic food because of the sourcing advantages
When i buy meat, i buy organic chicken because i know it comes from grass fed chickens kept in a healthy, disease free environment
When i buy eggs, i buy speciality eggs because when you crack open the egg you get a bright, healthy orange yolk colour indicative of healthy, disease free chickens.
Raw milk in particular, is dangerous not because of the nature of raw milk, but because of the conditions most cows are kept in.
American milk producing cows in particular, are fed a ton of crap, like processed soy (which is horrifically bad for you - this isn't the normal soy you and me think of), slurry (don't even get me started), and the milk they produce is REALLY bad for you, and disease ridden, and so it HAS to be pasteurised in order for you not to die when you drink it (its basically like drinking poison)
I'm the kind of guy to do a lot of research into the food i eat and buy to stay healthy and happy. At the same time, many "chemical" scares are a complete scare. I'll happily add msg to food to increase its flavour (sometimes - especially to extremely plain food) because i know it is safe.
However, low grade meat and milk is NOT very safe, which is why i buy the highest grade possible - organic.
I agree with this post. I buy organic milk and eggs as well as other products. The difference is the organic milk I buy is ultra-pasteurized. I would recommend purchasing organic pasteurized milk because it is overall more sanitary and safer to drink. (Why take any unnecessary risk at all?)
The confusion comes with people saying that raw milk is the only way to drink it to be healthy, but again, I find it counterintuitive to say that. My job right now to make sure everyone that reads this thread understands that raw milk does not mean safer or healthier. Raw and organic milk are not the same thing, and that pasteurization is not bad, its a heating method created to kill pathogens.
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Well the raw milk that is being sold is from grass fed cows. The reason why there is pasteurized milk is because grain fed cows are filled with disease from the grains they eat and poor living conditions.
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EPT
