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On August 06 2011 14:34 HellRoxYa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 14:29 shinosai wrote:
It's my opinion here that this raid was absurd, and so is California law. How dare the government try and tell us what is healthy, when they created the joke that is known as the food pyramid. And whether or not you think raw milk is unsafe, what right do they have to regulate what I choose to drink. It's not even a drug! Seriously? There are very good reasons for the government telling you that some stuff is bad for you. I doubt the milk is bad for you, and yes, there should probably not be laws against it. However, in a more general sense, I think you're out of your mind.
There are probably no laws against drinking the milk. However keep in mind this is a store, and to sell raw cow and goat milk illegally is either bypassing some kind of government regulation and/or could be dangerous to someones health. People purchasing the milk may not know it was obtained illegally.
Also @OP the article clearly states its bias. I find it hard to believe the story is actually that one-sided.
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On August 07 2011 07:02 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 06:49 NET wrote:On August 07 2011 06:25 Cyba wrote:
At any rate nobody will ever die of drinkin a lil bad milk and it's certainly a really good product if you handle it right.
That beeing said the police just did their job maybe with a little too much passion, the legislation is idd retarded but that's just because most people are too and in the US they seem to love to sue. Do more research on the topic before you make assumptions my friend. Foodborne Illness. E. Coli O157:H7 is a relativity new strain which is extremely virulent. We have to remember that bacteria and viruses are always genetically mutating(at extremely fast rates, faster then we can deal with them as health professionals). What this means for us is that we have to take preventative measures in order to ensure none of these new pathogens gets into our food supply. I guarantee you there will be more antibiotic resistant and more virulent strains of microbes in the near future and when an epidemic (Or God forbid pandemic occurs), and people die, they will once again blame the government for not doing enough to prevent it. If an epidemic is detoured though, no one will know, and no one will receive praise, but as long as everyone is unharmed, that is enough satisfaction for me. Also, how can you assume that the milk will be handled safely? The answer is you can't , so the best advice and preventative measures a company can do is to pasteurize the milk. It will cost them more upfront, but save them millions in possible cases where people can get very sick. Honestly there should not even be an argument on pasteurization. Its almost as absurd as saying people should drink unfiltered turbid water. You filter water to clean up the bad stuff in the same way you heat up (or pasteurize) the milk to kill the bad stuff. The list goes on, that's why people rarely die from cholera in the developed world, in the same sense why people die from cholera in third world countries. nah ur wrong. i don't need an organization to uphold food standards for me. water from a river is super safe because it's from nature and anything that is in it is NUTRIENTS. people drank river water for 9684 years and were fine, you can't explain that. and how is raw milk unsafe i mean it comes from a cow. FROM A COW. did you know that in some cultures cows are revered creatures? the FDA is just a mob organization that wants to make money off the american people by squashing small-time farmers. how can they allow the sale of controlled substances that require years of research and are conducted by trained professionals who've probably studied for near a decade, but they won't allow random joe's off the street sell milk? i mean, i've heard of people mixing liquor in their bathtubs at home then selling it in stores and that's perfectly legal (or maybe it was in a movie i saw, or maybe documentary, i don't remember better say documentary). i've got you're answer buddy and you ain't gonna like it. FASCISM.
Couldn't have said it better myself haha
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On August 07 2011 04:09 Zzoram wrote:
Guys, THIS ISN'T ABOUT ORGANIC FOOD. It's about illegal sale and distribution of raw milk.
Framing the argument as a war against organic food is completely propaganda. The raid was about selling and distributing raw milk. You can legally buy organic pasteurized milk, just not raw milk. Raw milk can contain E.coli, Salmonella, Tuberculosis, among other things. Those are deadly bacteria that can be spread between people by something as simple as not washing their hands properly after their diarrhea, and then shaking hands, preparing food for others, or touching something that someone else will touch within a short period of time. Even if you don't die after drinking raw milk, if you visit a retirement home to see grandma and you still have some bacteria on your hands from wiping your ass, you could spread it all over the facility and cause and outbreak that kills tons of old people. Same thing could happen if you visit McDonald's after your diarrhea, and transfer some bacteria to the door. The people who touch the door afterwards can pick up the bacteria, and people often eat without washing their hands at restaurants, so it's a common way to get infected. This type of thing happens all the time and is incredibly difficult to trace and stop. It's far safer for the public to limit contact with those deadly bacteria whenever possible because of how quickly they can be spread. These things can kill middle-aged healthy people sometimes too, not just old people or young children. Even if they don't kill you, they can cause long lasting health complications, and the hospitalization uses up a bed and resources that could go towards other sick people. Prevention is easier and cheaper than dealing with an outbreak.
Oh come on dude this is a complete joke. People have been drinking raw milk for hundreds of years, ive been drinking for decades. Aint nothing bad happened to me.
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On August 07 2011 09:08 xarthaz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 04:09 Zzoram wrote:
Guys, THIS ISN'T ABOUT ORGANIC FOOD. It's about illegal sale and distribution of raw milk.
Framing the argument as a war against organic food is completely propaganda. The raid was about selling and distributing raw milk. You can legally buy organic pasteurized milk, just not raw milk. Raw milk can contain E.coli, Salmonella, Tuberculosis, among other things. Those are deadly bacteria that can be spread between people by something as simple as not washing their hands properly after their diarrhea, and then shaking hands, preparing food for others, or touching something that someone else will touch within a short period of time. Even if you don't die after drinking raw milk, if you visit a retirement home to see grandma and you still have some bacteria on your hands from wiping your ass, you could spread it all over the facility and cause and outbreak that kills tons of old people. Same thing could happen if you visit McDonald's after your diarrhea, and transfer some bacteria to the door. The people who touch the door afterwards can pick up the bacteria, and people often eat without washing their hands at restaurants, so it's a common way to get infected. This type of thing happens all the time and is incredibly difficult to trace and stop. It's far safer for the public to limit contact with those deadly bacteria whenever possible because of how quickly they can be spread. These things can kill middle-aged healthy people sometimes too, not just old people or young children. Even if they don't kill you, they can cause long lasting health complications, and the hospitalization uses up a bed and resources that could go towards other sick people. Prevention is easier and cheaper than dealing with an outbreak. Oh come on dude this is a complete joke. People have been drinking raw milk for hundreds of years, ive been drinking for decades. Aint nothing bad happened to me.
Exactly, just like all those people who have been smoking for decades with nothing bad happening to them. This is proof that raw milk, and by extension smoking, is completely healthy...
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People have been so alienated from country life, theyve never had it so a lot of people have no idea the fuck theyre talking about. In my village everyone drinks raw milk, cow owners earn solid income, a lot of old people(yes weaker immune systems) and their grandchildren who come to country for summer all drink it. And guess what? Aint nothing happened. Its all ridiculous pseudoscientific scare mongering, just like the terrorist "threat" that gets people worried and approve spending 10% of GDP down the toilet.
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On August 07 2011 09:12 StrangrDangr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 09:08 xarthaz wrote:On August 07 2011 04:09 Zzoram wrote:
Guys, THIS ISN'T ABOUT ORGANIC FOOD. It's about illegal sale and distribution of raw milk.
Framing the argument as a war against organic food is completely propaganda. The raid was about selling and distributing raw milk. You can legally buy organic pasteurized milk, just not raw milk. Raw milk can contain E.coli, Salmonella, Tuberculosis, among other things. Those are deadly bacteria that can be spread between people by something as simple as not washing their hands properly after their diarrhea, and then shaking hands, preparing food for others, or touching something that someone else will touch within a short period of time. Even if you don't die after drinking raw milk, if you visit a retirement home to see grandma and you still have some bacteria on your hands from wiping your ass, you could spread it all over the facility and cause and outbreak that kills tons of old people. Same thing could happen if you visit McDonald's after your diarrhea, and transfer some bacteria to the door. The people who touch the door afterwards can pick up the bacteria, and people often eat without washing their hands at restaurants, so it's a common way to get infected. This type of thing happens all the time and is incredibly difficult to trace and stop. It's far safer for the public to limit contact with those deadly bacteria whenever possible because of how quickly they can be spread. These things can kill middle-aged healthy people sometimes too, not just old people or young children. Even if they don't kill you, they can cause long lasting health complications, and the hospitalization uses up a bed and resources that could go towards other sick people. Prevention is easier and cheaper than dealing with an outbreak. Oh come on dude this is a complete joke. People have been drinking raw milk for hundreds of years, ive been drinking for decades. Aint nothing bad happened to me. Exactly, just like all those people who have been smoking for decades with nothing bad happening to them. This is proof that raw milk, and by extension smoking, is completely healthy...
Nawww... Logic!?!? No thanks. Them there lil' critters - eee kow-lyee - whatchumacallums' ain't got nothin on me. They's a COMPLETE joke I reck'n. That there guvernmint needs ter git its DIRTY hands off my life I tell's ya.. TEA PARTY 2012 mark my werds thar gunna be CHANGES i tell ya derr gee der dey took er jerbs derrr rawwrrr
On August 07 2011 09:18 xarthaz wrote:
People have been so alienated from country life, theyve never had it so a lot of people have no idea the fuck theyre talking about. In my village everyone drinks raw milk, cow owners earn solid income, a lot of old people(yes weaker immune systems) and their grandchildren who come to country for summer all drink it. And guess what? Aint nothing happened. Its all ridiculous pseudoscientific scare mongering, just like the terrorist "threat" that gets people worried and approve spending 10% of GDP down the toilet.
* ing ding ding** Troll alert! Detected: Bona-fiiiide troll, niner-niner-bravo, tango incoming, locked on radar! Calling all available assets..over!
Roger, tally-one, Crazy Horse One troll-reaction-force inbound.. ETA 3..2..Bombs away! Over n' out!
Here's a knowledge bomb for you:
Pasteurization: It's a scientific fact - not "pseudoscientific" nonsense. If you want "pseudoscientific", refer to 2012 world-ending theories, paranormal activities, or astrology/palm-readings. As for health and medicine, please leave your shit at home and quit spreading it like it's truth.
RAW. MILK. IS. NOT. SAFE.
FACT.
I don't give two shits if you happen to enjoy risking it with your tribe in farmville; it does not change the FACT that it's not safe. What, you don't believe in easily corroborated FACTS?
Also I don't know where the hell you get your info, LOL, but since when does the US spend 10% of GDP/year on Afghanistan? What the fuck?
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Look, even if you are scared of the bacteria, its an easy fix. A single drop of bleach into a gallon of milk, give it a good shake, and 100% bacteria eliminated. Same with every other food "danger". There is nothing dangerous about food, its nonsense.
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On August 07 2011 09:24 xarthaz wrote:
Look, even if you are scared of the bacteria, its an easy fix. A single drop of bleach into a gallon of milk, give it a good shake, and 100% bacteria eliminated. Same with every other food "danger". There is nothing dangerous about food, its nonsense.
Horse shit. I work with E. coli on a regular basis. One drop of bleach in a large volume of bacteria-laced fluid is not sufficient to ensure complete destruction of the entire population. You just pull shit out of thin air and pretend it's truth; utterly mind-boggling how anyone takes you half-seriously. For your information, the amount of bleach it takes to eliminate a given amount of bacteria is more than you'd want to ingest, you sick, sick, sick person. I seriously hope you don't bleach milk and feed it to people.
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On August 07 2011 09:18 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 09:12 StrangrDangr wrote:On August 07 2011 09:08 xarthaz wrote:On August 07 2011 04:09 Zzoram wrote:
Guys, THIS ISN'T ABOUT ORGANIC FOOD. It's about illegal sale and distribution of raw milk.
Framing the argument as a war against organic food is completely propaganda. The raid was about selling and distributing raw milk. You can legally buy organic pasteurized milk, just not raw milk. Raw milk can contain E.coli, Salmonella, Tuberculosis, among other things. Those are deadly bacteria that can be spread between people by something as simple as not washing their hands properly after their diarrhea, and then shaking hands, preparing food for others, or touching something that someone else will touch within a short period of time. Even if you don't die after drinking raw milk, if you visit a retirement home to see grandma and you still have some bacteria on your hands from wiping your ass, you could spread it all over the facility and cause and outbreak that kills tons of old people. Same thing could happen if you visit McDonald's after your diarrhea, and transfer some bacteria to the door. The people who touch the door afterwards can pick up the bacteria, and people often eat without washing their hands at restaurants, so it's a common way to get infected. This type of thing happens all the time and is incredibly difficult to trace and stop. It's far safer for the public to limit contact with those deadly bacteria whenever possible because of how quickly they can be spread. These things can kill middle-aged healthy people sometimes too, not just old people or young children. Even if they don't kill you, they can cause long lasting health complications, and the hospitalization uses up a bed and resources that could go towards other sick people. Prevention is easier and cheaper than dealing with an outbreak. Oh come on dude this is a complete joke. People have been drinking raw milk for hundreds of years, ive been drinking for decades. Aint nothing bad happened to me. Exactly, just like all those people who have been smoking for decades with nothing bad happening to them. This is proof that raw milk, and by extension smoking, is completely healthy... Nawww... Logic!?!? No thanks. Them there lil' critters - eee kow-lyee - whatchumacallums' ain't got nothin on me. They's a COMPLETE joke I reck'n. That there guvernmint needs ter git its DIRTY hands off my life I tell's ya.. TEA PARTY 2012 mark my werds thar gunna be CHANGES i tell ya derr gee der dey took er jerbs derrr rawwrrr Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 09:18 xarthaz wrote:
People have been so alienated from country life, theyve never had it so a lot of people have no idea the fuck theyre talking about. In my village everyone drinks raw milk, cow owners earn solid income, a lot of old people(yes weaker immune systems) and their grandchildren who come to country for summer all drink it. And guess what? Aint nothing happened. Its all ridiculous pseudoscientific scare mongering, just like the terrorist "threat" that gets people worried and approve spending 10% of GDP down the toilet. *ing ding ding** Troll alert! Detected: Bona-fiiiide troll, niner-niner-bravo, tango incoming, locked on radar! Calling all available assets..over!
Roger, tally-one, Crazy Horse One troll-reaction-force inbound.. ETA 3..2..Bombs away! Over n' out!Here's a knowledge bomb for you: Pasteurization: It's a scientific fact - not "pseudoscientific" nonsense. If you want "pseudoscientific", refer to 2012 world-ending theories, paranormal activities, or astrology/palm-readings. As for health and medicine, please leave your shit at home and quit spreading it like it's truth. RAW. MILK. IS. NOT. SAFE. FACT. I don't give two shits if you happen to enjoy risking it with your tribe in farmville; it does not change the FACT that it's not safe. What, you don't believe in easily corroborated FACTS? Also I don't know where the hell you get your info, LOL, but since when does the US spend 10% of GDP/year on Afghanistan? What the fuck?
Do you have any research to back up your statements?
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On August 07 2011 09:18 xarthaz wrote:
People have been so alienated from country life, theyve never had it so a lot of people have no idea the fuck theyre talking about. In my village everyone drinks raw milk, cow owners earn solid income, a lot of old people(yes weaker immune systems) and their grandchildren who come to country for summer all drink it. And guess what? Aint nothing happened. Its all ridiculous pseudoscientific scare mongering, just like the terrorist "threat" that gets people worried and approve spending 10% of GDP down the toilet.
I live in a town that has to be in the running for the smallest town in the US, our only claim to fame is our unique breed of cattle. Over half of the people who go to my college come here to study agriculture/cows (the other half chemistry interestingly enough). I can at any moment go grab myself some nice feces infested milk. I refrain, mostly because of the terrorist threat... and the fact that drinking said feces infested milk would increase my risk for illness. Who would benefit from such "ridiculous pseudoscientific scare mongering" as you propose?
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On August 07 2011 09:29 AoN.DimSum wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 09:18 FallDownMarigold wrote:On August 07 2011 09:12 StrangrDangr wrote:On August 07 2011 09:08 xarthaz wrote:On August 07 2011 04:09 Zzoram wrote:
Guys, THIS ISN'T ABOUT ORGANIC FOOD. It's about illegal sale and distribution of raw milk.
Framing the argument as a war against organic food is completely propaganda. The raid was about selling and distributing raw milk. You can legally buy organic pasteurized milk, just not raw milk. Raw milk can contain E.coli, Salmonella, Tuberculosis, among other things. Those are deadly bacteria that can be spread between people by something as simple as not washing their hands properly after their diarrhea, and then shaking hands, preparing food for others, or touching something that someone else will touch within a short period of time. Even if you don't die after drinking raw milk, if you visit a retirement home to see grandma and you still have some bacteria on your hands from wiping your ass, you could spread it all over the facility and cause and outbreak that kills tons of old people. Same thing could happen if you visit McDonald's after your diarrhea, and transfer some bacteria to the door. The people who touch the door afterwards can pick up the bacteria, and people often eat without washing their hands at restaurants, so it's a common way to get infected. This type of thing happens all the time and is incredibly difficult to trace and stop. It's far safer for the public to limit contact with those deadly bacteria whenever possible because of how quickly they can be spread. These things can kill middle-aged healthy people sometimes too, not just old people or young children. Even if they don't kill you, they can cause long lasting health complications, and the hospitalization uses up a bed and resources that could go towards other sick people. Prevention is easier and cheaper than dealing with an outbreak. Oh come on dude this is a complete joke. People have been drinking raw milk for hundreds of years, ive been drinking for decades. Aint nothing bad happened to me. Exactly, just like all those people who have been smoking for decades with nothing bad happening to them. This is proof that raw milk, and by extension smoking, is completely healthy... Nawww... Logic!?!? No thanks. Them there lil' critters - eee kow-lyee - whatchumacallums' ain't got nothin on me. They's a COMPLETE joke I reck'n. That there guvernmint needs ter git its DIRTY hands off my life I tell's ya.. TEA PARTY 2012 mark my werds thar gunna be CHANGES i tell ya derr gee der dey took er jerbs derrr rawwrrr On August 07 2011 09:18 xarthaz wrote:
People have been so alienated from country life, theyve never had it so a lot of people have no idea the fuck theyre talking about. In my village everyone drinks raw milk, cow owners earn solid income, a lot of old people(yes weaker immune systems) and their grandchildren who come to country for summer all drink it. And guess what? Aint nothing happened. Its all ridiculous pseudoscientific scare mongering, just like the terrorist "threat" that gets people worried and approve spending 10% of GDP down the toilet. *ing ding ding** Troll alert! Detected: Bona-fiiiide troll, niner-niner-bravo, tango incoming, locked on radar! Calling all available assets..over!
Roger, tally-one, Crazy Horse One troll-reaction-force inbound.. ETA 3..2..Bombs away! Over n' out!Here's a knowledge bomb for you: Pasteurization: It's a scientific fact - not "pseudoscientific" nonsense. If you want "pseudoscientific", refer to 2012 world-ending theories, paranormal activities, or astrology/palm-readings. As for health and medicine, please leave your shit at home and quit spreading it like it's truth. RAW. MILK. IS. NOT. SAFE. FACT. I don't give two shits if you happen to enjoy risking it with your tribe in farmville; it does not change the FACT that it's not safe. What, you don't believe in easily corroborated FACTS? Also I don't know where the hell you get your info, LOL, but since when does the US spend 10% of GDP/year on Afghanistan? What the fuck? Do you have any research to back up your statements?
ROFL wait...you just asked me if I have personal research on the concept of pasteurization? What?
Here, start with this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization
In fact, apparently pasteurization may not even be enough to combat pathogens in untreated milk. It's not some lunatic concept developed to steal your money or whatever. I know you're just trolling, but really, cut it out. It confuses people. This is like arguing with somebody about whether or not cigarettes contribute to the multiple-hit hypothesis of cancer.
Diseases that pasteurization can prevent include tuberculosis, brucellosis, diphtheria, scarlet fever and Q-fever; it also kills the harmful bacteria Salmonella, Listeria, Yersinia, Campylobacter, Staphylococcus aureus, and Escherichia coli among others.
Milk Pasteurization: Guarding against disease, Michigan State University Extension, http://www.fcs.msue.msu.edu/ff/pdffiles/foodsafety2.pdf
Smith, P. W., (August 1981), “Milk Pasteurization” Fact Sheet Number 57, U.S. Department of Agriculture Research Service, Washington, D.C.
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? i asked if you have any proof that raw milk is bad.
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On August 07 2011 09:36 AoN.DimSum wrote:
? i asked if you have any proof that raw milk is bad.
Don't play dumb. Pasteurization is based upon the fact that raw milk is bad. You either failed to infer that or you are just trolling.
RT-PCR analysis of raw milk proves the presence of pathogens capable of surviving pasteurization - which, if anything, indicates that MORE should be done to treat milk than simple pasteurization. Doing nothing at all is downright risky. Fact. Is that enough proof for you?
Or is RT-PCR just another "gimmicky complete joke", like xarthaz would tell you?
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I dont see how linking me to research that support raw milk is so hard. Any links from pubmed would do.
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If you are arguing for your cause, I would hope you have some evidence to back your statements.
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On August 07 2011 09:36 AoN.DimSum wrote:
? i asked if you have any proof that raw milk is bad.
Refer to all of my previous posts please.
Heres some more information:Milk-Borne Illness
Edit: Thank you FallDownMarigold, I thought the thread was about to derail. Good save sir.
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Look the bottom line is, Raw milk is good. It tastes good, you should try it. And its reasonably safe to consume, so that its excellent foodstuff. And following from that, any attempt to prevent people from peacefully consuming good food is bad. Its a no brainer: it is bad to do things that prevent people from peacefully doing good things.
Its a universal truth, a moral that any reasonable man can agree with. That is, except the megalomaniac behaviorists who take it to reject the concept of preference being a subject of individual that acts in accordance to it.
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EPT
