EPTWe take pride in our openness in Norway. We are vulnerable by choice and will continue to be so. Even the thoughts and opinions of a mass murderer must be allowed for debate, but in honesty I believe it will take a long time before any of the wounds have healed enough to bring it up.
[Old] The massacre in Norway - Page 86
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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect! | ||
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shabby
Norway6402 Posts
We take pride in our openness in Norway. We are vulnerable by choice and will continue to be so. Even the thoughts and opinions of a mass murderer must be allowed for debate, but in honesty I believe it will take a long time before any of the wounds have healed enough to bring it up. | ||
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MentalM
Norway12 Posts
People should think twice before distributing links with that manifesto to others, that is his goal. He wants his political ideas to remove "Social-marxists" and Muslims from Europe to be spread out. If you are easily persuaded to things I also strongly recommand you NOT to read it, it is well written over several years and can brainwash certain people. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 24 2011 18:41 shabby wrote: He states in his manifesto that the main problem is that Islam by it's very foundation seeks to globalize and convert every man, woman and child. This is why - he says - we cannot coexist even if we wanted to, and he seeks alliance, long or temporary, with pretty much everybody else. He is fighting to preserve christian cultural values in the west. It is an extremely strange and horrendous way to get forth your message as a knight of the peace, and he will be condemned and sentenced for his monsterous acts. But people will read his book (heck I've already been reading for hours), and that's all it is about for him and the Knights Templars. We take pride in our openness in Norway. We are vulnerable by choice and will continue to be so. Even the thoughts and opinions of a mass murderer must be allowed for debate, but in honesty I believe it will take a long time before any of the wounds have healed enough to bring it up. It's wrong for half islam : the most extremist islam view Europe as desecrated earth that all muslim should flee to return to the house of Islam (the middle east), it's the moderate Islam that view Europe as a earth of proselytism. And every religion seek to globalize... it's the same for christianism, yet with time they came to forget that idea and became a pretty peaceful organisation. | ||
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chocopaw
2072 Posts
Anyone got a link to his youtube video that they took down? | ||
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Aim Here
Scotland672 Posts
On July 24 2011 16:22 Darkalbino wrote: Before you read the body of my post acknowledge this: I cant ever commend the actions he has taken. They are horrific and I feel for the victims and their families. It is truly a tragic day. Remember that this individual is an intellect and articulates himself incredibly well. If he articulates them so well, how on earth did you manage to represent him so badly? I'm going to condemn you for making this guy out to be far more moderate than he really is. I suspect you're mischaracterising his beliefs so that they're more similar to your own, but whatever the reason, I do have to take serious issue with this post of yours. On July 24 2011 16:22 Darkalbino wrote: It is well established that he opposed the labour party. He attributes the rise in Muslim globalisation in western society (in particular, Norway) to the labour (and to an extend the democratic Christian party) party and subsequently holds great resentment toward them. No. He attributes it to what he calls 'Cultural Marxists' which is simultaneously a term for people who laymen would refer to as ”socialists”, collectivists, feminists, humanists, egalitarians, gay and disability activists, animal rights activists, environmentalists etc." (though not all people in those groups are 'Cultural Marxists', only the 'multiculturalist' ones), or a term for certain ideas that came from the Frankfurt 'Institute of Social Research' (Being both a pervasive feature of a lot of political ideologies, AND an idea thought up by a tiny Marxist think-tank probably helps him think of this concept in conspiratorial John Birch terms, and attribute guilt to anyone who holds such ideas) The Labour Party is, of course, an example of such Cultural Marxism, but his theory is far more wide-reaching than 'I hate Labour because they let muslims in my country'. On July 24 2011 16:22 Darkalbino wrote: He describes how Muslims couldn't and shouldn't have a place in the western world. That multiculturalism doesn't work, and despite how politically correct society may attempt to be - people are different, and so are their cultures. No again. To quote his manifesto: "“Multiculturalist” is a label for individuals who support multiculturalism (what was earlier referred to as “social engineering”); the European hate ideology which was created to destroy our European cultures, national cohesion and Christendom (in other words Western civilisation itself)." Since he obviously believe that destruction of European culture is happening, Multiculturalism appears, to him, to be Working As Intended. As for 'political correctness', his words show that this is part of the evil Multiculturalist conspiracy The ideology that has taken over Western Europe goes most commonly by the name of “Political Correctness.” Some people see it as a joke. It is not. It is deadly serious. It seeks to alter virtually all the rules, formal and informal, that govern relations among people and institutions. It wants to change behaviour, thought, even the words we use. To a significant extent, it already has. Whoever or whatever controls language also controls thought. Who dares to speak of “ladies” now? Just what is “Political Correctness?” Political Correctness is in fact cultural Marxism (Cultural Communism) – Marxism translated from economic into cultural terms. On July 24 2011 16:22 Darkalbino wrote: He goes on to explain that while he may be accepting of certain aspects of their culture I can't find a reference to anything of the sort. He does quote approvingly the anti-Islamic blogger 'Fjordman' describing Islamic culture as 'utterly failed', and he does heavily criticize Islamic culture. Where do you see him accepting it? His manifesto calls for the destruction of every last vestige of Islamic culture in Europe, even historical sites. On July 24 2011 16:22 Darkalbino wrote: he feels that integration should not be encouraged (as the Norwegian labour party was doing, he says) and that the Muslims should leave Western Europe as they can not live together harmoniously (cites numerous examples of recent uproars including the "Cartoon Mohammed" scandal and the government's handling, or lack thereof, of the situation) and conflict with the foundations and freedom western society was built upon. Well that's a somewhat mild way of putting it. He accuses Islam of colonizing Europe through 'demographic warfare'. Living in Europe is an act of war to him. On July 24 2011 16:22 Darkalbino wrote: He predicts a European war, caused by the conflicting values of Muslim culture/society and Western Society In the video, he claims the war started in 1999. He's not 'predicting' it, he's fighting it. On July 24 2011 16:22 Darkalbino wrote: It may be questioned why he attacked a politically endorsed camp as opposed to a Mosque, or Muslim Centre. He doesn't want a war to start because of him, he wants to stop one. He singled out the next highest priority of a target with the highest possible rate of success and attacked. He has killed 92 people, 92 politically opposite but racially neutral people. No way. I have to question if you look at any of the materials that this guy put out before writing this. This guy had a hatred of "multiculturalist traitors" and members of the Labour Party would certainly qualify by his earlier definition. One of the chapters of his book is called "A politically incorrect guide to the lynching of mulitculturalist traitors", and he jokes that it would have been funny to write 'executing Class A and B Cultural Marxists/multiculturalist traitors' on the application form for the guns he used to murder the children. Book 3 of his 1500 page work is called 'A declaration of preemptive war' where he sketches out how he sees the next 70 years of European history, and it's clear he wants to start a European Civil war between Conservatives and Multiculturalists. Attacking ('lynching') multiculturalists seem to be the first phase of his strategy. He wants to overthrow mainstream politics with far-right conservatives, cleanse Europe of political enemies through a systematic campaign of death squad assassinations and then the rightists can lead the crusade (his video is rather big on narcissistic crusader imagery) to cleanse Europe of muslims. This guy is actively fantasising about living in a fascist terror-state where people who disagree with him get murdered (though he dislikes the term 'fascist' for technical ideological reasons). 'Cultural Marxists', as he call them, aren't a 'Plan B' type target, 'multiculturalists' are the priority. They're to be exterminated first. On July 24 2011 16:22 Darkalbino wrote: Once again I would like to reiterate I do not empathise with Anders Behring BreiviK, but I understand his line of thinking. I don't agree with the way he went about what he did, yet understand his concerns. I disagree. You don't understand his line of thinking. You've systematically replaced his line of thinking with a much more moderate line of thinking that you DO understand. | ||
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Serthius
Samoa226 Posts
On July 24 2011 13:10 cz wrote: How do you know he was a psychopath? His actions don't fit that of a normal psychopath, who are very selfish and like to dominate others for their own power and challenge. He just seems very passionate, strongly believing in his views, to the point that he thinks killing other Norweigans is worth it. Psychopaths don't feel empathy, so they fundamentally have no problem hurting/killing people. But this event was emotional, seems to be driven by ideological anger. You can be a very bad person without being a psychopath. Er, I'd say he seems like a textbook case psychopath. -Grandiose sense of self-worth - check. -pathological lying - check. -Lack of empathy - check. The fucker actually cheered when shooting kids up close, how is that for lack of empathy? There will be an extensive psychological evaluation of him, no doubt. I'd be very surprised if that didn't conclude that he was a psychopath (actually, it won't, because it's not called psychopath anymore. Antisocial personality disorder, whatever. Same shit.) "But this event was emotional, seems to be driven by ideological anger." -> psychopaths do not lack emotions. Especially not emotions like anger. | ||
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shabby
Norway6402 Posts
On July 24 2011 18:48 chocopaw wrote: As always when big things happen, the TL thread on it sickens me... I don't want to live on this planet anymore. Anyone got a link to his youtube video that they took down? | ||
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Thorakh
Netherlands1788 Posts
But killing innocent children who mostly were too young to even understand? That is just horrible and makes him a monster, not a freedom fighter. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 24 2011 18:48 Aim Here wrote: If he articulates him so well, how on earth did you manage to represent him so badly? I'm going to condemn you for making this guy out to be far more moderate than he really is. I suspect you're mischaracterising his beliefs so that they're more similar to your own, but whatever the reason, I do have to take serious issue with this post of yours. No. He attributes it to what he calls 'Cultural Marxists' which is simultaneously a term for people who laymen would refer to as ”socialists”, collectivists, feminists, humanists, egalitarians, gay and disability activists, animal rights activists, environmentalists etc." (though not all people in those groups are 'Cultural Marxists', only the 'multiculturalist' ones), or a term for certain ideas that came from the Frankfurt 'Institute of Social Research'. The Labour Party is, of course, an example of such Cultural Marxism, but his theory is far more wide-reaching than 'I hate Labour because they let muslims in my country'. No again. To quote his manifesto: "“Multiculturalist” is a label for individuals who support multiculturalism (what was earlier referred to as “social engineering”); the European hate ideology which was created to destroy our European cultures, national cohesion and Christendom (in other words Western civilisation itself)." Since he obviously believe that destruction of European culture is happening, Multiculturalism appears, to him, to be Working As Intended. As for 'political correctness', his words show that this is part of the evil Multiculturalist conspiracy I can't find a reference to anything of the sort. He does quote approvingly the anti-Islamic blogger 'Fjordman' describing Islamic culture as 'utterly failed', and he does heavily criticize Islamic culture. Where do you see him accepting it? His manifesto calls for the destruction of every last vestige of Islamic culture in Europe, even historical sites. Well that's a somewhat mild way of putting it. He accuses Islam of colonizing Europe through 'demographic warfare'. Living in Europe is an act of war to him. In the video, he claims the war started in 1999. He's not 'predicting' it, he's fighting it. No way. I have to question if you look at any of the materials that this guy put out before writing this. This guy had a hatred of "multiculturalist traitors" and members of the Labour Party would certainly qualify by his earlier definition. One of the chapters of his book is called "A politically incorrect guide to the lynching of mulitculturalist traitors", and he jokes that it would have been funny to write 'executing Class A and B Cultural Marxists/multiculturalist traitors' on the application form for the guns he used to murder the children. Book 3 of his 1500 page work is called 'A declaration of preemptive war' where he sketches out how he sees the next 70 years of European history, and it's clear he wants to start a European Civil war between Conservatives and Multiculturalists. Attacking ('lynching') multiculturalists seem to be the first phase of his strategy. He wants to overthrow mainstream politics with far-right conservatives, cleanse Europe of political enemies through a systematic campaign of death squad assassinations and then the rightists can lead the crusade (his video is rather big on narcissistic crusader imagery) to cleanse Europe of muslims. This guy is actively fantasising about living in a fascist terror-state where people who disagree with him get murdered (though he dislikes the term 'fascist' for technical ideological reasons). 'Cultural Marxists', as he call them, aren't a 'Plan B' type target, 'multiculturalists' are the priority. They're to be exterminated first. I disagree. You don't understand his line of thinking. You've systematically replaced his line of thinking with a much more moderate line of thinking that you DO understand. Thanks for all this. Did you read all his manifesto ? | ||
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Deleted User 124618
1142 Posts
Cops: Norway gunman claims he acted alone I think this is very good news: it was only a lone lunatic, I feel very good that there isn't a new extremist group in scandinavia. | ||
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Aim Here
Scotland672 Posts
On July 24 2011 18:52 WhiteDog wrote: Thanks for all this. Did you read all his manifesto ? No, there's a LOT of it, of course. I read enough to see that the picture painted by the previous poster was very wrong, though. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 24 2011 18:56 Aim Here wrote: No, there's a LOT of it, of course. I read enough to see that the picture painted by the previous poster was very wrong, though. Well you were still pretty brave to dig into this shit, thank for enlighting us even if the light is not very white for this particular event. | ||
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
add all the hours we all spend hearing about this dude and getting pissed off...that's like a few more lives he just ended right there again. | ||
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Kayama
Norway8 Posts
To all of u who are afraid this guy will get out: he will not. Our system with max sentence 21 years may not seem like the best, but as others has pointed out...... we can keep him locked up till he dies. The kids he tried to wipe out, will in a few years be the top politicians in our country. They will never ever allow him to walk the streets again, and risk him doing anything to anyone. I find it so hard to understand that one of our "own" would do this to our kids. We always think that if we were ever to be attacked it would be from the "outside", not from the inside. This makes it even scarier. Its alot easier for a norwegian to hide what he is up to than for people from a foreign country. This feels like a nightmare, and i hope i'll wake up soon. | ||
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sickle
New Zealand656 Posts
On July 24 2011 18:54 Greentellon wrote: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43857267/ns/world_news-europe/ Cops: Norway gunman claims he acted alone I think this is very good news: it was only a lone lunatic, I feel very good that there isn't a new extremist group in scandinavia. Key word - 'claims' | ||
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Aim Here
Scotland672 Posts
On July 24 2011 18:54 Greentellon wrote: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43857267/ns/world_news-europe/ Cops: Norway gunman claims he acted alone I think this is very good news: it was only a lone lunatic, I feel very good that there isn't a new extremist group in scandinavia. Well that depends. If a single disgruntled fascist can carry out a mass terror attack like this, then these sorts of attacks will be harder to stop, since there's less scope for infililtration by the police or intelligence services. His manifesto is, in part, a manual describing how a single person can carry out such an attack, for use by future terrorists. Having said that, the book does show he had difficulty getting illegal firearms - and so resorted to legal ones, and he needed to set up a front company to obtain large quantities of fertiliser to make his bomb - so I'd predict that restrictions on agricultural products that can be used for explosives, and gun control will likely follow in Norway. | ||
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chocopaw
2072 Posts
Thanks. "A Knights Templar does not fear death, he desires it." "... for we will soon dine in the kingdoms of heaven." Sounds familiar. | ||
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
"I am noticing increased pressure from my friends and family to come visit me at the farm. I am countering by saying I will be done with this seasons work within x weeks, and that they are more than welcome to visit me then. This has worked for 2 months now, but this pressure will increase progressively as I delay." "It is now 8 days since I was forced to drastically reduce my winstrol intake and 2 days since I ran out of both winstrol and DBOL tabs. I'm noticing slight symptoms of withdrawal resulting in loss of muscle mass (down 3kg from my peak at 96kg). I'm also low on no-Xplode and protein powder." Conclusion: Might be worth checking in from time to time on single males age 27-32 without a steady girlfriend and who also intakes anabolic steroids. "Because, why would you bless your people with the ultimate gift of love if every single person hates you?" Conclusion: 4 hours 16 minutes later, i figure out that looks can be deceiving. apparently this dude is as crazy and mentally sick as i thought he was. i should have known that even 6 foot tall blokes can have severe mental disorders... would have saved me a few hours. | ||
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Sotamursu
Finland612 Posts
On July 24 2011 19:19 IzieBoy wrote: Conclusion: 4 hours 16 minutes later, i figure out that looks can be deceiving. apparently this dude is as crazy and mentally sick as i thought he was. i should have known that even 6 foot tall blokes can have severe mental disorders... would have saved me a few hours. I guess you never watched American Psycho. | ||
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Eurekastreet
1308 Posts
On July 24 2011 18:47 WhiteDog wrote: It's wrong for half islam : the most extremist islam view Europe as desecrated earth that all muslim should flee to return to the house of Islam (the middle east), it's the moderate Islam that view Europe as a earth of proselytism. And every religion seek to globalize... it's the same for christianism, yet with time they came to forget that idea and became a pretty peaceful organisation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_population_growth Based on those figures, I wouldn't say christians have stopped trying to globalize. They'might be losing market share in some parts of Europe but it's probably insignificant for their worldwide business, they'll try and fix that if they need to I am sure. I would not call it a peaceful religion either. Unlike islam, they separated from the state politics in many places so every time a shitstorm happens, they can claim "not guilty" but still their sheeps seem to be very enclined to carry their message adamantly. Yesterday's event by a self proclaimed templar peaceful ? The past couple of years pedophilia scandals peaceful ? Rwanda genocide (christians massacring each other) peaceful ? Bush's "God Bless America" before going to Irak peaceful ? And so on and so on. The older I get, the more I think we'd be better off without any religion at all. | ||
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