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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect! |
On July 27 2011 14:46 ThePhan2m wrote:
He wasn't fully normal. Some ways he thinks is just weird. Like for instance, he was sure he was going to get shot while driving in and out of the court building yesterday, he said to his lawyer. Also, he has this idea that is torture in the Norwegian prison. He has many delusional thoughts.
Well, with all due respect I do understand why he thought he'd be shot on his way to court. Because you see, some people wants vengeance for what he did. Vengeance can be applied differently. Believe me, I dislike the guy as much as everyone else, but I wouldn't say that his thoughts are that delusional. He's a right-wing extremist, and most likely a psychopath; but so far he's been acting "pretty sane" considering the situation he is in.
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http://www.pressfire.no/nyheter/PC/3746/spill-dreper-ikke
This was linked to on one of the biggest newspaper websites in Norway(Dagbladet). It's an article about the fact that games don't kill. They state that they think it's wrong by Pat Brown(an american of course) to say that it was the games that made him kill.
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On July 27 2011 13:04 LoLAdriankat wrote:http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/war_in_europe01.shtmlWhen someone who went through a Neo-Nazi phase, burned down several churches, and stabbed a former bandmate to death looks down on Breivik, you know this guy went too far (if you were somehow unable to make that judgement in the first place).
LOL Varg, keep on keepin' on.
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There seems to be some confusion of what AUF actually is. Some people in here seem to think the camp at Utöya was a camp for children. As far as I know (and I'm basicly thinking of the Swedish equivalent of the same organisation, SSU) most members are adults, either in their late teens or twenties. I don't think there are any rules that say you have to be above 18, so I suppose some are technically children. But most are adults.
In Sweden basicly all parties have youth organisations, and they are pretty independent from the mother parties and are often heard to critisize their mother parties since they often don't share the exact same believes. They choose their own leaders democratically and have a democratic policy making structure. So there is no indoctrination (other than the effect of hanging out with a bunch of people who mostly share the same political opinions).
So any comparison with Hitler Jugend is just fucked up. Even saying "it sounds a little like" is fucked up. And it's not a camp for "kids" (I assume it works the same as Swedish SSU, correct me if wrong). And mentioning Hitler Jugend and the AUF in the same sentence gives an uninformed listener the wrong impression, even if he is not directly comparing them. It gives the wrong type of associations, which is obviously intentional. The effect is the same as if he would have directly compared them.
Edit: Maybe a Norweigian member could confirm or correct, if there is one here.
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On July 27 2011 13:04 LoLAdriankat wrote:http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/war_in_europe01.shtmlWhen someone who went through a Neo-Nazi phase, burned down several churches, and stabbed a former bandmate to death looks down on Breivik, you know this guy went too far (if you were somehow unable to make that judgement in the first place).
And I thought after his 20 years or something in prison (afaik the longest time someone spend in norwegian prison) he dropped his nazi-conspiracy stuff... haha
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On July 27 2011 22:26 Lord_of_Chaos wrote:
There seems to be some confusion of what AUF actually is. Some people in here seem to think the camp at Utöya was a camp for children. As far as I know (and I'm basicly thinking of the Swedish equivalent of the same organisation, SSU) most members are adults, either in their late teens or twenties. I don't think there are any rules that say you have to be above 18, so I suppose some are technically children. But most are adults.
In Sweden basicly all parties have youth organisations, and they are pretty independent from the mother parties and are often heard to critisize their mother parties since they often don't share the exact same believes. They choose their own leaders democratically and have a democratic policy making structure. So there is no indoctrination (other than the effect of hanging out with a bunch of people who mostly share the same political opinions).
So any comparison with Hitler Jugend is just fucked up. Even saying "it sounds a little like" is fucked up. And it's not a camp for "kids" (I assume it works the same as Swedish SSU, correct me if wrong). And mentioning Hitler Jugend and the AUF in the same sentence gives an uninformed listener the wrong impression, even if he is not directly comparing them. It gives the wrong type of associations, which is obviously intentional. The effect is the same as if he would have directly compared them.
Edit: Maybe a Norweigian member could confirm or correct, if there is one here.
You are mostly right, but you can become a member once you are 13 I think, and many of the members are younger than 18 (though few are younger than 16 just because few people take an active interest in politics before that). Having been in such an organization myself, I can guarantee you that they have a fully democratic structure and that everybody in them are there at their own free will. There is nothing that separates the leaders of the organization from other members except that the leaders have more admistrational responsabilities. All decisions and elections within the organization are made collectively (i.e. by vote).
Politicians and other people will speak at their meetings sometimes, but only by invitation. There is a lot of discussion going on at all the meetings, and everybody are free to speak in them, so there is as said above no indoctrination except the reinforcement of beliefs that happens when you speak a lot to people who already agree with you.
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A transcript of text messages between mother & daughter:
Julie Bremnes: Mummy, tell the police that they must be quick. People are dying here!
Marianne Bremnes: I'm working on it, Julie. The police are on their way. Dare you call me?
J: No.
J: Tell the police that there is a mad man running around and shooting people.
J: They must hurry!
M: The police know and they have had many calls. It is going well, Julie. Police are calling us now. Give us a sign of life every five minutes please?
J: OK.
J: We are in fear for our lives.
M: I understand that very well, my darling. Stay hidden, do not move anywhere! The police are already on their way, if they haven't already arrived! Do you see anyone injured or killed?
J: We are hiding in the rocks along the coast.
M: Good! Should I ask your grandfather to come down and pick you up when everything is safe again? You have the option.
J: Yes.
M: We will contact Grandpa immediately.
J: I love you even if we quarrel from time to time.
J: And I'm not panicking even if I'm s*** scared.
M: I know that my darling. We love you too very much. Do you still hear shooting?
J: No.
M: Have you heard anything from the other people from Tromso? Grandpa is on his way down.
J: The police are here.
M: The person shooting is said to be in police uniform. Be careful! What happens to you now?
J: We do not know.
M: Can you talk now?
J: No. He is still shooting!
M: Joergen has swum to the shore. I just spoke to his father. This is everywhere on the national news now, all attention on Utoya now. Be careful! When you get the chance, you come to the mainland and stay with Grandpa of Hamar.
J: I'm still alive.
M: And thanks and praise for that.
J: We are waiting to be picked up by the police. We heard shooting just now, so we dared not get up.
M: Good! Good, well done. The evacuation is now ongoing, they are saying on TV.
J: We hope we will be picked up by someone soon. Can they not catch him soon?!
M: The anti-terrorism unit is there and they are working on catching him.
J: OK.
M: Should we try to get the flight home tomorrow?
J: I have no time to think about that now.
M: I understand that.
M: Do you know if they have managed to catch him?
M: Will keep you posted, my darling. We are following everything on television.
M: Hey, are you there?
J: Yes. The helicopters are circling above us.
M: Then you should be OK?
J: They are looking for people in the water, we have not been picked up yet!
J: What are they saying in the news?
M: The police are also arriving by boat to Utoya, otherwise nothing new. It is not clear what's happened to the shooter so keep still. Wait for someone to pick you up.
M: Now they have taken him!
Dunno, but I actually shed a few tears when I read this. :,(
source: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2011/07/27/norway-massacre-mother-tells-of-daughter-s-terror-texts-from-utoya-death-island-86908-23300536/
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This is all I can focus on right now, it's all I think about, and without knowing anyone involved it pains me so much 
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On July 27 2011 12:45 arcfyr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:38 BleaK_ wrote:
One of my friends were on Utøya, and he is still missing. I can't begins to describe the feeling of maybe not seeing a person that once sat beside me. We met in parties, we had good discussions and we played alot of dota together (he was really good in that as well).
It is a feeling which leaves me with constant "mageknip" (stomach-hurt?) and words just can't describe it enough. I have been together with friends which also know him, and we have cried and hugged eachother many times over the last few days. Even though hope is small, we can't do anything else but believe...
It's been some really sad days here in Norway... My best wishes to you and to the families of all the victims and all of their friends. It's all the more shocking and sad to hear from people so close to the tragedy. I cannot imagine being put in the same situation or how awful it must feel right now. =(
Thank you very much. It helps that so many people care, both inside and outside of Norway.
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On July 27 2011 22:26 Lord_of_Chaos wrote:
There seems to be some confusion of what AUF actually is. Some people in here seem to think the camp at Utöya was a camp for children. As far as I know (and I'm basicly thinking of the Swedish equivalent of the same organisation, SSU) most members are adults, either in their late teens or twenties. I don't think there are any rules that say you have to be above 18, so I suppose some are technically children. But most are adults.
In Sweden basicly all parties have youth organisations, and they are pretty independent from the mother parties and are often heard to critisize their mother parties since they often don't share the exact same believes. They choose their own leaders democratically and have a democratic policy making structure. So there is no indoctrination (other than the effect of hanging out with a bunch of people who mostly share the same political opinions).
So any comparison with Hitler Jugend is just fucked up. Even saying "it sounds a little like" is fucked up. And it's not a camp for "kids" (I assume it works the same as Swedish SSU, correct me if wrong). And mentioning Hitler Jugend and the AUF in the same sentence gives an uninformed listener the wrong impression, even if he is not directly comparing them. It gives the wrong type of associations, which is obviously intentional. The effect is the same as if he would have directly compared them.
Edit: Maybe a Norweigian member could confirm or correct, if there is one here.
Its pretty much exactly like that, except most are under 20, but over 13-14. They go by free will to discuss with likeminded people. I don't think I have ever heard of anyone who doesn't want to go that has been forced there (From any of the youth parties, not just AUF) and it is a democratic organization designed to nurture the youngsters interest in politics until they can have an active role in the main party or whichever party they want to.
And it is true, the young party often disagree and critizise (spelling?) the mother party, not something you would see in an organization that was not democratic. All the youth parties are like that. Hitler Youth? Not so much, and it is an insult to say the least to imply something like that. More like a chess club, except for politics.
Fuck you Glenn Beck, I hope your show gets cancelled, name forgotten and that you die poor, alone, and in misery you sensationalist scum of the earth. You are a despicable man for exploiting a tragedy like this promote your political views.
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On July 28 2011 03:07 Chinchillin wrote:This is all I can focus on right now, it's all I think about, and without knowing anyone involved it pains me so much
Same for me. I haven't been able to think about anything else. Whenever i got time i go and check the recent news. It just feel so surreal. Sweden and Norway share so much history, it kinda feels like someone attacked our brother. The scandinavian countries must show that these things will not make us shiver they will only make us stronger! Much love to Norway xxx
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I'm confused. Does anyone know what this guy's agenda was? Like, what was his reasoning for these killings?
I cannot find a clear explanation anywhere.
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On July 28 2011 20:36 TALegion wrote:
I'm confused. Does anyone know what this guy's agenda was? Like, what was his reasoning for these killings?
I cannot find a clear explanation anywhere.
Then your searching skills are horribly bad.
Read the OP.
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On July 28 2011 20:36 TALegion wrote:
I'm confused. Does anyone know what this guy's agenda was? Like, what was his reasoning for these killings?
I cannot find a clear explanation anywhere.
To start a war against those who promotes multiculturalism. If you look carefully through this thread you will find links to his manfiest, he explains it pretty clearly in there.
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Norway didn't ban the games or did they? If not it's their way of saying that they dont want to have anything to do with ABB. It's their choice they can do whatever they want if it's within the law. But i think it's just a PR trick.
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On July 29 2011 23:57 Weson wrote:Norway didn't ban the games or did they? If not it's their way of saying that they dont want to have anything to do with ABB. It's their choice they can do whatever they want if it's within the law. But i think it's just a PR trick.
Norway did not ban the games, it's a PR stunt as far as I can tell.
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On July 29 2011 23:57 Weson wrote:Norway didn't ban the games or did they? If not it's their way of saying that they dont want to have anything to do with ABB. It's their choice they can do whatever they want if it's within the law. But i think it's just a PR trick.
No, Norway didn't ban anything. Platekompaniet and Coop Norway, two privately owned companies, did it on own initiative.
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10081059
Being a gaming enthusiast, I obviously find this to be silly. An emotional gut-reaction which goes out to label games as negative rather than trying to contribute constructively to what after-effects these events need.
Edit: I was thinking of maybe grabbing a gift card on Platekopaniet as a birthday gift for my sister, but after this reaction, I'm taking my business elsewhere. Hopefully others will react the same.
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EPT
