EPTA Cure for Alcoholism? - Page 4
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On July 16 2011 14:07 Gummy wrote: so it says you don't gain tolerance to any considerable degree, and yet you can suffer severe and dangerous withdrawal symptoms if you suddenly stop. I don't understand how this is not contradictory. You must be misunderstanding the meaning of tolerance... Drug tolerance means that the subjects reaction to the drug, or the effects that the drug has at a specific dose, reduces over time. This means that the patient gets "used to" a dose, and therefore has to take ever higher doses in order for it to be effective. | ||
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
On July 16 2011 14:14 jdseemoreglass wrote: You must be misunderstanding the meaning of tolerance... Drug tolerance means that the subjects reaction to the drug, or the effects that the drug has at a specific dose, reduces over time. This means that the patient gets "used to" a dose, and therefore has to take ever higher doses in order for it to be effective. How is something not addictive, but have withdrawal symptoms though? It says that in the OP, in the facts about the drug. The first thing it says is its not addictive, the last thing is says is if you stop taking it suddenly you can have withdrawals (which to me means that its addictive). | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On July 16 2011 14:26 Wrongspeedy wrote: How is something not addictive, but have withdrawal symptoms though? It says that in the OP, in the facts about the drug. The first thing it says is its not addictive, the last thing is says is if you stop taking it suddenly you can have withdrawals (which to me means that its addictive). Uh. Hm. The two are related, but not directly. Like how squares are rectangles, but rectangles aren't squares. Withdrawal isn't EXCLUSIVELY a symptom of addiction. But Addiction can cause withdrawal. | ||
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
On July 16 2011 14:29 Chargelot wrote: Uh. Hm. The two are related, but not directly. Like how squares are rectangles, but rectangles aren't squares. Withdrawal isn't EXCLUSIVELY a symptom of addiction. But Addiction can cause withdrawal. Except DSM IV takes withdrawal as one of and the main criteria for the diagnosis of addiction: http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/subdep.htm | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On July 16 2011 14:26 Wrongspeedy wrote: How is something not addictive, but have withdrawal symptoms though? It says that in the OP, in the facts about the drug. The first thing it says is its not addictive, the last thing is says is if you stop taking it suddenly you can have withdrawals (which to me means that its addictive). The American Society of Addiction Medicine has this definition for Addiction: Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. This is reflected in the individual pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors. The addiction is characterized by impairment in behavioral control, craving, inability to consistently abstain, and diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships. In other words, baclofen does not exhibit any signs of psychological dependence. It doesn't produce cravings, it doesn't impair behavioral control, it isn't progressive, etc. It does, however, produce a physical dependency, which is distinct from addiction as it is currently defined. On July 16 2011 14:00 -fj. wrote: if it binds to GABA receptors, wouldn't it make you drunk just like good old ethyl hydroxide ? I guess the answer is yes, but that its like methadone for alcohol The "drunkenness" caused by alcohol has many different causes, not simply GABA action. Drugs that act as agonists of GABA receptors (known as GABA analogues or GABAergic drugs) or increase the available amount of GABA typically have relaxing, anti-anxiety, and anti-convulsive effects. Alcohol also has these effects, but they are not the sole effects produced. In other words, baclofen mimics drunkenness when it comes to the effects of drowsiness, relaxation, anti-anxiety, etc., but none others. | ||
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Thacis
United States10 Posts
IE: Work, sex, reading, gaming, gambling, biding for items on ebay, anything you can think of... There is not, nor will be a "cure" for this, as it is a life long affliction. It is only manageable with either therapy or antidepressants (usually a combination of the two). | ||
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kef
283 Posts
-People who say alcoholism isn't a disease have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. -People complaining that treatment using baclofen is essentially a replacement for alcohol need to look deeper at the issue. The Baclofen would have a specific dosage to be prescribed by a medical professional, and most likely would be coupled with therapy, etc. to maximize effectiveness (which is essentially what they already do today). So if you want to oversimplify it, then yes you're just taking a pill. But in reality, for the most effective treatment you won't just be taking a pill. | ||
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Jehct
New Zealand9115 Posts
On July 16 2011 14:37 Gummy wrote: Except DSM IV takes withdrawal as one of and the main criteria for the diagnosis of addiction: http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/subdep.htm Ever been on antidepressants? There's definite withdrawal symptoms if you don't 'taper off them', but you certainly don't ever feel like you want to take them/your body doesn't 'crave' them (depending on the antidepressant, I'd assume). | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1601 Posts
On July 16 2011 15:00 Thacis wrote: This is stilly, Alcoholism and Drug addiction are really just a form of OCD. People who suffer from it do not need drugs or alcohol to demonstrate the behavior, it manifests in just about any activity that brings the person out of themselves. IE: Work, sex, reading, gaming, gambling, biding for items on ebay, anything you can think of... There is not, nor will be a "cure" for this, as it is a life long affliction. It is only manageable with either therapy or antidepressants (usually a combination of the two). I was going to go to the reverse direction of this. This may relex or revert their attention from alcohol, but those who are addicted to alcohol are probably addicted to something else as well which will then be put in overdrive. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
congrats to all the people posting ITT who've never had a drink in their lives and feel superior to alcohol addicts, you're huge douches alcoholism is like the worst disease in the world because it's the only one that people LOOK DOWN on you for having. it's not like if they released a pill for curing cancer people would be saying "yeah well you just shouldn't have cancer, get some better genes!" and yet it's not considered snobby or rude when people are like "oh you're addicted to alcohol? lol yeah right just stop drinking n00b." completely baffles me alcohol has completely destroyed my family, i'm currently dealing with my mom completely out of control of her life, physically unable to stop drinking. it's sad and depressing and what's even worse is that people refuse to support her through her disease because they view it as self-inflicted rather than something out of her control anyways, i'd rather have my mom take 300mg of a pill that satisfies/eliminates her craving without turning her into the raging, angry, alcoholic person that she is on booze. saying that one dependence is no better than the other is a huge oversimplification | ||
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Sixotanaka
Australia191 Posts
On July 16 2011 15:33 gtrsrs wrote: wow the ignorance in this topic is fucking stupid congrats to all the people posting ITT who've never had a drink in their lives and feel superior to alcohol addicts, you're huge douches alcoholism is like the worst disease in the world because it's the only one that people LOOK DOWN on you for having. it's not like if they released a pill for curing cancer people would be saying "yeah well you just shouldn't have cancer, get some better genes!" and yet it's not considered snobby or rude when people are like "oh you're addicted to alcohol? lol yeah right just stop drinking n00b." completely baffles me alcohol has completely destroyed my family, i'm currently dealing with my mom completely out of control of her life, physically unable to stop drinking. it's sad and depressing and what's even worse is that people refuse to support her through her disease because they view it as self-inflicted rather than something out of her control anyways, i'd rather have my mom take 300mg of a pill that satisfies/eliminates her craving without turning her into the raging, angry, alcoholic person that she is on booze. saying that one dependence is no better than the other is a huge oversimplification I don't want to sound condescending however, I've helped a few friends break away from opiate addictions. I know what you're going through, it's tough. But TL isn't a place to get out these frustrations, go hit a punching bag. I also know about the whole 'looking down' on thing. I'm a high functioning schizophrenic. I'm open and honest about it, because it doesn't impact my day-to-day activities. I've had a lot of 'friends' and girlfriends leave me because of this, and it sucks really bad. The difference between alcoholism and schizophrenia is that one you're born with, one you acquire. That's why these people think they are justified in looking down on it. Whether that's morally right, or wrong, is a topic for another discussion however. The thing is, is that Alcoholism starts as a mental dependency, then it progresses to the point where the withdrawal symptoms can completely shut your body down. The reason quite a lot of people say you should just put it down, is that in the initial stages, and for quite a long time, you can. The only thing stopping you from putting down the drink is yourself. That's not to say your mother hasn't already crossed the threshold though. EDIT: This took me about 3-4 tries to write, because each time I sounded pretentious, or cruel. I don't want to do either, and I apologize if that's how I sound. EDIT2: Let me clarify, I'm not a paranoid schizophrenic, just a plain old schizophrenic, a lot of people confuse the two terms. | ||
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starsucks
233 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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ladytr0n
United States51 Posts
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On July 16 2011 17:59 ladytr0n wrote: hahahahaha. addiction is a disease roooofff. I sat in court ordered NA meetings for 2 yrs listening to people with 0 self control preach that shit. I was a mass drug addict and it simply came down to making wiser choices and resisting the temptation to use. 5 years clean ... no disease in sight rofl ... it's not a disease in a sense of u can catch it. u r responsible for getting it. but after u got it the chemicals in your brain are messed up. and every addiction is different. it's not as simple as a mere choice. alcohol addiction stays with u for the rest of your life. I'm glad that you stopped using those drugs and I have respect for that, but maybe alcohol addiction is different to your addictions. | ||
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DisneylandSC
Netherlands435 Posts
Side-effects: none Costs: free | ||
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EdaPoe
Netherlands82 Posts
http://reason.com/blog/2009/11/19/niaaa-official-says-alcoholism , http://www.bhrm.org/papers/AAand DiseaseConcept.pdf | ||
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On July 16 2011 18:21 DisneylandSC wrote: Alternate cure: stop drinking alcohol. Side-effects: none Costs: free Side-Effects: pain, withdrawal, serious cravings for a lifetime. risk of a fallback nearly every day. Costs: Most of your social connections because it is really hard to hang out with you and you can never be taken to a party where alcohol is given out, while on the other hand a pill might have prevented all of that stuff. | ||
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Arnstein
Norway3381 Posts
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