On July 16 2011 12:00 Roe wrote: I can't find the part where it says when they get off the new drug...Or...do they ever get off it? Sure, people say it's non addictive, but if you can't go off the drug without relapsing....that seems like it's just a replacement.
A matter of weighing up pros and cons I suppose. I would wager that being addicted to this is better for your family, friends and yourself than being addicted to alcohol.
On July 16 2011 11:01 SirazTV wrote: I actually heard this guy on NPR a few weeks back and basically it is replacing one drug with another. I really don't see this being all that useful.
The part about: "It is non-addictive, doesn't produce cravings, and has been safely prescribed for more than 40 years" is pretty damn important. Can't say that about alcohol.
On July 16 2011 11:01 KimJongChill wrote: haha, sounds like a miracle, but life is hardly ever so easily dealt with.
Modern medicine seems to be able to 'easily' deal with quite a lot of illnesses. (Most of these has been long forgotten by the general first world population.) Hopefully alcoholism will go the same way.
Well... modern medicine is full of shit.
Not sure if serious.
Well, of course im serious. I am an user f many drugs, for the last 15 years of my life. Im kind of a jonky. I know for sure that some drugs make you lose interest in some other "softer" related drugs (like heroin does over morphine addicts) and im in quite of an aknowledge around the pharmaceutical "issue" with all the most wide overextended cultural and natural drugs, like alcohol, canabis, amanita, and mezcalina. I could add coffe to this list and talk a bit about energetic taureen-based drinks... how the first are growth in third world countries while the second are made in labs in the developed countries. Pharmaceutical companies are full of shit.
Modern medicine is about that... about sustainning illness so pharmaceutical companies can make more money selling pills. Modern medicine is not about curing illness, its about provoking drug (pill) dependency.
So now they have "the cure to alcoholism".
full of shit, they just are gonna develope a new race of jonkies.
On July 16 2011 12:00 Roe wrote: I can't find the part where it says when they get off the new drug...Or...do they ever get off it? Sure, people say it's non addictive, but if you can't go off the drug without relapsing....that seems like it's just a replacement.
This post is either pure wisdom or pure noob enlightment. Smart guy anyway. And im pretty sure there is way more control over this new drug than over the alcohol. Do the maths, guys... is better for you? or is it better for your owners?
On July 16 2011 10:29 R0YAL wrote: It seems silly to me that you can say "cure for alcoholism," its not like alcoholism is a diagnosis. Its just people who cant control their drinking habits. Interesting nonetheless.
On July 16 2011 10:27 raja91 wrote: You have to be pretty stupid to start abusing alcohol in the first place.
Spoken like people who have no f'ing idea what they are talking about. Alcoholism is a serious problem.
A prescription drug that could cure alcoholism would be a pretty huge deal.
Didn't say it wasn't a problem, it obviously is. But it isn't a disease or anything. You arn't born with alcoholism, you can't "catch" alcoholism.
Like I said you don't know what you are talking about. Studies have proven it to be hereditary.
On July 16 2011 10:29 R0YAL wrote: It seems silly to me that you can say "cure for alcoholism," its not like alcoholism is a diagnosis. Its just people who cant control their drinking habits. Interesting nonetheless.
This is why no one respects us Americans.
We talk a lot. Usually have no idea what we're talking about.
On July 16 2011 12:10 Crue wrote: i heard the cure for alcoholism is restraint. :X
It's hard to explain addiction to people. Addiction supersedes will, every time. You'll never hear of a crack addict who just one day decided "I'm going to stop being a crack addict, and start being awesome instead!" and then just stopped.
Your brain is addicted. To the chemicals. In your brain.
Shocking, I know. But the chemicals that are naturally in your brain, like say dopamine, are used to reward and punish behavior. It's your physical brain's way of controlling your psychological mind.
Going around touching fire seems like a horrible idea because of how much being burned hurts. Likewise, cookies are awesome because of how great they taste.
Each of these actions release chemicals into your brain that say "good job, human! You ate a delicious cookie and now we won't starve to death for the next 2 hours!" or "What the fuck were you thinking idiot? I can't believe you're actually a part of me. FIRE? ARE YOU KIDDING? THAT'S BAD MOTHER FUCKER!"
Introducing any drug that effects the chemical make-up of your brain, such as narcotics, stimulants, or depressants (like alcohol), over a long period of time, changes the way your brain responds to these types of chemicals.
Mixed with psychological/emotional trauma, like say being left by your wife, this could induce the perfect environment for a PHYSICAL dependance upon the drug in question. It isn't a matter of will, because you can't will your body into being no longer dependent on something. Real alcoholics are in real PAIN when they don't drink. It isn't them being stupid or not wanting to change. It's them not wanting to hurt.
From the outside looking in it's easy to say "Well, just stop for like 2 weeks and the rest of your life is better!" but from the inside, you don't feel like you've got a choice. You feel hopeless. You feel constricted.
That is why something like this is a fucking miracle on every level. Even if it's not the true cure, it's a big step. Bravo to science.
On July 16 2011 10:53 Craton wrote: So a few things stuck out at me: -71% stayed abstinent for 12 weeks. What about after that? Why is 12 weeks significant? -I saw no mention of whether or not people eventually stop taking Baclofen or if it is a lifelong treatment. -Is there some kind of relationship between MS and alcoholism, as Plexa's mention of the drugs for each being intertwined?
As I understand it, rehab (notably the 12 step program) is pretty shaky to begin with. I recall hearing about studies that said it was largely ineffective/useless (this was mentioned in opposition to judicially mandated 12 step programs). Maybe someone can shed more light on whether or not rehab is even a good benchmark to be comparing this drug to. Moreover, what is the rate for treating alcoholism via placebo. 71% seems significant, but I have nothing to compare it to besides results of questionably effective rehab.
12 weeks is significant because that was the length of the study.
I provided a link to the study, where you will see that the placebo experienced 29% abstinence compared to 71% in the baclofen group.
It is true that 12-step programs/AA have very poor success rates. Their own estimates state that within 3 years, 95% of people have dropped out.
On July 16 2011 12:00 Roe wrote: I can't find the part where it says when they get off the new drug...Or...do they ever get off it? Sure, people say it's non addictive, but if you can't go off the drug without relapsing....that seems like it's just a replacement.
OP here...
It is true that if baclofen is stopped, the cravings can come back. Therefore, it is likely a life-long commitment. The standard procedure is to steadily raise the dose until the patient experiences the "switch," which is a state of complete indifference to alcohol. After that point, the dose is steadily reduced as low as possible, until the patient finds the "sustainment" dosage where cravings for alcohol do not return.
Dr. Olivier Ameisen, who was the first to self-prescribe baclofen, reached a dose of 270 mg/day before he reached complete indifference to alcohol, and was able to stop drinking completely, or even choose to have a drink now and then socially. Unfortunately, at that high dose he experienced too much drowsiness, so he steadily reduced the dose to 120 mg/day. He stayed at that dose for several years, but I heard that recently he is sustaining at 50 mg/day.
I guess the point is, we don't really know much about the treatment yet. Perhaps it's possible to get through the withdrawal and cravings with baclofen, and then use cognitive behavioral therapy while you get off the drug, in order to achieve abstinence from both.
In either case, it is clear that baclofen is a significantly improved substitute in comparison to alcohol. Alcohol causes severe health issues, as well as social problems like losing your job, which baclofen does not cause. Baclofen doesn't make you drunk, or damage your liver, or give you intense cravings for ever higher doses like alcohol does. If baclofen can save lives, and it certainly can, then it should be considered as an option when all other methods and programs fail.
Seems cool if it continues to work, but I, personally, would be very wary of trying anything like 300mgs a day (or the drug at all) unless I were a dead end alcoholic with money to spend (which I am not) (and I assume this drug is fairly expensive).
I agree with the 300 mg a day part. It can't be good in the long run but I guess drinking isn't either. Also, he clearly stated that it was off patent and cheap if you had red to the end
I'm not sure what it's called but isn't this much like the stuff they give go heroine ? Methadone or what ever it's called ?
Seems cool if it continues to work, but I, personally, would be very wary of trying anything like 300mgs a day (or the drug at all) unless I were a dead end alcoholic with money to spend (which I am not) (and I assume this drug is fairly expensive).
I agree with the 300 mg a day part. It can't be good in the long run but I guess drinking isn't either. Also, he clearly stated that it was off patent and cheap if you had red to the end
I'm not sure what it's called but isn't this much like the stuff they give go heroine ? Methadone or what ever it's called ?
Methadone is a horrible comparison. That stuff is like rat poison. It's like chemotherapy. It's a horrible thing for the body. But given the circumstances, it's necessary. Cause it's do or die. This case sounds much less drastic.
Seems cool if it continues to work, but I, personally, would be very wary of trying anything like 300mgs a day (or the drug at all) unless I were a dead end alcoholic with money to spend (which I am not) (and I assume this drug is fairly expensive).
Seems cool if it continues to work, but I, personally, would be very wary of trying anything like 300mgs a day (or the drug at all) unless I were a dead end alcoholic with money to spend (which I am not) (and I assume this drug is fairly expensive).
I agree with the 300 mg a day part. It can't be good in the long run but I guess drinking isn't either. Also, he clearly stated that it was off patent and cheap if you had red to the end
I'm not sure what it's called but isn't this much like the stuff they give go heroine ? Methadone or what ever it's called ?
This is the same basic concept as methadone treatment, substituting one drug for another. But methadone is much, much worse than baclofen. It has worse health and side effects, and has a very high rate of dependence. Those that use baclofen have little trouble tapering their dose down, while with methadone it is an extremely difficult process.
Seems cool if it continues to work, but I, personally, would be very wary of trying anything like 300mgs a day (or the drug at all) unless I were a dead end alcoholic with money to spend (which I am not) (and I assume this drug is fairly expensive).
I agree with the 300 mg a day part. It can't be good in the long run but I guess drinking isn't either. Also, he clearly stated that it was off patent and cheap if you had red to the end
I'm not sure what it's called but isn't this much like the stuff they give go heroine ? Methadone or what ever it's called ?
Methadone is a horrible comparison. That stuff is like rat poison. It's like chemotherapy. It's a horrible thing for the body. But given the circumstances, it's necessary. Cause it's do or die. This case sounds much less drastic.
Methadone is a synthetic opiate that will stop making other opiates giving you euphoria. It is nothing like rat poison in anyway. It has no serious side effects if taken as prescribed.
EDIT: yes methadone is just as addictive as other opiates but it will allow you to get your life together before you start the uncomfortable weaning off process.
On July 16 2011 12:10 Crue wrote: i heard the cure for alcoholism is restraint. :X
It's hard to explain addiction to people. Addiction supersedes will, every time. You'll never hear of a crack addict who just one day decided "I'm going to stop being a crack addict, and start being awesome instead!" and then just stopped.
Your brain is addicted. To the chemicals. In your brain.
Shocking, I know. But the chemicals that are naturally in your brain, like say dopamine, are used to reward and punish behavior. It's your physical brain's way of controlling your psychological mind.
Going around touching fire seems like a horrible idea because of how much being burned hurts. Likewise, cookies are awesome because of how great they taste.
Each of these actions release chemicals into your brain that say "good job, human! You ate a delicious cookie and now we won't starve to death for the next 2 hours!" or "What the fuck were you thinking idiot? I can't believe you're actually a part of me. FIRE? ARE YOU KIDDING? THAT'S BAD MOTHER FUCKER!"
Introducing any drug that effects the chemical make-up of your brain, such as narcotics, stimulants, or depressants (like alcohol), over a long period of time, changes the way your brain responds to these types of chemicals.
Mixed with psychological/emotional trauma, like say being left by your wife, this could induce the perfect environment for a PHYSICAL dependance upon the drug in question. It isn't a matter of will, because you can't will your body into being no longer dependent on something. Real alcoholics are in real PAIN when they don't drink. It isn't them being stupid or not wanting to change. It's them not wanting to hurt.
From the outside looking in it's easy to say "Well, just stop for like 2 weeks and the rest of your life is better!" but from the inside, you don't feel like you've got a choice. You feel hopeless. You feel constricted.
That is why something like this is a fucking miracle on every level. Even if it's not the true cure, it's a big step. Bravo to science.
Probably one of the best posts I've seen in this forum.
If magic pill addiction replaces alcohol addiction then that's a good trade until a final solution is developed.
I'm amazed how many people have posted in this thread who know absolutely nothing about medicine, alcoholism, or the human body in general. Not a single one of those people posting one-liner, generic, uneducated responses have any sources to back them. I sincerely doubt the majority of you have the training and education necessary to make such statements.
Thank you, Chargelot, for being one of the few intelligent posters in the thread. There were a few others, of course, but the majority (raja91, R0YAL, urasheep (at least you are sensible enough to admit your ignorance on the subject, and I commend you for that), etc.) are clueless.
On July 16 2011 11:01 SirazTV wrote: I actually heard this guy on NPR a few weeks back and basically it is replacing one drug with another. I really don't see this being all that useful.
Hey, as long as this drug doesn't lead to car accidents, bar fights, and domestic violence, I'd call it an improvement.
B.S. Suboxone is a "miracle" opiate / dope addict device. Doctors and studies said it had no side effects and it was non addictive but guess what, it is.
EPT
