EPTAlso, people need to read the full article first o.o
"Sexsomniac" cleared of rape charge - Page 19
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Please stop posting that he shouldn't have invited her into his bed since that's apparently not what happened... read the OP and links BEFORE commenting. | ||
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Abenson
Canada4122 Posts
Also, people need to read the full article first o.o | ||
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EtohEtoh
Canada669 Posts
On July 06 2011 21:49 Detwiler wrote: Sleep walking aside, sexsomnia aside. I just believe there are crimes you dont just get to walk away from namely rape and murder. You rape some one you cant just say sad day for you i have a condition. For murder you have negligent homocide. I dont suppose theres anything like that for rape but if this happens there should be. Some crimes are so serious that it doesnt matter if you mean to do it or not if you did you get punished. I think rape falls in that catagory just my opinion. On the plus side jinro responded to me <3 Jinro gl in all your matches =D people have been found not guilty for killing other people in their sleep. Homicidal sleepwalking is quite rare but it does happen. And due to it's rarity not many people are sure what to do about it, some have been found guilty some not guilty. | ||
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MozzarellaL
United States822 Posts
On July 06 2011 22:12 Detwiler wrote: Heres a better one then. Im prone to randomly falling alseep. Diagonsed by a doctor its legit. Knowning this i decide to drive anyways. I fall asleep crash and kill sumbody. Am I at fault? Yes. Why? Because I should have known better than to be driving. Of course you are at fault. However, you should be tried for manslaughter or negligent homicide, not murder. The man in this case was tried for rape, not a lesser sexual assault crime (and these do exist). Rape requires intentional penetration. Not 'negligent penetration', or 'reckless penetration'. The outcome was correct. | ||
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Detwiler
United States239 Posts
On July 06 2011 22:26 Traiel wrote: The negligence that occured was from the one that told her to share his bed That deffinately agrueable i just happen to not agree with it /shrug agree to disagree | ||
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Arunu
Netherlands111 Posts
I suggest you read my post. I did read the OP i she shouldnt have been in the house period. Not that he allowed her or knew she was in his bed. fair enough but what if he didnt knew he did this while he sleeps ? i know he did, the article mentions it , but i cant grasp the people saying it is rape. if you arent aware of it and only become aware of it when someone else mentions it to you after having seen you do it, the damage would have been done in his case. | ||
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Detwiler
United States239 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
- did anyone tell her to go into his bed (like Guardian says) - who invited her into his home? why did a teenage girl stay in an adults man's house? - who else was in the house that night? | ||
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Traiel
Australia10 Posts
On July 06 2011 22:26 Abenson wrote: Still, I think it's kind of weird - I would prefer a small, not big like 10 year prison sentences, but something instead of nothing. Also, people need to read the full article first o.o Something would imply he was guilty, as has been said before rape is intentional penetration. So if it wasn't rape, what would you charge him for? By your definition, because the condition is 'weird', he deserves to be punished, but only a little? ok..... Again, someone should be punished.. the stupid fool that told her to go to his bed... that has to be a criminally negligent action. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8306 Posts
On July 06 2011 21:30 Figgy wrote: It was not a crime, and it IS a legit disease. He did not invite her into his bedroom. As someone who has had sex with his significant other in his sleep and had no recollection of it at all several times, I can tell you this is very real and not controllable. It's also very obvious to the partner that you are actually still asleep. I've also been known to walk over to my alarm that is in another room, turn it off, and lie back down in my sleep without waking up, completely unaware I've ever done it. To the point I have an alarm that takes several buttons to press so I'll wake up from it, and even then when my body gets used to it I have to hide it somewhere different. IT IS NOT RAPE. He did not want to have sex with the girl, he had no motive or rational thought towards it happening. He also was not concious! It's the same as having a dream you don't remember. You can't help or control the dream, and you have no fucking clue what happened in that dream when you wake up. She was the one who climbed into bed with him. He was not guilty in any way, shape or form. I understand what you're saying, but lets be clear. It IS rape. You can rape a girl without having any rational thought towards it. If you were 40 years old and lets say blackout drunk, and therefore had no control over your thoughts, don't remember what happened in the morning or why you did it, but had sex with a 16 year old (given age of consent laws) it WOULD be considered statutory rape, and if you were blackout drunk and had sex with a girl without her consent even if she was of age it would still be rape. If the definition of rape changes in some peoples minds to "oh well he didn't know he was having sex with a girl so it's totally fine" then that's a dangerous road in my opinion. However, yes, it is a disease so the rest of what you say is logical. | ||
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Traiel
Australia10 Posts
On July 06 2011 22:31 TheDougler wrote: I understand what you're saying, but lets be clear. It IS rape. You can rape a girl without having any rational thought towards it. If you were 40 years old and lets say blackout drunk, and therefore had no control over your thoughts, don't remember what happened in the morning or why you did it, but had sex with a 16 year old (given age of consent laws) it WOULD be considered statutory rape, and if you were blackout drunk and had sex with a girl without her consent even if she was of age it would still be rape. If the definition of rape changes in some peoples minds to "oh well he didn't know he was having sex with a girl so it's totally fine" then that's a dangerous road in my opinion. However, yes, it is a disease so the rest of what you say is logical. If you are blackout drunk, you are still conscious.. your decision making is impaired, but you are sitll responsible. If you are asleep, then you are not conscious, and you arent making decisions. When you are drunk, it is intentional, when you are asleep, it cannot possibly be intentional. This is obviously the case, because he was declared innocent, so it cannot possibly be rape | ||
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Sakenator
United States45 Posts
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
On July 06 2011 22:23 Detwiler wrote: I suggest you read my post. I did read the OP i she shouldnt have been in the house period. Not that he allowed her or knew she was in his bed. I don't see where it's said that he allowed her to be in the house. We don't know the reason why she was there so you can't assume that he wanted that to happen. Also, I don't see why the girl shouldn't be in the house. Apparently this guy doesn't wander in the house and ''rapes'' everyone who is in his way so as long as you are not in the same bed(or room?) you are not in danger of anything. The only person to blame is the one that told the girl to sleep in the same bed as him. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On July 06 2011 22:29 Fenrax wrote: I would still love if someone who has better information (maybe from the UK) could clear up some things: - did anyone tell her to go into his bed (like Guardian says) - who invited her into his home? why did a teenage girl stay in an adults man's house? - who else was in the house that night? Additionally: why does a teenage girl who gets into another men's bed NOT wake the men to tell him "hi, I'm sleeping right next to you, btw" I mean, if I was 40 I would be really freaked out if I woke up in the morning and finding a 16 (!) year old lying next to me. | ||
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Shamrock_
South Africa276 Posts
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Detwiler
United States239 Posts
On July 06 2011 22:18 Traiel wrote: That statement might be justified if he had previously wandered into other people's beds, but there is no indication of that... from the looks of things the previous incidents all occurred in his own bed (shared with his partner at the time)... as such, try putting your blame on the person who told her to get into his bed. She also isn't a 'little girl' shes 2 years (Aus) from being an adult, so I find it a bit strange that she willingly shared his bed anyway :S Messed up situation Dude i dont know how old you are but im 26. 16 is a little girl to me and any other grown man. | ||
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lolsixtynine
United States600 Posts
rape (n.) the compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse. It's not disputable that it was rape. The dispute is whether the rape was a crime, and as others have posted under the voluntariness part of actus reus this cannot be considered a crime. It's not an apt metaphor to talk about driving a car when you know you have narcolepsy. It's like you fell asleep randomly in the passenger seat, and then the driver hopped into the backseat and put you in the driver's seat. | ||
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levarien11111
United States61 Posts
On July 06 2011 22:39 Detwiler wrote: Dude i dont know how old you are but im 26. 16 is a little girl to me and any other grown man. umm want to make something clear 16 is not a little girl regardless of what you may think she is a teenager and a growing woman not a little girl please be smart and think these things out before posting things age is not an issue here it could have been a 34 year old woman that went into his bed and this same thing could of happen | ||
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oursblanc
Canada1450 Posts
On July 06 2011 22:38 Shamrock_ wrote: Surely if he is that unstable/insane, enough to have sex with a woman and not realize it, he's a burden and liability to society anyway and shouldn't be let free? Congratulations on the most terrifying post in a thread full of winners. | ||
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
On July 06 2011 22:44 levarien11111 wrote: umm want to make something clear 16 is not a little girl regardless of what you may think she is a teenager and a growing woman not a little girl please be smart and think these things out before posting things age is not an issue here it could have been a 34 year old woman that went into his bed and this same thing could of happen EDIT: actually he said any other grown man, disregard. | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
Also can the OP please be amended. The statement 'The rape itself happened and was not denied' is essentially a misstatement of the law. From what we know, it appears that it is not disputed that sexual intercourse occurred without consent. But rape is NOT as simple having sex without consent. Under section 1(1) the Sexual Offences Act 2007 (UK), which is the relevant legislation, rape is defined as: (1) A person (A) commits an offence if– (a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis, (b) B does not consent to the penetration, and (c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents. If we assume that the man was indeed asleep (something that I do not propose to reject or accept because I do not propose to know the evidence heard in court) then he could not have possibly had the relevant state of mind of intentionally penetrating the girl. Therefore, this is not about a man who has not denied that he has committed a rape and who was then found not guilty. It is not admitted in anyway between the man and the prosecution that he did commit rape, because he did not admit to intentionally penetrating the girl. In fact, whether he committed rape is the very thing in dispute. If it were not in dispute then there would not have been a jury trial for the purposes of determining guilt, and he would have pleaded guilty. To couch the discussion in the OP as if he did not deny that he commited rape, and then go "oh but he was cleared of the charge anyway because of sexsomnia" is a misrepresentation of the issues, and should be fixed. | ||
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