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Please stop posting that he shouldn't have invited her into his bed since that's apparently not what happened... read the OP and links BEFORE commenting. |
On July 06 2011 11:33 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 11:04 Supamang wrote:On July 06 2011 10:54 nikj wrote:On July 06 2011 10:12 sunprince wrote:On July 06 2011 10:06 Healingpr00f wrote:
I feel like this is really dumb. I dont think you can rape someone and then blame it on a some illness. If i murder someone and then say "oh.. er... i dont remember anything. also, i have murdermania" and my relatives says i often murder people without remembering, should I go free then? He should have the EXACT same punishment as anyone else raping a 16year old girl. I feel like you are really dumb, or at least incapable of reading comprehension. The guy in question has a confirmed medical illness that is impossible to control and does not ordinarily cause any problems. At most he should be required to share a bed only with intimate partners and never with underage children. If by contrast you killed someone in your sleep, you would also be found not guilty, but it is likely that the court would require you to obtain treatment and take other preventative measures to avoid a recurrence in the future. And that's only if you actually had some sort of condition; it's virtually impossible to fool medical professionals who would monitor your brain wave activity in a sleep clinic to check for it. His first post on Tl was that? Gotta be a troll or just plain dumb. Wow, twice in one fucking thread. This is starting to piss me off enough that I dont want to retype a response. Instead, Im just gonna quote myself from 1 fucking page ago On July 06 2011 09:26 Supamang wrote:
I dont care about the discussion you guys are having too much, but I hate it when people just spew out "TROLL?!?" any time someone disagrees with them. Im used to seeing this kind of ad hominem argumentative style go on in 90% of internet forums out there, but Im pretty disappointed to find people jumping to the "UR A TROLL" argument on teamliquid This guy sunprince made perfectly logical statements. You fucking just jump straight to "UR A TROLL." stop being a fucking hypocrite If you would stop your rage and actually read: Nikj agreed with Sunprince. Nikj calls Healingpr00f a troll or just plain stupid. Nikj does so (I guess) due to the below explained reason: What Healingpr00f wrote has been said like 10 times before in this thread, the first times people actually responded properly to it, but by now it is getting so blatant that people jump to the logical conclusion that 1) he didn't bother reading neither the OP and the articles nor the thread or 2) that he is in fact trolling... Due to the white box at the top of this thread, option 2 actually seems the most logical of the 2 options.
Fair enough, my mistake. I didnt check their post counts or expand the spoiler
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This girl was ill. Anyone else think that if this man had good intentions for her health then they should not have been sharing the bedroom. Why would he let anyone who is sick sleep in the same bed, it cannot be better for their recovery. Why wouldn't he sleep in the guest bedroom or on the couch? Letting her take the bedroom by herself would have been the rational choice for a person looking to help an ill person recover. He seems like a predator whose intentions seem very unclear.
User was warned for this post
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On July 06 2011 11:40 GhoSt[shield] wrote:
This girl was ill. Anyone else think that if this man had good intentions for her health then they should not have been sharing the bedroom. Why would he let anyone who is sick sleep in the same bed, it cannot be better for their recovery. Why wouldn't he sleep in the guest bedroom or on the couch? Letting her take the bedroom by herself would have been the rational choice for a person looking to help an ill person recover. He seems like a predator whose intentions seem very unclear.
Read before post. It is even on the top in a white box.
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On July 06 2011 10:52 Zedromas wrote:
Go look at a picture of this 43 yr old sleep rapist (Or whatever u wanna call him) and you'll see for yourself how big of a douche bag he is. He looks like the guy at the park that you tell your kids to stay away from.
Yes. Surely the most important thing is what someone looks like. This is why whe should abolish having courts and juries for the fairest criminal system ever. If someone is accused of a crime, you simply have a trained faceologist look at him, and determine whether or not he looks strange. Also think about how much money the state could save by this! Do you have any idea how much a court process costs? You would not even have to pay the faceologist, one could make a system where he simply gets tips from both the prosecuting party and the defendant.
The whole thing also works in civil court, too. Just look at who of both parties looks better, and have them win the case. Also, this opens a whole new area of work for models in representing large companies in front of the faceologist.
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can't help but feel like this should be treated the same way as people with deadly/serious diseases, it's your own responsibility to make sure nobody else gets subjected to it. Unless he expressly said that she should stay the hell away from him when sleeping he is as guilty as can be. (In my eyes, not in the eyes of ze law)
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On July 06 2011 11:56 Hynda wrote:
can't help but feel like this should be treated the same way as people with deadly/serious diseases, it's your own responsibility to make sure nobody else gets subjected to it. Unless he expressly said that she should stay the hell away from him when sleeping he is as guilty as can be. (In my eyes, not in the eyes of ze law)
So if someone has some serious disease (e.g. Ebola) and someone climbs into bed with them while they are asleep ( yes this is extreme, replace ebola with whatever deadly disease you like), we must charge them with murder if they managed to survive. Even though they had no part in the action putting the person in danger. This is outrageous should we punish anyone with a dangerous disease sleeping in his/her own bed because someone may climb into bed with them while they are sleeping (He did not tell her too).
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It really shouldn't be called "Sexomnia." Sexomnia is more than likely a mix of the words "sex" and "insomnia," which implies that either he cannot sleep until he has sex, or cannot have sex till he's asleep. The name really should be something more along the lines of "sleepsexing" or "unconciousgropingandorviolatingsomeoneandhavingnomemoryofwhathappenedalledgedly."
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On July 06 2011 12:11 insetdynamic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 11:56 Hynda wrote:
can't help but feel like this should be treated the same way as people with deadly/serious diseases, it's your own responsibility to make sure nobody else gets subjected to it. Unless he expressly said that she should stay the hell away from him when sleeping he is as guilty as can be. (In my eyes, not in the eyes of ze law) So if someone has some serious disease (e.g. Ebola) and someone climbs into bed with them while they are asleep ( yes this is extreme, replace ebola with whatever deadly disease you like), we must charge them with murder if they managed to survive. Even though they had no part in the action putting the person in danger. This is outrageous should we punish anyone with a dangerous disease sleeping in his/her own bed because someone may climb into bed with them while they are sleeping (He did not tell her too).
I'm pretty sure Hynda refers to the rules surrounding someone with HIV. It is punishable by law to have unprotected sex when you suffer from HIV, unless you tell your partner about it. And the punishment isn't just some slap on the wrist, it is prisontime, and IIRC (I'm a bit hazy on this part) punishable to the same degree as manslaughter.
I know there has been talk about abolishing this law as HIV is no longer a deathsentence, and tbh I think that in this case, the "disease" (I would rather go with condition as it is hard to really call it a disease in the traditional sense) is severe enough, nor holds severe enough ramifications to actually warrant the stigma.
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On July 06 2011 12:16 ninjakingcola wrote:
It really shouldn't be called "Sexomnia." Sexomnia is more than likely a mix of the words "sex" and "insomnia," which implies that either he cannot sleep until he has sex, or cannot have sex till he's asleep. The name really should be something more along the lines of "sleepsexing" or "unconciousgropingandorviolatingsomeoneandhavingnomemoryofwhathappenedalledgedly."
It's mixing the word sex with the somnia part of insomnia. I'm not entirely sure but I would guess that 'somnia' means sleep or something similar. Putting the 'in' in front makes it mean an inability to sleep.
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On July 06 2011 12:20 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:11 insetdynamic wrote:On July 06 2011 11:56 Hynda wrote:
can't help but feel like this should be treated the same way as people with deadly/serious diseases, it's your own responsibility to make sure nobody else gets subjected to it. Unless he expressly said that she should stay the hell away from him when sleeping he is as guilty as can be. (In my eyes, not in the eyes of ze law) So if someone has some serious disease (e.g. Ebola) and someone climbs into bed with them while they are asleep ( yes this is extreme, replace ebola with whatever deadly disease you like), we must charge them with murder if they managed to survive. Even though they had no part in the action putting the person in danger. This is outrageous should we punish anyone with a dangerous disease sleeping in his/her own bed because someone may climb into bed with them while they are sleeping (He did not tell her too). I'm pretty sure Hynda refers to the rules surrounding someone with HIV. It is punishable by law to have unprotected sex when you suffer from HIV, unless you tell your partner about it. And the punishment isn't just some slap on the wrist, it is prisontime, and IIRC (I'm a bit hazy on this part) punishable to the same degree as manslaughter. I know there has been talk about abolishing this law as HIV is no longer a deathsentence, and tbh I think that in this case, the "disease" (I would rather go with condition as it is hard to really call it a disease in the traditional sense) is severe enough, nor holds severe enough ramifications to actually warrant the stigma.
I see your point. However, in regards to an HIV example the most comparable I can make this would be someone coming to you when you are seriously injured and bleeding and contracts the disease, but it is your fault you did not tell them even though you were unconscious due to lack of blood. That is as close a comparison as can be made I feel and is a terrible one at that. HIV is not really comparable to this disorder and if indeed that is what was being referred to is an extremely inaccurate analogy.
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Wow, a lot of people like to spill blood, don't they?
I wonder if the victim still gets compensation from the government. It makes sense that she would.
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On July 06 2011 12:29 TranceKuja wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 12:16 ninjakingcola wrote:
It really shouldn't be called "Sexomnia." Sexomnia is more than likely a mix of the words "sex" and "insomnia," which implies that either he cannot sleep until he has sex, or cannot have sex till he's asleep. The name really should be something more along the lines of "sleepsexing" or "unconciousgropingandorviolatingsomeoneandhavingnomemoryofwhathappenedalledgedly." It's mixing the word sex with the somnia part of insomnia. I'm not entirely sure but I would guess that 'somnia' means sleep or something similar. Putting the 'in' in front makes it mean an inability to sleep.
(According to Wikipedia)
Somnus is the name of a Roman god that was the personification of sleep, that's where words like somnambulance come from. So sexsomnia would literally mean "sleep sex," while insomnia means "not sleep" due to the in- prefix.
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Having sex and not remembering it is like not having sex at all  .
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On July 06 2011 10:52 Zedromas wrote:
Sex without consent is AT BEST a lesser crime? WTF are u smoking?? If this logic were true then every prison in the world would be empty.
Yes, it is a lesser crime. In some states, it is required that you forcibly commit the rape (if you don't use force, it's a lesser crime). In all states, it is required that you intend to have sexual intercourse with the victim, without his or her consent. This is why if you are mistaken to consent, it is a lesser crime. I don't know what the distinctions are over in England, but based on precedent set over 100 years ago, the intent of the defendant matters (husband convinced two drinking buddies to come home with him and fuck his wife by telling them that she enjoyed getting gangbanged by random people, the two guys were like "oh ok, if you say so, let's go do it". Obviously the woman had no desire to be gangbanged, all three were charged with rape, and the other two guys' rape conviction was overturned because they lacked the requisite intent to rape).
Go look at a picture of this 43 yr old sleep rapist (Or whatever u wanna call him) and you'll see for yourself how big of a douche bag he is. He looks like the guy at the park that you tell your kids to stay away from.
Yea, but I also don't make wild assumptions on people just based on appearances. It's fine that you outed yourself as someone who does, I won't judge you.
Someone, PLEASE, explain to me why so many people on TL are jumping to this slime bucket's defense? I've read many posts (Like Jinro's) proclaiming that sleep-walking is some sort of terrible affliction that deserves some sort of exception in the law.
I'm not jumping to his defense.
He fucked a 16 year old girl without her consent. I don't care if he was sleepwalking, drunk, high on mescaline or heroin, half-concious, semi-concious; this guy needs to be punished, and severely.
Age of consent be damned........that debate will rage on for another 150 years.
As I was saying, if they charged him with the lesser crime of say, sexual assault, he would have probably been found guilty. Rape? No. he did not intend to rape her, there is no way he should be found guilty of rape. Just look at the UK statute on rape:
(1) A person (A) commits [rape] if—
(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
You have failed to explain why someone who goes around intentionally raping women because he enjoys it should be treated the same as some college student who mistakenly (but reasonably) believed the woman wanted to have sex, and until you do, your opinion is worthless to me and does not warrant further discussion.
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On July 06 2011 12:16 ninjakingcola wrote:
It really shouldn't be called "Sexomnia." Sexomnia is more than likely a mix of the words "sex" and "insomnia," which implies that either he cannot sleep until he has sex, or cannot have sex till he's asleep. The name really should be something more along the lines of "sleepsexing" or "unconciousgropingandorviolatingsomeoneandhavingnomemoryofwhathappenedalledgedly."
It isn't officially called sexomnia I believe, but this guy apparently coined the term at some time during his medical career. Here is the except about it from the Canadian Case where he provided medical expert evidence in a sexomnia case.
Link:http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2005/2005oncj294/2005oncj294.html
[10] Dr. Shapiro was qualified on consent as an expert in the fields of psychiatry, psychopharmacology, sleep disorders, including parasomnia and automatism, and the forensic implications of the same. Dr. Shapiro is a recognized international authority in the area of sleep disorders and has lectured and published extensively in the field as evidenced by his extensive curriculum vitae. Dr. Shapiro defined parasomnia as being classified into four types of sleep disorders. In his simplified version, he characterized those classifications as people who sleep too much, people who sleep too little, people who sleep at the wrong time, and, finally, things that go bump in the night. This latter category includes parasomnia. He defined this latter category as unexplained sudden arousals from sleep, where people are not aware of what they are doing. They act in ways that would not make sense otherwise. He pointed out that this group of disorders is more common among children than adults. Fourteen or 15 per cent of children might have experiences of parasomnia but it is widely thought to be about three per cent in adults. By and large, these sudden arousals arise in the deepest part of the sleep cycle. He described characteristics that might “span the range of abrupt arousals from deep sleep to talking in sleep, to getting out of bed, to walking, to actual eating while asleep and having sexual intercourse without being aware of it. In a few reported cases, there has been the actual driving of a motor vehicle while the person is asleep.
[11] During an event of parasomnia, the individual is not conscious of what they are doing. He characterizes this as being without logic or without reason. The phenomenon of sleepwalking is also referred to as somnambulism. Dr. Shapiro himself has coined the term “sexsomnia” to describe the occurrence of sexual behaviour during sleep, which arises while a person is in a parasomnic state.
[12] He went on to describe what he called the “architecture of sleep”. This consists of components of light sleep initially, then intermediate sleep and followed by deep sleep. In each of these cycles, the duration of dream time (R.E.M., or rapid eye movement) gets longer and longer. Parasomnic activity more often occurs during deep sleep. Parasomniacs have abrupt arousals from deep sleep, which nobody else has. There is a very distinctive change in the brainwave pattern from deep sleep to abrupt arousal, which is the one thing in his opinion that nobody can fake. The technology used to measure these changing brain waves is called polysomnography. The patient is hooked up to electrodes around the eyes and the chin. Measurements are also made of breathing and oxygen levels. Brainwaves are measured and recorded during deep sleep. This technology has been useful in distinguishing between false and legitimate parasomnia claimants, according to the evidence of Dr. Shapiro.
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On July 06 2011 09:55 Eleaven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 09:42 TheDougler wrote:
If I may say so I do believe that Leprollo has been the more polite one in this conversation although neither of you could be called "reasonable" as neither of you have been able to be reasoned with.
Leprollo has one opinion, Eleaven has another. Neither of you are going to be able to convince the other to change your opinions.
Also yeah... I think the whole issue is pretty fucked but if the guy has a disease then he has a disease. It's a horrible set of circumstances. His style was admittedly much more subtle and subversive, but don't mistake it for politeness. anyway, bridge under the water, he apologised over PM, and i graciously accepted 
For the record, Eleaven, I did no such thing.
Eleavan did, however, continue to insult me in his fashion via our PM discussion.
I did agree to drop it, but I see he's come back to the thread to make erroneous claims.
Why would I ever apologize to someone who called me a mentally-unstable christian-conservative troll, just because I have an opinion on the simple matter of what is the appropriate consenting age?
I did offer to apologize for him for calling him a "cradle robber", at one point, but that was all I apologized for. He likewise apologized for nothing and continued to assert that I was a horrible person.
Nice guy. And that's why I come here: to make friends.
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Who thought it was a good idea for a SICK 16yo girl to sleep in close proximity to another person? Especially a 43yo man suffering from "sexsomnia". IMO that person should be convicted. Even if he didn't (accidentally?) rape her, she could've spread her illness to him.
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The problem with most people posting on cases like these is they let their preconceived emotions dictate whether they feel the person is guilty or not. The man had evidence proving his condition including a legitimate doctor and his previous partners. This ruling seems completely legitimate to me.
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On July 06 2011 13:46 Malarkey817 wrote:
Who thought it was a good idea for a SICK 16yo girl to sleep in close proximity to another person? Especially a 43yo man suffering from "sexsomnia". IMO that person should be convicted. Even if he didn't (accidentally?) rape her, she could've spread her illness to him.
Hahaha, this is my favorite post so far. So you're saying that because she was sick, and could have spread her illness (you obviously gotta read between the lines to know its contagious), the guy whose bed she hopped into should be convicted of rape because her sickness might have spread to him?
Or are you saying she should be convicted? Perhaps for raping his immune system?
Or some mystery 3rd person setting the stage for her being raped, and for facilitating the spreading of disease?
Nice.
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I dont know if its totally fair that people can get off of a huge crime when they claim they have a disease. If lawyers know a killer is guilty, they will probably ask them if they have any mental problems or disorders. No matter what disease he has, he still took lives that cant be replaced.
Its the same thing here. Also, if you claim and know you have sexsomnia, then dont invite a 16 year old girl over even if you have no bad intentions. He should be guilty.
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On July 06 2011 13:58 chaopow wrote:
I dont know if its totally fair that people can get off of a huge crime when they claim they have a disease. If lawyers know a killer is guilty, they will probably ask them if they have any mental problems or disorders. No matter what disease he has, he still took lives that cant be replaced.
Its the same thing here. Also, if you claim and know you have sexsomnia, then dont invite a 16 year old girl over even if you have no bad intentions. He should be guilty.
Since I don't get tired of saying it: he didn't invite a 16 year old over. She was put into his bed without his knowledge.
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EPT
