|
Please stop posting that he shouldn't have invited her into his bed since that's apparently not what happened... read the OP and links BEFORE commenting. |
On July 06 2011 13:58 chaopow wrote:
I dont know if its totally fair that people can get off of a huge crime when they claim they have a disease. If lawyers know a killer is guilty, they will probably ask them if they have any mental problems or disorders. No matter what disease he has, he still took lives that cant be replaced.
Its the same thing here. Also, if you claim and know you have sexsomnia, then dont invite a 16 year old girl over even if you have no bad intentions. He should be guilty.
Blame how the law is written if you have such a problem with it. You cannot be asleep and say that you intentionally did anything. To be convicted of rape, the law requires intentional penetration of the mouth, vagina, or anus, by the defendant's penis.
FYI insanity or any kind of mental disorder is not a defense to murder, or rape. You will still be sentenced. You will remitted into custody of a mental hospital for the criminally insane, where you will serve your sentence as if you were not insane, until such time as your sentence is up, or you have been deemed cured. The idea that you can claim insanity and get off scot free is a LIE perpetuated by the media.
|
long time lurker but never posted, just had to register for this since a lot of the posts in this thread are really irky.
My GF occasionally says in the morning i do this too, not actual sex, more groping.
How do you propose i stop this, she says im more prone to doing it if i have been drinking heavily.
i do not recall any of it at all.
that guy cant help it just as you cant help it when you sleep walk or sleep eat or talk.
|
On July 06 2011 21:21 Arunu wrote:
long time lurker but never posted, just had to register for this since a lot of the posts in this thread are really irky.
My GF occasionally says in the morning i do this too, not actual sex, more groping.
How do you propose i stop this, she says im more prone to doing it if i have been drinking heavily.
i do not recall any of it at all.
that guy cant help it just as you cant help it when you sleep walk or sleep eat or talk.
Groping is pretty easy, just means moving your hand a bit generally. Rape on the other hand requires one to remove both parties pants and putting ya dick in.
|
On July 06 2011 13:58 chaopow wrote:
I dont know if its totally fair that people can get off of a huge crime when they claim they have a disease. If lawyers know a killer is guilty, they will probably ask them if they have any mental problems or disorders. No matter what disease he has, he still took lives that cant be replaced.
Its the same thing here. Also, if you claim and know you have sexsomnia, then dont invite a 16 year old girl over even if you have no bad intentions. He should be guilty.
It was not a crime, and it IS a legit disease.
He did not invite her into his bedroom.
As someone who has had sex with his significant other in his sleep and had no recollection of it at all several times, I can tell you this is very real and not controllable. It's also very obvious to the partner that you are actually still asleep. I've also been known to walk over to my alarm that is in another room, turn it off, and lie back down in my sleep without waking up, completely unaware I've ever done it. To the point I have an alarm that takes several buttons to press so I'll wake up from it, and even then when my body gets used to it I have to hide it somewhere different.
IT IS NOT RAPE. He did not want to have sex with the girl, he had no motive or rational thought towards it happening. He also was not concious! It's the same as having a dream you don't remember. You can't help or control the dream, and you have no fucking clue what happened in that dream when you wake up.
She was the one who climbed into bed with him. He was not guilty in any way, shape or form.
|
On July 06 2011 21:25 Phenny wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 21:21 Arunu wrote:
long time lurker but never posted, just had to register for this since a lot of the posts in this thread are really irky.
My GF occasionally says in the morning i do this too, not actual sex, more groping.
How do you propose i stop this, she says im more prone to doing it if i have been drinking heavily.
i do not recall any of it at all.
that guy cant help it just as you cant help it when you sleep walk or sleep eat or talk.
Groping is pretty easy, just means moving your hand a bit generally. Rape on the other hand requires one to remove both parties pants and putting ya dick in.
I can tell you think you're making a good point, but you're not.
I have a history of activity while sleeping. I go sleep walking a lot - get up, walk up and down stairs, stand in the living room yelling, announce to my wife that "there's a monkey in the room!", even engage in sex - all without waking up. It's absolutely possible to engage in complex activities without being conscious.
|
On July 06 2011 01:32 EternaLEnVy wrote:
Ridiculous how he can get away with this. If he knew about his condition and so did his family members they should have never let her stay in her house. Sure you may not want to tell people, but just make a poor excuse to keep her safe from your house.
Totally agree.... strange case
|
On July 06 2011 14:03 MozzarellaL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 13:58 chaopow wrote:
I dont know if its totally fair that people can get off of a huge crime when they claim they have a disease. If lawyers know a killer is guilty, they will probably ask them if they have any mental problems or disorders. No matter what disease he has, he still took lives that cant be replaced.
Its the same thing here. Also, if you claim and know you have sexsomnia, then dont invite a 16 year old girl over even if you have no bad intentions. He should be guilty. Blame how the law is written if you have such a problem with it. You cannot be asleep and say that you intentionally did anything. To be convicted of rape, the law requires intentional penetration of the mouth, vagina, or anus, by the defendant's penis. FYI insanity or any kind of mental disorder is not a defense to murder, or rape. You will still be sentenced. You will remitted into custody of a mental hospital for the criminally insane, where you will serve your sentence as if you were not insane, until such time as your sentence is up, or you have been deemed cured. The idea that you can claim insanity and get off scot free is a LIE perpetuated by the media.
+1, If one was proven to be a danger to society though commiting criminal activity then one pays ones debts to society, either through financial restitution or in more serious cases, by removal from society for a time to be "rehabilitated" and learn the error of their ways, and also through working for the community (and nothing else) via prison work gangs (road gangs, licence plate manufacture etc).
If one can satisfy the court that one had no concious control over ones actions and "couldnt help it" that they commited the crime, then one cannot be considered a safe member of society and should be therefore removed for the safety of themselves and others. They should remain locked "safely away" until such time as they can be proven (by a mental physician) to be safe to re-enter society again.
IMO the criminally insane should NEVER be released until they have a mental physicians clearance as if released without said clearance they are a high threat of re-offending (and therefore causing further damage to society).
To take it even further...
If one is considered to be criminally insane to such a degree that he cannot be cured and it is unlikely there will ever be a cure in his lifetime AND the nature of his insanity is to put others at serious risk of life, then the insane person should be (humanely) put down, the same as serial offenders of serious crime are dealt with (after all, why should the state continue to care and feed a person who will have no value whatsoever to society and will only ever be a burden.
If his insanity doesnt cause serious risk to life, then other perminant means are needed to ensure the threat is removed (chemical castration is one means to curb serial rapists who "just cant help themselves")
|
On July 06 2011 21:30 Figgy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 13:58 chaopow wrote:
I dont know if its totally fair that people can get off of a huge crime when they claim they have a disease. If lawyers know a killer is guilty, they will probably ask them if they have any mental problems or disorders. No matter what disease he has, he still took lives that cant be replaced.
Its the same thing here. Also, if you claim and know you have sexsomnia, then dont invite a 16 year old girl over even if you have no bad intentions. He should be guilty. It was not a crime, and it IS a legit disease. He did not invite her into his bedroom. As someone who has had sex with his significant other in his sleep and had no recollection of it at all several times, I can tell you this is very real and not controllable. It's also very obvious to the partner that you are actually still asleep. I've also been known to walk over to my alarm that is in another room, turn it off, and lie back down in my sleep without waking up, completely unaware I've ever done it. To the point I have an alarm that takes several buttons to press so I'll wake up from it, and even then when my body gets used to it I have to hide it somewhere different. IT IS NOT RAPE. He did not want to have sex with the girl, he had no motive or rational thought towards it happening. He also was not concious! It's the same as having a dream you don't remember. You can't help or control the dream, and you have no fucking clue what happened in that dream when you wake up. She was the one who climbed into bed with him. He was not guilty in any way, shape or form.
It may not have been rape, but his actions (caused by his illness) still caused damage to society and may therefore do so again unless treated. So technically, yeah, he was charged with the wrong crime and was not be found guilty of rape per se, but should still be charged with sexual assault with the sentance being manditory therapy or drug treatment to ensure he cannot reoffend. (Plus if he is aware of his "condition" he should disclose it to all parties it MAY effect, roommates, & other female houseguest just on the "off chance" they sleep over and his nocturnal movements are set to "frisky". I dont care how "uncomfortable" this may make him)
Plus the victim is still entitled to civil damages regardles of any criminal outcome.
|
On July 06 2011 02:39 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 23:30 Detwiler wrote:
im sorry im just not buyin it. they said rape now im pretty sure that requires penetration which means hes has to get her clothes off then get in her. she obviously is going to fight and make a bunch of noise and in all this he doesnt wake up.wife dont wake up either? oh and he has no memory of it? im just calling bullshit on this. i will take the rapist for 1000 please. OK, you dont know shit about sleep walking apparently. At MLG Dallas, I got up, bitchslapped hot_bid and went back to bed. Gon (one of the oGs coaches) told me he tried to wake me when I was sleep talking/nightmare/moving around etc once, and that didnt work. So he tried shaking me, that didnt work. So he tried slapping me, that didnt work. He told me this as an apology and I laughed and was like "LOL, I remember 0 of this". You can still function when sleepwalking, you just arent actually aware of any of it.
Sleep walking aside, sexsomnia aside. I just believe there are crimes you dont just get to walk away from namely rape and murder. You rape some one you cant just say sad day for you i have a condition. For murder you have negligent homocide. I dont suppose theres anything like that for rape but if this happens there should be. Some crimes are so serious that it doesnt matter if you mean to do it or not if you did you get punished. I think rape falls in that catagory just my opinion.
On the plus side jinro responded to me <3 Jinro gl in all your matches =D
|
in cases where memory of the sexual act is not retained, the detection of used condoms and semen stains on the bed the morning after the sexual incident are signs of the affliction.
OK.. that was a quote from the wiki linked earlier on this post..... detection of used condoms? Amazing that while still asleep they can have the presence of mind to suit up!
And its been said before, but the wrongness is in 2 parts: 1. that a 16 year old is willing to share the bed of an old man - sexsomnia or not, and 2. that she was told to do so. If either of those 2 hadn't happened, then the whole situation wouldnt have happened.
|
Let me make an analogy,
Say I have a compulsion to drink (an alcoholic) and when I am drunk, my judgement is impared to the point where I quite happily drive my car.
If I am aware of this predeliction to DUI and then run someone over, am I not responsible for the injury my drunken actions caused ?
Should I keep a car if I KNOW I am prone to picking uo the keys and driving it when drunk (and cant help but get drunk often)?
Even if I "manage" my problem and ensure I have no access to a personal vehicle while drunk due to fitting an inhibitor to my vehicle, should it not also be my responsibility to warn guests (while I am sober) to not leave their car keys lying around "just in case"?
|
That analogy doesnt fit...
Yours occurs because of an action that you know will lead to you driving. - i.e you are responsible for your conscious actions
His occurs because of something that happens in his sleep, which he didn't provoke in anyway - it was someone else that created the situation by telling her to get into bed with him.
A better analogy would be... i know you get drunk, and then drive your car, so I spike your orange juice, and leave the keys to your car in front of you.... I also round up the person, tie them to the ground so that you will be certain to run them over.
... i.e put the blame and responsibility where it belongs... on the fool that told her to get into bed with him.
Though, since they can put interlockers in the car so u have to breath test to allow the car to start, maybe he could wear a chastity belt at night 
|
On July 06 2011 21:45 ShatterStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 21:30 Figgy wrote:On July 06 2011 13:58 chaopow wrote:
I dont know if its totally fair that people can get off of a huge crime when they claim they have a disease. If lawyers know a killer is guilty, they will probably ask them if they have any mental problems or disorders. No matter what disease he has, he still took lives that cant be replaced.
Its the same thing here. Also, if you claim and know you have sexsomnia, then dont invite a 16 year old girl over even if you have no bad intentions. He should be guilty. It was not a crime, and it IS a legit disease. He did not invite her into his bedroom. As someone who has had sex with his significant other in his sleep and had no recollection of it at all several times, I can tell you this is very real and not controllable. It's also very obvious to the partner that you are actually still asleep. I've also been known to walk over to my alarm that is in another room, turn it off, and lie back down in my sleep without waking up, completely unaware I've ever done it. To the point I have an alarm that takes several buttons to press so I'll wake up from it, and even then when my body gets used to it I have to hide it somewhere different. IT IS NOT RAPE. He did not want to have sex with the girl, he had no motive or rational thought towards it happening. He also was not concious! It's the same as having a dream you don't remember. You can't help or control the dream, and you have no fucking clue what happened in that dream when you wake up. She was the one who climbed into bed with him. He was not guilty in any way, shape or form. It may not have been rape, but his actions (caused by his illness) still caused damage to society and may therefore do so again unless treated. So technically, yeah, he was charged with the wrong crime and was not be found guilty of rape per se, but should still be charged with sexual assault with the sentance being manditory therapy or drug treatment to ensure he cannot reoffend. (Plus if he is aware of his "condition" he should disclose it to all parties it MAY effect, roommates, & other female houseguest just on the "off chance" they sleep over and his nocturnal movements are set to "frisky". I dont care how "uncomfortable" this may make him) Plus the victim is still entitled to civil damages regardles of any criminal outcome.
problem with that is it deals with the brain
and as far as i am concerned it is untreatable
this is not something so simple as a disease
it is a disorder in the genes that cause this to happen as well as brain activity
if there was a way to stop it then i suppose you have a point but i would definitely not be a test subject for any sort of testing when i have a very rare disorder that just so happened to be a problem on a night when a person snuck into my bed without my permission or knowledge while i was asleep
please stop thinking he committed a crime when he didn't and was just an unfortunate event
|
On July 06 2011 21:53 ShatterStorm wrote:
Let me make an analogy,
Say I have a compulsion to drink (an alcoholic) and when I am drunk, my judgement is impared to the point where I quite happily drive my car.
If I am aware of this predeliction to DUI and then run someone over, am I not responsible for the injury my drunken actions caused ?
Should I keep a car if I KNOW I am prone to picking uo the keys and driving it when drunk (and cant help but get drunk often)?
Even if I "manage" my problem and ensure I have no access to a personal vehicle while drunk due to fitting an inhibitor to my vehicle, should it not also be my responsibility to warn guests (while I am sober) to not leave their car keys lying around "just in case"?
You can choose not to drink. If you can't then you need rehab. Problem solved
What do you suggest for him, that he chooses not to sleep? Poor analogy.
|
Since sleep apnea can possibly cause it, maybe if ppl with that condition slept with an oxygen mask and have a deep sleep without the problem of not breathing for a while to wake them up constantly through the night, sexsomnia might be cured!
|
On July 06 2011 22:08 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 21:53 ShatterStorm wrote:
Let me make an analogy,
Say I have a compulsion to drink (an alcoholic) and when I am drunk, my judgement is impared to the point where I quite happily drive my car.
If I am aware of this predeliction to DUI and then run someone over, am I not responsible for the injury my drunken actions caused ?
Should I keep a car if I KNOW I am prone to picking uo the keys and driving it when drunk (and cant help but get drunk often)?
Even if I "manage" my problem and ensure I have no access to a personal vehicle while drunk due to fitting an inhibitor to my vehicle, should it not also be my responsibility to warn guests (while I am sober) to not leave their car keys lying around "just in case"? You can choose not to drink. If you can't then you need rehab. Problem solved What do you suggest for him, that he chooses not to sleep? Poor analogy.
Heres a better one then. Im prone to randomly falling alseep. Diagonsed by a doctor its legit. Knowning this i decide to drive anyways. I fall asleep crash and kill sumbody. Am I at fault? Yes. Why? Because I should have known better than to be driving.
I suggest he doesnt let little girls stay in his house when its known hes prone to random acts of rape. The OP said 3 people testifed that hes does this that means it was known problem. As such he was negligant in allowing the girl to sleep in his house. He shouldnt have been allowed to just walk away from this.
|
On July 06 2011 22:12 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 22:08 sleepingdog wrote:On July 06 2011 21:53 ShatterStorm wrote:
Let me make an analogy,
Say I have a compulsion to drink (an alcoholic) and when I am drunk, my judgement is impared to the point where I quite happily drive my car.
If I am aware of this predeliction to DUI and then run someone over, am I not responsible for the injury my drunken actions caused ?
Should I keep a car if I KNOW I am prone to picking uo the keys and driving it when drunk (and cant help but get drunk often)?
Even if I "manage" my problem and ensure I have no access to a personal vehicle while drunk due to fitting an inhibitor to my vehicle, should it not also be my responsibility to warn guests (while I am sober) to not leave their car keys lying around "just in case"? You can choose not to drink. If you can't then you need rehab. Problem solved What do you suggest for him, that he chooses not to sleep? Poor analogy. I suggest he doesnt let little girls stay in his house when its known hes prone to random acts of rape. The OP said 3 people testifed that hes does this that means it was known problem. As such he was negligant in allowing the girl to sleep in his house. He shouldnt have been allowed to just walk away from this.
I suggest you read the little white box at the top of this thread
|
On July 06 2011 22:12 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 22:08 sleepingdog wrote:On July 06 2011 21:53 ShatterStorm wrote:
Let me make an analogy,
Say I have a compulsion to drink (an alcoholic) and when I am drunk, my judgement is impared to the point where I quite happily drive my car.
If I am aware of this predeliction to DUI and then run someone over, am I not responsible for the injury my drunken actions caused ?
Should I keep a car if I KNOW I am prone to picking uo the keys and driving it when drunk (and cant help but get drunk often)?
Even if I "manage" my problem and ensure I have no access to a personal vehicle while drunk due to fitting an inhibitor to my vehicle, should it not also be my responsibility to warn guests (while I am sober) to not leave their car keys lying around "just in case"? You can choose not to drink. If you can't then you need rehab. Problem solved What do you suggest for him, that he chooses not to sleep? Poor analogy. I suggest he doesnt let little girls stay in his house when its known hes prone to random acts of rape. The OP said 3 people testifed that hes does this that means it was known problem. As such he was negligant in allowing the girl to sleep in his house. He shouldnt have been allowed to just walk away from this.
That statement might be justified if he had previously wandered into other people's beds, but there is no indication of that... from the looks of things the previous incidents all occurred in his own bed (shared with his partner at the time)... as such, try putting your blame on the person who told her to get into his bed. She also isn't a 'little girl' shes 2 years (Aus) from being an adult, so I find it a bit strange that she willingly shared his bed anyway :S
Messed up situation
|
On July 06 2011 22:16 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 22:12 Detwiler wrote:On July 06 2011 22:08 sleepingdog wrote:On July 06 2011 21:53 ShatterStorm wrote:
Let me make an analogy,
Say I have a compulsion to drink (an alcoholic) and when I am drunk, my judgement is impared to the point where I quite happily drive my car.
If I am aware of this predeliction to DUI and then run someone over, am I not responsible for the injury my drunken actions caused ?
Should I keep a car if I KNOW I am prone to picking uo the keys and driving it when drunk (and cant help but get drunk often)?
Even if I "manage" my problem and ensure I have no access to a personal vehicle while drunk due to fitting an inhibitor to my vehicle, should it not also be my responsibility to warn guests (while I am sober) to not leave their car keys lying around "just in case"? You can choose not to drink. If you can't then you need rehab. Problem solved What do you suggest for him, that he chooses not to sleep? Poor analogy. I suggest he doesnt let little girls stay in his house when its known hes prone to random acts of rape. The OP said 3 people testifed that hes does this that means it was known problem. As such he was negligant in allowing the girl to sleep in his house. He shouldnt have been allowed to just walk away from this. I suggest you read the little white box at the top of this thread
I suggest you read my post.
I did read the OP i she shouldnt have been in the house period. Not that he allowed her or knew she was in his bed.
|
On July 06 2011 22:23 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 22:16 Linwelin wrote:On July 06 2011 22:12 Detwiler wrote:On July 06 2011 22:08 sleepingdog wrote:On July 06 2011 21:53 ShatterStorm wrote:
Let me make an analogy,
Say I have a compulsion to drink (an alcoholic) and when I am drunk, my judgement is impared to the point where I quite happily drive my car.
If I am aware of this predeliction to DUI and then run someone over, am I not responsible for the injury my drunken actions caused ?
Should I keep a car if I KNOW I am prone to picking uo the keys and driving it when drunk (and cant help but get drunk often)?
Even if I "manage" my problem and ensure I have no access to a personal vehicle while drunk due to fitting an inhibitor to my vehicle, should it not also be my responsibility to warn guests (while I am sober) to not leave their car keys lying around "just in case"? You can choose not to drink. If you can't then you need rehab. Problem solved What do you suggest for him, that he chooses not to sleep? Poor analogy. I suggest he doesnt let little girls stay in his house when its known hes prone to random acts of rape. The OP said 3 people testifed that hes does this that means it was known problem. As such he was negligant in allowing the girl to sleep in his house. He shouldnt have been allowed to just walk away from this. I suggest you read the little white box at the top of this thread I suggest you read my post. I did read the OP i she shouldnt have been in the house period. Not that he allowed her or knew she was in his bed.
The negligence that occured was from the one that told her to share his bed
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
